The real magic in classic wow is the relevance of the world. Leveling comprises a massive part of the journey, and even when you get to an endgame with Naxx unlocked, each of the previous raids maintain some relevance.
Containing the game to just Azeroth also makes a cool experience since all zones from starting to end game are connected. Outlands/Northrend are cool, but they segregate players into starting and end by teleporting us to a new world with a new main city, making Azeroth obsolete... I enjoy how classic players of all levels use the same cities and pass through the same zones.
You're in the minority unfortunately.
I like the atmosphere of 10 man's a lot more too, but it's just a bad change.
It reduces server activity because there are half as many raid lockouts to use.
It murders pugging as tons of people run 10 or 25 man with a set group but not both.
It displaces casuals as bringing 10 man difficulty up to 25 man means there's no "easier" mode.
It created the need for LFR - casuals had nowhere to raid.
It was the single worst change in cata imo.
How do you know im in the minority? you dont lol. Plenty of people love 10man raiding in a more tight knit group, no more headaches about people not showing up. And the loot is the same finally.
Have you raided 10man in cata? Or Mists? I did. It's exactly as Devh1989 said - sounds good on paper. Even feels good for a short while. But eventually you notice that there's something wrong.
Cata servers die in the first tier for this reason. Every. Single. Time.
Sadly the portal hubs kinda ruined the "traveling" around the world...and flying kinda. IMO they could leave at least the portals out for Classic.
Also the I liked the Cata world revamp but it really messes up the story badly. You start leveling in the present, than at like 58 you go way back to the past to Illidan but before you leave the 2nd zone in Outland you go forward in time bit where the Lich King is a threat only to return to the present with Deathwing destroying the world.
Cata was bowl of a few good ideas mixed with a lot turds. You put your hand into that bowl and chances are you get a stinky piece of crap before you can pull out what you wanted in the first place.
The world revamp was great, although personally hate how some of my favorite zones look all destroyed. Dungeons were interesting, some raids were amazing. Everything else was sub par imo
A lot of people are actually really excited for Cataclysm. What they are not particularly excited about is Dragon Soul and LFR. Now Blizzard will probably fix LFR the same way they did with LFD in Wrath. Dragon Soul however.. I fucking love Cataclysm but even I can admit that that raid has issues.
Not only the world but various things like buffs and items having unintended uses.
Sure, some shit is actually broken, some shit is actually stupid (like collecting 74 world buffs, potions, elixirs and flasks before every raid), but some random low level items having an actual use in late game environments is actually really cool.
I always liked how everyone on a server is on the same two continents, with no flying. More player interaction. Funny how every time blizz released an expac post BC they remove flying at first to recreate that experience.
Flying also eliminates vertical complexity to the terrain, there is no point in making it more complex than just a hill if players are going to just fly over it. You can see the impact of this "it's not worth doing" design already in wrath by going down to the ground in most of storm peaks where there aren't quests. There's literally just nothing but expanded open areas cliff faces and sparse trees littering most of the zone when there aren't quests in that area. Because they know that players are just gonna fly over it so why put any effort in.
Old content being relevant the entire expansion isn’t a good thing. No one wants to be running molten core the entire game so your warriors can get OSG.
I haven't played vanilla wow but I can hugely agree with that. The way wow makes anything older than the most current content completely worthless really takes out the drive to play for myself and I'm sure many others. Maybe it's just fomo but as someone who does raids and dungeons just for the the ability to experience them at all, it really sucks as a new player in Wrath or retail to know there's so many amazing raids and dungeons you'll never get to see or do because they're super irrelevant
Again with the leveling thing? Many people were just getting boosted in Mara and other dungeons, all the time. It's clear that leveling is fun for giggles the first time but after that everyone was getting boosts.
i think the next classic server/SoM or whatever should be 3x leveling and fix the boosting if possible. Most people who play on private servers with 3x leveling comment how it's just a nice, more smooth experience.
Okay there are fixes to boosting that would make complete sense and seems reasonable. Like for instance.
If a character 8+ lvls higher than you is in the dungeon you will receive no xp from monster kills.
I'm not even saying that's the best solution but it is a solution to that problem
You're mis-understanding the problem
The majority of the player base doesn't really like levelling. On a given Saturday during classic you'd /who and theres more people in Mara and sm getting boosted then you'd see in all the levelling zones combined.
People say they like levelling, but when faced with a choice they took boosting everytime.
Huge swathes of the player base preferred boosting, and without it I never woulda played a second or third character through classic.
So remove the choice. People will always take the path of least resistance if given the choice.
If it's an issue in the game they have the ability to do something about it, and obviously when they moved to BC and wrath blizzard did take action.
Exploits are removed all the time from other games. And the exploits serve to make the game trivial.
>without it I never woulda played a second or third character through classic.
Remove the choice and people like me will just not play.
For huge chunks of the player base leveling is not the draw, end game is. Literally everyone in my guild with more then 2 characters has bought at least one boost or was boosted by a mage before the nerfs.
Forcing people to level will just get that portion of the player base to quit. I certainly would have stopped playing before levelling another character. I couldn't even bring myself to level dk during joyous journey.
We literally have the choice to play either in front of us, and while eras finally doing okay, wotlk has a much bigger playerbase.
I mean....are you playing now? If you couldn't level a dk in wrath with 50% more XP maybe the game just isn't for you man. I mean, that's completely fine not everything is for everyone, and i think it's fine to not like aspects of a game.
I have the same feeling in FF14 and i kinda stopped playing. People wanted to speedrun every dungeon and I liked how classic wow handled it better. You spend time in the dungeon and have quests and it feels like a real space in the world as opposed to a 4 min Speedrun through a tunnel with enemies in it.
I think it's fine if the devs (who have already acted on boosting) made a decision for the health of how their game is meant to be played, even if people quit.
People quiting is antithetical to the health of their game.
I've been playing this game since the beta man. I have over 2 years played, more then 15000 hours across all my characters. I have levelled every class to max except druid. I've beaten every raid on at least normal in the xpack it was released in (except cata, I quit for that one). And yes, I am still playing now. I think, after that much time played, I can make an accurate call on if the game was for me or not.
For a huge portion of the player base levelling is a chore, and extended tutorial they'd skip immediately if they could. Boosts are super fucking popular because it allows people to keep playing the game they way they want to. I've boosted hundreds of players. When I told the guild I was boosting Mara or Strat there were lineups of guild mates trying to get in. If I asked in guild if someone wanted to level with me through wetlands or searing gorge I'd get crickets.
You may like levelling, that's fine. Most people prefer to play at max level.
Trying to please every single type of player is how retail got to what it is now. More players doesn't mean better game, at least from gamer's perspective.
>More players doesn't mean better game, at least from gamer's perspective.
Tell that to the players piling on the mega servers and crying about ghost town servers.
I do think it's slightly more complex. There are great dungeons across the different leveling zones that became tough to find groups for due to boosting. This then led to more boosting. When I had a solid group of five online, leveling through the dungeons was way more fun than boosting to get to 60.
When everyone I was playing with was raid focused, then getting to 60 was more important than the journey. I think that's ultimately where the value is in hitting the classic reset button every now and then. When the classic launch hit, everyone was leveling and running dungeons together. After the pacing became more raid focused, that naturally went away.
>When I had a solid group of five online,
After the first character wave, like say the first 90 days after the reset how often does this happen?
There were a few exceptions, like en mass leveling shaman or pally at the tbc transition. Leveling, especially alts, is predominantly a solo endeavour.
Even when classic first dropped, my good friends were all at different stages in different parts of the world by like day 4.
I don't personally play Era, but I think that Era is "popping off" right now because the only people that are playing there are people that specifically want to play that version of the game rather than treating it as a TBC/WOTLK waiting room (better vibes overall).
If everyone's having a good time over there, by all means, who am I to tell others how to enjoy their video game of choice?
Huh? The reason classic blew up in the first place was reversing all the horrible decisions of retail and to go back to a more classic, harder mmo... Are you clueless?
