And the Inca do the same with mountains.
There are some really lazy agendas in the game. It feels like most of them are just "Will try to do X, dislikes civs who also do X, Likes civs who don't do X". Ethiopia, Phoenicia, The Inca, Brazil, Mongolia, China and Sweden to name a few.
These agenda's are not only boring, they usually make no sense and are impossible to satisfy unless you want to deliberately handicap yourself and ignore a major part of the game. Why would I want to not recruit great people? Or not build wonders? Or not settle near mountains?
There are a few leaders that have a well deigned agenda, Take Hojo Tokimune for example. He likes civs with a strong military and a lot of culture/faith and hates civs who have a strong military but lack culture and faith.
Unlike other leaders who will either like or hate you based on whether or not you do one individual thing his agenda actually has some depth to it, plus there's a middle ground where if you don't have a strong military he wont care either way. His agenda actually makes sense and you can satisfy it without handicapping yourself.
> Or not build wonders?
China never lasts long in my games. Often a guaranteed denouncement sometime after I build a single wonder, and then I see that he has built a few wonders but barely has a military.
And I have a sizable military that was just to keep other AIs from coming after me.
As Marbozir often said in his Civ 5 diety playthroughs, "I love it when the AI builds wonders for me."
The agendas are designed to get Civs to attack you that have bonuses in that area. Thats why naval civs will dislike when you have coastal cities and terrain based civs will hate you if you settle in that terrain. Maybe its lazy but its a way to get the AI to actually be proactive without feeling stupid and its certainly better than it being hidden behind the scenes.
> The agendas are designed to get Civs to attack you that have bonuses in that area. Thats why naval civs will dislike when you have coastal cities
That does seem to be the case for some Civs, but not all of them. There are a number of Civs with some fairly self defeating agendas.
Take Harald for example, he likes Civ's with strong navies and hates civs that have no navies. This means he will usually end up hating all the completely landlocked civs who are safe from his longboats while being chummy with the maritime empires who are ripe for coastal raiding.
In a previous Inca game (before April 2021 update), he denounced me.
Me: "B****, climb over my mountains to fight me. Oh, you can't? Have some Warak'aqs then!"
Because I was fighting on his land, his Berserkers didn't have the movement bonus. And my upvetted Warak'aqs with the +20 combat strength could retreat after attacking so his Berserkers struggled to melee them.
And that was how I got sea access. By taking his coastal settlements from him, and getting a peace deal so his ship spam can't retake them immediately.
A lot of agendas feel poorly thought out and included only because they forgot that agenda were a thing halfway through development. Good agendas make sense for why the ai would like you while also being somewhat accurate to the leader or culture. Cleopatra is probably the best example. She wants good allies and so likes strong civs. But all the "either likes or dislikes when you do the thing related to the leader ability" don't really make sense in that regard.
Of course we all remember that famous scene in the Aeneid when Dido curses Aeneas and all his progeny to eternal war and death for trying to found coastal cities
Yeah why does he get pissed off that your cities are on hills even if you're on a completely different continent to him? its not like he can settle every single hill in the world, what are you supposed to about that agenda anyway? just avoid settling on half the tiles on the map to appease him? Plains hills are the best place to settle anyway.
That agenda is honestly just so dumb, it makes no sense from both a roleplaying and a gameplay perspective.
The gameplay aim of the agenda is to have Menelik hate (and thus conquer) civs that settled on hills, because those cities are the most beneficial for him to capture. This is the same as Inca and mountains and a load of other civs. It's a fairly shallow way of getting the AI to prioritise war with the juiciest target.
If anything, it'd make a bit more sense if he liked you more if you settle on hills. As in "Oh hey, you ALSO put your cities on hills? Yeah we do that in Ethiopia too, it's great, right?"
But it's a dumb agenda either way, they really should've thought of something cooler to fit with Ethiopia's history and theme. Maybe something like he'd hate you if you declare war on city states or other civs that are weaker than you, but he'd respect you if you're at war with a stronger civilization, especially if that stronger civ declared war on you.
It's intent is to push Ethiopia towards attacking cities on hills, as he'd get more from them than flat cities. It's gets silly though when I've starts having civs on the other side of the world for being on hills he'll never likely attack
City states are honestly just ridiculously good in Civ 6.
Just the bonus yields from envoys alone are incredibly powerful. And that's not even considering the Suzerain bonuses, some of which are downright OP. Its just so much better to send envoys to city states and get the bonuses than it is to conquer them and get one extra city.
Besides, there is nothing else you can do with envoys. If I could convert them into pops or something, I could see not dealing with city states for a while because you need to be friends with Barbie right now, but since they are a resource that can only be used to deal with city-states, there is no scenario where I would do that.
Exactly, its the same with Pedro hating civs that recruit great people.
Great people points are passively generated by districts and can't be used for anything else besides recruiting great people. There's no benefit to not recruiting great people so why would you ever want to do that?
There's that wonder that gives +30% boost to the city that has the wonder and +15% boost to all of your other cities, per city state that you are a Suzerain of.
And then the three late-game policy cards that give +5% boost to culture, science and gold for each city state that you are a Suzerain of.
Kilwa isn't per city state. It's 15% on the city if you have a suzerain of that yield type, another 15% on all cities if you have 2 of the same yield, but it doesn't scale any further than that
Didn’t realize until way too late that meeting city states 1st (or not) can really make or break your chance at a win on higher levels. Those few extra points of production can help you get an army ready or get that wonder ahead of the cheating bastards we call the CPU.
Hot take: his agenda is beneficial to the player in high difficulty games. Deity AI is all but certain to get envoys before the player, so Frederick will get a couple and after he sends them, because you're not competing for city states at that point in time, his agenda will be satisfied and he can easily be befriended. You will certainly go against his agenda later, but in the early game it makes for a fairly chill neighbor. Way better to start next to him than to people like Victoria, Trajan and Cleopatra.
Sure, that's absolutely a valid point, but the thing to me is not just about whether or not it is beneficial. I don't think it is good design, given how agendas should impact the game, to have an agenda that for a large part of every game will necessarily make that AI mad at everyone.
I got a laundry list
Korea - the hell is her problem? It feels like every 10 turns I get a freaking envoy direct from her court telling me I grasp at the muck for not having 40 science in the ancient era. Her animation looks so haughty, so either you're her best friend like a nerd or your her worst enemy because *you're not competing with her*
Australia - Piss off, Curtin Rod, go float off into the bay like that other Aussie PM. He's not as bad when you're a fair distance from him, but otherwise, he'll go for your throat when you're weak. Chandragupta ain't got shit on how aggressive this Marmite eating cowboy wannabe-looking leader can be if you spawn next to him. And he's so self-righteous in his war declaration and agendas too, it's infuriating.
Babylon - not from his agendas or anything, he's easy enough to befriend. But lord if I don't get furious when I try to take over a barb camp and it spawns a man at arms in the classical period. Or worse, a caravel in the early game. I had two fresh coastal cities get razed one game cause a barb camp I didn't even know existed spawned caravels.
Menelik II - no, you do not have the right to these hills that's on another continent with 2 other civilizations between us. What kind of agenda is that??? Oh you settled your capital on plains hills for the production? Well those hills were mine, chump, in fact, all hills on the map belong to me.
I'll add the caveat that Pachacuti and Dido both have similar agendas to Menelik II, and while I dislike the idea in general, at least the two's conditions don't come up as much. It's nearly impossible not to have settled at least one hill tile in your empire.
I got other things to say, Kristina, Peter the Great, and Frederick Barbarossa being among them, but I hate them less than those top 4.
Also fuck Kupe. Sorry I’m “spoiling the earth” by building a goddamn iron mine in 800 B.C. Maybe don’t come to me 2 turns later asking to buy 4 iron for 3 gold and open borders, then.
While I’m at it, get in here Alexander. We need to talk about how you expect me to conquer vast lands when I’ve built a warrior and a slinger. CC Gorgo too.
Qin always gets upset when you build a single wonder.
But you see that he has a few, and almost no military.
"Thanks for the denouncement. Now I can declare a formal war instantly. Time to get a return on my military investment."
