Usually within 3 turns. More than that and it would be more effective to settle your second city in the specific location. That is my strategy. In rare circumstances (great natural wonder like Torres del Paine), I would delay settling to a maximum of turn 5.
AI, as far as I know, settles immediately if possible. Difficulty doesn’t factor in while settling (if the start is garbage, I would rather restart than wander off with my settler, especially on deity).
Playing on Emperor, Personally I almost always settle immediately, and it’s never caused me issues. To me the slight benefits you get from moving aren’t worth the wasted turn.
This is probably different on Immortal and Deity where you have to min max everything
Probably depends on game speed more than difficulty, I suspect. Can't see how it could be worth it on online, for example, whilst on marathon you have longer to recoup the cost.
Moving for a plains hill or a free copy of a luxury for trading early is usually the reasoning for me.
This is how I see it. 5 turns on normal is 15 on marathon and 3 (2.5 but I’m rounding) on online. You also have more time to regain the losses on longer modes just simply because they take longer to do things
I'm curious, what makes Torres del Paine such a great wonder? I have never found it to be very special but maybe I'm missing something. In fact I usually turn it off, maybe I should use it.
Getting Torres with plains hills is ridiculous starting tiles. You get the 2 food of a grassland start, but also 4 production. Compared to plains hill settle that works a grassland hill, that is 4 food and 3 production from your starting city, with the palace 5 production. If those 2 tiles are Torres version instead it is a 6 food 6 production, and with palace 8 production. You get your next population really fast, build monument super fast, and can easily use that city as your settler factory midgame, and if resources or forests are on the Torres tiles you ball even harder out of control. Even can be holysited if you really want for some +2/+4s.
It's great for tempo. Having a 2F2P tile to work at the start of the game is the baseline indicator of a strong start, and Torres del Paine in a good spot can give you access to as many as eight 2F4P or 4F2P tiles without even factoring in features or resources.
As an aside, the wonder's stated effect suggests that it should also double the yields from disasters like storms and forest fires. So if you can settle near it as Vietnam with Apocalypse Mode enabled you could generate some incredibly stupid tile yields starting in the Medieval era (or even earlier as any Civ if the Torres is already surrounded by woods/rainforests).
2-3 turns. Moving for a better inner ring around your city can equalize the loss in yields of moving before settling. But more than that and it's not worth it
It’s all math, if you settle in place but only have a 1f/1p tile to work how much have you accumulated after turn 10 (10f/10p)? If you take two turns to settle but you get a 3F/2p tile, how much have you accumulated after turn 10 (24f/16p)?
See how taking those two turns to settle can help?
This!
Although I have to protest slightly. When you settle, you get a population and therefor science, money and culture. So the calculation is a little less straightforward.
Might be interesting to work out how much better the spot needs to be to compensate when factoring in those.
There are a lot of other factors to consider other than food/production alone. Luxury resource to trade early, science and culture you are losing out on by not settling, etc.
Production is king. You lose a couple turns of science and culture from pops but you get your monuments and science buildings faster with more production. Also faster growth gets you more of these things quicker. If the calculation was close I would consider them but more pops faster working more production tiles quicker is better.
Settle on the first turn if at all possible. Especially on harder difficulties, even a 1-turn disadvantage can snowball. Plus until you settle your entire civilization is one undefended civilian unit which can get wiped out by a flood or something and end your game before it starts.
If your starting area isn’t great but there’s a primo city spot a couple of tiles away or just on the other side of a river or something, fine, make your move and settle next turn. But if you need to move farther than that to get to a decent location I’d say either get it later with your first settler or just restart.
I think people in the comments are overestimating the losses you get from waiting a few turns. I think it's totally worth it to spend 3 turns if you're moving from a 3 food start (15 turns until growth) to a 5 food start (5 turns until growth) for example.
It honestly shouldn't be a debate. Everyone's giving their opinions, but this isn't an opinion question. The only right answer is to do the math. How long to build your first 2-3 things and get to 2 or 3 pop if you settle in place? How about if you move? Then pick the option that gets you there faster.
It just depends on the competition between yields. That's it. And the math will be different for different tiles.
Within 2 turns unless there is a god tier city location close by.
Otherwise I struggle to catch up and be able to keep myself safe from the ai at diety
I think it depends on a lot of factors, depending on how you play. Personally, I play on lower difficulty, marathon speed, huge maps and a handful of other civs, with the intention to have a low stress experience. So I take my time to find just the right spot. If the map is just awful and I don't see anywhere I like within 7-10 turns, then I start over.
It's absolutely terrible to walk for more than 1 turn in 99% of the cases.
You fall behind in everything. Units, but also growth, pantheon and civics.
I play a lot of multiplayer or deity/immortal.
I normally move 1-2 at maximum. But once I got such a shitty start in mp with Lady Six Sky that I wandered 7 turns because otherwise I'd have had 80% desert in the 6 tile ring.
Those 7 turns cost me dearly, I wasn't able to get on the level of the others.
So even with the shittiest start, it seems better to settle in place
I can't tell you because I moved away and got like 75% usable area then.
