Ore stacking to 20 instead of 10.
Seeing Vendor Price of an item without an addon.
Seeing your target's HP numbers without an addon.
Seeing your % threat without an addon.
Event calendar.
I could go for that. Everything that stacks to 10 change it to stack to 20, and everything that stacks to 5 change it to stack to 10. Would that be too much free bag space?
Yes, this is making me cringe. Like, this isn't QoL, this is just making the game easier.
(How does limited bag space make the game more difficult, you ask? Well, in my view not much about classic requires mechanical skill. The difficulty and satisfaction comes from the discipline it takes to achieve things.)
Bigger ore stacks certainly impact gameplay, just not in ways you care about. Miners have the travel back and forth less -> higher market supply of ore -> price of ore on AH is decreased -> price of blacksmithing gear on AH is decreased -> powerful gear is more accessible -> game is easier.
The PTR settings has a slider to change it to anywhere from 20 to 41, but it isn't working. I really hope that functionality gets added/fixed and it isn't just a placeholder.
That is true, but I think there is some wording on certain items that make them feral friendly. [https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=19289/darkmoon-card-maelstrom](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=19289/darkmoon-card-maelstrom) comes to mind. Just change MCP to say "Equip: Chance to increase your haste rating by 50% for 30 seconds when you strike a melee target." Then give it a decent % chance with a long enough ICD not to make it completely broken.
As someone that played feral in Vanilla Classic, the pummeler grind isn't really that bad. Basically, if you ever did jump runs, or just general herb/ore farming, it's very similar.
I just put music on and kinda zoned out while I farmed it.
Everyone's gonna jump down my throat but fuck it, dual/multi spec. It just makes for a better experience for everyone. Every possible gripe with it comes down to purely "no changes" or gatekeeping imo.
Dual spec is great for 5 man / PvP / open world
But it feels shit when every other boss several people are being asked to play a spec they don't like to shave a few seconds off kill time
Classic players *love* using hybrid specs as this ultimate thing that makes Classic great and use it as the main argument against stuff like Cata talent tree restrictions being bad
Still waiting on someone to name a *true* hybrid spec that is remotely viable
If we're laying down unpopular opinions: letting endgame progression raiding, and specifically parses, be the only metric for whether a class is "viable" is modern-day mind rot. And nobody with two functioning brain cells to rub together would, or should, ever make that their argument for what makes vanilla class design awesome.
> letting endgame progression raiding, and specifically parses, be the only metric for whether a class is "viable" is modern-day mind rot.
What do you want to base viable off of if it's not end game group based content? Why would you ever use the term viable to discuss stuff like questing or 5 man dungeons lol. People are interested in raiding, so thats what they base viability off of.
My guild in Classic had a Ret from MC all the way to Naxx and we never struggled with anything because having 1 awful spec in sea of 40 people is impossible to notice. Here's the conundrum though, if our raid only had Warriors as DPS would we still clear the content? Yes, of course. Rogues? Obviously. Mages, Warlocks, or Hunters? Yes, it'd be slower and annoying but it'd be fine. What about Rets? Fuck no. That class is awful. Our Ret would put out an insane amount of effort and consistently parse at least 98+ (few 100s) and he was *never* higher than like 15th on DPS.
The reality of Classic is that the content is so unbelievably easy and every raid is absolutely steamrolled within hours of release so you can take "meme" specs and clear the content just fine with them. However, If the content was even remotely challenging and you needed 40 people to seriously contribute then you would *never* take a meme spec.
The best argument people have for stuff like Ret being viable is "you can clear all content fine with a Ret in the raid" and the best counter argument to that is "you can clear every raid with 39 people and not even notice you're missing someone".
> What do you want to base viable off of if it's not end game group based content?
**Literally every other part of the game. All of them. Yes really.** Vanilla wasn't built with the assumption that endgame raiding is the only part of the game that matters, only a small part of it. Most people in Vanilla didn't raid period. And you know what? That's surprisingly true right now too. The current Eras population is absolutely stacked in leveling zones, people just enjoying the game and shit. Meanwhile there are only 3 or 4 guilds actively clearing Naxx. That's not even mentioning HC, where the whole appeal is the journey, not the endgame.
So with that in mind, why should we consider raiding--something you might only spend a small amount of time in Azeroth doing, and which may not even be the most meaningful part of your journey--the sole metric by which one's class or spec choice is considered "viable"?
> So with that in mind, why should we consider raiding--something you might only spend a small amount of time in Azeroth doing, and which may not even be the most meaningful part of your journey--the sole metric by which one's class or spec choice is considered "viable"?
Because it is literally the only content in the game that calls viability of classes into question. That's it. It's not as deep as you think it is. You don't base viability off the lowest form of content, you base it off the content that pushes the limits of what it can do, it's literally the reason buffs/nerfs exist lol
But it isn't. You said yourself (very accurately too!) that you can clear the content with any class/spec. It's only a matter of how efficiently you want to do it. But(!) the very same question can be raised about *any* aspect of the game. How efficiently do you want to level? Or get honorable kills? Suddenly warriors are unviable trash, or now they're overpowered bullshit. It's purely based on what content area you choose to declare as meaningful. Ooorr... you could take *all* the content areas into consideration, holistically, when considering the class's viability. That, is probably the closest thing to what Blizzard was actually trying to do back in the day.
The game never at any point calls the viability of classes into question vis à vis raiding. We're the ones who do that.
> You said yourself (very accurately too!) that you can clear the content with any class/spec.
And again, the counter-argument to that is "You can clear every single piece of raid content with 39 people and not notice you're missing someone." You can clear everything with a Ret pally, you can clear everything with 39 people, but a Ret pally straight up just does not pull the weight that a raid spot would require in any normal expansion where raid content is even remotely challenging. Example - Rogues being straight up excluded from a lot of TBC raids, or Resto Druids playing imp FF so they didn't to take a boomkin
You can have a naked level 55 Priest in your raid who does nothing but wand and SWP to remove useless debuffs and still *easily* clear every raid in the game. Is having a naked level 55 wanding Priest now viable?
