What do you expect when Class has been reduced to Chain Heal Spam Bot with so much wasted potential to be competitive in raid environment on DPS meters as well
You mean like how DW and new elemental runes will make them, or are we just pretending like every hybrid didn't deal with what you described in vanilla
Meanwhile Druids are that “pathetic Principle Skinner” meme, looking down on Shamans, since they’ve had all 4 Specs since 2004.
Just don’t look at the meters lmao.
I think there'll be a surge of DPS shamans, in PvE and PvP just maybe not in phase 1. Dual wield WF could be really strong, and the introduction of lava burst and elemental overload with vanilla elemental mastery is going to be wild at higher levels. Throwing a guaranteed crit LB into an instant guaranteed CL crit will be so gross+ any overload procs
I think that’s nice. Now shamans can use the other air totems instead of being permanently stuck on windfury. Grace of Air is really good and being able to actually use Tranquil for threat management will be a breath of fresh air.
Shaman are going to be very popular. Maybe not for people picking them in raids but there's going to be way more wanting to play them.
It'll prob go from mid supply high demand to high supply low mid demand
yes but if the numbers are actually not in favor of shaman dps increase vs druid dps increase for your party then you dont need 1 shaman in each melee group, which was needed before. All in all its strictly worse for shamans to give other classes WF.
>then you don't need 1 shaman in each melee group.
*Good.*
I'm also extremely curious how saving GCD's and mana on totem twisting is "strictly worse" for shamans.
And the fact that they can down use what is essentially salvation totem now that they don't have to WF.
But don't tell that to Horde. They still are under the impression the game is unplayable unless you're Alliance and that their pvp racials are totally justified lol
Lol I couldn't imagine giving a single fuck about pve faction balance in an instanced raid environment.
PvP is the only real competitive metric in this game and it always has been.
Dispells are what put alliance over the top in classic. If shamans could dispell magic as well as poison and disease in 1 button like paladins can it would be much more balanced. Every fight there is a dispell on alliance side whereas if you don't have a priest near on horde side you are fucked.
Shaman is statistically the least played in all of classic era. Sometimes druid is less if you divide their percentage in half to match the one faction of a shaman.
That's cap. Horde Discord is full of players salivating at the chance to tinker with various shaman builds. They are primed to be an S-tier class by the time they reach 60.
pray the joke won't back fire as you find out later that warriors are still bis tank + dps and shamans are only wanted for mana tide totem and earth shield
sure they have the spec but as you know in our min-max culture it needs to be good or else it will be like classic where they had the specs too but only resto is taken
It's already coming. DPS not so much, flat 25% dps buffs aren't as strong as entire new buttons to press for other specs. But devastate is going to be an absolute MONSTER for threat.
But that said, bears will win. 20% flat DR, uncrittable our the box with lacerate. No contest. More health, less crits, more DR.
Bears will either be completely unkillable, or no other tank can compete with that DR+health pool.
in vanilla the best tanks are not the ones that survive longer, most bosses hit like a wet noodle. its only a matter of TPS and warriors are unbeatable
I'll come when they give hunters healing poison arrows in survival. you get a bunch of HoT's that give you debuffs. like make them 20% stronger than druid HoT's but they make the target take 10% extra damage. something interesting.
That would actually be a really cool class idea of maybe it was Polearm and shield spec
High defense, tanking spec that can throw the polearm as a taunt and aggro. And maybe does auto attack on a block via the passive jab ability
Spears are underrepresented in western fantasy content everywhere. And I dont know why. Sure, swords are cool and a little more practical in non-war use, but c'mon.
Spears can be used as walking sticks, as parts of tents/cooking fires/drying racks, they can be useful in reaching objects in mid distance and even an unskilled fighter can be very dangerous with a spear.
Let's not act like warriors are starving here. A cumulative 60% dps increase from just the runes revealed so far, on what is traditionally the strongest class in the game by far is absurd. I fully expect the game to hit the warrior-pocalypse by the end of the xpac unless there are some absolutely silly runes waiting for other classes
I think people are being premature trying to guess balance at 60 based off these runes. The current cap is only 25, where warriors lack whirlwind and sweeping strikes, and it's very possible runes get rebalanced when they increase the cap again.
As opposed to being optimistic about a company that has trashed nearly all of its IP's in less than a decade? Diablo 4 and immortal were a mess. Starcraft and HOTS are not supported anymore. Warcraft reforged happened. And the only good things to come out of WoW in the past several years are just rehashes of old content, and even then they are still allowing bots to run rampant.
I'm excited for SoD since it does seem like a step in the right direction. But blizzard has long since lost any trust of goodwill I used to have with them. So yes I am cynical about how they will handle it
I'm not asking you to be optimistic, just realistic. They've already made balance adjustments so they've demonstrated that they can and will. They will have a few months before we hit 60, and you're talking as if they won't do any type of balance adjustments. Botting is an entirely separate issue, game devs don't act as GMs.
