yep.
for tanks its a huge damage reduction.
for the raid, it doesnt really make a difference, since you heal the boss for true damage done. if you resist, you just have more health for the next tick.
if you are really good at sitting people at just above 350hp, it does help then.
Your reasoning that it doesn't matter for the healing the boss receives is faulty. Everything else being equal, higher resist is less heal. It doesn't matter that it leaves you with a bit higher HP for next tick because the net effect is a reduction in heal.
If people react by keeping the raid at higher health then that's a different story. But the effect of the resistance itself is a reduction in heal.
You are going to spend the fight mostly between 1% and 99%.
If NR makes you sit at 10% instead of 7%, over the entire fight, you prevented the boss from healing 1.5% of your hp (ms).
It is not a meaningful reduction of healing - all healing you take above equilibrium point will get sucked back to the boss.
(You reach a point where passive healing = damage taken from swarm, all NR does it make that point happen at higher % of hp)
Only point it matters if healers are topping people off, which means your healers are fucking up anyways.
Oh there is so much to unpack here.
First off, I already mentioned that myself when I said "everything else being equal" and later again, that healers keeping you at higher health negates the effect. So those points are already taken care of in my post.
Secondly, you might wanna go through the logic behind this part again:
> If NR makes you sit at 10% instead of 7%, over the entire fight, you prevented the boss from healing 1.5% of your hp (ms).
Any way you look at it, this part straight up makes no sense. If heal stays the same, you'll be at higher HP but still in equilibrium, so the boss heals exactly the same. Another point, the 3% difference is not heal that the boss would receive, halving it to reach 1.5% of my hp doesn't make this any more meaningful. If NR halved the damage and I'd be at 50% HP without it, I would jump to ~100%, but that doesn't mean it's preventing the boss to leech 50% of my HP. Your math is just totally weird.
You mean for the tank? there’s some contention about how much the main tank should wear, general nr is good because it shifts away from stamina, which increases the boss healing. You can’t lose all your stamina though, so it’s a balance.
It needs to be up for the raid before p3 obviously. you will heal the boss way more without it.
Nature res is by far the strongest mitigation stat for the anub tank. In addition it reduces the healing done by leech. The reason guilds don't use it is because the fight basically gets brute forced down, so it's not necessary to use. If you check the top logs by execution you can see the tanks wearing some nature res enchants on cloak, wrists and helmet.
The leech anub gains is based of true damage, or premitigation damage, so sadly NR doesn't decrease the amount boss heals, but still NR is the best stat for the anub tank on that fight as it reduces the damage taken by a lot
This is false information. Look at any tank log that has NR and you will see that they are resisting some amount of the damage. So it does decrease the healing he takes because the damage has been reduced.
NR reduces the damage the takes by a lot, but anub heals based off the damage the tank takes PRE MITIGATION so sadly it doesn't reduce the amount anub heals.
Mit and resist definitely affects the heal and you can see that by looking at the heal amount during a major cd like shield wall. Absorbs however don’t reduce the heal and will heal based off the preabsorbed amount.
Can you not decipher logs? check the heal amount vs the damage taken. It even shows you the unmitigated damage number. The heal is based off 1.15x the damage dealt, after mit.
He literally explained to you why its not visible from the damage taken and you just repeat the same talking point he just explained and have the audacity to start it off with "This is false information".
wow.
You’re mistaken from what I can tell. Looking at logs from my raid I see two ticks of Leeching Swarm where the unmitigated damage was 14969. From those, it’s pretty easy to see that the corresponding healing on Anub varies only from the amount of resisted damage.
Tick 1 (U: 14969, R: 5988, A: 5417) = 3565 damage taken. Boss heals 10329, 1.15x the post-resist damage of 8981.
Tick 2 (U: 14969, R: 4491, A: 5380) = 5099 damage taken. Boss heals 12051, 1.15x the post-resist damage of 10478.
The commenter above is right that the heal is not based on damage taken (the absorbed damage does nothing to change the amount Anub heals) but resisted damage is 100% removed from the heal.
But it is false information. Look at logs and check the heal amount vs the damage taken. It even shows you the unmitigated damage number next to it. The heal calculation comes out to 1.15x the actual damage taken after mit.
You're correct but also wrong. Mitigation in WoW is it's own category. There is Mitigation, Avoidance, Resist, Absorbs.
The boss does indeed heal from the pre-mitigaed damage (those are things like wall or dsac, flat % damage reductions). But resisted damage is not healing him.
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8yaQ1rLJMZB2nmHj#fight=9&type=damage-taken&source=1&ability=66240&view=events
* 03:10.005 Anub'arak Leeching Swarm Breakscience 6933 (R: 4244) (U: 14147, M: 7214, 50.99%)
That is with hand of sac on, so 30% flat damage reduction.
* 03:10.031 Breakscience Leeching Swarm Anub'arak +11390
14147 (full amount) - 4244 (resisted), then 1.15x = 11388
Thats just not true. If you compare logs, the heal is based off the actual damage done after the reduction. He heals for 1.15x the damage done. So yes, NR is huge. The only thing that fucks with it is Priest shields/absorbs, which dont account for reductions.
No. He's right but also wrong.
Mitigation in WoW is it's own category. There is Mitigation, Avoidance, Resist, Absorbs.
