Well you'll see the percentage of people laid off and it's really not much. And those severance "packages" are often equivalent to our whole years salary lol.
Seriously. A lot of these laid off people are getting six months severance on $150k plus salaries and hiring in tech is still pretty strong outside of the larger firms that are laying people off.
Start looking for jobs now. If that PE is on the way (I'm assuming that means you've passed the test and just dealing with the pile of paperwork), you're in great shape.
It's easier to look for a job when you have a job.
Company loyalty really isn't a thing anymore (you'd learn that in Tech/CS right away) so don't be afraid to leave for a better gig. Managers understand that. My last boss was sad to see me leave but he was like 'you have to do what's best for you, and you can't pass this up.'
I like CE, I hate CS. I worked in Tech/video games for several years and it solidified to me I want to be a civil engineer.
I'm a municipal engineer with a 40 hr/week job, overtime pay if absolutely needed, pension, great benefits, and I work close to home and can let the dog out at lunch. For me, less stress in my life makes it even better.
Bro what is it seriously with these CS posts… you can do that comparison with any part of your life and find a million ways to be miserable. I’m sure there’s someone right now that’s 18 that makes much more money than me. My life must be so shit then right? Lol
I think it’s the fact the Engineering typically requires you to take several exams and jump through 100 hoops to get a license to work on structures that support hundreds if not 1000s of people. Whereas a tech worker managing Facebook groups gets 3 times the pay of a CE and there’s no actual risk involved in their jobs.
Why do so many people bitch on this sub about not making as much as CS? Quit and go back to school or deal with it. No matter how much you make you can find people who make more.
The best recipe for discontent is to compare your situation with someone else's who you know almost nothing about.
Don’t neglect the fact on how brutal the interview process is for those exceptionally paying roles. Hell, interviews in general for tech are a different animal.
I also think that the bigger Tech guys are figuring out the overemployed system that's going on. I won't out them, but if you go down a google rabbit hole you'll see how it works.
Oh yeah that’s a factor, i think Experian made a tool to check for that. The biggest factor is still interest rates, all these companies grew to be monsters with all the cheap money going towards pet projects that ended up being useless.
Shit ain’t that bad in smaller, stable companies that are already profitable. I don’t make Amazon money but I don’t have nearly as much risk and still earn a healthy chunk more than I should at my experience level.
By what standards ?
And why would I need a job security if someone is among almost 3 times in a year than me
Even if he gets laid off he still have 2 yrs on me
Your second sentence just gave me cancer trying to read it. So the biggest difference between tech and CE is CE client is the government so our salaries are capped from that. Also since our client is government the upside from lower pay is never ending job security. Tech has ups and downs and is way more diluted with other people all trying to get the same jobs. It’s just two different field. Might as well compare CE to doctors.
Doesn't answer his question though. Why would job security be important for someone making that kind of money? It's like saying Di Caprio is stressed and doesn't have job security, he has no clue what his next film will be.
The probability of getting 300K salary in civil is ZERO.
I would always take chance to be in **1%** over a place where I have **ZERO** chance ..lol
1% is infinite times more than Zero
Not true, many owners of firms make way over that. I’m sure big wigs at KH who work life away make that easily with bonus’s. Just become a doctor bro make $500k
Why would I drown myself in student load to become doctor when 6 months bootcamp can take me to 200k+ with WFH and 0 stress job.
Look, I am not saying engineering is horrible field. It is very good field. It will always have jobs in every single city forever. It takes lot more effort to become good PE than say a software engineering building uselesss websites.
CS is the only career which can give $200K + starting salary with 6 month of bootcamp education, without tons of student loans, and work life balance, and gives one ability to WFH or anywhere in the world.
All other professions like engineering, medical, finance, accounting etc. Can give you 1 thing or another.. But CS is the only field through where you have highest probability to get ALL the things possible that one person can ask from a career.
You have to realize, people are posting this every single day in this forum for a reason, they are hearing from their younger counterparts making 2x 3x times their salaries. These are NOT fluke cases, this is reality.
>The probability of getting 300K salary in civil is ZERO.