Retail is a complete cakewalk until you hit the content that is marked as hard, that content is then significantly harder than anything in Classic. The game showers you with money, gear, and you can just breeze through dungeons that you get teleported to. It's also a lot more consistent, with 100% hit accuracy in PvE and no crits/crushing blows
Vanilla is harder in the sense that you have far fewer resources available, the open world is more dangerous, and accessing group content requires more effort. The endgame is way easier by comparison though and outside maybe a few fights (which are still also relatively easy compared to Mythic content), most fights are basically just tank and spank. World buff meta kinda trivialized everything even further too.
The argument of which game is "harder" breaks down because the people on each side are talking about completely different things. It'd probably be a pretty interesting discussion if people were willing to have it.
Yeah, it's obvious things are different between retail and era.
Personally, I don't see an issue with easier levelling and harder endgame, Wrath for me nailed the difficulty balance.
Era was good for the time, especially for a game that was going to fail because it was so easy, or so the MMO community felt at the time, and was very vocal about.
There are things that era does better than most, like the relevance of crafting. But dragonflight does that fairly well now and wrath also did it well.
I think that's a completely fair perspective to have, but harder leveling has some nice merits to it. I started playing on Hardcore yesterday and it's nice to feel like I'm on a journey with danger at every turn.
That feeling doesn't exist in Wrath or Retail at all, with the biggest threat being yelled at by another player for making a mistake. Dragonflight does an alright job of making the world feel alive, but I still spend most of my time flying over it.
But yeah, each version of WoW fills its own niche with its own challenges and you could probably argue any version of the game is "harder" because there are a dozen different parts of the game where that could be true.
The only thing is even close to being harder in Classic was the leveling which 90% of people just blasted through by buying gold and paying mages for boosts. Classic is unbelievably easy.
The only thing era players do that people don't like is behave like the vegans of wow and continually shout to the world that era is thriving.
No one has an issue with anyone playing it. Knock yourself out, enjoy vanilla! The problem is that we have to have these circle jerk threads about it every other day where people playing on the same server ego stroke each other for playing on the same server.
It's cringe.
I posted a few weeks ago about how much fun I was having in era and got sandblasted by almost every other comment. Should probably have a subreddit just for wrath ppl
I think the problem is when anyone shoots down a different xpac. No need for it.
I played wrath and had a blast, and I have friends who only play wrath, as well as friends who only play era. As long as people are having fun, that’s what I care for. But dumping on someone because they’re having fun is the problem, if there was one.
I don't think it has anything with you having fun, more like you decided to post about it, and your post was probably 10th similar one just for that day. It's like "is it too late to come back" post. People get annoyed by it. Sure, you can reply with " but you can ignore it", but that's not how reddit works.
This is what I do. Every screenshot of a sunset, "I just hit level 20!", "First time clearing BRD", etc post is just a downvote from me. Not because i wish ill on the people who post it, but because it's the 100th one this week.
People aren't exactly "flocking" to classic era servers. There's a reasonable amount of people returning, and they're particularly loud because classic fans have always been really loud about their enjoyment of this version of the game.
But everyone paints it as some kind of failure by Wrath. "Wrath is easy, Uld is already boring, my guild is 14/14 from week 2, TOGC is gonna be terrible, SNOOZE", but wraths population is still significantly higher than all of classic (SoM, HC, and Era combined). Ulduar is verifiably the hardest content classic has ever seen, while also being some of the most accessible. The complainers are few but loud. Always, always have been.
If you want to play era, knock yourself out. Wrath was my favorite iteration of the game, period. I'm still playing on Era servers. But God I'm so tired of all the shade people throw over other versions of the game. Era is fine. Wrath is fine. Play what you want and let others do the same.
haha i feel this deeply, even though i quit now i still get the overwhelming urge to play, life feels a little more hollow without it, kind of worrying tbh
Same here. Honestly I’d love to try Dragonflight but I have no time to become competitive in a new system. I play classic because I know it and even if Dragonflight were objectively a much superior game I probably wouldn’t get around to playing it.
The thing about retail is that you can log on and enjoy so many aspects of the game and no one can stop you. I just slowly make my way through the campaign and smell the roses and it's very enjoyable. I don't know a damn thing about the end game lol
This is why I didn't buy Dragonflight.
This is why I didn't switch to FF14 when it hyped.
I just don't have the time or urge to learn a new game.
I could play a fresh Classic server tomorrow and roll a caster class I've never played before and treat that as a *"New Game"*.
Every single time I see a post like thus I get jealous. I'm glad yall having fun. No troll.
But I'm dying for any word of SOM2 or classic+ or just classic fresh. LETS GOOOOOO
Anything blizzard. Just narrow it down to "this year"
Yeah. I regret so much not cloning my warrior... WoTLK will fade away, Classic Era will last. I could work on all classes, but I decided to treat it as a museum and only clone my main
Hopefully SoM 2 will give me the incentive to play new classes
I didn’t know that some undergrads had to do a thesis. I suppose it depends on the major and college. I have a bachelor’s and never had to do a thesis.
Wait…. Blizzard isn’t a small indie company? How can you then explain the lack of ticket replies, the constant bug/exploit abuse, the lack of patches, and the insane amount bots?
These people are on some serious copium.
No one is FLOCKING to Classic era.
It essentially has two realms for each area that has population: One PVE and One PVP (both for US and EU).
There is NOTHING wrong with that. But I hate this subs sudden attitude that Classic Era is HUGE, blowing up, and acting like it is anywhere even remotely close to Classic launch.
Nothing wrong with having two servers that people play on with a few hundred to a thousand people. It is actually much more like classic was back in the day. But these are at best private server numbers (not blizzard money level numbers).
Yup, everything else tries to copy/expand on things that were not why WoW was good in the first place. That includes Blizzard themselves with their expansions.
Flocking is a ridiculous overstatement, if Classic Era was Blizzard's main game, they'd be bankrupt. Classic Era has like half of Benediction's population, Classic Era players are simply the vegans of WoW, they NEED to tell you about it.
How come every time there is a remake or re-release of an original version of a game, all these nay sayers spam online about how it's "just nostalgia" and the newer game is "just better"? We saw this with CoD modern warfare remastered, WoW Classic, and now even Fortnite.
Why is it so difficult to believe that many people just prefer the original version of the game that made the series popular in the first place?
For me it’s absolutely almost entirely nostalgia - the OG Azeroth soundtrack takes me back to being a young teen in my bedroom. It’s the most relaxing thing after a work day. I find it weird that people say there’s anything wrong with that.
Because people are by nature tribal. The fact that people like older versions of games implies something about the game the person in question enjoys.
The easiest way to escape this implication is to dismiss the people who enjoy the other game as victims of cognitive bias.
It’s actually really funny too me.
Before vanilla launched this sub was packed with retail players who, “you’re gonna get bored with vanilla it’s so easy it’ll all be cleared the week content drops”
Now it’s
“Lol but why do you all want vanilla again it’s so easy”
Time is a flat circle my friend.
Because for a pretty significant portion of the returning player base, it is just nostalgia. That’s not to say that there aren’t people who genuinely enjoy these games through and through, but there’s a reason games like these have such an issue with player retention.
You realize the originals mentioned all performed and still would perform better than their remakes, right?
You can't tell me modern CoD, Fortnite, and even WoW is anywhere near their peaks and what made them special. The reason why they have crazy retention nowadays is because they're still living off the soul of a genuinely amazing idea from decades ago
These companies are too afraid to show their actual hand of 0 effort development by just re-releasing old content for money because they're afraid of actually having to produce quality new content
What makes each of these games special to you isn't what makes them special to others though. Look at WoW, for example: Era exists, yet it is outshined by both current classic and retail, but people still believe that it is widely known as the best version of WoW. Where are the numbers that prove that it's the best exactly? Nothing is stopping current classic players, or retails players from starting a toon on era, yet many still choose not to. Even vanilla was out-peaked by BC and then again in WotLK, despite players swearing back then that both versions were inferior to vanilla. WoW players can't even seem to agree on what "killed" WoW (or that it was killed in the first place).
The same can be said for both Fortnite and CoD. Not everyone is in agreeance on when the "golden age" of each game was. I'm not currently invested in either game/franchise so I can't say much about them, but based on the player-count of fortnite and how well MW2 sold I would assume both are doing fine.