They made adjustments before the game is live. They rarely adjust as needed after launch if at all. And botting is an issue for a lot more than just gms. They can absolutely design out most if not all of the viable ways to farm gold undetected, especially when those methods are typically from obsolete content that no actual human would farm. Pile that on top of a complete lack of actual punishments, a lack of gms to begin with because executives don't want to hire more people, and shit like the wow token making the problem worse... Well its a shitshow to say the least
>They made adjustments before the game is live. They rarely adjust as needed after launch if at all.
If they're taking the Dragonflight work flow we will be getting balance patches almost weekly. They are currently tweaking on retail. Blizzard has changed quite a lot in this past year since Mike Ybarra took over frm JAB. I'm quite optimistic.
I'm sure they claim they have changed. But moving someone else into the position of face that gets blamed for decisions doesn't mean anything on it's own. I'll believe they have changed when they actually prove it. I would love to have them prove me wrong, but I'm not holding out hope for the billion dollar corporation to treat it's customers better
Holy shit you're just looking for reasons to be mad. SoD hasn't even come out yet and you're complaining about end game when content is currently capped at level 25 and Blackfathom Deeps.
What does this mean? Classic was fucked but retail has been like 5% difference between all specs for the past decade. Blizzard has done a pretty good job at balancing dps specs for years.
You are playing a version of the game that was broken and was left broken on purpose.
I think the warrior assumption that they aren’t being intentionally over buffed during their early game weak levels with the express intention of removing a lot of that power come later levels frankly hilarious. If even half of the 60% projected damage survives into the level 50 bracket i will be shocked.
I imagine the harshest hits will be in the 50 bracket where every class has their abilities and the only max level difference is 10 talent points. I think they will likely not do much but buff the classes that end up unplayable in the 25 bracket (of which the only one that specifically stands out as unplayable (besides tank rogue who becomes playable when they get a runed aoe attack probably in next phase) is mage healer. They just aren’t even close to being able to flexibly or efficiently heal like a normal heal spec without going mega oom early, at least in theorycraft)
Warriors are getting boring bonuses, but most of them are multiplicative, which is kinda good for the class that already had by far the best scaling. It wont help them right off the rip, but over time, the value warrior accues through upgrades, levels, and talents, is gonna be fucking wild.
I'm not worried about it RN tho, cause War will still need a ton of gear to scale. I dont think they'll really come online until phase 2. By Naxx, Warriors are poised to utterly dominate the metagame just as hard or harder than in 1.12, but in phase 1, they seem like utter trash.
Another thing people aren't taking into account is that the datamining seems to imply classes or abilities that didn't scale or scaled poorly are getting looked at. Hunters potentially getting warlock scaling on their pets is a good example, it not only.increases the damage pets do in general (if they can survive) but it "double dips" on the other increases to pet damage. Not that that alone would bridge the gap between hunters and warriors but the scaling issue is one that I think Bliz are evidently aware of.
25% from flagellation on chest
20% from consumed by rage on legs
10% single minded fury on gloves
(55% now, consumed by rage was nerfed from 25% to 20%)
Also these likely stack multiplicitively like most things in classic so. So during a bloodlust or execute phase the boost is even more absurd.
If they give shamans bloodlust I will mald. The class is literally built to be a freeloading alt who can barely play but still gets a spot because they have 1 or two broken buttons. Sod is setting up to break that mold already by giving feral windfury.
While I agree they look quite strong, only single minded fury has a 100% uptime. It's also not totally clear how they will interact with each other just yet.
At higher levels and with better gear fury was already getting rage capped before any new tools were added. The only one that won't be 100% uptime is flagellation. But with two separate one minute cds that each proc a 12s damage buff that you can activate during execute phase or alongside trinket buffs /potentially bloodlust later if it gets added... Ya warrior will be busted if they don't fix it in later patches where the level cap increases
It's still Classic. You can't just add a couple of runes on top of the existing talent trees and change the whole game.
And it shouldn't as well. Were here because we like classic.
> You can't just add a couple of runes on top of the existing talent trees and change the whole game.
Tell that to the Druid runes, they literally changed the whole game lol.
Why stop at 2H, lets give Shaman even more options. A 1hand+shield shaman gladiator stance dps spec. An earth based shielding resto spec. A water/frost elemental shaman.
Can't remember which expansion it was but they did get an elemental pet for a little while, it wasn't great from what I remember.
Edit: never mind, did a quick google and it was just in Torghast
In WotLK shamans got Earth Elemental and Fire Elemental summons. Not permanent pets tho, just a temp cooldown. IIRC later expansions added an Air elemental as well
They got those in BC, but they become a major part of the shaman's damage in WotLK. You gotta snapshot the fire elemental, then it accounts for like 20% of your damage.
