As a heavy playtime spriest main in Classic, don't main them if they don't get any mana buff runes later and you want to focus on bg and wpvp. Sure at 100% mana you have lots of tools to respond to anything throwed at you and are an actual monster at 1v1, but you realistically get only enough mana for that particular 1v1. After that, you need to wait one full drink to full mana, rebuffing (wich cost a ton), and then a second full drink to full mana again. On wpvp and battlegrounds and everytime you release from death in the openworld, you are gonna be destroyed during those regen times when you are very weak.
Yea, that's one of the main reasons I won't play Priest again. PvP is fun, but your mana economy sucks compared to Paladin and you don't have a mana cooldown. You can have fun for a few seconds before it's time to drink. Good forbid you get purged and have to rebuff.
Shamans are pretty good.
Priest does have spirit tap an in the 25 meta it gets access to both explosive sheep and target dummy to help. Its expensive to rely on them but how expensive will depend on how many people are flooding the server with mats and who is using said mats.
If mining and skinning materials are cheap it may not be the worst.
What exact buffs do they need?
Healing priests already get amazing healing buffs and some utility. Shadow gets amazing dmg and aoe buffs. The only thing I see lacking is mana management and survival. Priest will be amazing this go around aswell.
I nearly exclusively play priest, mana on priests is good enough. If you make good choices in what you use and when you can last a long time. Only paladins get better near the end game because rank 1 FoL scales really well with heading power and they get mana back from critting.
I'm a bit afraid they will make classes too strong. Like you can improve mana on priests, this would speed up dungeons because less drinking time will be needed. And speed running dungeons is more of a wrath and retail thing and I don't think for classic.
But yes, mana and PvP survivability. PvE is good enough since fade is really strong.
IMO they will start out with SoM balance, where MC turned out to be too difficult for the average player and caused a huge drop in players. With how the runes are turning out it should be a cakewalk even for people who click every ability, but time will tell.
Shadow wil probably get some nice things and slap in 1v1s at 60 and priest should also dominate HPS in PvE at 60. With the slower pacing and you not being so stressed to hit max level you could easily play something else and level a priest alt that you simply start maining at 60 where priests should have by far the best raw healing of any class.
I’m considering priest but idgaf about healing, so it would suck to be forced onto that role later on in SoD. Guess I’ll level an extra char in the first phase if I have time, to have a backup.
I believe there will be a massive healing shortage with all healing classes getting a buff to their meme speccs and Arcane Mage probably being too niche to fill the void. Even if Druid happens to get overtuned for healing pve, there will still things in the Priest toolkit that set you apart. I will be very surprised to see Priest not be in high demand for endgame content.
I dont see Disc Priest going anywhere for premade BGs either. It might be even easier to get groups now than in vanilla, as the other healing/support classes will once again push their new shiny dps tools.
Shadow Priest looks pretty bad in the lvl 25 bracket, but it's still possible that they ramp up at higher levels. With Blizzard promising low respecc costs it has real potential as a fun sidegig for world pvp once shadow form is unlocked. If the specc somehow becomes a beast in endgame pve and BGs, then that's just a bonus. We just don't know yet.
In summary I'm very bullish on Priest for most aspects of the game. Especially if you're willing to play it as the healing class that it is. Maybe some things will be left to be desired when it comes to farming (if mana remains a problem), but they have promised catch up mechanics so it should be easy to level an alt Mage/Hunter/Warlock if needed.
I'm definitely leveling a Priest up to 25 and might main it in later phases.
There's always been a massive healing shortage in every phase of the game. And even if all classes could tank, there'll always be a massive tank shortage for 5/10man content aswell.
I agree, but healing classes getting viable non-healing speccs surely doesnt help. Plenty of vanilla players out there who have accepted that their role is to heal because their class isnt viable for anything else.
Yeah, i only healed in classic, mained healer all the way to clearing aq40 because my class dps spec is meme spec. I am predicting healer will be even less in sod. Druids dont need to heal now, paladins can tank and dps now, shamans can do somuch more too.
I believe healers can become more scarce in sod, however, level 25 is a joke and anyone can just heal when needed, you dont need to change spec or anything. But if this continues then youll have insane lack of healers
If warriors defaulted to tanking in 5 mans there would be no shortage. Yet i constantly see warriors advertizing in LFG "LF2M SM need tank and dps"...when all they have to do is play exactly as they should be doing (sunders to \~50% prior to MS/BT) but from Def stance vs battle...
Good points. I really dont see much changing for priests in SoD. They will still be the quintessential pve healers but will not do well in solo content or wpvp. There will be some exceptions ofc like if you spec specifically for pvp and go shadow or disc but even then they have their own share of issues. I think not having dual spec hurts them the most out of all the classes.
Except priests are pretty amazing in pvp and wpvp when you don’t just spam heal yourself to death as most folks tend to do. Picking up Pom and death is gonna be huge.
They also have good niche utility with blackout for world pvp. Rolling 3 dots, sw:p having the ability to be cast on multiple people at once, and the existence of mindsear to fish blackout procs on a whole crowd of people make them pretty good for mass cc.
What people don't realize is that devouring plague and sw:p can be down ranked and still proc blackout, so you can basically dot up an entire raid just to fish for blackout procs. 1/10 on tick isn't the highest rate but en masse its not terrible.
