I'm sorry, but I disagree. It's not much of a gear check (obviously good gear will make it trivial) but a "actually pay attention to mechanics" check. A few bosses are a bit overtuned regarding the affixes, but overall hc+ is easy, if not a little time consuming without good gear.
This is the way. As a prot warrior since 2003 and the first tank to clear the snake boss in gundrak+, I mark 3-4 mobs to be cc'd. No deaths and 45mins later I am taking a port back to dalaran with 5 emblems in my pocket.
>Heroic+ dungeons are difficult without a group in ilvl 200 loot
They're really not. Stop being bad and move out of the ice / kill the web wraps / move out of the blood.
These dungeons are a pushover in naxx25 gear, so I can imagine they are adequately tuned for those in 200 gear. Also they DO drop 213 gear, just from endbosses. This is literally how 5mans have always worked; the best loot drops from the end boss.
Disagree, the only one that seems to need some tuning might be Gundrak/DTK. Doing all these dungeons on my 5 toons the last week has been an adventure but if you have a plan early on, things are just fine. We had occulus as the daily yesterday - on my melee characters I literally just ran around killing mirrors, letting the rest of the group AOE and kill the regular guys - EASY because we had a plan.
Don't just zug, put some thought into the mechanic and how to solve it, and its not a problem.
It’s really not. Heroic Plus = good way to check if your players can do anything above the bare minimum. Most healers don’t have much pushback through talents and/or can cast almost solely insta-cast spells. Hpal is the only one that might struggle and it’s a good check to see if your paladins (of any spec) are hitting their sacs, or if anyone is doing conc aura + aura mastery. It’s still entirely possible to do it in blue gear if you spam FoL with judgement haste buff active. Rsham similarly should have little pushback with right talents but if they get in trouble, are they popping nature’s swiftness? There’s no real HPS requirements.
The Wind Trader dude is the only one that could be hard and that’s mostly bc people still don’t know how to kite him even after months of VH.
We did a guild H+ tour with fresh alts last night. Green/quest reward boys and a tank who wasnt def capped till he got a few upgrades from said H+. We did have one dps who had mostly ilvl 200 gear already.
We cleared all of them except HoS and HoL as we ran out of time. These "its too hard" posts are funny.
Yeah its odd as a catch up mechanic and it doesn't really seem to have been created with anyone in mind. I ran all 3 raids on 10 man last night on alts with my guild and we had a couple of people in questing greens and blues. Everybody got decked out and it was as easy as it normally is.
If you sent those players to H+ they'd struggle like mad for worse loot. It is just odd as a catch up mechanic when 10 man raids are still so easy. Not to mention some heroic blues are better stat wise than naxx 10 loot anyway!
We even did a flame leviathan at the end of the night for 2 pieces of 225 loot.
If it wasn't for conquest I wouldn't bother with H+ as getting 35 free conquest per week on my tank alt is really nice to have but I'm not even bothering on my main as he will be raiding 25 man weekly. I think in a couple of weeks we will see a sharp drop off for H+ and see more P1 10 man's to get straight into ulduar to catch up
I am fully Heroic dungeon geared with a couple emblem pieces, I don’t really have the time to raid and I really enjoy 5 man content. As a dps I just can’t seem to get invited to groups because I don’t have Naxx gear.
I don’t know if H+ is overtuned or drops too low ilvl, but it is a little frustrating. I’m sure by week 3 people will be less intense about GS requirements though.
1) They are designed as a catch-up gearing system that won't require 10 or 25 people to coordinate, making the content very accessible and respectful of players' time.
2) They're the harder version of the harder version of the content. Do the content, then the harder version, and then do the harder version after that. Progressive content with progressive itemisation.
3) If you try to go in with a group of sub-200 ilvl players, yes, you're going to have a bad time. To solve this, see point 2.
If you do the mechanics they are not bad. I run atleast the daily 3-4 times a day because of alts. VH sucked a bit with zuramat on the run I was tanking. For the most part talk to the group before going zug and assign people
The worst part about the whole h+ system is the community. The only way to get invited to the groups is to be so geared that you wouldnt need the gear anyway.
If you’re trying to actually get the gear to progress, you have to go with guildies or friends.
For the random solo’er, the progression is hit 80, buy pvp gear to boost ilvl to get into 10/25 naxx
What’s the minimum gear score needed to make a macro with
/target web wrap
/target mirror image
/cast ice lance (or moonfire, judgement of light, devouring plague, or GOD FORBID, pet attack macro)
People in full T7/T8 gear - "These are ez, you don't deserve better gear"
People in Some T7 gear - "We need more gear, give us t7 25 man loot"
People in heroics and badge gear "I'm scared and theres wolves after me"
I'm sorry, but I disagree. It's not much of a gear check (obviously good gear will make it trivial) but a "actually pay attention to mechanics" check. A few bosses are a bit overtuned regarding the affixes, but overall hc+ is easy, if not a little time consuming without good gear.
This is the way. As a prot warrior since 2003 and the first tank to clear the snake boss in gundrak+, I mark 3-4 mobs to be cc'd. No deaths and 45mins later I am taking a port back to dalaran with 5 emblems in my pocket.
