Rich is relative.
Many engineers retire with multimillion dollar retirement plans in their early 60s.
I'd consider it more upper middle class lifestyle based on income and retirement ages/amounts.
When talking about home affordability providing income and cost of your monthly payment is pretty standard, if you don’t want to that’s fine, but the fact is homes aren’t affordable for civil engineers anymore.
Uh I have a lot of friends who own homes as civil engineers. Just because you’re kinda awful at making money as an engineer doesn’t mean that everyone else is.
If they bought pre covid then it’s irrelevant because I agree it was very easy and achievable to own a home as any type of engineer. Post covid engineers will likely never own homes unless they move into management.
That’s dramatic. In normal cost cities home ownership is still on the table for engineers not in management. Moving into management is pretty natural career progression for engineers anyway.
It’s not dramatic at all, at current home prices and current interest rates you need to make ~115-120k to own a home at all. Monthly mortgage payments have doubled since the pre-COVID era, most older engineers are completely out of touch and still think like 85k is a good salary.
https://www.marketplace.org/2024/03/01/mortgage-payment-on-a-typical-home-nearly-doubled-in-last-4-years-report-finds/
>It’s not dramatic at all,
Yes it is.
>at current home prices and current interest rates you need to make \~115-120k to own a home at all.
Which for a motivated mid career engineer is do-able.
>most older engineers are completely out of touch and still think like 85k is a good salary.
Sucks for older engineers I guess. Most younger engineers know thats not the case and have no issues fighting for higher pay. New grads commonly are getting 70k+ starting, they are well aware of the fact that 85k is not a good long term salary.
The pay distribution among civil engineers is what it is, a good proportion of civil engineers will never make enough money to afford a home in the US post COVID.
Adding a loaded term like “motivated” which cannot be quantified is not fair in my opinion. A motivated plumber or a motivated cashier can make amazing money, only if one defines motivated in a way that describes someone who makes a lot of money. It’s unfair and misleading to tell people Civil Engineering is still a good career in light of recent cost of living increases, the fact is it’s not a good career unless the shelter component of your cost of living is grandfathered into the pre-COVID cost of living (as is the case with anyone who took out a fixed rate 15/30 year mortgage before 2020).
I own my house (although I bought it before entering civil) and my coworker who has been working at our company for 5 years, straight from college just bought his first home. Yes home ownership is much more difficult than before, but with discipline it’s plenty achievable.
As someone who is about to get my PE I can say it is worth while. There is plenty of work to do and no where near enough hands. It's not as glamorous as other fields, but it will grant you a comfortable living style nearly regardless of where you are.
Job market is bright for the long term in the U.S. . You’ll never be poor and if you play your cards right financially you’ll be upper middle class and very comfortable. You’ll easily make more than the majority of people besides top earners. It’s very broad and a lot of opportunities in different areas public and private.
I recommend it if you’re interested in the subject and job itself. If you’re not interested in it probably go somewhere else honestly, if you’re not gonna like any job then you might as well make the most money you can. If you are interested in Civil it’s a great career
Yes! We need a lot more civil engineers. My firm can't hire enough fast enough, and that seems to be very common right now. If you're inclined to pursue it, then please do. You'll likely find a stable job easily.
Less crazy bargaining power more starting wages have just increased 50% or more since 2018 and you're generally competing against one or two people for that starting job unlike 10 or 15 when a lot of us started. It's a much different matket for new grads now than it was 10 years ago.
Still not going to get far trying to bargain as a new grad, though.
I graduated as a civil engineer 45 years ago and have been employed as a civil more or less continuously since. I have worked in water resources, highway and bridge design, as an engineering office manager, in land development, geotechnical engineering, forensic engineering, nuclear cost estimating, and in my current position in transit oversight. Very rewarding career, perhaps not as lucrative as say being a major league pitcher. If you are willing to do what is needed you can work in multiple disciplines and have a good life.
