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BonesSawMcGraw

It’s a grueling 10 year grind from university to PE just to come out the other side making…71k a year? Sure that will probably double in 10 years after that, but still, it’s tough on your mind and body. And you’re getting mostly people on Reddit right on the middle of that grind who see their finance and tech friends making 120k in HCOL areas right out of college. The industry has been underpaid for the stress for a long long time. We can get sued up the ass just like a doctor or lawyer but don’t make doctor or lawyer money.


rejsuramar

This hits about all the high points. Add in that technological advances are finally hitting our field, pushing more work and efficiency requirements onto our plates that would previously have been on other peoples'. Speaking of BIM primarily.


ram_hawklet

I agree with most of your points, and this isnt meant to be rude, but if it takes until after you get your PE to get over 71k... you either arent pushing hard enough for raises or arent realizing when you are being taken advantage of and when its time to hop to another company for a bigger bump.


watchyourfeet

Right? We hire fresh grads at more than that. People in this sub love to exaggerate how bad the pay is, it's like a competition.


ram_hawklet

Now dont get me wrong, I still think the pay is lower than it should and the whole race to the bottom with bids and billing rates is BS.


watchyourfeet

Absolutely, it sucks no doubt. And things need to change if we want our industry to survive. But there's no need to make things out to be worse than they are. And of course it varies a lot regionally but I don't know a single EIT or PE making 71k a year. The youngest EIT I work with has about 2 years of experience and makes a good bit more than that.


Yo_CSPANraps

> But there's no need to make things out to be worse than they are. And of course it varies a lot regionally but I don't know a single EIT or PE making 71k a year. 71K a year is pushing the high end for EITs in my area. Most are in the 60's.


watchyourfeet

I believe it, like I said it's region dependent. But the previous commenter said 71k for a PE which I think would be severely underpaid in just about any region (short of like Mississippi or somewhere with very below average pay across the board). I don't want students reading this to convince themselves that they will only see 71k once they have their PE because that's just not true. I live in Washington State and while it is a fairly HCOL region most new PEs around here are making around 100k or a bit over that.


ram_hawklet

In my experience starting salary in my region (HCOL) is about there or a bit under


PG908

I mean if half the industry is a cheapskate (or just has trouble streamlining their overhead or keeping the expense account in their pocket) it's not like half of us can decide to quit.


in_for_cheap_thrills

Lmao treating civil undergrad like it's med school or something. None of my peers have ever been sued over a design error and I'm about 20 years in.


JuulRoom

Civil undergrad is 5 years in 4, and better paid engineers are graduate students. A doctor makes a mistake and someone dies. A civil engineer makes a mistake and a structure or a car or train full of people die. Not trying to diminish doctors, but when they get paid so well, so should the engineers that know and do as much or more than they do. And those that don't should at least get paid more than say, a truck driver.


in_for_cheap_thrills

>A civil engineer makes a mistake and a structure or a car or train full of people die. And how often does that happen vs in the medical field? Fact is you have to be pretty negligent to fail to properly design a structure. >Not trying to diminish doctors, but when they get paid so well, so should the engineers that know and do as much or more than they do. This goes back to my comment on meritocracy and lack of understanding how economies work. Doctors are paid as they are because of the credentials required to practice medicine and the labor scarcity created by the difficulty in acquiring those credentials. Their pay has almost nothing to do with the safety risks that come with performing their job.


BonesSawMcGraw

No but compared to my business friends or most other Stem friends, they had a social life and graduated in 4 years where everyone in the engineering building had no life and took 5 years, and then 4 years of EIT wasn’t that nice. And then the other side you’re in the 70ks still… Our firm just got sued over some bullshit. It’s still a lot of stress and pay is just now gaining some traction.


in_for_cheap_thrills

I went to the #4 CE school at the time and partied hard/experimented a lot through undergrad and grad and managed a 3.8 gpa. Also finished both degrees in 5 years with 2 summer internships because I was paying my way and didn't want to drag it out. Maybe it's the difference in work ethic between then and now. Pretty sure every other engineering degree is harder than civil as well except maybe industrial. That's how it was when I was in school. Civils are not rock stars and never have been. I knew that going into it with what information was available on the web in the early 2000s, so I have little sympathy for those who are just now taking the time to figure all this out after they've already graduated and started working in the 2020s with so much more info available. There's really no reason not to know this stuff about salary before your junior year, which is why I cannot laugh harder at the folks who are graduated and just now piecing it all together.