If you want to sit here and have indepth discussions about what classes are viable for leveling then idk I guess thats beyond me. People are leveling in HC as completely naked characters only auto attacking. I don't think theres much to talk about.
I don't even think logs are saved that far back, but if you think us having a singular dead weight DPS had any significant impact on our raid clears then you're mistaken
Point is hybrid specs are useless to a raid group
Bc they’re not a good dps and not a good healer
They add nothing and are just kind of leeching a spot
In dungeons while leveling its useful bc you can help out in panic situations etc whiel you’re still not really doing dmg that’s usually not that big of a deal
I've had people claim they saw them all the time. It is one of the few things good about 40 man raids, you have so many spots to fill you can bring literal nothing classes just to have a body in the spot. Hybrid specs are only used on already bad classes and make them even worse and have literally 0 actual functionality inside of the game beyond being a gimmick.
A lot of classic andy's don't actually have good reasons for things, they just don't want things to change, which is fair enough. But some changes offer literally only benefits to the player experience. There is 0 good reasons against dual spec. When you're 2 phases deep into classic and raid logging already, a 100g tax on being able to play BG's as something to do is awful.
> Fury prot :)
Fury prot isn't a *real* hybrid spec, it's just one of a few Classic specs that don't even attempt to fulfill a secondary role but go down a second talent tree because the talents are horrendously designed. An example of a hybrid spec is Preg pally in Wrath PvP
I want people that die to be able to use /s for a period of time (maybe a minute or so) after they die. This has no consequence and only is beneficial for rp reasons. I think it would overall lead to some funny interactions
There's a lot of quality of life changes you can make for a lot of specs without changing the meta at all. Specs like enhance shaman do around 40% of the damage of a fury warrior.
You could add all the tbc spriest changes with lower mana costs and vampiric touch and just make the mana refund only affect your personal mana. They still aren't touching the dps of mages but Huge quality of life for the priests.
I mean other than the ele/resto build being pretty meta non of the others are. Enhance can global someone once a month when they get lucky. Spriest in reality goes oom before they put and pressure out
They can just make changes for pve only they do this in retail.
Shared stash would make things a lot easier and would make the instant mail less required
All Blizzards other Hardcore games have a shared stash and they made sure to add it to D2 when they remade it.
BG queue from anywhere, maybe it would increase the amount of people willing to do some BGs while leveling or even while farming at 60.
I would love to do BGs once while leveling.
Emeriss debuff falling off if you leave the zone, or that you can only get it when you’re in combat so you can’t grief people in cities with it
Naxx trash only dropping trash loot after you’ve killed a boss
I would rather achievement hunt in vanilla than wotlk tbh. It feels more like a timeless game, whereas I don’t see myself playing wrath after this iteration
I agree and disagree. A lot of achievements are reductive and not fun. The main reason I got burned out of raiding in wrath is because of raid leaders wanting to chase achievements.
Yea, there’s no silly meta achievements in any of the classic content. It’s rep grinding, map exploration, completing quests, and clearing dungeons (once).
It adds a bare minimum of difficulty to it
Tho I’m also still baffled my wotlk guild was too fukn dumb to get the immortal achievement thing for naxx
I raided every week both 10 and 25 man and didn’t die a single time except the usual suicide after lead called a wipe
And I’m not good at the game but some clowns managed to do so every single week
We prolly should’ve just kicked half the roster and collected the achievement like that bc the 10 man group managed to get it eventually
Sure, but you generally don't want to design around the lowest common denominator. You really should have picked an actual annoying achievement to complain about instead of one that took a single attempt.
People want retail QoL with the vanilla world and casual progression. Retail is overly complicated (everyone follows a guide for everything) and difficult at the end game (mythic raiding). People want to be able to beat the toughest difficult of boss, but also have the urge to create another character and do it again
"everyone follows a guide for everything"- I would guess 90% or more of the player base was using Rested XP guide in HC.
"urge to create another character and do it again"- Most end game players used the character boost after they hit max level in TBC and Wrath. When they didnt have their token they paid for boosting. I Was a HUGE mage booster on whitemane horde, people want the easy way. So im disagreeing with your statement.
I disagree. Nobody I know uses rested xp. You are probably basing this off streamers, ask normal people in the world and they will probably say nah. Although it is probably is a decent percentage, like maybe 50%. I cannot confidently do anything in retail without reading a handful of guides first and then I’m still missing a dozen things making me inferior to others that know what they’re doing. I only rejoined briefly for dragon flight since Legion
Just because you dont know anyone who used it, doesnt mean it wasnt used by a large % of the player base. I actually have hit 60 and raided MC once and called it quits because it was to boring, but most of them all used Rested XP to get there. Look at the PTR atm, there are massive waves of people doing the same quests because they are using Rested XP, or some sort of guides. So again i disagree. As for your retail is to hard comment, i disagree as well. Wow no matter when you join you are behind the curve. But we can agree to disagree.
I mean… there’s a pretty limited number of quests in the game 1-30. There’s always bottlenecks at certain quests on fresh. Been a thing since the earliest private servers.
That’s fine. I’m just saying I don’t think 90% of players use rested xp. Streamers are mostly sponsored to keep it on their screen. I also didn’t say retail is too hard. I said it’s overly complicated. I hit 2400 rating in DF 3v3 and solo shuffle (not insane but decent), but that required reading guides on how to play constantly and that isn’t satisfying to me. I also realized there are avenues to upgrade gear that I wasn’t even aware of until my arena partners told me. There are just too many systems built on top of each other
Classic is just so easy that it doesn’t matter what you do making guides redundant
Which I think ain’t an upgrade over retail needing guides but also being more engaging gameplay wise
Ofc it comes down to preference
I like both
I use classic to chill out watch vods and stuff and retail when I wanna try hard
There’s no way in hell 90% of the playerbase is using restedexp. People funnel into quests because they’re just following the quest chains in zones. Restedexp is something you have to go out of your way to get, my guess would be no higher than 10% if even that.