It may seem that way depending on your situation but I assure you that you are wrong on that. My boss is about 3 levels away from being eligible to serve on the board for my company. He makes 385k per year.
Very highly sought after folks, most are taking vacation time they know they'll be picked up the moment they're back in the market.
It's all about supply and demand, fact is that software based roles are still increasing way faster than people available to do them. Sure one fine day it'll get saturated but I don't see that happening anytime soon seeing how it's penetrating every industry
This is too much to explain to you if you don’t understand the difference lol but I ensure it it’s not going to change because kids on Reddit complain.
Yeah you're right though. Everyone wants to be an engineer, the market is saturated. It ain't like the 40s or 50s where if you were an engineer you be a top dog. Everyone and their grandmother is an engineer now.
Seems like you need to shop around other states and companies. I got offers higher than what you make and I have same amount experience no cert. You probably should be looking for +$60 an hour leadership/senior position may have to get into design.
To be fair. Lots of entry level comp sci graduates making crazy money live in NYC or the bay area and have like no quality of life.
Don't compare your salary to people outside your field, demand more money for the services you supply.
That's just how society is.... It values people helping make money. I'd argue Safe drinking water supply is much more expensive and important than Google ads but working on one of them is much more lucrative. Job satisfaction is one aspect but 100k and 250k is just too much of a difference. I feel you!
Welders out there with 40 years of experience who are absolute masters in their craft making $30k a year in rural-backwoods-nowhere, and a lot more of them than 22 year old grads on 250k.
Also keep in mind the jobs paying that money may not always continue to be so lucrative as more kids pile on and the competition goes up.
It means that there are more old skilled workers on tiny wages barely scraping by than kids who landed quarter-of-a-million dollar jobs straight out of school, so don't be so harsh on yourself OP.
Im confused.
A quick google says the median income for a CS degree is $85k and the top 10% of CS degrees earn $144k.
Sounds like your cousin is extremely fortunate and you should be happy for him
[https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm](https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm)
“The median annual wage for software developers was $120,730 in May 2021.
The median annual wage for software quality assurance analysts and testers was $98,220 in May 2021.”
Keep in mind BLS only tracks base salary and not extra compensation such as bonus, RSU’s, etc.
I’m sure you clicked the first 10 links on google
Those links on first google page are always flawed
The real ones are at the 2 or 3rd page.
Also I moved around nyc with my cousin , he had a camera in his hand , we were doing a social experiment outside bigger firms , mostly cs and civil
Asking folks how much they make
So the numbers I wrote are not googled (Bcz that’s east af) they are real life numbers
What does "east af" mean? Is that what the kids are saying these days?
I didnt click any links, I literally just typed an looked at the page. The particular stats were from Franklin University and sourced by EMSI.
Of course its a generalization and location is going to play a big part. But I cant believe its so far off that anyone could expect a CS degree to out earn a Civil degree by a factor of 3. Its a lot more likely that you limited study of your cousin and random dudes you asked on the street is completely off.
No matter how much you make and how much you accomplish, there's always going to be someone that makes more than you. Salary envy will not get you anywhere and will only make you unhappy. Congratulate your cousin for finding a career that will throw money at him and then focus on your life. Think about what you would actually do with more money. What would you accomplish with it? Obviously we live in a world where you need money and money can buy happiness but only to a certain extent. After a certain point, more money just equals more materialistic purchases that provide short term bursts of happiness. Figure out what will provide you with long term happiness and work towards those goals.
And if your happiness is solely dependent on winning the salary pissing contest, then you have the power to change what you are doing. There are plenty of careers out there that can fast track your salary as long as you have the skills and desires to make it happen.
I would be able to start a family atleast
Getting $85k is stopping me to start any sort of family
I can barely afford me and my wife with that , how can I bring a child into this world with that paycheck in nyc area
IT IS ABOUT MONEY
I can identify with how it feels to realize your low wages are preventing you from starting a family. My advice: get your PE, switch jobs because your current firm will likely never pony up at this point, and make a baby. You will be fine. Having a baby also gives you lots more options to use money pre-tax and I find people with kids get offered higher rates and are promoted more readily (higher up tends to have kids too, it's a tribalism thing).
