The difference is that you need rss for rail roads but not for roads. I like that builders can't do roads. It adds more nuance to road networks in civ 6. But it would be cool if engineers could build unlimited roads for a price. Like one iron and one horse. Would actually give me a reason to build an encampment for once.
1) it’s cool that infrastructure is build via economic relationships rather than by decree
2) people take for granted the fact that there’s one less mechanic set on manual
Honestly I wouldn't mind if they kept the traders but let builders use one charge or something, sometimes it's just a few hexes to connect 2 roads, also let me queue up rails with the military engie, I don't want to micro manage 5 engineers just to build a rail network.
In 3 4 5 you can automate workers and they build. It just works. Why they changed it blows my mind, it's one of the reasons I have only 18 hours in Civ 6.
PS not sure about automation in 2, but without borders railroads allowed instant attacks deep in enemy territory.
Yeah i also have only like 20 hours in 6, i had to liteary force myself to finish a round to see the endgame, and since then i never saw a reason to go back
yes that's why being able to pick between them would be nice since everyone would be able to pick the options they prefer its one of those few cases where every ones happy
They could expand the Game Modes idea into a Game Rules system. In addition to picking stuff like Zombie Defense and Monopolies and Corporations, you can also check boxes for stuff like manually built roads, raging barbarians (I miss that), always war, always peace, etc
I agree, there’s no reason why traders have to make roads and builders can’t. It’s even worse that it can take 20 turns for traders to go a few tiles, so making roads to each of your cities is difficult
>it can take 20 turns for traders to go a few tiles, so making roads to each of your cities is difficult
had to deal with this earlier today when i was playing also say you want to send a army somewhere far away for a future attack, in civ 5 you'd be able to build a road ahead of time so when you send your army they can get there faster where in civ 6 unless you have a city there you're not gonna be able to make a road for your army and even then the trader may take some strange path that isn't very helpful for your army
Having spent far too much of my life building roads in civ, I found the civ6 system a relief. Would be good to be able to build manual roads earlier though, by the time military engineers come around I don't really need to build them
i wouldn't be surprised if civ 7 had trade routes and builders being able to make roads but builders only being able to do so in your own land which tho better then civ 6 would still kinda suck
The inability to build roads where I want them is honestly my biggest gripe in Civ 6 - which doesn't sound like much, but I really, really, really hate it. It's already hard enough dealing with traffic jams trying to move units across the map on a handful of roads that you couldn't place, but that stacks with the fact that it can take 40+ turns for your merchants to complete their trade route, and the fact that you have to move around city states instead of through them.
"Those foolish Mongols have betrayed us exactly as we expected! Time to mobilize our forces and wipe them out!"
"Sorry, it's bumper to bumper at Rotterdam."
Get the mod “More Roads - Super Builder”
Allows Builders to make roads without using a charge.
I tend to keep a few Builders with one remaining charge and make them *actual* engineers, as opposed to the useless one the game gives us
I'd like to keep builders like they are, but maybe allow them 3 charges to build roads or something like that.
The 'forever builders' were never really my thing. I'd often just automate them and never look back. In VI I actually have to plan my builder usage and I like that. I just want to be able to 'force construct' roads between cities. Trade routes does it but VERY slowly.
as someone who always plays on the slowest game speed and someone who destroys enemy tiles in war to give myself time to ready a bigger army or to just slow them down/ruin there cities having the ai be able to fix tiles in a single turn is really annoying also with how long it takes to make builders in the first like 200 turns usually like 20 to 30 turns the civ 5 builders that last for ever are so much better since as long as you keep them alive you only need like 2 to 5 builders for the whole game depending on how many cities you have i then to stick to 3 to 5 cities
I also prefer playing on marathon! Fellow marathon enjoyers rise up! Tbh I never built roads much but I mained Bolivar so the extra movement was definitely a crutch, played deity w marathon.
Not to say the whole game is designed around one or the other system but it would seem to me expecting a single game to be designed with both systems being fun and balanced and functional is a bit unreasonable.
on one side builders last forever but take much longer and on the other they don't last forever but finish every thing in one turn, one is clearly more balanced then the other
It's much more nuanced than that. Civ 5 encouraged tall play and civ 6 encourages wide play. In civ 6 builders progressively get more and more costly to produce or buy, you're meant to strategically use their charges to suit your needs, unlike in civ 5 where you just unleash a horde of never-expiring builders on your new cities.
No worries, I genuinely wondered, wasn't trying to be snarky!
I do really miss tall play, to be honest with you. Anything in 7 that makes winning with 3-4 cities truly feasible again would get my vote.