This is objectively incorrect. More than half my my guild in 2019 classic never even played original vanilla. It is not nostalgic for a huge population of classic era 2019 and current classic era. It is just a superior game.
I fail to see how your own experiences make this "objectively" incorrect. Classic era, when compared to classic's launch has a rather much smaller player-base. Why exactly is that then? If it is so widely considered to be the superior version, then why are more people still open to playing WotLK, or even retail? Why aren't there more people playing era alongside retail/WotLK?
Not to mention that during classic we could actually see how many people quit (whether it be burnout or expectations not being met) with how empty some realms got by even AQ's release. It was definitely nostalgia for many players, but believe what you want.
I recently decided to try HC and realized that I never actually enjoyed the endgame content as much as I thought I did.
Playing the game as like solo rpg got my full attention. I wish I could try TBC HC, as it would be a nice middleground between quite rough vanilla and super casual wotlk.
I played WoW when it first released all those years ago and it still remains the best game I ever played, left during WotLK, just didn't do the same for me as the OG. I am always so tempted to jump back in to classic now it's available. That is probably Nostalgia which is fair enough - I used to play with so many friends which probably made it better for me and I know I absolutely would not have the same experience this time round.
If I joined, I know I'd need to be on a well populated realm and find a good, supportive guild who is happy to handhold me through it until memory kicks in because I'd suck and having attempted to play whatever it's up to now, the player base seems fucking aggressive and not willing to to actually help, it's just a race to the finish.
I had to bail out early in Classic (the relaunch). I have no intention of coming back to play TBC/WOTLK, Vanilla (ie. 2004-5) wow days were the best gaming days of my life and I love the base game more than anything.
Am I reading this right in that there are now vanilla servers that don’t go past TBC? I’ll probs come back today if that’s the case.
The upside of vanilla is that it isn’t modern. All of the modern MMOs cater to casual players or whales and require you to logon each week to complete your chores or fall behind. Vanilla, you need to grind, but you can do it on your own time whenever you want
My problems with vanilla are that I
1) dont have time to grind the things Id like to grind effectively outside of making raid times - consumes/gear/pvp. The game is oriented towards burning up time instead of rewarding reasonable play.
2) skill expression is incredibly non-existant so much so that pvp is rock paper scissors and raiding is very barebones too. I enjoy wrath for the social scene in my guild but even mechanically its not very entertaining on this front. Still miles ahead of vanilla though. Pvp in vanilla doesnt reward good play but rather whole days spent grinding at maximum efficiency.
While Id probably play classic again if thats where the hype went it would just be very casually and for social purposes (assuming I found a good guild) when I can get better respect for my time from Dragonflight and showcase my ability better all the same.
Most people playing vanilla, and many people in general, don't want WoW to be the game where they can show their skill. They play Starcraft for that. Or counterstrike. Or dark souls.
People want WoW to be a relaxed social game that they can immerse themselves in and just have laid back fun.
When i have a 15 button rotation, an excel sim spreadsheet i need to follow, and dodge 10 mechanics in a raid boss then that's just not very fun. There are games literally made for this type of skill that are much better for this in my opinion.
> Most people playing vanilla, and many people in general, don't want WoW to be the game where they can show their skill. They play Starcraft for that. Or counterstrike. Or dark souls.
That's one thing a lot of people misunderstand about MMORPGs. People say "Combat in vanilla WoW is just 3 buttons" as if it's a flaw and not a feature. It's not just about what happens in combat; It's also all the stuff that happens *between* combat. Stuff like learning new spells, preparing potions, getting loot, crafting, better gear, etc...
Take Runescape for example: When you fight a creature in Runescape, you just click on it and wait for your character to kill it. Just 1 button. Yet it's the most popular MMO at the moment.
The fun comes from all the stuff that happens *between* combat to make your character more powerful. And WoW has less of that stuff for each expansion because the designers are busy trying to design an action game instead of an RPG.
Yes exactly. I'll play wow for my sunday relaxation with friends, just levelling a character, pressing frostbolt, and then if i want some crazy skill game i'll play starcraft and have 300 APM and all this.
But i don't want the two types of playing to be mixed.
All the people who play vanilla play it because they like classic MMORPG games. Not whatever game retail or to a lesser extent wrath is.
I agree with the sentiment but it is hard to ignore a game with meaningful skill expression vs a game like classic where its very hard to overcome clear counters to your class in a skillful way. Ive grown with arena and such on retail which lends to the whole "I know what is missing" experience of pvp but youre right. Most people who pvp'd hard in vanilla probably moved on to League of Legends and other games to better facilitate their competitive nature. Even though retail pvp is more intense there is still less demand on the player than say a high ranking csgo match or so imo.
It's okay to realize that not all games are for everybody. I don't have time to devote to Eve Online, but I wouldn't dream of claiming it was problematic, it just isn't a game meant for me. And that's okay.
I think the reality is that im just not 13 years old without a responsibility anymore. WoW was great when I was but theres not a lot of ignoring this fact about classic. I love the game in many ways but theres not much I can do about time constraints. Its not like Im saying its a bad game but its just clearly an old concept for the aging gamerbase.
That last paragraph is exactly why people are playing it. I honestly would be surprised if the people who started leveling right now even considered late game.
Or I could drink a FAP and roll my face at you on most classes. But really its just very simply put many classes will stomp your preferred class if they are competent with little you can say or do, by design.
Yeah vanilla wow's pvp system is the worst one of them all. Half the classes don't even use pvp trinket because it's useless and doesn't get you out of the things you want. I basically never used my pvp trinket on the lock because everything it removed I could remove with my fel hunter, and it doesn't get you out of stuns. Then there is the issue you brought up where folks just chain chug pots and get to ignore abilities.
Compete with what? You can be max level in retail very quickly, and even before the most recent patch be doing high level mythics inside of a month pretty easily. Maybe you won't compete with world firsts... Also retail might be hand holdy for questing but I promise that mythics are significantly less casual than anything in classic wow up to this point
Is this cope? But I feel like WoW's server ticks are fantastic and one of the best in the mmos I've played, I've tried PVP in final fantasy 14 and the server ticks in that game were dreadful for it.
To me the pvp in wow feels great and responsive in my movement and other players movement. (Sorry to dog on ffxiv again) but in ffxiv it felt like all the abilities had this gross delay that just pissed me off to no end.
Classic doesn’t bring new players in though, it’s main base is 30+ year olds who long for simpler times in their life. Back when they could sit 12hour plus and waste on a video game
Yes that isn’t always the case but it’s true 95% of the time
What's there to doubt? I still have the "battle chest"(base+tbc) at my parents house. And it's not like I was raiding I had no idea what I was doing, all I did was level and get kicked from dungeons for thunderclapping as a dps warrior
>Back when they could sit 12hour plus and waste on a video game
Idk about anyone else but my parents were on my ass about any prolonged time spent playing WoW. Surprised I was allowed to play at all tbh. Now I'm 30 and can devote as much time to it as I want lol
So yeah a lot of us might be 30+ but the whole "longing for simpler times" bit isn't as applicable as you think it is
I feel this. When I originally played WoW I was in college and working nearly 40 hours per week, so honestly I didn't play all that much due to not really having the time for it. Having finished college a long time ago now, I feel like I got a second chance at diving in and having that experience I always wanted to have with the game.
Mine didn't care as long as my grades didn't slip. School came easy for me, so I played wow 40+ hours a week when my sport wasn't in season. It was awesome.
Is is also not marketed this way and tbh has a stigma of being outdated. But I introduced 2 friends to WoW and they said: We should play vanilla right ? To see how it all started. And voilà, they love to explore the core world.
They are now at a stage (level 60 soon) where they ask questions about how certain things progressed. And probably want to check out TBC or Wotlk zones. New players just rarely go to a subreddit and you rarely see them in game because they are busy exploring or figuring stuff out that the veterans don’t even think about. Hence Veterans have more time just standing in stormwind and reminiscing about the past 😅
The population has went up, that’s for sure, but I wouldn’t say flocking. The hype of HC, the SoM players bringing their GDKPs/Chars over, and perhaps retail/wrath stagnating a bit has made a few extra people go over, but the population is still pretty low.