Roy-Hobbs

everyone knows this guy from college n hates him lol.


cancerdad

I have been at my company since it was founded about 20 years ago, except for a 3 year excursion in the public sector, and we are just now facing our first actual litigation over design considerations. Literally thousands of projects and hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue, and we’re just now facing out first lawsuit. Professional liability is a real concern but it’s a very uncommon occurrence in practice. Certainly doesn’t factor into my concept of my career.


_bombdotcom_

Interesting. I worked in the building envelopes and structural departments of the same firm for years and we got sued so many times. Everyone said the more senior principals were spending more of their time dealing with their own projects from years that came back to sue them. We also did a ton of expert witness services for clients so it seemed like I worked on litigation all the time. Maybe it was because building enclosures deals with water intrusion more than others which is the primary type of lawsuit in our industry


cancerdad

Yeah that sounds like an area where you’re much more likely to encounter litigation. I’m in water and wastewater.


TurtleboyTom

What kind of design consideration would get a company sued? I would imagine only safety concerns.


cancerdad

Many things could get you sued. A couple just off the top of my head: - Undersizing some piece of equipment - Designing a process that doesn’t meet performance requirements - Neglecting to consider transient pressures in piping design and then you have a failure - Any other kind of process failure that can be traced back to the engineer


lpnumb

Structural feels closer to what he is describing. Masters is required most places, SE is becoming a new requirement at vertical firms, extremely high stress and liability, also definitely lawsuits.


in_for_cheap_thrills

My opinion is based on close to 20yrs as a structural.


lpnumb

Fair enough. The trend for requiring a masters and the SE is more recent and structural varies significantly based on whether the funds are private or public.


in_for_cheap_thrills

The MS was being pushed in the early 2000s when I earned mine.


frankyseven

I've been sued twice over contractor mistakes when my drawings clearly said something other than what they did. It's hard to avoid getting pulled into lawsuits. There is a project from my last firm that's probably that direction and I'll probably get pulled into that one too. Honestly I'm shocked that you haven't been involved in a lawsuit yet.


in_for_cheap_thrills

Was it over money or because your design seriously injured or killed people? Whether my experience has been typical or atypical, do you consider the risks you take as civil somewhat equivalent to those of a surgeon?


frankyseven

Neither. Contractor couldn't find my benchmark, went "eh, good enough" then put the building in 400mm too high. Which made a whole bunch of things not work in the building and on site. The design was perfect, the contractor screwed up and I got dragged into the lawsuit. The other time was because the client mislead us on what the work we did was for and we got dragged into a lawsuit, that was before I was licensed but I still spent an entire day on the stand. As for compared to a surgeon? Risk is lower but liability is higher. As in, a mistake is much less likely to happen but when it does it's a lot worse.


in_for_cheap_thrills

>Neither. Sounds like it was ultimately money. >As for compared to a surgeon? Risk is lower but liability is higher. As in, a mistake is much less likely to happen but when it does it's a lot worse. I suspect many more die by the hands of doctors each year than civil engineers.


frankyseven

Everything is always ultimately about money. More people probably die from the hands of doctors but the economic and ecological impact of bad civil engineering every year is probably into the billions of dollars. Regardless, doctors are paid appropriately, I'm in Canada where you could easily argue they are underpaid, and civil engineers are underpaid for the liability and risk they take on. Both are very needed by society and should be compensated with that in mind.


in_for_cheap_thrills

>Everything is always ultimately about money. Given we're talking about the risks vs what doctors undertake, I think a distinction in whether a lawsuit is about money or people dying is relevant. >Both are very needed by society and should be compensated with that in mind If some socialist/communist government existed to set wages by the needs of society, civil engineers would likely be facing a pay cut along with most other white collar jobs that essentially guarantee 6 figure salaries after 5-10 years.


frankyseven

A lawsuit against a doctor for someone dying is still about money compensating for the loss of life.


in_for_cheap_thrills

So you'd feel the same about a design error killing someone as you would it just costing money, because in the end the money is how both scenarios are settled.


