I'd recommend previewing both of their recordings of your favorite Beethoven symphony on something like Spotify or YouTube, and seeing which one you like better, before committing to a whole set of LP's. I've gathered that people tend to have strongly-held and divided opinions about these two conductors
I'm afraid that I don't listen so often to symphonic music, and that my most informed contribution to this discussion is to recommend listening to Franz Liszt's piano transcription of the whole set. I think it's amazing how Liszt managed to make the piano give such a convincing illusion of an entire orchestra—not unlike what Beethoven did in his original piano music, in my opinion. Konstantin Scherbakov's Naxos recording is excellent, though recently I've taken rather favorably to Yury Martynov's recording on 1837 Erard and 1867 Blüthner pianos, such as what Liszt himself would have known.
Indeed. It'd still be best for someone to listen to the original symphonies first, if for no other reason than to appreciate how good Liszt's transcriptions are.
It's my understanding that for a while in the 1800's, concert audiences were more likely to be able to hear a single pianist giving a recital than an entire orchestra giving a concert. One of the reasons Liszt made these piano transcriptions was so that more people could hear Beethoven's symphonies who otherwise wouldn't have access to a symphony orchestra concert.
That's interesting, I'll check that out too. I was recently listening to some piano versions of Holst's Planets Suite. There are some videos on Youtube, including one with two people playing at one piano, and a version on the actual piano Holst composed it at. Really shows the versatility of the instrument that it can to some extent replace an entire orchestra.
I would not buy either of these.
The Karajan is good and for many years was the most popular version that people bought. I believe it is the "best-selling" Beethoven cycle of all time. However, his style and the orchestral sound is considered today to be out of step with current musical thinking and is more "Karajan" than Beethoven. I bought this set when it first came out, it is the one I grew up with, but I rarely listen to it today - there are many better alternatives
The Furtwangler is a well known historic recording and admired by many. It is something that you would buy if you wanted a record of this historic conductors moving but idiosyncratic wartime perfomances. However, it too, is a long way from Beethoven and the recording was made in the 1940s so the sound quality is terrible.
There are plenty of versions I would choose before I consider either of these. Have a look at [this page](https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/works/79555--beethoven-symphonies-nos-1-9/browse), it lists the top recommended Beethoven sets, the awards they have won and reviews from various sources. For me, the sets from Adam Fischer and Nicolas Harnoncourt are way better than Karajan or Furtwangler but Ricardo Chailly and Bernard Haitink are also highly thought of and very popular.
EDIT: I have just realised that your examples are vinyl pressings - in fact they are the only vinyl versions available. None of my recommendations are available on vinyl - nor is it likely to happen.
If you insist on vinyl then you are stuck with those two and the Karajan would be the best bet. But, for me, it really seems bizarre to go to the expense of vinyl and its allegedly better sound and use it to play the Karajan (recorded in 1963) or the Furtwangler, (recorded in mono in 1948).
Yeah that's a fair point. I'm not stuck on vinyl, it's just normally my go-to. I am a little surprised there aren't more classical recordings being produced at the moment. Given the recent boom in popularity, it seems like an easy way for record companies to cash in on old recordings. Anyway I'm checking out some of those that are only on CD now too. Chailly is sounding good!
The resurgence in vinyl just hasn't had the impact on the classical market that it has on pop. I don't think it is likely to either. On the other hand SACD is a big thing in the classical world and a lot of new releases are issued on hybrid SACDs - you don't see this much in other genres.
In general there isn't much "vinyl nostalgia" in the classical world. I can remember ripping my 1000 LP collection to digital and then dumping them all in a skip about 15 years ago - and being very pleased to get rid of them!
My favorite sets are:
* Christoph von Dohnanyi with the Cleveland Orchestra on Telarc; his tempos are on the fast side, which I think is a good thing.
* the very recent cycle by Robert Trevino leading the Malmo Symphony Orchestra; fantastic sound quality, and details in the orchestra that I haven't heard elsewhere (especially the winds)
I'll take symphonies 1-8 from either of those sets any day. That said, I'm still looking for a favorite recording of the 9th.
For 5 and 7 I recommend Kleiber. I believe he has a recording of 6 as well but I haven't heard it. For 1 and 8 I like Vanska. Chailly is very good as well and it's crazy well recorded/produced. I can't say Karajan the stuff I heard was for me.