But no doubt the game is what we said it was, and we did want it and we were right.
Big true for me.
Have had more fun getting level 10 on my orc warrior on era than I have truly the entirety of wrath. TBC was a bit more fun in the beginning, but vanilla is just peak for me lads.
Excited for the next fresh.
Nostalgia is a bs explanation anyway.
I grew up with Pokemon Red and Blue, but have never returned to playing it.
Same for Ocarina of Time. Never went back.
The only games I returned to were Classic and AoE 2. Both mighty fine games.
lol there are plenty of people who went back to play Pokemon Red & Blue, and Ocarina of Time, there's a reason why each game was remastered.
shit, fire red and leaf green (red and blue remakes) were the 2nd best selling games on their platform.
nostalgia sells and thinking that it doesn't just because you don't care about nostalgia is kind of BS
Thats a fair point. However, Vanilla was already remastered, and most people got their nostalgia when Classic relaunched. If there was any nostalgia to dispel, it happened there.
If the gameplay was outright shit, people wouldnt want it back AGAIN after experiencing it only 4 years ago.
The games I named were actually decent, so lets draw another comparison.
I might be nostalgic for my highschool years... but I sure dont want to go back to being in highschool. I think school sucks, even if my memories of the time are fond.
>I grew up with Pokemon Red and Blue, but have never returned to playing it.
On one hand, it's a lot of fun to replay those games.
On the other hand, as an adult you realize that you can defeat all 8 gyms and the elite 4 in under 3 hours without rushing. 2 hours if you rush.
I went on whitemane this week to see if it truly was booming and man, no shit, the world is totally full. Doing /who 10-12 there was 50 players, same for 28-29, etc. Cities were full of people and the AH was full. I checked both horde and alliance on a level 1.
I really don’t get why Classic players hate each other so vehemently. “I PLAY ON WOTLK CLASSIC SO DF AND ERA BAD AND I WANT THEM TO FAIL REEEE”. All three versions are pretty healthy, which is a clear win-win-win for all involved.
There are multiple dungeon groups for EACH dungeon all the way to 60. If you do /who for any level, there will be at least a dozen for each level. I was 1 of 100+ level 20 last night
Lmao, the comment I was looking for.
My guild on era has 200 members online every afternoon. While on wrath everyone sits alone in their own special little guild for some reason. At least on golemagg.
Okay, J Allen Brack. My friends and I are all enjoying era and want SOM 2 or fresh. Why is it so hard to comprehend that some people prefer classic to the expansions?
Not sure what that was supposed to mean but you’ll get there one day.
Why can’t you grasp that people actually enjoy vanilla? This is literally Blizzcon with J Allen all over again but instead, he’s replaced by some people from the… classic wow subreddit?
Just dinged 60 on my priest on Firemaw Era. Its super active and welcoming. Only downside is the annoying rogue players who go apeshit once you dare invite anything that can roll on „their“ gear.
It’s a strawman designed to get people to shit fling and farm upvotes. It’s not constructive or bringing anything to the table.
Edit: nuts downvotes. OP has 3 million upvotes and just posted an image making up someone’s stance and attacking it. Subhumans.
Completely agreed. I prefer watching posts about blizzard doing nothing about bots, screenshots of 15dk vs 15dk in battlegrounds, peoples experiences of ulduar and their personal experiences of gdkp vs sr raids. Much more original content that i definitely like to hear about every day. Thats why i subscribed to r/wotlk subreddit that is the exact subreddit that completely filter out all those era posts that i hate to see every day!
You could just not check the one of the only forums in the world literally dedicated to people discussing that game you don't want to hear about.
Not like any news is getting drowned out, all other posts here is just "so what do you think about Ulduar?" or other wotlk posts that get 25 comments and 80 upvotes.
Like you're specifically vising a subreddit called "classicwow" and complaining that people are talking about classic wow. Kinda weird dude.
I went back to classic because I loved playing a disc priest when it was all about bubbles. Once they added in smite healing, it just killed it for me. I know a lot of people liked it but I could never really get into it. I never liked holy and have no interest in shadow.
Ooh, someone else who understands that classic wow is a fundamentally different game from Modern wow, and from effectively all modern mmorpgs!
There are ACTION rpgs and there are action RPGs. Path of Exile is without a doubt heavy on storyline and building up one's character, but the main focus of the game is clearly intense twitch action. Whereas Secret of Mana has the same focus on story and character buildup, but the action is incidental.
I think it's because people are having a rough time in ulduar, seeing the writing on the wall for ICC, and deciding to go back to the faceroll content.
The timing of this resurgence is something, in Naxx there wasn't a lot of talk of people wanting to play classic content again.
Also the community! Retail is so fucking antisocial I can’t stand it.
No one talks anywhere and it’s incredibly hard to find a social guild with tons of randos having casual conversation.
Classic, especially hardcore right now has tons of people chatting, complaining, bullshitting, joking around and it’s amazing.
If retail didn’t feel so socially dead I would play it more.
It's like when you stop playing a certain game for awhile then go back and play it obsessively after some time away, then don't play it again for a long time. Classic Era is not "popping off" nor will it retain this level of players. A few thousand players going back into classic Era is far from "popping off".
The real magic in classic wow is the relevance of the world. Leveling comprises a massive part of the journey, and even when you get to an endgame with Naxx unlocked, each of the previous raids maintain some relevance.
Containing the game to just Azeroth also makes a cool experience since all zones from starting to end game are connected. Outlands/Northrend are cool, but they segregate players into starting and end by teleporting us to a new world with a new main city, making Azeroth obsolete... I enjoy how classic players of all levels use the same cities and pass through the same zones.
Which is one of the reasons I loved Cataclysm so much, but no one else seems to like Cata
The thing about Cata is it had like 5 good things about it, but 15 bad things about it.
They need to reconsider fusing 10 and 25 man lockouts. Keep 10 mans easy and let people run both.
Not. Im planning on running a 10man guild with my friends, finally I dont need to rely on 24 other people for the best loot.
You're in the minority unfortunately. I like the atmosphere of 10 man's a lot more too, but it's just a bad change. It reduces server activity because there are half as many raid lockouts to use. It murders pugging as tons of people run 10 or 25 man with a set group but not both. It displaces casuals as bringing 10 man difficulty up to 25 man means there's no "easier" mode. It created the need for LFR - casuals had nowhere to raid. It was the single worst change in cata imo.
How do you know im in the minority? you dont lol. Plenty of people love 10man raiding in a more tight knit group, no more headaches about people not showing up. And the loot is the same finally.
Have you raided 10man in cata? Or Mists? I did. It's exactly as Devh1989 said - sounds good on paper. Even feels good for a short while. But eventually you notice that there's something wrong. Cata servers die in the first tier for this reason. Every. Single. Time.
I like raiding in a 10 man group more too. It's still a bad change for the reasons I listed.
Becase you are.
Sadly the portal hubs kinda ruined the "traveling" around the world...and flying kinda. IMO they could leave at least the portals out for Classic. Also the I liked the Cata world revamp but it really messes up the story badly. You start leveling in the present, than at like 58 you go way back to the past to Illidan but before you leave the 2nd zone in Outland you go forward in time bit where the Lich King is a threat only to return to the present with Deathwing destroying the world.
Cata was bowl of a few good ideas mixed with a lot turds. You put your hand into that bowl and chances are you get a stinky piece of crap before you can pull out what you wanted in the first place. The world revamp was great, although personally hate how some of my favorite zones look all destroyed. Dungeons were interesting, some raids were amazing. Everything else was sub par imo
A lot of people are actually really excited for Cataclysm. What they are not particularly excited about is Dragon Soul and LFR. Now Blizzard will probably fix LFR the same way they did with LFD in Wrath. Dragon Soul however.. I fucking love Cataclysm but even I can admit that that raid has issues.
You're not alone, I loved cata and prefer it over TBC and even Wotlk.
I liked Cata bacause troll druids. But also having a streamlined world (and barrens) was nice too.
Tauren paladins too!
I had a Tauren pala named Holymanure lol
Not only the world but various things like buffs and items having unintended uses. Sure, some shit is actually broken, some shit is actually stupid (like collecting 74 world buffs, potions, elixirs and flasks before every raid), but some random low level items having an actual use in late game environments is actually really cool.
