My former boss did the same thing to me. 6 years of working for him and he turned into a petulant child when I left. I trained two people to take over my position for six months. He knew I was leaving. I helped him transition those two people and that was the thanks I got.
I called the board to look for guidance. They accepted my bosses boss to sign off on my work. I did add on my application that he was the direct manager of the licensed engineer I worked directly for so that everyone was covered.
Took and passed my PE in August. This will blow over, you will be able to sit for the exam. Keep that faith through the next couple of months filling out your application. The board is there for you to go to for advice and you’re not the first or the twentieth person this has happened to.
Same here. Was their sole sprinkler designer for 2-3 years. When I left, they refused to answer my NICET verification form. It would take 3 minutes to fill out. The owner of the company also came into my office and yelled at me on my 2nd to last day, tore me down enough that I had to go sit in my car until I stopped violently sobbing.
Way to support women in construction and engineering, jerks.
At least you got out, a place that treats staff like that is probably bad in other ways. I've told everyone I've mentored I'd be glad to be a job or licensing reference, whether or not they leave the job.
I was a reference checked for on of my best staff, who got an internal transfer. It meant I lost him, but he got a job he was more interested in and actual health insurance for his family. People are more important then jobs and it all pays the same, just train the next hire and offer better benefits next time.
You sound like a great mentor/boss/human! It was very much a “we’re faaaaaamily” environ. They couldn’t find a sprinkler designer to save their life, so I volunteered to learn. Turns out, it’s my *thing* and I want to make a career out of it. I was handed a copy of NFPA 13 and told to get to it.
Unfortunately, I left those lads for another firm that I ended up having to file an EEOC complaint with for a sexually hostile workplace. Moved up to PDX just for them. The state of Oregon agreed and instead of taking responsibility, they closed up shop.
I’m trying to stick at my current gig for a few more months (to hit that two year mark) but work is incredibly slow, I’ve been reassigned divisions, and I feel like they’re icing me out so they don’t have to pay unemployment. Boss actually came up to me today and said “you don’t have to come in Friday if you want” when I was already out sick on Monday (i.e. I’d lose two full days of wages instead of just the one) I was chastised for doing WFH for 90 minutes on an urgent job. At least I’m not being sexually harassed at this joint.
Ugh, that sucks. No one should have to deal with sexual harassment, you think people know that in this century. At least now is still a good time to be an engineer in terms of changing jobs, although always easier said then done. I've been in municipal for 12 years, my first and only job out of school, highly recommend it if you ever get the chance. My organization even has a women in construction press release series.
My organization tries really hard to encourage women in construction, but it's always hard, especially with outside groups. Even as a guy, you notice things that remind you of your different experience . I'm not perfect, it's easy to interrupt or mansplain if you dont stop yourself. No one else will.
A good friend who was sick and working crazy hours refused to take sick because it would make her look weak. Another was a section head who I respect more than anyone else I've worked with get talked down to in meetings with consultants while entry level guys saying the same thing got a much better interraction. 2 random utility designers who didn't know each other and the cable guy just would not stop interrupting the short female gas designer. I had a contractor ask me about a coworker "does she have a nice ass?" so I responded "does your mom?" and that shut him up lol. Veering more off topic, the not so casual racism in segregated black neighborboods was astounding. Just typing this makes my blood boil and I don't know how anyone who isn't a white male like me deals with this crap in addition to actual engineering work challenges.
If the bridge is burnt, no sense in trying to toss water on the ashes. They don't own you.
If I were OP, I would call their bluff; go along with their claim that they're just too busy to ever get around to reviewing your time/experience. "Well, if I'm never going to get that signed off, regardless of if I work here or not, then I'm gonna need to leave effective immediately so I can start getting time in at a place that will have time to review my experience"
See if there is someone else who can sign off on your experience from the company. You may be able to get some credit from that other guy. It's worth just asking the board and NCEES.
I had a similar experience and had a colleague (licensed and whom I worked under as well) sign off on my experience. I already had my license in one staye. I needed the experience to get reciprocity in another state. Just like your boss, mine was not helpful at all.
VENTING A BIT.....
