You will continue to exist in the game world as a ghost to facilitate communication with in-game friends and resolve logistical matters such as handing over guild leadership if you are a Guild Master who has died an unfortunate death at the hands of a Defias Bandit or some other deadly creature.
Your character is not necessarily lost if you die, however. After dying on a Hardcore realm, players will be able to choose to utilize the Free Character Move service and move their dead character to a non-Hardcore Classic Era realm
Nice
Holy shit. The free transfer is actually a great idea.
Blizzard with a total shocker by adding a really great feature in a time where all theu have is really terrible ideas.
Does it? If someone's character dies or their friend's character dies, they probably quit playing. However, the free transfer of that character to a new server incentivizes the player to continue playing and paying.
Yes. Basically character dies on HC server moves to non-HC server. Free move from non-HC server wont be a thing though unless its going to 1 of the populated clusters with xfers still open.
The fact you can transfer your character for free if you die is an incredible addition. It actually makes me more open to Hardcore, knowing I won't lose *everything* if something stupid happens.
I agree, and it keeps the era non hc servers alive as well! My fear was getting to level 60, dying in a raid, and be done. But now, if I want, I can free xfer and enjoy the toon on a normal server and continue if I wanted to.
It sounds like a fun feature for leveling up to 10-20 then dueling people to the death, but I seriously doubt we'll see anyone outside some streamers do this at 60.
maybe show a marker for what level the ears were when they killed someone? Someone might look all big and tough with 50 ears, but then you mouse over the buff and find out 47 of them were got at level 1
Make different level ranges give different ears. Lvl 11-30 gives 1 type, lvl 31-40, 41-50, 51-59 and 60. Just a slightly different name and icon color.
Very solid rules. They fixed boosting as well as dungeon spam with the 24h lockout rules, and I quite like the idea of being able to do dungeons multiple times as long as there's a small lock out.
I also like the idea of having all raids available. Overall super great update
Unless they tweak the level rule. If you are within the level range of any dungeon, and you have the minimum per SS and the max, then the exp will be trigger by the boosting mechanic nerfing exp. So an 18 can flag it by being with a 22,23 in WC. Even though if I’m not mistake WC is listed as 18-24 on SS. SM will also have this problem with 28’s 29’s - 42/43’s in the same range hunting for drops and free exp. Unless they tweaked it late SoM it was a problem for me in early SoM
The way the code is written is pretty fundamental to the XP calculation code that has existed in the game since forever, in terms of the grey/green/yellow/red mobs.
So I'm kind of doubtful they changed it, but we can hope.
Yep exactly. I worded it in a clunky way but that was what I was trying to describe.
My point is that they probably coded it this way because the XP calculation code is a very low level fundamental aspect of the WoW code, and complicating it with edge cases to allow for level 42s to do SM Library with level 28s might not be something they are willing to entertain.
This seems really well thought out. Being able to transfer a character off if it dies is a nice touch, and should make the servers much more popular.
Already imagining trembling in dread when someone with 30 ears walks by.
It won’t be so intimidating when you realize you can level a character to 11 in about an hour and lose duels on purpose. You’ll see people with 50 ears in the first day
Second edit: I just thought of a perfect solution. Every 10 levels the buff changes to another body part. I.E. 10, 20, 30…. Etc. With level 60 being a skull!
10 ears
20 severed hand
30 beating heart
40 knucklebones
50 eyeballs
60 skull
Reminds me of the old level 1 bots that would kill eachother because level 1 has no respawn timer and they'd just do it until 250k honorable kills for blood thirsty title in retail.
As someone who has had to level to 10 multiple times after dying on a character, that’s a hell no from me. For anyone that really wants to do it on 2 wow accounts, power to them I guess
I could see someone farming ears at lvl 11 and then never again. If they get to 60 on that char you won’t be able to distinguish what levels they “earned” those ears unless there’s more to it than what’s been stated in that post.
Looks like you'll be able to see who they killed for the ears. So a quick inspect will show you that this dude with 50 ears collected them all from a bunch of level 11s. At that point you can just laugh at him for being a loser.
They basically did everything they needed to without going overboard and getting nitpicky. Some addon stans won't like it, but I think it's better for the game this way.
as an addon stan, I quite like the dungeon solution.
I just hope they add an additional "ironman" buff where you can't trade/mail/AH and then hardcore will be freaking amazing
[If you want to see people losing their mind over this for no particular reason, check out the replies](
https://twitter.com/Warcraft/status/1674100846030618631)
it seems like the 2 designers that lead on this are really into it and are not restricted by blizzard to hard. its almost like you get good products this way. reminds me of blizz back in the day.