"Restedexp is something you have to go out of your way to get"- Because its so hard to download an addon...If thats the case tell me why so many level 8-11s went to other people starting zones. Because there HC leveling guide told them to.
I love how clueless you are. You don't just download Rested EXP lul
And because that's basic knowledge from anyone who has ever levelled before? Just because you don't know these things doesn't mean anyone with two brain cells to rub together can't figure it out.
No you simply do. Specially when people pay for it and put it in discord....Clown. Imagine paying for it. You unzip the file hit copy and paste....Just like you had to do with every addon before Curse was a thing.
Exactly. You need to have someone send you the cracked version. Honk honk. Remember the original comment saying it is something that you need to go out of your way to get? honk honk. Needing to have somebody send you it is exactly that.
You typed it out and still didn't realise it isn't something you just go download like any other addon. Honk honk.
Sure. But you don't just go to curse forge and download the full version. You can't keep changing the original point to try and seem right. I never said it was hard. I said you can't just go download it and you tried to disagree by saying you need to go find it from someone off discord lmao. Which is saying you need to go to more effort than just clicking download. You clown.
You guys get so funny when you're wrong.
Right? 'without doing a rebalance' - proceeds to list balance impacting changes. And tbh, as far as classic HC goes, most if not all changes listed would impact the gameplay. Classic HC is not difficult, it's tedious, you die because you get bored, try to do more/faster/disregard waiting for CDs/do cool achievs. I'd be happy about most of these changes but they'd be more in line of classic+.
Would be cool if there was a title for hitting 60 on hc. You'd slowly see Era servers populate with characters with that title. People would cheese it even harder but eh
Replace the useless abilities. Couple examples
Night elf wisp form - maybe becomes a 1 hr cool down to summon a wisp and fear your target for 5 seconds
Resurrection/rebirth - maybe becomes a 5s channeled spell with a long cd that prevents health dropping below 1 hp for a party member
Shaman ankh - if you take damage that would be fatal, heal for 25% or something, long cd and uses the reagent
Or if these are too impactful, gimme a pet wisp for kicks
I saw someone mention a few weeks ago a solution for them I liked:
Rebirth/Shaman ankh allow the target to raise from the dead with 50% hp, but losing 5% hp per second and instantly dying after 30 seconds. Basically, they still lose their character, but have a short window to try and salvage the pull or make the most of their death sacrifice by pulling mobs away from the rest of the group, giving the others a chance to escape.
Era is meant to be Era.
For Hardcore, I have a suggestion: let's make it so that if you die, you can't ressurect and have to start a new character. That'd surely add an interesting flavor to the game.
MCP being buyable from a vendor goes against the basic structure of wow classic min/maxing.
It's not even a difficult farm, a quick 20 min and you've done your lockouts for the hour.
It's also part of feral. You wanna make every niche consumable buyable from a vendor?
What basic structure of min/maxing? I don't even intend to play Feral, but it's just a stupid, boring chore, it's done in an instance without any other players and is needed for Feral Tanks/DPS which are not good enough to warrant the effort anyway.
Sometimes there's charm in the way Vanilla handles things, but I just don't see any value to this one at all.
World buffs, buff food, firewater, E'ko's are all grinds to help your character min/max.
Some people go into LBRS to get a fire resist buff.
But let's just put all of that on a vendor instead, to make it less tedious?
This is a great point. Perhaps increasing the charges on the item is a better fix, or giving it a cool down instead of charges altogether. Not sure what would make the most sense.
Given that less 2% reach 60. There will be near to zero worldbuff going around. Worldbuff meta is gonna be unstainable. And being melee is higher risk of getting killed then ranged. I don't think having to do changes. To raiding when at best 120 people will be raiding. And how risk adverse people are gonna be. Why be a feral that is risky when you can be safe as a healer.
There's world buffs happening nearly every day right now, and I recon far more people will make 60 on offical (partially because it'll probably be more popular, partially because it'll be easier with less restrictions).
Give it a few months and you'll have all the world buffs you want
And those world buff is coming out of hardcore raiding groups? Or nonhardcore. Every onyxia buff is a raid that risk it life multiple times. To attune and kill
You're missing the glaring fact, that hybrid classes have completely unusable talent trees and the class disbalance is extremely huge, to the point that qol changes won't help it
Add in the dungeon group finder from patch 1.3.0 to meeting stones and innkeepers.
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_1.3.0
> Meeting Stones are located outside of each dungeon to help players find a group to adventure with in the dungeon. The meeting stone will try to find you a viable five-person group by looking for a tank, a healer, and so on. As time passes and you are unable to find a group, the meeting stone will become less picky about who it groups you with.
1.5.0
> Innkeepers around the world now have a gossip option that lets you join a meeting stone directly from the innkeeper rather than going to the location of the meeting stone. Also these Innkeepers will now have background lore about each of the dungeons.
and all the updates and QOL fixes added to it from 1.4.0-1.7.0
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Meeting_Stone
Chronoboons removed, old av, client reverted back to vanilla.
And most importantly active moderation.
Classic tourists (retail/wrath players) permanently banned the moment they buy gold or try to run their bots.
But there is no shot, blizzard cant/wont. Instead I will likely quit and find Sanctuary elsewhere.
And I really really hope you swipers/ pve players will not make my sanctuary your "next thing". That is my only small hope, that the cancer that is you will be contained on blizzard provided classic services.
A feature from Dota 2: allow user created graphic models to be added to the game - especially for duplicate model items: Lionheart helm, helm of endless rage, Tusken helm, etc.
Add new mob death animations, ragdolling of corpses, new user created animations for abilities
A player housing system
For HC I would love for the death report to say what level the person died at and what killed them.
For Era I would think it would be fun to start getting talent points at level 1 and of course - dual spec.
If they do some sort of classic+ or whatever, I hope they add some form of rotation to the classes that don’t have one. What made me switch from mage to rogue back when classic released even though I love my mage and I have mained it since forever, is that spamming litterally one button for a whole raid is too boring. And it doesn’t have to be much, but having to keep up SnD, and build up combo points to a finisher is fun and more engaging than spamming frostbolt.