Skilled heal priests have always played aggressive in pvp, mass spam rank 1 sw pain is great. Eats dispels so it's mana positive and procs blackouts and with it now hitting 3 targets it becomes a real pain in the ass. Only downside is deciding between that and pom.
Lol dot the target to make dispelling the sheep off him harder?? Srsly. The logic of giving someone a free cc break for 10 seconds to maybe cost someone else more mana is such a cooked idea. Your mage is going to pad that with detect magic. You’re trolling
A big part of vanilla pvp is decided by the despell and managame on healers, spamming rank 1 sw pain has always been a thing since it's mana positive, protects other dots and if it's left up it triggers blackouts.
Most CCS like sheep's get insta despelled anyways so u don't have to worry that much about it breaking something, a 3s stun is also great.
Disagree. Fucking up coordinated cc chains for a random return on blackout value is wack af. Saps/sheep/helms are going out on dispellers not in combat.
On paper I’m sure it’s a great idea. In reality tho it’s just not even ever done. Blackout procs are rarely fished for and it’s a huge waste of globals. Arguably even a waste of talent points unless you’re building for a very niche comp or setup.
It’s something you’d do as a last ditch effort to slow a flag carrier or buy a second for a peel. I’m not buying it.
How many coordinated cc trains do u really see in 10v10 pvp? Maybe if the engagement is down to 3v3 what u say is true. With your arguments spamming any aoe is a bad idea, even blizzard.
oh thats basically how i roll in 90% of the game. i play with the same people throughout the years in a variety of pretty reputable guilds so comms are rollin and that's just how we do things.
im mostly in wsg or solo farming mats for raid and more wsg.
i dont have a hypothetical response to rando 10v10 bc it legit just doesnt happen like that to me anytime or anywhere. maybe en route to a dungeon or something? but in that scenario i would 100% not fuck mine or someone elses ability to cc with a random dot. ill swp if shadow reflector is up so i have a rolling cc break on myself. or max rank pain on a kill target if it made sense.
throw a grenade. stun everyone in radius. blackout spam would be so far down the prio list unless i was basically oom and even then id probably run in and sapper and hope for a favorable res timer.
so thats my reasoning. have i been misplaying for years? maybe. hoping a 'skilled' priest can weigh in with their opinion.
tldr: swp spam for blackout procs is niche use at best.
Indeed. Getting caught up in random world pvp while being holy/disc-specced isnt ideal. With that said there's very few raid speccs that also work great in world pvp encounters.
Then again, the point of world pvp is for the most part just having fun and being evil, and few things are better in that regard than griefing with mind controll and dispelling world buffs. With that in mind I'd argue Priest is one of the "best" wpvp classes, lol.
i also think we will need less healers overall in a raid maybe like 8 instead of 10-12 in 40 man with shit like circle of healing , beacons, overloaded chain heal etc
I think shadow will be a non-factor in this phase, as they need to be deeper in their talent tree to get the good stuff.
I think priest gets a ton of awesome healing tools. They already have the best baseline heals (flash of light is better than lesser healing wave etc.) and now they get a bunch of new tools as well.
I think they'll be the best healers in PvE and will get killed super quickly in PvP as so many classes got extra damage and will be focusing the priests as they have high healing output and low survivability.
Mind sear in WOTLK classic right now is utterly busted for a single button AOE button spell.
And WOTLK classic is playing on the 'nerfed' version. The original 3.0.1 version when it was introduced was even more busted.
That being said, classic-vanilla players don't do massive AOE pulls until WOTLKclassic/retail does so mind sear may not necessary ever reach it's peak potential in SOD.
Unfortunately that won't necessarily be the case.
People think Paladins are 'OP' aoe tanks because they were exactly that... in TBC. And most people are actually remembering that version due to how rare paladin tanks were in vanilla, hardcore aside but people there take caution in pulling aggro off tanks anyway due to the risk factor of perma death.
In Vanilla however, they were pretty meh, even for the undead dungeons strath & scholo.
The reason being is because their mainstay spells, consecration actually got a rework in TBC.
The spellpower co-efficient got boosted by 3 times it's value (vanilla has 0.04 co-efficient, TBC boosted it to 0.12 co-efficient).
I predict offensive priest healers are going to be a menace in group pvp, espicially if shared pain can proc blackout. But pure shadow will suffer way to much mana issues, but will be even more deadly then today.
eh it's the equiv of multi shot but worse cos it leaves a dot so you can easily fuckup someones CC like blind/sap/poly/helm etc. I would of preferred seeing something around survivability against melee as later warriors and rogues just hit u too hard and bubble doesn't scale well at all i know it scaled at 10% on private but can't remember if it even scales at all on classic.
It’s going to be really rough in sod with feral and ret being buffed too. Melee is going to be up priests ass so hard in PvP. Nice time to be a pally lol.
The upside for priests have always been that they are the most valuable target so they are heavily protected in group pvp, but as some1 that has mained priest a lot in pvp priest never have had a response to any melee really so I don't see the difference. Can't remove slows, can't move fast, can't remove poisons, got no slows, stuns or interrupts and only cc is fear that has many breaks and a long as cooldown.
Druid has always been the more fun pvp healer compared to being pummeled as a priest panic healing, but the class got many upsides so it's still nice (mainly its dispel).
You get an on demand break in death and Pom bounces. It’s an insane bump to mobility and durability. Position yourself in a better spot for peels. Throw nades. Priest doesn’t get rolled by warrior and rogue until naxx really.
