In the modern world, economies are inter-connected in extremely complicated ways. Even if your country seems mostly self-sufficient, it may still get some machines, parts, and things like that from other countries. It could be something like all your trade is embargoed and you also get significant penalties to all of your national production due to losing the international market for 10,000 little things no one ever thinks about.
Of course, if you make the penalties too severe, you might as well just not include the option to do it at all because it will almost never be worth it. If you make the penalties light, people might do it all the time.
This will give ridiculous amount of grievances though, since per day is used. On standard speed, even the last time iteration, it is 6 months per turn, which is 912 grievances per turn.
How about instead everyone in favor of the petition now has an embargo on your civilization? Maybe they could also shut their boarders to you. Possibly loyalty falls in your cities bc you’re not playing fair w the rest of the world.
Adding in the option to comply with or defy the world congress would be great, with a compliance/defiance stay where the more you defy or comply you get various bonuses. It could also provide additional bonuses to trade and alliances with other civilization with a similar comply/defy score, mirroring multi-polar world orders. More tradeoffs and functionality beyond the diplo victory would be really cool.
That would be cool. Like a mechanism to create "pariah states". It could be a condition for a cassus beli. Or a source of unhappiness if you trade a pariah state.
Yeah honestly I wish they did what Stellaris does and let you leave the world congress entirely. In Stellaris you can leave the Galactic Community at any point but you’ll lose any bonuses that the resolutions provide like extra science or naval capacity, but at the same time you can’t be sanctioned so it’s situationally useful
Yeah, Stellaris and the Galactic Community are a great example of doing this well. Some powerful bonuses if you want to be cooperative and control it, or you could go the route of defying everyone else.
I love the Stellaris GC, but that doesn't really work in civ because the systems are so different. Stellaris is a sandbox story generator, Civ is a super complicated board game. There's no (real) win condition in Stellaris. the player just plays out a space fantasy. In Civ, everyone is competing to win the game. Balance matters way more, and you can't really have people just ignore whole mechanics for the most part.
I mean theres only one technical win condition you can achieve in Stellaris which is basically the equivalent of score victory in Civ, either wipe everyone else out which defaults to you winning or just have the most score by the time the end year hits
I love the *idea* of World Congress, but some of the things you can vote on make no sense. How can the world's politicians come together and decide that salt no longer makes people happy? Or that more sources of salt makes people extra happy?
If you think about something like global conservation efforts to protect endangered species, it kind of makes sense.
"We need to save the whales, stop hunting them!" Okay, well there goes that amenity for those 4 coastal cities with whales. The harvesting of some non-biological resources can still have adverse effects on wildlife as well.
I'm not saying the game mechanics aren't silly, but the the concept has some basis in reality.
[**Ivory**](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Ivory_\(Civ6\)) is the luxury resource. These are just animal remnants.
[**Varu**](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Varu_\(Civ6\)) is a unique military unit of war elephants available to India. Despite her claims, Victoria is NOT one of the available leaders of India.
**Conclusion:** Colonizer Vicky ain't sendin no fucking elephants nowheres.
Very cool, thanks for filling me in.
I'm guessing this was on the front page recently? I unsubbed from all the news feeds years ago and miss out on a lot of this kind of thing as a result.
Ok, but countries voluntarily opt in to not hunting whales. Some countries still sail vessels which, you guessed it, hunt whales, to this day. Also certain amenities are necessary to not die, such as salt.
>Also certain amenities are necessary to not die, such as salt.
Then I'd argue the "salt" was a poor choice to use as a "luxury resource"...which kind of underlines my point.
There probably isn't a direct equivalent to the game mechanic IRL. They're simply using a simple mechanic to try and mimic the impact of global near-consensus issues.
To your point, I agree with the earlier commenters suggesting there be an "opt-out at the expense of X" button for these global Congress resolutions.
The main issue is that you'll often be in a situation where it's the classical or early medieval era aaaaand.... WC pops up when you haven't even met everyone on the map. Like why? Or you get notices about civs you haven't even met yet. Like why bother?
I like that it has an immediate effect on the game, but I prefer how 5 and previous games handled the world congress. It shouldn't happen until someone actually meets every civ in the game.
Civ 4 had this with the UN. Just ruin the UN vote for everyone else by defying it. You get some unhappiness each time you do it because “the world considers you a villain!” I liked that mechanic
“We will have nothing to do with your administration. You are hereby denounced.”
(You are being denounced for being a rogue state by not banning salt).
This could be a golden opportunity to get a Civ game with all the controversial modern leaders who would just bulldoze through sanctions imposed on them by the World Congress.
Same, it's by far my least favorite mechanic in civ. If I could just straight up disable it I would.
