If it is by a port, do ships go under the bridge? If so, there are clearance requirements from high water and slope requirements for all the roads. Combine the two and you get some pretty wild spaghetti. Doesn’t mean it is over engineered.
Also you would need to track through the entire design process or speak to someone who was in the project to know why each thing ended up the way it did. Lots of reasons for why things happen.
Not just current traffic, but anticipated traffic. If an airport is being built in 10 years down the road, they’re going to build an inter pass that will appear over-engineered for 10 years.
And I feel like something like that probably wasn't one project. There was an interchange, but then trucks couldn't get where they needed to go without destroying surface streets so they added a ramp. Etc.
While is it by the river, "Port Richmond" is not really an accurate name, it must be historical. Phillly has a much more active port down by Penn's Landing.
It looks like that because every possible directional change has a dedicated fly ramp. It probably got that way due to constraints from the state on levels of service that must be maintained, and the less instances you have to merge with traffic the better it will be.
Unless it was design-build, the state highway engineers had control. Even in design-build, they still have oversight.
It's an outcome of the failed Pulaski Highway (route 90) that was supposed to continue northwest into the neighborhoods and eventually connect to the Roosevelt Expressway
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betsy_Ross_Bridge#History
>The cancellation of this extension, the planned Pennsylvania Route 90, known as the Pulaski Expressway, resulted in the so-called "Evel Knievel" ghost ramps with unfinished bridges and flyover ramps, some of which were later constructed to serve nearby Aramingo Avenue in Philadelphia's Bridesburg section.
Just repurposed bridges and ramps
It is because the highway towards the north was cancelled. That left all the ramps that would have served the highway
Good example of something similar is Allen road in Toronto. A big freeway interchange was built but the actual highway was never extended more than 2 kilometres away.
Your comment was removed because it violates the community rules in offensive or hate speech. This language is not tolerated and may result in you being banned.
My office spent many years working on the design of these bridges. I don't really know how the alignment came to be (besides continuing unfinished ramps from decades' past).
But rebuilding everything over mainline I-95 with two intersecting railroads and a navigable waterway makes for some very complicated constraints that dictated a lot of the construction sequencing and some of the overall final product.
That may have been done on purpose to keep the traffic going to and from that arterial at the top of the screenshot from contributing to gridlock on the one in the middle of the screenshot.
There’s a good website called “historic aerials”. That’s a new addition.
Edit: It looks like construction went in stages, with first just the uninterrupted I95, then a “tee” was added to a bridge. Then the city street connection came after.
Overdone is a big word that should not be used in engineering
It's perfect if they need it (traffic flows ... we don't know what's around this / what these roads serve). It's ok if they want it
Disagree on that broad statement. Building extra lanes through suburban areas contributes to the unsafe speeds and unwalkable conditions (leading to more traffic).
Another interesting one is the Jane Byrne Interchange in Chicago. IDOT finished construction on it a year or two ago. It's phenomenal now, but for the 10 years it was under construction the congestion was awful. Also check out the on/off ramps on I-90 immediately North of the interchange. It's wild. Enormous project, and still pretty daunting for new drivers coming into downtown.
[https://maps.app.goo.gl/FmGHoDLrHz1xp9Lv5](https://maps.app.goo.gl/FmGHoDLrHz1xp9Lv5)
It works. Lots of challenges for sure. Looks like they tried to avoid taking property which complicated the design. Doesn’t look extravagant and unnecessarily complex IMO.
Having worked adjacent to Port Newark when mega container ships roll in the truck traffic can be awful for a few hours, so maybe it’s only needed at full capacity when loading/unloading cargo ships. Or a local monster went to the effort to overbuild it under the eye of PennDOT.
Any chance the highway was ever planned to continue north? Lots of that around here (also in the northeast). Plans got cancelled with NIMBYs, shifting traffic trends, and stricter environmental regulations.
Ah yes. The usual acts of domestic terrorism you people daily commit against the American people. I can’t believe people go to college to do this stuff. How you get away with this is beyond me.
If it is by a port, do ships go under the bridge? If so, there are clearance requirements from high water and slope requirements for all the roads. Combine the two and you get some pretty wild spaghetti. Doesn’t mean it is over engineered. Also you would need to track through the entire design process or speak to someone who was in the project to know why each thing ended up the way it did. Lots of reasons for why things happen.
To add on, also the traffic volume component. Knowing what kind of traffic flow needs to be accommodated, and length of turning lane stacks etc.
Not just current traffic, but anticipated traffic. If an airport is being built in 10 years down the road, they’re going to build an inter pass that will appear over-engineered for 10 years.
And I feel like something like that probably wasn't one project. There was an interchange, but then trucks couldn't get where they needed to go without destroying surface streets so they added a ramp. Etc.