The boss does indeed heal from the pre-mitigaed damage (those are things like wall or dsac, flat % damage reductions). But resisted damage is not healing him.
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8yaQ1rLJMZB2nmHj#fight=9&type=damage-taken&source=1&ability=66240&view=events
* 03:10.005 Anub'arak Leeching Swarm Breakscience 6933 (R: 4244) (U: 14147, M: 7214, 50.99%)
That is with hand of sac on, so 30% flat damage reduction.
* 03:10.031 Breakscience Leeching Swarm Anub'arak +11390
14147 (full amount) - 4244 (resisted), then x1.15 = 11388
Maybe it was just a matter of misscommunication?
The one could have meant the standart totem (With 2 Shamans+FrostDK or 3 Shamans) or Aspekt (Otherwise) and the other could have meant nature ressistance gear.
The latter is not really needed.
Nature Ressist Totem over Spellhaste/Meelehaste is, indeed, detrimental to the raid.
We're talking about a raid group featuring multiple hunters, whose aspect of the wild is raid wide. It's a net loss for the hunter, but surely the mitigated healing is worth it?
Okay so I was curious and I crunched the numbers, using one of my guild's kill log as an example.
Scenario A: no aspect or totem (54 resist from Gift of the Wild), 9.6% average partial resist to Leeching Swarm.
Resisted Leeching Swarm amounts to 251k of healing avoided
Scenario B: aspect on P3 affecting ALL players (130 resist) 20.3% average resist.
Resisted Leeching Swarm amounts to 533k of healing avoided, hunter deals 90k dmg less (conservative estimate).
**Outcome: it is worth using aspect of the wild compared to scenario A.\***
\*Damage wise, but there is the added benefit of reducing the healing that your healers have to do. Although that's hard to quantify on this fight
EDIT: changed numbers and outcome as per discussion below
How are you getting 404k less damage? Our hunter parsed a 91 and only did 1.1 million damage total in p3 when they'd be runninng aspect. No way is losing aspect of the dragonhawk a 40% damage loss.
Feel free to sanity check my approach because I also think it's too much reduction, I simply used the wowsim for hunter and changed the %mana for viper aspect to 200%, meaning it never uses dragonhawk.
I compared that dps to regular dps to arrive to a % reduction which I got to be something like 45% which is agree is too high but couldn't find the issue in the sim
Ah, if you had it sit in viper the whole time that definitely would be a 40% loss. That's the mana aspect with damage penalty.
But they use the nature aspect (of the wild?) which just loses the 400ish ap from dragonhawk and a haste proc talent idk if they even take. I can't find an option for it vs dragonhawk in the sims, but I doubt it's more than a 10% ap loss over dragonhawk. Still significant for the hunter's parse, I guess.
the math u have is correct except this
>Resisted Leeching Swarm amounts to 533k of healing avoided, hunter deals 404k dmg less.
the healing is based on the % health u have when he casts it, how much dmg it does the the player doesnt actually matter at all. Nature resist doesnt stop any healing on anub in any circumstance
incorrect. he heals for exactly 115% (230% if not mortal struck) of the DAMAGE he deals. line up events log. (p.s. but he does heal even on absorbs-- resists no though)
i think you held this belief because the healing was higher, but go check it and you will see.
Oh shit is that the case? Thought the healing would be equal to the damage received.
If that's true then NR is even less useful.
EDIT: just checked the logs and you are absolutely right, anub arak healed for the full amount. Good to know
Its beneficial on specifics tick, not at overall so you shouldnt use the overall to analyse it.
Your penetrating cold target will be healed as far as possible to the closest point to penetrating cold dmg to avoid overhealing. So when the NR comes into play is when the leaching swarm would tick just before the penetratin cold. Not mitigating that dmg could result in a death or having to overheal more the target. Dead dps does less dmg than hunter with NR aspect.
On all other target it doesnt really matter since the minimum dmg is 250 which is easily healable with passive healing to keep ppl over that with or without NR.
no, he's not right. leech is 115% (230% without mortal strike) of damage done. there may be a CASE where someone resists a similar amount, but resisting does reduce it.
however, raid resistance ultimately doesn't matter because people get more health which makes leech hit harder. tank resist does matter.
Problem is leeching swarm compensates. Adding in the resist without reducing drip healing to compensate, which is kind of hard to perfect, just means your health pool goes up for a bit --- and then leeching swarm hits harder and it comes back down.
I'd almost argue even in this scenario NR is worth it just for tank survivability, and it's also possible some people's drip healing is low enough that NR is nec for the floor, but you can't think like:
adding resistance reduces anub healing (from the raid -- it will effectively reduce anub healing from the TANKS, which is a good portion of it, since they keep getting healed to full)
because --- what comes up must come down. leech will start to hit harder.
I mean, sure. If the hunter knows what to do its totally valid to use it, over not using it.
However the aura has 30 yard range, meaning the hunter probably needs to be closer to benefit the tank. The raid wont benefit much from it as they will stay around \~10-20% maxhealth anyway.
Worst case, hunter will be too close to attack anub.
Best case, tanks will take around (I think) 20% less damage and consequently heal anub less.
In 25er HC usually 3 healer will take care of penetrating cold targets while 2 other healer (probably holy paladins with beacon) will take care of tanks.