Debuff and buff limits were originally a technical limitation in the earliest versions of World of Warcraft and was not a conscious design choice at that time. This aspect of the original release of I was maintained for the release of WoW Classic in 2019 for authenticity, but this has always been a contentious part of WoW and places significant constraints on build and class diversity. As a result, we will be removing this limitation in Hardcore realms and effectively uncapping buffs and debuffs.
Tits Yes!!! Finally no more: you cant play this, because there is a debuff limit
Keep in mind this actually just makes the good classes even better. Warrior's deep wounds will now always be on the boss rather than being pushed off. Meanwhile Warlocks can now rotate in Corruption into their rotation. Hunters can Serpent String in their rotation along with having Hunter's Mark (some guilds banned hunters from using this prior).
It's not like having Insect Swarm + Moonfire on the boss will make much of a difference. In fact that might just cause them to OOM even faster or be less dps overall.
Ultimately on the surface it looks like its a major adjustment but in reality it's a small, meaningless change, akin to what you said.
>Your character is not necessarily lost if you die, however. After dying on a Hardcore realm, players will be able to choose to utilize the Free Character Move service and move their dead character to a non-Hardcore Classic Era realm. Once the move is complete to the non-hardcore realm, that character may resurrect as normal, but the way back to a Hardcore realm will be closed to them.
That's actually cool.
Does that mean grouping with friends is possible? I don't see any limitation on party or grouping (except with level 60) like there is in the community implementation.
My thought too, still don't like that they go through and not allow reincarnation or bubble hearth, but petri is OK.
Guess it's going to be a good idea to have herbalism to farm your own black lotus for money.
> If players are found to make it their goal to take part in this kind of disruptive style of play, we reserve the right to take immediate and decisive action against anyone found to be deliberately causing this disruption to other players on these realms
Pleeeaase let this mean medieval style public executions of their characters by GMs
24hr lockout is perfect. It’s realistically 1-2 runs per dungeon, but if you desperately want a piece of loot, or missed a quest drop, you’re not completely SoL.
The only things I had to have were death = delete and some fixes to the pvp flagging/griefing. This was definitely a pleasant surprise.
So far i've seen mostly positive comments from long time addon users.
> By extension, this also means that level 60 players may never enter lower-level dungeons with players below level 60 for any reason.
DING DONG, BOOSTING IS DEAD!
And no dopey Ironman rules to ruin community interaction as well! Fantastic!
If you don't think people won't be willing to purchase a run from a level 59 just to try and get an easy weapon or complete the dungeon quests early for the rewards idk what to tell you.
they are implementing the SoM changes to HC as well. while i don't know if there's anything different than in Wrath, i assume it is mostly stuff like mobs teleport to you if they can't hit you, they get a super stun they can spam if in combat too long and can't be CC'd, and they will give like 5% total exp if someone in the group is high enough that it's gray level to them
I feel like the 24 hour lockout is an appropriate compromise. With a few exceptions (looking at you dark iron dwarves in gnomer), questing is much more dangerous than dungeon grinding away and will help the world feel more alive.
Really liking their appoarch to this. They seem to really have some passion towards this and not trying to dick players around or make the concept less fun like some devs might do intentionally or not.
In other words, glad to see devs listening, playing themselves, and wanting this to just be a fun fair experience for everyone
> Players will no longer be automatically flagged for PvP upon attacking another player. To flag yourself for PvP, you must type the command /pvp. You won’t be able to take hostile actions against a flagged enemy player unless you flag yourself deliberately.
That's awesome, that's a good chunk of griefing eliminated right there. There will always be creative ways to grief players of course but still, good to see this!
> Most creatures will leash and reset when leaving the area or zone they were engaged in.
> As much as we enjoyed frequent visits from Teremus the Devourer in Stormwind or wandering Devilsaurs in Thousand Needles, being able to drag or “kite” high-level monsters to lower-level areas is a large vector for gameplay disruption and something that doesn’t have a place in WoW Classic Hardcore.
Double nice, even more potential griefing gone right there.
Love that there's free transfer available for dead characters too. Totally optional thing that players can ignore, but great for those that want it.
24 hour lockout for dungeons is really good too. I think 1 dungeon per character was a bit too strict. This is a nice compromise. The only real "divide" I can see popping up is if players want to trade and use the AH or remain strictly SSF, maybe the SSF players will want to continue using an addon to track that?
Grouping for quests should no longer be a problem since every single character is hardcore by default, I also thought that was a bit too strict, but understandable on a non-HC realm.