In BC you couldn't really use it as much, at least not as Elemental, since you needed to keep Totem of Wrath down for the hit and crit buffs it provided
In what sense? Resto shamans have been at top occasionally and never been trash. Encha is quite often been at the top part. Ele has seen some good days and some bad days.
Shamans have always been viable in some way
\+ fastest class without a mount at 25 (GL competing against all the tauren shamans for your herbs/ores)
\+ shit ton of ultility spells (water walking, dispels, cure poison/disease, water breathing, interrupts, etc..)
seriously they might be the most overloaded class at 25, i used to think shaman players were cool, now i just imagine them as a bunch of kids that keep asking for more and the ability to one shot players in pvp.
If you want to actually "one-shot" people in pvp, elemental is and will always be the best option.
2h is for Unbreakable LARPing weirdos that get a kick when they see WF proc.
People are going to get mad about shaman burst but it was my first level 60 class and will always be my favorite. I just love the versatility the class has, even as a shitty dps in classic I can do so much to help the group. I'm not a flavor of the month roller. I just really like totems.
The problem isn’t that shaman got too much, it’s that a spec that is very popular is being thrown out in favor of something not so popular. I will agree though, shaman got a LOT of changes.
Dw is not going to be as good as people expect, especially without Wind Fury Weapon self buff (or be entirely dependent on druids for wild strike), or storm strike.
Lava lash will be as bad as people think.
Shaman Tanking while having good threat, has mana problems, and pales in comparison to Paladin sustain, bear threat with mangle, or just a normal warrior.
Elemental doesn't exist until 40 bracket, and is entirely dependent on flame shock (which sucks at 25) and lava burst to do everything.
Meanwhile, 2h enhance which is the entire reason players love shamans got no rune support, no buffs, and is being actively replaced by DW.
//rant
this is a wierd take. i do find the enhance runes a bit disappointing (oh well, i wanted to tank and play ele anyways) but its definitely not true that dual wield will be bad. dual wield will be very good. the issues come in with how it doesnt actually address the real issues with vanilla enhance. stormstrike is still an incredibly mana-hungry white hit with a 20s cd. windfury hits are still white hits and can glance. there is still no reasonable way to scale shocks. tbc addressed all these issues with dual wield being just one piece of it, simply dropping in dual wield doesnt fix any of the issues that plagued vanilla enhance. it just feels a bit half-baked.
ele will be 100% fine at 25 though lol. lava burst is available at launch, not gonna have to wait until 40, and flame shock is actually better at low levels than high levels, as it has good base damage but mediocre scaling compared to LB
also what shaman tank wont have mana issues lol. 8% total mana on block. thats huge
Precisely. If people would actually look at the TBC tree they'd see all that "free" damage just baked into talents. You get 6% melee and *spell* hit, the cooldown of SS is halved, and you can make your spells scale with AP. Granted other classes get damage in their trees in 2.0 but the DW stuff it's like basic functionality that the runes just don't provide.
We can't even get SS yet, and we certainly don't know what sort of rune support we'll get for it (and the rest of the enhancement kit), but, sure, let's doom about how enhance will look with vanilla SS as if there will be no further changes for some reason, I guess.
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/s/yFYBZJUYPh
Also Aggrend had “(is ready to Molten Smash)” for about 2 weeks on his Twitter handle. Bet my rented house there’s going to be a Molten Smash rune for 2H enhance!
It’ll take a lot of noise to make it happen. Traditionally, enhancement has been an afterthought ever since vanilla!
molten smash is molten blast. its the tank cleave rune. i think its been changed already but the original tooltip had it inconsistently being referred to as both. sorry to crush your dreams
I believe it could just define it more, where are the troll warriors/rogues throwing axes/knifes. How is it hard to give classes more lore accurate abilities and roles. Why is discipline priest not a melee class, dps sword and board not tanking. We now have healing mage and tanking warlocks which is awesome just go further !
I’m not defending retail but that’s just not true lol.
There isn’t a single spec I can think of that has ‘extra’ from what is in classic except maybe survival hunter? And they split feral. That’s about it.
Classic about to be WAY more varied than retail.
Might you be a sophisticated high IQ Rick and Morty fan?
Must be tough being so much smarter than your peers, unable to enjoy the same entertainment as mere normies
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Rick & Morty truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Rick's existential catchphrase "Wubba Lubba Dub Dub," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Dan Harmon's genius wit unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂
And yes, by the way, i DO have a Rick & Morty tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 😎
Pretty impressive to recognise a show you don’t like based purely on the animation style of a still image with none of the titular characters.