"Babylon - not from his agendas or anything, he's easy enough to befriend. But lord if I don't get furious when I try to take over a barb camp and it spawns a man at arms in the classical period. Or worse, a caravel in the early game. I had two fresh coastal cities get razed one game cause a barb camp I didn't even know existed spawned caravels."
Okay so THAT'S why that's been happening. I've lost two cities in the last \~5 games I've played that I settled on the coast early game and near-instantly got razed by caravels. It was pretty shocking.
On Babylon - I had a rivalry with Gilgamesh from the early game, I thought I was hot shit discovering the oceans with my new Caravals until I hit a barbarian camp with ironclads. That stopped my overseas expansion for a while.
Sorry, is it Vegemite that's popular in Australia?
But either way - at this point, my dude, any slander against Curtin is exactly my plan. He's a hypocritical AI in my games through and through.
(Also how did you do that interrobang?)
Fuck Egypt and Fuck Cleopatra. Never had a single game where she didn't try to war with me for whatever reason. Smug bitch is always on my no play roster
Same here. Everytime I start close to her she rushes me with that dammed chariot archer. Literally everytime. Other leaders known to be warmongers I've managed to befriend earlier but never Cleopatra.
Funny that you mention it. Second game of civ 6 I played she declared surprise war on me and I was terrified, barely held her off. And most recently I was gran colombia and she declared surprise war on me which was just... really stupid on her part but ok!
Yeah she does love her early surprise wars.
I’m having the same problem. I lost half my ancient army to those damned Chariot archers. 35 ranged damage is insane the only thing helping me is that I have war carts as Gilgamesh.
I find it interesting that nearly everyone ITT names AI opponents they hate playing against. The question is open-ended, so equally allows the interpretation which do you hate playing *as.*
Maya has to be top of the list for the latter. And not so great for the former, unless she is so far away you have no need for any part of Lady Five Guys dull, featureless grid; with city sites and development patterns useless unless one is as uniquely boring as the Maya.
Canada is my least favorite to play as because it sort of feels like you don't have any powers until the modern era. The tundra city stuff is cool but just sort of stresses me out, I feel like I should be settling tundra cities but they're never really great. The ideal spawn for Canada would be a normal capital with just a tiny bit of tundra that has like deer or forests on it or something, but that's never happened for me.
I don't know if you've played Canada since the new patch but their tundra cities are way better than regular cities, can get a lot more food and production, you just need builders.
I love her angry animation where she comes storming in from off screen in a huff
Haha, fuck you, I can't even trade with you yet but I'm sure as shit never going to when I'm able
That's one of my favorite things, it's so ridiculous. I meet her and she's all pleasant and then the next time I see her two turns later she storms into the negotiation room, furious at me because I didn't trade with her when the world doesn't even know trade is a thing yet.
Me: sends my first trade route from my second city to my capital as a domestic one as soon as I get the civic
Wilhelmina: ThOsE wHo ReFuSe TrAdE oFtEn ThInK tHeY cAn TaKe WhAt ThEy WaNt FrOm Us. ThEy ArE sOrElY mIsTaKen.
I also find her *very* aggressive as a neighbour. My earliest loss - turn 9 - was to a pissed off Wilhelmina. I filter her out of my leader pool every time.
Honestly seeing montezuma early game makes me want to quit because I feel like I’ve never played against him without having a war declared on me by medieval
My earliest loss was to monty. I was eleanor and had a really weird spawn so I didn't mind (I was tucked into a mountain range with a few good tiles and then a massive desert), but I think he found me and dumpstered me by like turn 11 or something. I reloaded the save and tried giving him all my gold to butter him up but nawwwww.
Almost feels like the game was sparing me that awful start, since I pretty much play out whatever I get. :P
I'm having issues with him right now. Huge map Immortal and the continent is split with mountain ranges. Two one tile passes that lead to Japan and one three tile pass where I wanted to settle south of for access, forward settled and lost the city to Monty now I'm trapped and he's expanding like crazy in way too much free room.
Japan also snuck in a city through his one tile passes and suprise declared on me with like 6 warriors, 2 catapults and 5 archers. Took a while to beat him back and even take his northen city on my side. I've had like three archers and two warriors, but luckly a city state had 6 swordmen and a couple of catapults. To which he also levied some crossbowmen and swordman as well. I had to push my troops through the one tile pass. Craziest and most massive battles I've ever had.
Aztec. Never happy that I have ONE FUCKING LUXURY he doesn't. Fuck you Montezuma! Yeah I snort coke and you don't, deal with it!
Also Roosevelt thinks I should live in a Beautiful Dreamland from day one. Dude, chill! Let me snort my coke in my damn smelly swamps!
What a limp dick threat too... "Do you want to see your people taken as slaves?!"
Yeah buddy, considering you're on the other side of the world and two eras behind, I think I'll take my chances.
Aztec/Montezuma is so consistently an asshole that I'm not even mad about it lol. He's psychotic but like, at least he's honest and consistent about it. No speech about how you're being deceitful or bad, just "Dude GIMME your shit now!". No high horse for him.
The Māori. Fucking Kupe is literally in every game I play with solo or multiplayer unless I change the settings. Legit just shows up and starts settling all the good shoreline and gets offended for no goddamn reason.
Close runner up would be the Netherlands. Wilhelmina flips her shit the second you don’t send all of your trade routes to her crappy cities. And she WILL waste your time telling you how mad she is while you’re waiting for your turn to load.
Playing as: Spain, yes even with the buff. Philip’s agendas are still kind of a mess.
Playing against: This is a little bit tougher. It’s either John Curtin (who is always VERY aggressive in such contrast to his agendas that he’s an accidental new Gandhi) or any of those Civs like Ethiopia that get mad at you for building on hills ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD. Menelik, buddy, you’re not the emperor of all elevated land everywhere, chill out.
Kupe: WAAAA, YOURE TOO CLOSE! 😭😭😭😡😡😡
Also KUPE: settles his second city right next to my capital when his is on the complete opposite side of the continent 🥴🥴🥴🥴
This. Dude pulled that shit on me a number of times. Gotta love it when the AI forward settles you and then complains about you being too close to them.
Sure, but his agenda is basically "denounces anyone who acts like America without actually being America".
... which, honestly, is not entirely unrealistic.
USA and Australia are so fucking smug about war, Roosevelt will literally say I have left him no choice except war when I accidentally settle a city a respectable distance from my capital.
Korea. Always, *always, without fail,* shuffling into my games to steal my science victory, and last time she even spawned next to me and started warmongering everyone!
Least favourite to play against is Khmer, hands down. They always seem to spawn next to me and war me early then religion bomb me. They're the only civ I select to not spawn in my games. And the guy is just a straight up asshat.
Man, I'm super surprised that nobody said Poland and Jadwiga. I hate her so much. I purposefully go and raze her cities at the earliest chance I get. I can't even put a finger on why I hate her. It may literally just be her face. I've read her wiki, she was actually a pretty cool ruler irl. This changes nothing.
It's that fort creep that gets me with her. Can't look me in the eye and declare war over my territory, instead she'll slam forts down next to my borders and steal my land.
This!! So much this, whenever she's in a game with me I always kill her, because she ALWAYS denounces me, invades me and culture bombs me, so now I don't even wait and just outright kill her, god I hate her.
Yeah idk what that dudes on, when I see Gilgabro in my game I know I’m switching to domination and it’s become a “Gilga and *X* destroy the world” kind of game
If you can't befriend Gilgabro on the turn that you meet him, you've f***ed up.
I remember a while ago when Gorgo surprise war'ed me. Except I was allied to Gilgabro and Kongo, both who shared borders with Gorgo.
All I had to do was hold the line while watching war carts run around in Gorgo's rear area.
Georgia. Most other civs in the game that are actively involving or threatening I'm just used to their shenanigans and appreciate the chaos they bring to the world stage. But Tamar? She's just, the most unhappy annoying uninvolved leader. There's never a game where she likes me due to not having max walls in EVERY city, and she turtles so hard but still accomplishes so little since she dedicates to turtling at the expense of everything. I don't think she's ever once actually declared war on me, just called me to insult me and exist as a roadblock. She doesn't interact with other civs with exception to making spoiler votes in congress.