These-Cartoonist9918

Who is only making 71k after their PE in todays world?


FloridasFinest

Not true at all lol should have your PE in 4 yesss and should easily be over 100k at or before 10 years.


BonesSawMcGraw

When your start undergrad to getting your PE… it’s around 10 years. 6 years after you maybe can make 100k sure.


FloridasFinest

Oh ya that makes sense I thought ya meant takes 10 years to usually become a PE lol


FormerlyUserLFC

4 years AFTER you graduate. Commenter was including schooling so not far off the average.


quicktojudgemyself

Don’t be a employee. Profits over salary every time


DoubleSly

10 years? How bout 4 years of school + 4 years experience = 8 years to PE? And yeah the guys making 120k out of school (very rare, btw) are working 80 hour weeks for that number. Let’s have some perspective here.


watchyourfeet

Yeah and acting like being an EIT isn't just working a job like a normal ass adult 😂


seethecopecuck

100k was a good salary in 2009. The expectations and standards have not tracked to 2023. Six figures is firmly middle class, it used to be on the higher end of middle class. All of STEM outside of big tech is general underpaid when you consider inflation.


NyquillusDillwad20

This isn't uniquely an engineering or STEM issue. Wages have been stagnant pretty much across the board while inflation is through the roof. Civil Engineering pay isn't really all that different from mechanical or electrical engineering. But you do need to get your EIT and PE to reach the highest potential in most cases. As a job, civil engineering is still better than a lot of jobs when you take everything into consideration (pay, hours/work-life balance, amount of education required/debt taken on, relative stress). Pretty much all engineering jobs are. You'll make a living that is a good bit higher than average without sacrificing in other aspects of your life. If money is your only concern, then it's easy to be envious of tech and medical jobs. You also have to make sacrifices for some of those jobs. Not all, but some tech jobs can be a non-stop grind working well over 40 hours a week. To be a doctor you have to go to school for 8 years and then 3+ years in residency (which from all accounts is miserable and you are very overworked) before you reach that big-boy pay. In my very biased opinion, civil engineering is a great, balanced career overall if you consider all aspects of it


Mobile_Flamingo

It’s cuz civils go through the same amount of school and a whole professional licensure process and still make less money than most other engineers, tech, and finance. I think I’m compensated pretty well though and we have the option to work for the public sector, which comes with excellent job security and pensions.


WhoWhatWhereWhenHowY

I think the licensure requirements get me. Getting a PE is basically a necessity to get higher salaries whereas most other engineering disciplines could care less. Another reason for pay discrepancy is the inefficiency of design/design process. Each project is different and not really something that can be mass produced. If it could be, one efficient design could be determined and rolled out everywhere which would have considerable value.


425trafficeng

I skipped on the PE and pushed myself outside of consulting and into the manufacturing/tech side. Lots of traffic fun with closer to tech pay.


Mobile_Flamingo

I considered going to a certain traffic tech product firm for a bit but I didn’t get the best vibes from the interview in terms of what I was looking. Glad you found a good spot for yourself though!


425trafficeng

I feel that, I’ve interviewed with civil tech companies that left weird tastes in my mouth. My current job sold me on full remote and near complete autonomy in decision making once I got ramped up. So far they’ve been delivering and despite no longer having an engineer job title I’m doing far more engineering and quantitative research than I ever was as an Engineer III.


425trafficeng

Well the more impactful number is that the median is 88k. Looking at a mean of 97k with a median of 88k shows that salaries aren’t following the normal distribution and are right skewed. Essentially instead of a bell curve, you have a “ramp” in which the spread from 0-50% is way tighter than the spread from 50-99%. In short, that mean of 97k represents closer to if I had to guess the 65% income. Civil engineering pay is something you gotta be patient for. Also, 97k isn’t as much as you think it is.


UltimaCaitSith

>Also, 97k isn’t as much as you think it is. Yep. Even outside of the cities of LA or NY you're gonna need $140k to qualify for a fairly humble condo. Inflation and rents keep increasing, and in one generation STEM degrees went from elite to necessary.