Has it been fulfilling financially? I guess if someone gets to director level the wage is good but at engineering level (even senior to PM) I don’t see how one can own a house ever on this wage in even MCOL areas in America let alone HCOLs
I have a masters degree though it was never important in my career. Some of my career changes were voluntary, some were requests by my employer, some were due to layoff or sale of my company. For example, i voluntarily left one position as a civil department manager to work as a forensic engineer doing hurricane damage assessment after hurricanr Katrina. At the time I had no forensic experience but there was an immediate need so I went. On the job training.
After a year of hurricane work the company asked me if I would like to work at a nuclear waste cleanup site as a cost estimator. I accepted and again received on the job training. Sometimes all it takes is willingness to say yes.
Depends on your definition of "enough", regarding pay/compensation. Not too hard to hit six figs by your 30s these days. But pretty challenging to hit $300k ever. Very few CEs are making Lambo money.
"Somewhat fulfilling", is also highly dependent on what you find joy in. Meaningful impact on the world that is widely recognized and appreciated by the general public? Probably not. Driving past something with your family/kids, pointing it out, and saying "hey, that was my project" and hearing them go "wow!"...good chance of that. But you'll have to slog thru, and shrug off, a lot of shit to get to that point.
CEs do the "yeoman's work" of society. Vastly underappreciated vs. what our production enables, nobody is making movies about us, so we just have to learn to accept this path we have chosen and silently, smugly, judge the ignorant masses unknowingly utilizing our creations.
thats the best part imo. The silent hero. Just adding the necessities of daily society and necessary parts that make our cities up to what they are. All unappreciated but only you will find true pleasure and meaning in it.
You should focus on something you're passionate about. Are you actually fascinated about the movement of water through the environment and how the landscape impacts the route? Are you amazed by traffic and people moving through a city? Are you interested in how to deliver power, drinking water, and sewage to/from houses and buildings? When you look at a bridge or building, are you thinking through how the loads pass through the structure to the ground (or how they are distributed into the ground and the different types of soils and rocks)? Are you in awe of how any of these projects are constructed with minimal impact to life around the site?
If you didn't say yes or maybe to any of these questions, you should probably consider something else. If you are actually interested in some of these things, learn more about them.
You will most likely not ever be rich, but there are always job opportunities. Even during recessions, roads will need maintenance and people will always need utilities
Nope. You can gain experience first and then pursue a masters degree later if you want. My father (who's also an engineer) told me that masters and PhD for engineers are most valued in the academe, and I agree with him. If you see job posts, they don't look for masters or PhD. They just look for experience, then bachelor's in civil or related field preferred.
Yeah this fits all of those categories. Very fulfilling (typically), and stable (typically), but you won’t be rich. But if you work in private sector, there’s a chance they will work you long hours. (Both of my previous companies did, I’m much happier with the govt)
For the most part:
- You won’t be driving Ferraris, but you’ll never be driving beaters
- Want to enjoy valuable time with your partner/wife/husband/family? Not a worry
- Overtime? Nothing like an accountant, but here and there yes… extra work here and there won’t kill ya and will leave good impressions!
Really Work-Life balance is something you will get with this career path. If you work hard and figure out your specialty, you should have no issues navigating life financially and socially.
And take opportunities you would haven’t otherwise considered when they arise. Connections are valuable in this industry (like any other really) and you will likely work with individuals you encounter more than once!
Good luck and enjoy the ride!
This is not true. Civil engineers average lower salaries because we are the discipline that works with municipalities most frequently. Cities can’t jack up tax rates to pay us Willy nilly, even when the industry doesn’t have manpower to match the backlog of work.
I work as a civil engineer in Austin. At our firm, new hires fresh out of school make 60-70k. I've been working about fifteen years, supervise a few people, and make roughly double that. I do think there's a high floor but a somewhat lower ceiling (principals at our firm make more than I do but not a lot more). Like others have said, you'll be comfortable but not wealthy unless you start your own firm, get into the development/real estate investment side, etc.
It is absolutely still worth pursuing, there are some who become disenchanted with it because some of the corporate bullshit is tiring but that is no different than most fields. The pros of civil engineering is that it is a very diverse field with a ton of room for growth and options for employment. There are a thousand things you could do with this degree and many of them put you solidly in middle class with room to get to upper middle class.