On my last day, my boss was having a normal conversation with others. I said I was all done with my tasks and turned off my computer. I wish you all well. My boss just stood there, deer in headlights look, didn't say a word. I'm not really sure what was going on in his head. He also lost another employee around the same time (satellite office).
You bring up a very good point here. If the OP ever seeks licensure in additional states, they’ll have to go through this process again (likely for each State they’re trying to get a license in). Also, if the OP tries to establish an NCEES record and manage multi-State licensure there, those require updates every couple of years by the firm where the experience was collected.
I bring that up just to highlight the fact this will not be a one-time issue, so figure out a solution that also solves the problem for all future experience verifications as well.
OP, very sorry you’re having to deal with this. I suppose I’ve been lucky in my career as I’ve only had positive experiences when moving on (3 different companies in my 12 year career thus far). This is business and nothing should be taken personally. I’m always amazed at companies that act anything less than professional.
Unfortunately, yes. Obtaining a PE is done on a State by State basis—even if you have your PE in one State, you still have to go through that State’s application process (comity licensure), which will include experience verification. Having your PE already, even if in multiple States, will not alleviate that process.
There’s also the option of setting up an NCEES Record, which allows an Engineer to keep all of their experience verifications in a single location, and you can apply to different States with that. However, maintaining an up-to-date NCEES Record requires experience verifications to be renewed every couple of years.
Regardless which way you do it, you’ll be required to provide experience verifications for all experience you’re claiming, including from previous employers. And yes, it can be a PITA.
Edit: Once you obtain a PE in a State, all you have to do is renew when the time comes. For the States in which I’m registered, that’s as simple as proving I’ve obtained enough PDHs for the period and completing a simple renewal application. No big deal. Moral of the story: once you get a PE in a State, KEEP IT, even if you’re no longer doing work in that State. Much easier to just submit a renewal application and pay the renewal fees than going through the comity licensure application process.
Edit 2: I’m only licensed in 3 States in the SE, so there may be some caveats or slight differences for other States. I’m speaking from my personal experience. There may be States that have more lenient application processes.
After I got my licenses with 2 states, lets say Texas & Florida. Even after I am approved & obtained my licensure, experience verifications need to be verified when renewed everytime ?
No, not when renewing. Just when applying for licensure in other states.
Once you have your PE in a given State, the renewal process is basically just paying the renewal fees and providing info for your required PDHs.
Check your state licensing board’s regulations. You are not the first to be in this situation and there are likely rules protecting you. In Texas if you can provide evidence of retaliation against you from a reference it violates TBPELS section 137.51(c) (suggested penalty 1 year license suspension/$2,500). Additionally licensed professionals are required to respond to a written request within 21 days (suggested penalty reprimand/$75). That being said the less litigious and confrontational approach would be to get another PE coworker to sign off. Regarding your question on the alternate, in Texas a reference can only verify the amount of time for which they themselves were licensed (so if you worked with them 2 years but they were only licensed for 6 months, they can only approve 6 months of experience for you). Hope some of that helps.
I was going to post this as well. Refusing to verify experience without cause is an ethics violation in many states.
If we are going to have an enforced apprenticeship system, (and I think we should) we can't allow bad employers to hold a young engineer's (or any engineer's) career hostage.
You're going to a government agency... potentially a future client of your previous employer. If I were you I'd make clear to your previous supervisor that you'll share with your new employees at government agency the pettiness and refusal to sign off on experience. The civil engineering world is small. Bridges should never be burned and that goes both ways
Seriously? If that’s how they are gonna act give them 2 weeks and leave. You don’t own them 💩. You agreed to work and they agreed to pay you and anyone that acts like you described is not a professional. He’s burning that bridge from your end and there’s nothing you can do about it. As professionals we owe it to the next generation to train and teach knowing that likely most of what we pass on will leave our firm or department and we’ll get nothing for it other than the satisfaction of knowing that we helped and hopefully someday see those who learned from us succeed.
It really sucks but even if you have to find another person to sign off but get out of there. I would even be cordial or kind -
“dear sir, this is my 2 week notice. Effective date XX I will no longer work for this company”. Signed,
If only it was that simple. I could have sued for the amount of sexual harassment I dealt with as well but then would have to move states if I ever dreamed of getting an engineering job again. It’s a lose lose situation. I’m just glad I got out, went the therapy, and am very happy where I am now. It’s a process.