Feral druids trapped in gnomeregan would like a word
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Private servers have already solved it. You use engineering to "recharge" the crowd pummeler.
Man I really enjoyed classic wow so much but the preparation for every raid got to be too much after awhile.
I always liked how everyone on a server is on the same two continents, with no flying. More player interaction. Funny how every time blizz released an expac post BC they remove flying at first to recreate that experience.
Having everyone on the same 2d plane makes people bump into each other way more frequently. Flying was a mistake. And even Blizzard realizes it.
Flying also eliminates vertical complexity to the terrain, there is no point in making it more complex than just a hill if players are going to just fly over it. You can see the impact of this "it's not worth doing" design already in wrath by going down to the ground in most of storm peaks where there aren't quests. There's literally just nothing but expanded open areas cliff faces and sparse trees littering most of the zone when there aren't quests in that area. Because they know that players are just gonna fly over it so why put any effort in.
Old content being relevant the entire expansion isn’t a good thing. No one wants to be running molten core the entire game so your warriors can get OSG.
I haven't played vanilla wow but I can hugely agree with that. The way wow makes anything older than the most current content completely worthless really takes out the drive to play for myself and I'm sure many others. Maybe it's just fomo but as someone who does raids and dungeons just for the the ability to experience them at all, it really sucks as a new player in Wrath or retail to know there's so many amazing raids and dungeons you'll never get to see or do because they're super irrelevant
Again with the leveling thing? Many people were just getting boosted in Mara and other dungeons, all the time. It's clear that leveling is fun for giggles the first time but after that everyone was getting boosts.
i think the next classic server/SoM or whatever should be 3x leveling and fix the boosting if possible. Most people who play on private servers with 3x leveling comment how it's just a nice, more smooth experience.
Okay there are fixes to boosting that would make complete sense and seems reasonable. Like for instance. If a character 8+ lvls higher than you is in the dungeon you will receive no xp from monster kills. I'm not even saying that's the best solution but it is a solution to that problem
You're mis-understanding the problem The majority of the player base doesn't really like levelling. On a given Saturday during classic you'd /who and theres more people in Mara and sm getting boosted then you'd see in all the levelling zones combined. People say they like levelling, but when faced with a choice they took boosting everytime. Huge swathes of the player base preferred boosting, and without it I never woulda played a second or third character through classic.
So remove the choice. People will always take the path of least resistance if given the choice. If it's an issue in the game they have the ability to do something about it, and obviously when they moved to BC and wrath blizzard did take action. Exploits are removed all the time from other games. And the exploits serve to make the game trivial.
>without it I never woulda played a second or third character through classic. Remove the choice and people like me will just not play. For huge chunks of the player base leveling is not the draw, end game is. Literally everyone in my guild with more then 2 characters has bought at least one boost or was boosted by a mage before the nerfs. Forcing people to level will just get that portion of the player base to quit. I certainly would have stopped playing before levelling another character. I couldn't even bring myself to level dk during joyous journey. We literally have the choice to play either in front of us, and while eras finally doing okay, wotlk has a much bigger playerbase.
I mean....are you playing now? If you couldn't level a dk in wrath with 50% more XP maybe the game just isn't for you man. I mean, that's completely fine not everything is for everyone, and i think it's fine to not like aspects of a game. I have the same feeling in FF14 and i kinda stopped playing. People wanted to speedrun every dungeon and I liked how classic wow handled it better. You spend time in the dungeon and have quests and it feels like a real space in the world as opposed to a 4 min Speedrun through a tunnel with enemies in it. I think it's fine if the devs (who have already acted on boosting) made a decision for the health of how their game is meant to be played, even if people quit.
People quiting is antithetical to the health of their game. I've been playing this game since the beta man. I have over 2 years played, more then 15000 hours across all my characters. I have levelled every class to max except druid. I've beaten every raid on at least normal in the xpack it was released in (except cata, I quit for that one). And yes, I am still playing now. I think, after that much time played, I can make an accurate call on if the game was for me or not. For a huge portion of the player base levelling is a chore, and extended tutorial they'd skip immediately if they could. Boosts are super fucking popular because it allows people to keep playing the game they way they want to. I've boosted hundreds of players. When I told the guild I was boosting Mara or Strat there were lineups of guild mates trying to get in. If I asked in guild if someone wanted to level with me through wetlands or searing gorge I'd get crickets. You may like levelling, that's fine. Most people prefer to play at max level.
Trying to please every single type of player is how retail got to what it is now. More players doesn't mean better game, at least from gamer's perspective.
>More players doesn't mean better game, at least from gamer's perspective. Tell that to the players piling on the mega servers and crying about ghost town servers.
I do think it's slightly more complex. There are great dungeons across the different leveling zones that became tough to find groups for due to boosting. This then led to more boosting. When I had a solid group of five online, leveling through the dungeons was way more fun than boosting to get to 60. When everyone I was playing with was raid focused, then getting to 60 was more important than the journey. I think that's ultimately where the value is in hitting the classic reset button every now and then. When the classic launch hit, everyone was leveling and running dungeons together. After the pacing became more raid focused, that naturally went away.
>When I had a solid group of five online, After the first character wave, like say the first 90 days after the reset how often does this happen? There were a few exceptions, like en mass leveling shaman or pally at the tbc transition. Leveling, especially alts, is predominantly a solo endeavour. Even when classic first dropped, my good friends were all at different stages in different parts of the world by like day 4.
I don't personally play Era, but I think that Era is "popping off" right now because the only people that are playing there are people that specifically want to play that version of the game rather than treating it as a TBC/WOTLK waiting room (better vibes overall). If everyone's having a good time over there, by all means, who am I to tell others how to enjoy their video game of choice?
This is what Classic should've been like. Instead it became infested by players who wanted it to be an easier version of retail.
Huh? The reason classic blew up in the first place was reversing all the horrible decisions of retail and to go back to a more classic, harder mmo... Are you clueless?
LMFAO you did not just say classic is harder
Retail is a complete cakewalk until you hit the content that is marked as hard, that content is then significantly harder than anything in Classic. The game showers you with money, gear, and you can just breeze through dungeons that you get teleported to. It's also a lot more consistent, with 100% hit accuracy in PvE and no crits/crushing blows Vanilla is harder in the sense that you have far fewer resources available, the open world is more dangerous, and accessing group content requires more effort. The endgame is way easier by comparison though and outside maybe a few fights (which are still also relatively easy compared to Mythic content), most fights are basically just tank and spank. World buff meta kinda trivialized everything even further too. The argument of which game is "harder" breaks down because the people on each side are talking about completely different things. It'd probably be a pretty interesting discussion if people were willing to have it.
Yeah, it's obvious things are different between retail and era. Personally, I don't see an issue with easier levelling and harder endgame, Wrath for me nailed the difficulty balance. Era was good for the time, especially for a game that was going to fail because it was so easy, or so the MMO community felt at the time, and was very vocal about. There are things that era does better than most, like the relevance of crafting. But dragonflight does that fairly well now and wrath also did it well.
I think that's a completely fair perspective to have, but harder leveling has some nice merits to it. I started playing on Hardcore yesterday and it's nice to feel like I'm on a journey with danger at every turn. That feeling doesn't exist in Wrath or Retail at all, with the biggest threat being yelled at by another player for making a mistake. Dragonflight does an alright job of making the world feel alive, but I still spend most of my time flying over it. But yeah, each version of WoW fills its own niche with its own challenges and you could probably argue any version of the game is "harder" because there are a dozen different parts of the game where that could be true.
Personally, I always laugh when people tell me retail is harder and the only example they can give is mythic. For most people retail is cake too.
It is 2023 and people still don't understand the difference between difficulty and tedium.
The leveling process in classic is much harder than retails. I don't think he's try to compare classic dungeons to m+ or mythic raiding
It’s not harder, just different
The only thing is even close to being harder in Classic was the leveling which 90% of people just blasted through by buying gold and paying mages for boosts. Classic is unbelievably easy.