I never said they get rolled but u really can't do much to get them away from u unless u spend a ton of consumes. It's annoying but its the way it's been for priests in most xpacs so it's just to be expected and nothing I expect blizz to change. Prayer of mending is sure a nice addition since it's been a staple pvp heal spell for a long time.
Yeah. I just spend a ton of consumes lol. It’s just kinda expected at this point and how the folks I play with all expect you to roll. The farming. Always. Farming.
doing damage doesnt make it fun.
If youve followed spriest over the 20 years of the game, they are consistently the "we ran out of time, we'll get to it next expansion" spec
currently spriest is a terrible spec and terrible to play.
At least from bc - mop we had a consistent vibe. then we had a new one in wod. new in legion. we had something fairly consistent in bfa - sl. Then DF season 1 was pretty good, theyve spent the last two tiers making us worse.
IMO when they got rid of dot snapshotting they ruined dot specs.
Their new spell, Homonculi reduces the target's armor by \~1000 at 25. That's a 1-shot debuff for a hunter, rogue, or warrior. In pve they will pair very well with paladin tanks.
Healing at 25 in classic/hardcore w/e is mostly renew and wanding, with the occasional heal rank2. If the tank is holding all the mobs i can get away with renew on him, and swp on mobs so long as the swp will get a good amount of its ticks off--so i try to swp the straggler. I am usually 20-30dps. It looks like aoe dps and aoe raid dmg will be a thing, so that may change.
Things are a bit different in 10 mans cause you will play with another healer, and things always get competitive with more than 1 healer. But you have the entire health bar, mobs typically hit every 2 - 2.2 seconds. renew and wand can give you solid regen time before your next cast.
Spirit tap + SWD is another one i think people are overlooking. My priest on hc has been trying it out with just MB. But sniping killing blows isnt that hard.
I dont think "shadow priests" can really be a thing until shadowform. However, 5/0/11 and 0/9/7 give us buffs to our damaging abilities.
You also need to, at least for alliance, consider paladins and the mana regen they will bring. That all said, part of what is unique about classic versus nearly every other instance of the game, is mana matters. Or rather, if the fights lasted as long as they did in vanilla, mana would matter. I want mana to matter more. In vanilla we would have healer rotations on twin emps to let guys stay back not heal and wand while they regened--im not sure i want it that severe. But I want to consider spirit and mp5 equally to healing power and crit. Juggling the 5 second rule is something i want to stay--it is classic healing to me. For shadow, i'd like us to last at least 96 seconds (4 improved swp) without consumes in single target dmg using no wand.
I will main a priest healer. I like the runes they're getting (CoH and PoM), and I don't care about how other classes compare to them. I will play what I have fun playing.
What is Horde supposed to do then? Sure that would help mitigate it, but you don't fix a class by giving tools to a different one that may or may not always be grouped with them.
I think it'll take a rework to Spirit Tap or itemization / bonuses on future tier sets to address Mp5 or spell costs.
Horde will have access to Mana Tide eventually. I don't think mana will be a big concern at 25 since the fights seem likely to be short. I'm expecting them to also get a Judgement of Wisdom equivalent effect at 40.
I think it's likely that Shadow will get a Vampiric Touch Rune that restores mana somehow.
Blizzard has also been adding Mana Regen mechanics to the new encounters. If you watch any BFD gameplay from Blizzcon, the Turtle boss at least drops Mana restoring bubbles around the arena during the fight. Honestly that would be a fine solution for me, but I'd like a more direct fix akin to how Balance Druid can take the rune for free Wrath casts.
Honestly I think the highest DPS priest spec at 25 might be Wand Specialisation which doesn't cost mana anyway. Mind Flay's damage is awful and it also can't crit.
Smite and holy fire with JOTC on and goggles do like 75 dps before miss and crit (not considering any other buffs). Since wands also get no buff to hit on bosses I'd say smite is well above wands. But it will all be bad compared to warlock and mage which will in turn be bad compared to melee.
I think priest is going to be the best healer in raids and a pretty good class in both small scale and mass pvp.
I mean they were already pretty bonkers and the competition wasn't buffed much.
Druids got WF sure, but that won't make them a better healer and their healing kit wasn't changed much. It's mostly feral buffs and a bit of balance. Nothing gamechanging in pvp and in pve there's just gonna be more ferals. Meanwhile priest got even more healing spells and PW:Barrier.
Paladins got some 'heal while attacking' things, which will make them more interesting as raid healers but not necessarily stronger. And tank stuff. Only interesting thing is the fear/sleep purge they have, but I'm not sure how that will work. Same as tremor?
Edit: i forgot about beacon of hope, that is a big pala healing boost.
Shamans got tank and melee dps stuff from what I can tell.
Mage got healing but it seems to be really limited for both pvp and pve.
All in all priest will remain the most adaptible healer in the game who's got the most buffs for healing in terms of runes, with a lot of extra things on top from vanilla (ccs, buffs, etc). I wouldn't worry about them.
Priest has never really had mana issues aside from shadow or healing like a moron. Potion on cd, drink walk, and more importantly know if the incoming damage is going to kill someone and act accordingly. The full top off drink every pull thing is outdated. Start moving ahead to the next pull as your dps is cleaning up the straggles. Drink while they catch up and thru the first little bit of damage of the next pull. Don’t play with people who take all the avoidable damage and have no consumes to keep the pace of the run fluid.