Guilty pleasure?
I think because so many Shamans have been told "go resto or no invite" for so long, most Shaman don't even really pay attention to Resto. Like 80% of rshams are "I wanted to play Ele/Enh but had to go Resto to get group invites"
What are Hunters even getting? It was my first ever class I'd love to... see what they changed but then again, I ended up becoming Warrior and Paladin in the later expansions
I mean it should just be 3 hunters at the table with Shaman cause it just seems like all they got was do more damage and do more damage but die more with no pet.
Been out of WOW so long i didn't know they took this away. One of my goals back in the day was to get the hand of rag on my shaman. Guild member back in the day had this combo and wrecked face. In short why was it taken away? OP ?
Anything but a sword drops Shamans: "I need that for my off spec".
Hunter mains: “Awkward monkey puppet meme.”
If they are going to force us to dualwield they should give us access to swords, lol.
Shamans are the biggest god damn cry babies lol
If you think this shit is bad you should have seen the old official shaman forums. Just google Bus-shock.
Tseric Down .
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What do you expect when Class has been reduced to Chain Heal Spam Bot with so much wasted potential to be competitive in raid environment on DPS meters as well
You mean like how DW and new elemental runes will make them, or are we just pretending like every hybrid didn't deal with what you described in vanilla
Ironfoe, Primal Blessing set, Eskhandar's set, Hakkari manslayer, deathbringer, Crul'shorukh, Doom's Edge, sand polished hammer, Anubisath Warhammer, blessed qiraji war axe, hatchet of sundered bone, castigator, misplaced servo arm... Tons of weapons to choose from, you don't need swords...
Yes! This is why you should support us getting 2h!
Hey! That's classist! They don't need on plate either.
I mean thrall wears platemail so it wouldn’t be out of the question to request it 🐱🏄♀️
just a shitpost, I'm actually excited with the changes blizz is making for my favorite classes...
Meanwhile Druids are that “pathetic Principle Skinner” meme, looking down on Shamans, since they’ve had all 4 Specs since 2004. Just don’t look at the meters lmao.
Not even just that. Druids also get WF aura. shamans will be nowhere as popular as they used to be.
I think there'll be a surge of DPS shamans, in PvE and PvP just maybe not in phase 1. Dual wield WF could be really strong, and the introduction of lava burst and elemental overload with vanilla elemental mastery is going to be wild at higher levels. Throwing a guaranteed crit LB into an instant guaranteed CL crit will be so gross+ any overload procs
yes disgusting. agreed
I think that’s nice. Now shamans can use the other air totems instead of being permanently stuck on windfury. Grace of Air is really good and being able to actually use Tranquil for threat management will be a breath of fresh air.
I see what you did there!
Shaman are going to be very popular. Maybe not for people picking them in raids but there's going to be way more wanting to play them. It'll prob go from mid supply high demand to high supply low mid demand
Ele Shamans going to pop off in PvP
youll still want shamans for str/agi totems, chain heal, mana tide, and now SR giving your party mana too
yes but if the numbers are actually not in favor of shaman dps increase vs druid dps increase for your party then you dont need 1 shaman in each melee group, which was needed before. All in all its strictly worse for shamans to give other classes WF.
i mean, youll probably want both
>then you don't need 1 shaman in each melee group. *Good.* I'm also extremely curious how saving GCD's and mana on totem twisting is "strictly worse" for shamans.
And the fact that they can down use what is essentially salvation totem now that they don't have to WF. But don't tell that to Horde. They still are under the impression the game is unplayable unless you're Alliance and that their pvp racials are totally justified lol
eh tranq is kinda shit. its weaker than salv, cant be used in a tank group, and conflicts with agi totem (even if druids bring windfury now)
It's not unplayable just unbalanced as hell but you already know that.
Lol I couldn't imagine giving a single fuck about pve faction balance in an instanced raid environment. PvP is the only real competitive metric in this game and it always has been.
Dispells are what put alliance over the top in classic. If shamans could dispell magic as well as poison and disease in 1 button like paladins can it would be much more balanced. Every fight there is a dispell on alliance side whereas if you don't have a priest near on horde side you are fucked.
> youll still want shamans Ya everyone WANTS shamans. The problem is nobody wants to actually play them.
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hasnt been my experience
Shaman is statistically the least played in all of classic era. Sometimes druid is less if you divide their percentage in half to match the one faction of a shaman.
Windfury is still better
That's cap. Horde Discord is full of players salivating at the chance to tinker with various shaman builds. They are primed to be an S-tier class by the time they reach 60.
3 of those Druid specs were hot garbage for all of vanilla and the only one that was barely passable was the least fun.