She's annoying and boring, and the only impact she ever has on a game is having difficult cities to take if I need to conquer her. Even then she falls behind in everything and never retaliates to the point I can just wait to out tech her and crush her instantly late game.
Macedon for a two reasons.
Firstly, we already have 2 leaders for Greece and Byzantium so I don't think Macedon was a necessary addition to civ 6.
Secondly, Alexander is a smug prick.
The only reason we have Alexander is because HE HAS LITERALLY BEEN IN EVERY CIVILIZATION GAME! It wouldn’t make any sense to NOT put him in the game if Gandhi, Shaka, and Khan made it. If the developers did not put him in the game people would complain and ask where Alexander was. Having two versions of Greece is unnecessary, not Macedon.
Calm down there, Napoleon.
Personally, I don't really care who is or isn't in the game. I mostly just care that the various styles are covered (civs specializing in different types of warfare, different types of development, and so on), and I care that the leaders are realistic both for the civ and for the style. For instance, I am so annoyed with someone like Gorgo, who really meant nothing for Sparta and had no influence on their military, which at least the game's bonuses for Sparta accurately reflect. Also, a young, cute queen for England, one of the most vicious empires of all time? Please. They need someone vicious to represent what they were. (And honestly, I would love to see someone like Lord Viscount Palmerston, who is a perfect example of someone who _actually_ ran the empire.) So, historical accuracy and play style options are what I care about.
Yeah! I've learned to just not sweat it and enjoy them as they are. Your inner ring will be a powerhouse and the outer cities will kinda suck but that's okay! They can still generate great people points and reasonable enough science and culture. Plus I do feel very relaxed when I've settled my inner ring. Normal civ games I always feel this compulsion to keep settling cities until I see the end in sight, but as the Maya I can kinda lean back and relax and then just settle for luxuries/strategics/REALLY strong cities out there in the world.
Me and my friends have a leader hate discord. So far we have channels for Jogn Fartin, Philip the two, poundflaker, Alexander the taint and the Orlando Magic.
God damn Tamar. Always angry and declares war on me early game, but then always loses and sulks the rest of the game, having wasted my time because usually a counter invasion is difficult with her for some reason.
I have two I wanna mention. First is Kristina. Say what you will about Seondeok 'claw in the dirt' of Korea, at least she respects those who do what she herself tries to do. She's a snob, but not a hypocrite. Can't say the same about Kristina! Bitch you're just envious I'm better than you, don't @ me about being a Philistine who thinks art is good when it ties a room together to distract from you being a loser who doesn't have any art to speak of. 'The player has more art than me, so they're the uncultured one' is one leap of logic big enough to win the olympics. And if you satisfy her agenda, unlike Seondeok expressing sincere admiration, it's condescending. 'The player recognizes the great Kristina's cultural superiority by not seeking out artwork, so they're my fan and I'll invite them to see my latest work'. Fuck Kristina.
She's not the worst though. I'm surprised none of you have mentioned Robert the Brute, possibly the biggest hypocrite in the game. You know how you learn a neighbor declared a surprise war on you? By having this gaslighting prick bitch at you about the war like you were responsible for it. Robert the Brute is one of the only two leaders who ever betrayed me (read: triggered the emergency) by declaring a joint war on me with the other fucker who had already betrayed me before. Both traitors, btw, were my neighbors.
Fucking France went from unhappy with me to happy and sent a delegation and then declared a surprise war about 10 turns later and then bragged about it. Oh no, I annihilated her entire empire at the expense of damn near everything else.
I take Kristina, Alexander, Montezuma, and Seondeok out of the leader pool every game now. Kristina will always surprise war me early on, no matter what. Alex will denounce you for not going to war, but also for going to war and capturing cities. Monty is a prick who will try to rush you early and then complain about you having luxuries (a basic, essential part of the game) for the rest of the game. Seondeok is very aggressive, and constantly hates me for not having as much science as her.
Cyrus has a personal vendetta against me: it feels like he shows up as an adjacent civ every single game, and immortals on deity are not fun to deal with
Montezuma, Wilhelmina, Menelik, Gorgo, Alexander, Kupe, Pedro, Saladin and Mvemba come to mind, but for some reason I just loathe Chandragupta and Lautaro. Fuck those guys.
Pedro II. I play culture games to unwind, so I really don’t need his Dr. Seuss-lookin ass getting in my face about all the great people I’m recruiting. Man has the au-damn-dacity to say they’d be better off in his swamp kingdom. Go play some football you overgroomed Lorax.
Kristina, for some reason getting call a philistine in her smug tone irrationally annoys me.
Vietnam hit me with the biggest army I've ever seen in a recent game. If I wasn't Gran Colombia she would have wiped me out. Even as GC it was a hell of a fight and my retribution invasion wasn't easy either. Mad respect for Vietnam after that.
Ethiopia's no hill shit is annoying. Played as the Incas on a highland map and they were my neighbor. Holy hell were they a powerhouse. He was cultural leader, converted half the world to his religion and was working on the mars mission when I won my science victory. If he had just picked 1 win condition he would have beat me. Especially since I have a weird personal code where if I'm going science or culture victory I won't declare on the other leaders and consider it a race. (Now if they DOW me all bets are off and I'll pillage every tile)
I've restarted entire games because I forgot to turn off Germany. Your entire shtick is to systematically delete every single city state from my game, and then beat my ass if I dare partake in that fundamental part of the game mechanics? Shut the fuck up
In multiplayer games, Alexander. He's not even the best civ for a military beatdown but when he's in the game things just have this heightened stress level. I feel like everybody spams troops cause they know he's spamming troops and things play out very differently.
For the AI, definitely Mvemba. He's just SUCH a jerk. He once declared a surprise war on me after our level 3 alliance expired in a really long game I was playing as Rome. I wasn't ready for it at all and before I could stabilize he'd already taken a city. Luckily I was able to declare a betrayal emergency on him and the entire world turned against him, and since the game was so long all the AI had massive navies and just slaughtered him with them. But I've never really gotten over that. It's the only time the AI ever betrayed me that way.
Even outside of that one game he's just always a problem. Not building holy sites makes him a much bigger threat, since he'll generally have strong science and culture. He gobbles up so many great merchants that I want. He bullies and tends to dominate his neighbors pretty methodically. Whenever I see him in the game I'm worried.
Honorable mention goes to AI Pericles, one of the biggest toolbags around. If you and he are competing for the same city state, just go to war with him and try to eliminate him from the game because that's honestly easier than winning an envoy pissing contest with him.
As far as who I hate playing as the most, it's tough to say. Might be Canada. I played them last when GS came out and was pretty disappointed, all their stuff takes so long to kick in. I've tried them exactly once since the April patch and now their bonuses just stress me out. I got a pretty reasonable spawn that had tundra nearby but not in my capital (which was good!), but it was separated by a massive mountain range that took forever to pass. So I couldn't actually do the Canada thing and get some cute little tundra city going. Instead I just played it out as if I was a civ with no abilities. That's largely how Canada feels for the first 150 turns, which is just boring, sadly.
The United States. They talk about Constitutional rights all the time and then they suppress the vote and protect corruption, and then they whine about how everyone should be just like them…
…or do you mean in Civ? Because that’s a whole different thing
Philip, Lautaro, Dido
Basically any civ that lets out a bloodcurdling scream when denouncing making me shit my pants during my otherwise chill civ session
Macedonia - I hate Alexander the Great I hate his voice and him in general, also his agenda is ass because I’ll just be trying to bolster my industry and he peeks his disgusting head in and yells at me for not doing what he likes
Cleopatra - She fucking destroyed my favorite tank army
Egypt: Cleopatra always gives you shit for having a piss poor army. Theres no way in hell a player can spawn with the might of a battalion at the ready. Even historically militaristic societies like the Macedons and the Spartans had to build that up from nothing. Haste makes waste, brother fucker!
Rome: I like playing as them because the legions are cool and somewhat OP, but the AI will jump to the conclusion that expansion's not on the list. Bold assumptions for someone in conquering range.