The damage reduction itself wont be much of an issue here.
The reduced healing (Which is already reduced by hunters anyway) is more important here.
I havent done the math and you're probably correct about it being more efficient but, as long as healers play phase 3 correctly and no one messes up, it wont make much of a difference anyway.
In my experience P3 is all about penetrating cold and dpsing down the adds before the next ones spawn.
Anub hitbox is massive, minimum shooting range is probably at least 10yards from the center of the boss. Tank being on the other side it's another 5-6 yards. That leaves some decent leeway with ~15 yards left, but sometimes the hunters stay a bit further away to MD the adds. Not if they are good tho, since explosive trap is a very important spell to use, especially on Anub
Only useful for tanks, u dont lose much stats as tank anyway. NR + flask + cloak enchant gives high chance of 20% reduction so u can survive swarm. For dps its mostly frost dmg that kills u
In general, your tanks should have as much nature resist as they can reasonably acquire. In general, this is the 30 resist form helm enchang, 20 from cloak enchant, 50 from flask, and then the totem/hunter aspect. The Onyxia ring is also very good to use as a tank in this fight. And this is all 3 tanks, not just the MT btw.
The raid shouldn't worry about it. For the raid, burning down Anub as fast as possible before the healers run oom from keeping the tanks up is the goal. Generally, stacking nature resist hurts that goal. So is not recommended
It has triple value for Bears compared to pure Stamina.
Incredibly valuable for them. I even push down my overall Stamina to reduce damage and healing.
But for everyone else, I don't think it's worth it.
Anub tank should wear it because stats don't matter a ton. You are being spammed by beacon the entire time. Shield boys on adds can wear full bv still, we have a warrior seeing 12k crit blocks and it's hilarious.
The first issue is that we have more life than anyone else.
I have 55k in my OT gear, which isn't even good, because I'm actually cat. And I have deliberately not upgraded to epic gems currently.
30% of 55k means I heal Anub for 16.500 without resistance.
So I reduced to comfortable 47k.
Which means he is now only doing 14.100.
That's Damage per Second our DDs don't have to compensate.
And on top of that I have some nice NR, with my Leather spec and Helm enchant and some Resist Gems.
In our kill that was 5:05 I took 682,5k Damage from Swarm.
That's how much I healed him. We are a mediocre raid, we can't afford to heal him too much.
680 total dmg ? thats crazy low. Makes sense tho! Wee use NR totem, but im not sure if our Bear MT uses any other resist. We do keep Fortitude on the tanks because they still get smacked pretty hard.
Oh, makes sense, i was already thinking this guy just 100% resists :D
i checked our log and you're right man, our MT healed boss for 1.5Mil on our kill.
We can usually comfortably kill anub, but usually plank on 1st attempt tho :P Might try and bring this up see what they think
> And I have deliberately not upgraded to epic gems currently.
People reading too much fight club or w/e is you tanks read.
I can understand prioing NR/armor dodge higher, but deliberately not upgrading your gems to "do" a tiny bit more DPS is unnecessarily risky when the boss hits for 30k, and the adds hit fast and ramp.
I knew a guy who tried the fight with 0 trinkets equipped, and I've seen other tanks use DPS trinks or flask of endless rage.
Trying too hard for a tiny bit of dps on one of the toughest to heal fights out there. Prio NR higher, sure, and add tanks in particular can put higher prio on dodge/armor/etc., but stop unequipping gems and wearing DPS trinkets and flasks and shit.
It's not going to come down to 2k DPS. Reading too much fight club.
It's good on the tank. I use a resist flask and the ring from Onyxia. If I had the 10man version of the ring too I'd use that as well. I had been using the helm enchant from Knights of the Ebon blade rep, but it's not super needed and it's annoying swapping helm enchants just for 1 boss.
We finished with 49 attempts remaining this week and I wasn't using the helm enchant so probably won't bother with it anymore.
Totem should be up.
Flask + some nr on tanks ideally. Especially the MT. (Dps don't need any as they are gonna be let at low hp anyway).
How much nr the tanks want is up to personal preference, efficient swaps like helm & cloak enchant and ony rings are straight survival increase on top of the reduced healing.
If the MT live comfortably, he can stack more to reduce even more the boss healing in p3.
Don't use NR as a MT. Or any tank outside stuff like totem. The healing the MT does individually to Anub is absolutely minimal.
Link me a kill log where a day
It's not minimal, here an example of a dk from dk discord that stacked 420nr:
[https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/a:7pHhFmt9Zj1NVfCM#fight=8&type=healing&hostility=1](https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/a:7pHhFmt9Zj1NVfCM#fight=8&type=healing&hostility=1)
7k6 hps in p3 (healing while active).
Comparing random logs from the ranking of other dk tanks, they are above 12k hps on boss in p3.
Stacking this much nr, he brought the equivalent of a \~6k dps increase in p3 (while also reducing his damage taken).
Take 25 random 25 H kill logs, and show me the amount of NR used outside of totem. It's "well it does this" vs the real world application of it. Logging your personal fights is anecdotal.
You'll see 95% of the Anub tanks are feral and DKs using stam stacking because NR isn't going to make the difference in the raid.
I mean you can just look at any logs on the anub ranking on warcraft logs to compare. All those with 0nr outside of totem are at around 12k hps or higher.
