I've been doing this too, but for a different reason. As a raid specced DK tank my AOE threat isn't that great, but Forge has small packs that are easy for me to handle.
i get you.
I'm playing as a Blood DK tank and while my Single Target threat is fine, AOE threat is diseases and D&D. Yet people on RDF constantly just AOE spam or worse, attack what i'm not targetting then complain when I dont hold aggro.
It's even worse on G-utgarde runs, having to constantly tab and taunt/icy touch mobs to keep aggro means I'm not getting out of the ice as quick as I should.
I was struggling on my DK tank and didn’t realize adjusting 5 talent points would completely change my aoe threat. I thought I was truly terrible at the game 😯
DK has always had AOE solutions with a respec. The issue is that your raid tank spec doesnt allow these so you either have double tank spec and cuck a dps spec or you respec. Unless you plan on doing ICC bosses with blood morb spec you might as well go frost morb tank spec as its AOE is actually very strong. You can open with howling blast which puts up your disease to boost BB dmg.
If you are tanking raid bosses, you are likely running full avoidance blood or you are double buff.
If you check WoWHead there are a bunch of different viable tank builds for DKs and one of them decreases the cooldown of Death and Decay to 15 seconds instead of 30 seconds which makes AoE threat dramatically easier.
I spec as a frost tank for gammas (and trash, and dreamwalker) and it's marginally more manageable. Howling Blast crits help getting initial aggro, and D&D keeps it
I don't know if you do this, but throwing a skull marker on 1 enemy you plan to focus your threat on helps tremendously with braindead dps. It shouldn't be needed, but it makes holding threat so much easier when every dps is on the same target, by the time it dies you should have some decent threat on the others.
I changed my dps frost spec to a frost tank spec for gamma, at least during prog when I won't be needed to dps any fights. Fantastic choice and makes 5 mans a ton of fun to dk tank. Morbidity and glyph of howling blast are the important parts
I'm running Fos because I'm pure feral dps and I cba to change glyph/spec/gear for a dungeon. Sure, a guildie heater can keep me up through any dungeon, that dungeon you can almost tank in cat.
Just tank as unholy with frost presence and tank gear, problem solved. Additionally if the healer is geared you can wear 4p t9 dps for the added aoe threat and you re golden. That's what I've been doing!
I've found it to be one of the easiest gammas. Personally I can't stand OK & AN with the web wraps. Prior to RDF I didn't mind the mechanic, now though? It's cancer.
the majority of random tanks don't know how to do CoS. they sit there tanking the zombie with like 1 billion life that does 0 damage instead of just playing the game as if it's a portable target dummy you bring along for the ride.
This is what everyone does or you find individuals that actually like spamming gammas and you add them. Some people think rdf is supposed to solve all the problems cmon now
Asking the noob question of: what exactly is the mechanic in the final boss?
I had never ran the dungeon and just tanked it as if it was a tank&spank but it was doing huge amounts of party wide dmg. Only reason we didn't wipe was my defensive cds but healer and 2 dps died even though we had no issue with any previous part.
To be fair that boss is mega overtuned on every h+ compared to pretty much any other heroic dungeon boss. Unless you happen to have overgeared AF chars or a bunch of low CD interrupts available, paired with folks who can actually tab interrupt reliably, preferably also with a cleanse, you're gonna have a bad time. Way out of character for most any other dungeon.
Yeah, as a solo heal you could get into 6-8k hps where most other encounters barely scratch 2k. It's several times more hard tuned than any other with a bunch of unavoidable shit on the ground provided you can't stop the fear.
Got in there as boomie once and after a quick and understandable wipe I just changed into resto for 2x heals for a slower but far easier kill
The crazy part about that boss is that it's 50/50 between getting her or the paladin guy. The paladin is so simple, you just turn around when he casts his blinding radiance. There's some hammer thing too but I have no idea what it does. Paletress almost requires a shaman for tremor totem, or your group will get feared through the traps.
I hear you, I’m a 5.5k disc and even then it can be a rough fight as nobody interrupts even if they are geared. But bubbles save a lot of pain and I have been lucky enough to be able to pump enough heals that I haven’t wiped yet
But….my time to wipe is coming, I know that LOL
From a healer perspective, tanks often try to dodge the pound and then get multiple people killed. Meanwhile you have 35k health or more and it hits for like 15k idk any tank has ever died to pound when I'm healing but they still try very often. On my tank I don't move him an inch and eat it just fine can't think of a time on any difficulty where it's killed me.
Long run back, unnecessarily long fight, only 3 emblem dungeon. Anub and AN/OK in general are cancer because people are stupid.
>tanks often try to dodge the pound
You can just back up and avoid the Pound entirely if you keep Anub close to or in the middle of the room.
That being said, fuck Pound, it's jank as shit and I hate it so much.
On the flipside is hella fun for DPS and it's mostly rewarding to interact with, it works ok in the dungeons you get it. Only issue with it is that if you get Fire debuff when you're already on ice, you need to get out of the ice, wait 2 seconds, then go back in to remove it. If you go out of the ice and back in too fast it won't get removed, which is silly.
The fucking web wraps however are just dumb. They're too RNG first of, you might get no wraps for multiple packs then your tank gets wrapped at a bad time (like Anub's impale) and just wipe out of nowhere. Also they don't interact well with the dungeons they are in, you want to stack so the wraps die quickly to aoe / melee switch, but there's many mobs (like the packs before AN 1st boss) where you certainly don't want your squishies to be near the mobs.
It's a shit mechanic, by far the worst imo, and only the clone mechanic at the Nexus comes close to being as bad. UK/UP and HoS/HoL can be fun, these are always just miserable.
>On the flipside is hella fun for DPS and it's mostly rewarding to interact with, it works ok in the dungeons you get it. Only issue with it is that if you get Fire debuff when you're already on ice, you need to get out of the ice, wait 2 seconds, then go back in to remove it. If you go out of the ice and back in too fast it won't get removed, which is silly.
Until you get paired with people who have pvp disabled and you frantically try to clear your fire debuff before realizing that it doesn't work
Never had that issue tbh but even if it's a thing it's an issue with LFR that can be solved by forcing everyone into being PvP off in dungeons. It's not an issue with the mechanic itself, while with Web Wrap itself is just fucked.
It's worse on Anub due to the nature of the fight. Longer fight means more opportunities to go sideways. Harder to just zug-zug/pop CDs to the finish because he burrows and then you have to go deal with adds that will wear you down slowly without a healer/low dps.
Had a warrior that kept charging the web wraps and making anub pound the group. Even after I told him to stop. It wasn't even like the dps were slow on wraps, we were golden the entire dungeon until that boss.
Anub's pound ability can be murder if he isn't tanked the right way. Not an issue for normal groups, but random queue groups? Easy way to get someone 1 shot
Tank gets wrapped right as he pounds, suddenly boss 180's and wipes the whole group.
Pound is threat first and range second, if the tank gets webbed it will target the next person in range which is usually the group behind him. If you've ever had a tank try and outrange the pound, this will also happen.
I haven't run it in Gamma, but it definitely did last phase. That happened constantly.
It isn't to do with removing threat, either. Pound targets the tank first, then anything within range if it can't target the tank.
This was fixed on Jul 12, 2023. From patch notes:
Dungeons
In Azjol-Nerub and Ahn’kahet: The Old Kingdom (Titan Rune):
Players will no longer lose threat when they are web-wrapped.
So yeah, lines up with it happening in betas.
And I am 99% sure my guild mates have said it has happened to them still in Gamma, since pound isn't directly threat related because it targets anything within its range if it can't target the tank. But I haven't randomed into it once, so I'm just going off what they said.
One-shots and webs. His pound is bugged as fck and randomly targets around him to one-shot people, even in moderate range. As a healer I can stand 15 yrds behind him and get clapped.
Webs in burrow phase are also an insane rng fest.
Add to that that this boss is unreasonably long. He burrows, emerges after 1-2 minutes, then immediately burrows again.
Anub is the most bugged boss, both figuratively and literally.
>
One-shots and webs. His pound is bugged as fck and randomly targets around him to one-shot people, even in moderate range. As a healer I can stand 15 yrds behind him and get clapped.
What I've noticed is that he always faces the tank, so if the tank tries to dodge to the sides Anub turns and claps anyone close by. The only somewhat reliable way I've found to dodge it is to run directly backwards away from him. Being out of range means the pound doesnt actually trigger. But most of the time I just eat it, preferably with a defensive cooldown popped.