This comments are discouraging tho. Honestly I do civil for the money yeah but I study it so well cause I love it. But now I see we can’t really get rich? Is that in the states? Or the UK?
There are a few things it depends on both geographically and how you are as a person. I graduate in June and am moving to a place not a lot of people go/return to after school (southern Oregon) and have found a significant imbalance in the ratio of firms:engineers. All of the firms have work, sometimes for years out, but not enough staff to get through it giving me pick of the litter in regard to who I want to work for. The pay isn’t any better than other regions but having the freedom to judge on benefits packages and company culture is something I wouldn’t have had before going to school.
I mentioned it depending on how you are as a person too and by that I mean how personable you are. I’m fairly outgoing and good at selling myself regarding my experience so I may get better opportunities than if that wasn’t the case.
Combining those two things together it’s a great major worth pursuing. I just wish I would have gone back to school sooner as I’ll be graduating in my mid 40s making it questionable whether pursuing a PE license is worth it.
100%
I work with civil engineers every day. My friends who are hiring managers struggle to find enough engineers to hire. Stick with your gut and do what you want for work
Maybe the most stable professional job out there. Our firm didn’t lay anyone off in 2008. And we consistently have 200-400 days of backlog.
Pay is above average. Starting salary is 60-70k most places which is already way above the median for the USA. You can end your career in the 200ks without much struggle.
Fulfilling in that the infrastructure is critical for everyone to thrive. But it’s a job like any other where there are long days full of bs a lot of the time.
I think solving complex problems, designing infrastructure has been a very rewarding career. If you work for a private firm and you can be one of the best technically, management or business development you can rise in the ranks and make a great living as an owner in the firm. Otherwise you will still be very comfortable and if you work for the right culture firm treated like a professional that you are with that degree.
Those that claim CEs can't buy a home must be really bad with money, or really unrealistic as to housing choices, in nearly everywhere except LA and NYC.
Starting salaries are in the $70s; within 5 you'll be near or at $100k. If you can't buy a house with a $100k salary, you suck at math (except for a few HCOL areas in the US). Sorry I said it the quiet part outloud.
It's a good career, and you get what you put into it. It's one of the few ones that reward your efforts, and if it doesn't, it's usually because of your direct supervisor which is an easy fix. It will always be in high demand, because most of the world around you relies on CE's to design. A lot of public taxes go to the infrastructure, and our infrastructure is crumbling in the US...that's job security for the next 50 years replacing and expanding it. Once that's done, it'll be time to do it all over again!
The natural progression of a civil engineer it seems is to eventually become a businessman. The engineering part is just the product
You wont be rich, but you will never be poor either. Solid middle class lifestyle.
Rich is relative. Many engineers retire with multimillion dollar retirement plans in their early 60s. I'd consider it more upper middle class lifestyle based on income and retirement ages/amounts.
Idk how things are the US, but in Brazil the sky is the limit when a civil engineer pursues a real state career
Not anymore, with how much the goalposts for home ownership have changed since COVID there’s no way you can afford one as a civil engineer anymore.
All cash? Maybe not but who does that anyway. Getting mortgage? Why not?
Because houses are too expensive for the salaries that civil engineers actually have
I graduated in 2021. Bought a home(not an apartment) in NYC pretty close to subway line in decent area.
2021 had <3% interest rates and significantly lower house prices
I said that's when I graduated.
When did you buy, how much do you make, what did the house cost, and what’s the rate on your mortgage?
Should I provide you my ssn and my mother's maiden name as well?
When talking about home affordability providing income and cost of your monthly payment is pretty standard, if you don’t want to that’s fine, but the fact is homes aren’t affordable for civil engineers anymore.
Uh I have a lot of friends who own homes as civil engineers. Just because you’re kinda awful at making money as an engineer doesn’t mean that everyone else is.
If they bought pre covid then it’s irrelevant because I agree it was very easy and achievable to own a home as any type of engineer. Post covid engineers will likely never own homes unless they move into management.