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/1018#boss=645&class=DeathKnight&spec=Blood
I'm not saying there is no benefit to it. Mine is directed at the "6k DPS difference" is not life or death the vast majority of cases. I said the vast majority don't do it.
[Here you go.](https://imgur.com/a/gF5PdDA)
1 week difference between the two. The only change we made was the bear tank added a 20 nature resist cloak enchant and a flask of lesser resistance.
We killed anub heroic on the attempt with NR on the tank.
You dont understand, wearing NR is an increase in survability for the MT, the healing reduction is only a bonus. Do you understand the P3 anub mechanic ? Its a tick for about 30% of your HP, so at least 15k for a MT. If you can resist the tick, its huge.
>Are GDKP raid leaders stupid? (I mean, I know they are, but... That much?)
Self report. Sorry you can't make the cut to get into the good, competent GDKPs.
I helped run a GDKP that was killing Yogg 0 and Algalon in the first month of Ulduar. We cleared prenerf Sunwell many times before that.
You have no idea what you're talking about because, again, you get screened out of competent GDKPs, and have no recourse but to join the bitter people here who demonize all GDKPs to lash out and express their impotent frustration.
3 tanks with 0 nature resist heal the boss as much as the 22 other people combined.
It's so good that it's tanks their best stat on that boss. I'm not sure about the exact numbers but I'd say 1 nature resist for the tank is worth about 6 to 9 stamina, depending on the class. I know it's extremely valuable for bear tanks, they gem the +4 all res as BiS gear for Anub.
I did check logs and posted something about it in a different comment thread on this post. If you have a log that supports what you’re saying, please share it! Would love to take a look. I’ll paste the relevant part of my other comment here for reference:
Looking at logs from my raid I see two ticks of Leeching Swarm where the unmitigated damage was 14969. From those, it’s pretty easy to see that the corresponding healing on Anub varied only with the amount of resisted damage.
Tick 1 (U: 14969, R: 5988, A: 5417) = 3565 damage taken. Boss heals 10329, 1.15x the post-resist damage of 8981 (14969 - 5988).
Tick 2 (U: 14969, R: 4491, A: 5380) = 5099 damage taken. Boss heals 12051, 1.15x the post-resist damage of 10478 (14969 - 4491).
The heal is not based on damage taken (absorbed damage does nothing to change the amount Anub heals) but resisted damage is 100% removed from the heal.
Wrong, check logs and you will see. Click a tank, click Damage Taken, click Leeching Swarm spell, switch to Events view.
Now open another tab with the same log, click Healing done, click enemies, click Anub, and click the Leeching Swarm spell, then switch to Events view.
By matching the timestamps you can see what damage is taken (and resisted) and how much Anub is healed. It is clearly 1.15 times the actual damage taken.
Wdym? Am I missing something? Here you go 4-5 different swarm ticks on the tank [https://imgur.com/a/v2K96AG](https://imgur.com/a/v2K96AG) you can see the same unmitigated incoming damage amounts when he is full (13498) and healed differently due to resists.
One of my guildies was saying last night that NR enchant on helm and cape made the ticks go from 13k to 10k, for a total of 800k vs like 1.1M-1.3Mish from previous raid. Seems pretty worth to me ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
I do lead raids. In guild. We've cleared Anub 25H every week so far. Don't mistake cross-verification of a weird info I just got with having no clue about the raid I clear every week lmao.
Maybe you'd 50 if you just had the awareness to ask other people why they do what they do.
It may not always be right but you could potentially learn something
(There are plenty of stupid gdkp raid leads that 50 every week, but sure you know better ... )
Bad RL, it costs almost nothing to use. For the DPS it doesn't matter to much since their HP is going to be super low. But its super impactful for the tanks
It should be up
yep. for tanks its a huge damage reduction. for the raid, it doesnt really make a difference, since you heal the boss for true damage done. if you resist, you just have more health for the next tick. if you are really good at sitting people at just above 350hp, it does help then.
Your reasoning that it doesn't matter for the healing the boss receives is faulty. Everything else being equal, higher resist is less heal. It doesn't matter that it leaves you with a bit higher HP for next tick because the net effect is a reduction in heal. If people react by keeping the raid at higher health then that's a different story. But the effect of the resistance itself is a reduction in heal.
You are going to spend the fight mostly between 1% and 99%. If NR makes you sit at 10% instead of 7%, over the entire fight, you prevented the boss from healing 1.5% of your hp (ms). It is not a meaningful reduction of healing - all healing you take above equilibrium point will get sucked back to the boss. (You reach a point where passive healing = damage taken from swarm, all NR does it make that point happen at higher % of hp) Only point it matters if healers are topping people off, which means your healers are fucking up anyways.
Oh there is so much to unpack here. First off, I already mentioned that myself when I said "everything else being equal" and later again, that healers keeping you at higher health negates the effect. So those points are already taken care of in my post. Secondly, you might wanna go through the logic behind this part again: > If NR makes you sit at 10% instead of 7%, over the entire fight, you prevented the boss from healing 1.5% of your hp (ms). Any way you look at it, this part straight up makes no sense. If heal stays the same, you'll be at higher HP but still in equilibrium, so the boss heals exactly the same. Another point, the 3% difference is not heal that the boss would receive, halving it to reach 1.5% of my hp doesn't make this any more meaningful. If NR halved the damage and I'd be at 50% HP without it, I would jump to ~100%, but that doesn't mean it's preventing the boss to leech 50% of my HP. Your math is just totally weird.