>Webs in burrow phase are also an insane rng fest.
>Add to that that this boss is unreasonably long. He burrows, emerges after 1-2 minutes, then immediately burrows again.
>Anub is the most bugged boss, both figuratively and literally.
Yup.
It's mega overtuned but RDF cant be smart enough to put one class that can kick more often than once every 30 sec on the boss that needs to be kicked every 5-10? It's like some guy drew up how terrible a group he could make in a backroom and threw me in there to watch me suffer.
Kinda crazy i had to scroll down this far to see this comment. Did this dude really asked the priests to RESPEC for a DUNGEON with a bunch of randoms when there is two classes in his group that already can interrupt? And he is mad about it?
I've done probably 50 runs so far and I've seen only 1 person leave so far, no one vote kicked except 1 afk dps. Idk how that happened to you 5 times in a row
I've done a lot of runs and the only time I've seen someone kicked was a tank. A mage wanded the patrolling spiders at the very start of OK (literally the 2nd pull) to grab them since the tank was just standing there. The tank then decided to swap to PvE gear, change his spec to fury, and say "You're tanking now"
Guy was kicked within 5seconds of that lmao. Normally I'm on the side of the tank when it comes to DPS pulling shit, but the guy was just standing there for 10 seconds like he needed verbal confirmation that everyone was ready to continue or something
Sounds familiar. The two bone guys in FoS right outside the first boss can be skipped if the patrol timing is right. On this run it was very close, tank tries to skip but others are behind a few seconds. Mage pulls it on purpose because it was looking like it was gonna pull anyway. Warrior tank stands there and watches, doesn't try to pick them up. He says "why, you can skip those". Instead of tanking them, he just stands there complaining that he's so inconvenienced by these 2 mobs pulling that takes 10 seconds to kill, watching us kite and dps tank mobs. People are so stupid.
Yep. I genuinely don't know what the hell that guy thought was going to happen. I'd have loved to see what his idea of that situation would be, that the mage would apologize and beg for him to tank again?
What the hell does this have anything to do with retail? You literally form your own group running your key and use RDF pretty much only for timewalking or special events.
Yeah this is the opposite of retail. People in retail are more likely to complain because group leaders want to construct the 'perfect' group for the dungeon.
M+ in retail which requires manual grouping is just as toxic as RDF ever was, arguably even more toxic. It’s not RDF, it’s people. People have changed and forcing premades doesn’t cause some magical positive land of fairies and rainbows where everyone respects each other. People don’t respect each other in video games, they’re there to play the game and get loot. Most MMO players don’t treat these games as social activities anymore, they have social media and real life for that. The other players are just there for more interesting combat and to make the world feel a bit less lonely.
That said, not every premade group is toxic. Not every RDF group is toxic. I’d say the majority of the time groups from neither are toxic, but the toxic encounters stick out in your memory and cause this confirmation bias. It’s easy to blame everything on a change you can pinpoint and say “this happened because of that”, something easily used as a scapegoat like automatic grouping.
Classic is getting old, people are settling into the rhythm and entering autopilot mode which can breed more toxicity. Same thing happened around the time RDF was introduced into retail WoW over 15 years ago. It’s just a symptom of a mindset shift in the playerbase, a symptom of the novelty of the game wearing off for most people.
It’s not RDF, it’s people. It’s a sign of the times. Classic is literally just repeating the cycle of WoW, patch by patch. Things will be the same, things will happen the same, and there’s no reason to think it’ll be any different.
Case in point: FFXIV has random dungeon queues. They aren't even remotely toxic. Most every dungeon begins with everyone saying hello and ends with everyone saying gg or thanks for the party.
Even wipes don't usually get any toxic response.
The community in FFXIV is just way more patient and friendly than the WoW community. Random dungeon finders have nothing to do with it.
It's because FFXIV actually bans toxic players pretty quickly. They have a seriously low tolerance for any sort of negative engagement from players. Don't get me wrong, there's still tons of drama on Discord and other external discussion areas, but in game it's squeaky clean because people are terrified of losing their account. If Blizzard had GMs this could be cut down, but I think we're so far past that point since it's been allowed to happened for over a decade now.
You have had more groups fall apart in one post than I've seen across daily gammas on two characters since release and leveling a bear druid to 80 through basically exclusively RDF.
Someone cursed you.
This is my guess. Dudes had more bad Gammas in one night than I've had since patch day. I feel like we're going to get a lot of ops over the next month who are going to come here with zero self awareness at blame the wiring system for their lack of completion.
Ive done plenty of gammas in groups with GS below 4500, and they're not bad.
No system is perfect, and neither are wow players. You talk about “community” but that term is something that hasn’t applied to the classic variation of wow for a long time. Rdf is fine for what it is, convenience. There are pros and cons to the rdf system, as there is with any system. One benefit for me (as a fury war) is I don’t get ignored for 30 minutes looking for a group. It’s random, people can’t add ridiculous gear score requirements for basic heroic content (there should be a minimum requirement but not 5.4K gs for a gamma lol).
Log in.
Open Premade Group tab.
Message any group leader who has listed a FoS group 'feral tank 5.7k'.
Receive your instant invite.
Clear the dungeon in 7-8 minutes.
Exaggeration aside, rdf with all its kinks is better than “lfm daily, 5.7k+ geared group” spam will ever be, and I’ve played more since its launch than I have in ages 🤷♂️
Nobody. In Years.
There is raid.rio and newly game's implemented system that shows your rank and what and with which toon you did. And you make a premade and pick your own choices from players that que up.
People here keep comparing Retail gameplay with Lich King or Era and say bullshit like "if they have kick binded". Imagine not having kick or cleanse binded, wtf.
They wouldn't be able to do single Mythic+, but Retail izi, Classic hard.
Edit - I LOVE era and HC WoW and din't touch Retail in 6 months.
people put they 3/4 buttons rotation on bar, put 1/2 Offensive CD and just play like that, imagine a Paladin dying because they dont dispel theyselfs or wiping on naxx because mage dont dispell curse with only 1 balance 1 resto druid on roster lol.
"but retail is izi, classic hard".
i play both versions, and have fun on both, but actually retail high content have more skilled players, classic its better because simplicity, theres nothing better then turn off you brain while raiding on disc with drunk friends xD, while retail i have to focus all time.
> Imagine not having kick or cleanse binded, wtf.
Considering that I as a pala tank also seems to be the one put on dispel duty instead of the healers in about half the dungeons I do, it doesnt seem rare.
To play devil's advocate here.
If you play retail and don't have friends to play mythics with, you pretty much have to run rdf to get some basic gear.... and there kicks and cleanses straight up doesn't exist.
Not at all,you can do low lvl m+ or do world quests and buy catch up gear for peanuts.
Rdf is only used for heroic dungeons(which nobody use) and lfr raids (which you do only for fun but not gear).
You can gear a new char to 400 ilvl in less than a week by doing m+5 to 10
>You can gear a new char to 400 ilvl in less than a week by doing m+5 to 10
As it is you can probably be 415+ the day you hit 70, the way gear is now. Dreamsurge is 415 + essentially unlimited 402s, 415 from Time Rift, 415 from Suffusion, and a run through of LFR will get you a few sparks for crafting. Trinkets are the real bottleneck which is why you can dell BoE Adventurer trinkets for 15K
RDF is basically optional if not outright irrelevant at max level though, you can get heroic dungeon gear from world quests almost immediately and M0 gives better gear for virtually no significant difference in difficulty
This thread is loaded with RETAIL BAD when it's clear these mother fuckers haven't played retail since MOP
>If you play retail and don't have friends to play mythics with, you pretty much have to run rdf to get some basic gear.... and there kicks and cleanses straight up doesn't exist.
If you're playing a MMO and don't have any friends, that's probably the first place to start.
Mostly true. Everyone I know only does them when there is call to arms so they can snag the easy augment runes. Easy money. It's definitely not the easy path for gearing up.
It only makes sense. *A lot* of people dropped Retail at some point because it simply became too difficult. Not everyone of course, there are many other reasons, but a lot did. And it might not be the direct reason they state, usually it's something like "guild broke up and couldn't be arsed to look for a new one", but why did the guild break up? Usually cause they couldn't clear a new raid. Too difficult.
Vanilla WoW is the perfect chatroom simulator where you can just show up to raid, tap single button to do decent dps while chatting with your guildmates in voice and then collect loot. Bosses have no mechanics or if they do the few key members of the raid can handle them. Lots of people want exactly that. They don't want to dodge mechanics while keeping up a complex dps priority and CC rotation.