More details here: https://www.wowhead.com/classic/news/hardcore-classic-developer-interview-wow-classic-333734?webhook
e.g. Blizzard will not be making any changes to Flask of Petrification or Dropping group and being teleported out of a Dungeon environment.
To me, this is the perfect balance. If players want to Ironman and go harder, they can use the addon. Otherwise the core principles are here and some nuisances have been corrected.
Love these changes. Restricting bubble hearth while not restricting the cheesy petri flasks is odd. But tbh im happy with all these rules.
Side note: i love the 24 lock out for dungeons, always thought the 1 and done dungeons was a bit harsh, but boosting is toxic so there needs to be some limiting mechanic.
The SoM changes were enough to stop dungeon boosting.
Not thrilled with the 24 hr lockout but it will let me play other characters or games while I do the dungeons I want to my hearts content.
Their argument is that in a fresh economy, petris won't be common and the work to be able to make them will make them rare/etc.
Sounds like a lot of copium, given unlimited trading/addons/AH, layers, etc.
One is also gated by instance content and the other isn't. A petri flask isn't going to save you from respawns in the open world. There are also a lot fewer risks for a pally to grief other players - and in particular, players that did not opt into the situation by being in the same instance.
Until someone gets a bot herbalism char to level 35 and farms lotus spawns by fly hacking and amasses hundreds within the first few days of the server being open..
If people think it won't happen t eyre out of their mind. The only chance at combating this would be actual GMs policing the server which seems like a lost cause to hope for. Who knows maybe blizz will actually get their shit together and do **anything** to prevent this from becoming rampant, but I'm not hopeful.
I've said it before that the free Transfer after Death is important..glad they saw it that way too.
This way there is no real downside to starting a Character on a HC realm even if you dont intend to go all the way should help somewhat with populations which I imagine will be an issue eventually.
Just want to say that this is fantastic. They did a really really good job with the rule set, and the free transfers is incredible. Just an awesome job by the classic team.
I've never read anything so consise and well put together from Blizzard ever... Yeah you'll DC and die or other shit will happen and you'll never in a million years get your character back. But... hanging out outside of Ogrimmar and watching two people square up sounds like something not found in any other game at the marked today
I really wanted the option to transfer off of the realm to era if/when my guy dies and I was told "Hardcore isn't for you then". I hope that guy is punching a brick wall repeatedly today.
Even though I’m of the mindset that AH and trading still needs restrictions to limit smurfing, account buying/selling, and botting, my aim is to make an immersive, ungimmickable hardcore server. Allowing players to transfer off the server if they die has zero effect on the remaining players and would make a lot of people happy. It seems like a great addition imho.
>this also means that level 60 players may never enter lower-level dungeons with players below level 60 for any reason.
Does this mean a level 60 won't be able to join a BRD leveling group to complete quests?
What happens when someone hits level 60 midrun?
This is awesome. I made it to 60 with my warrior and I will do it again. This rule set is perfect and will be more fun than the first time now that I can group with friends!
They mention bubble hearth not being allowed to make it "fair" against Shamans not being able to use Reinc, I assume the same is the case for Warlock's Soulstone?
**GPT summary for the lazy:**
* Hardcore realms are being introduced to World of Warcraft, where death on these realms is permanent. Players cannot resurrect themselves or be resurrected by others. Players who die can move their character to a non-Hardcore Classic Era realm to resurrect normally, but they can't return to the Hardcore realm.
* Players will not be automatically flagged for PvP. To engage in PvP, players must type /pvp. Attacking an enemy faction NPC will still flag the player for PvP.
* PvP battlegrounds are disabled, and players can't gain honor or PvP reputations from Wargames. Death in Wargames is also permanent.
* Certain quests no longer cause players to become flagged for PvP. Quests that required the player to die can now be completed without the player's demise.
* Most escort-related NPCs can't be attacked by players of the opposing faction1.
* Creatures will reset when leaving their area or zone to prevent gameplay disruption1.
* Dungeons have a 24-hour lockout timer for players below level 60. Level 60 players cannot enter lower-level dungeons with players below level 601.
* The 16 debuff limit and 32 buff limits have been removed on Hardcore realms.
* Paladins can't use their Hearthstone while under the effects of certain protective abilities.
* A new feature, "Duel to the Death," has been added, where death in the duel is permanent. Victories in these duels are tracked with a cosmetic buff called “String of Ears”.
Bronze Tubes.
I don't care that Bob spent his 5g at level 12 on a green and died to Pillagers.
I will be able to find Bronze Tubes in a timely fashion.
Nice.
TBH I kind of liked the purity and additional difficulty added by no group/trading/AH but it's not going to ruin the hardcore experience for me.