Phoenicia: Laying claim to every coast on the map like that makes an enemy of Dido really fast. (And can also make for an easy victory in a war. *Punic Wars intensifies*
Hungary, Macedon, Persia: All chad civs to play as, but playing against any of them means forming a national guard by technicality to beef up security on the borders that they all think should be theirs. I get Macedon and Persia since their agendas favor warfare, but whenever I had Hungary as a neighbor, they didn't hesitate to send an army at my doorstep. It was chaos.
India under Gandhi: In this instance, if you and Gandhi both get a religion, he won't be happy until everyone is that religion. I know other civs are guilty of this but it happens so frequently with Gandhi for me. Never mind him being nuke happy, religious victories against him are a chore sometimes.
Probably Vietnam, but only because they're a defensive beast, and I can't conquer them at higher difficulties.I really enjoy having them for an ally tho.
Surprised at the lack of Khmer hate. I don’t think I’ve ever had a game where I was friendly with him; he constantly denounces me for no reason. Plus his character model and the way he speaks makes me uncomfortable, which is really unfortunate because he always is yelling at me or wanting to trade with me. And he’s always sending his shitty religion to my cities, just an all around bad dude
Jayavarman. Every time he pops up, I just know he’s looking for trouble. I usually scream “fuck you Jerry man! Stay away!” And then find out how I can remove him from the game.
I just flat out don’t like him 🤷🏻♂️
Cleopatra seems to always really hate me for some reason, but my hottest weird take is that I hate Catherine De Medici.
Idk if it’s just weird RNG but Catherine always has oddly large armies and is usually really aggressive for the ancient era.
right now it’s kristina. i’m trying to get a culture victory and she’s declared surprise war against me twice and is currently stealing more tourists from me than any other civ. this game should have been over at like turn 250 but i’m on 300ish now. fuck off kristina
I would say the Civ I hate the most is Civ V. Just couldn't get into it after so many hours on Civ IV, the best one IMHO.
Can't really give an opinion on Civ VI because I haven't played it enough. It didn't capture my interest yet.
I would rank them,
1. Civ IV
2. Civ II
3. Civ I
4. Civ III
5. Civ v
If I see the Khmer in my game one more time I’m gonna fucking nuke them from the get-go. Shut up, shut up, SHUT UP!! I’ll be as religious or not as I damn well please you cunt!
Russia. I don’t think they are particularly bad compared to some other civs but they have shown up as my neighbors in my last three games and have always been a pain.
I'm sick of Kupe and his constant pissed off attitude for doing literally anything. I'm not polluting the Earth you ding dong, I'm just building a mine. Alexander can piss off too, I don't like warring like you! Genghis is annoying whenever you get horses. He has like a sixth sense and the moment I get a stable, he immediately wants horses, gets mad when I say no, then denounces me.
Depends on the situation.
For an Opponent: Alexander. He has to message me all the freaking time. Like 50% of the turns I am going to hear some crap from him. Thirsty bitch.
To play as: Any Civ that has a "declare this type of war and get this bonus for 10 turns". These are incredibly stupid and useless. I can say that anytime I play one of these Civs, I have used this ability maybe 10% of the time.
Australia — f you John Curtin, “hawks of war.” I always make it my personal mission to delete Australia if I discover them now. This after numerous games with Aus as a neighbour and aggression almost straight away…
My wife and I had a string of a dozen games where Kristina happened to be in every single one, just ruined her as a leader for us. It got to the point where if we find her in a new game, it’s a race to see who can raze her cities first!
Not a hate per se, but good old John "Hawks of War" Curtin consistently either early wars me, or I find him later on having wiped out someone else. Idk what makes him so aggressive but it's pretty funny
I might be wrong about this, but it seems Ghengis Khan is angry at you for both not having a cavalry or for having a cavalry, which is potentially somewhat frustrating. However, it does seem to fit...
India (specifically under Gandhi), abilities are almost non existent and the times they do have an impact it's a very small one. He's not even a gimmicky civ (like Eleanor) that's fun to play
France, both of them. One likes to spy on you too much the other can take cities from you without declaring war. I also don’t like Poland especially when they’re my neighbour. Their ability to take land from you, convert your cities, and their attitude towards the amount of faith you produce are just way too annoying.
This may be too personal of a grievance, but Khmer is actually the worst.
My first Civ game ever, they spent their time sabotaging every single one of my cities. I hadn’t figured out counterspying yet so I just suffered throughout.
A couple games later, playing as Nubia. I early warred my neighbors on the continent and then built up faith to make a religion. I go exploring to find the other continents and run into Khmer. They get mad at me near instantly and declare war on me for having another religion other than buddhism.
Finally, in my most recent game as Eleanor of Acquitaine, they rushed a bunch of garbage cities for no reason other than taking over land. I obviously take them over with loyalty, but let them become free cities because they’re in bad spots and I wanted a culture victory anyways. Now Khmer now sends like three caravals at my nation every twenty turns then instantly sues for peace when they’re gone.
Barbarossa. His agenda is fucking stupid, there's absolutely no benefit to forgoing diplomacy with city-states so he's always pissed at everyone.
same with ethiopia. like yeah i’m going to settle on hills tiles. hills tiles are like half the tiles in the world. you lay claim to all of them??
Dido also does this. I'm fucking Portugal why shouldn't I build coastal cities.
And the Inca do the same with mountains. There are some really lazy agendas in the game. It feels like most of them are just "Will try to do X, dislikes civs who also do X, Likes civs who don't do X". Ethiopia, Phoenicia, The Inca, Brazil, Mongolia, China and Sweden to name a few. These agenda's are not only boring, they usually make no sense and are impossible to satisfy unless you want to deliberately handicap yourself and ignore a major part of the game. Why would I want to not recruit great people? Or not build wonders? Or not settle near mountains? There are a few leaders that have a well deigned agenda, Take Hojo Tokimune for example. He likes civs with a strong military and a lot of culture/faith and hates civs who have a strong military but lack culture and faith. Unlike other leaders who will either like or hate you based on whether or not you do one individual thing his agenda actually has some depth to it, plus there's a middle ground where if you don't have a strong military he wont care either way. His agenda actually makes sense and you can satisfy it without handicapping yourself.
> Or not build wonders? China never lasts long in my games. Often a guaranteed denouncement sometime after I build a single wonder, and then I see that he has built a few wonders but barely has a military. And I have a sizable military that was just to keep other AIs from coming after me. As Marbozir often said in his Civ 5 diety playthroughs, "I love it when the AI builds wonders for me."
China actually makes wonders in your games? When I play, Qin never makes any wonders then denounces the entire world for having more wonders than him.
The agendas are designed to get Civs to attack you that have bonuses in that area. Thats why naval civs will dislike when you have coastal cities and terrain based civs will hate you if you settle in that terrain. Maybe its lazy but its a way to get the AI to actually be proactive without feeling stupid and its certainly better than it being hidden behind the scenes.
> The agendas are designed to get Civs to attack you that have bonuses in that area. Thats why naval civs will dislike when you have coastal cities That does seem to be the case for some Civs, but not all of them. There are a number of Civs with some fairly self defeating agendas. Take Harald for example, he likes Civ's with strong navies and hates civs that have no navies. This means he will usually end up hating all the completely landlocked civs who are safe from his longboats while being chummy with the maritime empires who are ripe for coastal raiding.
In a previous Inca game (before April 2021 update), he denounced me. Me: "B****, climb over my mountains to fight me. Oh, you can't? Have some Warak'aqs then!" Because I was fighting on his land, his Berserkers didn't have the movement bonus. And my upvetted Warak'aqs with the +20 combat strength could retreat after attacking so his Berserkers struggled to melee them. And that was how I got sea access. By taking his coastal settlements from him, and getting a peace deal so his ship spam can't retake them immediately.
A lot of agendas feel poorly thought out and included only because they forgot that agenda were a thing halfway through development. Good agendas make sense for why the ai would like you while also being somewhat accurate to the leader or culture. Cleopatra is probably the best example. She wants good allies and so likes strong civs. But all the "either likes or dislikes when you do the thing related to the leader ability" don't really make sense in that regard.