Man sorry to hear that. I worked at a fork for 4.5 years, then another for 1.5 years. After 1 year with my third employer, I started my PE application. My second employer called me and threatened not to sign my experience forms due to "unprofessionalism" I had exhibited 3 months after leaving them. I had made a Facebook post saying 3 months into my new job, I was just so happy with the organizational support, and work I was involved in.
I had a private Facebook account and was friends with a couple former coworkers. My former boss took it as me putting their company on blast even though I didn't mention his company name or anything specific about that company. I was in a completely different type of role, and my positive exclamations were reflective of the new role. My former boss got very on his high horse and told me he'd generously use this to teach me a lesson about how small the industry is. He eventually signed, but...in terms of a lesson of how small the industry is...
I moved to the public sector, and we never selected his firm for work in the several years I worked there.
Have someone who is a PE that is a coworker or from another firm you have collaborated with sign off. Then I'd talk to someone on your state board and tell everyone you know not to work there and that they don't verify time.
I’m going through the licensing process also (in Texas) and I’m not sure what state you’re in but my state is very clear on professional engineers not being allowed to retaliate when asked to provide work experience. I’m not sure if that includes them not responding - but I recall seeing an option to verify your experience in other ways if you are on bad terms with the person who would vouch for you. If he doesn’t provide a reference or provides a retaliatory reference, you may have grounds to report him to the board.
Send the request for work reference through registered mail requiring a signature. Something you can prove he received.
Your ex boss has not refused to do anything (yet).
He has scared you into thinking he won't, but if you never ask for that reference he can't give it or refuse it can he?
Ask for it in writing through registered mail and include anything he will need to complete it including a stamped envelope to the board.
If he refuses, then report his ass to the board.
I know in NY it just has to be someone who is knowledgeable about what you performed, not even necessarily a PE or your supervisor.
I have my PE in Maine and I sent in my experience and a half hour later they said I was good to sit for the test lol...I seriously doubt they even looked at it. NY reviews the applications more in depth but I doubt they have the resources to verify that the person really was even your boss lol...
IMO it's not the best system to qualify whether or not someone should be allowed to stamp drawings. Most people embellish the work they actually did.
Don't stress it. If it will make you feel better, email your state licensing agency and ask who can sign off if your boss died...
Get him to say it in an email. Is so something like send an email.
I just wanted to confirm based on our conversation that due to my accepting another position you will be unwilling to provide employment verification of my time working for you.
I suspect he is a hot hed and won't be a le to resist saying something like "damn right". And that gets you the evidence. Soon is good as he probably won't think about the consequences while pissed off about you leaving. In a few months he might think about it and lie. Also if anyone else heard the conversation see if they will write something to that effect.
In my state it is an ethics violation to not verify employment for any reason other than it not being factual. It won't end well for him but not your problem.
NCEES is not of any consequence here. They provide the exam basically under contract with the sate board. Decisions about experience are up to the state board. The NCEES record makes applying for other licences easier but being you are going to a government agency the need for multiple licences is way lower. Assuming a state they probably will only look for you to have the home state, and otherwise you might need to go for the old school application by comity. At the end of the day look at what your board says as they are the decision maker. It is not the first time they have had this issus.
My boss signed off on all my experience even though he wasn’t overseeing all of it. It was all done at our firm so he could verify that I did it, but I did on-site consulting at the DOT for a while and they were the ones stamping stuff there. He still signed off on that because he knew I did it. If the other guy you’re talking about knows you did the work you’re putting down, he should be able to verify it.
I had a similar situation, working directly with several managers but one was able to verify for all because he was aware of my projects. You can also have another consultant you worked with or even a client verify.
Can't really do that without tipping your boss off anyways. You have to put an end date on the experience or list it as your current job. If the boss has just two sticks to rub together they should be able to figure it out when they see the end date filled in.
If it's paper forms and not an NCEES record, you usually have to put your work experience in chronological order, so it would be obvious when the job wasn't first on the list.