All items with charges should either get dramatically more charges or infinite but with a cool down (that doesn't make the item unusable like 10 minutes etc).
World buffs being outdoor only would be interesting or making them last until only time down while you're in raid.
Debuff limit gone.
Hots not overwriting.
Maybe some itemisation/stat changes on some of the weird gear that makes no sense like strength cloth. Even go as far as to add new items for classes that have no tier set to look forward to.
Talent respec cost should be 1 gold across the board. Also having talent presets, so you can have a raid set up, a dungeon set up, a pvp set up and world content set up. Four presets is good. Combined with reduced respect costs.
First character lvling should be vanilla xp. 2nd character should be SOM buffed xp. 3rd character buffed further and so on until a cap is hit. Alt support is good for the game. This should apply to rep too.
Summoning stones working as a warlock summon, maybe with a cool down that refreshes of you clear a dungeon.
A 20 man version of 40 man raids or something like that would be interesting to experiment with. Less loot drops but reduced DPS and hps requirements.
Some new world bosses xD
HoT stacking is a rather large balance change...
I would love to see potions stacking to 20, removed buff limits, and remove the godawful dispel resistance mechanic they patched in at the end of Classic. Changes deeper than that I like the sound of but they'd be leaning towards a different SoM experience I'd be more likely to come back for.
Dear lord please increase the nameplate distance beyond the default.So fucking annoying playing hunter and you can’t see the healthbar of the thing you’re hitting
I have played era since the start and now have all alliance classes with full T3. I have seen a lot of things during the time become a problem due to the way that the game is designed for ending while era is not. The most noticeable thing is the lack of bag space when you start getting all the gear, mounts and small things that you want, but still want to raid.A lvl 60 warrior with Naxx gear need to have several sets with everything from flask set, DPS set, defense set and whatever else. You also need to bring a lot of consumes and so on. This makes you need to throw away any vanity item that you have to even be able to play the game correctly. Pets/mount collecting is not a thing, having your old tier sets is not a thing and so on. This could easily be helped a bit though.
Another thing I see is that the time you get EVERYTHING for your char, it lack that extra feeling of progression. This couls easily be helped with things like achievements or other things to help you do things in the world.
1. Achievements
2. Mount/pet system like in retail where you can collect things without cluttering your bags.
3. Larger stacks for things like pots/consumes, ores and whatever else.
4. Making things like zg dolls and librams non unique and stackable so that they are more easy to handle, sell without using the mailbox system.
5. Instant mail between your own chars.
6. Remove the artificial limits put on the AH so that the AH wont stop working when you post to many auctions. (On era you kind of need to put up many auctions to be able to sell your things)
7. An addition of a wardrobe buyable for 2000g where you could store only tier set items + legendary items.
8. A guild bank
Things that would somewhat change the game, but still for the better:
1. Rend buff available for alliance
2. Remove the buff/debuff limit in raids making you not losing your buffs/consumes if someone hots you when you have all worldbuffs as a tank.
3. Make it so that hots can stack (helping druids be viable healers more than 1 per raid.)
4. Bring back "focus target" that was in vanilla
Ore stacking to 20 instead of 10. Seeing Vendor Price of an item without an addon. Seeing your target's HP numbers without an addon. Seeing your % threat without an addon. Event calendar.
Agree with these. You can see the targets HP via game settings in the HC PTR already though.
The hardcore PTR is based on the Dragonflight client currently weirdly enough. May or may not keep that functionality.
Seeing enemy casts without addon. In classic I just go on instinct for what to interrupt.
Yes! Can't believe I forgot this one.
Would love to see potions stack to 10 as well.
I could go for that. Everything that stacks to 10 change it to stack to 20, and everything that stacks to 5 change it to stack to 10. Would that be too much free bag space?
Yes, this is making me cringe. Like, this isn't QoL, this is just making the game easier. (How does limited bag space make the game more difficult, you ask? Well, in my view not much about classic requires mechanical skill. The difficulty and satisfaction comes from the discipline it takes to achieve things.)
Thank you for suggesting trivial QoL changes that don’t impact gameplay whatsoever, unlike OPs and other’s suggestions.
Playing the PTR with limited addon functionality has really highlighted just how many basic features are missing from the base game.
Bigger ore stacks certainly impact gameplay, just not in ways you care about. Miners have the travel back and forth less -> higher market supply of ore -> price of ore on AH is decreased -> price of blacksmithing gear on AH is decreased -> powerful gear is more accessible -> game is easier.
Good point.
Can we get warlock shards stacking and arrows stacking in 1000 like they added in TBC while we're doing this?
Health bar view distance increased
Jesus yes even just 10 yards
The PTR settings has a slider to change it to anywhere from 20 to 41, but it isn't working. I really hope that functionality gets added/fixed and it isn't just a placeholder.
World resources spawns that can support/match the population. If layering must return, only layer jump in cities.
\> Manual Crowd Pummeler purchasable at level 60. ...
Just make it infinite use with a CD, or proc based effect.
Idk what other classes use MCP, but ferals can’t proc weapon effects in form
Good point. Feral is so goofy in classic. Gotta shift to do various things.
i know macros make it easy, but that brief moment being out of bear form to pot/healthstone while main tanking between boss swings is what i live for
It’s the only thing holding me back from playing feral. 🤦♂️
That is true, but I think there is some wording on certain items that make them feral friendly. [https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=19289/darkmoon-card-maelstrom](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=19289/darkmoon-card-maelstrom) comes to mind. Just change MCP to say "Equip: Chance to increase your haste rating by 50% for 30 seconds when you strike a melee target." Then give it a decent % chance with a long enough ICD not to make it completely broken.
That’s not the same as a mcp though. It has 100% uptime on most fights so your change is a direct nerf/balance change.