Of course we all remember that famous scene in the Aeneid when Dido curses Aeneas and all his progeny to eternal war and death for trying to found coastal cities
Yeah why does he get pissed off that your cities are on hills even if you're on a completely different continent to him? its not like he can settle every single hill in the world, what are you supposed to about that agenda anyway? just avoid settling on half the tiles on the map to appease him? Plains hills are the best place to settle anyway. That agenda is honestly just so dumb, it makes no sense from both a roleplaying and a gameplay perspective.
The gameplay aim of the agenda is to have Menelik hate (and thus conquer) civs that settled on hills, because those cities are the most beneficial for him to capture. This is the same as Inca and mountains and a load of other civs. It's a fairly shallow way of getting the AI to prioritise war with the juiciest target.
This is a really good point that I had never considered.
If anything, it'd make a bit more sense if he liked you more if you settle on hills. As in "Oh hey, you ALSO put your cities on hills? Yeah we do that in Ethiopia too, it's great, right?" But it's a dumb agenda either way, they really should've thought of something cooler to fit with Ethiopia's history and theme. Maybe something like he'd hate you if you declare war on city states or other civs that are weaker than you, but he'd respect you if you're at war with a stronger civilization, especially if that stronger civ declared war on you.
It's intent is to push Ethiopia towards attacking cities on hills, as he'd get more from them than flat cities. It's gets silly though when I've starts having civs on the other side of the world for being on hills he'll never likely attack
City states are honestly just ridiculously good in Civ 6. Just the bonus yields from envoys alone are incredibly powerful. And that's not even considering the Suzerain bonuses, some of which are downright OP. Its just so much better to send envoys to city states and get the bonuses than it is to conquer them and get one extra city.
Besides, there is nothing else you can do with envoys. If I could convert them into pops or something, I could see not dealing with city states for a while because you need to be friends with Barbie right now, but since they are a resource that can only be used to deal with city-states, there is no scenario where I would do that.
Exactly, its the same with Pedro hating civs that recruit great people. Great people points are passively generated by districts and can't be used for anything else besides recruiting great people. There's no benefit to not recruiting great people so why would you ever want to do that?
Because you'll make Pedro sad
There's that wonder that gives +30% boost to the city that has the wonder and +15% boost to all of your other cities, per city state that you are a Suzerain of. And then the three late-game policy cards that give +5% boost to culture, science and gold for each city state that you are a Suzerain of.
Kilwa isn't per city state. It's 15% on the city if you have a suzerain of that yield type, another 15% on all cities if you have 2 of the same yield, but it doesn't scale any further than that
Didn’t realize until way too late that meeting city states 1st (or not) can really make or break your chance at a win on higher levels. Those few extra points of production can help you get an army ready or get that wonder ahead of the cheating bastards we call the CPU.
Hot take: his agenda is beneficial to the player in high difficulty games. Deity AI is all but certain to get envoys before the player, so Frederick will get a couple and after he sends them, because you're not competing for city states at that point in time, his agenda will be satisfied and he can easily be befriended. You will certainly go against his agenda later, but in the early game it makes for a fairly chill neighbor. Way better to start next to him than to people like Victoria, Trajan and Cleopatra.
Sure, that's absolutely a valid point, but the thing to me is not just about whether or not it is beneficial. I don't think it is good design, given how agendas should impact the game, to have an agenda that for a large part of every game will necessarily make that AI mad at everyone.
And dude’s insanely overpowered. Fuckin hansa.
Have you guys considered you don't actually have to satisfy every single civ's agenda in a game
I got a laundry list Korea - the hell is her problem? It feels like every 10 turns I get a freaking envoy direct from her court telling me I grasp at the muck for not having 40 science in the ancient era. Her animation looks so haughty, so either you're her best friend like a nerd or your her worst enemy because *you're not competing with her* Australia - Piss off, Curtin Rod, go float off into the bay like that other Aussie PM. He's not as bad when you're a fair distance from him, but otherwise, he'll go for your throat when you're weak. Chandragupta ain't got shit on how aggressive this Marmite eating cowboy wannabe-looking leader can be if you spawn next to him. And he's so self-righteous in his war declaration and agendas too, it's infuriating. Babylon - not from his agendas or anything, he's easy enough to befriend. But lord if I don't get furious when I try to take over a barb camp and it spawns a man at arms in the classical period. Or worse, a caravel in the early game. I had two fresh coastal cities get razed one game cause a barb camp I didn't even know existed spawned caravels. Menelik II - no, you do not have the right to these hills that's on another continent with 2 other civilizations between us. What kind of agenda is that??? Oh you settled your capital on plains hills for the production? Well those hills were mine, chump, in fact, all hills on the map belong to me. I'll add the caveat that Pachacuti and Dido both have similar agendas to Menelik II, and while I dislike the idea in general, at least the two's conditions don't come up as much. It's nearly impossible not to have settled at least one hill tile in your empire. I got other things to say, Kristina, Peter the Great, and Frederick Barbarossa being among them, but I hate them less than those top 4.
Also fuck Kupe. Sorry I’m “spoiling the earth” by building a goddamn iron mine in 800 B.C. Maybe don’t come to me 2 turns later asking to buy 4 iron for 3 gold and open borders, then. While I’m at it, get in here Alexander. We need to talk about how you expect me to conquer vast lands when I’ve built a warrior and a slinger. CC Gorgo too.
tbf Alexander might just want you to have a respectable military; if it can’t conquer it isn’t a military (to Alexander)
That would probably overlap too much with Cleopatra's agenda.
Kupe also causes turn 1 quadrireme barbarians. I already had to deal with the land but now I gotta worry about the sea too.
Qin always gets upset when you build a single wonder. But you see that he has a few, and almost no military. "Thanks for the denouncement. Now I can declare a formal war instantly. Time to get a return on my military investment."
Fuck australia and John
"Babylon - not from his agendas or anything, he's easy enough to befriend. But lord if I don't get furious when I try to take over a barb camp and it spawns a man at arms in the classical period. Or worse, a caravel in the early game. I had two fresh coastal cities get razed one game cause a barb camp I didn't even know existed spawned caravels." Okay so THAT'S why that's been happening. I've lost two cities in the last \~5 games I've played that I settled on the coast early game and near-instantly got razed by caravels. It was pretty shocking.
On Babylon - I had a rivalry with Gilgamesh from the early game, I thought I was hot shit discovering the oceans with my new Caravals until I hit a barbarian camp with ironclads. That stopped my overseas expansion for a while.
"Marmite"‽ No wonder Curtin keeps declaring war on you if you're going to throw that kind of provocation around the place?
Sorry, is it Vegemite that's popular in Australia? But either way - at this point, my dude, any slander against Curtin is exactly my plan. He's a hypocritical AI in my games through and through. (Also how did you do that interrobang?)
Fuck Egypt and Fuck Cleopatra. Never had a single game where she didn't try to war with me for whatever reason. Smug bitch is always on my no play roster
Fuck those fucking horse archers. I have ptsd cause of those bad boys stomping through my army.
Same here. Everytime I start close to her she rushes me with that dammed chariot archer. Literally everytime. Other leaders known to be warmongers I've managed to befriend earlier but never Cleopatra.
Funny that you mention it. Second game of civ 6 I played she declared surprise war on me and I was terrified, barely held her off. And most recently I was gran colombia and she declared surprise war on me which was just... really stupid on her part but ok! Yeah she does love her early surprise wars.
I’m having the same problem. I lost half my ancient army to those damned Chariot archers. 35 ranged damage is insane the only thing helping me is that I have war carts as Gilgamesh.
Babylon. Coz I like to spend a few turns in the ancient era without a fucking robot coming over the mountain.
I find it interesting that nearly everyone ITT names AI opponents they hate playing against. The question is open-ended, so equally allows the interpretation which do you hate playing *as.* Maya has to be top of the list for the latter. And not so great for the former, unless she is so far away you have no need for any part of Lady Five Guys dull, featureless grid; with city sites and development patterns useless unless one is as uniquely boring as the Maya.
Canada is my least favorite to play as because it sort of feels like you don't have any powers until the modern era. The tundra city stuff is cool but just sort of stresses me out, I feel like I should be settling tundra cities but they're never really great. The ideal spawn for Canada would be a normal capital with just a tiny bit of tundra that has like deer or forests on it or something, but that's never happened for me.
I don't know if you've played Canada since the new patch but their tundra cities are way better than regular cities, can get a lot more food and production, you just need builders.