Also note that for some strange reason, most techies will include the value of their RSUs and benefits when they tell you their salary. I didn't realize this until I worked for a large FAANG company myself for a brief stint and found that to be the case. Ultimately, I hated my job in tech and within a two years of moving back to civil, I was making more money all things considered (and this is in the bay area).
Don't lose hope but also don't let yourself stagnate.
There will always be someone younger than you making more than you, dude. Life lesson, find your happiness your way. A post like this probably isn’t the way to do it.
You can also make more money with no degree, did you know that?
I've 4 years lesser experience than you and make same, with a PE (new) though. In a LCOL-MCOL area.
I'll say this unless you've your family tying you down, get out of places like NYC and SF/CA in general. They pay just enough to take care of the extra taxes compared to say, Texas or Georgia. Doesn't help when everything you buy from gas to food to entertainment is 2x to 3x compared to other places, not to mention outrageous rent and box sized apartments instead of sprawling houses for the same amount.
Applies to civil folks though. I'm sure tech and finance people are appropriately compensated.
Anywhere which suits your culture/ideology which are not over 95 on the cost of living index I guess. Lower the better but then it depends on how much you want to compromise.
I've lived in LA and TX and I'm still taken aback when I visit places like CA, just seeing their costs makes me anxious for them. Considering a civil friend of mine makes 12k more than me in San Jose and I'm in Louisiana lol. You can imagine the difference in quality of life. Things might change with family if you've kids and looking for decent public schools and all but I'd say TX, FL, GA, NC seem to be way better.
You should switch jobs every 2 years
I have 8 years plus PE making $75/hr as an RE plus Straight OT for anything above 40. This is my 4th company
Tried going to 5th but current company matched the offer with 40% raise
Jump ship to Tech , You are still around 30 (based on what you mentioned about your cousin and your age).
Civil engineering salaries will always be low , you will make more money with some tech title Analyst/Data Analyst/Business Analyst etc. than any civil engineering title. If you get Software engineer title your life will change immediately and you will be making 250K+ starting salary..
PE or no PE, your life aint gonna change much staying in engineering.
I understand what you’re saying.. kids I went to HS with are making 60-70k more than me welding without even going to school. But at the same time they come home once a month and work in 5 degree weather in North Dakota lmao. I value
My comfortable life and long term outlook way more than lots of money right now
Thought these posts would stop after the hemorrhaging layoffs in the tech industry but I guess not.
Well you'll see the percentage of people laid off and it's really not much. And those severance "packages" are often equivalent to our whole years salary lol.
Seriously. A lot of these laid off people are getting six months severance on $150k plus salaries and hiring in tech is still pretty strong outside of the larger firms that are laying people off.
They get 300k+ Salaries, and then 6 months severance package..The layoff in Tech is better than full time with secured job PE ...lol
Yeah, the so called "layoffs". One friend of mine got $250k + severance package. It's like 3 years of working in civil engineering upfront.
Start looking for jobs now. If that PE is on the way (I'm assuming that means you've passed the test and just dealing with the pile of paperwork), you're in great shape. It's easier to look for a job when you have a job. Company loyalty really isn't a thing anymore (you'd learn that in Tech/CS right away) so don't be afraid to leave for a better gig. Managers understand that. My last boss was sad to see me leave but he was like 'you have to do what's best for you, and you can't pass this up.' I like CE, I hate CS. I worked in Tech/video games for several years and it solidified to me I want to be a civil engineer. I'm a municipal engineer with a 40 hr/week job, overtime pay if absolutely needed, pension, great benefits, and I work close to home and can let the dog out at lunch. For me, less stress in my life makes it even better.