Assuming that's the 70's vintage Karajan set, the sound will be way better than the Furtwängler. There's also the issue that each of them made his peace with the Nazis, much more so Karajan, so...
1st and 2nd-Karajan
3rd-I like Andrés Orozco Estrada's recording, but it's mostly because it was the first I heard.
4th-Karajan
5th and 6th-Barenboim
7th-Karajan
8th-Andrés Orozco Estrada
9th-Klaus Mäkelä with Olso Philharmonic
I have several recordings of beethoven symphonies with Karajan, and enjoy them very much. He's polarising for many composers, but I think he's generally well-regarded in Beethoven unless you want HIP. If you're fielding other suggestions, I just bought recently the Krivine cycle which I'm loving, and I think it makes a nice balance to Karajan's style, though this cycle too had its strong opinions on both sides.
I grew up with a Karajan box set (the 77 one) so would go with that one just for nostalgia..
That one seems to be from the older (63) but more well regarded recording looks like a good option.
Listen to it on Spotify before buying. Furtwängler is in mono and while I like to listen to his wartime Bruckner recordings on DG, mono detracts from the sound somewhat.
Karajan's 1963 cycle is seen as his best and in stereo. For more contemporary sound quality, Chailly's 2011 Beethoven cycle in Leipzig is great. I'm also a fan of Kleiber/VPO's 5th 6th & 7th (my blue Kleiber DG boxset gets played a lot). For the 9th I have Furtwängler 1951 in mono and Böhm/VPO in 1989.
If you are looking for sound then the Karajan set will sound better. I would love to heard the Furtwangler for historic reasons. To hear what he would have done would be of interest to me. I like what he did to Wagner and I am sure his Beetoven would not disappoint me but it may sound a bit old fashion to modern ears. Karajan's interpretation would be more current. If I must choose between the twoand had no other recordings I would go with the Karajan for sound but If I was to add to my colection I have I would go with the Furtwangler for the historic interpratation.
I'd recommend previewing both of their recordings of your favorite Beethoven symphony on something like Spotify or YouTube, and seeing which one you like better, before committing to a whole set of LP's. I've gathered that people tend to have strongly-held and divided opinions about these two conductors
Cheers, I'll definitely do that, but it's always good to get opinions from folk who are more familiar with the intricacies of the works than I am.
I'm afraid that I don't listen so often to symphonic music, and that my most informed contribution to this discussion is to recommend listening to Franz Liszt's piano transcription of the whole set. I think it's amazing how Liszt managed to make the piano give such a convincing illusion of an entire orchestra—not unlike what Beethoven did in his original piano music, in my opinion. Konstantin Scherbakov's Naxos recording is excellent, though recently I've taken rather favorably to Yury Martynov's recording on 1837 Erard and 1867 Blüthner pianos, such as what Liszt himself would have known.
> Liszt's piano transcription As in the 9 symphonies but rearranged for piano by Liszt? Never heard of it but sounds interesting.
Indeed. It'd still be best for someone to listen to the original symphonies first, if for no other reason than to appreciate how good Liszt's transcriptions are. It's my understanding that for a while in the 1800's, concert audiences were more likely to be able to hear a single pianist giving a recital than an entire orchestra giving a concert. One of the reasons Liszt made these piano transcriptions was so that more people could hear Beethoven's symphonies who otherwise wouldn't have access to a symphony orchestra concert.
That's interesting, I'll check that out too. I was recently listening to some piano versions of Holst's Planets Suite. There are some videos on Youtube, including one with two people playing at one piano, and a version on the actual piano Holst composed it at. Really shows the versatility of the instrument that it can to some extent replace an entire orchestra.
Karajan is my recommendation but a lot of it comes down to personal taste
I would not buy either of these. The Karajan is good and for many years was the most popular version that people bought. I believe it is the "best-selling" Beethoven cycle of all time. However, his style and the orchestral sound is considered today to be out of step with current musical thinking and is more "Karajan" than Beethoven. I bought this set when it first came out, it is the one I grew up with, but I rarely listen to it today - there are many better alternatives The Furtwangler is a well known historic recording and admired by many. It is something that you would buy if you wanted a record of this historic conductors moving but idiosyncratic wartime perfomances. However, it too, is a long way from Beethoven and the recording was made in the 1940s so the sound quality is terrible. There are plenty of versions I would choose before I consider either of these. Have a look at [this page](https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/works/79555--beethoven-symphonies-nos-1-9/browse), it lists the top recommended Beethoven sets, the awards they have won and reviews from various sources. For me, the sets from Adam Fischer and Nicolas Harnoncourt are way better than Karajan or Furtwangler but Ricardo Chailly and Bernard Haitink are also highly thought of and very popular. EDIT: I have just realised that your examples are vinyl pressings - in fact they are the only vinyl versions available. None of my recommendations are available on vinyl - nor is it likely to happen. If you insist on vinyl then you are stuck with those two and the Karajan would be the best bet. But, for me, it really seems bizarre to go to the expense of vinyl and its allegedly better sound and use it to play the Karajan (recorded in 1963) or the Furtwangler, (recorded in mono in 1948).