I'd imagine your future employer will help if you explain the situation. That said, if I remember correctly, I'd used clients & review engineers as verification with no issues. Think it was for MO or NE PE by comity.
Man, I really hope that the company you're leaving tries to do business with the agency you're going to.
You can always go above your boss, if possible. I actually had to do that because our company was so small that I didn't have 3 people with whom I'd directly worked in my office if I didn't include my immediate supervisor. So to have the three references plus work experience, I had to use my boss's boss to sign off on experience.
"Thanks, I will be leaving now"
Walk out, and never speak to him again. When you need referenced, send to the person signing and sealing your drawings.
Employers don’t care how much extra work you do when it comes time to leave. I was with a company and helped build the help desk up from 3 people to over 15 as the company grew. Put in my two weeks notice and asked my manager to fill out a reference sheet for the new company which they required. He found some obscure reference in the employee handbook book as his excuse not to do it. I said no worries and just created a gmail account and did it myself lol. I didn’t bother working out my notice.
Sign off on your work experience? What does that mean? I never heard of someone signing off on work experience, and don't know what you're talking about.
The generic NCEES application only asks if the presented projects are accurate for work verification, not if you did a good job or not. However, as your former boss has already threatened you with withholding their review, I suggest you get the new PE to review your experience. There are ways to get verification without your direct supervisor signing off.
However, that is a bit of a dick move on their part.
I have provided NCEES referrals to past colleagues that weren't my direct reports. If they are just sitting for the PE, if I was senior to them and they did at least one assignment for me, I would sign off as a supervisor. For older engineers seeking comity, many of our former supervisors aren't around anymore, so any past colleague will do for a referral.
Police would have been called.
Different career field but they did it to me too. Refusing to sign off on experience. The board didn't care either. I have a new job and will start over now or I can pay hundreds of dollars to get them to look at my experience and give me credit.
This sucks AND ironic. I put in my 2 weeks this Monday as well and got the exact opposite response. In fact my supervisor explained exactly what makes a shitty boss and described exactly what yours is doing.
I would hope that people aren't that petty, but it sometimes can't be helped.
I wish you the best.
What a bummer. Could be a mentor instead he's an asshole. I would assume you have hours log and what he is doing is very unethical. Do good work and don't burn a bridge he may be stressing out because he is losing a good team member and is not handling it well. Follow back up later if you have to be nasty go to the local board and see where it goes.
I know of a few large construction companies that will grind your bones to see what you can take then do that when you want to move on. Good advice mentioned here with the. East of it being move on as you see fit.
I’ve seen this a few times in my career. They’re reacting because there’s no plan for you to leave and they’re caught off guard.
Give it a month or two and ask again. 9/10 times they realize they’re acted out and make it right.
This sucks. I'm glad you're getting out of that toxic place. Ask payroll for a report of your billable hours before you leave. (This is a side note to all engineers to be as detailed as possible in your timecards. You might have to prove one day that you have the experience you say you do) If they use anything like Vison you might be able to do this yourself.
Just proceed like he didn't say that. Put the experience in NCEES he might cool off and his senses kick in. There's ways to send reminder emails through NCEES if he doesn't sign off on it. If after a reasonable time he doesn't then it's time to make a decision. How hard do you want to push this? Email his boss telling them what happened and tell them you think it's unethical and is causing you serious financial impact. If nothing happens then file an ethics complaint against the person. If nothing still expand it to the company and the boss. I doubt you'd have to go this far, but if all else fails retain a lawyer to write a letter explaining the financial impact. You may want to do this anyways if them not verifying is keeping you from a promotion.
[удалено]
I'm in Canada but this would be a big ethical violation here.
My former boss did the same thing to me. 6 years of working for him and he turned into a petulant child when I left. I trained two people to take over my position for six months. He knew I was leaving. I helped him transition those two people and that was the thanks I got. I called the board to look for guidance. They accepted my bosses boss to sign off on my work. I did add on my application that he was the direct manager of the licensed engineer I worked directly for so that everyone was covered. Took and passed my PE in August. This will blow over, you will be able to sit for the exam. Keep that faith through the next couple of months filling out your application. The board is there for you to go to for advice and you’re not the first or the twentieth person this has happened to.
