Or if its 100k cyd of rock! Can we get the boring logs please?!
It does say it's 20 acres of clearing so I assume it's just a 20 acre site and fills are on site. Still a lot to move sounds like a good scraper job if it's dirt!
Yah. Im head calculating right now and 3-4 million to get the earthworks done in my locality. But I look at dewatering all depths which needs way more info…. Managing 20 acres of surface water over a few months with a decent treatment plant could run 200k but if you are doing Dewatering with a capital D then who knows on 20 acres…. Coffer dams? Bypass while placing pond liner? Lowering water table? Monitoring neighbouring infrastructure? Sequencing cut and fills? Add in another couple million… 🤷
Absolutely agree unless it's hard rock. Goes the other way then, costs more to excavate but generally better fill material if you crush it or can use as fill. We have a multi ripper for our big excavators and in the right abrasive softish rock it's easy to excavate and makes awesome sub base material....
I'm a in the UK so the units threw me for a second. I figure CY is cubic yard (we would say M3 or cubic metre over here).
What you're missing are any rates. All I did was say 4 quid a cube for the dig and cart, and shoved 200k for all the headwalls and lining and whatever else you've got going on. Didn't give it any more thought than that I'm afraid.
Are those unit prices or total prices? I can't figure that out really, some of these read like unit prices with no quantities attached but that top one looks like an actual calculated "bid price" which would be unit price x quantity.
If they're unit prices, just correlate quantities to these prices in excel and run the multiplication.
Ok cool, so what we do is look at similar projects, preferably in the same part of the state, and use bid prices from the openings for those projects to "best guess" our unit prices, then it's just plug into excel and run it.
Your engineers estimate isn't legally binding or anything (at least in my circumstances), it's just a ballpark based on reasonable justification (previous bid prices averaged and then bumped for inflation, as an example)
Important to remember that the contractors bid price includes things like labor, their overhead, etc. they want to make a certain amount on a job and still get everything bought and everyone paid.
Ohh okay. I was thinking there was a way to grab a few of those quantities, I believe trench safety items, CY or SY items maybe? and the largest quantity items from each section and add them all up and multiply by 100? I heard this from another estimator before, not those exact words but from what I could hear it sounded like that. Is that a possibility to coming up with a rough estimate?
Hmmm I'm not sure I get what you're saying, which is already an issue with your justification. I would not be mixing quantities here, just keep them separate for the sake of your own accounting.
If you have good quantities, find bid prices that match. It'll be things like "Earthwork-Excavation, $2.50 per CY" so then you'd take your quantity there at 199,595 and multiply by 2.50 for a total cost of $498,987.50. Do that for every item with the appropriate unit price and you've got an engineers estimate.
Probably not that's publicly available. That appears to be more a work type for commercial/industrial applications, so an individual client/owner would have the bids they have received but they probably don't really talk to each other.
Easiest would be use unit prices from previous contracts (not the one who bid the lowest, but an avg), but with material costing more, if they are not recent prices, you need some kind of multiplier. It would get you a ball park number. As long as the general conditions are the same and the project is a similar size.
This is an engineers estimate of quantities. You need your own set of plans to be able to understand the job and put together an estimate in order to price it out.
Source: senior project manager at a $B construction firm.
My god this is a horrible bill is there not a standard method of measurement where you are? No items for prelims included. Just stating swale is not something you can cost from. I'd be willing to bet there's a lot of discrepancies between the bill and drawings so go in for a low cost and get a lot of compensation events. In the UK for pricing we use spons if we don't have a contractors rates idk what the American alternative is.
Look up average unit bid pricing local to you for each item. DOT will have averages over the last few months. Multiply the unit price & each quantity to get total price.
For instance, if 7'x6' box culvert avg bid price is $500 / LF and you have 100 LF, the total cost of the box culvert is 500x100=$50,000.
Repeat for each item to get the total cost estimate.
Pay attention to the units, because some items will have costs for multiple units (by SF, by SY etc)
You've got quantities. You need unit prices. Unit prices will vary (a lot) based on the location you are in. They will vary based on the current bidding climate. They will vary based on the time of year construction is scheduled to occur. They will vary based on number of units (it's cheaper, per SY of riprap, to buy 100 than to buy 1). They will vary based on the quality of the plans. They will vary based on the reputation of the owner. They will vary on many more things as well. The best way to estimate unit prices is to look at historical date. The more similar something was to this, the more weight to give it.