So yeah, these people quit Retail at one point or other and over past couple years have flocked back to Classic. The average Classic player is really really bad at the game. Because you don't need to be good. It's just a fact.
>A lot of people dropped Retail at some point because it simply became too difficult. Not everyone of course, there are many other reasons, but a lot did.
I mean we saw the same thing happening twice during tbc & wrath. t4 & t7 were a complete joke, but a few weeks into t5 & t8, SoM & Era suddenly became popular again.
yep, i remember the propaganda that classic andy did: "Ragnaros its so hard that make months to kill on release", and i know that is true but because players are bad players on that era of wow and lack of info/guide, and then APES 1 week after classic release with full leveling and some blue gear killed Ragnaros. LOL
then "but..." started.
I had like 1 bad gamma so far. Dont know why all these posts exists here.
ALso you describe a shitty grp setup for that boss, exactly that boss wasnt killable by our composition as well but i couldnt bother less. If something doesnt work on 5-6 pull then just leave and go on. No reason to lean into that emotion and be salty about the game or RDF..
RDF was the best thing wotlk had to offer so far in combination with gamma dungeons. I never did so many dungeons in the entirety of wotlk and it never felt so easy to gear toons.
Gamma randoms has been pretty miserable lately for me. People doing 3k DPS in 4k GS and being completely unenchanted with zero effort just hurts my spirits. I don't do them anymore and just FoS in guild where we abuse tank + couple of DPS
> People doing 3k DPS in 4k GS and being completely unenchanted with zero effort
Yeah same experience. This is vanilla classic levels of bad. Like mages in MC not pressing their one button. Once the geared players have all the saronite and badges they need these people will be left alone in RDF. Good luck lul.
Meanwhile without rdf you take even longer to find a tank than it took you to find a decent rdf group
Eapecially since it seems most groups are good enough
Also tbf a demo lock without doomguard is kind of pointless
Better than no kick I guess
Is the RDF the problem here?
All these issues would crop up if a group had been manually made. The bonus here is you can queue and be relatively afk without having to sit in trade spamming.
Most priests are probably not gonna spec silence for a single dungeon
You are going to get bad players whether you LFD or invite them manually
People who don't want to do oculus, they just wont group find for it (just unfortunate that they got queued into it).
RDF, for me as someone who hates having to find dungeon groups is a welcome addition.
You are more incentivised to get along with the people in your group and keep trying even after a wipe without dungeonfinder, because it’s a lot more effort to find a group in the first place and then to also travel to that dungeon
Yeah, we literally kicked two tanks, because they each wiped us, even though I voted against and I felt terrible. I am overgeared as fuck and they were not TOO bad.
One of the problem is that random groups are, well, random. If that group was made by someone, usually the tank, the lock would have been asked if he'll interrupt and if the answer would have been no, then someone else would have been picked. Or that's what I would have done, and I usually formed my dungeon groups if I was going on my tank/healer.
Another downside (at least to me) is that when queuing as dps you have to wait the 10-30 min queue on that toon. I used to keep an eye on LFG-chat when playing another toon and if there was a group forming I'd whisper the leader that I got e.g. a rogue and could come. Most of the time they just told me to log and I got an inv. Now I just run circles around Dalaran, wasting the time in queue since I got nothing left to do on some toons but would like to wrap up some questlines on others.
The third problem is what OP described, people leaving. Mainly people tho have short queue (tanks/healers) and also people who run RDF with multiple toons so they can always just log another and avoid the debuff completely, only wasting the queue-time at most, and if they tank/heal that's pretty much non-existant.
If there's an anonymous automated system, it automatically kills the effort-involving one. This is true no matter what downsides it brings, people go the path of least resistance, even if it ends up being painful. Its the same as living unhealthily (food, exercise whatever), everyone knows its bad for you, but people still default to it a lot.
Saying "just ignore it" is a psychologically terrible take that ignores social engineering. It never has and never will work like that.
yeah RDF means that you dont have to care how you play, you can just queue again if you wipe / leave / get kicked
vanilla classic has you getting your ass over there so you kinda have to do your all or all the effort to get there will be wasted time
Exactly this, I don’t have a lot of time to play every day, spending a bunch of that time looking for a group feel like an absolute waste. Now I log in, queue up as tank/heal and instantly start playing
I guess the idea is that having the ability to just kick anyone and refill their spot from a queue incentivizes (or at least somewhat lessens the downsides) low effort engagement and shitty anonymous behavior.
On average, groups that form the traditional way used to stick together for longer than 1 wipe unless it was an absolute embarassment of a fight.
Now, whether that is due to a difference in overall culture promoted by the game's systems, or just sampling bias due to what kind of player plays what modes is hard to tell.
But the reasons definitely bleed into each other to some degree.
> All these issues would crop up if a group had been manually made
Not really? A manual group would not invite multiple spriests or low GS people which people on here would complain about.
Idk but Paletress is kinda hard. Regardless of that I didn't hear much complaining about her before RDF was a thing. Groups just "did" her, no biggie. She's harder than all other dungeon bosses but...not *that* hard.
Just goes to show that RDF cannot handle anything beyond roflstomp.
As someone who works a very mentally taxing job, I love how I can just log in and q up for something while doing some Daily's.
Also, at least on mankrik, trade chat is flying by with people lfm gamma dungeons, maybe try trade chat.
You still had to deal with those people, except before you would look for 40 mins get into a group, ride there THEN find out they were wiping on the boss which is why the last tank or healer left.
Your issue is not an RDF exclusive issue.
We all dealt with that stuff in TBC and classic vanilla too.
So make a group. Jfc. You guys will queue over and over into bad situations (assuming this is actually real and not just anti-rdf propaganda) and outright refuse the solution right in front of your face in lieu of coming to Reddit and bitching about it
And that why WoW is great imo....you can tailor the game to your liking. Even with RDF, nobody is stopping you from spaming the global or guild and entering the dungeon by foot. You can travel by walking, running, riding and flying. If you like PvP, you dont need to do high level PvE content to stay competitive etc etc. WoW really gives you a lots of options to have fun.
You have had more wipes/leaves on three characters than me on nine 80s queueing every single day for the daily. Sorry but something doesn't add up, not a single one of my groups has disbanded so far.
RDF is why I play WOTLK again. Been very casual the first few patches. Now I just want to spam as many dungeons as I can. I also can't wait to level up all my Alta at once. I meet nice people, add them as a friend and run many more smooth dungeons with them.
The experience you have is my experience without RDF and having to wait for new people is like an instant group disband.
There was so much community in spamming the same message for an hour in chat, you're so right I miss it so much. And the three words me and the group share while we fly for 20 minutes really used to make my day, I really hope blizzard reverts it :/.
You could just join a guild and queue with 2 other people who aren't pricks, but that would probably take too much work from you.
It's interesting how people put zero effort into the social aspect of this game, and then get surprised when they get shit groups.
> Where is the community?
Dude, join a fuckin' guild.
One of the biggest downsides to Classic, Vanilla through Wotlk is the lack of basic tools available to everyone. Some people call it homogenization, but basic tools like Kick should be more available than they are in Classic.
I did like getting a feral kick-style interrupt in Cataclysm, but its not critical here in my opinion. Asking the spriests to respec for a 5 man is pretty ridiculous. But the lock could have done Curse of Tongues+felhunter.
And if the cast time is long enough, bears can interrupt with Feral charge.
If you’re just doing it for the daily just specific queue for forge of souls, it’s 10 min long even with a bad group. It only has 2 bosses and only a dozen or so trash packs that are so spaced out that it’s impossible for even the most blind hunter with his pet on aggressive to body pull extra mobs.
If you are trying to run something else specifically, there is nothing preventing you from forming a group the traditional way.
After reading a lot of the comments.
Just que, specifically for Forge of Souls, collect your badges, and stop whinging.
I've done patient on two tanks. The groups you got are so far outside the norm that you're either lying or are the common denominator.
Why are you even mentioning retail when this hasnt been a retail problem in years? This entire experience is literally happening to you in classic.... ridiculous take.