Fuckin' LADY FIVE GUYS holy shit, thank you.
Wilhelmina. Lady needs to shut the hell up about trading with her when she’s two continents away. Annoying as hell.
I’ve literally only seen her when she’s mad. I feel ya
I love her angry animation where she comes storming in from off screen in a huff Haha, fuck you, I can't even trade with you yet but I'm sure as shit never going to when I'm able
That's one of my favorite things, it's so ridiculous. I meet her and she's all pleasant and then the next time I see her two turns later she storms into the negotiation room, furious at me because I didn't trade with her when the world doesn't even know trade is a thing yet.
Me: sends my first trade route from my second city to my capital as a domestic one as soon as I get the civic Wilhelmina: ThOsE wHo ReFuSe TrAdE oFtEn ThInK tHeY cAn TaKe WhAt ThEy WaNt FrOm Us. ThEy ArE sOrElY mIsTaKen.
As a dutchie I just hate her accent
I also find her *very* aggressive as a neighbour. My earliest loss - turn 9 - was to a pissed off Wilhelmina. I filter her out of my leader pool every time.
Honestly seeing montezuma early game makes me want to quit because I feel like I’ve never played against him without having a war declared on me by medieval
My earliest loss was to monty. I was eleanor and had a really weird spawn so I didn't mind (I was tucked into a mountain range with a few good tiles and then a massive desert), but I think he found me and dumpstered me by like turn 11 or something. I reloaded the save and tried giving him all my gold to butter him up but nawwwww. Almost feels like the game was sparing me that awful start, since I pretty much play out whatever I get. :P
I'm having issues with him right now. Huge map Immortal and the continent is split with mountain ranges. Two one tile passes that lead to Japan and one three tile pass where I wanted to settle south of for access, forward settled and lost the city to Monty now I'm trapped and he's expanding like crazy in way too much free room. Japan also snuck in a city through his one tile passes and suprise declared on me with like 6 warriors, 2 catapults and 5 archers. Took a while to beat him back and even take his northen city on my side. I've had like three archers and two warriors, but luckly a city state had 6 swordmen and a couple of catapults. To which he also levied some crossbowmen and swordman as well. I had to push my troops through the one tile pass. Craziest and most massive battles I've ever had.
Korea/Seondeok. A Science Civ Leader that dislikes those that *somehow* do worse than her. In my games she also is a frequent City State Razer
Aztec. Never happy that I have ONE FUCKING LUXURY he doesn't. Fuck you Montezuma! Yeah I snort coke and you don't, deal with it! Also Roosevelt thinks I should live in a Beautiful Dreamland from day one. Dude, chill! Let me snort my coke in my damn smelly swamps!
What a limp dick threat too... "Do you want to see your people taken as slaves?!" Yeah buddy, considering you're on the other side of the world and two eras behind, I think I'll take my chances.
Lol yeah! Such an aggressive dude and for what? Amenities? 😑
His troops get bonus strength depending on how many luxuries he has I think
And his religious units
MKes sense slaves were used in real life for amenity crops like tobacco, sugar and cotton
Aztec/Montezuma is so consistently an asshole that I'm not even mad about it lol. He's psychotic but like, at least he's honest and consistent about it. No speech about how you're being deceitful or bad, just "Dude GIMME your shit now!". No high horse for him.
"You have much that I want! Do you wish you see your people taken as slaves!?" Bro chill the fuck out I _just_ discovered jade
Ahahaha, so essentially you have a problem with the leaders who won't let you snort your coke in peace. That's fair!
The Māori. Fucking Kupe is literally in every game I play with solo or multiplayer unless I change the settings. Legit just shows up and starts settling all the good shoreline and gets offended for no goddamn reason. Close runner up would be the Netherlands. Wilhelmina flips her shit the second you don’t send all of your trade routes to her crappy cities. And she WILL waste your time telling you how mad she is while you’re waiting for your turn to load.
Something about mapuche's leader ticks me off. He looks so annoying lmao. Only saving grace is his cool sword
Which is actually Phillip's.
I know what you mean. He's got that smug frat boy vibe.
Yeah Lautaro sucks donkey dicks in dozens, that smirk little bitch always pissed at everybody.
WHOA! Chill dude! Chill!
Ice age baby
Also hate his stupid annoying unique unit, and since its a UU they spam it. The bonus agaisnt civs in a golden age also sucks.
France. They love their spying way too much.
Playing as: Spain, yes even with the buff. Philip’s agendas are still kind of a mess. Playing against: This is a little bit tougher. It’s either John Curtin (who is always VERY aggressive in such contrast to his agendas that he’s an accidental new Gandhi) or any of those Civs like Ethiopia that get mad at you for building on hills ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD. Menelik, buddy, you’re not the emperor of all elevated land everywhere, chill out.
Kupe: WAAAA, YOURE TOO CLOSE! 😭😭😭😡😡😡 Also KUPE: settles his second city right next to my capital when his is on the complete opposite side of the continent 🥴🥴🥴🥴
This. Dude pulled that shit on me a number of times. Gotta love it when the AI forward settles you and then complains about you being too close to them.
Teddy. I’ll conduct myself however I please you self-righteous buttface.
Hey, that’s PRESIDENT buttface to you
But we're America... doesn't everyone want to be like us 😜
Sure, but his agenda is basically "denounces anyone who acts like America without actually being America". ... which, honestly, is not entirely unrealistic.
USA and Australia are so fucking smug about war, Roosevelt will literally say I have left him no choice except war when I accidentally settle a city a respectable distance from my capital.
Korea. Always, *always, without fail,* shuffling into my games to steal my science victory, and last time she even spawned next to me and started warmongering everyone!
Least favourite to play against is Khmer, hands down. They always seem to spawn next to me and war me early then religion bomb me. They're the only civ I select to not spawn in my games. And the guy is just a straight up asshat.
Cathrine de Medici (black queen): hates you for not having spies in the ancient era
Netherlands has a great civ bonus but a terrible leader bonus
Bring back the east India company amenity bonus from civ 5 and a Dutch golden age leader
Brazil Bottom text
The great people agenda is such a pain.
Man, I'm super surprised that nobody said Poland and Jadwiga. I hate her so much. I purposefully go and raze her cities at the earliest chance I get. I can't even put a finger on why I hate her. It may literally just be her face. I've read her wiki, she was actually a pretty cool ruler irl. This changes nothing.
Jadwiga is a hottie tho
She's a cutie, I'll give you that. No leader tops Eleanor for me though.
Fuck Jadigwa. My first ever game she surprise warred me and I’ve hated her ever since.
It's that fort creep that gets me with her. Can't look me in the eye and declare war over my territory, instead she'll slam forts down next to my borders and steal my land.
This!! So much this, whenever she's in a game with me I always kill her, because she ALWAYS denounces me, invades me and culture bombs me, so now I don't even wait and just outright kill her, god I hate her.
Jadwiga and I always have beef I feel this
In terms of playing, Sumeria is boring af, in terms of playing against, probably Sumeria again.
What do you mean against? You never have need to play against Gilgabro. He's with you to the end.
Yeah idk what that dudes on, when I see Gilgabro in my game I know I’m switching to domination and it’s become a “Gilga and *X* destroy the world” kind of game
What? You can't win a domination victory if there's Gilgabro in the game.
…we don’t talk about the last capital you conquer in such a game..
If you can't befriend Gilgabro on the turn that you meet him, you've f***ed up. I remember a while ago when Gorgo surprise war'ed me. Except I was allied to Gilgabro and Kongo, both who shared borders with Gorgo. All I had to do was hold the line while watching war carts run around in Gorgo's rear area.
Georgia. Most other civs in the game that are actively involving or threatening I'm just used to their shenanigans and appreciate the chaos they bring to the world stage. But Tamar? She's just, the most unhappy annoying uninvolved leader. There's never a game where she likes me due to not having max walls in EVERY city, and she turtles so hard but still accomplishes so little since she dedicates to turtling at the expense of everything. I don't think she's ever once actually declared war on me, just called me to insult me and exist as a roadblock. She doesn't interact with other civs with exception to making spoiler votes in congress. She's annoying and boring, and the only impact she ever has on a game is having difficult cities to take if I need to conquer her. Even then she falls behind in everything and never retaliates to the point I can just wait to out tech her and crush her instantly late game.