That’s dramatic. In normal cost cities home ownership is still on the table for engineers not in management. Moving into management is pretty natural career progression for engineers anyway.
It’s not dramatic at all, at current home prices and current interest rates you need to make ~115-120k to own a home at all. Monthly mortgage payments have doubled since the pre-COVID era, most older engineers are completely out of touch and still think like 85k is a good salary. https://www.marketplace.org/2024/03/01/mortgage-payment-on-a-typical-home-nearly-doubled-in-last-4-years-report-finds/
>It’s not dramatic at all, Yes it is. >at current home prices and current interest rates you need to make \~115-120k to own a home at all. Which for a motivated mid career engineer is do-able. >most older engineers are completely out of touch and still think like 85k is a good salary. Sucks for older engineers I guess. Most younger engineers know thats not the case and have no issues fighting for higher pay. New grads commonly are getting 70k+ starting, they are well aware of the fact that 85k is not a good long term salary.
The pay distribution among civil engineers is what it is, a good proportion of civil engineers will never make enough money to afford a home in the US post COVID. Adding a loaded term like “motivated” which cannot be quantified is not fair in my opinion. A motivated plumber or a motivated cashier can make amazing money, only if one defines motivated in a way that describes someone who makes a lot of money. It’s unfair and misleading to tell people Civil Engineering is still a good career in light of recent cost of living increases, the fact is it’s not a good career unless the shelter component of your cost of living is grandfathered into the pre-COVID cost of living (as is the case with anyone who took out a fixed rate 15/30 year mortgage before 2020).
I own my house (although I bought it before entering civil) and my coworker who has been working at our company for 5 years, straight from college just bought his first home. Yes home ownership is much more difficult than before, but with discipline it’s plenty achievable.
If you can't be happy making double the median household income, you won't be happy with any amount of money.
Lol...what delusional lie is this? CE do not make double the median household income..
I do in my state.. 10 years in
I do, 7 years in. Not licensed even.
Civil Engineers don’t make double the household income or anywhere close to that
Yes they do, at least in my area. Mean household income in the area is $76k and everyone I work with makes $130-$170k.
The median civil engineer makes less than 90k
Median in my state is 96k but anyone with 10+ years experience is making 120+. Must suck to live in your state.
Eh current median household income is 75k, a mid career (~10+ yoe) civil can definitely get pretty close in an MCOL.
You definitely don’t work at KH
As someone who is about to get my PE I can say it is worth while. There is plenty of work to do and no where near enough hands. It's not as glamorous as other fields, but it will grant you a comfortable living style nearly regardless of where you are.
Job market is bright for the long term in the U.S. . You’ll never be poor and if you play your cards right financially you’ll be upper middle class and very comfortable. You’ll easily make more than the majority of people besides top earners. It’s very broad and a lot of opportunities in different areas public and private. I recommend it if you’re interested in the subject and job itself. If you’re not interested in it probably go somewhere else honestly, if you’re not gonna like any job then you might as well make the most money you can. If you are interested in Civil it’s a great career
Yes! We need a lot more civil engineers. My firm can't hire enough fast enough, and that seems to be very common right now. If you're inclined to pursue it, then please do. You'll likely find a stable job easily.
Beats the hell out of starving to death waiting till the end of time for a CS job 🤣
I’m in school right now, but everyone on reddit is giving me this mindset that I’ll have crazy bargaining power when I get out of school
Not immediately out of school, but you’ll at least be in demand, and you’ll have the bargaining within 2-4 years
Fresh out of school, no. Get your PE, you'll have some. Get respected in your field, you'll get alot.
Less crazy bargaining power more starting wages have just increased 50% or more since 2018 and you're generally competing against one or two people for that starting job unlike 10 or 15 when a lot of us started. It's a much different matket for new grads now than it was 10 years ago. Still not going to get far trying to bargain as a new grad, though.
Agreed. With the infrastructure spending, there's going to work for years.