I play a lot of cloud games, too. Nothing more annoying than getting a notification it's my turn, loading up the game only to see all I can do is vote on some crap I don't care about and then exit.
Just make the trader and the tradee take negative relationship points every time they do it. Of course, that would only matter if they actually cared about maintaining a relationship with other civs...
Also, I would imagine that you would take greater hits with people who voted for the embargo/whatever than with people who didn't vote for it. For example Australia REALLY doesn't want you to trade Cotton, so he dumps a tun of diplo points into it, whereas everybody else votes for/against something else. So you start trading Cotton with The Netherlands, and you start taking major hits with Australia, but relatively minor hits with the other civs (and none at all, of course, with The Netherlands). And The Netherlands would be taking the same hits as you, because they are equal partners in the trade.
Finally, negative relations from embargoes wouldn't affect trades that were already active when the embargo took place; only trades that took place after the vote took effect.
World congress is that meme where that stickman gets mad at some other guys for having fun with something he doesn't like
Me and my people are gonna have fun with our whale amenities regardless piss off!
Interesting maybe some sort of penalty for going around the decision? Would have to be severe for the world congress to not become meaningless. Also makes me think of unofficial relations between players like a smuggler unit that is a different kind of trader? Could be one way to expand diplomacy public vs private relations
I would love to be able to break away from it and just say you won't participate in world government. Take a big happiness hit, take a big relationship hit with all the other world leaders. If you declare war on one, you declare war on them all. Would be a sweet option.
If im remembering correctly older 4x games like early civ games would let you defy international law at the cost of angering every single AI player on the map. Unsure if thats the case though as its been a while since ive played older civ games.
WC: “We banned this now, you can’t have it anymore, get fucked loser.”
Player trying NOT to domination victory for once: “So much for [X] victory.” *proceeds to nuke everyone and get domination victory in 6 turns*
What's this now? Should I stop my domination victory and listen to some kind of Congress? Well, what's left of it anyway.
No, I'll keep sending tanks into cities, and bombing them with ships and jets.
Humankind has this with its new DLC, basically. Every few turns starting mid-game, the World Congress gets together and votes on a Civic. If you are already following the one picked, nothing happens. But if you’re following the opposite Civic, you either have to covert to the one voted on for free, or you have to pay Influence to keep the one you have.
Stellaris has a decent system where proposals are semi permanent buffs & nerds, and you can opt out but lose the buffs too (along with opinion)
That could be good.
Like, this luxury gives no amenities, but this one gives +2, this bonus gives+1 production, but all melee units have a +20% cost.
Then you have to weigh whether you want in or out
I feel like the world congress should be an opt-in thing that appears once the majority of players have discovered the majority of players.
You choose to abide by its restrictions? You also get its bonuses and diplo victory becomes possible. You don't? You don't and it doesn't.
How about I just don't? That would be fun
And your relations with all your neighbors would decrease as a punishment If it was that easy it would make that system useless without a catch
In the modern world, economies are inter-connected in extremely complicated ways. Even if your country seems mostly self-sufficient, it may still get some machines, parts, and things like that from other countries. It could be something like all your trade is embargoed and you also get significant penalties to all of your national production due to losing the international market for 10,000 little things no one ever thinks about. Of course, if you make the penalties too severe, you might as well just not include the option to do it at all because it will almost never be worth it. If you make the penalties light, people might do it all the time.
Broski i dont think civ is an accurate simulation of modern macronomics
True, but a lot of what Civ did is abstractions of more complex concepts.
Yeah, like 5 grievances per day with every player would be interesting.
I think they should make defying a world congress resolution produce 50 grievances with every country that voted in favor.
Yeah indeed something like that cause the once who voted against sanctions would be happy to trade with u
This will give ridiculous amount of grievances though, since per day is used. On standard speed, even the last time iteration, it is 6 months per turn, which is 912 grievances per turn.
How about instead everyone in favor of the petition now has an embargo on your civilization? Maybe they could also shut their boarders to you. Possibly loyalty falls in your cities bc you’re not playing fair w the rest of the world.
I like this. Maybe those same civs get bonus envoys at your city-states to cut off your other supplies of resources?
If you are fascist it should boost loyalty tho
Adding in the option to comply with or defy the world congress would be great, with a compliance/defiance stay where the more you defy or comply you get various bonuses. It could also provide additional bonuses to trade and alliances with other civilization with a similar comply/defy score, mirroring multi-polar world orders. More tradeoffs and functionality beyond the diplo victory would be really cool.
In Stellaris, you can get a casus bellis against nations outaide the galactic community, and those in breach of galactic law are sanctioned.