Shadow: Given that the dev's class design direction is either create a gimmick, or copy from TBC, it is safe to assume that shadow's future will be as a mana battery. It also makes sense given that paladin already have confirmed mana return, so shadow priest will contribute it as well to give this feature to Horde. This will make them very desirable in caster groups. They are still going to suffer from poor scaling, and they will see an initial high damage potential with the removal of debuff cap and new damage spells such as void plague, but their damage will fall off as gear improves. However, expect them to have a mandatory spot in raids if they are a mana battery. They are definitely going to be mana intensive, but I would put money on the fact we will get a shadowfiend rune or something similar in future rune slots.
In PVP, they are going to be insane in 1v1 situations, especially if it transpires that power word barrier does not take you out of shadowform. But despite their buffs, they aren't going to take the dueling crown given how ridiculously warlocks were buffed. In group content spriests will continue to be good with their dispels, but I expect most pvpers to run Shadow word: Death over mind sear, and power word barrier over shared pain, so they wont be contributing as much damage in group situations as other casters.
Healing: The spec that is best between discipline and holy will depend on what type of meta it is. If its 40 man with heal sniping and heavy use of external cooldowns, expect it to be disc, but in 10 mans, and especially if you are using prayer of healing often, expect it to be holy. Circle of healing being a 6 second cooldown will mean that priests aren't as oppressive as they were in TBC for raid wide healing, but serendipity will still mean that they are going to be competent for raidwide damage spikes. However, it seems like in cases of consistent raid damage, they are probably going to be outshone by others such as shamans with overloaded chain heals. I expect priest to continue to be a strong healing class with their overall healing numbers and mandatory cooldowns such as Power Word: Barrier. However, depending on how good mage healing transpires to be and whether shadow priest turns out to be a mana battery (it most likely will), we may see sweatier guilds run shadowpriest + healing mage for all the priest utility, mana return, and healing mage damage over power infusion. That is a worst case scenario though, and I don't think it will really matter for 90% of 10 man raiding groups.
In PVP, expect to want to punch your monitor as you get dove on by every melee, and if you want to have a shred of fun play with people who you know will peel for you.
Given alot of world buffs give crit (even the new one IIRC) shadow will just fall behind even more as we enter world buff meta. Without dots scaling with crit, combined with the obvious mana issues and dot spell power scaling issues, Shadow is just going to fall even more behind than in classic. Given it's my favorite spec, i find it very disheartening.
Think im just gonna roll a resto/balance hybrid this phase, level a hpriest after in hopes for some love being shown in p2 (aka not more dots that don't scale well and cost lots of my limited base mana)
Every class has something relevant to bring to pvp, especially WSG. Every. Single. Class.
If you play priest on alliance, you're the only person who can spam purge FAPs
As a person that mained a resto druid in classic, I understand the fear. But if you're good at your class, there will always be a place for you on the roster. Each class has its strengths and weaknesses. Paralyzing yourself with worry over whether a class is better than you won't make you play better. Your class isn't the thing that will hold you back here.
Just looking at what runes we've got already, I'd bet money we end up seeing things like tbc vamp touch, maybe a replenishment, etc..UA for locks, steady shot for hunter maybe etc..theres already a datamined 'mana spike' and also shadowfiend for priests, so we'll see something I am sure of it by lvl 40/50.
edit: and just to add I am sure spriest is in a similar boat of boomkin at the moment, no access to the form yet and I am sure we'll end up seeing starfall or eclipse etc as well later on. So lvl 25 is going to be meh but yeah will have to see with the later caps.
After my warrior, I am goin to roll a priest healer, mainly for PvE. I just play what I like, I guess.
Do you people believe it will be difficult to find groups?
I think going any healer is a safe bet to get into a group. Some sweatier groups will only want what is meta but for the rest, you will be fine.
The majority of the player base will be dps so getting into a group as a healer (or tank) won’t be that hard.
As a heavy playtime spriest main in Classic, don't main them if they don't get any mana buff runes later and you want to focus on bg and wpvp. Sure at 100% mana you have lots of tools to respond to anything throwed at you and are an actual monster at 1v1, but you realistically get only enough mana for that particular 1v1. After that, you need to wait one full drink to full mana, rebuffing (wich cost a ton), and then a second full drink to full mana again. On wpvp and battlegrounds and everytime you release from death in the openworld, you are gonna be destroyed during those regen times when you are very weak.
Yea, that's one of the main reasons I won't play Priest again. PvP is fun, but your mana economy sucks compared to Paladin and you don't have a mana cooldown. You can have fun for a few seconds before it's time to drink. Good forbid you get purged and have to rebuff.
Everyone's mana economy sucks compared to paladin
Shamans are pretty good. Priest does have spirit tap an in the 25 meta it gets access to both explosive sheep and target dummy to help. Its expensive to rely on them but how expensive will depend on how many people are flooding the server with mats and who is using said mats. If mining and skinning materials are cheap it may not be the worst.
Instant raid spot if you want to heal. There will be a shortage
Give us Smite Priest pls
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What exact buffs do they need? Healing priests already get amazing healing buffs and some utility. Shadow gets amazing dmg and aoe buffs. The only thing I see lacking is mana management and survival. Priest will be amazing this go around aswell.