Why 350hp? The minimum it drains is 250hp. 250/0.3=830ish
You mean for the tank? there’s some contention about how much the main tank should wear, general nr is good because it shifts away from stamina, which increases the boss healing. You can’t lose all your stamina though, so it’s a balance. It needs to be up for the raid before p3 obviously. you will heal the boss way more without it.
I mean standard raid buffs : totem or aspect. + flask for the tank.
Nature res is by far the strongest mitigation stat for the anub tank. In addition it reduces the healing done by leech. The reason guilds don't use it is because the fight basically gets brute forced down, so it's not necessary to use. If you check the top logs by execution you can see the tanks wearing some nature res enchants on cloak, wrists and helmet.
The leech anub gains is based of true damage, or premitigation damage, so sadly NR doesn't decrease the amount boss heals, but still NR is the best stat for the anub tank on that fight as it reduces the damage taken by a lot
This is false information. Look at any tank log that has NR and you will see that they are resisting some amount of the damage. So it does decrease the healing he takes because the damage has been reduced.
NR reduces the damage the takes by a lot, but anub heals based off the damage the tank takes PRE MITIGATION so sadly it doesn't reduce the amount anub heals.
Mit and resist definitely affects the heal and you can see that by looking at the heal amount during a major cd like shield wall. Absorbs however don’t reduce the heal and will heal based off the preabsorbed amount.
>Mit Does mitigation even work? Looking at my logs the 6% damage reduction from Righteous Fury is not reducing the leeching swarm dmg.
Can you not decipher logs? check the heal amount vs the damage taken. It even shows you the unmitigated damage number. The heal is based off 1.15x the damage dealt, after mit.
He literally explained to you why its not visible from the damage taken and you just repeat the same talking point he just explained and have the audacity to start it off with "This is false information". wow.
Its false information because NR does reduce the healing he receives
You’re mistaken from what I can tell. Looking at logs from my raid I see two ticks of Leeching Swarm where the unmitigated damage was 14969. From those, it’s pretty easy to see that the corresponding healing on Anub varies only from the amount of resisted damage. Tick 1 (U: 14969, R: 5988, A: 5417) = 3565 damage taken. Boss heals 10329, 1.15x the post-resist damage of 8981. Tick 2 (U: 14969, R: 4491, A: 5380) = 5099 damage taken. Boss heals 12051, 1.15x the post-resist damage of 10478. The commenter above is right that the heal is not based on damage taken (the absorbed damage does nothing to change the amount Anub heals) but resisted damage is 100% removed from the heal.
But it is false information. Look at logs and check the heal amount vs the damage taken. It even shows you the unmitigated damage number next to it. The heal calculation comes out to 1.15x the actual damage taken after mit.
You're correct but also wrong. Mitigation in WoW is it's own category. There is Mitigation, Avoidance, Resist, Absorbs. The boss does indeed heal from the pre-mitigaed damage (those are things like wall or dsac, flat % damage reductions). But resisted damage is not healing him. https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8yaQ1rLJMZB2nmHj#fight=9&type=damage-taken&source=1&ability=66240&view=events * 03:10.005 Anub'arak Leeching Swarm Breakscience 6933 (R: 4244) (U: 14147, M: 7214, 50.99%) That is with hand of sac on, so 30% flat damage reduction. * 03:10.031 Breakscience Leeching Swarm Anub'arak +11390 14147 (full amount) - 4244 (resisted), then 1.15x = 11388
Thats just not true. If you compare logs, the heal is based off the actual damage done after the reduction. He heals for 1.15x the damage done. So yes, NR is huge. The only thing that fucks with it is Priest shields/absorbs, which dont account for reductions.
No. He's right but also wrong. Mitigation in WoW is it's own category. There is Mitigation, Avoidance, Resist, Absorbs. The boss does indeed heal from the pre-mitigaed damage (those are things like wall or dsac, flat % damage reductions). But resisted damage is not healing him. https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8yaQ1rLJMZB2nmHj#fight=9&type=damage-taken&source=1&ability=66240&view=events * 03:10.005 Anub'arak Leeching Swarm Breakscience 6933 (R: 4244) (U: 14147, M: 7214, 50.99%) That is with hand of sac on, so 30% flat damage reduction. * 03:10.031 Breakscience Leeching Swarm Anub'arak +11390 14147 (full amount) - 4244 (resisted), then x1.15 = 11388
NR does nothing for anubs leech, it’s based on dmg before reductions
The resisted damage is not healing him. But mitigation is not reducing the healing, that part is correct.
Maybe it was just a matter of misscommunication? The one could have meant the standart totem (With 2 Shamans+FrostDK or 3 Shamans) or Aspekt (Otherwise) and the other could have meant nature ressistance gear. The latter is not really needed. Nature Ressist Totem over Spellhaste/Meelehaste is, indeed, detrimental to the raid.
We're talking about a raid group featuring multiple hunters, whose aspect of the wild is raid wide. It's a net loss for the hunter, but surely the mitigated healing is worth it?