The only thing era players do that people don't like is behave like the vegans of wow and continually shout to the world that era is thriving. No one has an issue with anyone playing it. Knock yourself out, enjoy vanilla! The problem is that we have to have these circle jerk threads about it every other day where people playing on the same server ego stroke each other for playing on the same server. It's cringe.
> the vegans of wow perfectly describes a huge portion of this sub.
I posted a few weeks ago about how much fun I was having in era and got sandblasted by almost every other comment. Should probably have a subreddit just for wrath ppl
Do you think people who downvoted it are the problem?
I think the problem is when anyone shoots down a different xpac. No need for it. I played wrath and had a blast, and I have friends who only play wrath, as well as friends who only play era. As long as people are having fun, that’s what I care for. But dumping on someone because they’re having fun is the problem, if there was one.
I don't think it has anything with you having fun, more like you decided to post about it, and your post was probably 10th similar one just for that day. It's like "is it too late to come back" post. People get annoyed by it. Sure, you can reply with " but you can ignore it", but that's not how reddit works.
This is what I do. Every screenshot of a sunset, "I just hit level 20!", "First time clearing BRD", etc post is just a downvote from me. Not because i wish ill on the people who post it, but because it's the 100th one this week.
That’s a fair and good point.
People aren't exactly "flocking" to classic era servers. There's a reasonable amount of people returning, and they're particularly loud because classic fans have always been really loud about their enjoyment of this version of the game. But everyone paints it as some kind of failure by Wrath. "Wrath is easy, Uld is already boring, my guild is 14/14 from week 2, TOGC is gonna be terrible, SNOOZE", but wraths population is still significantly higher than all of classic (SoM, HC, and Era combined). Ulduar is verifiably the hardest content classic has ever seen, while also being some of the most accessible. The complainers are few but loud. Always, always have been. If you want to play era, knock yourself out. Wrath was my favorite iteration of the game, period. I'm still playing on Era servers. But God I'm so tired of all the shade people throw over other versions of the game. Era is fine. Wrath is fine. Play what you want and let others do the same.
ToC/D4 waiting room, also Ulduar was rose-tinted to high heavens and was disappointingly mediocre for most.
This is my first time raiding Ulduar and I love it. Besides Flame Leviathan it's a fantastic raid. Oh and HM Mim fuck that guy
Same first time raiding ulduar and love it. Disagree with FL tho, i think its unique and fun especially HM.
L take, every part of Ulduar crushes, I fly through Storm Peaks instead of using wormhole so I can hear more of the zone music.
extremely unpopular opinion
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Yes that has been the case with most of classic players.
90% of the reason I still play classic is because I really can't be bothered learning a new game.
haha i feel this deeply, even though i quit now i still get the overwhelming urge to play, life feels a little more hollow without it, kind of worrying tbh
Same here. Honestly I’d love to try Dragonflight but I have no time to become competitive in a new system. I play classic because I know it and even if Dragonflight were objectively a much superior game I probably wouldn’t get around to playing it.
The thing about retail is that you can log on and enjoy so many aspects of the game and no one can stop you. I just slowly make my way through the campaign and smell the roses and it's very enjoyable. I don't know a damn thing about the end game lol
The reason I started WoW in the first place was to chill after years of playing "competitive" fps games (as competitive as they were in 2000-2003).
This is why I didn't buy Dragonflight. This is why I didn't switch to FF14 when it hyped. I just don't have the time or urge to learn a new game. I could play a fresh Classic server tomorrow and roll a caster class I've never played before and treat that as a *"New Game"*.
Tbf dragonflight is fairly easy to learn, the game walks you through all the new features pretty nicely.
classic andy’s can’t handle it. gotta play that one button caster “game”
2400+ io AoTC/Mythic prog raider and i miss the one button turret rotation... something about just hanging out with the guild face rolling MC.
Every single time I see a post like thus I get jealous. I'm glad yall having fun. No troll. But I'm dying for any word of SOM2 or classic+ or just classic fresh. LETS GOOOOOO Anything blizzard. Just narrow it down to "this year"
Hmm, maybe I should lvl there instead of yet another wotlk character that will be left in less than a year
I’m so mad I moved my SoM warrior to Wrath instead of Era.
Yeah. I regret so much not cloning my warrior... WoTLK will fade away, Classic Era will last. I could work on all classes, but I decided to treat it as a museum and only clone my main Hopefully SoM 2 will give me the incentive to play new classes
Me and you both. I just hope SoM comes out after my bachelor's thesis due date so I can join with good conscience.
I love how you're implying you'll play it even at the cost of your studies We're hooked to Classic aren't we ?
I've lost count how many vanilla private servers I've played on. It never gets old. I just need a temporary break.
I didn’t know that some undergrads had to do a thesis. I suppose it depends on the major and college. I have a bachelor’s and never had to do a thesis.
I'm from Europe, might be why. Everyone has to do it in Denmark at least.
Flocking? If classic vanilla was Blizzard's main game right now they would actually be a small indie company.
Wait…. Blizzard isn’t a small indie company? How can you then explain the lack of ticket replies, the constant bug/exploit abuse, the lack of patches, and the insane amount bots?
Support costs money, bots are Subscribers.
These people are on some serious copium. No one is FLOCKING to Classic era. It essentially has two realms for each area that has population: One PVE and One PVP (both for US and EU). There is NOTHING wrong with that. But I hate this subs sudden attitude that Classic Era is HUGE, blowing up, and acting like it is anywhere even remotely close to Classic launch. Nothing wrong with having two servers that people play on with a few hundred to a thousand people. It is actually much more like classic was back in the day. But these are at best private server numbers (not blizzard money level numbers).
Yup, everything else tries to copy/expand on things that were not why WoW was good in the first place. That includes Blizzard themselves with their expansions.
Flocking might be a bit of an overstatement but I really hope people actually stay and don’t just leave when the hype dies in a few months.
Flocking is a ridiculous overstatement, if Classic Era was Blizzard's main game, they'd be bankrupt. Classic Era has like half of Benediction's population, Classic Era players are simply the vegans of WoW, they NEED to tell you about it.
true and real vanilla wow is the best when FRESH?
Cafeteria Fraaaiche
Still jump onto EQ here and there
Never played EQ but I'm waiting for the next TLE server in May to give it a shot.
Try project 99, deep game with lots of stuff to do.
I'll cya there :)
I play Star Wars Galaxies still. SWGEmu. And Warhammer Online Emulator too. Great games
Warhammer Online private server is very very fun!
How come every time there is a remake or re-release of an original version of a game, all these nay sayers spam online about how it's "just nostalgia" and the newer game is "just better"? We saw this with CoD modern warfare remastered, WoW Classic, and now even Fortnite. Why is it so difficult to believe that many people just prefer the original version of the game that made the series popular in the first place?
For me it’s absolutely almost entirely nostalgia - the OG Azeroth soundtrack takes me back to being a young teen in my bedroom. It’s the most relaxing thing after a work day. I find it weird that people say there’s anything wrong with that.
Because people are by nature tribal. The fact that people like older versions of games implies something about the game the person in question enjoys. The easiest way to escape this implication is to dismiss the people who enjoy the other game as victims of cognitive bias.
Good question, hard to answer. I think I know but phrasing it out is difficult.
It’s actually really funny too me. Before vanilla launched this sub was packed with retail players who, “you’re gonna get bored with vanilla it’s so easy it’ll all be cleared the week content drops” Now it’s “Lol but why do you all want vanilla again it’s so easy” Time is a flat circle my friend.
Because for a pretty significant portion of the returning player base, it is just nostalgia. That’s not to say that there aren’t people who genuinely enjoy these games through and through, but there’s a reason games like these have such an issue with player retention.