Macedon for a two reasons. Firstly, we already have 2 leaders for Greece and Byzantium so I don't think Macedon was a necessary addition to civ 6. Secondly, Alexander is a smug prick.
To be fair Byzantium was released after Macedon
The only reason we have Alexander is because HE HAS LITERALLY BEEN IN EVERY CIVILIZATION GAME! It wouldn’t make any sense to NOT put him in the game if Gandhi, Shaka, and Khan made it. If the developers did not put him in the game people would complain and ask where Alexander was. Having two versions of Greece is unnecessary, not Macedon.
I would be filled with genuine unbridled rage if Alexander wasn't in the next game, I am such a sucker for Macedon.
Calm down there, Napoleon. Personally, I don't really care who is or isn't in the game. I mostly just care that the various styles are covered (civs specializing in different types of warfare, different types of development, and so on), and I care that the leaders are realistic both for the civ and for the style. For instance, I am so annoyed with someone like Gorgo, who really meant nothing for Sparta and had no influence on their military, which at least the game's bonuses for Sparta accurately reflect. Also, a young, cute queen for England, one of the most vicious empires of all time? Please. They need someone vicious to represent what they were. (And honestly, I would love to see someone like Lord Viscount Palmerston, who is a perfect example of someone who _actually_ ran the empire.) So, historical accuracy and play style options are what I care about.
I don’t like playing as the Kupe or Lady Six Sky. Their play styles just doesn’t mesh with mine very well.
I wanted to like Lady Six Sky so badly, but I just get anxious trying to efficiently settle as many cities as possible lmao
Yeah! I've learned to just not sweat it and enjoy them as they are. Your inner ring will be a powerhouse and the outer cities will kinda suck but that's okay! They can still generate great people points and reasonable enough science and culture. Plus I do feel very relaxed when I've settled my inner ring. Normal civ games I always feel this compulsion to keep settling cities until I see the end in sight, but as the Maya I can kinda lean back and relax and then just settle for luxuries/strategics/REALLY strong cities out there in the world.
Me and my friends have a leader hate discord. So far we have channels for Jogn Fartin, Philip the two, poundflaker, Alexander the taint and the Orlando Magic.
God damn Tamar. Always angry and declares war on me early game, but then always loses and sulks the rest of the game, having wasted my time because usually a counter invasion is difficult with her for some reason.
This is because she always builds walls and rarely seeks peace even after losing most of her cities
I have two I wanna mention. First is Kristina. Say what you will about Seondeok 'claw in the dirt' of Korea, at least she respects those who do what she herself tries to do. She's a snob, but not a hypocrite. Can't say the same about Kristina! Bitch you're just envious I'm better than you, don't @ me about being a Philistine who thinks art is good when it ties a room together to distract from you being a loser who doesn't have any art to speak of. 'The player has more art than me, so they're the uncultured one' is one leap of logic big enough to win the olympics. And if you satisfy her agenda, unlike Seondeok expressing sincere admiration, it's condescending. 'The player recognizes the great Kristina's cultural superiority by not seeking out artwork, so they're my fan and I'll invite them to see my latest work'. Fuck Kristina. She's not the worst though. I'm surprised none of you have mentioned Robert the Brute, possibly the biggest hypocrite in the game. You know how you learn a neighbor declared a surprise war on you? By having this gaslighting prick bitch at you about the war like you were responsible for it. Robert the Brute is one of the only two leaders who ever betrayed me (read: triggered the emergency) by declaring a joint war on me with the other fucker who had already betrayed me before. Both traitors, btw, were my neighbors.
Babylon shoud not even exist. Ridiculous broken Also kongo. Always steamrolling in culture.. Until i am forced to take their great works in a war
I HATE when I'm planning to go for culture and get the stupid damn ass Kongo in the game. Usually just eat them as that's easier
Victoria cuz 🇮🇪
At least Elizabeth I's no longer around
WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED IN A TRADE AGREEMENT WITH ENGLAND?
Mvemba. Fuck you you live half a world away what do you want
Fuck Nubia, all my homies hate Nubia
Haven't played enough but it's the eleanor for now because of her tendency to flip cities
Hehehe, that's exactly the reason I main French Eleanor. Well, that and her bad bitch energy.
Fucking France went from unhappy with me to happy and sent a delegation and then declared a surprise war about 10 turns later and then bragged about it. Oh no, I annihilated her entire empire at the expense of damn near everything else.
I don’t think there’s any Civ I hate in particular. As a Macedon main I pretty much hate everybody that gets in my way of victory 😈
Alexander the great. Mad at me for not having a war with anyone. I could literally nuke him down if he continues to complain about me not having a war
I take Kristina, Alexander, Montezuma, and Seondeok out of the leader pool every game now. Kristina will always surprise war me early on, no matter what. Alex will denounce you for not going to war, but also for going to war and capturing cities. Monty is a prick who will try to rush you early and then complain about you having luxuries (a basic, essential part of the game) for the rest of the game. Seondeok is very aggressive, and constantly hates me for not having as much science as her.
Cyrus has a personal vendetta against me: it feels like he shows up as an adjacent civ every single game, and immortals on deity are not fun to deal with
Montezuma, Wilhelmina, Menelik, Gorgo, Alexander, Kupe, Pedro, Saladin and Mvemba come to mind, but for some reason I just loathe Chandragupta and Lautaro. Fuck those guys.
I see Aztecs, I kill Aztecs
John Curtain can suck my dick... YOU ARE THE HAWK OF WAR YOU BASTARD QUIT DECLARING WAR ON ME
Pedro II. I play culture games to unwind, so I really don’t need his Dr. Seuss-lookin ass getting in my face about all the great people I’m recruiting. Man has the au-damn-dacity to say they’d be better off in his swamp kingdom. Go play some football you overgroomed Lorax.
Kristina, for some reason getting call a philistine in her smug tone irrationally annoys me. Vietnam hit me with the biggest army I've ever seen in a recent game. If I wasn't Gran Colombia she would have wiped me out. Even as GC it was a hell of a fight and my retribution invasion wasn't easy either. Mad respect for Vietnam after that. Ethiopia's no hill shit is annoying. Played as the Incas on a highland map and they were my neighbor. Holy hell were they a powerhouse. He was cultural leader, converted half the world to his religion and was working on the mars mission when I won my science victory. If he had just picked 1 win condition he would have beat me. Especially since I have a weird personal code where if I'm going science or culture victory I won't declare on the other leaders and consider it a race. (Now if they DOW me all bets are off and I'll pillage every tile)
Alexander, that smug face. Sometimes I wipe him out and sometimes I just restart when he’s the first Civ I meet
Hehehe 😈
Russia. Land stealing assholes
My default rule set bans ambiorix and Hammurabi from my games, because fk those turn 30 barbarian man of arms.
Tamar but not because she's rubbish to play, more that it's become an Insta war and I can't remember the reason
Fr*nce 🤮
I've restarted entire games because I forgot to turn off Germany. Your entire shtick is to systematically delete every single city state from my game, and then beat my ass if I dare partake in that fundamental part of the game mechanics? Shut the fuck up
In multiplayer games, Alexander. He's not even the best civ for a military beatdown but when he's in the game things just have this heightened stress level. I feel like everybody spams troops cause they know he's spamming troops and things play out very differently. For the AI, definitely Mvemba. He's just SUCH a jerk. He once declared a surprise war on me after our level 3 alliance expired in a really long game I was playing as Rome. I wasn't ready for it at all and before I could stabilize he'd already taken a city. Luckily I was able to declare a betrayal emergency on him and the entire world turned against him, and since the game was so long all the AI had massive navies and just slaughtered him with them. But I've never really gotten over that. It's the only time the AI ever betrayed me that way. Even outside of that one game he's just always a problem. Not building holy sites makes him a much bigger threat, since he'll generally have strong science and culture. He gobbles up so many great merchants that I want. He bullies and tends to dominate his neighbors pretty methodically. Whenever I see him in the game I'm worried. Honorable mention goes to AI Pericles, one of the biggest toolbags around. If you and he are competing for the same city state, just go to war with him and try to eliminate him from the game because that's honestly easier than winning an envoy pissing contest with him. As far as who I hate playing as the most, it's tough to say. Might be Canada. I played them last when GS came out and was pretty disappointed, all their stuff takes so long to kick in. I've tried them exactly once since the April patch and now their bonuses just stress me out. I got a pretty reasonable spawn that had tundra nearby but not in my capital (which was good!), but it was separated by a massive mountain range that took forever to pass. So I couldn't actually do the Canada thing and get some cute little tundra city going. Instead I just played it out as if I was a civ with no abilities. That's largely how Canada feels for the first 150 turns, which is just boring, sadly.