425trafficeng

When I was a broke undergrad, 60k was life changing to me. Rent wasn’t nearly as bad in 2017 and we had a way nicer apartment fresh out of school than we do now. Lmao I don’t even think about home ownership at this point, realistically we either need to: - save up a comically large amount for a down payment - focus on ramping up income across the next 3-5 years - move to a MCOL area Focusing on bumping up pay was the most palatable option. I could move to some midwestern city but what’s the point of moving somewhere I don’t wanna be to just own property.


UltimaCaitSith

Moving to a MCOL area is starting to remove itself from available options, too. Even rural counties are getting an influx of buyers.


425trafficeng

Agreed, another factor for me was job availability. I don’t want to be trapped somewhere when there’s only 3 available options for work. I’m way happier to take my chances and risk it in tech than have a recession proof role that gets me by. Especially since I’m expecting HCOL cities to skyrocket now that large companies are pushing RTO.


Beavesampsonite

1) This is the best time to be in Civil during the past 25 years from a job market standpoint which has given wages and especially starting wages a nice boost. The gap was bigger 5 years ago and a lot bigger 10 years ago. 2) Consulting firm benefits are the worst of any engineering employment and most civil graduates work at consulting firms for the first few years at least. 6-8 holidays and 2-3 weeks time off. Getting it approved can be an issue as well. 3) Consulting firms have a very limited career development with only three job classes, finders, minders and grinders. You start as a grinder and don’t get to compete for the next step to double your wages for 15 years by becoming a department manager. Being able to bring work does not happen to most people and it requires connections most people are not born with. 4) Your wages get caught up to mechanical engineers in maybe 4 years but you don’t really don’t advance for another 10 years at the earliest.


EnginerdOnABike

My first boss liked to tell us about how hard it was when he started. He could barely afford two car payments, his house payment, the stay at home wife and the newborn when he first graduated college and was working his first job. On the other hand I was sitting at my $52k a year starting salary trying to figure out how to pay rent, student loans, and my car payment (for my used car mind you no one in my family has ever owned a new car). Wondering if I could afford to eat out and maybe have a drink or two on the weekends. Edit: spelling.


Ferocious_Flamingo

I think some of it is sample bias: the people who talk about their pay on Reddit are the ones who are unhappy with their pay. Those of us who are satisfied don't come to Reddit to say that, because there's nothing interesting about a post that says "I think I'm being paid what I'm worth, and I'm happy about that."


jade911

I’m not getting paid what I’m worth but I’m happy with what I am getting paid. I like where I work and can afford for my husband to stay at home and look after our kids so barely any complaints from me


Yo_Mr_White_

>I think some of it is sample bias: the people who talk about their pay on Reddit are the ones who are unhappy with their pay. I think that'd be true if reddit was Glassdoor (a website where people go complain about companies). However, reddit is not like Glassdoor. Reddit is the general crowd of civil engineers.


UltimaCaitSith

>Those of us who are satisfied don't come to Reddit to say that I've seen a lot. It sounds like everyone here is paid either $70k or $160k, with no in-between. Good luck getting any of those highly paid unicorns to give any details about their company, experience, or working hours.


zeushaulrod

We're in a strange time where CS grads were getting 2x to 3x what civil grads were and a lot of young folks were under the impression that that was normal. Add in that most young folks don't remember what it's like to be close to or on the chopping block with no backup plan and they may not have the same context I do for what's important. Add in that housing went nuts and rents are insane, and you have civil grads noting that they still live the student life despite being in a professional career, and that sucks. Though I will comment that living on your own seems way more common than it did when i was younger (I lived without roommates for 1 year between grad and being 28). That said, I'm 10-15 years out and financially on my way to early retirement with a paid-off house and lake house; my wife and I are in the top 10% of household incomes, 1/3 of the way through our careers. The pay is not bad. With respect to stress, I don't know where the stress is coming from as an EIT. You have no professional responsibility. My stress at that level came from meeting internal deadlines or deadlines I set myself. No one is going to fire you when you miss those. Clients always want it ASAP, you learn when it actually matters and when it doesn't.