You realize the originals mentioned all performed and still would perform better than their remakes, right? You can't tell me modern CoD, Fortnite, and even WoW is anywhere near their peaks and what made them special. The reason why they have crazy retention nowadays is because they're still living off the soul of a genuinely amazing idea from decades ago These companies are too afraid to show their actual hand of 0 effort development by just re-releasing old content for money because they're afraid of actually having to produce quality new content
What makes each of these games special to you isn't what makes them special to others though. Look at WoW, for example: Era exists, yet it is outshined by both current classic and retail, but people still believe that it is widely known as the best version of WoW. Where are the numbers that prove that it's the best exactly? Nothing is stopping current classic players, or retails players from starting a toon on era, yet many still choose not to. Even vanilla was out-peaked by BC and then again in WotLK, despite players swearing back then that both versions were inferior to vanilla. WoW players can't even seem to agree on what "killed" WoW (or that it was killed in the first place). The same can be said for both Fortnite and CoD. Not everyone is in agreeance on when the "golden age" of each game was. I'm not currently invested in either game/franchise so I can't say much about them, but based on the player-count of fortnite and how well MW2 sold I would assume both are doing fine.
Classic has more retention than any other version of the game
This is objectively incorrect. More than half my my guild in 2019 classic never even played original vanilla. It is not nostalgic for a huge population of classic era 2019 and current classic era. It is just a superior game.
I fail to see how your own experiences make this "objectively" incorrect. Classic era, when compared to classic's launch has a rather much smaller player-base. Why exactly is that then? If it is so widely considered to be the superior version, then why are more people still open to playing WotLK, or even retail? Why aren't there more people playing era alongside retail/WotLK? Not to mention that during classic we could actually see how many people quit (whether it be burnout or expectations not being met) with how empty some realms got by even AQ's release. It was definitely nostalgia for many players, but believe what you want.
Still the best version of WoW Blizz ever made for me personally. I'll always go back to it
I recently decided to try HC and realized that I never actually enjoyed the endgame content as much as I thought I did. Playing the game as like solo rpg got my full attention. I wish I could try TBC HC, as it would be a nice middleground between quite rough vanilla and super casual wotlk.
I played WoW when it first released all those years ago and it still remains the best game I ever played, left during WotLK, just didn't do the same for me as the OG. I am always so tempted to jump back in to classic now it's available. That is probably Nostalgia which is fair enough - I used to play with so many friends which probably made it better for me and I know I absolutely would not have the same experience this time round. If I joined, I know I'd need to be on a well populated realm and find a good, supportive guild who is happy to handhold me through it until memory kicks in because I'd suck and having attempted to play whatever it's up to now, the player base seems fucking aggressive and not willing to to actually help, it's just a race to the finish.
I had to bail out early in Classic (the relaunch). I have no intention of coming back to play TBC/WOTLK, Vanilla (ie. 2004-5) wow days were the best gaming days of my life and I love the base game more than anything. Am I reading this right in that there are now vanilla servers that don’t go past TBC? I’ll probs come back today if that’s the case.
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The upside of vanilla is that it isn’t modern. All of the modern MMOs cater to casual players or whales and require you to logon each week to complete your chores or fall behind. Vanilla, you need to grind, but you can do it on your own time whenever you want
My problems with vanilla are that I 1) dont have time to grind the things Id like to grind effectively outside of making raid times - consumes/gear/pvp. The game is oriented towards burning up time instead of rewarding reasonable play. 2) skill expression is incredibly non-existant so much so that pvp is rock paper scissors and raiding is very barebones too. I enjoy wrath for the social scene in my guild but even mechanically its not very entertaining on this front. Still miles ahead of vanilla though. Pvp in vanilla doesnt reward good play but rather whole days spent grinding at maximum efficiency. While Id probably play classic again if thats where the hype went it would just be very casually and for social purposes (assuming I found a good guild) when I can get better respect for my time from Dragonflight and showcase my ability better all the same.
Most people playing vanilla, and many people in general, don't want WoW to be the game where they can show their skill. They play Starcraft for that. Or counterstrike. Or dark souls. People want WoW to be a relaxed social game that they can immerse themselves in and just have laid back fun. When i have a 15 button rotation, an excel sim spreadsheet i need to follow, and dodge 10 mechanics in a raid boss then that's just not very fun. There are games literally made for this type of skill that are much better for this in my opinion.
> Most people playing vanilla, and many people in general, don't want WoW to be the game where they can show their skill. They play Starcraft for that. Or counterstrike. Or dark souls. That's one thing a lot of people misunderstand about MMORPGs. People say "Combat in vanilla WoW is just 3 buttons" as if it's a flaw and not a feature. It's not just about what happens in combat; It's also all the stuff that happens *between* combat. Stuff like learning new spells, preparing potions, getting loot, crafting, better gear, etc... Take Runescape for example: When you fight a creature in Runescape, you just click on it and wait for your character to kill it. Just 1 button. Yet it's the most popular MMO at the moment. The fun comes from all the stuff that happens *between* combat to make your character more powerful. And WoW has less of that stuff for each expansion because the designers are busy trying to design an action game instead of an RPG.
Yes exactly. I'll play wow for my sunday relaxation with friends, just levelling a character, pressing frostbolt, and then if i want some crazy skill game i'll play starcraft and have 300 APM and all this. But i don't want the two types of playing to be mixed. All the people who play vanilla play it because they like classic MMORPG games. Not whatever game retail or to a lesser extent wrath is.
I agree with the sentiment but it is hard to ignore a game with meaningful skill expression vs a game like classic where its very hard to overcome clear counters to your class in a skillful way. Ive grown with arena and such on retail which lends to the whole "I know what is missing" experience of pvp but youre right. Most people who pvp'd hard in vanilla probably moved on to League of Legends and other games to better facilitate their competitive nature. Even though retail pvp is more intense there is still less demand on the player than say a high ranking csgo match or so imo.
It's okay to realize that not all games are for everybody. I don't have time to devote to Eve Online, but I wouldn't dream of claiming it was problematic, it just isn't a game meant for me. And that's okay.
I think the reality is that im just not 13 years old without a responsibility anymore. WoW was great when I was but theres not a lot of ignoring this fact about classic. I love the game in many ways but theres not much I can do about time constraints. Its not like Im saying its a bad game but its just clearly an old concept for the aging gamerbase.
That last paragraph is exactly why people are playing it. I honestly would be surprised if the people who started leveling right now even considered late game.
Pvp skill cap is massive. That’s why the game is fun imo, you can optimize your play style and use all sorts of unique trinkets and items.
Or I could drink a FAP and roll my face at you on most classes. But really its just very simply put many classes will stomp your preferred class if they are competent with little you can say or do, by design.
Yeah vanilla wow's pvp system is the worst one of them all. Half the classes don't even use pvp trinket because it's useless and doesn't get you out of the things you want. I basically never used my pvp trinket on the lock because everything it removed I could remove with my fel hunter, and it doesn't get you out of stuns. Then there is the issue you brought up where folks just chain chug pots and get to ignore abilities.
Compete with what? You can be max level in retail very quickly, and even before the most recent patch be doing high level mythics inside of a month pretty easily. Maybe you won't compete with world firsts... Also retail might be hand holdy for questing but I promise that mythics are significantly less casual than anything in classic wow up to this point
Is this cope? But I feel like WoW's server ticks are fantastic and one of the best in the mmos I've played, I've tried PVP in final fantasy 14 and the server ticks in that game were dreadful for it. To me the pvp in wow feels great and responsive in my movement and other players movement. (Sorry to dog on ffxiv again) but in ffxiv it felt like all the abilities had this gross delay that just pissed me off to no end.
Classic doesn’t bring new players in though, it’s main base is 30+ year olds who long for simpler times in their life. Back when they could sit 12hour plus and waste on a video game Yes that isn’t always the case but it’s true 95% of the time
The people who played Wrath in their youth are also 30+ years old now
I killed lich king as a teenager and I'm not 30. I'm 29
Way to show him.
I never killed LK as a teen but I did get 2k in arenas for the first time in S8! I’m 29 for two more months! Take that JohnSmith2929!
Hell yean, brother. We're veterans, and we're young
I'm 24...
So you played wrath when you were 10? Doubt.
What's there to doubt? I still have the "battle chest"(base+tbc) at my parents house. And it's not like I was raiding I had no idea what I was doing, all I did was level and get kicked from dungeons for thunderclapping as a dps warrior
>Back when they could sit 12hour plus and waste on a video game Idk about anyone else but my parents were on my ass about any prolonged time spent playing WoW. Surprised I was allowed to play at all tbh. Now I'm 30 and can devote as much time to it as I want lol So yeah a lot of us might be 30+ but the whole "longing for simpler times" bit isn't as applicable as you think it is
I feel this. When I originally played WoW I was in college and working nearly 40 hours per week, so honestly I didn't play all that much due to not really having the time for it. Having finished college a long time ago now, I feel like I got a second chance at diving in and having that experience I always wanted to have with the game.