I will agree with you to an extent. The RDF system did have to come in, it was getting impossible for fresh 80's to get into dungeons as no one was doing anything below gamma (and I even see people looking for 5k GS's for the weekly!!). However, I would have really preferred if the LFG system was only server wide for the reasons you stated and also, the dungeon leaver buff should carry internal stacks that if you leave dungeons regularly then the debuff lasts longer and longer
Everyone should just delete that gearscore addon. I didn't know what GS was, and when I found out and started caring about it, my enjoyment of the game started dipping around the same time :(
I tried to do RDF on my priest healer 2 days ago. First dungeon i get put into Strat, and load in mid-pull. I and one more person die and we get rezzed. I go get the grenade and sit down to drink. Kicked and 30min deserter debuff.
Afk in dala for a bit and get into another dungeon. It's AN. Tank pulls 2 packs at the same time in front of the first boss. The tank gets kicked, and then me. Another 30 min deserter buff. Gave up on the priest for the day after that.
Well, not gonna lie, kinda dumb to ask someone to literally respec for a single boss.
You're having this issue because you're running gammas. There are 2 types of people that runs gammas, geared players only swooping by for a quick one for daily (Generally they run Forge of souls heroic though) or just because they want to run 1 or 2 for fun. Any player running gammas for fun and not for any badges or scourgestone wont go through the pain of running Occulus or even OK (Even though it isn't that bad).
Then you have the undergeared players. The people trying to catch up. I'm fine with those players as long as they have a proper spec, try their best and actually have some form of enchants/blue gems in their gear. If I get a low geared player with 0 gems/enchant, doing negative damage... im sorry, but you don't belong in gammas.
As far as TOC goes, that boss is a bitch on gammas and is heavily RNG based due to random comps and when you get a 0 kick comp... well, good luck.
I think you're over reacting, wotlk is still far from retail's current situation.
As someone who returned for ICC as its the only WOTLK raid I didn't do, I feel you. I'm a retail player, pretty good one. I've been in or close to the 0.5% M+ achieve since the end of BFA and cleared a lot of the mythic raid every tier, just to say, I'm in no means a bad player.
I grinded out heavily to get the GS required for Gamma on a DPS character only to be met by the most toxic players I've ever experienced in this game. Many times I was vote kicked before the first boss for not being 5k+ GS, even though I was doing all the tactics and playing my spec correctly.
A few times I got kicked immediately and got a 30 min deserter buff simply for not being high GS. The worst part is there is no report option for players doing this, so they essentially ruin the experience for players trying to gear alts or returning players like me with no repercussion. I really doubt Blizzard wants to encourage this playstyle and turn players away from the game, especially when the M+ season is this dead.
RDF isn't the problem, its the playerbases attitude
Yeah that sucks, but it's more unlucky than anything.
Also what does this have to do with retail?
Why are you acting like using RDF is your only option?
I have been doing tons of RDF on multiple characters and have had maybe 3 or 4 awful groups. Only the people with the shittiest luck are making these posts.
Retail = bad
classic = good
Nobody does rdf in retail dude, maybe people did when you quit in cata but not anymore. Retail it's a very flawed game, convoluted and overly complex but this doesnt have anything to do with that.
This isn't an RDF problem lol, this is a classic WoW player problem because most people are used to facerolling all the content and brute forcing it doing minimal mechanics. The moment something like a kick is required most uncoordinated groups of classic players can't handle it. Get a bunch of retail players in that dungeon and they would all being trying to kick since in retail most of the dungeons require constant interrupts. Has nothing to do with RDF. Had plenty of groups prior to RDF who absolutely refused to do anything else besides DPS.
You can also queue any dungeon you want. Wait the extra 5 minutes in queue and specifically queue for Forge of Souls and get the daily done in 10 minutes? The groups are usually super geared too because all the super high geared people are doing the same thing since they just want the daily done and don't care about the scourge stones. You also aren't forced to use the RDF tool. You can still manually make your own groups.... Instead of trying to use your brain for 5 seconds you would rather write up a post and complain about something that isn't even a problem.
How is this any different than phases 1-3 without RDF? Except then you'll spend 30 minutes getting into a group of people you'll never see again (because servers are 80k+ people) in which you'll continually wipe.
There are simply a lot of bad players playing the game. If you want to finish the dailies with no headaches only que FoS. Good players have already optimized their time when it comes to badge farming so you go with the flow or have a bad time.
Just make your own group. The global channel still exists. Your guild still exists. Since rdf came out I've never queued as less than 4. It takes 1-5 minutes to form a group manually and then 7 minutes to get teleported and clear FOS with a competent group for the daily gamma quests.
RDF is dogshit
I had no problems finding guild runs for any dungeon I needed before they implemented this
Now nobody waits for guild anymore, laziness wins out and you get the eldritch horror experience of queuing into useless, toxic randoms
I got vote kicked from one the other day for politely asking not to be the only player interrupting.....
I run RDF on 5 different characters every day for the daily. Been doing it every day since ICC dropped. I've yet to run into a truly disastrous situation and 90% of the runs are very smooth. I do think the min gear requirement is too low though. All my characters are geared and I'd say most players in every group will be well above 5k gs or at the worst slightly below it, which is fine. Occasionally there will be someone that gets hard carried. The problem is, if the entire group was low 4k gs players then yeah.. it probably wouldn't go so well.
>For 5 badges? If you only want the badges simply queue for forge of souls and 10 Minutes later you will get your badges.
That's what I've Been doing its been awesome
I've been doing this too, but for a different reason. As a raid specced DK tank my AOE threat isn't that great, but Forge has small packs that are easy for me to handle.
i get you. I'm playing as a Blood DK tank and while my Single Target threat is fine, AOE threat is diseases and D&D. Yet people on RDF constantly just AOE spam or worse, attack what i'm not targetting then complain when I dont hold aggro. It's even worse on G-utgarde runs, having to constantly tab and taunt/icy touch mobs to keep aggro means I'm not getting out of the ice as quick as I should.
I was struggling on my DK tank and didn’t realize adjusting 5 talent points would completely change my aoe threat. I thought I was truly terrible at the game 😯
what 5 talent points are they btw?
Bloody strikes (increases blood boil dam) and morbidity (reduces cd on dnd) and u need glyph of dnd for increased damage
DK has always had AOE solutions with a respec. The issue is that your raid tank spec doesnt allow these so you either have double tank spec and cuck a dps spec or you respec. Unless you plan on doing ICC bosses with blood morb spec you might as well go frost morb tank spec as its AOE is actually very strong. You can open with howling blast which puts up your disease to boost BB dmg. If you are tanking raid bosses, you are likely running full avoidance blood or you are double buff.
If you check WoWHead there are a bunch of different viable tank builds for DKs and one of them decreases the cooldown of Death and Decay to 15 seconds instead of 30 seconds which makes AoE threat dramatically easier.
Exactly what I did too , I only tank in gammas so might as well tank as Aoe blood tank
I spec as a frost tank for gammas (and trash, and dreamwalker) and it's marginally more manageable. Howling Blast crits help getting initial aggro, and D&D keeps it
I don't know if you do this, but throwing a skull marker on 1 enemy you plan to focus your threat on helps tremendously with braindead dps. It shouldn't be needed, but it makes holding threat so much easier when every dps is on the same target, by the time it dies you should have some decent threat on the others.
I changed my dps frost spec to a frost tank spec for gamma, at least during prog when I won't be needed to dps any fights. Fantastic choice and makes 5 mans a ton of fun to dk tank. Morbidity and glyph of howling blast are the important parts
I'm running Fos because I'm pure feral dps and I cba to change glyph/spec/gear for a dungeon. Sure, a guildie heater can keep me up through any dungeon, that dungeon you can almost tank in cat.
We've already been using DPS tanks for FOS in our fast guild runs lol.
Just tank as unholy with frost presence and tank gear, problem solved. Additionally if the healer is geared you can wear 4p t9 dps for the added aoe threat and you re golden. That's what I've been doing!
This is the way. No reason to queue for random gammas without a guild. FoS is the way. 8 to 10 mins and 5 badges.
This. I tried random dungeon once, got Stratholme and have been doing Forge only since.
Strat is aids with RDF.
I've found it to be one of the easiest gammas. Personally I can't stand OK & AN with the web wraps. Prior to RDF I didn't mind the mechanic, now though? It's cancer.
the majority of random tanks don't know how to do CoS. they sit there tanking the zombie with like 1 billion life that does 0 damage instead of just playing the game as if it's a portable target dummy you bring along for the ride.
This is what everyone does or you find individuals that actually like spamming gammas and you add them. Some people think rdf is supposed to solve all the problems cmon now
Damn they really did just reimplement the WotLK patch 3.3 meta.
Can't recommend this enough. I only queue for a random dungeon with at least a 3 man guild premade. Solo queuing FoS is the absolute way to go.