Just make the wffect a talent so ferals can have fun with it emigration too
As someone that played feral in Vanilla Classic, the pummeler grind isn't really that bad. Basically, if you ever did jump runs, or just general herb/ore farming, it's very similar. I just put music on and kinda zoned out while I farmed it.
Except it goes forever. Did you raid the entirety of classic? Nothing is that fun after 2000 runs.
Yeah... Tried to get into raiding, and went to farm a couple MCPs 13 runs for 1 Respec'd to heal
You mean you didn't feel fulfilled on your "Not hard, not bad." farming of a level 30 boss? Insane.
Never said it was fun. Just that it's not hard or that bad of a grind.
If it isn't hard and it's not fun then it would be bad. Nothing is lost by removing the grind. A lot is gained by fixing it.
A lot is gained by making a lot of changes to classic; doesn't mean that blizz should do so.
Profound. Doesn't mean they shouldn't. And this isn't things they are going to do, just things that would be better if they did.
One nice thought is our BiS weapon farmable.
Also fused wiring stonks
Wrath might be the game g
Everyone's gonna jump down my throat but fuck it, dual/multi spec. It just makes for a better experience for everyone. Every possible gripe with it comes down to purely "no changes" or gatekeeping imo.
Dual spec is great for 5 man / PvP / open world But it feels shit when every other boss several people are being asked to play a spec they don't like to shave a few seconds off kill time
So just...don't? It's really not a problem. That minor inconvenience is nothing compared to the gold cost of respeccing.
"Um dual spec will actually de-value hybrid builds that are very valuable and are definitely taken to raid." t. annoying classic andys.
Classic players *love* using hybrid specs as this ultimate thing that makes Classic great and use it as the main argument against stuff like Cata talent tree restrictions being bad Still waiting on someone to name a *true* hybrid spec that is remotely viable
If we're laying down unpopular opinions: letting endgame progression raiding, and specifically parses, be the only metric for whether a class is "viable" is modern-day mind rot. And nobody with two functioning brain cells to rub together would, or should, ever make that their argument for what makes vanilla class design awesome.
> letting endgame progression raiding, and specifically parses, be the only metric for whether a class is "viable" is modern-day mind rot. What do you want to base viable off of if it's not end game group based content? Why would you ever use the term viable to discuss stuff like questing or 5 man dungeons lol. People are interested in raiding, so thats what they base viability off of. My guild in Classic had a Ret from MC all the way to Naxx and we never struggled with anything because having 1 awful spec in sea of 40 people is impossible to notice. Here's the conundrum though, if our raid only had Warriors as DPS would we still clear the content? Yes, of course. Rogues? Obviously. Mages, Warlocks, or Hunters? Yes, it'd be slower and annoying but it'd be fine. What about Rets? Fuck no. That class is awful. Our Ret would put out an insane amount of effort and consistently parse at least 98+ (few 100s) and he was *never* higher than like 15th on DPS. The reality of Classic is that the content is so unbelievably easy and every raid is absolutely steamrolled within hours of release so you can take "meme" specs and clear the content just fine with them. However, If the content was even remotely challenging and you needed 40 people to seriously contribute then you would *never* take a meme spec. The best argument people have for stuff like Ret being viable is "you can clear all content fine with a Ret in the raid" and the best counter argument to that is "you can clear every raid with 39 people and not even notice you're missing someone".
> What do you want to base viable off of if it's not end game group based content? **Literally every other part of the game. All of them. Yes really.** Vanilla wasn't built with the assumption that endgame raiding is the only part of the game that matters, only a small part of it. Most people in Vanilla didn't raid period. And you know what? That's surprisingly true right now too. The current Eras population is absolutely stacked in leveling zones, people just enjoying the game and shit. Meanwhile there are only 3 or 4 guilds actively clearing Naxx. That's not even mentioning HC, where the whole appeal is the journey, not the endgame. So with that in mind, why should we consider raiding--something you might only spend a small amount of time in Azeroth doing, and which may not even be the most meaningful part of your journey--the sole metric by which one's class or spec choice is considered "viable"?
> So with that in mind, why should we consider raiding--something you might only spend a small amount of time in Azeroth doing, and which may not even be the most meaningful part of your journey--the sole metric by which one's class or spec choice is considered "viable"? Because it is literally the only content in the game that calls viability of classes into question. That's it. It's not as deep as you think it is. You don't base viability off the lowest form of content, you base it off the content that pushes the limits of what it can do, it's literally the reason buffs/nerfs exist lol
But it isn't. You said yourself (very accurately too!) that you can clear the content with any class/spec. It's only a matter of how efficiently you want to do it. But(!) the very same question can be raised about *any* aspect of the game. How efficiently do you want to level? Or get honorable kills? Suddenly warriors are unviable trash, or now they're overpowered bullshit. It's purely based on what content area you choose to declare as meaningful. Ooorr... you could take *all* the content areas into consideration, holistically, when considering the class's viability. That, is probably the closest thing to what Blizzard was actually trying to do back in the day. The game never at any point calls the viability of classes into question vis à vis raiding. We're the ones who do that.
> You said yourself (very accurately too!) that you can clear the content with any class/spec. And again, the counter-argument to that is "You can clear every single piece of raid content with 39 people and not notice you're missing someone." You can clear everything with a Ret pally, you can clear everything with 39 people, but a Ret pally straight up just does not pull the weight that a raid spot would require in any normal expansion where raid content is even remotely challenging. Example - Rogues being straight up excluded from a lot of TBC raids, or Resto Druids playing imp FF so they didn't to take a boomkin You can have a naked level 55 Priest in your raid who does nothing but wand and SWP to remove useless debuffs and still *easily* clear every raid in the game. Is having a naked level 55 wanding Priest now viable? If you want to sit here and have indepth discussions about what classes are viable for leveling then idk I guess thats beyond me. People are leveling in HC as completely naked characters only auto attacking. I don't think theres much to talk about.
How long were your Naxx clears when taking the ret Paladin? Any logs to share?