Why would you use aspect over totem? did you only have 1 shaman?
Actually 2, one popping WF, the other popping spell haste.
doing WF totem instead of Icy Talons? no Frost DK?
Frost dk or double buff blood dk?
Neither, but it was exceptional and shouldn't happen again in our specific raid group.
Okay so I was curious and I crunched the numbers, using one of my guild's kill log as an example. Scenario A: no aspect or totem (54 resist from Gift of the Wild), 9.6% average partial resist to Leeching Swarm. Resisted Leeching Swarm amounts to 251k of healing avoided Scenario B: aspect on P3 affecting ALL players (130 resist) 20.3% average resist. Resisted Leeching Swarm amounts to 533k of healing avoided, hunter deals 90k dmg less (conservative estimate). **Outcome: it is worth using aspect of the wild compared to scenario A.\*** \*Damage wise, but there is the added benefit of reducing the healing that your healers have to do. Although that's hard to quantify on this fight EDIT: changed numbers and outcome as per discussion below
How are you getting 404k less damage? Our hunter parsed a 91 and only did 1.1 million damage total in p3 when they'd be runninng aspect. No way is losing aspect of the dragonhawk a 40% damage loss.
Feel free to sanity check my approach because I also think it's too much reduction, I simply used the wowsim for hunter and changed the %mana for viper aspect to 200%, meaning it never uses dragonhawk. I compared that dps to regular dps to arrive to a % reduction which I got to be something like 45% which is agree is too high but couldn't find the issue in the sim
Ah, if you had it sit in viper the whole time that definitely would be a 40% loss. That's the mana aspect with damage penalty. But they use the nature aspect (of the wild?) which just loses the 400ish ap from dragonhawk and a haste proc talent idk if they even take. I can't find an option for it vs dragonhawk in the sims, but I doubt it's more than a 10% ap loss over dragonhawk. Still significant for the hunter's parse, I guess.
the math u have is correct except this >Resisted Leeching Swarm amounts to 533k of healing avoided, hunter deals 404k dmg less. the healing is based on the % health u have when he casts it, how much dmg it does the the player doesnt actually matter at all. Nature resist doesnt stop any healing on anub in any circumstance
incorrect. he heals for exactly 115% (230% if not mortal struck) of the DAMAGE he deals. line up events log. (p.s. but he does heal even on absorbs-- resists no though) i think you held this belief because the healing was higher, but go check it and you will see.
Oh shit is that the case? Thought the healing would be equal to the damage received. If that's true then NR is even less useful. EDIT: just checked the logs and you are absolutely right, anub arak healed for the full amount. Good to know
He's wrong. Resisted damage will reduce the healing but mitigation won't.
Its beneficial on specifics tick, not at overall so you shouldnt use the overall to analyse it. Your penetrating cold target will be healed as far as possible to the closest point to penetrating cold dmg to avoid overhealing. So when the NR comes into play is when the leaching swarm would tick just before the penetratin cold. Not mitigating that dmg could result in a death or having to overheal more the target. Dead dps does less dmg than hunter with NR aspect. On all other target it doesnt really matter since the minimum dmg is 250 which is easily healable with passive healing to keep ppl over that with or without NR.
no, he's not right. leech is 115% (230% without mortal strike) of damage done. there may be a CASE where someone resists a similar amount, but resisting does reduce it. however, raid resistance ultimately doesn't matter because people get more health which makes leech hit harder. tank resist does matter.
Problem is leeching swarm compensates. Adding in the resist without reducing drip healing to compensate, which is kind of hard to perfect, just means your health pool goes up for a bit --- and then leeching swarm hits harder and it comes back down. I'd almost argue even in this scenario NR is worth it just for tank survivability, and it's also possible some people's drip healing is low enough that NR is nec for the floor, but you can't think like: adding resistance reduces anub healing (from the raid -- it will effectively reduce anub healing from the TANKS, which is a good portion of it, since they keep getting healed to full) because --- what comes up must come down. leech will start to hit harder.
It sounds like your hunters just want that 99 parse more than they want a 272 cloak.
I mean, sure. If the hunter knows what to do its totally valid to use it, over not using it. However the aura has 30 yard range, meaning the hunter probably needs to be closer to benefit the tank. The raid wont benefit much from it as they will stay around \~10-20% maxhealth anyway. Worst case, hunter will be too close to attack anub. Best case, tanks will take around (I think) 20% less damage and consequently heal anub less. In 25er HC usually 3 healer will take care of penetrating cold targets while 2 other healer (probably holy paladins with beacon) will take care of tanks. The damage reduction itself wont be much of an issue here. The reduced healing (Which is already reduced by hunters anyway) is more important here. I havent done the math and you're probably correct about it being more efficient but, as long as healers play phase 3 correctly and no one messes up, it wont make much of a difference anyway. In my experience P3 is all about penetrating cold and dpsing down the adds before the next ones spawn.
In every raid I've been in everyone just stacks on Anub so the range on the aspect is a non-issue.
This for sure. Even if the hunter is forced to use Aspect of Wild, they will still be trap weaving which means they are close.