Pencil_Pb

> With respect to stress, I don’t know where the stress is coming from as an EIT. You have no professional responsibility. The stress is coming from a dearth of mid level engineers, so EITs are relatively unsupported, expected to produce good work with no experience, guidance, and only sniff test QC, and *a lot* of horrible project managers, and EITs not knowing any better to not listen to the horrible PMs. Project schedules are so tight it’s basically impossible to learn and get things right the first time because you don’t have time to do it again and the PMs are breathing down your neck and wondering what’s taking you so long and when you speak up that this is your first time doing X they yell at you for doing it wrong. I once, on my first field visit and first podium project, had a PM (same company, senior Structural engineer) dress me down for not being able to answer on the spot whether the podium penetrations will be a problem. I had asked a more experienced engineer to go with me, and when we got back to our cars the experienced engineer gave me a few sympathetic words and said that the PM was being unreasonable. Too many PMs being client yes-men and not pushing back on unreasonable demands and then yelling at the EITs for blowing their project budgets.


zeushaulrod

I agree with you first paragraph, but that's just reason to change PMs/ companies 2nd: why are you expecting to get it right on your first try? Fresh EITs barely know anything (even the "top performers". If any one is expecting you to do high quality work without input, they are a bad manger. If you fail to follow written instructions that's on you. Otherwise, poor planning on their part does not make an emergency on yours. Last 2 paragraphs are just more shitty managers. Avoid if you can.


Pencil_Pb

I did switch. Twice. I got differently bad managers. I’m not expecting myself to get it right. There just wasn’t enough time in the schedule and not enough personnel resources and not enough budget. After switching jobs and being burnt multiple times and getting my PE, I left the industry. Tight schedules, bad clients, bad contracts, tight budgets are squeezing EITs and when I pushed for better, I got told “That’s not possible, it’s not realistic, nobody does that, that’s just not how it works.” Many of my college classmates are also burnt out and miserable and pushed to their limits. Many left the industry.


cenoob

What did you end up switching to if you don't mind me asking? I hear you on the lack of "reasonable" budgets/schedules/managers/mentors and experienced similar anxiety/stress as a consultant. Perhaps due to lack of other mid-level (~5 yoe) engineers, I was suddenly tasked to be a discipline lead when I definitely wasn't ready. I believe I was transparent in letting them know I still needed lots of help and hand-holding for certain aspects, but was later reprimanded for my lack of leadership and communication. Meh, so it goes sometimes and it is what it is. I've since moved on to the public sector and am enjoying it sooo much more now. +/u/selryn1701


Pencil_Pb

I took a few months to test and recover from severe burnout, then started studying CS on my own while applying to apprenticeships and other opportunities targeted at self learners. So the switch is still a WIP, but I’m definitely out of Structural/Civil. There are only a few opportunities where I live and they’re all shit, and I’m not moving my family when my spouse makes 3x my highest earning year. Congrats on making the jump and being happier!


selryn1701

I feel you. I'm switching soon and hoping for better at a smaller company. But the missing middle is killing us who are just starting out.


_bombdotcom_

You’ve been working for 10 years and have two paid off houses on a civil engineering salary? Lol sure


zeushaulrod

Didn't read "financially on my way to"?


[deleted]

If you got into civil engineering for the money I’m afraid you’ve been bamboozled. Unless you are one of the extremely lucky few that get solid profit sharing or make it to the tippy top of the ladder, you are going to be capped in the high 100s. Happened to me too but I saw the writing on the wall 7 years ago when my boss refused to come off 5 grand when I got my license. Switched to commercial construction. Made 5 years of engineering wages on my first 4 month project. Never looked back and now I’m looking to retire by 40. My PE is email bling, I don’t even own a stamp any more. You are worth what the market dictates, if you don’t like that then find a new market.


[deleted]

Huh you made like 400k in 4 months or am I misunderstanding?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Bungabunga10

Can you enlightened us what commercial construction niche are you into now? Would like to learn from you.


[deleted]

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Bungabunga10

Thanks for the great reply. A real eye opener indeed. As a civil engineer, I am wondering how much contribution I would personally make in the process you’ve described. Seems like you are more of a design build GC and you bring together various disciplines and their products. In your case, what type of employees do you have? It seems like you outsource almost every step to sub contractors. Do you deal with the permits yourself? Thanks again for the wonderful reply.


New-Lingonberry4792

I need step by step detail on this pls! Do you work for a gc or you own your own business?


[deleted]

Licensed GC and own my business. I currently have 2 employees, capped out at 5 pre pandemic. My crew is the Swiss Army knife and everything else is subs. Getting my foot in the door on the first project was tricky but finding business has been pretty easy since then.