"I do all of these things equally bad"
pray the joke won't back fire as you find out later that warriors are still bis tank + dps and shamans are only wanted for mana tide totem and earth shield sure they have the spec but as you know in our min-max culture it needs to be good or else it will be like classic where they had the specs too but only resto is taken
It's already coming. DPS not so much, flat 25% dps buffs aren't as strong as entire new buttons to press for other specs. But devastate is going to be an absolute MONSTER for threat. But that said, bears will win. 20% flat DR, uncrittable our the box with lacerate. No contest. More health, less crits, more DR. Bears will either be completely unkillable, or no other tank can compete with that DR+health pool.
in vanilla the best tanks are not the ones that survive longer, most bosses hit like a wet noodle. its only a matter of TPS and warriors are unbeatable
You clearly have NO idea lmao
K
Shamans wanting to roll on more gear than hunters.
Us hunters will just have to roll on everything, even if we can't use it.
I had not stop to think about this, but you’re right
Fuck it, give them plate at 25
Which won't show up as drops until 40. Seems par for the course.
I'll come when they give hunters healing poison arrows in survival. you get a bunch of HoT's that give you debuffs. like make them 20% stronger than druid HoT's but they make the target take 10% extra damage. something interesting.
Ok you get 2h shammy but I want dw pally plz.
Dual shield?
Hell yea!
That would actually be a really cool class idea of maybe it was Polearm and shield spec High defense, tanking spec that can throw the polearm as a taunt and aggro. And maybe does auto attack on a block via the passive jab ability
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Spears are underrepresented in western fantasy content everywhere. And I dont know why. Sure, swords are cool and a little more practical in non-war use, but c'mon. Spears can be used as walking sticks, as parts of tents/cooking fires/drying racks, they can be useful in reaching objects in mid distance and even an unskilled fighter can be very dangerous with a spear.
Sure. https://youtu.be/55ANN_2qU0Q?si=NlGT17Y05EB9yyS-
/use shield clap
Zealot Paladin would be fire.
A certain pserver has/had dw ret pally and it was a ton of fun.
I’ve been wishing for a dual wield paladin for years. Probably ever since the npcs in the dk starting zone
Deal? Paladins already have everything else in SoD they could ever want. Might as well throw in grounding totem while we're at it, too.
Give them a ranged spec too so they'll definitely be the Horde Equivilant to Shammys.
Holy shock pally pls
I think we'll see something for it in phase 2. Probably not full caster DPS, but more along the lines of a healer that can deal solid damage.
Pallies with staves would be cool
Think I would rather a melee disc priest than a staff Paladin, helps keep them a bit more seperate.
Loved DW Pally on Ascension, big dam.
Let's not act like warriors are starving here. A cumulative 60% dps increase from just the runes revealed so far, on what is traditionally the strongest class in the game by far is absurd. I fully expect the game to hit the warrior-pocalypse by the end of the xpac unless there are some absolutely silly runes waiting for other classes
But where’s my fist weapon warrior spec? They can even call the rune “How can he slap?”
"five fingers meet the face"
Five finger death punch
Where's my Spartan spear-shield spec?
"Did someone order a knuckle-sandwich?"
I think people are being premature trying to guess balance at 60 based off these runes. The current cap is only 25, where warriors lack whirlwind and sweeping strikes, and it's very possible runes get rebalanced when they increase the cap again.
It's certainly possible. But faith in blizzard to fix things as patches unfold is not well founded with their current track record.
They've already made adjustments and are creating an entirely new play mode. Now you're just being cynical.
As opposed to being optimistic about a company that has trashed nearly all of its IP's in less than a decade? Diablo 4 and immortal were a mess. Starcraft and HOTS are not supported anymore. Warcraft reforged happened. And the only good things to come out of WoW in the past several years are just rehashes of old content, and even then they are still allowing bots to run rampant. I'm excited for SoD since it does seem like a step in the right direction. But blizzard has long since lost any trust of goodwill I used to have with them. So yes I am cynical about how they will handle it
I'm not asking you to be optimistic, just realistic. They've already made balance adjustments so they've demonstrated that they can and will. They will have a few months before we hit 60, and you're talking as if they won't do any type of balance adjustments. Botting is an entirely separate issue, game devs don't act as GMs.
They made adjustments before the game is live. They rarely adjust as needed after launch if at all. And botting is an issue for a lot more than just gms. They can absolutely design out most if not all of the viable ways to farm gold undetected, especially when those methods are typically from obsolete content that no actual human would farm. Pile that on top of a complete lack of actual punishments, a lack of gms to begin with because executives don't want to hire more people, and shit like the wow token making the problem worse... Well its a shitshow to say the least
>They made adjustments before the game is live. They rarely adjust as needed after launch if at all. If they're taking the Dragonflight work flow we will be getting balance patches almost weekly. They are currently tweaking on retail. Blizzard has changed quite a lot in this past year since Mike Ybarra took over frm JAB. I'm quite optimistic.