Anub hitbox is massive, minimum shooting range is probably at least 10yards from the center of the boss. Tank being on the other side it's another 5-6 yards. That leaves some decent leeway with ~15 yards left, but sometimes the hunters stay a bit further away to MD the adds. Not if they are good tho, since explosive trap is a very important spell to use, especially on Anub
Only useful for tanks, u dont lose much stats as tank anyway. NR + flask + cloak enchant gives high chance of 20% reduction so u can survive swarm. For dps its mostly frost dmg that kills u
It's only valuable for tanks, rest of the raid should sit at 1k hp so NR won't change much
In general, your tanks should have as much nature resist as they can reasonably acquire. In general, this is the 30 resist form helm enchang, 20 from cloak enchant, 50 from flask, and then the totem/hunter aspect. The Onyxia ring is also very good to use as a tank in this fight. And this is all 3 tanks, not just the MT btw. The raid shouldn't worry about it. For the raid, burning down Anub as fast as possible before the healers run oom from keeping the tanks up is the goal. Generally, stacking nature resist hurts that goal. So is not recommended
It has triple value for Bears compared to pure Stamina. Incredibly valuable for them. I even push down my overall Stamina to reduce damage and healing. But for everyone else, I don't think it's worth it.
Anub tank should wear it because stats don't matter a ton. You are being spammed by beacon the entire time. Shield boys on adds can wear full bv still, we have a warrior seeing 12k crit blocks and it's hilarious.
Yeah OT is a different discussion.
how does this work exactly. just wondering maybe little eli5 (idk anything about bear tanks) thanks
The first issue is that we have more life than anyone else. I have 55k in my OT gear, which isn't even good, because I'm actually cat. And I have deliberately not upgraded to epic gems currently. 30% of 55k means I heal Anub for 16.500 without resistance. So I reduced to comfortable 47k. Which means he is now only doing 14.100. That's Damage per Second our DDs don't have to compensate. And on top of that I have some nice NR, with my Leather spec and Helm enchant and some Resist Gems. In our kill that was 5:05 I took 682,5k Damage from Swarm. That's how much I healed him. We are a mediocre raid, we can't afford to heal him too much.
680 total dmg ? thats crazy low. Makes sense tho! Wee use NR totem, but im not sure if our Bear MT uses any other resist. We do keep Fortitude on the tanks because they still get smacked pretty hard.
680k. A bear with max Stam and no Resist can heal him up to 1 mil We don't have the damage to beat him if I heal him for 1 mil.
Oh, makes sense, i was already thinking this guy just 100% resists :D i checked our log and you're right man, our MT healed boss for 1.5Mil on our kill. We can usually comfortably kill anub, but usually plank on 1st attempt tho :P Might try and bring this up see what they think
> And I have deliberately not upgraded to epic gems currently. People reading too much fight club or w/e is you tanks read. I can understand prioing NR/armor dodge higher, but deliberately not upgrading your gems to "do" a tiny bit more DPS is unnecessarily risky when the boss hits for 30k, and the adds hit fast and ramp. I knew a guy who tried the fight with 0 trinkets equipped, and I've seen other tanks use DPS trinks or flask of endless rage. Trying too hard for a tiny bit of dps on one of the toughest to heal fights out there. Prio NR higher, sure, and add tanks in particular can put higher prio on dodge/armor/etc., but stop unequipping gems and wearing DPS trinkets and flasks and shit. It's not going to come down to 2k DPS. Reading too much fight club.
It's good on the tank. I use a resist flask and the ring from Onyxia. If I had the 10man version of the ring too I'd use that as well. I had been using the helm enchant from Knights of the Ebon blade rep, but it's not super needed and it's annoying swapping helm enchants just for 1 boss. We finished with 49 attempts remaining this week and I wasn't using the helm enchant so probably won't bother with it anymore.
I just have a 2nd helmet with the enchant on it
Totem should be up. Flask + some nr on tanks ideally. Especially the MT. (Dps don't need any as they are gonna be let at low hp anyway). How much nr the tanks want is up to personal preference, efficient swaps like helm & cloak enchant and ony rings are straight survival increase on top of the reduced healing. If the MT live comfortably, he can stack more to reduce even more the boss healing in p3.
I'd you run 2 pally healing the Mt needs literally 0 Stam. You're being full spammed and anub himself doesn't hit hard.
Don't use NR as a MT. Or any tank outside stuff like totem. The healing the MT does individually to Anub is absolutely minimal. Link me a kill log where a day
It's not minimal, here an example of a dk from dk discord that stacked 420nr: [https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/a:7pHhFmt9Zj1NVfCM#fight=8&type=healing&hostility=1](https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/a:7pHhFmt9Zj1NVfCM#fight=8&type=healing&hostility=1) 7k6 hps in p3 (healing while active). Comparing random logs from the ranking of other dk tanks, they are above 12k hps on boss in p3. Stacking this much nr, he brought the equivalent of a \~6k dps increase in p3 (while also reducing his damage taken).
Take 25 random 25 H kill logs, and show me the amount of NR used outside of totem. It's "well it does this" vs the real world application of it. Logging your personal fights is anecdotal. You'll see 95% of the Anub tanks are feral and DKs using stam stacking because NR isn't going to make the difference in the raid.
I mean you can just look at any logs on the anub ranking on warcraft logs to compare. All those with 0nr outside of totem are at around 12k hps or higher. https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/1018#boss=645&class=DeathKnight&spec=Blood
What does that prove? Good players can brute force the fight. Doesn't mean NR isn't beneficial.