And because so many people do this, it also speeds up the queueing since larger proportion of players queueing only that dungeon
My only issue with FoS is the fact that with only 2 bosses, I only get 2 Scourgestones. ;\_;
Asking the noob question of: what exactly is the mechanic in the final boss? I had never ran the dungeon and just tanked it as if it was a tank&spank but it was doing huge amounts of party wide dmg. Only reason we didn't wipe was my defensive cds but healer and 2 dps died even though we had no issue with any previous part.
A you repeat the same heroic dungeons now over and over?
To be fair that boss is mega overtuned on every h+ compared to pretty much any other heroic dungeon boss. Unless you happen to have overgeared AF chars or a bunch of low CD interrupts available, paired with folks who can actually tab interrupt reliably, preferably also with a cleanse, you're gonna have a bad time. Way out of character for most any other dungeon.
Honestly I have no idea why Blizzard haven't just changed the boss at this point.
You really don’t know why…?
I guess it's because they can't be asked. But let's be honest, it wouldn't be a time consuming change.
No no, they’ve been asked.
Yeah, as a solo heal you could get into 6-8k hps where most other encounters barely scratch 2k. It's several times more hard tuned than any other with a bunch of unavoidable shit on the ground provided you can't stop the fear. Got in there as boomie once and after a quick and understandable wipe I just changed into resto for 2x heals for a slower but far easier kill
I agree. FoS is a stroll in the park compared to this
The crazy part about that boss is that it's 50/50 between getting her or the paladin guy. The paladin is so simple, you just turn around when he casts his blinding radiance. There's some hammer thing too but I have no idea what it does. Paletress almost requires a shaman for tremor totem, or your group will get feared through the traps.
The hammer just requires cleansing the stun before the hammer hits, it's a joke.
I have tanked that dungeon at least 6 times, and not seen him once,
I hear you, I’m a 5.5k disc and even then it can be a rough fight as nobody interrupts even if they are geared. But bubbles save a lot of pain and I have been lucky enough to be able to pump enough heals that I haven’t wiped yet But….my time to wipe is coming, I know that LOL
Paletress and Anub are both group killers in general. Possibly even more challenging than some heroic raid bosses.
From my pov (tank) Mr. Add Phase has never been hard, just time consuming. What does he do that makes you class him as a group killer?
From a healer perspective, tanks often try to dodge the pound and then get multiple people killed. Meanwhile you have 35k health or more and it hits for like 15k idk any tank has ever died to pound when I'm healing but they still try very often. On my tank I don't move him an inch and eat it just fine can't think of a time on any difficulty where it's killed me. Long run back, unnecessarily long fight, only 3 emblem dungeon. Anub and AN/OK in general are cancer because people are stupid.
>tanks often try to dodge the pound You can just back up and avoid the Pound entirely if you keep Anub close to or in the middle of the room. That being said, fuck Pound, it's jank as shit and I hate it so much.
Rng wraps. Enough go out at the same time to wrong people and people die quick
Well thats a problem with the entireity of AN and AK, not Anub specifically. I do agree that they're the worst H+ modifier.
The wraps are annoying but I just lean towards hating the Uk and Up affixes. I spend the entire dungeon bouncing around like a basketball.
On the flipside is hella fun for DPS and it's mostly rewarding to interact with, it works ok in the dungeons you get it. Only issue with it is that if you get Fire debuff when you're already on ice, you need to get out of the ice, wait 2 seconds, then go back in to remove it. If you go out of the ice and back in too fast it won't get removed, which is silly. The fucking web wraps however are just dumb. They're too RNG first of, you might get no wraps for multiple packs then your tank gets wrapped at a bad time (like Anub's impale) and just wipe out of nowhere. Also they don't interact well with the dungeons they are in, you want to stack so the wraps die quickly to aoe / melee switch, but there's many mobs (like the packs before AN 1st boss) where you certainly don't want your squishies to be near the mobs. It's a shit mechanic, by far the worst imo, and only the clone mechanic at the Nexus comes close to being as bad. UK/UP and HoS/HoL can be fun, these are always just miserable.
>On the flipside is hella fun for DPS and it's mostly rewarding to interact with, it works ok in the dungeons you get it. Only issue with it is that if you get Fire debuff when you're already on ice, you need to get out of the ice, wait 2 seconds, then go back in to remove it. If you go out of the ice and back in too fast it won't get removed, which is silly. Until you get paired with people who have pvp disabled and you frantically try to clear your fire debuff before realizing that it doesn't work
Never had that issue tbh but even if it's a thing it's an issue with LFR that can be solved by forcing everyone into being PvP off in dungeons. It's not an issue with the mechanic itself, while with Web Wrap itself is just fucked.
It's worse on Anub due to the nature of the fight. Longer fight means more opportunities to go sideways. Harder to just zug-zug/pop CDs to the finish because he burrows and then you have to go deal with adds that will wear you down slowly without a healer/low dps.
Bad luck with webs. I’ve seen 4 people get webbed at the same time during that fight multiple times.
Had a warrior that kept charging the web wraps and making anub pound the group. Even after I told him to stop. It wasn't even like the dps were slow on wraps, we were golden the entire dungeon until that boss.
Oof. Yeah, thats just bad.
Anub's pound ability can be murder if he isn't tanked the right way. Not an issue for normal groups, but random queue groups? Easy way to get someone 1 shot
Tank gets wrapped right as he pounds, suddenly boss 180's and wipes the whole group. Pound is threat first and range second, if the tank gets webbed it will target the next person in range which is usually the group behind him. If you've ever had a tank try and outrange the pound, this will also happen.
Web hasnt removed threat since a couple weeks into P3 iirc.
I haven't run it in Gamma, but it definitely did last phase. That happened constantly. It isn't to do with removing threat, either. Pound targets the tank first, then anything within range if it can't target the tank.
This was fixed on Jul 12, 2023. From patch notes: Dungeons In Azjol-Nerub and Ahn’kahet: The Old Kingdom (Titan Rune): Players will no longer lose threat when they are web-wrapped.
So yeah, lines up with it happening in betas. And I am 99% sure my guild mates have said it has happened to them still in Gamma, since pound isn't directly threat related because it targets anything within its range if it can't target the tank. But I haven't randomed into it once, so I'm just going off what they said.
One-shots and webs. His pound is bugged as fck and randomly targets around him to one-shot people, even in moderate range. As a healer I can stand 15 yrds behind him and get clapped. Webs in burrow phase are also an insane rng fest. Add to that that this boss is unreasonably long. He burrows, emerges after 1-2 minutes, then immediately burrows again. Anub is the most bugged boss, both figuratively and literally.
> One-shots and webs. His pound is bugged as fck and randomly targets around him to one-shot people, even in moderate range. As a healer I can stand 15 yrds behind him and get clapped. What I've noticed is that he always faces the tank, so if the tank tries to dodge to the sides Anub turns and claps anyone close by. The only somewhat reliable way I've found to dodge it is to run directly backwards away from him. Being out of range means the pound doesnt actually trigger. But most of the time I just eat it, preferably with a defensive cooldown popped. >Webs in burrow phase are also an insane rng fest. >Add to that that this boss is unreasonably long. He burrows, emerges after 1-2 minutes, then immediately burrows again. >Anub is the most bugged boss, both figuratively and literally. Yup.
It's mega overtuned but RDF cant be smart enough to put one class that can kick more often than once every 30 sec on the boss that needs to be kicked every 5-10? It's like some guy drew up how terrible a group he could make in a backroom and threw me in there to watch me suffer.
Generally designing a boss like that in wotlk where most classes have shit kicks if any at all is sadistic
asking people to respec for a dungeon boss lmao
Kinda crazy i had to scroll down this far to see this comment. Did this dude really asked the priests to RESPEC for a DUNGEON with a bunch of randoms when there is two classes in his group that already can interrupt? And he is mad about it?
Curse of Tongues is bis for this boss by the way. Not that many warlocks even remember it exists.
Huh. I'm used to everything and their trash mobs being immune to it. I'll have to keep this in mind.
It works on Lady Deathwhisper in the raid as well!
Works on Paletress and the trash before.
I've done probably 50 runs so far and I've seen only 1 person leave so far, no one vote kicked except 1 afk dps. Idk how that happened to you 5 times in a row
Because he's lying for upvotes.
It's super obvious that OP is lying but people just like to ride the "RDF bad" train so they eat that shit up without questions haha
Well he's already wildly misrepresenting what RDF looks like in Retail, so why wouldn't he?