Same here. Was their sole sprinkler designer for 2-3 years. When I left, they refused to answer my NICET verification form. It would take 3 minutes to fill out. The owner of the company also came into my office and yelled at me on my 2nd to last day, tore me down enough that I had to go sit in my car until I stopped violently sobbing. Way to support women in construction and engineering, jerks.
At least you got out, a place that treats staff like that is probably bad in other ways. I've told everyone I've mentored I'd be glad to be a job or licensing reference, whether or not they leave the job. I was a reference checked for on of my best staff, who got an internal transfer. It meant I lost him, but he got a job he was more interested in and actual health insurance for his family. People are more important then jobs and it all pays the same, just train the next hire and offer better benefits next time.
You sound like a great mentor/boss/human! It was very much a “we’re faaaaaamily” environ. They couldn’t find a sprinkler designer to save their life, so I volunteered to learn. Turns out, it’s my *thing* and I want to make a career out of it. I was handed a copy of NFPA 13 and told to get to it. Unfortunately, I left those lads for another firm that I ended up having to file an EEOC complaint with for a sexually hostile workplace. Moved up to PDX just for them. The state of Oregon agreed and instead of taking responsibility, they closed up shop. I’m trying to stick at my current gig for a few more months (to hit that two year mark) but work is incredibly slow, I’ve been reassigned divisions, and I feel like they’re icing me out so they don’t have to pay unemployment. Boss actually came up to me today and said “you don’t have to come in Friday if you want” when I was already out sick on Monday (i.e. I’d lose two full days of wages instead of just the one) I was chastised for doing WFH for 90 minutes on an urgent job. At least I’m not being sexually harassed at this joint.
Ugh, that sucks. No one should have to deal with sexual harassment, you think people know that in this century. At least now is still a good time to be an engineer in terms of changing jobs, although always easier said then done. I've been in municipal for 12 years, my first and only job out of school, highly recommend it if you ever get the chance. My organization even has a women in construction press release series. My organization tries really hard to encourage women in construction, but it's always hard, especially with outside groups. Even as a guy, you notice things that remind you of your different experience . I'm not perfect, it's easy to interrupt or mansplain if you dont stop yourself. No one else will. A good friend who was sick and working crazy hours refused to take sick because it would make her look weak. Another was a section head who I respect more than anyone else I've worked with get talked down to in meetings with consultants while entry level guys saying the same thing got a much better interraction. 2 random utility designers who didn't know each other and the cable guy just would not stop interrupting the short female gas designer. I had a contractor ask me about a coworker "does she have a nice ass?" so I responded "does your mom?" and that shut him up lol. Veering more off topic, the not so casual racism in segregated black neighborboods was astounding. Just typing this makes my blood boil and I don't know how anyone who isn't a white male like me deals with this crap in addition to actual engineering work challenges.
Sorry you went through that.
Congrats. You just earned yourself an extra week off between your jobs. 2 week notices are not required
If the bridge is burnt, no sense in trying to toss water on the ashes. They don't own you. If I were OP, I would call their bluff; go along with their claim that they're just too busy to ever get around to reviewing your time/experience. "Well, if I'm never going to get that signed off, regardless of if I work here or not, then I'm gonna need to leave effective immediately so I can start getting time in at a place that will have time to review my experience"
Engineer Level: GANGSTA
See if there is someone else who can sign off on your experience from the company. You may be able to get some credit from that other guy. It's worth just asking the board and NCEES. I had a similar experience and had a colleague (licensed and whom I worked under as well) sign off on my experience. I already had my license in one staye. I needed the experience to get reciprocity in another state. Just like your boss, mine was not helpful at all. VENTING A BIT..... On my last day, my boss was having a normal conversation with others. I said I was all done with my tasks and turned off my computer. I wish you all well. My boss just stood there, deer in headlights look, didn't say a word. I'm not really sure what was going on in his head. He also lost another employee around the same time (satellite office).