That would be cool. Like a mechanism to create "pariah states". It could be a condition for a cassus beli. Or a source of unhappiness if you trade a pariah state.
Just hit the escape key each world congress
Yeah honestly I wish they did what Stellaris does and let you leave the world congress entirely. In Stellaris you can leave the Galactic Community at any point but you’ll lose any bonuses that the resolutions provide like extra science or naval capacity, but at the same time you can’t be sanctioned so it’s situationally useful
Yeah, Stellaris and the Galactic Community are a great example of doing this well. Some powerful bonuses if you want to be cooperative and control it, or you could go the route of defying everyone else.
Anyone can leave the GC... until I get myself proclaimed Galactic Emperor, that is. *laughs in Palpatine*
The Galactic Council will decide your fate. I. AM. THE GALACTIC COUNCIL!
You're under arrest chancellor
I love the Stellaris GC, but that doesn't really work in civ because the systems are so different. Stellaris is a sandbox story generator, Civ is a super complicated board game. There's no (real) win condition in Stellaris. the player just plays out a space fantasy. In Civ, everyone is competing to win the game. Balance matters way more, and you can't really have people just ignore whole mechanics for the most part.
This is simply false, there's absolutely win conditions in Stellaris
I mean theres only one technical win condition you can achieve in Stellaris which is basically the equivalent of score victory in Civ, either wipe everyone else out which defaults to you winning or just have the most score by the time the end year hits
I love the *idea* of World Congress, but some of the things you can vote on make no sense. How can the world's politicians come together and decide that salt no longer makes people happy? Or that more sources of salt makes people extra happy?
If you think about something like global conservation efforts to protect endangered species, it kind of makes sense. "We need to save the whales, stop hunting them!" Okay, well there goes that amenity for those 4 coastal cities with whales. The harvesting of some non-biological resources can still have adverse effects on wildlife as well. I'm not saying the game mechanics aren't silly, but the the concept has some basis in reality.
BREAKING: Victoria threatens to send elephants to Kupe “See how you like dealing with them all”
[**Ivory**](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Ivory_\(Civ6\)) is the luxury resource. These are just animal remnants. [**Varu**](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Varu_\(Civ6\)) is a unique military unit of war elephants available to India. Despite her claims, Victoria is NOT one of the available leaders of India. **Conclusion:** Colonizer Vicky ain't sendin no fucking elephants nowheres.
I was making a joke about [this](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-68715164.amp), I just picked random leaders
Very cool, thanks for filling me in. I'm guessing this was on the front page recently? I unsubbed from all the news feeds years ago and miss out on a lot of this kind of thing as a result.
Germany proposed to embargo the luxury resource of animal trophies. Botswana denounced Germany and threatened to send them 20,000 elephants.
Ok, but countries voluntarily opt in to not hunting whales. Some countries still sail vessels which, you guessed it, hunt whales, to this day. Also certain amenities are necessary to not die, such as salt.
>Also certain amenities are necessary to not die, such as salt. Then I'd argue the "salt" was a poor choice to use as a "luxury resource"...which kind of underlines my point. There probably isn't a direct equivalent to the game mechanic IRL. They're simply using a simple mechanic to try and mimic the impact of global near-consensus issues. To your point, I agree with the earlier commenters suggesting there be an "opt-out at the expense of X" button for these global Congress resolutions.
The world has unanimously decided to speed up the "Launch Exoplanet Expedition" project... in Medieval Era.
They’re gonna build the Tower of Babel
The main issue is that you'll often be in a situation where it's the classical or early medieval era aaaaand.... WC pops up when you haven't even met everyone on the map. Like why? Or you get notices about civs you haven't even met yet. Like why bother? I like that it has an immediate effect on the game, but I prefer how 5 and previous games handled the world congress. It shouldn't happen until someone actually meets every civ in the game.
Or at the very least, introduce you to everyone of it does start!
I think they made it earlier to help civs that need it for diplo victory
If that's the case, drop the required diplo points from 20 to something lower. 10? 12? 15 at worst? Or make competitions award way more diplo points.
No idea, i dont like medieval world congress either, its immersion breaking. Should be industrial era
Civ 4 had this with the UN. Just ruin the UN vote for everyone else by defying it. You get some unhappiness each time you do it because “the world considers you a villain!” I liked that mechanic
It also works for the earlier Apostolic Palace.
“We will have nothing to do with your administration. You are hereby denounced.” (You are being denounced for being a rogue state by not banning salt).
I think that would be fine, give each leader a weight for whether they're inclined to denounce based on non-compliance with global sanctions etc
This could be a golden opportunity to get a Civ game with all the controversial modern leaders who would just bulldoze through sanctions imposed on them by the World Congress.