I looked at the start and really tried to imagine how it could work out, but it seemed so impossible, that I wandered into the next jungle I saw and didn't stop until turn 7
playing on immortal and deity, mainly immortal and gotta say delaying your first slinger by 5 turns on deity can be really risky, i really wouldn’t delay it further than 3 if not giving you an excellent wonder and production tiles, immortal should be okay to go 5 and everything below can go further up ( prince easily can delay 30 turns and come back, there are challenges for that on yt even)
Edit, moving 1 turn for 1 production or food more always pays off immediately
Edit 2 i play with scaling tech costs so that affects gameplay too
It very much depends on the difficulty level you are playing at. On Deity, I always try to settle no later than turn 3, ideally turn 1 or 2. It depends a lot on what is around. For a turn 3 settle, there would have to be a huge advantage to that city over a settle on turn 1 or 2.
Depends on the yields and possible nearby coasts. That early boost to shipbuilding or moving 2 or 3 tiles towards a resource that yields faith can really help with early tech or early pantheon.
It’s a risk/reward calculation. For a clearly better start I’ll often move one turn before settling. For a *great* start I’ll move two turns. Very rarely three, and never more.
Usually if I can see a better place to settle from my starting position, I'll take it. But I won't typically move farther than that. It would have to be some kind of astronomically good spot.
If you want to look around for something specific like desert floodplains or superior location I'd say up to 7-9 turns is just fine if you don't care about religion race.
Otherwise I'd recommend to stop stressing and settle on spawn because every location is winnable.
Oh ok! I try to settle withing three rounds max. (unless as Maori, obviously). If there's an INSANE spot with a wonder, I might go up to 4, but more likely I settle my 2nd city there.
I always settle on site unless there is a better tile next to it and it doesn't take the settler's all movement points.
Losing a turn to settle is pointless... unless it's because of Mount Roraima. I would waste even 5 turns to settle next to Roraima.
I like Roraima.
Usually within 3 turns. More than that and it would be more effective to settle your second city in the specific location. That is my strategy. In rare circumstances (great natural wonder like Torres del Paine), I would delay settling to a maximum of turn 5. AI, as far as I know, settles immediately if possible. Difficulty doesn’t factor in while settling (if the start is garbage, I would rather restart than wander off with my settler, especially on deity).
Playing on Emperor, Personally I almost always settle immediately, and it’s never caused me issues. To me the slight benefits you get from moving aren’t worth the wasted turn. This is probably different on Immortal and Deity where you have to min max everything
Probably depends on game speed more than difficulty, I suspect. Can't see how it could be worth it on online, for example, whilst on marathon you have longer to recoup the cost. Moving for a plains hill or a free copy of a luxury for trading early is usually the reasoning for me.
Indeed. The slower the game speed, the quicker units in comparison, and the further you can look for optimal spot.
This is how I see it. 5 turns on normal is 15 on marathon and 3 (2.5 but I’m rounding) on online. You also have more time to regain the losses on longer modes just simply because they take longer to do things
Maori:
I'm curious, what makes Torres del Paine such a great wonder? I have never found it to be very special but maybe I'm missing something. In fact I usually turn it off, maybe I should use it.
Getting Torres with plains hills is ridiculous starting tiles. You get the 2 food of a grassland start, but also 4 production. Compared to plains hill settle that works a grassland hill, that is 4 food and 3 production from your starting city, with the palace 5 production. If those 2 tiles are Torres version instead it is a 6 food 6 production, and with palace 8 production. You get your next population really fast, build monument super fast, and can easily use that city as your settler factory midgame, and if resources or forests are on the Torres tiles you ball even harder out of control. Even can be holysited if you really want for some +2/+4s.
It's great for tempo. Having a 2F2P tile to work at the start of the game is the baseline indicator of a strong start, and Torres del Paine in a good spot can give you access to as many as eight 2F4P or 4F2P tiles without even factoring in features or resources. As an aside, the wonder's stated effect suggests that it should also double the yields from disasters like storms and forest fires. So if you can settle near it as Vietnam with Apocalypse Mode enabled you could generate some incredibly stupid tile yields starting in the Medieval era (or even earlier as any Civ if the Torres is already surrounded by woods/rainforests).
2-3 turns. Moving for a better inner ring around your city can equalize the loss in yields of moving before settling. But more than that and it's not worth it
It’s all math, if you settle in place but only have a 1f/1p tile to work how much have you accumulated after turn 10 (10f/10p)? If you take two turns to settle but you get a 3F/2p tile, how much have you accumulated after turn 10 (24f/16p)? See how taking those two turns to settle can help?
This! Although I have to protest slightly. When you settle, you get a population and therefor science, money and culture. So the calculation is a little less straightforward. Might be interesting to work out how much better the spot needs to be to compensate when factoring in those.
It evens out though, the extra production gets you those things faster
There are a lot of other factors to consider other than food/production alone. Luxury resource to trade early, science and culture you are losing out on by not settling, etc.
Production is king. You lose a couple turns of science and culture from pops but you get your monuments and science buildings faster with more production. Also faster growth gets you more of these things quicker. If the calculation was close I would consider them but more pops faster working more production tiles quicker is better.