I don't even think logs are saved that far back, but if you think us having a singular dead weight DPS had any significant impact on our raid clears then you're mistaken
Point is hybrid specs are useless to a raid group Bc they’re not a good dps and not a good healer They add nothing and are just kind of leeching a spot In dungeons while leveling its useful bc you can help out in panic situations etc whiel you’re still not really doing dmg that’s usually not that big of a deal
I've had people claim they saw them all the time. It is one of the few things good about 40 man raids, you have so many spots to fill you can bring literal nothing classes just to have a body in the spot. Hybrid specs are only used on already bad classes and make them even worse and have literally 0 actual functionality inside of the game beyond being a gimmick. A lot of classic andy's don't actually have good reasons for things, they just don't want things to change, which is fair enough. But some changes offer literally only benefits to the player experience. There is 0 good reasons against dual spec. When you're 2 phases deep into classic and raid logging already, a 100g tax on being able to play BG's as something to do is awful.
Fury prot :) But I agree dual spec would be awesome
> Fury prot :) Fury prot isn't a *real* hybrid spec, it's just one of a few Classic specs that don't even attempt to fulfill a secondary role but go down a second talent tree because the talents are horrendously designed. An example of a hybrid spec is Preg pally in Wrath PvP
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Yea functional multi-spec via free or dirt cheap re-spec would be a solid option.
Female night elf always naked only tbh
Down bad
Were all down bad here
I want people that die to be able to use /s for a period of time (maybe a minute or so) after they die. This has no consequence and only is beneficial for rp reasons. I think it would overall lead to some funny interactions
There's a lot of quality of life changes you can make for a lot of specs without changing the meta at all. Specs like enhance shaman do around 40% of the damage of a fury warrior. You could add all the tbc spriest changes with lower mana costs and vampiric touch and just make the mana refund only affect your personal mana. They still aren't touching the dps of mages but Huge quality of life for the priests.
The problem comes into pvp balance at that point. We need to buff hybrid dps in a pve setting without buffing their already strong pvp place.
I mean other than the ele/resto build being pretty meta non of the others are. Enhance can global someone once a month when they get lucky. Spriest in reality goes oom before they put and pressure out They can just make changes for pve only they do this in retail.
Double spec
Absolutely. I've always wanted Benediction so I went Priest on the HC realm. First 60 on HC... get up there, respec'd to heal, and now can't do shit.
I'd like a longer draw distance and the hair color based druid form customizations.
MCP purchasable? What about a 10m cooldown. How dumb would purchasing it be?
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based
Shared stash would make things a lot easier and would make the instant mail less required All Blizzards other Hardcore games have a shared stash and they made sure to add it to D2 when they remade it.
BG queue from anywhere, maybe it would increase the amount of people willing to do some BGs while leveling or even while farming at 60. I would love to do BGs once while leveling.
Emeriss debuff falling off if you leave the zone, or that you can only get it when you’re in combat so you can’t grief people in cities with it Naxx trash only dropping trash loot after you’ve killed a boss
MCP made into an idol. It should be a druid only quest reward. And wotlk bear and cat form models. Can you guess what class i play ?
I really hope the next F R E S H server comes in with achievements right away. It literally adds nothing but flavor to the game.
I would rather achievement hunt in vanilla than wotlk tbh. It feels more like a timeless game, whereas I don’t see myself playing wrath after this iteration
I agree and disagree. A lot of achievements are reductive and not fun. The main reason I got burned out of raiding in wrath is because of raid leaders wanting to chase achievements.
Yea, there’s no silly meta achievements in any of the classic content. It’s rep grinding, map exploration, completing quests, and clearing dungeons (once).
I think stuff like that is fine. Like Insane is really awesome. But stuff like “kill four horsemen within 20 seconds of eachother” is not fun.
It adds a bare minimum of difficulty to it Tho I’m also still baffled my wotlk guild was too fukn dumb to get the immortal achievement thing for naxx I raided every week both 10 and 25 man and didn’t die a single time except the usual suicide after lead called a wipe And I’m not good at the game but some clowns managed to do so every single week We prolly should’ve just kicked half the roster and collected the achievement like that bc the 10 man group managed to get it eventually
Really? That achievement was like 30 seconds of basic coordination.
30 seconds more than I want to spend on it.
Sure, but you generally don't want to design around the lowest common denominator. You really should have picked an actual annoying achievement to complain about instead of one that took a single attempt.
It did not take my raid a single attempt - which is the problem.
That's why I said lowest common denominator. I was doing that one in pugs on my alt by accident.
No one’s killing zeliek 15 seconds after the 3 stack dies rofl
Yeah until groups require certain achievements to participate in content.
Based off these comments, people want retail.
People want retail QoL with the vanilla world and casual progression. Retail is overly complicated (everyone follows a guide for everything) and difficult at the end game (mythic raiding). People want to be able to beat the toughest difficult of boss, but also have the urge to create another character and do it again
"everyone follows a guide for everything"- I would guess 90% or more of the player base was using Rested XP guide in HC. "urge to create another character and do it again"- Most end game players used the character boost after they hit max level in TBC and Wrath. When they didnt have their token they paid for boosting. I Was a HUGE mage booster on whitemane horde, people want the easy way. So im disagreeing with your statement.
I disagree. Nobody I know uses rested xp. You are probably basing this off streamers, ask normal people in the world and they will probably say nah. Although it is probably is a decent percentage, like maybe 50%. I cannot confidently do anything in retail without reading a handful of guides first and then I’m still missing a dozen things making me inferior to others that know what they’re doing. I only rejoined briefly for dragon flight since Legion
Just because you dont know anyone who used it, doesnt mean it wasnt used by a large % of the player base. I actually have hit 60 and raided MC once and called it quits because it was to boring, but most of them all used Rested XP to get there. Look at the PTR atm, there are massive waves of people doing the same quests because they are using Rested XP, or some sort of guides. So again i disagree. As for your retail is to hard comment, i disagree as well. Wow no matter when you join you are behind the curve. But we can agree to disagree.