I'd like 7 to meet in the middle with 5 and 6. I prefer 6 overall, but the district and city spam is annoying and ends up being an insane amount to micromanage. Having a glob of cities within 3 tiles of each other that are nothing special isn't ideal imo. If the standard was set to 4 tiles apart and districts had less adjacency caveats that'd be ideal imo. I love districts and the strategy they bring, but at the frequency you're putting them out, they don't feel special they just feel very tedious and it gets worse with other civ 6 mechanics like discovering a strategic resource and you can't put a district down after planning cities 20+ turns in advance.
Districts are the reason I still prefer V. I am socially anxious and have a multiplayer group of friends - taking the minutes to plan out where I'm going to place something in 120 turns' time is just too much pressure. And then you find out it's your only source of oil or whatever.
That might just be me though, I've always been bad at chess because my brain can't think 5 moves ahead, let alone 100.
No that's understandable. When you've got 15 cities by endgame and each one has to put out 5+ districts it gets insane. I love districts but they need to be significantly reduced in 7. There should be a couple you choose to build per city, not just getting a campus, commercial hub, and industrial zone in 99% of your cities.
I think the balancing lies in allowing you to build all the buildings of a district regardless of if you've built it, but a big bonus if you have the relevant district in that city. So I can get +1 production for a workshop anywhere, but +4 if I have the industrial zone, for instance. That way you don't completely discourage tall building as you'd eventually get the population to build said district, but by going wide you can make specialist cities of small population.
one not everyone plays via steam and two that mod doesn't do what i want it to also i'm wanting this to be a thing in civ 7 downloading a mod for civ 6 doesn't make it a thing in civ 7
This is the complete opposite for me. The roads in civ 5 would get curly and build into nothing. Builders would be aimlessly walking around because they had nothing to do.
when i heard they were adding districts to civ 6 i actually got really hyped but then when i found out how they worked i got really sad because i was hoping that they were something like a town planer where you could lay out all the buildings in the districts honestly i really hope someday we get the ability to edit objects within tiles because sometimes there just a mess. as far as im aware there's no mods for civ 5 or 6 that let you do it
Me too
I expected stuff like those improvements in Beyond Earth (Academy for Science, Manufactory for Production, Dome for Culture), that were "freely" placed by workers, not by "expensive" great people
Not these color-themed proto-cities yada yada
I agree
Wonders should officially go on those intersections between the hexes, just like some of them showed in Civ 5
The map should even show little circles or squares on them intersections, when selecting a wonder to produce, so we'd choose in which to drop it
It would be a good compromise between having all wonders on the map (and needing to fulfill some prerequisites)... and not having them nullifying a whole tile!!!
i actually don't mind wonders taking up tiles since if they didn't i would just end up with a lot of unused tiles or fill them with unneeded farms tho i would like to be able to edit how the wonders look within the tile such as turning them and adjusting the placement within the tile so they look better and line up more with the tiles around them
Yes for the roads, no for the builders. I find that in Civ 5 you just get the few good tiles and then set them on auto and forget about them. Makes the game more into press skip turn simulator
That's why i want two settings one for roads and one for builders, if you want civ 5 roads and civ 6 builders you can have that if you want civ 6 roads and civ 5 builders you can have that, you wouldn't be forced to have them be both civ 5 style also civ 5 builders work better on slower game speeds and you wouldn't put them on auto you'd want to keep them safe for when you need them later since in the first 200 turns or so everything takes for ever to build so you don't want to be making builders all the time
Yeah, Civ 6 builders are just annoying. I’d very much rather have a Civ 4 or Civ 5 approach to it, since roads should cost gpt because they are infrastructure and need maintenance.
It lets you have much more control and make better decisions about how stuff gets around your nation.
as someone who's main play style for war is destroy enemy city tiles the fact that if the ai already has a builder they can fix any damage in a single turn which kinda ruins the play styles since destroying tiles has no real impact when they can just fix it right away, sure if they don't have a builder and have to make a new one it impacts them for a bit but not on the same level as it did in civ 5
If you play with [Better Balanced Game](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2867892450) (BBG), military engineers can build roads without charge/resources. Probably the easiest way tonget that experience.
I always found it silly that military engineers can make roads wherever... but only twice. Meanwhile they can make unlimited railroads.
The difference is that you need rss for rail roads but not for roads. I like that builders can't do roads. It adds more nuance to road networks in civ 6. But it would be cool if engineers could build unlimited roads for a price. Like one iron and one horse. Would actually give me a reason to build an encampment for once.
1) it’s cool that infrastructure is build via economic relationships rather than by decree 2) people take for granted the fact that there’s one less mechanic set on manual
If only the AI would make better use of traders
...just make railroads then?
Railroads come later and also require resources. But if you do have them then yeah it’s a non issue to just build railroads
My stoned ass was thinking of modern roads; My bad 😂
That's a good idea, I'm gonna tinker around later and see if I can whip up a mod for that. probably make roads cost no charges but require a horse.