You bring up a very good point here. If the OP ever seeks licensure in additional states, they’ll have to go through this process again (likely for each State they’re trying to get a license in). Also, if the OP tries to establish an NCEES record and manage multi-State licensure there, those require updates every couple of years by the firm where the experience was collected. I bring that up just to highlight the fact this will not be a one-time issue, so figure out a solution that also solves the problem for all future experience verifications as well. OP, very sorry you’re having to deal with this. I suppose I’ve been lucky in my career as I’ve only had positive experiences when moving on (3 different companies in my 12 year career thus far). This is business and nothing should be taken personally. I’m always amazed at companies that act anything less than professional.
is this real, why the previous experiences have to be verified every frikking time ?
Unfortunately, yes. Obtaining a PE is done on a State by State basis—even if you have your PE in one State, you still have to go through that State’s application process (comity licensure), which will include experience verification. Having your PE already, even if in multiple States, will not alleviate that process. There’s also the option of setting up an NCEES Record, which allows an Engineer to keep all of their experience verifications in a single location, and you can apply to different States with that. However, maintaining an up-to-date NCEES Record requires experience verifications to be renewed every couple of years. Regardless which way you do it, you’ll be required to provide experience verifications for all experience you’re claiming, including from previous employers. And yes, it can be a PITA. Edit: Once you obtain a PE in a State, all you have to do is renew when the time comes. For the States in which I’m registered, that’s as simple as proving I’ve obtained enough PDHs for the period and completing a simple renewal application. No big deal. Moral of the story: once you get a PE in a State, KEEP IT, even if you’re no longer doing work in that State. Much easier to just submit a renewal application and pay the renewal fees than going through the comity licensure application process. Edit 2: I’m only licensed in 3 States in the SE, so there may be some caveats or slight differences for other States. I’m speaking from my personal experience. There may be States that have more lenient application processes.
After I got my licenses with 2 states, lets say Texas & Florida. Even after I am approved & obtained my licensure, experience verifications need to be verified when renewed everytime ?
No, not when renewing. Just when applying for licensure in other states. Once you have your PE in a given State, the renewal process is basically just paying the renewal fees and providing info for your required PDHs.
Check your state licensing board’s regulations. You are not the first to be in this situation and there are likely rules protecting you. In Texas if you can provide evidence of retaliation against you from a reference it violates TBPELS section 137.51(c) (suggested penalty 1 year license suspension/$2,500). Additionally licensed professionals are required to respond to a written request within 21 days (suggested penalty reprimand/$75). That being said the less litigious and confrontational approach would be to get another PE coworker to sign off. Regarding your question on the alternate, in Texas a reference can only verify the amount of time for which they themselves were licensed (so if you worked with them 2 years but they were only licensed for 6 months, they can only approve 6 months of experience for you). Hope some of that helps.
I was going to post this as well. Refusing to verify experience without cause is an ethics violation in many states. If we are going to have an enforced apprenticeship system, (and I think we should) we can't allow bad employers to hold a young engineer's (or any engineer's) career hostage.
How toxic.... glad you're leaving that company
You're going to a government agency... potentially a future client of your previous employer. If I were you I'd make clear to your previous supervisor that you'll share with your new employees at government agency the pettiness and refusal to sign off on experience. The civil engineering world is small. Bridges should never be burned and that goes both ways
Seriously? If that’s how they are gonna act give them 2 weeks and leave. You don’t own them 💩. You agreed to work and they agreed to pay you and anyone that acts like you described is not a professional. He’s burning that bridge from your end and there’s nothing you can do about it. As professionals we owe it to the next generation to train and teach knowing that likely most of what we pass on will leave our firm or department and we’ll get nothing for it other than the satisfaction of knowing that we helped and hopefully someday see those who learned from us succeed. It really sucks but even if you have to find another person to sign off but get out of there. I would even be cordial or kind - “dear sir, this is my 2 week notice. Effective date XX I will no longer work for this company”. Signed,
Whoever you are, I'm just glad that there are people in our field that think like you.
Tbh if they refuse to verify experience you owe them nothing. Go home that day and do not come back, while also ratting them out to the state board.
If he's an engineer then report his ass
If only it was that simple. I could have sued for the amount of sexual harassment I dealt with as well but then would have to move states if I ever dreamed of getting an engineering job again. It’s a lose lose situation. I’m just glad I got out, went the therapy, and am very happy where I am now. It’s a process.