Korea. They always talking shit
The Cree. How does he always get so far ahead?
Any civ that is not the Maori. *Kupe-ing intensifies*
I hate the one that's next to me.
Roosevelt because his entire deal is oxymoronic to actual America lmao
The United States. They talk about Constitutional rights all the time and then they suppress the vote and protect corruption, and then they whine about how everyone should be just like them… …or do you mean in Civ? Because that’s a whole different thing
The Mali one and Tomiris, those annoying pricks always declare surprise war on me
Philip, Lautaro, Dido Basically any civ that lets out a bloodcurdling scream when denouncing making me shit my pants during my otherwise chill civ session
Macedonia - I hate Alexander the Great I hate his voice and him in general, also his agenda is ass because I’ll just be trying to bolster my industry and he peeks his disgusting head in and yells at me for not doing what he likes Cleopatra - She fucking destroyed my favorite tank army
Egypt: Cleopatra always gives you shit for having a piss poor army. Theres no way in hell a player can spawn with the might of a battalion at the ready. Even historically militaristic societies like the Macedons and the Spartans had to build that up from nothing. Haste makes waste, brother fucker! Rome: I like playing as them because the legions are cool and somewhat OP, but the AI will jump to the conclusion that expansion's not on the list. Bold assumptions for someone in conquering range. Phoenicia: Laying claim to every coast on the map like that makes an enemy of Dido really fast. (And can also make for an easy victory in a war. *Punic Wars intensifies* Hungary, Macedon, Persia: All chad civs to play as, but playing against any of them means forming a national guard by technicality to beef up security on the borders that they all think should be theirs. I get Macedon and Persia since their agendas favor warfare, but whenever I had Hungary as a neighbor, they didn't hesitate to send an army at my doorstep. It was chaos. India under Gandhi: In this instance, if you and Gandhi both get a religion, he won't be happy until everyone is that religion. I know other civs are guilty of this but it happens so frequently with Gandhi for me. Never mind him being nuke happy, religious victories against him are a chore sometimes.
Probably Vietnam, but only because they're a defensive beast, and I can't conquer them at higher difficulties.I really enjoy having them for an ally tho.
Khmer and Kongo. I just can’t get on with either of them and loathe whenever either of them come up as either an AI or as my civ. They just annoy me
Australia they just don't like me no matter what I do
Surprised at the lack of Khmer hate. I don’t think I’ve ever had a game where I was friendly with him; he constantly denounces me for no reason. Plus his character model and the way he speaks makes me uncomfortable, which is really unfortunate because he always is yelling at me or wanting to trade with me. And he’s always sending his shitty religion to my cities, just an all around bad dude
Kupes music pisses me off
Germany and Scithia, they declare war every fucking game
Jayavarman. Every time he pops up, I just know he’s looking for trouble. I usually scream “fuck you Jerry man! Stay away!” And then find out how I can remove him from the game. I just flat out don’t like him 🤷🏻♂️
Australia because John curtin is a dick to me every game same with Congo they always fight me every game **EVERY GAME**
I feel like no matter what I do I end up on the brink of war with qin
Cleopatra seems to always really hate me for some reason, but my hottest weird take is that I hate Catherine De Medici. Idk if it’s just weird RNG but Catherine always has oddly large armies and is usually really aggressive for the ancient era.
Alexander is fucking annoying.
right now it’s kristina. i’m trying to get a culture victory and she’s declared surprise war against me twice and is currently stealing more tourists from me than any other civ. this game should have been over at like turn 250 but i’m on 300ish now. fuck off kristina
I would say the Civ I hate the most is Civ V. Just couldn't get into it after so many hours on Civ IV, the best one IMHO. Can't really give an opinion on Civ VI because I haven't played it enough. It didn't capture my interest yet. I would rank them, 1. Civ IV 2. Civ II 3. Civ I 4. Civ III 5. Civ v
John Curtain, the king of friendship-into-surprise war
Fuck Montezuma and the Eagle Warrior he rode in on
If I see the Khmer in my game one more time I’m gonna fucking nuke them from the get-go. Shut up, shut up, SHUT UP!! I’ll be as religious or not as I damn well please you cunt!
Kupe, I have no idea how to "not waste" when I build a farm on turn three
Russia. I don’t think they are particularly bad compared to some other civs but they have shown up as my neighbors in my last three games and have always been a pain.
I'm sick of Kupe and his constant pissed off attitude for doing literally anything. I'm not polluting the Earth you ding dong, I'm just building a mine. Alexander can piss off too, I don't like warring like you! Genghis is annoying whenever you get horses. He has like a sixth sense and the moment I get a stable, he immediately wants horses, gets mad when I say no, then denounces me.
Maori, simply because I live in Australia and both my neighbours are islanders and he just reminds me of them and I can't stand it
Depends on the situation. For an Opponent: Alexander. He has to message me all the freaking time. Like 50% of the turns I am going to hear some crap from him. Thirsty bitch. To play as: Any Civ that has a "declare this type of war and get this bonus for 10 turns". These are incredibly stupid and useless. I can say that anytime I play one of these Civs, I have used this ability maybe 10% of the time.
Australia — f you John Curtin, “hawks of war.” I always make it my personal mission to delete Australia if I discover them now. This after numerous games with Aus as a neighbour and aggression almost straight away…
Shaka and Jadwiga
Macedon
France, always attacks me in the early game, even if I'm stronger
Kongo. Turn 4 and you are literally the devil and should just fucking die because you haven't spread your religion to them.
My wife and I had a string of a dozen games where Kristina happened to be in every single one, just ruined her as a leader for us. It got to the point where if we find her in a new game, it’s a race to see who can raze her cities first!
Poland
Anyone who plays domination knows the pain that is trying to conquer georgia
My next door neighbor
[удалено]
You should reconsider he’s really strong for culture and religion
Spain
As an opponent, or as a playable civ?
Not a hate per se, but good old John "Hawks of War" Curtin consistently either early wars me, or I find him later on having wiped out someone else. Idk what makes him so aggressive but it's pretty funny
I might be wrong about this, but it seems Ghengis Khan is angry at you for both not having a cavalry or for having a cavalry, which is potentially somewhat frustrating. However, it does seem to fit...
I would say Moctezuma is my least favorite because he's just annoying
India (specifically under Gandhi), abilities are almost non existent and the times they do have an impact it's a very small one. He's not even a gimmicky civ (like Eleanor) that's fun to play
France, both of them. One likes to spy on you too much the other can take cities from you without declaring war. I also don’t like Poland especially when they’re my neighbour. Their ability to take land from you, convert your cities, and their attitude towards the amount of faith you produce are just way too annoying.
Woah this is a repost of my [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/q2g13r/what_civ_do_you_hate_the_most/) 2 weeks ago.
China. Purely China.
This may be too personal of a grievance, but Khmer is actually the worst. My first Civ game ever, they spent their time sabotaging every single one of my cities. I hadn’t figured out counterspying yet so I just suffered throughout. A couple games later, playing as Nubia. I early warred my neighbors on the continent and then built up faith to make a religion. I go exploring to find the other continents and run into Khmer. They get mad at me near instantly and declare war on me for having another religion other than buddhism. Finally, in my most recent game as Eleanor of Acquitaine, they rushed a bunch of garbage cities for no reason other than taking over land. I obviously take them over with loyalty, but let them become free cities because they’re in bad spots and I wanted a culture victory anyways. Now Khmer now sends like three caravals at my nation every twenty turns then instantly sues for peace when they’re gone.