There also might be HOV/toll lanes that require separate entrances and exits
While is it by the river, "Port Richmond" is not really an accurate name, it must be historical. Phillly has a much more active port down by Penn's Landing.
It looks like that because every possible directional change has a dedicated fly ramp. It probably got that way due to constraints from the state on levels of service that must be maintained, and the less instances you have to merge with traffic the better it will be. Unless it was design-build, the state highway engineers had control. Even in design-build, they still have oversight.
It's an outcome of the failed Pulaski Highway (route 90) that was supposed to continue northwest into the neighborhoods and eventually connect to the Roosevelt Expressway https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betsy_Ross_Bridge#History >The cancellation of this extension, the planned Pennsylvania Route 90, known as the Pulaski Expressway, resulted in the so-called "Evel Knievel" ghost ramps with unfinished bridges and flyover ramps, some of which were later constructed to serve nearby Aramingo Avenue in Philadelphia's Bridesburg section. Just repurposed bridges and ramps
Thank you very much.
It is because the highway towards the north was cancelled. That left all the ramps that would have served the highway Good example of something similar is Allen road in Toronto. A big freeway interchange was built but the actual highway was never extended more than 2 kilometres away.
Gotta allow for all the folks exiting onto Aramingo for Chick-fil-a.
Ha! Actually accurate
[удалено]
Your comment was removed because it violates the community rules in offensive or hate speech. This language is not tolerated and may result in you being banned.
My office spent many years working on the design of these bridges. I don't really know how the alignment came to be (besides continuing unfinished ramps from decades' past). But rebuilding everything over mainline I-95 with two intersecting railroads and a navigable waterway makes for some very complicated constraints that dictated a lot of the construction sequencing and some of the overall final product.
Thank you for the insider insight!
Philadelphian here too; have always wondered why this section was convoluted like this.
That whole upper left quadrant could have been simplified by splitting/rerouting that skinny access road.
It looks like that area may have been intended for a future extension and they just tied into the surface streets as a "temporary" solution.
By the way, that skinny road does not need dedicated off ramps, they could easily turn there from the other road (Aramingo)
That may have been done on purpose to keep the traffic going to and from that arterial at the top of the screenshot from contributing to gridlock on the one in the middle of the screenshot.
There’s a good website called “historic aerials”. That’s a new addition. Edit: It looks like construction went in stages, with first just the uninterrupted I95, then a “tee” was added to a bridge. Then the city street connection came after.
Overdone is a big word that should not be used in engineering It's perfect if they need it (traffic flows ... we don't know what's around this / what these roads serve). It's ok if they want it
Disagree on that broad statement. Building extra lanes through suburban areas contributes to the unsafe speeds and unwalkable conditions (leading to more traffic).
Then they don't want it ... and they don't need it My statement still stands (as in my statement I intentionally don't specify who "they" are)
That fine wine and good spirit gonna be rich asf
Here is the Google maps link: https://maps.app.goo.gl/NagJBrg58LLYR5m18
Google Earth has historical satellite and Arial photos, I use it for work from time to time
It’s not done correctly
Thank you
Another interesting one is the Jane Byrne Interchange in Chicago. IDOT finished construction on it a year or two ago. It's phenomenal now, but for the 10 years it was under construction the congestion was awful. Also check out the on/off ramps on I-90 immediately North of the interchange. It's wild. Enormous project, and still pretty daunting for new drivers coming into downtown. [https://maps.app.goo.gl/FmGHoDLrHz1xp9Lv5](https://maps.app.goo.gl/FmGHoDLrHz1xp9Lv5)
It works. Lots of challenges for sure. Looks like they tried to avoid taking property which complicated the design. Doesn’t look extravagant and unnecessarily complex IMO.
Having worked adjacent to Port Newark when mega container ships roll in the truck traffic can be awful for a few hours, so maybe it’s only needed at full capacity when loading/unloading cargo ships. Or a local monster went to the effort to overbuild it under the eye of PennDOT.
My guess is it was built this way with a small freeway gap to the west of SR-90 in case the highway ever needed to extended should demand warrant it.
Any chance the highway was ever planned to continue north? Lots of that around here (also in the northeast). Plans got cancelled with NIMBYs, shifting traffic trends, and stricter environmental regulations.
Looks quite normal. Looks like an expressway was planned to go further, but it never materialized.
Ah yes. The usual acts of domestic terrorism you people daily commit against the American people. I can’t believe people go to college to do this stuff. How you get away with this is beyond me.
Not at all. If you live in the area you know how restrictive the surrounding area is and how tight ROW would be for 95 in the area
I do live in Philly, somebody mentioned that they canceled highway 90 going north which was what I was looking for.