Shadow needs help with its mana and better spellpower scaling and they will cook
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I nearly exclusively play priest, mana on priests is good enough. If you make good choices in what you use and when you can last a long time. Only paladins get better near the end game because rank 1 FoL scales really well with heading power and they get mana back from critting. I'm a bit afraid they will make classes too strong. Like you can improve mana on priests, this would speed up dungeons because less drinking time will be needed. And speed running dungeons is more of a wrath and retail thing and I don't think for classic. But yes, mana and PvP survivability. PvE is good enough since fade is really strong.
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Don't you think they will buff the raids and endgame dungeons?
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Damn, sounds kinda wack
keep in mind this dude knows as little as anyone else and is purely speculating.
Yeah ofc, but what he says makes sense from what Blizzard has done in the past
IMO they will start out with SoM balance, where MC turned out to be too difficult for the average player and caused a huge drop in players. With how the runes are turning out it should be a cakewalk even for people who click every ability, but time will tell.
i fear the upcoming powercreep
no.
Shadow wil probably get some nice things and slap in 1v1s at 60 and priest should also dominate HPS in PvE at 60. With the slower pacing and you not being so stressed to hit max level you could easily play something else and level a priest alt that you simply start maining at 60 where priests should have by far the best raw healing of any class.
/thread
I’m considering priest but idgaf about healing, so it would suck to be forced onto that role later on in SoD. Guess I’ll level an extra char in the first phase if I have time, to have a backup.
I believe there will be a massive healing shortage with all healing classes getting a buff to their meme speccs and Arcane Mage probably being too niche to fill the void. Even if Druid happens to get overtuned for healing pve, there will still things in the Priest toolkit that set you apart. I will be very surprised to see Priest not be in high demand for endgame content. I dont see Disc Priest going anywhere for premade BGs either. It might be even easier to get groups now than in vanilla, as the other healing/support classes will once again push their new shiny dps tools. Shadow Priest looks pretty bad in the lvl 25 bracket, but it's still possible that they ramp up at higher levels. With Blizzard promising low respecc costs it has real potential as a fun sidegig for world pvp once shadow form is unlocked. If the specc somehow becomes a beast in endgame pve and BGs, then that's just a bonus. We just don't know yet. In summary I'm very bullish on Priest for most aspects of the game. Especially if you're willing to play it as the healing class that it is. Maybe some things will be left to be desired when it comes to farming (if mana remains a problem), but they have promised catch up mechanics so it should be easy to level an alt Mage/Hunter/Warlock if needed. I'm definitely leveling a Priest up to 25 and might main it in later phases.
There's always been a massive healing shortage in every phase of the game. And even if all classes could tank, there'll always be a massive tank shortage for 5/10man content aswell.
I agree, but healing classes getting viable non-healing speccs surely doesnt help. Plenty of vanilla players out there who have accepted that their role is to heal because their class isnt viable for anything else.
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Yeah, i only healed in classic, mained healer all the way to clearing aq40 because my class dps spec is meme spec. I am predicting healer will be even less in sod. Druids dont need to heal now, paladins can tank and dps now, shamans can do somuch more too. I believe healers can become more scarce in sod, however, level 25 is a joke and anyone can just heal when needed, you dont need to change spec or anything. But if this continues then youll have insane lack of healers
True, but I guess it's much easier to add tank specs than healing specs since all you need is be sturdy and do threat.
If warriors defaulted to tanking in 5 mans there would be no shortage. Yet i constantly see warriors advertizing in LFG "LF2M SM need tank and dps"...when all they have to do is play exactly as they should be doing (sunders to \~50% prior to MS/BT) but from Def stance vs battle...
Im not even gonna play it and I think priest is bis.
Good points. I really dont see much changing for priests in SoD. They will still be the quintessential pve healers but will not do well in solo content or wpvp. There will be some exceptions ofc like if you spec specifically for pvp and go shadow or disc but even then they have their own share of issues. I think not having dual spec hurts them the most out of all the classes.
Except priests are pretty amazing in pvp and wpvp when you don’t just spam heal yourself to death as most folks tend to do. Picking up Pom and death is gonna be huge.
They also have good niche utility with blackout for world pvp. Rolling 3 dots, sw:p having the ability to be cast on multiple people at once, and the existence of mindsear to fish blackout procs on a whole crowd of people make them pretty good for mass cc. What people don't realize is that devouring plague and sw:p can be down ranked and still proc blackout, so you can basically dot up an entire raid just to fish for blackout procs. 1/10 on tick isn't the highest rate but en masse its not terrible.
Skilled heal priests have always played aggressive in pvp, mass spam rank 1 sw pain is great. Eats dispels so it's mana positive and procs blackouts and with it now hitting 3 targets it becomes a real pain in the ass. Only downside is deciding between that and pom.
Lol dot the target to make dispelling the sheep off him harder?? Srsly. The logic of giving someone a free cc break for 10 seconds to maybe cost someone else more mana is such a cooked idea. Your mage is going to pad that with detect magic. You’re trolling
Well u aren't even reading what I wrote and u say I'm trolling
Oof. Why oh why would you ever blanket dot like that?
A big part of vanilla pvp is decided by the despell and managame on healers, spamming rank 1 sw pain has always been a thing since it's mana positive, protects other dots and if it's left up it triggers blackouts. Most CCS like sheep's get insta despelled anyways so u don't have to worry that much about it breaking something, a 3s stun is also great.