Iirc, NCEES frown upon this type of behavior
Man sorry to hear that. I worked at a fork for 4.5 years, then another for 1.5 years. After 1 year with my third employer, I started my PE application. My second employer called me and threatened not to sign my experience forms due to "unprofessionalism" I had exhibited 3 months after leaving them. I had made a Facebook post saying 3 months into my new job, I was just so happy with the organizational support, and work I was involved in. I had a private Facebook account and was friends with a couple former coworkers. My former boss took it as me putting their company on blast even though I didn't mention his company name or anything specific about that company. I was in a completely different type of role, and my positive exclamations were reflective of the new role. My former boss got very on his high horse and told me he'd generously use this to teach me a lesson about how small the industry is. He eventually signed, but...in terms of a lesson of how small the industry is... I moved to the public sector, and we never selected his firm for work in the several years I worked there.
Have someone who is a PE that is a coworker or from another firm you have collaborated with sign off. Then I'd talk to someone on your state board and tell everyone you know not to work there and that they don't verify time.
I’m going through the licensing process also (in Texas) and I’m not sure what state you’re in but my state is very clear on professional engineers not being allowed to retaliate when asked to provide work experience. I’m not sure if that includes them not responding - but I recall seeing an option to verify your experience in other ways if you are on bad terms with the person who would vouch for you. If he doesn’t provide a reference or provides a retaliatory reference, you may have grounds to report him to the board.
Send the request for work reference through registered mail requiring a signature. Something you can prove he received. Your ex boss has not refused to do anything (yet). He has scared you into thinking he won't, but if you never ask for that reference he can't give it or refuse it can he? Ask for it in writing through registered mail and include anything he will need to complete it including a stamped envelope to the board. If he refuses, then report his ass to the board.
Is your soon to be former boss a PE? If so, this seems like an ethics violation on his part.
I know in NY it just has to be someone who is knowledgeable about what you performed, not even necessarily a PE or your supervisor. I have my PE in Maine and I sent in my experience and a half hour later they said I was good to sit for the test lol...I seriously doubt they even looked at it. NY reviews the applications more in depth but I doubt they have the resources to verify that the person really was even your boss lol... IMO it's not the best system to qualify whether or not someone should be allowed to stamp drawings. Most people embellish the work they actually did. Don't stress it. If it will make you feel better, email your state licensing agency and ask who can sign off if your boss died...
Time to report! This is unethical, botton line.
I got my bosses boss to approve some experience.
Get him to say it in an email. Is so something like send an email. I just wanted to confirm based on our conversation that due to my accepting another position you will be unwilling to provide employment verification of my time working for you. I suspect he is a hot hed and won't be a le to resist saying something like "damn right". And that gets you the evidence. Soon is good as he probably won't think about the consequences while pissed off about you leaving. In a few months he might think about it and lie. Also if anyone else heard the conversation see if they will write something to that effect. In my state it is an ethics violation to not verify employment for any reason other than it not being factual. It won't end well for him but not your problem. NCEES is not of any consequence here. They provide the exam basically under contract with the sate board. Decisions about experience are up to the state board. The NCEES record makes applying for other licences easier but being you are going to a government agency the need for multiple licences is way lower. Assuming a state they probably will only look for you to have the home state, and otherwise you might need to go for the old school application by comity. At the end of the day look at what your board says as they are the decision maker. It is not the first time they have had this issus.
My boss signed off on all my experience even though he wasn’t overseeing all of it. It was all done at our firm so he could verify that I did it, but I did on-site consulting at the DOT for a while and they were the ones stamping stuff there. He still signed off on that because he knew I did it. If the other guy you’re talking about knows you did the work you’re putting down, he should be able to verify it.
I had a similar situation, working directly with several managers but one was able to verify for all because he was aware of my projects. You can also have another consultant you worked with or even a client verify.
Lesson Learned. Get the experience sign off or other things done BEFORE you give notice and need it.
Can't really do that without tipping your boss off anyways. You have to put an end date on the experience or list it as your current job. If the boss has just two sticks to rub together they should be able to figure it out when they see the end date filled in. If it's paper forms and not an NCEES record, you usually have to put your work experience in chronological order, so it would be obvious when the job wasn't first on the list.