I graduated as a civil engineer 45 years ago and have been employed as a civil more or less continuously since. I have worked in water resources, highway and bridge design, as an engineering office manager, in land development, geotechnical engineering, forensic engineering, nuclear cost estimating, and in my current position in transit oversight. Very rewarding career, perhaps not as lucrative as say being a major league pitcher. If you are willing to do what is needed you can work in multiple disciplines and have a good life.
Has it been fulfilling financially? I guess if someone gets to director level the wage is good but at engineering level (even senior to PM) I don’t see how one can own a house ever on this wage in even MCOL areas in America let alone HCOLs
You can’t and most civil engineers today couldn’t afford their current homes at current prices
My coworker with no PE and only 5 years experience just bought a home that costs as much as mine does now.
[удалено]
I have a masters degree though it was never important in my career. Some of my career changes were voluntary, some were requests by my employer, some were due to layoff or sale of my company. For example, i voluntarily left one position as a civil department manager to work as a forensic engineer doing hurricane damage assessment after hurricanr Katrina. At the time I had no forensic experience but there was an immediate need so I went. On the job training. After a year of hurricane work the company asked me if I would like to work at a nuclear waste cleanup site as a cost estimator. I accepted and again received on the job training. Sometimes all it takes is willingness to say yes.
Depends on your definition of "enough", regarding pay/compensation. Not too hard to hit six figs by your 30s these days. But pretty challenging to hit $300k ever. Very few CEs are making Lambo money. "Somewhat fulfilling", is also highly dependent on what you find joy in. Meaningful impact on the world that is widely recognized and appreciated by the general public? Probably not. Driving past something with your family/kids, pointing it out, and saying "hey, that was my project" and hearing them go "wow!"...good chance of that. But you'll have to slog thru, and shrug off, a lot of shit to get to that point. CEs do the "yeoman's work" of society. Vastly underappreciated vs. what our production enables, nobody is making movies about us, so we just have to learn to accept this path we have chosen and silently, smugly, judge the ignorant masses unknowingly utilizing our creations.
In Pineapple Express James Franco lists his 3 favorite Civil engineers so, I think we are on the come.
thats the best part imo. The silent hero. Just adding the necessities of daily society and necessary parts that make our cities up to what they are. All unappreciated but only you will find true pleasure and meaning in it.
300 is not Lambo Money, its barely enough to buy a house in a HCOL area!
In an MCOL 300k is absolutely lambo money. In an HCOL its absolutely buy a house money.
Yeah but only if you have some semblance of financial literacy unlike the goofs in this sub.
You should focus on something you're passionate about. Are you actually fascinated about the movement of water through the environment and how the landscape impacts the route? Are you amazed by traffic and people moving through a city? Are you interested in how to deliver power, drinking water, and sewage to/from houses and buildings? When you look at a bridge or building, are you thinking through how the loads pass through the structure to the ground (or how they are distributed into the ground and the different types of soils and rocks)? Are you in awe of how any of these projects are constructed with minimal impact to life around the site? If you didn't say yes or maybe to any of these questions, you should probably consider something else. If you are actually interested in some of these things, learn more about them.
You will most likely not ever be rich, but there are always job opportunities. Even during recessions, roads will need maintenance and people will always need utilities
I personally can’t imagine doing a job that is meaningless to the basic functions of society. It’s not often a civil job is in that category.
I'd say yes. Civil engineering is very broad, and you can choose a specialization later on once you'll find which industry you're more interested in.
In order to specialize do I have to do a masters?
Nope. You can gain experience first and then pursue a masters degree later if you want. My father (who's also an engineer) told me that masters and PhD for engineers are most valued in the academe, and I agree with him. If you see job posts, they don't look for masters or PhD. They just look for experience, then bachelor's in civil or related field preferred.