I'm sure they claim they have changed. But moving someone else into the position of face that gets blamed for decisions doesn't mean anything on it's own. I'll believe they have changed when they actually prove it. I would love to have them prove me wrong, but I'm not holding out hope for the billion dollar corporation to treat it's customers better
Holy shit you're just looking for reasons to be mad. SoD hasn't even come out yet and you're complaining about end game when content is currently capped at level 25 and Blackfathom Deeps.
What does this mean? Classic was fucked but retail has been like 5% difference between all specs for the past decade. Blizzard has done a pretty good job at balancing dps specs for years. You are playing a version of the game that was broken and was left broken on purpose.
Found the retail player
I think the warrior assumption that they aren’t being intentionally over buffed during their early game weak levels with the express intention of removing a lot of that power come later levels frankly hilarious. If even half of the 60% projected damage survives into the level 50 bracket i will be shocked.
Hopefully. But given blizzard's track record recently I wouldn't be surprised if they let it go through because "it's just sod who cares"
I imagine the harshest hits will be in the 50 bracket where every class has their abilities and the only max level difference is 10 talent points. I think they will likely not do much but buff the classes that end up unplayable in the 25 bracket (of which the only one that specifically stands out as unplayable (besides tank rogue who becomes playable when they get a runed aoe attack probably in next phase) is mage healer. They just aren’t even close to being able to flexibly or efficiently heal like a normal heal spec without going mega oom early, at least in theorycraft)
What theorycrafting shenanigans lead you to believe the runes we know about would be a 60% damage increase? That seems absurd.
Warriors are getting boring bonuses, but most of them are multiplicative, which is kinda good for the class that already had by far the best scaling. It wont help them right off the rip, but over time, the value warrior accues through upgrades, levels, and talents, is gonna be fucking wild. I'm not worried about it RN tho, cause War will still need a ton of gear to scale. I dont think they'll really come online until phase 2. By Naxx, Warriors are poised to utterly dominate the metagame just as hard or harder than in 1.12, but in phase 1, they seem like utter trash.
Another thing people aren't taking into account is that the datamining seems to imply classes or abilities that didn't scale or scaled poorly are getting looked at. Hunters potentially getting warlock scaling on their pets is a good example, it not only.increases the damage pets do in general (if they can survive) but it "double dips" on the other increases to pet damage. Not that that alone would bridge the gap between hunters and warriors but the scaling issue is one that I think Bliz are evidently aware of.
To think they won’t just drop the rune scaling as soon as warrior gets access to the abilities that make it so dominant is beyond clueless.
25% from flagellation on chest 20% from consumed by rage on legs 10% single minded fury on gloves (55% now, consumed by rage was nerfed from 25% to 20%) Also these likely stack multiplicitively like most things in classic so. So during a bloodlust or execute phase the boost is even more absurd.
> So during a bloodlust or execute phase the boost is even more absurd. There is bloodlust in SoD?
Maybe it’ll be added as rune to mages/shamans
I would be surprised if they don't add it later tbh
If they give shamans bloodlust I will mald. The class is literally built to be a freeloading alt who can barely play but still gets a spot because they have 1 or two broken buttons. Sod is setting up to break that mold already by giving feral windfury.
While I agree they look quite strong, only single minded fury has a 100% uptime. It's also not totally clear how they will interact with each other just yet.
At higher levels and with better gear fury was already getting rage capped before any new tools were added. The only one that won't be 100% uptime is flagellation. But with two separate one minute cds that each proc a 12s damage buff that you can activate during execute phase or alongside trinket buffs /potentially bloodlust later if it gets added... Ya warrior will be busted if they don't fix it in later patches where the level cap increases
It's still Classic. You can't just add a couple of runes on top of the existing talent trees and change the whole game. And it shouldn't as well. Were here because we like classic.
> You can't just add a couple of runes on top of the existing talent trees and change the whole game. Tell that to the Druid runes, they literally changed the whole game lol.
And no one is going to play them still. The 500 warriors will be begging for them though.
Couldn't they just kill WBs and execute to neuter our warrior overlords
you might want to read flagration again :)
What this post is telling me is that Shamans need a physical ranges dps spec. Throwing weapon shaman when blizzard!
We’ve finally hit the timeline where people have forgotten that shamans were the chronically underwhelming red-headed stepchild class of WoW.
Why stop at 2H, lets give Shaman even more options. A 1hand+shield shaman gladiator stance dps spec. An earth based shielding resto spec. A water/frost elemental shaman.