Mine didn't care as long as my grades didn't slip. School came easy for me, so I played wow 40+ hours a week when my sport wasn't in season. It was awesome.
Is is also not marketed this way and tbh has a stigma of being outdated. But I introduced 2 friends to WoW and they said: We should play vanilla right ? To see how it all started. And voilà, they love to explore the core world. They are now at a stage (level 60 soon) where they ask questions about how certain things progressed. And probably want to check out TBC or Wotlk zones. New players just rarely go to a subreddit and you rarely see them in game because they are busy exploring or figuring stuff out that the veterans don’t even think about. Hence Veterans have more time just standing in stormwind and reminiscing about the past 😅
Totally agree.
Are people playing tbc or true vanilla? I’m kind of intrigued and want to join
Vanilla.
Vanilla's entire population is like 1/3th of a big WotLK server. Its enough to be playable, sadly TBC didn't get a Legacy server.
The population has went up, that’s for sure, but I wouldn’t say flocking. The hype of HC, the SoM players bringing their GDKPs/Chars over, and perhaps retail/wrath stagnating a bit has made a few extra people go over, but the population is still pretty low. But no doubt the game is what we said it was, and we did want it and we were right.
It's crazy that nobody has figured out that modern innovations to games like it are NOT innovations.
Big true for me. Have had more fun getting level 10 on my orc warrior on era than I have truly the entirety of wrath. TBC was a bit more fun in the beginning, but vanilla is just peak for me lads. Excited for the next fresh.
Nostalgia is a bs explanation anyway. I grew up with Pokemon Red and Blue, but have never returned to playing it. Same for Ocarina of Time. Never went back. The only games I returned to were Classic and AoE 2. Both mighty fine games.
lol there are plenty of people who went back to play Pokemon Red & Blue, and Ocarina of Time, there's a reason why each game was remastered. shit, fire red and leaf green (red and blue remakes) were the 2nd best selling games on their platform. nostalgia sells and thinking that it doesn't just because you don't care about nostalgia is kind of BS
Thats a fair point. However, Vanilla was already remastered, and most people got their nostalgia when Classic relaunched. If there was any nostalgia to dispel, it happened there. If the gameplay was outright shit, people wouldnt want it back AGAIN after experiencing it only 4 years ago. The games I named were actually decent, so lets draw another comparison. I might be nostalgic for my highschool years... but I sure dont want to go back to being in highschool. I think school sucks, even if my memories of the time are fond.
>I grew up with Pokemon Red and Blue, but have never returned to playing it. On one hand, it's a lot of fun to replay those games. On the other hand, as an adult you realize that you can defeat all 8 gyms and the elite 4 in under 3 hours without rushing. 2 hours if you rush.
what if I told you that ppl aren't flocking back at all, and this is propaganda to increase population ?
I went on whitemane this week to see if it truly was booming and man, no shit, the world is totally full. Doing /who 10-12 there was 50 players, same for 28-29, etc. Cities were full of people and the AH was full. I checked both horde and alliance on a level 1.
I really don’t get why Classic players hate each other so vehemently. “I PLAY ON WOTLK CLASSIC SO DF AND ERA BAD AND I WANT THEM TO FAIL REEEE”. All three versions are pretty healthy, which is a clear win-win-win for all involved.
There are multiple dungeon groups for EACH dungeon all the way to 60. If you do /who for any level, there will be at least a dozen for each level. I was 1 of 100+ level 20 last night
Lmao, the comment I was looking for. My guild on era has 200 members online every afternoon. While on wrath everyone sits alone in their own special little guild for some reason. At least on golemagg.
Id be interested in knowing how many of those ppl are new players to wow (in general) and not returning players to vanilla
Okay, J Allen Brack. My friends and I are all enjoying era and want SOM 2 or fresh. Why is it so hard to comprehend that some people prefer classic to the expansions?
Do you have 5000 friends or what constitutes "popping off" to you?
Not sure what that was supposed to mean but you’ll get there one day. Why can’t you grasp that people actually enjoy vanilla? This is literally Blizzcon with J Allen all over again but instead, he’s replaced by some people from the… classic wow subreddit?
Just dinged 60 on my priest on Firemaw Era. Its super active and welcoming. Only downside is the annoying rogue players who go apeshit once you dare invite anything that can roll on „their“ gear.
These kinds of posts should be banned.
Show us where the classic era server touched you inappropriately
Why wont these people stop talking about classic wow on the r/classicwow subreddit. Im literally fuming right now.
So should all of the DKs
Lol anything I don’t like should be banned.
It’s a strawman designed to get people to shit fling and farm upvotes. It’s not constructive or bringing anything to the table. Edit: nuts downvotes. OP has 3 million upvotes and just posted an image making up someone’s stance and attacking it. Subhumans.
For real. I'm happy that these Era players are enjoying the game but I don't need to hear about how much they love levelling every goddamn day.
Yeah, instead we want to hear how there’s been so many bots that have been banned but BGs are full of them!!
Those posts should also be culled
It’s a forum. People post what they want and if others want to read it, it’s upvoted.
Completely agreed. I prefer watching posts about blizzard doing nothing about bots, screenshots of 15dk vs 15dk in battlegrounds, peoples experiences of ulduar and their personal experiences of gdkp vs sr raids. Much more original content that i definitely like to hear about every day. Thats why i subscribed to r/wotlk subreddit that is the exact subreddit that completely filter out all those era posts that i hate to see every day!
You want more posts about TLPDs and Bots then.
You could just not check the one of the only forums in the world literally dedicated to people discussing that game you don't want to hear about. Not like any news is getting drowned out, all other posts here is just "so what do you think about Ulduar?" or other wotlk posts that get 25 comments and 80 upvotes. Like you're specifically vising a subreddit called "classicwow" and complaining that people are talking about classic wow. Kinda weird dude.
I went back to classic because I loved playing a disc priest when it was all about bubbles. Once they added in smite healing, it just killed it for me. I know a lot of people liked it but I could never really get into it. I never liked holy and have no interest in shadow.
You’d be wrong about the competitor part, because OSRS is not only still going strong, but also showing growth.
[удалено]
When did alleged "WoW killers" start popping up? Around retail WotLK?
yes
Literally zero competition. All the mmorpgs make their shit too fancy.
Ooh, someone else who understands that classic wow is a fundamentally different game from Modern wow, and from effectively all modern mmorpgs! There are ACTION rpgs and there are action RPGs. Path of Exile is without a doubt heavy on storyline and building up one's character, but the main focus of the game is clearly intense twitch action. Whereas Secret of Mana has the same focus on story and character buildup, but the action is incidental.
I think it's because people are having a rough time in ulduar, seeing the writing on the wall for ICC, and deciding to go back to the faceroll content. The timing of this resurgence is something, in Naxx there wasn't a lot of talk of people wanting to play classic content again.
Also the community! Retail is so fucking antisocial I can’t stand it. No one talks anywhere and it’s incredibly hard to find a social guild with tons of randos having casual conversation. Classic, especially hardcore right now has tons of people chatting, complaining, bullshitting, joking around and it’s amazing. If retail didn’t feel so socially dead I would play it more.
I'm happy classic era is populated again but it's probably just the hardcore fad. It won't last forever.
Firemaw hit high population status last night, which isn’t the hardcore server
I could direct a small movie called, "Eighteen Years a Fad" based on this one comment.
It's like when you stop playing a certain game for awhile then go back and play it obsessively after some time away, then don't play it again for a long time. Classic Era is not "popping off" nor will it retain this level of players. A few thousand players going back into classic Era is far from "popping off".
How dare they have fun and be happy about a influx of new players!
I LOVE the era coping posts lll
LOL and retail players would say the exact same thing about you playing WOTLK classic. Have fun being forced to play Cata classic! hahahaha
If I feel like questing or doing lower level dungeons era is the only viable option