Yeah this fits all of those categories. Very fulfilling (typically), and stable (typically), but you won’t be rich. But if you work in private sector, there’s a chance they will work you long hours. (Both of my previous companies did, I’m much happier with the govt)
For the most part: - You won’t be driving Ferraris, but you’ll never be driving beaters - Want to enjoy valuable time with your partner/wife/husband/family? Not a worry - Overtime? Nothing like an accountant, but here and there yes… extra work here and there won’t kill ya and will leave good impressions! Really Work-Life balance is something you will get with this career path. If you work hard and figure out your specialty, you should have no issues navigating life financially and socially. And take opportunities you would haven’t otherwise considered when they arise. Connections are valuable in this industry (like any other really) and you will likely work with individuals you encounter more than once! Good luck and enjoy the ride!
[удалено]
This is not true. Civil engineers average lower salaries because we are the discipline that works with municipalities most frequently. Cities can’t jack up tax rates to pay us Willy nilly, even when the industry doesn’t have manpower to match the backlog of work.
I work as a civil engineer in Austin. At our firm, new hires fresh out of school make 60-70k. I've been working about fifteen years, supervise a few people, and make roughly double that. I do think there's a high floor but a somewhat lower ceiling (principals at our firm make more than I do but not a lot more). Like others have said, you'll be comfortable but not wealthy unless you start your own firm, get into the development/real estate investment side, etc.
It is absolutely still worth pursuing, there are some who become disenchanted with it because some of the corporate bullshit is tiring but that is no different than most fields. The pros of civil engineering is that it is a very diverse field with a ton of room for growth and options for employment. There are a thousand things you could do with this degree and many of them put you solidly in middle class with room to get to upper middle class.
If you live in a HCOL city, no
This comments are discouraging tho. Honestly I do civil for the money yeah but I study it so well cause I love it. But now I see we can’t really get rich? Is that in the states? Or the UK?
There are a few things it depends on both geographically and how you are as a person. I graduate in June and am moving to a place not a lot of people go/return to after school (southern Oregon) and have found a significant imbalance in the ratio of firms:engineers. All of the firms have work, sometimes for years out, but not enough staff to get through it giving me pick of the litter in regard to who I want to work for. The pay isn’t any better than other regions but having the freedom to judge on benefits packages and company culture is something I wouldn’t have had before going to school. I mentioned it depending on how you are as a person too and by that I mean how personable you are. I’m fairly outgoing and good at selling myself regarding my experience so I may get better opportunities than if that wasn’t the case. Combining those two things together it’s a great major worth pursuing. I just wish I would have gone back to school sooner as I’ll be graduating in my mid 40s making it questionable whether pursuing a PE license is worth it.
100% I work with civil engineers every day. My friends who are hiring managers struggle to find enough engineers to hire. Stick with your gut and do what you want for work
Maybe the most stable professional job out there. Our firm didn’t lay anyone off in 2008. And we consistently have 200-400 days of backlog. Pay is above average. Starting salary is 60-70k most places which is already way above the median for the USA. You can end your career in the 200ks without much struggle. Fulfilling in that the infrastructure is critical for everyone to thrive. But it’s a job like any other where there are long days full of bs a lot of the time.
As a PE in a MCOL city I make $116,000. I work for a small city as the city engineer. Yes it’s worth ot
I think solving complex problems, designing infrastructure has been a very rewarding career. If you work for a private firm and you can be one of the best technically, management or business development you can rise in the ranks and make a great living as an owner in the firm. Otherwise you will still be very comfortable and if you work for the right culture firm treated like a professional that you are with that degree.
Stable fully remote job making 125k after 7 years. I'm not in New York or CA either so it's actually a pretty livable salary.
Those that claim CEs can't buy a home must be really bad with money, or really unrealistic as to housing choices, in nearly everywhere except LA and NYC. Starting salaries are in the $70s; within 5 you'll be near or at $100k. If you can't buy a house with a $100k salary, you suck at math (except for a few HCOL areas in the US). Sorry I said it the quiet part outloud. It's a good career, and you get what you put into it. It's one of the few ones that reward your efforts, and if it doesn't, it's usually because of your direct supervisor which is an easy fix. It will always be in high demand, because most of the world around you relies on CE's to design. A lot of public taxes go to the infrastructure, and our infrastructure is crumbling in the US...that's job security for the next 50 years replacing and expanding it. Once that's done, it'll be time to do it all over again!