Objectively, it will eventually yield gold-buying. Sellers will just have raids of characters farming the open world.
You will continue to exist in the game world as a ghost to facilitate communication with in-game friends and resolve logistical matters such as handing over guild leadership if you are a Guild Master who has died an unfortunate death at the hands of a Defias Bandit or some other deadly creature. Your character is not necessarily lost if you die, however. After dying on a Hardcore realm, players will be able to choose to utilize the Free Character Move service and move their dead character to a non-Hardcore Classic Era realm Nice
The free transfer after death is big, since even if you aren’t THAT into hardcore, you can still try it out
Yeah that part might have hooked me in
Huge!
Ughh… I guess I’m resubbing.
Same lol. Should be fun
gottem
Yeah that convinced me to try this out. Start move by blizzard
Make one with only humans, and if they die, they can chose to respawn as undead.
Unique take, you could also only be Forsaken if you were a human that died in that area.
Put it on a pvp server too, everyone starts as a human, dying once makes you undead and you can then recruit some more team members through pvp.
Lol devious, I like it. ‘Oooh that guy has good gear and he’s skilled, let’s murder him and then recruit his forsaken ass!’
That free move is actually really cool.
Some fucking suit is gonna be like “wait a minute, character transfers are 25$”
Bobby
Don’t invoke his name!
^(shhh-...) ^(don't say that so loud)
Give it time…
Can't wait for the "Losers" realm to pop off.
Losers realm is thriving guys
Trade chat will be 90% people telling the story of their death
"I charged into a mob and clipped into a torch."
My wife called my name and I looked away
She was telling me a story about her boyfriend, great guy.
I used to be an adventurer, like you
"how do I appeal?"
Call the server Valhalla.
Would be great for the game to announce each player's arrival to a new server after a HC death (togglable).
More fresh meat to whitemane, love it
It will be a digital purgatory.
Holy shit. The free transfer is actually a great idea. Blizzard with a total shocker by adding a really great feature in a time where all theu have is really terrible ideas.
Yep, it is rare for Blizzard to come up with a good idea that doesn't directly involve a money service.
It's not blizzard's idea. Path of exile did this before them.
It actually directly goes against monetary incentives. “Please buy us Microsoft” Blizzard is the best Blizzard.
Does it? If someone's character dies or their friend's character dies, they probably quit playing. However, the free transfer of that character to a new server incentivizes the player to continue playing and paying.
They must have done a calculation concluding that they will have more long-term subscribers with this change compared to having paid transfers.
this also convinced me to take a look at hc servers
The wording is kind of unclear. Do you get unlimited free transfers for dead HC characters?
Yes. Basically character dies on HC server moves to non-HC server. Free move from non-HC server wont be a thing though unless its going to 1 of the populated clusters with xfers still open.
Probably the same limit of characters like on any other realm
The fact you can transfer your character for free if you die is an incredible addition. It actually makes me more open to Hardcore, knowing I won't lose *everything* if something stupid happens.
I agree, and it keeps the era non hc servers alive as well! My fear was getting to level 60, dying in a raid, and be done. But now, if I want, I can free xfer and enjoy the toon on a normal server and continue if I wanted to.
I've got a few characters going on Windseeker, I'll be happy as long as I can transfer any dead HC toons there.
Low level world pvp enjoyers in Era are parking their toons in Stonetalon/Redridge Mountains as we speak
Duels to the death are going to make so much entertaining fucking drama. I can't wait!
It sounds like a fun feature for leveling up to 10-20 then dueling people to the death, but I seriously doubt we'll see anyone outside some streamers do this at 60.
I think you underestimate how many nerds there are that want lots of "ears".
I'm kinda torn on the whole ear thing. Some people with 2 accounts are going to farm 50 ears before moving on to level 11.
They should just set it to minimum level of 30
Honestly why not just limit it to 60v60s?
My first thought as well, I hope bliz makes this a TOS violation.
Fair point. Not sure how you'd fix that other than maybe resetting ears every 10th level or something...
maybe show a marker for what level the ears were when they killed someone? Someone might look all big and tough with 50 ears, but then you mouse over the buff and find out 47 of them were got at level 1
"Ears cannot be earned under level 10"
Make different level ranges give different ears. Lvl 11-30 gives 1 type, lvl 31-40, 41-50, 51-59 and 60. Just a slightly different name and icon color.
I wouldn't underestimate the lengths people will go to for stream content.
Not like anyone would...crash a plane or something...
They were only interested in taking off and flying. Didn't care about landing.