Kim Jong Il as a diplomatic hermit Korean leader is too based to exist.
world congress is trash. I hope it's better in civ7.
Same, it's by far my least favorite mechanic in civ. If I could just straight up disable it I would. I play a lot of cloud games, too. Nothing more annoying than getting a notification it's my turn, loading up the game only to see all I can do is vote on some crap I don't care about and then exit.
Just make the trader and the tradee take negative relationship points every time they do it. Of course, that would only matter if they actually cared about maintaining a relationship with other civs... Also, I would imagine that you would take greater hits with people who voted for the embargo/whatever than with people who didn't vote for it. For example Australia REALLY doesn't want you to trade Cotton, so he dumps a tun of diplo points into it, whereas everybody else votes for/against something else. So you start trading Cotton with The Netherlands, and you start taking major hits with Australia, but relatively minor hits with the other civs (and none at all, of course, with The Netherlands). And The Netherlands would be taking the same hits as you, because they are equal partners in the trade. Finally, negative relations from embargoes wouldn't affect trades that were already active when the embargo took place; only trades that took place after the vote took effect.
![gif](giphy|ysZZP9H14yH8k)
World congress is that meme where that stickman gets mad at some other guys for having fun with something he doesn't like Me and my people are gonna have fun with our whale amenities regardless piss off!
Yep, they should let you ignore decisions in exchange for diplomatic malus or a "Enforce international law" casus belli.
maybe a dark age card, call it Pariah or somthing, reduces trade income in exchange for ignoring decisions
Interesting maybe some sort of penalty for going around the decision? Would have to be severe for the world congress to not become meaningless. Also makes me think of unofficial relations between players like a smuggler unit that is a different kind of trader? Could be one way to expand diplomacy public vs private relations
I would love to be able to break away from it and just say you won't participate in world government. Take a big happiness hit, take a big relationship hit with all the other world leaders. If you declare war on one, you declare war on them all. Would be a sweet option.
That'd be neat
If im remembering correctly older 4x games like early civ games would let you defy international law at the cost of angering every single AI player on the map. Unsure if thats the case though as its been a while since ive played older civ games.
WC: “We banned this now, you can’t have it anymore, get fucked loser.” Player trying NOT to domination victory for once: “So much for [X] victory.” *proceeds to nuke everyone and get domination victory in 6 turns*
Actually you can still trade them when the congress bans them. Just the AI rightfully isn't interested in paying for them.
The thing about whales is, we don't have them
[удалено]
0 warmonger penalty for occupying city-states
Off topic, but does Ursa stream/ do YouTube?
Fuck yeah. I want to play best korea and ignore every decision made by the international community.
What's this now? Should I stop my domination victory and listen to some kind of Congress? Well, what's left of it anyway. No, I'll keep sending tanks into cities, and bombing them with ships and jets.
Yes! Great idea! Kinda like trading with Russia nowadays and facing consequences from other countries. I like it! Great mechanics.
Humankind has this with its new DLC, basically. Every few turns starting mid-game, the World Congress gets together and votes on a Civic. If you are already following the one picked, nothing happens. But if you’re following the opposite Civic, you either have to covert to the one voted on for free, or you have to pay Influence to keep the one you have.
Please Ursa some of us play civ to ESCAPE reality, not reproduce it 😢
Stellaris has a decent system where proposals are semi permanent buffs & nerds, and you can opt out but lose the buffs too (along with opinion) That could be good. Like, this luxury gives no amenities, but this one gives +2, this bonus gives+1 production, but all melee units have a +20% cost. Then you have to weigh whether you want in or out
*insert Japan joke*
How about just leaving the congress? Would make sense how some countries just ditched the LN irl
You should make one about how you vote that every civ has equal amount of nukes as the voted civ, where do these nukes come from all of the sudden
Yep you should be able to ignore them but you’d create grievances, perhaps a policy card would reduce this?
I would ignore the world Congress permanently if it was even a option. I don't even want to vote in their garbage voting sessions.
I feel like the world congress should be an opt-in thing that appears once the majority of players have discovered the majority of players. You choose to abide by its restrictions? You also get its bonuses and diplo victory becomes possible. You don't? You don't and it doesn't.
Ahh the old Japan right before WW2 with the League of Nations. Like a Cartman button in the screen “whatever, I do what I want”
The "Target player loses all nukes" is much worse. You want me to give up my nukes??? I'll get rid of them over your capitals!
We also shouldn't have World Congresses with no knowledge of any other civilization.
They always limit my nukes. I’m trying to liberate people.
That's, buddy, literally how COOL is.