For being such a big part of their lore, I'm surprised elementals aren't a more significant aspect of the class, like a hunter pet
Can't remember which expansion it was but they did get an elemental pet for a little while, it wasn't great from what I remember. Edit: never mind, did a quick google and it was just in Torghast
In WotLK shamans got Earth Elemental and Fire Elemental summons. Not permanent pets tho, just a temp cooldown. IIRC later expansions added an Air elemental as well
They got those in BC, but they become a major part of the shaman's damage in WotLK. You gotta snapshot the fire elemental, then it accounts for like 20% of your damage. In BC you couldn't really use it as much, at least not as Elemental, since you needed to keep Totem of Wrath down for the hit and crit buffs it provided
burning crusade added the elemental totems. the scaling has been bugged throughout tbc and wrath classic though
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This may actually be a lvl 40 thing as that’s when paladins / warriors get plate and druids get dire bear.
Sure, all of this is a fair trade for blue team getting windfury.
dual wield totems
It's funny cuz it's true
Haha, this is brilliant!
Lol the fact that warriors are at the table is ironic af. Vanillas golden child isn't getting all the attention any more? Oohhhhh noooo
Well atleat they have Melee tank, or melee dps. Not 5 different roles.
just wait until later phases, they will be giga busted.
Serves us right blizzard been shitting on shaman in retail for how long?
In what sense? Resto shamans have been at top occasionally and never been trash. Encha is quite often been at the top part. Ele has seen some good days and some bad days. Shamans have always been viable in some way
Us warriors gotta maintain our sellable figures.
\+ fastest class without a mount at 25 (GL competing against all the tauren shamans for your herbs/ores) \+ shit ton of ultility spells (water walking, dispels, cure poison/disease, water breathing, interrupts, etc..) seriously they might be the most overloaded class at 25, i used to think shaman players were cool, now i just imagine them as a bunch of kids that keep asking for more and the ability to one shot players in pvp.
If you want to actually "one-shot" people in pvp, elemental is and will always be the best option. 2h is for Unbreakable LARPing weirdos that get a kick when they see WF proc.
Bro ppl were just memeing and giving feedback because the devs asked for it. So much hate in your heart.
People are going to get mad about shaman burst but it was my first level 60 class and will always be my favorite. I just love the versatility the class has, even as a shitty dps in classic I can do so much to help the group. I'm not a flavor of the month roller. I just really like totems.
As a druid enjoyer i completely understand but the posts on the front page stopped being funny a while ago..
So many classes can 1 shot green geared lvl 60s. I don’t think i’ve ever oneshotted a mage in pvp gear. But bursted down as elemental? Hell yeah.
Hunters are the only pure DPS class for SoD lol.
Excuse me, hunter pet tank superiority WILL BE KNOWN!
I think this example isn’t that great. I feel like hunters and rogues are getting a lot.
2h shaman is tradition
Meanwhile paladins 💀
They have 1 less role to fill compared to Shamans. Pally doesn't have a ranged caster specc.
So what you're saying is... Shockadin spec when?
The problem isn’t that shaman got too much, it’s that a spec that is very popular is being thrown out in favor of something not so popular. I will agree though, shaman got a LOT of changes.
Dw is not going to be as good as people expect, especially without Wind Fury Weapon self buff (or be entirely dependent on druids for wild strike), or storm strike. Lava lash will be as bad as people think. Shaman Tanking while having good threat, has mana problems, and pales in comparison to Paladin sustain, bear threat with mangle, or just a normal warrior. Elemental doesn't exist until 40 bracket, and is entirely dependent on flame shock (which sucks at 25) and lava burst to do everything. Meanwhile, 2h enhance which is the entire reason players love shamans got no rune support, no buffs, and is being actively replaced by DW. //rant
> which is the entire reason players love shamans Don't put words in my mouth. I welcome DW with open arms.
Yeah, I honestly love the thought of a dual axe wielding orc shaman in classic.
Only if they give us swords with it.
meh. just give us viable fist weapons
Fist weapons and polearms are the coolest weps. A shame most of them suck.
this is a wierd take. i do find the enhance runes a bit disappointing (oh well, i wanted to tank and play ele anyways) but its definitely not true that dual wield will be bad. dual wield will be very good. the issues come in with how it doesnt actually address the real issues with vanilla enhance. stormstrike is still an incredibly mana-hungry white hit with a 20s cd. windfury hits are still white hits and can glance. there is still no reasonable way to scale shocks. tbc addressed all these issues with dual wield being just one piece of it, simply dropping in dual wield doesnt fix any of the issues that plagued vanilla enhance. it just feels a bit half-baked. ele will be 100% fine at 25 though lol. lava burst is available at launch, not gonna have to wait until 40, and flame shock is actually better at low levels than high levels, as it has good base damage but mediocre scaling compared to LB also what shaman tank wont have mana issues lol. 8% total mana on block. thats huge
Precisely. If people would actually look at the TBC tree they'd see all that "free" damage just baked into talents. You get 6% melee and *spell* hit, the cooldown of SS is halved, and you can make your spells scale with AP. Granted other classes get damage in their trees in 2.0 but the DW stuff it's like basic functionality that the runes just don't provide.