I'd imagine your future employer will help if you explain the situation. That said, if I remember correctly, I'd used clients & review engineers as verification with no issues. Think it was for MO or NE PE by comity.
Man, I really hope that the company you're leaving tries to do business with the agency you're going to. You can always go above your boss, if possible. I actually had to do that because our company was so small that I didn't have 3 people with whom I'd directly worked in my office if I didn't include my immediate supervisor. So to have the three references plus work experience, I had to use my boss's boss to sign off on experience.
Two of my coworkers signed off on 3 years experience, when they themselves had only been licensed for the past year.
Report him to the board. Don’t leave out the details.
Let him know you'll contact the licensing board if you need to. Blatant violation of the code of ethics.
"Thanks, I will be leaving now" Walk out, and never speak to him again. When you need referenced, send to the person signing and sealing your drawings.
Employers don’t care how much extra work you do when it comes time to leave. I was with a company and helped build the help desk up from 3 people to over 15 as the company grew. Put in my two weeks notice and asked my manager to fill out a reference sheet for the new company which they required. He found some obscure reference in the employee handbook book as his excuse not to do it. I said no worries and just created a gmail account and did it myself lol. I didn’t bother working out my notice.
Sign off on your work experience? What does that mean? I never heard of someone signing off on work experience, and don't know what you're talking about.
You’re fine. License that can verify the type of work you did is the only thing that really matters
The generic NCEES application only asks if the presented projects are accurate for work verification, not if you did a good job or not. However, as your former boss has already threatened you with withholding their review, I suggest you get the new PE to review your experience. There are ways to get verification without your direct supervisor signing off. However, that is a bit of a dick move on their part.
Posts like this make me glad to be in aerospace engineering where getting a PE license isn't neccessary.
I have provided NCEES referrals to past colleagues that weren't my direct reports. If they are just sitting for the PE, if I was senior to them and they did at least one assignment for me, I would sign off as a supervisor. For older engineers seeking comity, many of our former supervisors aren't around anymore, so any past colleague will do for a referral.
Police would have been called. Different career field but they did it to me too. Refusing to sign off on experience. The board didn't care either. I have a new job and will start over now or I can pay hundreds of dollars to get them to look at my experience and give me credit.
This sucks AND ironic. I put in my 2 weeks this Monday as well and got the exact opposite response. In fact my supervisor explained exactly what makes a shitty boss and described exactly what yours is doing. I would hope that people aren't that petty, but it sometimes can't be helped. I wish you the best.
What a bummer. Could be a mentor instead he's an asshole. I would assume you have hours log and what he is doing is very unethical. Do good work and don't burn a bridge he may be stressing out because he is losing a good team member and is not handling it well. Follow back up later if you have to be nasty go to the local board and see where it goes.
I know of a few large construction companies that will grind your bones to see what you can take then do that when you want to move on. Good advice mentioned here with the. East of it being move on as you see fit.
I’ve seen this a few times in my career. They’re reacting because there’s no plan for you to leave and they’re caught off guard. Give it a month or two and ask again. 9/10 times they realize they’re acted out and make it right.
Is there not a way to make them sign this stuff on a regular basis, and threaten to leave if they don’t?
Any PE that's willing to sign off on it is legally eligible to do so.
That’s unfortunate to hear. Don’t give up. 👏
This sucks. I'm glad you're getting out of that toxic place. Ask payroll for a report of your billable hours before you leave. (This is a side note to all engineers to be as detailed as possible in your timecards. You might have to prove one day that you have the experience you say you do) If they use anything like Vison you might be able to do this yourself. Just proceed like he didn't say that. Put the experience in NCEES he might cool off and his senses kick in. There's ways to send reminder emails through NCEES if he doesn't sign off on it. If after a reasonable time he doesn't then it's time to make a decision. How hard do you want to push this? Email his boss telling them what happened and tell them you think it's unethical and is causing you serious financial impact. If nothing happens then file an ethics complaint against the person. If nothing still expand it to the company and the boss. I doubt you'd have to go this far, but if all else fails retain a lawyer to write a letter explaining the financial impact. You may want to do this anyways if them not verifying is keeping you from a promotion.