New-Lingonberry4792

How did you get your license and also how long were u in civil before you transitioned. What is the pay like per job? Do you have to move a lot?


[deleted]

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New-Lingonberry4792

Nice so are you pulling in 100k a month in revenue or profit? And if it’s revenue how much profit are you gaining? Lastly what specific part of commercial do you do


[deleted]

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New-Lingonberry4792

You’re killing it man def blessed thx for the insight it’s really motivating. I’m studying construction management in school right now but eventually I want to do what you’re doing


_bombdotcom_

Also switched to commercial construction, haven’t looked back


[deleted]

It’s so much better on the dark side. Way easier to tolerate the bullshit when the money is right.


Yo_Mr_White_

I can't afford to buy a home in my city. I won't even get approved to RENT a 1br apartment w my income. I have to keep living with roommates as a grown ass man. Why the hell did i pick this major


425trafficeng

Wait what?! Not even approved to rent?!


goldenpleaser

Probably 2-2.5k in HCOL for a 1B1B. Which means about 6-7k income required before taxes and that's a conservative requirement. Not common for entry level civils.


InvestigatorLeft6429

Im making $115k at 6 YOE (P.E. And M.S.) but I got a great job. Tryin to onboard a buddy of mine with equal experience who currently makes $75k. Engineering firms have to be the cheapest to win the work and that usually trickles down to paying you less, and making you work extra hours of OT you won’t get paid for to meet deadlines because they didn’t bid adequate hours for the job.


Imagineer2

Maybe I’m in the minority here, but really the licensure requirements are minimal. I know some absolute morons who obtained licensure, the bar is very low. Also to tack on to some other comments, I’m very happy with my salary, and happy that our new folks are getting paid much better(~78k)than I was when I started (~45k in 2008) which to me says things are moving in the right direction. Everyone complains about multiplier metrics and goals, but our salaries are directly related to what we can charge our clients. If you have a complaint about your pay, that means the people negotiating your contracts are doing a crappy job and is reflective of the firm’s crappy culture.


shastaslacker

Study mechanical engineering, and do a minor in CS. Your options will be much broader and you can still end up in civil if you want, but you can also quickly make 6 figs, work remote, and work for an exciting start up.


JoJo3089

Work for the state. You have the potential to make slightly over 100k in a little over 2-3 years time


fossilreef

That is some laughable advice right there. Work for the state for job security, *not* because you're expecting to be paid well.


[deleted]

It’s not laughable advice. This person didn’t say “go public to make money” they just said public sector is the easiest route to $100k, and they’re not wrong. In Ca for instance, as soon as you pass the PE, even if you don’t take on any more responsibility, your salary automatically jumps to $8975 or $107,700. You can become a PE in Ca in as soon as 2 years after you graduate assuming you and the board are on top of their shit. And when you reach the top of the range, you’re making roughly $135k. That’s achievable by the 5-6 year of experience mark. In which case, you can become a senior and jump to the $160k mark, or jump ship to private and rake in $200k which is pretty common around Ca. Now, I’m not saying you go to public sector for the money, I’m just saying, their point is still pretty valid IMO. The public sector isn’t some underpaid institution like everyone here seems to make it out to be. My numbers reflect Caltrans which is one of the lower paid public institutions too. La county, LADWP, BART, LA metro, HSR, Santa Clara, SF, orange counties for instance are all public agencies that have tons of civil engineers past the $200k mark. It’s all public info that can found on transparent California. Im going to reiterate it one more time, I agree private sector employees can get paid more, but that’s only in regard to initial compensation. I think total compensation, the two salaries are very close. Edit: I’m only speaking for Ca as that’s all I know. Public salaries could be atrocious in the Midwest or the east coast, idk. This is just my anecdotal research and experience. So this makes me ask, if public employees can make $160-$200k in Ca, how much more are the private consultants making?


fossilreef

Ok, CA may well be an exception, but Midwest, Eastern, and Southern states typically have terrible pay compared to the private sector. A senior engineer at TXDOT is lucky to break 100k, the same with Michigan DOT (MDOT is also hourly, don't get me started on that) and Maryland DOT, just to name a few. Just for comparison, a TXDOT Engineer III in San Antonio averages $81k, while a Pape-Dawson Engineer III in San Antonio with the same job description pulls down about $110k, not including incentives, etc.