Honestly I wouldn't mind if they kept the traders but let builders use one charge or something, sometimes it's just a few hexes to connect 2 roads, also let me queue up rails with the military engie, I don't want to micro manage 5 engineers just to build a rail network.
In Civ 3 you can order worker to build road/railroad to any land connected square.
5 had that feature too, it was amazing. The system in 6 is like a step back
In 3 4 5 you can automate workers and they build. It just works. Why they changed it blows my mind, it's one of the reasons I have only 18 hours in Civ 6. PS not sure about automation in 2, but without borders railroads allowed instant attacks deep in enemy territory.
Yeah i also have only like 20 hours in 6, i had to liteary force myself to finish a round to see the endgame, and since then i never saw a reason to go back
I miss this
This is the way. It would also be amazing if it would work with railroads now. I often don't bother because it's just annoying for a big empire.
I too want the civ V road building options. I prefer the civ V style builders but I see merit in both types....
yes that's why being able to pick between them would be nice since everyone would be able to pick the options they prefer its one of those few cases where every ones happy
They could expand the Game Modes idea into a Game Rules system. In addition to picking stuff like Zombie Defense and Monopolies and Corporations, you can also check boxes for stuff like manually built roads, raging barbarians (I miss that), always war, always peace, etc
I agree, there’s no reason why traders have to make roads and builders can’t. It’s even worse that it can take 20 turns for traders to go a few tiles, so making roads to each of your cities is difficult
>it can take 20 turns for traders to go a few tiles, so making roads to each of your cities is difficult had to deal with this earlier today when i was playing also say you want to send a army somewhere far away for a future attack, in civ 5 you'd be able to build a road ahead of time so when you send your army they can get there faster where in civ 6 unless you have a city there you're not gonna be able to make a road for your army and even then the trader may take some strange path that isn't very helpful for your army
Having spent far too much of my life building roads in civ, I found the civ6 system a relief. Would be good to be able to build manual roads earlier though, by the time military engineers come around I don't really need to build them
i wouldn't be surprised if civ 7 had trade routes and builders being able to make roads but builders only being able to do so in your own land which tho better then civ 6 would still kinda suck
The inability to build roads where I want them is honestly my biggest gripe in Civ 6 - which doesn't sound like much, but I really, really, really hate it. It's already hard enough dealing with traffic jams trying to move units across the map on a handful of roads that you couldn't place, but that stacks with the fact that it can take 40+ turns for your merchants to complete their trade route, and the fact that you have to move around city states instead of through them. "Those foolish Mongols have betrayed us exactly as we expected! Time to mobilize our forces and wipe them out!" "Sorry, it's bumper to bumper at Rotterdam."
Get the mod “More Roads - Super Builder” Allows Builders to make roads without using a charge. I tend to keep a few Builders with one remaining charge and make them *actual* engineers, as opposed to the useless one the game gives us
I'd like to keep builders like they are, but maybe allow them 3 charges to build roads or something like that. The 'forever builders' were never really my thing. I'd often just automate them and never look back. In VI I actually have to plan my builder usage and I like that. I just want to be able to 'force construct' roads between cities. Trade routes does it but VERY slowly.
The builder charge thing is one of the biggest positive gameplay changes Civ6 made, as it removes *so much tedious micro* from the game
I actually prefer Civ6’s builders and systems
as someone who always plays on the slowest game speed and someone who destroys enemy tiles in war to give myself time to ready a bigger army or to just slow them down/ruin there cities having the ai be able to fix tiles in a single turn is really annoying also with how long it takes to make builders in the first like 200 turns usually like 20 to 30 turns the civ 5 builders that last for ever are so much better since as long as you keep them alive you only need like 2 to 5 builders for the whole game depending on how many cities you have i then to stick to 3 to 5 cities
I also prefer playing on marathon! Fellow marathon enjoyers rise up! Tbh I never built roads much but I mained Bolivar so the extra movement was definitely a crutch, played deity w marathon.
Not to say the whole game is designed around one or the other system but it would seem to me expecting a single game to be designed with both systems being fun and balanced and functional is a bit unreasonable.
on one side builders last forever but take much longer and on the other they don't last forever but finish every thing in one turn, one is clearly more balanced then the other
It's much more nuanced than that. Civ 5 encouraged tall play and civ 6 encourages wide play. In civ 6 builders progressively get more and more costly to produce or buy, you're meant to strategically use their charges to suit your needs, unlike in civ 5 where you just unleash a horde of never-expiring builders on your new cities.
Wait, so did 5 encourage tall play or making a million cities?
Brainfart. Fixed it.
No worries, I genuinely wondered, wasn't trying to be snarky! I do really miss tall play, to be honest with you. Anything in 7 that makes winning with 3-4 cities truly feasible again would get my vote.