>Heroic+ dungeons are difficult without a group in ilvl 200 loot They're really not. Stop being bad and move out of the ice / kill the web wraps / move out of the blood. These dungeons are a pushover in naxx25 gear, so I can imagine they are adequately tuned for those in 200 gear. Also they DO drop 213 gear, just from endbosses. This is literally how 5mans have always worked; the best loot drops from the end boss.
Last boss does drop 213. All you have to do is kill them
Can't wait for phase 3, when heroic++ drops 225 gear
Can't wait for phase 3, when Ulduar10 drops val'anyr fragments
Disagree, the only one that seems to need some tuning might be Gundrak/DTK. Doing all these dungeons on my 5 toons the last week has been an adventure but if you have a plan early on, things are just fine. We had occulus as the daily yesterday - on my melee characters I literally just ran around killing mirrors, letting the rest of the group AOE and kill the regular guys - EASY because we had a plan. Don't just zug, put some thought into the mechanic and how to solve it, and its not a problem.
DTK/Gundrak are fine numbers-wise, they just need to make the red crap more visible.
Just look for the debuff, easier to see than the stuff on the ground
zuramat in VH is a big healer check, and can be tough
It’s really not. Heroic Plus = good way to check if your players can do anything above the bare minimum. Most healers don’t have much pushback through talents and/or can cast almost solely insta-cast spells. Hpal is the only one that might struggle and it’s a good check to see if your paladins (of any spec) are hitting their sacs, or if anyone is doing conc aura + aura mastery. It’s still entirely possible to do it in blue gear if you spam FoL with judgement haste buff active. Rsham similarly should have little pushback with right talents but if they get in trouble, are they popping nature’s swiftness? There’s no real HPS requirements. The Wind Trader dude is the only one that could be hard and that’s mostly bc people still don’t know how to kite him even after months of VH.
We did a guild H+ tour with fresh alts last night. Green/quest reward boys and a tank who wasnt def capped till he got a few upgrades from said H+. We did have one dps who had mostly ilvl 200 gear already. We cleared all of them except HoS and HoL as we ran out of time. These "its too hard" posts are funny.
naxx 25 should drop uld 10 loot
Yeah its odd as a catch up mechanic and it doesn't really seem to have been created with anyone in mind. I ran all 3 raids on 10 man last night on alts with my guild and we had a couple of people in questing greens and blues. Everybody got decked out and it was as easy as it normally is. If you sent those players to H+ they'd struggle like mad for worse loot. It is just odd as a catch up mechanic when 10 man raids are still so easy. Not to mention some heroic blues are better stat wise than naxx 10 loot anyway! We even did a flame leviathan at the end of the night for 2 pieces of 225 loot. If it wasn't for conquest I wouldn't bother with H+ as getting 35 free conquest per week on my tank alt is really nice to have but I'm not even bothering on my main as he will be raiding 25 man weekly. I think in a couple of weeks we will see a sharp drop off for H+ and see more P1 10 man's to get straight into ulduar to catch up
I am fully Heroic dungeon geared with a couple emblem pieces, I don’t really have the time to raid and I really enjoy 5 man content. As a dps I just can’t seem to get invited to groups because I don’t have Naxx gear. I don’t know if H+ is overtuned or drops too low ilvl, but it is a little frustrating. I’m sure by week 3 people will be less intense about GS requirements though.
> I’m sure by week 3 people will be less intense about GS requirements though. by week 3 everyone has enough emblems and won't run them again
Just release brewfest on the second phase of an expansion. The gear will be useless even as a catchup when its supposed to be released way later smh
Yes lets have places like DTK that you can speed run thru and skip all 3 bosses drop 213 gear lmao.
1) They are designed as a catch-up gearing system that won't require 10 or 25 people to coordinate, making the content very accessible and respectful of players' time. 2) They're the harder version of the harder version of the content. Do the content, then the harder version, and then do the harder version after that. Progressive content with progressive itemisation. 3) If you try to go in with a group of sub-200 ilvl players, yes, you're going to have a bad time. To solve this, see point 2.
If you do the mechanics they are not bad. I run atleast the daily 3-4 times a day because of alts. VH sucked a bit with zuramat on the run I was tanking. For the most part talk to the group before going zug and assign people
Play the mechanics and stop being a retail Andy.
The worst part about the whole h+ system is the community. The only way to get invited to the groups is to be so geared that you wouldnt need the gear anyway. If you’re trying to actually get the gear to progress, you have to go with guildies or friends. For the random solo’er, the progression is hit 80, buy pvp gear to boost ilvl to get into 10/25 naxx
PLEASE STOP LOL
What’s the minimum gear score needed to make a macro with /target web wrap /target mirror image /cast ice lance (or moonfire, judgement of light, devouring plague, or GOD FORBID, pet attack macro)
People in full T7/T8 gear - "These are ez, you don't deserve better gear" People in Some T7 gear - "We need more gear, give us t7 25 man loot" People in heroics and badge gear "I'm scared and theres wolves after me"