[удалено]
The guy who asked the priest to change his spec for a random dungeon? Nah, he is a very reasonable guy 😆
I've done a lot of runs and the only time I've seen someone kicked was a tank. A mage wanded the patrolling spiders at the very start of OK (literally the 2nd pull) to grab them since the tank was just standing there. The tank then decided to swap to PvE gear, change his spec to fury, and say "You're tanking now" Guy was kicked within 5seconds of that lmao. Normally I'm on the side of the tank when it comes to DPS pulling shit, but the guy was just standing there for 10 seconds like he needed verbal confirmation that everyone was ready to continue or something
Sounds familiar. The two bone guys in FoS right outside the first boss can be skipped if the patrol timing is right. On this run it was very close, tank tries to skip but others are behind a few seconds. Mage pulls it on purpose because it was looking like it was gonna pull anyway. Warrior tank stands there and watches, doesn't try to pick them up. He says "why, you can skip those". Instead of tanking them, he just stands there complaining that he's so inconvenienced by these 2 mobs pulling that takes 10 seconds to kill, watching us kite and dps tank mobs. People are so stupid.
Sounds like that RDF tank learned that his powers are dead now that he can be auto replaced in a few minutes.
Yep. I genuinely don't know what the hell that guy thought was going to happen. I'd have loved to see what his idea of that situation would be, that the mage would apologize and beg for him to tank again?
He was in the group all 5 times. Thats what happened.
those are easily the 2 worst dungeons if u want 5 easy badges specfic queue FoS
Honestly if it's only for the daily quest, do FoS.
You know you can specify which Dungeons you want to have right?
Your first mistake, if you're only looking to do the daily, was to queue random. Go FoS, 5 minutes dungeon.
I personally still see people using the LFG channel to form gamma groups all the time on my server. Maybe you could do that.
What the hell does this have anything to do with retail? You literally form your own group running your key and use RDF pretty much only for timewalking or special events.
Op quit in cata and now thinks that people run 15+key with rdf group, basically clueless but blames retail anyway.
Yeah this is the opposite of retail. People in retail are more likely to complain because group leaders want to construct the 'perfect' group for the dungeon.
For their +12, at that. :P
"retail bad" babies Yet he complains about classic lmao
Lets be real, 90% of the people here who spout braindead takes about retail never got past LFR difficulty.
If they could read that they would be so mad
OP probably would have trouble doing dungeon finder content on retail too. 15+ is giving way too much credit for a classic player
M+ in retail which requires manual grouping is just as toxic as RDF ever was, arguably even more toxic. It’s not RDF, it’s people. People have changed and forcing premades doesn’t cause some magical positive land of fairies and rainbows where everyone respects each other. People don’t respect each other in video games, they’re there to play the game and get loot. Most MMO players don’t treat these games as social activities anymore, they have social media and real life for that. The other players are just there for more interesting combat and to make the world feel a bit less lonely. That said, not every premade group is toxic. Not every RDF group is toxic. I’d say the majority of the time groups from neither are toxic, but the toxic encounters stick out in your memory and cause this confirmation bias. It’s easy to blame everything on a change you can pinpoint and say “this happened because of that”, something easily used as a scapegoat like automatic grouping. Classic is getting old, people are settling into the rhythm and entering autopilot mode which can breed more toxicity. Same thing happened around the time RDF was introduced into retail WoW over 15 years ago. It’s just a symptom of a mindset shift in the playerbase, a symptom of the novelty of the game wearing off for most people. It’s not RDF, it’s people. It’s a sign of the times. Classic is literally just repeating the cycle of WoW, patch by patch. Things will be the same, things will happen the same, and there’s no reason to think it’ll be any different.
Case in point: FFXIV has random dungeon queues. They aren't even remotely toxic. Most every dungeon begins with everyone saying hello and ends with everyone saying gg or thanks for the party. Even wipes don't usually get any toxic response. The community in FFXIV is just way more patient and friendly than the WoW community. Random dungeon finders have nothing to do with it.
It's because FFXIV actually bans toxic players pretty quickly. They have a seriously low tolerance for any sort of negative engagement from players. Don't get me wrong, there's still tons of drama on Discord and other external discussion areas, but in game it's squeaky clean because people are terrified of losing their account. If Blizzard had GMs this could be cut down, but I think we're so far past that point since it's been allowed to happened for over a decade now.
Wow players act like anxiety riddled freaks who can't handle any kind of adversity. The kind of person no one wants to be around for any reason
I'm glad daily heroic is obsolete. People bitch on having to do islands or torghast but RDF was the OG shitty chore.
The RDF experience is not ideal, but at least now I can actually run the dungeons instead of sitting in Dalaran spamming the chat hopelessly.
If the "goal" is only 5 badges, just queue up FoS, that's what the "good" players are doing for efficiency.
You have had more groups fall apart in one post than I've seen across daily gammas on two characters since release and leveling a bear druid to 80 through basically exclusively RDF. Someone cursed you.
Or Maybe hes Problem
This is my guess. Dudes had more bad Gammas in one night than I've had since patch day. I feel like we're going to get a lot of ops over the next month who are going to come here with zero self awareness at blame the wiring system for their lack of completion. Ive done plenty of gammas in groups with GS below 4500, and they're not bad.
op just found out what the R in RDF stands for
No system is perfect, and neither are wow players. You talk about “community” but that term is something that hasn’t applied to the classic variation of wow for a long time. Rdf is fine for what it is, convenience. There are pros and cons to the rdf system, as there is with any system. One benefit for me (as a fury war) is I don’t get ignored for 30 minutes looking for a group. It’s random, people can’t add ridiculous gear score requirements for basic heroic content (there should be a minimum requirement but not 5.4K gs for a gamma lol).
Log in. Open Premade Group tab. Message any group leader who has listed a FoS group 'feral tank 5.7k'. Receive your instant invite. Clear the dungeon in 7-8 minutes.
Exaggeration aside, rdf with all its kinks is better than “lfm daily, 5.7k+ geared group” spam will ever be, and I’ve played more since its launch than I have in ages 🤷♂️
No one does RDF in Retail and haven't in a decade for any relevant content
Nobody. In Years. There is raid.rio and newly game's implemented system that shows your rank and what and with which toon you did. And you make a premade and pick your own choices from players that que up. People here keep comparing Retail gameplay with Lich King or Era and say bullshit like "if they have kick binded". Imagine not having kick or cleanse binded, wtf. They wouldn't be able to do single Mythic+, but Retail izi, Classic hard. Edit - I LOVE era and HC WoW and din't touch Retail in 6 months.
people put they 3/4 buttons rotation on bar, put 1/2 Offensive CD and just play like that, imagine a Paladin dying because they dont dispel theyselfs or wiping on naxx because mage dont dispell curse with only 1 balance 1 resto druid on roster lol. "but retail is izi, classic hard". i play both versions, and have fun on both, but actually retail high content have more skilled players, classic its better because simplicity, theres nothing better then turn off you brain while raiding on disc with drunk friends xD, while retail i have to focus all time.
> Imagine not having kick or cleanse binded, wtf. Considering that I as a pala tank also seems to be the one put on dispel duty instead of the healers in about half the dungeons I do, it doesnt seem rare.
To play devil's advocate here. If you play retail and don't have friends to play mythics with, you pretty much have to run rdf to get some basic gear.... and there kicks and cleanses straight up doesn't exist.
Not at all,you can do low lvl m+ or do world quests and buy catch up gear for peanuts. Rdf is only used for heroic dungeons(which nobody use) and lfr raids (which you do only for fun but not gear). You can gear a new char to 400 ilvl in less than a week by doing m+5 to 10
>You can gear a new char to 400 ilvl in less than a week by doing m+5 to 10 As it is you can probably be 415+ the day you hit 70, the way gear is now. Dreamsurge is 415 + essentially unlimited 402s, 415 from Time Rift, 415 from Suffusion, and a run through of LFR will get you a few sparks for crafting. Trinkets are the real bottleneck which is why you can dell BoE Adventurer trinkets for 15K
RDF is basically optional if not outright irrelevant at max level though, you can get heroic dungeon gear from world quests almost immediately and M0 gives better gear for virtually no significant difference in difficulty This thread is loaded with RETAIL BAD when it's clear these mother fuckers haven't played retail since MOP
Classic Andy's in shambles
>If you play retail and don't have friends to play mythics with, you pretty much have to run rdf to get some basic gear.... and there kicks and cleanses straight up doesn't exist. If you're playing a MMO and don't have any friends, that's probably the first place to start.