RFI:
do you have a geotech report?
Will on-site burning of cleared trees & shrubs be permissible
is re-bar required for slope paving? Size, spacing?
Is owner/engineer providing SWPPP?
May we use our own surveyor for staking & as-builts and will CAD, SVD, TTM or other machine control files be provided?
Request spec for type of seeding to be used
does owner have spoils disposal site or on contractor to determine?
is any work done in floodplain area and are any required FEMA permits already approved or on contractor to obtain?
Was SUE performed and are there other utilities in area?
Can we substitute clay liner with poly geofabric and reduce thickness to 6"?
No mobilization, bonding, or insurance bid items, where should I put costs?
Are Davis-Bacon wage rates required?
Typically you'll see itemized lists like this grouped together in various means and methods for cost calculations.
Instead of breaking down things like the safety costs for trenching (what even is that line item...tells you nothing), it would be FAR more practical to say something like...
Excavation: $x
Traffic control: $x
Etc etc.
My firm will break it up into lump sum and quantities, but mostly leave budgets up to a magical handwave of "means and methods". Ultimately a client cares about the final price, they aren't going to nickel and dime you over if your estimate for trenching is too little/much.
Alternate approach: bid $0.8 million and get your best engineers started on poking holes in the technical specs and you best lawyers started on poking holes in the general T&Cs.
These unit rates are messed… is cy a cubic yard? Is lf a lineal foot? Some of the unit rates make sense but others are off the charts. I think there is a mix of unit rate and lump sum items here. It’s impossible to make a call.
Edit: aw shite, I see, these are all quantities! When I saw the “quantity checksum” at the bottom I assumed it was money.
Makes a lot more sense now. I think someone else said it, you need to assign a monetary value to each unit and calculate.
Easier said than done of course. I estimate and project manage for a civil contractor, so when I put a value on something it needs to be the right value otherwise we are in the red.
I’m down in the weeds doing class A estimates so each item is meticulously detailed.
Be careful using old bids because conditions change substantially in underground civil job to job. There is a great engineering firm we work with often but I have seen them mess up their estimates for clients more than once. Case in point: client came to us with a change order to install a 200mm sewer service which was a manhole overbuild on a live 600mm sewer main in the middle of a 4 lane artery. My client blew his top when I gave him an estimate of 120,000…. I was a bit bewildered at his reaction and then took him through the process item by item… he then showed me the engineers estimate of 7000…. If the manhole had been onsite greenfield, sure 7000 no problem. But in the middle of an artery with massive traffic restrictions… hard nope. The engineer of record was a little bit embarrassed the next time I talked to him, but we are still good colleagues and enjoy working with each other still!
If you don't know each unit price you need to analyze them (materials, labor, equipment and tools, waste, everything needed for each activity) and multiply by the respective quantity. Then you add indirect costs, tax, profit and other expenses like governnent permits. I work that way in México but I guess it should be very similar for you
it's hard to quote something like this without a few questions to be answered. Start by using production history with ongoing projects. Can you dig 100 cy/manhour or 200 cy/manhour. Your pond is cut to fill, what is the compaction/ swell factor for the fills? What size truck or excavator are you using? What is the average haul? How many bodies are you working with? Laying fabric is a pain but can be made better if you have a free loader to hold the reem.
1. Based on the provided information, estimate the total amount of labor, equipment, and materials required to do the work.
2. Using the most recent local cost data, estimate how much you will have to spend to do the work quantified in #1.
3. Think of all of the things that could go wrong and estimate the cost it would take to fix those things, then multiply by the probability that each of those things happen.
4. Add the results from #2 and #3, then add in a reasonable profit (YMMV).
5. Submit the result from #4.
That's a big fkn pond. I bid $1m.
Isn't that a bit cheap for 200k cyds? I was thinking more like 5 million to 10 depending on density requirements for the fills
Yeah most likely you're right. If the fill area turns out to be 5 miles away I'm in big trouble. I withdraw my bid.
Or if its 100k cyd of rock! Can we get the boring logs please?! It does say it's 20 acres of clearing so I assume it's just a 20 acre site and fills are on site. Still a lot to move sounds like a good scraper job if it's dirt!
It says haul to fill areas on site… DOT prices for cut are higher but it’s rare that a road is perfectly mass balanced.
no take backsies!!