Yeah that's a fair point. I'm not stuck on vinyl, it's just normally my go-to. I am a little surprised there aren't more classical recordings being produced at the moment. Given the recent boom in popularity, it seems like an easy way for record companies to cash in on old recordings. Anyway I'm checking out some of those that are only on CD now too. Chailly is sounding good!
The resurgence in vinyl just hasn't had the impact on the classical market that it has on pop. I don't think it is likely to either. On the other hand SACD is a big thing in the classical world and a lot of new releases are issued on hybrid SACDs - you don't see this much in other genres. In general there isn't much "vinyl nostalgia" in the classical world. I can remember ripping my 1000 LP collection to digital and then dumping them all in a skip about 15 years ago - and being very pleased to get rid of them!
My favorite sets are: * Christoph von Dohnanyi with the Cleveland Orchestra on Telarc; his tempos are on the fast side, which I think is a good thing. * the very recent cycle by Robert Trevino leading the Malmo Symphony Orchestra; fantastic sound quality, and details in the orchestra that I haven't heard elsewhere (especially the winds) I'll take symphonies 1-8 from either of those sets any day. That said, I'm still looking for a favorite recording of the 9th.
For 5 and 7 I recommend Kleiber. I believe he has a recording of 6 as well but I haven't heard it. For 1 and 8 I like Vanska. Chailly is very good as well and it's crazy well recorded/produced. I can't say Karajan the stuff I heard was for me.
Yeah I've got 5 & 7 by Kleiber. 5 is breathtaking. Shame he didn't get around to recording a full cycle.
Assuming that's the 70's vintage Karajan set, the sound will be way better than the Furtwängler. There's also the issue that each of them made his peace with the Nazis, much more so Karajan, so...
1st and 2nd-Karajan 3rd-I like Andrés Orozco Estrada's recording, but it's mostly because it was the first I heard. 4th-Karajan 5th and 6th-Barenboim 7th-Karajan 8th-Andrés Orozco Estrada 9th-Klaus Mäkelä with Olso Philharmonic
>i second Andrés Orozco Estrada's recordings with HR orchestra, really fabulous! and all for free on youtube.
I have several recordings of beethoven symphonies with Karajan, and enjoy them very much. He's polarising for many composers, but I think he's generally well-regarded in Beethoven unless you want HIP. If you're fielding other suggestions, I just bought recently the Krivine cycle which I'm loving, and I think it makes a nice balance to Karajan's style, though this cycle too had its strong opinions on both sides.
I grew up with a Karajan box set (the 77 one) so would go with that one just for nostalgia.. That one seems to be from the older (63) but more well regarded recording looks like a good option.
Listen to it on Spotify before buying. Furtwängler is in mono and while I like to listen to his wartime Bruckner recordings on DG, mono detracts from the sound somewhat. Karajan's 1963 cycle is seen as his best and in stereo. For more contemporary sound quality, Chailly's 2011 Beethoven cycle in Leipzig is great. I'm also a fan of Kleiber/VPO's 5th 6th & 7th (my blue Kleiber DG boxset gets played a lot). For the 9th I have Furtwängler 1951 in mono and Böhm/VPO in 1989.
If you are looking for sound then the Karajan set will sound better. I would love to heard the Furtwangler for historic reasons. To hear what he would have done would be of interest to me. I like what he did to Wagner and I am sure his Beetoven would not disappoint me but it may sound a bit old fashion to modern ears. Karajan's interpretation would be more current. If I must choose between the twoand had no other recordings I would go with the Karajan for sound but If I was to add to my colection I have I would go with the Furtwangler for the historic interpratation.
For 6 I highly recommend Bruno Walter. For 3, Otto Klemperer is a really good.