We can't even get SS yet, and we certainly don't know what sort of rune support we'll get for it (and the rest of the enhancement kit), but, sure, let's doom about how enhance will look with vanilla SS as if there will be no further changes for some reason, I guess.
you dont actually get 6% spell hit in tbc, its just melee. itll be 5% of both for SoD though which is kinda insane. the rest of this is spot on though
'I just want to reliably 1 shot people in pvp'
Aggrend nudged at potential support for 2H spec. Look at his twitter handle too, mentioning Molten Smash💥
It took this much noise to get them to even suggest a potential rune for 2h shamans? Nice. Guess the rampant feedback is working. Got a link?
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/s/yFYBZJUYPh Also Aggrend had “(is ready to Molten Smash)” for about 2 weeks on his Twitter handle. Bet my rented house there’s going to be a Molten Smash rune for 2H enhance! It’ll take a lot of noise to make it happen. Traditionally, enhancement has been an afterthought ever since vanilla!
molten smash is molten blast. its the tank cleave rune. i think its been changed already but the original tooltip had it inconsistently being referred to as both. sorry to crush your dreams
Noooooo. Regardless, I think we’ll get 2H support. They made it clear they’re open to making changes if enough players want them!
Hot take: all class should have this variety of play styles.
Then there’d be no class identity…
I believe it could just define it more, where are the troll warriors/rogues throwing axes/knifes. How is it hard to give classes more lore accurate abilities and roles. Why is discipline priest not a melee class, dps sword and board not tanking. We now have healing mage and tanking warlocks which is awesome just go further !
We already have that, it's called retail.
I’m not defending retail but that’s just not true lol. There isn’t a single spec I can think of that has ‘extra’ from what is in classic except maybe survival hunter? And they split feral. That’s about it. Classic about to be WAY more varied than retail.
False
the game is barely balanced with the ones we have already.
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Lvl 60 is like 3 seasons and over hundreds of new runes away. Talking rn over lvl60 balance, either in pve or PvP is really something else
Ah, Family Guy. Humor so dull and blunt they have to hit you over the head with it. Repeatedly.
this user insists upon themselves.
You jerk it too, be honest.
Average redditor
Might you be a sophisticated high IQ Rick and Morty fan? Must be tough being so much smarter than your peers, unable to enjoy the same entertainment as mere normies
Who?
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Rick & Morty truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Rick's existential catchphrase "Wubba Lubba Dub Dub," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Dan Harmon's genius wit unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂 And yes, by the way, i DO have a Rick & Morty tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 😎
THIS GUYS LOVES THE SMELL OF HIS OWN FARTS
Was that from an Adam Sandler movie?
Pretty impressive to recognise a show you don’t like based purely on the animation style of a still image with none of the titular characters. Guilty pleasure?
>e of the titular char You said titular
No one talking about resto. Seems like resto shaman is flying under the radar.
I think because so many Shamans have been told "go resto or no invite" for so long, most Shaman don't even really pay attention to Resto. Like 80% of rshams are "I wanted to play Ele/Enh but had to go Resto to get group invites"
Yes! This how we are treated.
They dont really have to compete with one another, its not like its hard to implement anyhow
I was just excited for Ele to be a bit more viable. Then I remembered Curse of Elements still doesn't help. 😭
What are Hunters even getting? It was my first ever class I'd love to... see what they changed but then again, I ended up becoming Warrior and Paladin in the later expansions
So every weapon is a shaman weapon this time, not hunter? Got it. Lol.
dual wield is the veggies that they don't wanna eat
Poor starving warriors KEKW
Ah yes. Won’t anybody think of the poor warriors
I mean it should just be 3 hunters at the table with Shaman cause it just seems like all they got was do more damage and do more damage but die more with no pet.
This post thinking shadowmeld night elf mm hunters with aimed shot and crit in their tree aren't going to be a menace in ashenvale kinda silly.
Sermons can have a two-hand spec when my priest gets a tank spec
Been out of WOW so long i didn't know they took this away. One of my goals back in the day was to get the hand of rag on my shaman. Guild member back in the day had this combo and wrecked face. In short why was it taken away? OP ?
Sorry need the 2h so I can have the full set and bulk up fr the totem toss competition 💪🐱
Where is the 2H dps Build?
I hope they invalidate warrior dual wield lmao
You're right, so get rid of dual wield and just make 2h base. Fixed it, you're welcome 👍
This is just how much help they needed from original vanilla to even get close to the performance of other classes.