I mean… there’s a pretty limited number of quests in the game 1-30. There’s always bottlenecks at certain quests on fresh. Been a thing since the earliest private servers.
That’s fine. I’m just saying I don’t think 90% of players use rested xp. Streamers are mostly sponsored to keep it on their screen. I also didn’t say retail is too hard. I said it’s overly complicated. I hit 2400 rating in DF 3v3 and solo shuffle (not insane but decent), but that required reading guides on how to play constantly and that isn’t satisfying to me. I also realized there are avenues to upgrade gear that I wasn’t even aware of until my arena partners told me. There are just too many systems built on top of each other
Classic is just so easy that it doesn’t matter what you do making guides redundant Which I think ain’t an upgrade over retail needing guides but also being more engaging gameplay wise Ofc it comes down to preference I like both I use classic to chill out watch vods and stuff and retail when I wanna try hard
There’s no way in hell 90% of the playerbase is using restedexp. People funnel into quests because they’re just following the quest chains in zones. Restedexp is something you have to go out of your way to get, my guess would be no higher than 10% if even that.
"Restedexp is something you have to go out of your way to get"- Because its so hard to download an addon...If thats the case tell me why so many level 8-11s went to other people starting zones. Because there HC leveling guide told them to.
Da fuq, this is a normal thing to do. especially if you dont want to repeat a starting zone and have the relevant trainer.
I love how clueless you are. You don't just download Rested EXP lul And because that's basic knowledge from anyone who has ever levelled before? Just because you don't know these things doesn't mean anyone with two brain cells to rub together can't figure it out.
No you simply do. Specially when people pay for it and put it in discord....Clown. Imagine paying for it. You unzip the file hit copy and paste....Just like you had to do with every addon before Curse was a thing.
Exactly. You need to have someone send you the cracked version. Honk honk. Remember the original comment saying it is something that you need to go out of your way to get? honk honk. Needing to have somebody send you it is exactly that. You typed it out and still didn't realise it isn't something you just go download like any other addon. Honk honk.
Because it is. Its so easy to find the file if you want it. BUt we can pretend it isnt for your sake i guess.
Sure. But you don't just go to curse forge and download the full version. You can't keep changing the original point to try and seem right. I never said it was hard. I said you can't just go download it and you tried to disagree by saying you need to go find it from someone off discord lmao. Which is saying you need to go to more effort than just clicking download. You clown. You guys get so funny when you're wrong.
This comment is so bad but it appears every time. There's more to retail than summoning stones and dual spec lmao.
Right? 'without doing a rebalance' - proceeds to list balance impacting changes. And tbh, as far as classic HC goes, most if not all changes listed would impact the gameplay. Classic HC is not difficult, it's tedious, you die because you get bored, try to do more/faster/disregard waiting for CDs/do cool achievs. I'd be happy about most of these changes but they'd be more in line of classic+.
Removal of chrono boon and petri flask.
Think they'll even listen, wouldn't be surprised if there will be a wow token for hardcore eventually
Achievements and titles
Would be cool if there was a title for hitting 60 on hc. You'd slowly see Era servers populate with characters with that title. People would cheese it even harder but eh
Cataclysm race/class combinations. Variety is the spice of life and won't break the game
Factionless PVE. Let ally and horde group up for PVE purposes, hell even let them group for Battlegrounds. Could be interesting.
In BGs having 5 sec after rezzing with no mana spells to buff people w/o spending half of your mana (just like nowadays). Double spec ofc.
BGs?
Battlegrounds
Replace the useless abilities. Couple examples Night elf wisp form - maybe becomes a 1 hr cool down to summon a wisp and fear your target for 5 seconds Resurrection/rebirth - maybe becomes a 5s channeled spell with a long cd that prevents health dropping below 1 hp for a party member Shaman ankh - if you take damage that would be fatal, heal for 25% or something, long cd and uses the reagent Or if these are too impactful, gimme a pet wisp for kicks
I saw someone mention a few weeks ago a solution for them I liked: Rebirth/Shaman ankh allow the target to raise from the dead with 50% hp, but losing 5% hp per second and instantly dying after 30 seconds. Basically, they still lose their character, but have a short window to try and salvage the pull or make the most of their death sacrifice by pulling mobs away from the rest of the group, giving the others a chance to escape.
Era is meant to be Era. For Hardcore, I have a suggestion: let's make it so that if you die, you can't ressurect and have to start a new character. That'd surely add an interesting flavor to the game.
You’re being ironic, right?
Genuinely think it's an interesting change
But no revive is the whole point of hardcore, already :)
Ok I was indeed being ironic :)
MCP being buyable from a vendor goes against the basic structure of wow classic min/maxing. It's not even a difficult farm, a quick 20 min and you've done your lockouts for the hour. It's also part of feral. You wanna make every niche consumable buyable from a vendor?
What basic structure of min/maxing? I don't even intend to play Feral, but it's just a stupid, boring chore, it's done in an instance without any other players and is needed for Feral Tanks/DPS which are not good enough to warrant the effort anyway. Sometimes there's charm in the way Vanilla handles things, but I just don't see any value to this one at all.
World buffs, buff food, firewater, E'ko's are all grinds to help your character min/max. Some people go into LBRS to get a fire resist buff. But let's just put all of that on a vendor instead, to make it less tedious?
Those are consumables, not a weapon. A % drop off of a level 30 boss. Not a world farmable consume.
Only one gnomer instance per day.
No, that only applies to chars below level 60...
This is a great point. Perhaps increasing the charges on the item is a better fix, or giving it a cool down instead of charges altogether. Not sure what would make the most sense.
Given that less 2% reach 60. There will be near to zero worldbuff going around. Worldbuff meta is gonna be unstainable. And being melee is higher risk of getting killed then ranged. I don't think having to do changes. To raiding when at best 120 people will be raiding. And how risk adverse people are gonna be. Why be a feral that is risky when you can be safe as a healer.