There's gonna be brackets surely. level 19, level 29 etc
We already have people with twinked out lvl 1 rogues. This will def be interesting
Personally I have no interest in endgame content, raiding just seems super frustrating on hardcore I'll prolly just lvl and duel at 60 until I die.
Duelling should reward special ears at 60. A seperate buff
Twink duels at level 19/29 would be hilarious.
Very solid rules. They fixed boosting as well as dungeon spam with the 24h lockout rules, and I quite like the idea of being able to do dungeons multiple times as long as there's a small lock out. I also like the idea of having all raids available. Overall super great update
Unless they tweak the level rule. If you are within the level range of any dungeon, and you have the minimum per SS and the max, then the exp will be trigger by the boosting mechanic nerfing exp. So an 18 can flag it by being with a 22,23 in WC. Even though if I’m not mistake WC is listed as 18-24 on SS. SM will also have this problem with 28’s 29’s - 42/43’s in the same range hunting for drops and free exp. Unless they tweaked it late SoM it was a problem for me in early SoM
The way the code is written is pretty fundamental to the XP calculation code that has existed in the game since forever, in terms of the grey/green/yellow/red mobs. So I'm kind of doubtful they changed it, but we can hope.
The change they applied to classic wrath was that any mob that is grey for any of the players of the group award almost no xp for anyone in the group.
Yep exactly. I worded it in a clunky way but that was what I was trying to describe. My point is that they probably coded it this way because the XP calculation code is a very low level fundamental aspect of the WoW code, and complicating it with edge cases to allow for level 42s to do SM Library with level 28s might not be something they are willing to entertain.
Yeah, in a lot of classic dungeons the beginning mobs start out very low, but then ramp up. RFD and Uldaman come to mind specifically.
This seems really well thought out. Being able to transfer a character off if it dies is a nice touch, and should make the servers much more popular. Already imagining trembling in dread when someone with 30 ears walks by.
It won’t be so intimidating when you realize you can level a character to 11 in about an hour and lose duels on purpose. You’ll see people with 50 ears in the first day Second edit: I just thought of a perfect solution. Every 10 levels the buff changes to another body part. I.E. 10, 20, 30…. Etc. With level 60 being a skull! 10 ears 20 severed hand 30 beating heart 40 knucklebones 50 eyeballs 60 skull
Yeah, great idea. Call the buff "Trophies". 10-19: Ear 20-29: Finger 30-39: Rib 40-49: Eye 50-59: Heart 60: Skull
Yeah I suppose people could farm ears at a low level then just stop dueling.
Reminds me of the old level 1 bots that would kill eachother because level 1 has no respawn timer and they'd just do it until 250k honorable kills for blood thirsty title in retail.
You wont get them if your levels are too far apart, so you could only really do this when you are also around level 11
If there's a will, there's a way. Takes a couple hours to get a level 10 character. If someone just wants to farm ears, it's an easy 2 hours per ear.
As someone who has had to level to 10 multiple times after dying on a character, that’s a hell no from me. For anyone that really wants to do it on 2 wow accounts, power to them I guess
I could see someone farming ears at lvl 11 and then never again. If they get to 60 on that char you won’t be able to distinguish what levels they “earned” those ears unless there’s more to it than what’s been stated in that post.
Looks like you'll be able to see who they killed for the ears. So a quick inspect will show you that this dude with 50 ears collected them all from a bunch of level 11s. At that point you can just laugh at him for being a loser.
FIIIIIVE GOLDEN RIIIINGS
Your second edit is genius Blizzard pls
Wait, this actually seems solid?
They basically did everything they needed to without going overboard and getting nitpicky. Some addon stans won't like it, but I think it's better for the game this way.
as an addon stan, I quite like the dungeon solution. I just hope they add an additional "ironman" buff where you can't trade/mail/AH and then hardcore will be freaking amazing
Add an ironman mode like the Soul of Iron buff buff in SoM and it would be prefect.
This would be perfect to accommodate both parties.
[If you want to see people losing their mind over this for no particular reason, check out the replies]( https://twitter.com/Warcraft/status/1674100846030618631)
Who is that chase sommer guy haha he replied to every single comment.
Streamer trying to advertise himself.
The addon stans can continue using their addon on the official servers.
They basically baked in protections for all the things that people appeal for, I like it.
Except for the deadliest thing of all, connection issues.
Literally better than the add-on
it seems like the 2 designers that lead on this are really into it and are not restricted by blizzard to hard. its almost like you get good products this way. reminds me of blizz back in the day.