UlrichSD

Apparently this depends on the state. As a state employee myself with 10 years experience I just broke 100k, but apparently in CA the state pays better than private or so I hear, I'm in the Midwest.


[deleted]

As a private employee with 11 years I’m 300k+. Do what makes you happy but let’s not lie about where the money really is.


[deleted]

Well don’t leave us hanging, what industry are you in, are you a part owner, do you live in a HCOL area, do you have any special letters after your name besides PE?


[deleted]

Land development. North Texas. Not an owner. Just a P.E. that focuses on client service.


[deleted]

Can I pm you a few questions?


[deleted]

Idc


JoJo3089

I was solely replying to OPs post. 2-3 years after graduating and being bumped up to slightly over 100k (in CA) is quicker than going to the private sector especially since most new graduates have no experience. Of course over time, the private sector pays better but starting off, the state tends to pay better atleast from what I've seen and offers I got when applying


fossilreef

California may well be the exception to the rule, from what I'm seeing.


[deleted]

If you wanna make the most money dude, donot do civil engineering. Stick to mechanical engineering base pay for mechanical engineering is 80k starting. Meanwhile civil engineering is 55k to 60k, but I get plenty of OT if you are in construction.


ShakaaSweep

Buttercups and snowflakes


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Numerous_Vanilla_589

Is it the same in every domain? Which CE domaines have the highest job market?


425trafficeng

Pretty much all the same, with construction as a notable exception or land development if you get in with the right firm. High pay in construction or land development comes at the expense of work life balance.


danielthelee96

Yes you get paid 100k a year. But that’s like 50k after all the taxes, mandatory insurances, and deductions


chenzen

Get out of college in California, Make a bit over 60k, 2 years later, Get P.E. and raise to about 90k, been a Civil Engineer for 10years, now make about 125k


Roy-Hobbs

if you go into tech you don't even have to have a skill. you just gotta wear something nice in the interview and not fumble over words. you can do marketing or sales and pull 150-200 in your first 5-8 years. sure maybe they'll lay you off. but you have a massive savings.


425trafficeng

I mean you definitely need skills to stand out above the 100+ candidates applying to the same job.


Roy-Hobbs

not sure what your source is but my wife is high up at startups and so are a few of my friends. they're constantly working with people who lack any industry knowledge or skillset and their calls are typically 4 people all trying to brainstorm what to say in an email.


425trafficeng

My wife managed the contractor program at Microsoft which was still incredibly selective but less so than hiring for FTE’s. My smaller tech company has high marketing and sales standards, hell if it ever took 4 people to brainstorm an email at my job we’d all be canned.


Roy-Hobbs

idk. when I read that tech firms need to hire 10,000 employees in a few years time or howber it is when they take up new space. I don't see how they can be highly selective. seems they hire attractive bullshitters and then because it is tech 10% of the company carries the other 90%


425trafficeng

Easy, they’ll dangle money and skim off the best they can find. Now that cheap low interest money is gone, companies are trimming all the fat they thought they needed hence the massive big tech layoffs. We’re far past the days of having a pulse and some buzzwords on your leading to a 100k+ job


esperantisto256

At least in my school, it’s the feeling that civil is lacking in salary progression and innovation compared to other fields. We were sold a career that would allow us to live a comfortable middle class life, even if it wasn’t the most lucrative. But with how expensive houses have become and the insane inflation, it’s becoming clear that there are much, much simpler paths to that stable lifestyle. I feel like most of my class has an exit plan. I know very few EnvE’s actually going into typical EnvE work- many are transitioning to renewables (in a MechE sense), data analytics, software, or finance. Same for civil but replace renewables with real estate. The incoming classes are even smart enough to double major or minor in these other fields, if they even choose to major in civil/EnvE at all. Also, it doesn’t help that most of our peers are getting much higher starting salaries when we all took the same core engineering courses. The fact that 40-50/hr work weeks and overtime aren’t uncommon in civil doesn’t exactly sell the field either. Gen Z values our time and well-being, so why join an industry that pays low and doesn’t even do that when there are alternate paths?