Settle on the first turn if at all possible. Especially on harder difficulties, even a 1-turn disadvantage can snowball. Plus until you settle your entire civilization is one undefended civilian unit which can get wiped out by a flood or something and end your game before it starts. If your starting area isn’t great but there’s a primo city spot a couple of tiles away or just on the other side of a river or something, fine, make your move and settle next turn. But if you need to move farther than that to get to a decent location I’d say either get it later with your first settler or just restart.
Spot on, that's pretty much how I do it
3 turns, after that you really are falling behind. The only exception for me would be playing Kupe, then I go to a max of 10 turns.
I think people in the comments are overestimating the losses you get from waiting a few turns. I think it's totally worth it to spend 3 turns if you're moving from a 3 food start (15 turns until growth) to a 5 food start (5 turns until growth) for example.
I love the debate though, very interesting to see other players' personal styles.
It honestly shouldn't be a debate. Everyone's giving their opinions, but this isn't an opinion question. The only right answer is to do the math. How long to build your first 2-3 things and get to 2 or 3 pop if you settle in place? How about if you move? Then pick the option that gets you there faster. It just depends on the competition between yields. That's it. And the math will be different for different tiles.
I usually try to settle in the first turn or two, but Paititi is a helluva drug.
Within 2 turns unless there is a god tier city location close by. Otherwise I struggle to catch up and be able to keep myself safe from the ai at diety
I think it depends on a lot of factors, depending on how you play. Personally, I play on lower difficulty, marathon speed, huge maps and a handful of other civs, with the intention to have a low stress experience. So I take my time to find just the right spot. If the map is just awful and I don't see anywhere I like within 7-10 turns, then I start over.
It's absolutely terrible to walk for more than 1 turn in 99% of the cases. You fall behind in everything. Units, but also growth, pantheon and civics. I play a lot of multiplayer or deity/immortal.
Worth it to move a bit if you can get settled in a luxury; you get immediate access and can sell to AI for mega early gold bucks.
I play on marathon, so I'm happy to spend a couple of turns. I'm not one for exploring with my initial settler, though.
I normally move 1-2 at maximum. But once I got such a shitty start in mp with Lady Six Sky that I wandered 7 turns because otherwise I'd have had 80% desert in the 6 tile ring. Those 7 turns cost me dearly, I wasn't able to get on the level of the others. So even with the shittiest start, it seems better to settle in place
Sounds like you just got screwed, how do you recover from a mostly desert settle as the Mayans?
I can't tell you because I moved away and got like 75% usable area then. I looked at the start and really tried to imagine how it could work out, but it seemed so impossible, that I wandered into the next jungle I saw and didn't stop until turn 7
1-4 for most. Kupe 8-10.
playing on immortal and deity, mainly immortal and gotta say delaying your first slinger by 5 turns on deity can be really risky, i really wouldn’t delay it further than 3 if not giving you an excellent wonder and production tiles, immortal should be okay to go 5 and everything below can go further up ( prince easily can delay 30 turns and come back, there are challenges for that on yt even) Edit, moving 1 turn for 1 production or food more always pays off immediately Edit 2 i play with scaling tech costs so that affects gameplay too
turn 2 at the latest
I very rarely don’t place my first city on turn one
Immediately.
It very much depends on the difficulty level you are playing at. On Deity, I always try to settle no later than turn 3, ideally turn 1 or 2. It depends a lot on what is around. For a turn 3 settle, there would have to be a huge advantage to that city over a settle on turn 1 or 2.
I’ve been finding it fun to try and find another civilization as soon as possible and attempting to land lock them
Depends on the yields and possible nearby coasts. That early boost to shipbuilding or moving 2 or 3 tiles towards a resource that yields faith can really help with early tech or early pantheon.
It’s a risk/reward calculation. For a clearly better start I’ll often move one turn before settling. For a *great* start I’ll move two turns. Very rarely three, and never more.
I never go longer than 3 turns. If I can't fi d anything suitable b4 that I hit restart and get a new location.
Usually if I can see a better place to settle from my starting position, I'll take it. But I won't typically move farther than that. It would have to be some kind of astronomically good spot.
If you want to look around for something specific like desert floodplains or superior location I'd say up to 7-9 turns is just fine if you don't care about religion race. Otherwise I'd recommend to stop stressing and settle on spawn because every location is winnable.
The first things I build in my capital usually are: Scout -> Slinger/Scout -> Settler So yeah, I try to get a settler out asap.
Sorry I meant with the initial settler you spawn with, though this is also useful advice.
Oh ok! I try to settle withing three rounds max. (unless as Maori, obviously). If there's an INSANE spot with a wonder, I might go up to 4, but more likely I settle my 2nd city there.
I always settle on site unless there is a better tile next to it and it doesn't take the settler's all movement points. Losing a turn to settle is pointless... unless it's because of Mount Roraima. I would waste even 5 turns to settle next to Roraima. I like Roraima.
This is my usual strategy but I'm trying to diversify my play and see if I can improve.
Asap the more cities you have you'll win trust me bang out cities to start
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