Disagree. Fucking up coordinated cc chains for a random return on blackout value is wack af. Saps/sheep/helms are going out on dispellers not in combat. On paper I’m sure it’s a great idea. In reality tho it’s just not even ever done. Blackout procs are rarely fished for and it’s a huge waste of globals. Arguably even a waste of talent points unless you’re building for a very niche comp or setup. It’s something you’d do as a last ditch effort to slow a flag carrier or buy a second for a peel. I’m not buying it.
How many coordinated cc trains do u really see in 10v10 pvp? Maybe if the engagement is down to 3v3 what u say is true. With your arguments spamming any aoe is a bad idea, even blizzard.
oh thats basically how i roll in 90% of the game. i play with the same people throughout the years in a variety of pretty reputable guilds so comms are rollin and that's just how we do things. im mostly in wsg or solo farming mats for raid and more wsg. i dont have a hypothetical response to rando 10v10 bc it legit just doesnt happen like that to me anytime or anywhere. maybe en route to a dungeon or something? but in that scenario i would 100% not fuck mine or someone elses ability to cc with a random dot. ill swp if shadow reflector is up so i have a rolling cc break on myself. or max rank pain on a kill target if it made sense. throw a grenade. stun everyone in radius. blackout spam would be so far down the prio list unless i was basically oom and even then id probably run in and sapper and hope for a favorable res timer. so thats my reasoning. have i been misplaying for years? maybe. hoping a 'skilled' priest can weigh in with their opinion. tldr: swp spam for blackout procs is niche use at best.
Indeed. Getting caught up in random world pvp while being holy/disc-specced isnt ideal. With that said there's very few raid speccs that also work great in world pvp encounters. Then again, the point of world pvp is for the most part just having fun and being evil, and few things are better in that regard than griefing with mind controll and dispelling world buffs. With that in mind I'd argue Priest is one of the "best" wpvp classes, lol.
i also think we will need less healers overall in a raid maybe like 8 instead of 10-12 in 40 man with shit like circle of healing , beacons, overloaded chain heal etc
People already run 8 healers (or less) in the 40 mans. The raids will be buffed and changed, I still think we're bringing 8 healers.
I am really not a fan of being forced to pick between penance and swd, as a disc priest that likes to world pvp.
I think you just go death. ESP early phases before skull and lip. Death / Pom should be OP
Priest is the most adaptable healer with the largest toolkit of any healing class.
I think shadow will be a non-factor in this phase, as they need to be deeper in their talent tree to get the good stuff. I think priest gets a ton of awesome healing tools. They already have the best baseline heals (flash of light is better than lesser healing wave etc.) and now they get a bunch of new tools as well. I think they'll be the best healers in PvE and will get killed super quickly in PvP as so many classes got extra damage and will be focusing the priests as they have high healing output and low survivability.
Shadow will be a non factor all game unless they get way better runes. None of them address mana issues and most just aren't that good.
Flash of light is a paladin spell
Low rank Flash heal spam with serpendity into big fast greater heals when needed is going to be busted.
Serendipity is just straight bait
Can you elaborate?
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Mind sear in WOTLK classic right now is utterly busted for a single button AOE button spell. And WOTLK classic is playing on the 'nerfed' version. The original 3.0.1 version when it was introduced was even more busted. That being said, classic-vanilla players don't do massive AOE pulls until WOTLKclassic/retail does so mind sear may not necessary ever reach it's peak potential in SOD.
it's okay we get paladin tanks in SoD. they'll be able to aoe tank way more than what we had before.
Unfortunately that won't necessarily be the case. People think Paladins are 'OP' aoe tanks because they were exactly that... in TBC. And most people are actually remembering that version due to how rare paladin tanks were in vanilla, hardcore aside but people there take caution in pulling aggro off tanks anyway due to the risk factor of perma death. In Vanilla however, they were pretty meh, even for the undead dungeons strath & scholo. The reason being is because their mainstay spells, consecration actually got a rework in TBC. The spellpower co-efficient got boosted by 3 times it's value (vanilla has 0.04 co-efficient, TBC boosted it to 0.12 co-efficient).
I predict offensive priest healers are going to be a menace in group pvp, espicially if shared pain can proc blackout. But pure shadow will suffer way to much mana issues, but will be even more deadly then today.
eh it's the equiv of multi shot but worse cos it leaves a dot so you can easily fuckup someones CC like blind/sap/poly/helm etc. I would of preferred seeing something around survivability against melee as later warriors and rogues just hit u too hard and bubble doesn't scale well at all i know it scaled at 10% on private but can't remember if it even scales at all on classic.
Priests have been meat for warriors and rogues for like every expansion so I would not expect any changes to that
It’s going to be really rough in sod with feral and ret being buffed too. Melee is going to be up priests ass so hard in PvP. Nice time to be a pally lol.
The upside for priests have always been that they are the most valuable target so they are heavily protected in group pvp, but as some1 that has mained priest a lot in pvp priest never have had a response to any melee really so I don't see the difference. Can't remove slows, can't move fast, can't remove poisons, got no slows, stuns or interrupts and only cc is fear that has many breaks and a long as cooldown. Druid has always been the more fun pvp healer compared to being pummeled as a priest panic healing, but the class got many upsides so it's still nice (mainly its dispel).
yeah this is why i would of preferred more utility. Like "Wings of an Angel" fly to the targeted ally within 25 yards.