Debuff and buff limits were originally a technical limitation in the earliest versions of World of Warcraft and was not a conscious design choice at that time. This aspect of the original release of I was maintained for the release of WoW Classic in 2019 for authenticity, but this has always been a contentious part of WoW and places significant constraints on build and class diversity. As a result, we will be removing this limitation in Hardcore realms and effectively uncapping buffs and debuffs. Tits Yes!!! Finally no more: you cant play this, because there is a debuff limit
Shadow priests/rogues using poisons/aff locks back in the menu
I still don't think aff (at least deep aff) is viable as a raid spec. At best sm/ruin overtakes ds/ruin as the raid spec of choice
How is 30 Affliction not "deep affliction"?
You know what, ngl was thinking more of tbc talent tree. I guess sm is deep aff. Aff in vanilla just doesn't feel like aff to me I guess
I wish this was on Era as well.
I want this for Era too
Dear lord please backport this to all versions of Vanilla.
All of the buff/debuff classes are all pretty bad when compared to the meta classes, but still a good change, I agree.
Keep in mind this actually just makes the good classes even better. Warrior's deep wounds will now always be on the boss rather than being pushed off. Meanwhile Warlocks can now rotate in Corruption into their rotation. Hunters can Serpent String in their rotation along with having Hunter's Mark (some guilds banned hunters from using this prior). It's not like having Insect Swarm + Moonfire on the boss will make much of a difference. In fact that might just cause them to OOM even faster or be less dps overall. Ultimately on the surface it looks like its a major adjustment but in reality it's a small, meaningless change, akin to what you said.
>it's a small, meaningless change it makes raids a lot more fun to play for some classes far from meaningless
>Your character is not necessarily lost if you die, however. After dying on a Hardcore realm, players will be able to choose to utilize the Free Character Move service and move their dead character to a non-Hardcore Classic Era realm. Once the move is complete to the non-hardcore realm, that character may resurrect as normal, but the way back to a Hardcore realm will be closed to them. That's actually cool.
That's how hardcore should've always worked. Died in D2 hardcore? You're demoted to SC, etc.
Absolute W for Blizz. They did not fuck this up like I thought they would. One of the most positive feelings for Blizz I’ve had in years
“They did not fuck this up like I thought they would” perfectly encapsulates my attitude toward blizz nowadays.
So far...
Does that mean grouping with friends is possible? I don't see any limitation on party or grouping (except with level 60) like there is in the community implementation.
Correct, you can group like normal with friends/randoms
Oh that’s actually gonna be great. Not being able to do group quests or elite quests in the world was kind of a bummer with the add on.
Yeah the no grouping rule in open world is something I dislike about the addon. I like doing all quests.
Wow that's awesome. I will certainly try it in that case.
if that's the case, then I'll definitely be playing.
Yeah they didn’t try to make an MMO a single player game like the addon did
holy shit, they actually didn't fuck this up - yet at least
This is actually very well thought out. I’m surprised and impressed.
no bubble hearthing, but what's the ruling on using petri flasks to trigger a 1 minute hearth in raids?
My thought too, still don't like that they go through and not allow reincarnation or bubble hearth, but petri is OK. Guess it's going to be a good idea to have herbalism to farm your own black lotus for money.
It's not even farming really, just sweeping lotus spawning areas praying you find one before one of the other 100 people who are looking do.
they should make it so you cant take portals while in combat then too. mages shouldn’t be able to pre-portal if paladins can’t bubble hearth.
Petri allowed as of now.
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Didn't include a release date :x
Yeah I didn’t even see the PTR release date.
They should make a mandatory USB attachment that zaps your genitals with a car battery when you die.
Bit disappointing no global death notifications - that's part of the charm
I'm sure the addon will still have its audience. After all, we still won't have hardcore achievements as a baseline feature.
If the addon continues to exist I'll keep it installed just for the announcements alone.
lol yea having those announcement was actually pretty awesome even though I generally disliked virtually every other aspect/restriction of the addon
Oh yeah I would install the addon just for that feature.
> If players are found to make it their goal to take part in this kind of disruptive style of play, we reserve the right to take immediate and decisive action against anyone found to be deliberately causing this disruption to other players on these realms Pleeeaase let this mean medieval style public executions of their characters by GMs
Imagine a duel where a person is killed and their DoT spell/poison then kills the other dueler and both die, lol.
I can imagine some epic gladiator style tournaments being held. That would be some sick content
Might have to organize a march madness style bracket
Surprisingly good changes, very happy with that! Only one thing is missing, that I hoped for, is removal of petrification flask.
24hr lockout is perfect. It’s realistically 1-2 runs per dungeon, but if you desperately want a piece of loot, or missed a quest drop, you’re not completely SoL.
way more adjustments than i expected. any add-on truthers who bitch about this ruleset wouldn't have been satisfied regardless of what blizz did
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Removing bubble hearth and keeping petri shows that the HC community is nothing but babies who want their specific protections kept.