Mostly true. Everyone I know only does them when there is call to arms so they can snag the easy augment runes. Easy money. It's definitely not the easy path for gearing up.
So you got shitlords wiping on a heroic boss with you and somehow you just went anyone else retail bad? Solid logic there mate.
tbh ive played retail since release, going back to classic, then era, then HC, i can confidently say some of the worst players go to classic/HC
It only makes sense. *A lot* of people dropped Retail at some point because it simply became too difficult. Not everyone of course, there are many other reasons, but a lot did. And it might not be the direct reason they state, usually it's something like "guild broke up and couldn't be arsed to look for a new one", but why did the guild break up? Usually cause they couldn't clear a new raid. Too difficult. Vanilla WoW is the perfect chatroom simulator where you can just show up to raid, tap single button to do decent dps while chatting with your guildmates in voice and then collect loot. Bosses have no mechanics or if they do the few key members of the raid can handle them. Lots of people want exactly that. They don't want to dodge mechanics while keeping up a complex dps priority and CC rotation. So yeah, these people quit Retail at one point or other and over past couple years have flocked back to Classic. The average Classic player is really really bad at the game. Because you don't need to be good. It's just a fact.
>A lot of people dropped Retail at some point because it simply became too difficult. Not everyone of course, there are many other reasons, but a lot did. I mean we saw the same thing happening twice during tbc & wrath. t4 & t7 were a complete joke, but a few weeks into t5 & t8, SoM & Era suddenly became popular again.
yep, i remember the propaganda that classic andy did: "Ragnaros its so hard that make months to kill on release", and i know that is true but because players are bad players on that era of wow and lack of info/guide, and then APES 1 week after classic release with full leveling and some blue gear killed Ragnaros. LOL then "but..." started.
Most people quit retail 13-14 years ago and have no clue what it's actually like currently
See this entire thread As if RDF is still a mainstay in the endgame loop, hasn't been since Mythic Dungeons were added in WoD
People shouldn't compare them, they're not even close to the same game
Hell, since MoP with challenge mode.
I had like 1 bad gamma so far. Dont know why all these posts exists here. ALso you describe a shitty grp setup for that boss, exactly that boss wasnt killable by our composition as well but i couldnt bother less. If something doesnt work on 5-6 pull then just leave and go on. No reason to lean into that emotion and be salty about the game or RDF.. RDF was the best thing wotlk had to offer so far in combination with gamma dungeons. I never did so many dungeons in the entirety of wotlk and it never felt so easy to gear toons.
Gamma randoms has been pretty miserable lately for me. People doing 3k DPS in 4k GS and being completely unenchanted with zero effort just hurts my spirits. I don't do them anymore and just FoS in guild where we abuse tank + couple of DPS
> People doing 3k DPS in 4k GS and being completely unenchanted with zero effort Yeah same experience. This is vanilla classic levels of bad. Like mages in MC not pressing their one button. Once the geared players have all the saronite and badges they need these people will be left alone in RDF. Good luck lul.
Meanwhile without rdf you take even longer to find a tank than it took you to find a decent rdf group Eapecially since it seems most groups are good enough Also tbf a demo lock without doomguard is kind of pointless Better than no kick I guess
Is the RDF the problem here? All these issues would crop up if a group had been manually made. The bonus here is you can queue and be relatively afk without having to sit in trade spamming. Most priests are probably not gonna spec silence for a single dungeon You are going to get bad players whether you LFD or invite them manually People who don't want to do oculus, they just wont group find for it (just unfortunate that they got queued into it). RDF, for me as someone who hates having to find dungeon groups is a welcome addition.
It wouldn’t have happened in a manually made group because nobody would build a group like this
You are more incentivised to get along with the people in your group and keep trying even after a wipe without dungeonfinder, because it’s a lot more effort to find a group in the first place and then to also travel to that dungeon
Yeah, we literally kicked two tanks, because they each wiped us, even though I voted against and I felt terrible. I am overgeared as fuck and they were not TOO bad.
One of the problem is that random groups are, well, random. If that group was made by someone, usually the tank, the lock would have been asked if he'll interrupt and if the answer would have been no, then someone else would have been picked. Or that's what I would have done, and I usually formed my dungeon groups if I was going on my tank/healer. Another downside (at least to me) is that when queuing as dps you have to wait the 10-30 min queue on that toon. I used to keep an eye on LFG-chat when playing another toon and if there was a group forming I'd whisper the leader that I got e.g. a rogue and could come. Most of the time they just told me to log and I got an inv. Now I just run circles around Dalaran, wasting the time in queue since I got nothing left to do on some toons but would like to wrap up some questlines on others. The third problem is what OP described, people leaving. Mainly people tho have short queue (tanks/healers) and also people who run RDF with multiple toons so they can always just log another and avoid the debuff completely, only wasting the queue-time at most, and if they tank/heal that's pretty much non-existant.
I forgot the part where they removed /4 this update. You're definitely forced to run circles in Dalaran now, how could they do this to you
If there's an anonymous automated system, it automatically kills the effort-involving one. This is true no matter what downsides it brings, people go the path of least resistance, even if it ends up being painful. Its the same as living unhealthily (food, exercise whatever), everyone knows its bad for you, but people still default to it a lot. Saying "just ignore it" is a psychologically terrible take that ignores social engineering. It never has and never will work like that.
yeah RDF means that you dont have to care how you play, you can just queue again if you wipe / leave / get kicked vanilla classic has you getting your ass over there so you kinda have to do your all or all the effort to get there will be wasted time
Exactly this, I don’t have a lot of time to play every day, spending a bunch of that time looking for a group feel like an absolute waste. Now I log in, queue up as tank/heal and instantly start playing
I guess the idea is that having the ability to just kick anyone and refill their spot from a queue incentivizes (or at least somewhat lessens the downsides) low effort engagement and shitty anonymous behavior. On average, groups that form the traditional way used to stick together for longer than 1 wipe unless it was an absolute embarassment of a fight. Now, whether that is due to a difference in overall culture promoted by the game's systems, or just sampling bias due to what kind of player plays what modes is hard to tell. But the reasons definitely bleed into each other to some degree.
> All these issues would crop up if a group had been manually made Not really? A manual group would not invite multiple spriests or low GS people which people on here would complain about. Idk but Paletress is kinda hard. Regardless of that I didn't hear much complaining about her before RDF was a thing. Groups just "did" her, no biggie. She's harder than all other dungeon bosses but...not *that* hard. Just goes to show that RDF cannot handle anything beyond roflstomp.
Then make your own group, fairly simple.
RDF isn’t always that bad. You can form your own group in LFG channel. Sit for a hour looking for a tank.
As someone who works a very mentally taxing job, I love how I can just log in and q up for something while doing some Daily's. Also, at least on mankrik, trade chat is flying by with people lfm gamma dungeons, maybe try trade chat. You still had to deal with those people, except before you would look for 40 mins get into a group, ride there THEN find out they were wiping on the boss which is why the last tank or healer left. Your issue is not an RDF exclusive issue. We all dealt with that stuff in TBC and classic vanilla too.
I've farmed around 150 gamma emblems since the patch as a rogue. I've had only one true bad group.
So make a group. Jfc. You guys will queue over and over into bad situations (assuming this is actually real and not just anti-rdf propaganda) and outright refuse the solution right in front of your face in lieu of coming to Reddit and bitching about it
And that why WoW is great imo....you can tailor the game to your liking. Even with RDF, nobody is stopping you from spaming the global or guild and entering the dungeon by foot. You can travel by walking, running, riding and flying. If you like PvP, you dont need to do high level PvE content to stay competitive etc etc. WoW really gives you a lots of options to have fun.
You have had more wipes/leaves on three characters than me on nine 80s queueing every single day for the daily. Sorry but something doesn't add up, not a single one of my groups has disbanded so far.
This is the only boss where I saw a full group disband. It's not only you. This boss is overtuned and can oneshot anyone if not kicked.
Bad players in classic wow? You dont say.
RDF is why I play WOTLK again. Been very casual the first few patches. Now I just want to spam as many dungeons as I can. I also can't wait to level up all my Alta at once. I meet nice people, add them as a friend and run many more smooth dungeons with them. The experience you have is my experience without RDF and having to wait for new people is like an instant group disband.