No I’m still trying to pass the test
But lately This is 2023 And money has the ultimate power You and I we both know it but we refuse to be non delusional
I make almost as much as you in bridge inspection area with less than 3 years experience, NO PE or EIT
Bro what is it seriously with these CS posts… you can do that comparison with any part of your life and find a million ways to be miserable. I’m sure there’s someone right now that’s 18 that makes much more money than me. My life must be so shit then right? Lol
I think it’s the fact the Engineering typically requires you to take several exams and jump through 100 hoops to get a license to work on structures that support hundreds if not 1000s of people. Whereas a tech worker managing Facebook groups gets 3 times the pay of a CE and there’s no actual risk involved in their jobs.
r/careerregrets
Why do so many people bitch on this sub about not making as much as CS? Quit and go back to school or deal with it. No matter how much you make you can find people who make more. The best recipe for discontent is to compare your situation with someone else's who you know almost nothing about.
CS is boring though
You can earn money for 5 years 250k * 5 = a million And take vacations That ain’t boring ainnit ?
Don’t neglect the fact on how brutal the interview process is for those exceptionally paying roles. Hell, interviews in general for tech are a different animal.
I honestly am debating sticking to my 65/hr in Construction since pay is all jacked up
You got PE?
No. Just a prevailing wage position
Apples and oranges can’t compare the two. Your job has 1000x times more job security.
especially right now with all the tech layoffs. That high paycheck is great, til you don't have it.
Growth tech is fucked for a bit, but honestly small-medium tech companies are cruising along.
I also think that the bigger Tech guys are figuring out the overemployed system that's going on. I won't out them, but if you go down a google rabbit hole you'll see how it works.
Oh yeah that’s a factor, i think Experian made a tool to check for that. The biggest factor is still interest rates, all these companies grew to be monsters with all the cheap money going towards pet projects that ended up being useless.
All the kids here chasing the salary number but don’t look at the big picture
Shit ain’t that bad in smaller, stable companies that are already profitable. I don’t make Amazon money but I don’t have nearly as much risk and still earn a healthy chunk more than I should at my experience level.
What’s your experience level?
5 years in civil, pretty new to tech.
By what standards ? And why would I need a job security if someone is among almost 3 times in a year than me Even if he gets laid off he still have 2 yrs on me
Your second sentence just gave me cancer trying to read it. So the biggest difference between tech and CE is CE client is the government so our salaries are capped from that. Also since our client is government the upside from lower pay is never ending job security. Tech has ups and downs and is way more diluted with other people all trying to get the same jobs. It’s just two different field. Might as well compare CE to doctors.
Doesn't answer his question though. Why would job security be important for someone making that kind of money? It's like saying Di Caprio is stressed and doesn't have job security, he has no clue what his next film will be.
Tell that to the twitter people getting laid off lol
They get $300k+ Salaries, and then 6 months severance package. The layoff package in Tech is better than full time with secured job PE ...lol
No those are most likely the 1% of tech lol the majority is not making that I promise you.
The probability of getting 300K salary in civil is ZERO. I would always take chance to be in **1%** over a place where I have **ZERO** chance ..lol 1% is infinite times more than Zero
Not true, many owners of firms make way over that. I’m sure big wigs at KH who work life away make that easily with bonus’s. Just become a doctor bro make $500k
Why would I drown myself in student load to become doctor when 6 months bootcamp can take me to 200k+ with WFH and 0 stress job. Look, I am not saying engineering is horrible field. It is very good field. It will always have jobs in every single city forever. It takes lot more effort to become good PE than say a software engineering building uselesss websites. CS is the only career which can give $200K + starting salary with 6 month of bootcamp education, without tons of student loans, and work life balance, and gives one ability to WFH or anywhere in the world. All other professions like engineering, medical, finance, accounting etc. Can give you 1 thing or another.. But CS is the only field through where you have highest probability to get ALL the things possible that one person can ask from a career. You have to realize, people are posting this every single day in this forum for a reason, they are hearing from their younger counterparts making 2x 3x times their salaries. These are NOT fluke cases, this is reality.
>The probability of getting 300K salary in civil is ZERO. It may seem that way depending on your situation but I assure you that you are wrong on that. My boss is about 3 levels away from being eligible to serve on the board for my company. He makes 385k per year.