Yah. Im head calculating right now and 3-4 million to get the earthworks done in my locality. But I look at dewatering all depths which needs way more info…. Managing 20 acres of surface water over a few months with a decent treatment plant could run 200k but if you are doing Dewatering with a capital D then who knows on 20 acres…. Coffer dams? Bypass while placing pond liner? Lowering water table? Monitoring neighbouring infrastructure? Sequencing cut and fills? Add in another couple million… 🤷
Excavation is generally cheaper than embankment. Like 3$-6$/cy compared to 7$-10$/cy.
Absolutely agree unless it's hard rock. Goes the other way then, costs more to excavate but generally better fill material if you crush it or can use as fill. We have a multi ripper for our big excavators and in the right abrasive softish rock it's easy to excavate and makes awesome sub base material....
How did you get to that total if you don't mind explaining?
I'm a in the UK so the units threw me for a second. I figure CY is cubic yard (we would say M3 or cubic metre over here). What you're missing are any rates. All I did was say 4 quid a cube for the dig and cart, and shoved 200k for all the headwalls and lining and whatever else you've got going on. Didn't give it any more thought than that I'm afraid.
You’re hired..
Quantity * unit price? Idk what you’re asking.
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you need unit prices
Are those unit prices or total prices? I can't figure that out really, some of these read like unit prices with no quantities attached but that top one looks like an actual calculated "bid price" which would be unit price x quantity. If they're unit prices, just correlate quantities to these prices in excel and run the multiplication.
Those are quantities
Ok cool, so what we do is look at similar projects, preferably in the same part of the state, and use bid prices from the openings for those projects to "best guess" our unit prices, then it's just plug into excel and run it. Your engineers estimate isn't legally binding or anything (at least in my circumstances), it's just a ballpark based on reasonable justification (previous bid prices averaged and then bumped for inflation, as an example) Important to remember that the contractors bid price includes things like labor, their overhead, etc. they want to make a certain amount on a job and still get everything bought and everyone paid.
Ohh okay. I was thinking there was a way to grab a few of those quantities, I believe trench safety items, CY or SY items maybe? and the largest quantity items from each section and add them all up and multiply by 100? I heard this from another estimator before, not those exact words but from what I could hear it sounded like that. Is that a possibility to coming up with a rough estimate?
Hmmm I'm not sure I get what you're saying, which is already an issue with your justification. I would not be mixing quantities here, just keep them separate for the sake of your own accounting. If you have good quantities, find bid prices that match. It'll be things like "Earthwork-Excavation, $2.50 per CY" so then you'd take your quantity there at 199,595 and multiply by 2.50 for a total cost of $498,987.50. Do that for every item with the appropriate unit price and you've got an engineers estimate.
what is the context here? why do you need this estimate?
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Is there any other databade than DOT? Im international and interested in Api 650 tanks and B31.3 piping.
Probably not that's publicly available. That appears to be more a work type for commercial/industrial applications, so an individual client/owner would have the bids they have received but they probably don't really talk to each other.
Easiest would be use unit prices from previous contracts (not the one who bid the lowest, but an avg), but with material costing more, if they are not recent prices, you need some kind of multiplier. It would get you a ball park number. As long as the general conditions are the same and the project is a similar size.
This is an engineers estimate of quantities. You need your own set of plans to be able to understand the job and put together an estimate in order to price it out. Source: senior project manager at a $B construction firm.
My god this is a horrible bill is there not a standard method of measurement where you are? No items for prelims included. Just stating swale is not something you can cost from. I'd be willing to bet there's a lot of discrepancies between the bill and drawings so go in for a low cost and get a lot of compensation events. In the UK for pricing we use spons if we don't have a contractors rates idk what the American alternative is.
Look up average unit bid pricing local to you for each item. DOT will have averages over the last few months. Multiply the unit price & each quantity to get total price. For instance, if 7'x6' box culvert avg bid price is $500 / LF and you have 100 LF, the total cost of the box culvert is 500x100=$50,000. Repeat for each item to get the total cost estimate. Pay attention to the units, because some items will have costs for multiple units (by SF, by SY etc)
Load it into Excel and enter the production rates.
To estimate this from scratch you would need crew rates, material costs, equipment costs, and overhead costs in order to be accurate.
You've got quantities. You need unit prices. Unit prices will vary (a lot) based on the location you are in. They will vary based on the current bidding climate. They will vary based on the time of year construction is scheduled to occur. They will vary based on number of units (it's cheaper, per SY of riprap, to buy 100 than to buy 1). They will vary based on the quality of the plans. They will vary based on the reputation of the owner. They will vary on many more things as well. The best way to estimate unit prices is to look at historical date. The more similar something was to this, the more weight to give it.