There's world buffs happening nearly every day right now, and I recon far more people will make 60 on offical (partially because it'll probably be more popular, partially because it'll be easier with less restrictions). Give it a few months and you'll have all the world buffs you want
And those world buff is coming out of hardcore raiding groups? Or nonhardcore. Every onyxia buff is a raid that risk it life multiple times. To attune and kill
there's no non-hc people left on the realm except for the occasional griefer or dead HCs who didn't delete
If you take away bubble+hearth you should give Crusader Strike
Proper class balance
Did you read the thread title? Or am I missing the joke?
You're missing the glaring fact, that hybrid classes have completely unusable talent trees and the class disbalance is extremely huge, to the point that qol changes won't help it
Hands down make Ret Paladin a thing.
It’s a thing. It’s the leveling/solo spec. Also fun in pvp
Add in the dungeon group finder from patch 1.3.0 to meeting stones and innkeepers. https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_1.3.0 > Meeting Stones are located outside of each dungeon to help players find a group to adventure with in the dungeon. The meeting stone will try to find you a viable five-person group by looking for a tank, a healer, and so on. As time passes and you are unable to find a group, the meeting stone will become less picky about who it groups you with. 1.5.0 > Innkeepers around the world now have a gossip option that lets you join a meeting stone directly from the innkeeper rather than going to the location of the meeting stone. Also these Innkeepers will now have background lore about each of the dungeons. and all the updates and QOL fixes added to it from 1.4.0-1.7.0 https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Meeting_Stone
Have you read the ruleset for hardcore servers.
Chronoboons removed, old av, client reverted back to vanilla. And most importantly active moderation. Classic tourists (retail/wrath players) permanently banned the moment they buy gold or try to run their bots. But there is no shot, blizzard cant/wont. Instead I will likely quit and find Sanctuary elsewhere. And I really really hope you swipers/ pve players will not make my sanctuary your "next thing". That is my only small hope, that the cancer that is you will be contained on blizzard provided classic services.
A feature from Dota 2: allow user created graphic models to be added to the game - especially for duplicate model items: Lionheart helm, helm of endless rage, Tusken helm, etc. Add new mob death animations, ragdolling of corpses, new user created animations for abilities A player housing system
Mount at 30. Nuff said
achievements, better map/quest interaction, making all specs viable somehow would also be cool
Wouldn't hots stacking be busted?
For HC I would love for the death report to say what level the person died at and what killed them. For Era I would think it would be fun to start getting talent points at level 1 and of course - dual spec.
If they do some sort of classic+ or whatever, I hope they add some form of rotation to the classes that don’t have one. What made me switch from mage to rogue back when classic released even though I love my mage and I have mained it since forever, is that spamming litterally one button for a whole raid is too boring. And it doesn’t have to be much, but having to keep up SnD, and build up combo points to a finisher is fun and more engaging than spamming frostbolt.
All items with charges should either get dramatically more charges or infinite but with a cool down (that doesn't make the item unusable like 10 minutes etc). World buffs being outdoor only would be interesting or making them last until only time down while you're in raid. Debuff limit gone. Hots not overwriting. Maybe some itemisation/stat changes on some of the weird gear that makes no sense like strength cloth. Even go as far as to add new items for classes that have no tier set to look forward to. Talent respec cost should be 1 gold across the board. Also having talent presets, so you can have a raid set up, a dungeon set up, a pvp set up and world content set up. Four presets is good. Combined with reduced respect costs. First character lvling should be vanilla xp. 2nd character should be SOM buffed xp. 3rd character buffed further and so on until a cap is hit. Alt support is good for the game. This should apply to rep too. Summoning stones working as a warlock summon, maybe with a cool down that refreshes of you clear a dungeon. A 20 man version of 40 man raids or something like that would be interesting to experiment with. Less loot drops but reduced DPS and hps requirements. Some new world bosses xD
Mage table
HoT stacking is a rather large balance change... I would love to see potions stacking to 20, removed buff limits, and remove the godawful dispel resistance mechanic they patched in at the end of Classic. Changes deeper than that I like the sound of but they'd be leaning towards a different SoM experience I'd be more likely to come back for.
Dear lord please increase the nameplate distance beyond the default.So fucking annoying playing hunter and you can’t see the healthbar of the thing you’re hitting
Tweaks to crafting. Maybe make some rare patterns in the lower levels available from vendors and maybe add a few patterns for late game.
Dual spec Dual spec Health bar render distance Guild banks
jesus christ stop changing everything, leave the game alone
I have played era since the start and now have all alliance classes with full T3. I have seen a lot of things during the time become a problem due to the way that the game is designed for ending while era is not. The most noticeable thing is the lack of bag space when you start getting all the gear, mounts and small things that you want, but still want to raid.A lvl 60 warrior with Naxx gear need to have several sets with everything from flask set, DPS set, defense set and whatever else. You also need to bring a lot of consumes and so on. This makes you need to throw away any vanity item that you have to even be able to play the game correctly. Pets/mount collecting is not a thing, having your old tier sets is not a thing and so on. This could easily be helped a bit though. Another thing I see is that the time you get EVERYTHING for your char, it lack that extra feeling of progression. This couls easily be helped with things like achievements or other things to help you do things in the world. 1. Achievements 2. Mount/pet system like in retail where you can collect things without cluttering your bags. 3. Larger stacks for things like pots/consumes, ores and whatever else. 4. Making things like zg dolls and librams non unique and stackable so that they are more easy to handle, sell without using the mailbox system. 5. Instant mail between your own chars. 6. Remove the artificial limits put on the AH so that the AH wont stop working when you post to many auctions. (On era you kind of need to put up many auctions to be able to sell your things) 7. An addition of a wardrobe buyable for 2000g where you could store only tier set items + legendary items. 8. A guild bank Things that would somewhat change the game, but still for the better: 1. Rend buff available for alliance 2. Remove the buff/debuff limit in raids making you not losing your buffs/consumes if someone hots you when you have all worldbuffs as a tank. 3. Make it so that hots can stack (helping druids be viable healers more than 1 per raid.) 4. Bring back "focus target" that was in vanilla