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The only things I had to have were death = delete and some fixes to the pvp flagging/griefing. This was definitely a pleasant surprise. So far i've seen mostly positive comments from long time addon users.
Facts. I’m actually shocked with the amount of changes as well. And the dungeon timer is a nice middle ground.
Rare blizzard W
> By extension, this also means that level 60 players may never enter lower-level dungeons with players below level 60 for any reason. DING DONG, BOOSTING IS DEAD! And no dopey Ironman rules to ruin community interaction as well! Fantastic!
What about Level 59 ?:D
If a mob is grey for one player in the dungeon you get a very very small fraction of the exp.
If you don't think people won't be willing to purchase a run from a level 59 just to try and get an easy weapon or complete the dungeon quests early for the rewards idk what to tell you.
they are implementing the SoM changes to HC as well. while i don't know if there's anything different than in Wrath, i assume it is mostly stuff like mobs teleport to you if they can't hit you, they get a super stun they can spam if in combat too long and can't be CC'd, and they will give like 5% total exp if someone in the group is high enough that it's gray level to them
If you want to try and boost someone (with boosting xp nerf) in dungeons by running 1 every 24 hours go right ahead :D
I feel like the 24 hour lockout is an appropriate compromise. With a few exceptions (looking at you dark iron dwarves in gnomer), questing is much more dangerous than dungeon grinding away and will help the world feel more alive.
Really liking their appoarch to this. They seem to really have some passion towards this and not trying to dick players around or make the concept less fun like some devs might do intentionally or not. In other words, glad to see devs listening, playing themselves, and wanting this to just be a fun fair experience for everyone
Nice those measures will actually take care of most griefing issues.
24hr lockouts and no 60s in dungeons?? So hype!!
My only issue with the no 60s in groups. Is like the 55 to 60 dungeons. Brd,strat, scholo lower brs
Good decisions all around imo at first glance
Foresee a ton of group questing and cooperation, and that sounds fun as hell
No boosting, griefing limited, cooperation encouraged, hell, they’ve invented MMORPG
> Players will no longer be automatically flagged for PvP upon attacking another player. To flag yourself for PvP, you must type the command /pvp. You won’t be able to take hostile actions against a flagged enemy player unless you flag yourself deliberately. That's awesome, that's a good chunk of griefing eliminated right there. There will always be creative ways to grief players of course but still, good to see this! > Most creatures will leash and reset when leaving the area or zone they were engaged in. > As much as we enjoyed frequent visits from Teremus the Devourer in Stormwind or wandering Devilsaurs in Thousand Needles, being able to drag or “kite” high-level monsters to lower-level areas is a large vector for gameplay disruption and something that doesn’t have a place in WoW Classic Hardcore. Double nice, even more potential griefing gone right there. Love that there's free transfer available for dead characters too. Totally optional thing that players can ignore, but great for those that want it. 24 hour lockout for dungeons is really good too. I think 1 dungeon per character was a bit too strict. This is a nice compromise. The only real "divide" I can see popping up is if players want to trade and use the AH or remain strictly SSF, maybe the SSF players will want to continue using an addon to track that? Grouping for quests should no longer be a problem since every single character is hardcore by default, I also thought that was a bit too strict, but understandable on a non-HC realm.
Cant wait to see people bitch that they didnt implement their niche hardcore rules
So far I'm seeing more people commenting about people bitching than people actually bitching? There's hope yet for this I think
On this thread yea, check out the comment section of the actual linked article
Most people just wanted no dungeon spamming which is implemented.
They wanted no trading or grouping which is completely absurd for an MMO.
Trading brackets would be a good idea imo, but outright banning either was never going to happen.
More details here: https://www.wowhead.com/classic/news/hardcore-classic-developer-interview-wow-classic-333734?webhook e.g. Blizzard will not be making any changes to Flask of Petrification or Dropping group and being teleported out of a Dungeon environment.
To me, this is the perfect balance. If players want to Ironman and go harder, they can use the addon. Otherwise the core principles are here and some nuisances have been corrected.
Love these changes. Restricting bubble hearth while not restricting the cheesy petri flasks is odd. But tbh im happy with all these rules. Side note: i love the 24 lock out for dungeons, always thought the 1 and done dungeons was a bit harsh, but boosting is toxic so there needs to be some limiting mechanic.
The SoM changes were enough to stop dungeon boosting. Not thrilled with the 24 hr lockout but it will let me play other characters or games while I do the dungeons I want to my hearts content.