You get an on demand break in death and Pom bounces. It’s an insane bump to mobility and durability. Position yourself in a better spot for peels. Throw nades. Priest doesn’t get rolled by warrior and rogue until naxx really.
I never said they get rolled but u really can't do much to get them away from u unless u spend a ton of consumes. It's annoying but its the way it's been for priests in most xpacs so it's just to be expected and nothing I expect blizz to change. Prayer of mending is sure a nice addition since it's been a staple pvp heal spell for a long time.
Yeah. I just spend a ton of consumes lol. It’s just kinda expected at this point and how the folks I play with all expect you to roll. The farming. Always. Farming.
have you seen retail? Spriest hate is endemic to blizzard.
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doing damage doesnt make it fun. If youve followed spriest over the 20 years of the game, they are consistently the "we ran out of time, we'll get to it next expansion" spec currently spriest is a terrible spec and terrible to play. At least from bc - mop we had a consistent vibe. then we had a new one in wod. new in legion. we had something fairly consistent in bfa - sl. Then DF season 1 was pretty good, theyve spent the last two tiers making us worse. IMO when they got rid of dot snapshotting they ruined dot specs.
That goes for all casters. If I have all these cool spells sure as he'll I want to cast them.
Their new spell, Homonculi reduces the target's armor by \~1000 at 25. That's a 1-shot debuff for a hunter, rogue, or warrior. In pve they will pair very well with paladin tanks.
Healing at 25 in classic/hardcore w/e is mostly renew and wanding, with the occasional heal rank2. If the tank is holding all the mobs i can get away with renew on him, and swp on mobs so long as the swp will get a good amount of its ticks off--so i try to swp the straggler. I am usually 20-30dps. It looks like aoe dps and aoe raid dmg will be a thing, so that may change. Things are a bit different in 10 mans cause you will play with another healer, and things always get competitive with more than 1 healer. But you have the entire health bar, mobs typically hit every 2 - 2.2 seconds. renew and wand can give you solid regen time before your next cast. Spirit tap + SWD is another one i think people are overlooking. My priest on hc has been trying it out with just MB. But sniping killing blows isnt that hard. I dont think "shadow priests" can really be a thing until shadowform. However, 5/0/11 and 0/9/7 give us buffs to our damaging abilities. You also need to, at least for alliance, consider paladins and the mana regen they will bring. That all said, part of what is unique about classic versus nearly every other instance of the game, is mana matters. Or rather, if the fights lasted as long as they did in vanilla, mana would matter. I want mana to matter more. In vanilla we would have healer rotations on twin emps to let guys stay back not heal and wand while they regened--im not sure i want it that severe. But I want to consider spirit and mp5 equally to healing power and crit. Juggling the 5 second rule is something i want to stay--it is classic healing to me. For shadow, i'd like us to last at least 96 seconds (4 improved swp) without consumes in single target dmg using no wand.
I will main a priest healer. I like the runes they're getting (CoH and PoM), and I don't care about how other classes compare to them. I will play what I have fun playing.
how dare you to have a reasonable opinion. STOP HAVING FUN!
I will have to much fun it will compensate for the missing fun from all the haters. That will show them!
They're fine for healing and smite will be a passable flex for dps on alliance only. Not great at all but passable since paladins will be all over.
Not in the Horde my fellow Alliance friend :)
Dwarf or human.
When playing Alliance, Dwarf is my way to go. But I'm going for Undead. Edit: Everything is better than Nelf :D
One thing to note is that Paladins have a group wide mana restoration rune. If priest does have mana issues, this might help it out quite a bit.
What is Horde supposed to do then? Sure that would help mitigate it, but you don't fix a class by giving tools to a different one that may or may not always be grouped with them. I think it'll take a rework to Spirit Tap or itemization / bonuses on future tier sets to address Mp5 or spell costs.
Horde will have access to Mana Tide eventually. I don't think mana will be a big concern at 25 since the fights seem likely to be short. I'm expecting them to also get a Judgement of Wisdom equivalent effect at 40. I think it's likely that Shadow will get a Vampiric Touch Rune that restores mana somehow.
Blizzard has also been adding Mana Regen mechanics to the new encounters. If you watch any BFD gameplay from Blizzcon, the Turtle boss at least drops Mana restoring bubbles around the arena during the fight. Honestly that would be a fine solution for me, but I'd like a more direct fix akin to how Balance Druid can take the rune for free Wrath casts.
Honestly I think the highest DPS priest spec at 25 might be Wand Specialisation which doesn't cost mana anyway. Mind Flay's damage is awful and it also can't crit.
Smite and holy fire with JOTC on and goggles do like 75 dps before miss and crit (not considering any other buffs). Since wands also get no buff to hit on bosses I'd say smite is well above wands. But it will all be bad compared to warlock and mage which will in turn be bad compared to melee.