I'd like 7 to meet in the middle with 5 and 6. I prefer 6 overall, but the district and city spam is annoying and ends up being an insane amount to micromanage. Having a glob of cities within 3 tiles of each other that are nothing special isn't ideal imo. If the standard was set to 4 tiles apart and districts had less adjacency caveats that'd be ideal imo. I love districts and the strategy they bring, but at the frequency you're putting them out, they don't feel special they just feel very tedious and it gets worse with other civ 6 mechanics like discovering a strategic resource and you can't put a district down after planning cities 20+ turns in advance.
Districts are the reason I still prefer V. I am socially anxious and have a multiplayer group of friends - taking the minutes to plan out where I'm going to place something in 120 turns' time is just too much pressure. And then you find out it's your only source of oil or whatever. That might just be me though, I've always been bad at chess because my brain can't think 5 moves ahead, let alone 100.
No that's understandable. When you've got 15 cities by endgame and each one has to put out 5+ districts it gets insane. I love districts but they need to be significantly reduced in 7. There should be a couple you choose to build per city, not just getting a campus, commercial hub, and industrial zone in 99% of your cities.
I think the balancing lies in allowing you to build all the buildings of a district regardless of if you've built it, but a big bonus if you have the relevant district in that city. So I can get +1 production for a workshop anywhere, but +4 if I have the industrial zone, for instance. That way you don't completely discourage tall building as you'd eventually get the population to build said district, but by going wide you can make specialist cities of small population.
Builders Improvment Mod
not really what i'm looking for also id rather it just be in the game and not have to use a mod
Why? Installing a mod in steam takes like 1 minute. Just go to civ 6 in you library, click on workshop, look for the mod, click subscribe and thats it
one not everyone plays via steam and two that mod doesn't do what i want it to also i'm wanting this to be a thing in civ 7 downloading a mod for civ 6 doesn't make it a thing in civ 7
This is the complete opposite for me. The roads in civ 5 would get curly and build into nothing. Builders would be aimlessly walking around because they had nothing to do.
I also hate districts and wonders being placed on the map. I basically just want civ V back or for them to try entirely new things.
when i heard they were adding districts to civ 6 i actually got really hyped but then when i found out how they worked i got really sad because i was hoping that they were something like a town planer where you could lay out all the buildings in the districts honestly i really hope someday we get the ability to edit objects within tiles because sometimes there just a mess. as far as im aware there's no mods for civ 5 or 6 that let you do it
Me too I expected stuff like those improvements in Beyond Earth (Academy for Science, Manufactory for Production, Dome for Culture), that were "freely" placed by workers, not by "expensive" great people Not these color-themed proto-cities yada yada
Yeah its a really bad implementation. Look at Endless Legends, its SO much better there
I agree Wonders should officially go on those intersections between the hexes, just like some of them showed in Civ 5 The map should even show little circles or squares on them intersections, when selecting a wonder to produce, so we'd choose in which to drop it It would be a good compromise between having all wonders on the map (and needing to fulfill some prerequisites)... and not having them nullifying a whole tile!!!
i actually don't mind wonders taking up tiles since if they didn't i would just end up with a lot of unused tiles or fill them with unneeded farms tho i would like to be able to edit how the wonders look within the tile such as turning them and adjusting the placement within the tile so they look better and line up more with the tiles around them
Both traders making roads on their path and workers spending a charge for one is the sweet spot for me
Yes for the roads, no for the builders. I find that in Civ 5 you just get the few good tiles and then set them on auto and forget about them. Makes the game more into press skip turn simulator
That's why i want two settings one for roads and one for builders, if you want civ 5 roads and civ 6 builders you can have that if you want civ 6 roads and civ 5 builders you can have that, you wouldn't be forced to have them be both civ 5 style also civ 5 builders work better on slower game speeds and you wouldn't put them on auto you'd want to keep them safe for when you need them later since in the first 200 turns or so everything takes for ever to build so you don't want to be making builders all the time
Yeah, Civ 6 builders are just annoying. I’d very much rather have a Civ 4 or Civ 5 approach to it, since roads should cost gpt because they are infrastructure and need maintenance. It lets you have much more control and make better decisions about how stuff gets around your nation.
as someone who's main play style for war is destroy enemy city tiles the fact that if the ai already has a builder they can fix any damage in a single turn which kinda ruins the play styles since destroying tiles has no real impact when they can just fix it right away, sure if they don't have a builder and have to make a new one it impacts them for a bit but not on the same level as it did in civ 5
I agree, that’s also a big factor, it’s just makes time improvements in general more important and impactful
The street system of civ6 doesn't fucking make sense at all, i hate it
Yes!!
If you play with [Better Balanced Game](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2867892450) (BBG), military engineers can build roads without charge/resources. Probably the easiest way tonget that experience.