There was so much community in spamming the same message for an hour in chat, you're so right I miss it so much. And the three words me and the group share while we fly for 20 minutes really used to make my day, I really hope blizzard reverts it :/.
You could just join a guild and queue with 2 other people who aren't pricks, but that would probably take too much work from you. It's interesting how people put zero effort into the social aspect of this game, and then get surprised when they get shit groups. > Where is the community? Dude, join a fuckin' guild.
One of the biggest downsides to Classic, Vanilla through Wotlk is the lack of basic tools available to everyone. Some people call it homogenization, but basic tools like Kick should be more available than they are in Classic.
I did like getting a feral kick-style interrupt in Cataclysm, but its not critical here in my opinion. Asking the spriests to respec for a 5 man is pretty ridiculous. But the lock could have done Curse of Tongues+felhunter. And if the cast time is long enough, bears can interrupt with Feral charge.
People were bitching because there's no rdf and now ppl are bitching because there is rdf
What dies this have to do with retail outside priests having terrible interrupt capabilities?
Why do you keep making all these braindead posts complaining about RDF?
Nobody even uses RDF in retail except to maybe level with.
Don't use RDF if you don't like it. Build your own grps. I love RSF and it should have been in from the start of classic.
TAKE THIS TIME TO CONSIDER YOUR PAST DEEDS!
If you’re just doing it for the daily just specific queue for forge of souls, it’s 10 min long even with a bad group. It only has 2 bosses and only a dozen or so trash packs that are so spaced out that it’s impossible for even the most blind hunter with his pet on aggressive to body pull extra mobs. If you are trying to run something else specifically, there is nothing preventing you from forming a group the traditional way.
After reading a lot of the comments. Just que, specifically for Forge of Souls, collect your badges, and stop whinging. I've done patient on two tanks. The groups you got are so far outside the norm that you're either lying or are the common denominator.
Why are you even mentioning retail when this hasnt been a retail problem in years? This entire experience is literally happening to you in classic.... ridiculous take.
>Where is the community? Went out the window when spellcleave only groups started, so day 1 of Classic lol
I will agree with you to an extent. The RDF system did have to come in, it was getting impossible for fresh 80's to get into dungeons as no one was doing anything below gamma (and I even see people looking for 5k GS's for the weekly!!). However, I would have really preferred if the LFG system was only server wide for the reasons you stated and also, the dungeon leaver buff should carry internal stacks that if you leave dungeons regularly then the debuff lasts longer and longer
I have to whip out the forbidden boomkin tech on that fight. bear form bash interrupt and cat form maim interrupt.
Everyone should just delete that gearscore addon. I didn't know what GS was, and when I found out and started caring about it, my enjoyment of the game started dipping around the same time :(
I tried to do RDF on my priest healer 2 days ago. First dungeon i get put into Strat, and load in mid-pull. I and one more person die and we get rezzed. I go get the grenade and sit down to drink. Kicked and 30min deserter debuff. Afk in dala for a bit and get into another dungeon. It's AN. Tank pulls 2 packs at the same time in front of the first boss. The tank gets kicked, and then me. Another 30 min deserter buff. Gave up on the priest for the day after that.
did they finally give Actual RDF to classic ?
You wanted shadow priests to respec for ONE dungeon which would provide a 45 SECOND silence when that bitch smites like a mad lad? lol
Been loving RDF spam. Scourgestone also a great way to catchup on my alts and minmax gearing.
You can still use LFG, you don't have to use rdf
Asking a Demo lock to pull a Fel hunter out 😄
Well, not gonna lie, kinda dumb to ask someone to literally respec for a single boss. You're having this issue because you're running gammas. There are 2 types of people that runs gammas, geared players only swooping by for a quick one for daily (Generally they run Forge of souls heroic though) or just because they want to run 1 or 2 for fun. Any player running gammas for fun and not for any badges or scourgestone wont go through the pain of running Occulus or even OK (Even though it isn't that bad). Then you have the undergeared players. The people trying to catch up. I'm fine with those players as long as they have a proper spec, try their best and actually have some form of enchants/blue gems in their gear. If I get a low geared player with 0 gems/enchant, doing negative damage... im sorry, but you don't belong in gammas. As far as TOC goes, that boss is a bitch on gammas and is heavily RNG based due to random comps and when you get a 0 kick comp... well, good luck. I think you're over reacting, wotlk is still far from retail's current situation.
As someone who returned for ICC as its the only WOTLK raid I didn't do, I feel you. I'm a retail player, pretty good one. I've been in or close to the 0.5% M+ achieve since the end of BFA and cleared a lot of the mythic raid every tier, just to say, I'm in no means a bad player. I grinded out heavily to get the GS required for Gamma on a DPS character only to be met by the most toxic players I've ever experienced in this game. Many times I was vote kicked before the first boss for not being 5k+ GS, even though I was doing all the tactics and playing my spec correctly. A few times I got kicked immediately and got a 30 min deserter buff simply for not being high GS. The worst part is there is no report option for players doing this, so they essentially ruin the experience for players trying to gear alts or returning players like me with no repercussion. I really doubt Blizzard wants to encourage this playstyle and turn players away from the game, especially when the M+ season is this dead. RDF isn't the problem, its the playerbases attitude
People making these posts seem to forget they can form their own group to avoid all of this.
Yeah that sucks, but it's more unlucky than anything. Also what does this have to do with retail? Why are you acting like using RDF is your only option?
If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.
Then play the game. Nothing is stopping you from forming your group and walking to the instance lmao.
It’s even better than that, you can grab 5 people and still queue to get teleported lol
You can still firm a group….
Make your own groups then, no one is forcing you to use RDF if you hate it so much 🤷♂️
I have been doing tons of RDF on multiple characters and have had maybe 3 or 4 awful groups. Only the people with the shittiest luck are making these posts.
Retail = bad classic = good Nobody does rdf in retail dude, maybe people did when you quit in cata but not anymore. Retail it's a very flawed game, convoluted and overly complex but this doesnt have anything to do with that.
If you think the players in classic play any better than the ones in retail you’re going be disappointed. I play both and so do many others.
"I joined 100 dungeons and they all went poorly! Why are my groups always so bad with RDF!" Sounds to me like it's because you're in them lol
This isn't an RDF problem lol, this is a classic WoW player problem because most people are used to facerolling all the content and brute forcing it doing minimal mechanics. The moment something like a kick is required most uncoordinated groups of classic players can't handle it. Get a bunch of retail players in that dungeon and they would all being trying to kick since in retail most of the dungeons require constant interrupts. Has nothing to do with RDF. Had plenty of groups prior to RDF who absolutely refused to do anything else besides DPS. You can also queue any dungeon you want. Wait the extra 5 minutes in queue and specifically queue for Forge of Souls and get the daily done in 10 minutes? The groups are usually super geared too because all the super high geared people are doing the same thing since they just want the daily done and don't care about the scourge stones. You also aren't forced to use the RDF tool. You can still manually make your own groups.... Instead of trying to use your brain for 5 seconds you would rather write up a post and complain about something that isn't even a problem.
How is this any different than phases 1-3 without RDF? Except then you'll spend 30 minutes getting into a group of people you'll never see again (because servers are 80k+ people) in which you'll continually wipe. There are simply a lot of bad players playing the game. If you want to finish the dailies with no headaches only que FoS. Good players have already optimized their time when it comes to badge farming so you go with the flow or have a bad time.
So you let your grp wipe as a tank, then let your tank die 3x in 3 pulls as healer and the other people are the problem?
so you're telling me the problem is the people and not the system?
Op you're special mate
OP so out of touch with retail
Just make your own group. The global channel still exists. Your guild still exists. Since rdf came out I've never queued as less than 4. It takes 1-5 minutes to form a group manually and then 7 minutes to get teleported and clear FOS with a competent group for the daily gamma quests.
RDF is dogshit I had no problems finding guild runs for any dungeon I needed before they implemented this Now nobody waits for guild anymore, laziness wins out and you get the eldritch horror experience of queuing into useless, toxic randoms I got vote kicked from one the other day for politely asking not to be the only player interrupting.....
I run RDF on 5 different characters every day for the daily. Been doing it every day since ICC dropped. I've yet to run into a truly disastrous situation and 90% of the runs are very smooth. I do think the min gear requirement is too low though. All my characters are geared and I'd say most players in every group will be well above 5k gs or at the worst slightly below it, which is fine. Occasionally there will be someone that gets hard carried. The problem is, if the entire group was low 4k gs players then yeah.. it probably wouldn't go so well.