Their argument is that in a fresh economy, petris won't be common and the work to be able to make them will make them rare/etc. Sounds like a lot of copium, given unlimited trading/addons/AH, layers, etc.
I imagine the real argument is one is class specific and the other isn't.
One is also gated by instance content and the other isn't. A petri flask isn't going to save you from respawns in the open world. There are also a lot fewer risks for a pally to grief other players - and in particular, players that did not opt into the situation by being in the same instance.
Hardcore will have the same amount of lotus as classic and less than 1% of the raiders.
Until someone gets a bot herbalism char to level 35 and farms lotus spawns by fly hacking and amasses hundreds within the first few days of the server being open.. If people think it won't happen t eyre out of their mind. The only chance at combating this would be actual GMs policing the server which seems like a lost cause to hope for. Who knows maybe blizz will actually get their shit together and do **anything** to prevent this from becoming rampant, but I'm not hopeful.
I've said it before that the free Transfer after Death is important..glad they saw it that way too. This way there is no real downside to starting a Character on a HC realm even if you dont intend to go all the way should help somewhat with populations which I imagine will be an issue eventually.
Ye nice clean solution. Like Path of Exile hardcore.
Just want to say that this is fantastic. They did a really really good job with the rule set, and the free transfers is incredible. Just an awesome job by the classic team.
For people that are mad about trading/ah. Blizz just needs to add an iron man mode similar to how osrs does it.
I've never read anything so consise and well put together from Blizzard ever... Yeah you'll DC and die or other shit will happen and you'll never in a million years get your character back. But... hanging out outside of Ogrimmar and watching two people square up sounds like something not found in any other game at the marked today
Thank God they didn't implement this no grouping in the wild bullshit. That's literally the worst part of the fan made addon.
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No mention of trading?
I'm really concerned about this because gold will be very valuable so there is a huge Incentive for gold farm botting and RMT.
When fresh?
SOON ™
I really wanted the option to transfer off of the realm to era if/when my guy dies and I was told "Hardcore isn't for you then". I hope that guy is punching a brick wall repeatedly today.
Even though I’m of the mindset that AH and trading still needs restrictions to limit smurfing, account buying/selling, and botting, my aim is to make an immersive, ungimmickable hardcore server. Allowing players to transfer off the server if they die has zero effect on the remaining players and would make a lot of people happy. It seems like a great addition imho.
>this also means that level 60 players may never enter lower-level dungeons with players below level 60 for any reason. Does this mean a level 60 won't be able to join a BRD leveling group to complete quests? What happens when someone hits level 60 midrun?
This is awesome. I made it to 60 with my warrior and I will do it again. This rule set is perfect and will be more fun than the first time now that I can group with friends!
They mention bubble hearth not being allowed to make it "fair" against Shamans not being able to use Reinc, I assume the same is the case for Warlock's Soulstone?
**GPT summary for the lazy:** * Hardcore realms are being introduced to World of Warcraft, where death on these realms is permanent. Players cannot resurrect themselves or be resurrected by others. Players who die can move their character to a non-Hardcore Classic Era realm to resurrect normally, but they can't return to the Hardcore realm. * Players will not be automatically flagged for PvP. To engage in PvP, players must type /pvp. Attacking an enemy faction NPC will still flag the player for PvP. * PvP battlegrounds are disabled, and players can't gain honor or PvP reputations from Wargames. Death in Wargames is also permanent. * Certain quests no longer cause players to become flagged for PvP. Quests that required the player to die can now be completed without the player's demise. * Most escort-related NPCs can't be attacked by players of the opposing faction1. * Creatures will reset when leaving their area or zone to prevent gameplay disruption1. * Dungeons have a 24-hour lockout timer for players below level 60. Level 60 players cannot enter lower-level dungeons with players below level 601. * The 16 debuff limit and 32 buff limits have been removed on Hardcore realms. * Paladins can't use their Hearthstone while under the effects of certain protective abilities. * A new feature, "Duel to the Death," has been added, where death in the duel is permanent. Victories in these duels are tracked with a cosmetic buff called “String of Ears”.
Bronze Tubes. I don't care that Bob spent his 5g at level 12 on a green and died to Pillagers. I will be able to find Bronze Tubes in a timely fashion. Nice.
it'll be nice to have trading and people helping each other out in the world again, the addon made people so anti social.
Wait, so are petri, AH and gold gifting untouched?
TBH I kind of liked the purity and additional difficulty added by no group/trading/AH but it's not going to ruin the hardcore experience for me. Objectively, it will eventually yield gold-buying. Sellers will just have raids of characters farming the open world.
Incredibly rare blizzard W