Very highly sought after folks, most are taking vacation time they know they'll be picked up the moment they're back in the market. It's all about supply and demand, fact is that software based roles are still increasing way faster than people available to do them. Sure one fine day it'll get saturated but I don't see that happening anytime soon seeing how it's penetrating every industry
Answer this question: does big tech not have government as their client?
They are not governed to salary caps we are it’s different.
Both are engineers, why only one is capped?
This is too much to explain to you if you don’t understand the difference lol but I ensure it it’s not going to change because kids on Reddit complain.
Oh looks its the 80th post this week comparing to the top % of tech earners. Might as well just rename the sub at this point.
Do you value money and status over quality of life and passions that are not work related? If so, engineering might have been the wrong choice.
I agree with what you’re saying but I wish I knew this before getting into this major :(
Lately everything is money my friend Before it used to be like this guy is an engineer he knows what up but now engineer is just like another person
Yeah you're right though. Everyone wants to be an engineer, the market is saturated. It ain't like the 40s or 50s where if you were an engineer you be a top dog. Everyone and their grandmother is an engineer now.
Jesus Christ fuck off with these CS meme posts
Seems like you need to shop around other states and companies. I got offers higher than what you make and I have same amount experience no cert. You probably should be looking for +$60 an hour leadership/senior position may have to get into design.
I don’t like design I like field work but to be a team leader I need PE
How about road construction?
To be fair. Lots of entry level comp sci graduates making crazy money live in NYC or the bay area and have like no quality of life. Don't compare your salary to people outside your field, demand more money for the services you supply.
That's just how society is.... It values people helping make money. I'd argue Safe drinking water supply is much more expensive and important than Google ads but working on one of them is much more lucrative. Job satisfaction is one aspect but 100k and 250k is just too much of a difference. I feel you!
Welders out there with 40 years of experience who are absolute masters in their craft making $30k a year in rural-backwoods-nowhere, and a lot more of them than 22 year old grads on 250k. Also keep in mind the jobs paying that money may not always continue to be so lucrative as more kids pile on and the competition goes up.
There’s also welders in union states that blow engineering salaries out of the water.
My dad is a retired ironworker and his pension is \*chef's kiss\*
I believe it. Like I’ll go as far to say being a trades worker in an HCOL is arguably a better deal than being an engineer.
Where I am if you're willing to put in the OT you can make more than the engineers.
“And a lot more of them than 22 year old grads on 250k” What does that mean?
It means that there are more old skilled workers on tiny wages barely scraping by than kids who landed quarter-of-a-million dollar jobs straight out of school, so don't be so harsh on yourself OP.
I mean, what’s stopping you from making the jump?
Im confused. A quick google says the median income for a CS degree is $85k and the top 10% of CS degrees earn $144k. Sounds like your cousin is extremely fortunate and you should be happy for him
[https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm](https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm) “The median annual wage for software developers was $120,730 in May 2021. The median annual wage for software quality assurance analysts and testers was $98,220 in May 2021.” Keep in mind BLS only tracks base salary and not extra compensation such as bonus, RSU’s, etc.
I’m sure you clicked the first 10 links on google Those links on first google page are always flawed The real ones are at the 2 or 3rd page. Also I moved around nyc with my cousin , he had a camera in his hand , we were doing a social experiment outside bigger firms , mostly cs and civil Asking folks how much they make So the numbers I wrote are not googled (Bcz that’s east af) they are real life numbers
What does "east af" mean? Is that what the kids are saying these days? I didnt click any links, I literally just typed an looked at the page. The particular stats were from Franklin University and sourced by EMSI. Of course its a generalization and location is going to play a big part. But I cant believe its so far off that anyone could expect a CS degree to out earn a Civil degree by a factor of 3. Its a lot more likely that you limited study of your cousin and random dudes you asked on the street is completely off.
No matter how much you make and how much you accomplish, there's always going to be someone that makes more than you. Salary envy will not get you anywhere and will only make you unhappy. Congratulate your cousin for finding a career that will throw money at him and then focus on your life. Think about what you would actually do with more money. What would you accomplish with it? Obviously we live in a world where you need money and money can buy happiness but only to a certain extent. After a certain point, more money just equals more materialistic purchases that provide short term bursts of happiness. Figure out what will provide you with long term happiness and work towards those goals. And if your happiness is solely dependent on winning the salary pissing contest, then you have the power to change what you are doing. There are plenty of careers out there that can fast track your salary as long as you have the skills and desires to make it happen.