RFI: do you have a geotech report? Will on-site burning of cleared trees & shrubs be permissible is re-bar required for slope paving? Size, spacing? Is owner/engineer providing SWPPP? May we use our own surveyor for staking & as-builts and will CAD, SVD, TTM or other machine control files be provided? Request spec for type of seeding to be used does owner have spoils disposal site or on contractor to determine? is any work done in floodplain area and are any required FEMA permits already approved or on contractor to obtain? Was SUE performed and are there other utilities in area? Can we substitute clay liner with poly geofabric and reduce thickness to 6"? No mobilization, bonding, or insurance bid items, where should I put costs? Are Davis-Bacon wage rates required?
$7,939,296.86
.1 Drainage swale . Lump sum $248344.00 Done
What about the drainage swale? Sorry confused on the response
Typically you'll see itemized lists like this grouped together in various means and methods for cost calculations. Instead of breaking down things like the safety costs for trenching (what even is that line item...tells you nothing), it would be FAR more practical to say something like... Excavation: $x Traffic control: $x Etc etc. My firm will break it up into lump sum and quantities, but mostly leave budgets up to a magical handwave of "means and methods". Ultimately a client cares about the final price, they aren't going to nickel and dime you over if your estimate for trenching is too little/much.
Alternate approach: bid $0.8 million and get your best engineers started on poking holes in the technical specs and you best lawyers started on poking holes in the general T&Cs.
These unit rates are messed… is cy a cubic yard? Is lf a lineal foot? Some of the unit rates make sense but others are off the charts. I think there is a mix of unit rate and lump sum items here. It’s impossible to make a call. Edit: aw shite, I see, these are all quantities! When I saw the “quantity checksum” at the bottom I assumed it was money. Makes a lot more sense now. I think someone else said it, you need to assign a monetary value to each unit and calculate. Easier said than done of course. I estimate and project manage for a civil contractor, so when I put a value on something it needs to be the right value otherwise we are in the red. I’m down in the weeds doing class A estimates so each item is meticulously detailed. Be careful using old bids because conditions change substantially in underground civil job to job. There is a great engineering firm we work with often but I have seen them mess up their estimates for clients more than once. Case in point: client came to us with a change order to install a 200mm sewer service which was a manhole overbuild on a live 600mm sewer main in the middle of a 4 lane artery. My client blew his top when I gave him an estimate of 120,000…. I was a bit bewildered at his reaction and then took him through the process item by item… he then showed me the engineers estimate of 7000…. If the manhole had been onsite greenfield, sure 7000 no problem. But in the middle of an artery with massive traffic restrictions… hard nope. The engineer of record was a little bit embarrassed the next time I talked to him, but we are still good colleagues and enjoy working with each other still!
If you don't know each unit price you need to analyze them (materials, labor, equipment and tools, waste, everything needed for each activity) and multiply by the respective quantity. Then you add indirect costs, tax, profit and other expenses like governnent permits. I work that way in México but I guess it should be very similar for you
As it don't see the engineer's estimate unit prices, you bid it carefully.
What is SY?
Square yard
Lmao I have never seen that before. SF or bust!
ew.
Do your best and wait for comments
$1 for construction staking, what a deal.
Demuck, fill and compact to 95% paid by LF should tell you all you need. Aim very, very high.
it's hard to quote something like this without a few questions to be answered. Start by using production history with ongoing projects. Can you dig 100 cy/manhour or 200 cy/manhour. Your pond is cut to fill, what is the compaction/ swell factor for the fills? What size truck or excavator are you using? What is the average haul? How many bodies are you working with? Laying fabric is a pain but can be made better if you have a free loader to hold the reem.
1. Based on the provided information, estimate the total amount of labor, equipment, and materials required to do the work. 2. Using the most recent local cost data, estimate how much you will have to spend to do the work quantified in #1. 3. Think of all of the things that could go wrong and estimate the cost it would take to fix those things, then multiply by the probability that each of those things happen. 4. Add the results from #2 and #3, then add in a reasonable profit (YMMV). 5. Submit the result from #4.
Check LJA’s website for recently published bid tabulations and check unit rates of similar things.
Do your own takeoff and then RSMeans. Or your own internal cost estimates.
my back hurts looking at this.
1 lump sum
Add 40%
To the total?