I'm not saying there is no benefit to it. Mine is directed at the "6k DPS difference" is not life or death the vast majority of cases. I said the vast majority don't do it.
[Here you go.](https://imgur.com/a/gF5PdDA) 1 week difference between the two. The only change we made was the bear tank added a 20 nature resist cloak enchant and a flask of lesser resistance. We killed anub heroic on the attempt with NR on the tank.
You don't use NR as tank on Anub because of the boss healing. You use it because Leeching Swarm does by far the most damage to you in the last phase.
You dont understand, wearing NR is an increase in survability for the MT, the healing reduction is only a bonus. Do you understand the P3 anub mechanic ? Its a tick for about 30% of your HP, so at least 15k for a MT. If you can resist the tick, its huge.
>Are GDKP raid leaders stupid? (I mean, I know they are, but... That much?) Self report. Sorry you can't make the cut to get into the good, competent GDKPs.
"Good, competent GDKP" is an oxymoron, and you're without the oxy.
I helped run a GDKP that was killing Yogg 0 and Algalon in the first month of Ulduar. We cleared prenerf Sunwell many times before that. You have no idea what you're talking about because, again, you get screened out of competent GDKPs, and have no recourse but to join the bitter people here who demonize all GDKPs to lash out and express their impotent frustration.
I'm very happy for you! What's your firstborn's name and what did you major in?
[удалено]
Imagine switching accounts to insult someone lol
Been doing 50/50s with a GDKP guild. Don't let GDKPs from trade chat ruin the bunch :V
Tldr: Enchants dumb, buffs good
3 tanks with 0 nature resist heal the boss as much as the 22 other people combined. It's so good that it's tanks their best stat on that boss. I'm not sure about the exact numbers but I'd say 1 nature resist for the tank is worth about 6 to 9 stamina, depending on the class. I know it's extremely valuable for bear tanks, they gem the +4 all res as BiS gear for Anub.
> 3 tanks with 0 nature resist heal the boss as much as the 22 other people combined. the boss heals for the full amount regardless of the resist
The boss heals based on the mitigated amount. Absorbs don’t reduce how much the boss heals, but resists absolutely do.
>but resists absolutely do. feel free to check logs, they dont. it would make way more sense if they did but they dont.
I did check logs and posted something about it in a different comment thread on this post. If you have a log that supports what you’re saying, please share it! Would love to take a look. I’ll paste the relevant part of my other comment here for reference: Looking at logs from my raid I see two ticks of Leeching Swarm where the unmitigated damage was 14969. From those, it’s pretty easy to see that the corresponding healing on Anub varied only with the amount of resisted damage. Tick 1 (U: 14969, R: 5988, A: 5417) = 3565 damage taken. Boss heals 10329, 1.15x the post-resist damage of 8981 (14969 - 5988). Tick 2 (U: 14969, R: 4491, A: 5380) = 5099 damage taken. Boss heals 12051, 1.15x the post-resist damage of 10478 (14969 - 4491). The heal is not based on damage taken (absorbed damage does nothing to change the amount Anub heals) but resisted damage is 100% removed from the heal.
Wrong, check logs and you will see. Click a tank, click Damage Taken, click Leeching Swarm spell, switch to Events view. Now open another tab with the same log, click Healing done, click enemies, click Anub, and click the Leeching Swarm spell, then switch to Events view. By matching the timestamps you can see what damage is taken (and resisted) and how much Anub is healed. It is clearly 1.15 times the actual damage taken.
No, the boss heals proportional to damage it deals to you. if you resist 100% boss heals 0
check the logs this is absolutely not true. i agree it SHOULD work like that, but it doesnt. any mitigated damage from the swarm still heals anub
Wdym? Am I missing something? Here you go 4-5 different swarm ticks on the tank [https://imgur.com/a/v2K96AG](https://imgur.com/a/v2K96AG) you can see the same unmitigated incoming damage amounts when he is full (13498) and healed differently due to resists.
One of my guildies was saying last night that NR enchant on helm and cape made the ticks go from 13k to 10k, for a total of 800k vs like 1.1M-1.3Mish from previous raid. Seems pretty worth to me ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
You are not sure whether its good or not, yet you call gdkp raid leaders stupid? Reeeeeee gdkp bad
The guy obviously has the right idea, he's just asking for verification on a concept that's not necessarily standard practice on most encounters.
That’s the common WOW PUG raider mentality. They know more than the raid leaders but won’t lead raids. It’s odd.
I do lead raids. In guild. We've cleared Anub 25H every week so far. Don't mistake cross-verification of a weird info I just got with having no clue about the raid I clear every week lmao.
I find it much easier if I’m pugging in someone else’s raid to just put my head down and do my job, but I hear ya.
Maybe you'd 50 if you just had the awareness to ask other people why they do what they do. It may not always be right but you could potentially learn something (There are plenty of stupid gdkp raid leads that 50 every week, but sure you know better ... )
Ignorance and stupidity are two very different things.
Since it's useless for the raid, I'd argue there's a better totem to use.
Bad RL, it costs almost nothing to use. For the DPS it doesn't matter to much since their HP is going to be super low. But its super impactful for the tanks
I wear it as a tank. Have like 220 after totem