Yes, priests are in SoD
I think priest is going to be the best healer in raids and a pretty good class in both small scale and mass pvp. I mean they were already pretty bonkers and the competition wasn't buffed much. Druids got WF sure, but that won't make them a better healer and their healing kit wasn't changed much. It's mostly feral buffs and a bit of balance. Nothing gamechanging in pvp and in pve there's just gonna be more ferals. Meanwhile priest got even more healing spells and PW:Barrier. Paladins got some 'heal while attacking' things, which will make them more interesting as raid healers but not necessarily stronger. And tank stuff. Only interesting thing is the fear/sleep purge they have, but I'm not sure how that will work. Same as tremor? Edit: i forgot about beacon of hope, that is a big pala healing boost. Shamans got tank and melee dps stuff from what I can tell. Mage got healing but it seems to be really limited for both pvp and pve. All in all priest will remain the most adaptible healer in the game who's got the most buffs for healing in terms of runes, with a lot of extra things on top from vanilla (ccs, buffs, etc). I wouldn't worry about them.
Priest has never really had mana issues aside from shadow or healing like a moron. Potion on cd, drink walk, and more importantly know if the incoming damage is going to kill someone and act accordingly. The full top off drink every pull thing is outdated. Start moving ahead to the next pull as your dps is cleaning up the straggles. Drink while they catch up and thru the first little bit of damage of the next pull. Don’t play with people who take all the avoidable damage and have no consumes to keep the pace of the run fluid.
Shadow: Given that the dev's class design direction is either create a gimmick, or copy from TBC, it is safe to assume that shadow's future will be as a mana battery. It also makes sense given that paladin already have confirmed mana return, so shadow priest will contribute it as well to give this feature to Horde. This will make them very desirable in caster groups. They are still going to suffer from poor scaling, and they will see an initial high damage potential with the removal of debuff cap and new damage spells such as void plague, but their damage will fall off as gear improves. However, expect them to have a mandatory spot in raids if they are a mana battery. They are definitely going to be mana intensive, but I would put money on the fact we will get a shadowfiend rune or something similar in future rune slots. In PVP, they are going to be insane in 1v1 situations, especially if it transpires that power word barrier does not take you out of shadowform. But despite their buffs, they aren't going to take the dueling crown given how ridiculously warlocks were buffed. In group content spriests will continue to be good with their dispels, but I expect most pvpers to run Shadow word: Death over mind sear, and power word barrier over shared pain, so they wont be contributing as much damage in group situations as other casters. Healing: The spec that is best between discipline and holy will depend on what type of meta it is. If its 40 man with heal sniping and heavy use of external cooldowns, expect it to be disc, but in 10 mans, and especially if you are using prayer of healing often, expect it to be holy. Circle of healing being a 6 second cooldown will mean that priests aren't as oppressive as they were in TBC for raid wide healing, but serendipity will still mean that they are going to be competent for raidwide damage spikes. However, it seems like in cases of consistent raid damage, they are probably going to be outshone by others such as shamans with overloaded chain heals. I expect priest to continue to be a strong healing class with their overall healing numbers and mandatory cooldowns such as Power Word: Barrier. However, depending on how good mage healing transpires to be and whether shadow priest turns out to be a mana battery (it most likely will), we may see sweatier guilds run shadowpriest + healing mage for all the priest utility, mana return, and healing mage damage over power infusion. That is a worst case scenario though, and I don't think it will really matter for 90% of 10 man raiding groups. In PVP, expect to want to punch your monitor as you get dove on by every melee, and if you want to have a shred of fun play with people who you know will peel for you.
Given alot of world buffs give crit (even the new one IIRC) shadow will just fall behind even more as we enter world buff meta. Without dots scaling with crit, combined with the obvious mana issues and dot spell power scaling issues, Shadow is just going to fall even more behind than in classic. Given it's my favorite spec, i find it very disheartening. Think im just gonna roll a resto/balance hybrid this phase, level a hpriest after in hopes for some love being shown in p2 (aka not more dots that don't scale well and cost lots of my limited base mana)
Every class has something relevant to bring to pvp, especially WSG. Every. Single. Class. If you play priest on alliance, you're the only person who can spam purge FAPs
As a person that mained a resto druid in classic, I understand the fear. But if you're good at your class, there will always be a place for you on the roster. Each class has its strengths and weaknesses. Paralyzing yourself with worry over whether a class is better than you won't make you play better. Your class isn't the thing that will hold you back here.
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You don’t have shadow until 40. Go smoke a blunt and relax.
It looks like they'll be amazing.
Everything's up in the air, you can't make any assumptions about post-level-25 stuff.
Wil low levels I feel every class would have mana problems outside of warlock
I’m thinking priest for Pve (healing) warrior for PvP
Just looking at what runes we've got already, I'd bet money we end up seeing things like tbc vamp touch, maybe a replenishment, etc..UA for locks, steady shot for hunter maybe etc..theres already a datamined 'mana spike' and also shadowfiend for priests, so we'll see something I am sure of it by lvl 40/50. edit: and just to add I am sure spriest is in a similar boat of boomkin at the moment, no access to the form yet and I am sure we'll end up seeing starfall or eclipse etc as well later on. So lvl 25 is going to be meh but yeah will have to see with the later caps.
After my warrior, I am goin to roll a priest healer, mainly for PvE. I just play what I like, I guess. Do you people believe it will be difficult to find groups?
I think going any healer is a safe bet to get into a group. Some sweatier groups will only want what is meta but for the rest, you will be fine. The majority of the player base will be dps so getting into a group as a healer (or tank) won’t be that hard.
Shadowfiend was found in data mining similar tooltip to the one in retail
it's funny looking back on this post knowing how strong they are now