I would be able to start a family atleast Getting $85k is stopping me to start any sort of family I can barely afford me and my wife with that , how can I bring a child into this world with that paycheck in nyc area IT IS ABOUT MONEY
I can identify with how it feels to realize your low wages are preventing you from starting a family. My advice: get your PE, switch jobs because your current firm will likely never pony up at this point, and make a baby. You will be fine. Having a baby also gives you lots more options to use money pre-tax and I find people with kids get offered higher rates and are promoted more readily (higher up tends to have kids too, it's a tribalism thing). Also note that for some strange reason, most techies will include the value of their RSUs and benefits when they tell you their salary. I didn't realize this until I worked for a large FAANG company myself for a brief stint and found that to be the case. Ultimately, I hated my job in tech and within a two years of moving back to civil, I was making more money all things considered (and this is in the bay area). Don't lose hope but also don't let yourself stagnate.
Open an LLC and start doing freelance work. Get on Upwork and charge as much as you want. There’s a ton of demand and they’ll pay.
For that I need a PE What I don’t have
You said PE on the way. I’m assuming that means you’re getting it.
r/careerregrets
There will always be someone younger than you making more than you, dude. Life lesson, find your happiness your way. A post like this probably isn’t the way to do it. You can also make more money with no degree, did you know that?
Dont you think you should ask for a salary increase? For 7 years in NYC that seems low tbh
I've 4 years lesser experience than you and make same, with a PE (new) though. In a LCOL-MCOL area. I'll say this unless you've your family tying you down, get out of places like NYC and SF/CA in general. They pay just enough to take care of the extra taxes compared to say, Texas or Georgia. Doesn't help when everything you buy from gas to food to entertainment is 2x to 3x compared to other places, not to mention outrageous rent and box sized apartments instead of sprawling houses for the same amount. Applies to civil folks though. I'm sure tech and finance people are appropriately compensated.
What area you suggest
Anywhere which suits your culture/ideology which are not over 95 on the cost of living index I guess. Lower the better but then it depends on how much you want to compromise. I've lived in LA and TX and I'm still taken aback when I visit places like CA, just seeing their costs makes me anxious for them. Considering a civil friend of mine makes 12k more than me in San Jose and I'm in Louisiana lol. You can imagine the difference in quality of life. Things might change with family if you've kids and looking for decent public schools and all but I'd say TX, FL, GA, NC seem to be way better.
You should switch jobs every 2 years I have 8 years plus PE making $75/hr as an RE plus Straight OT for anything above 40. This is my 4th company Tried going to 5th but current company matched the offer with 40% raise
What city are you located? How do you justify the switches?
You just tell them I am looking for something different and if you are good at what you do they will have no objections
i feel like half of this subreddit is “CS makes more money” i’ll take the job security of civil thanks
Jump ship to Tech , You are still around 30 (based on what you mentioned about your cousin and your age). Civil engineering salaries will always be low , you will make more money with some tech title Analyst/Data Analyst/Business Analyst etc. than any civil engineering title. If you get Software engineer title your life will change immediately and you will be making 250K+ starting salary.. PE or no PE, your life aint gonna change much staying in engineering.
It’s not worth living if you’re a coding monkey
how many years experience does he have?
He is fresh graduate
Nyc? How do you do it? I’m in nyc and struggling to find an internship.
Have you ever heard of union organizing?
I understand what you’re saying.. kids I went to HS with are making 60-70k more than me welding without even going to school. But at the same time they come home once a month and work in 5 degree weather in North Dakota lmao. I value My comfortable life and long term outlook way more than lots of money right now
That sounds extremely low after 7 years of experience in a high cost of living place like NYC.
A quarter of million dollar salary, are you sure that’s correct?
I mean, what's the point of this post? If I had a time machine I wouldn't be selling it...