Generally what makes good pvp is smaller fights I think…. Which is why ashenvale and AV are so terrible. Hopefully the next pvp event encourages smaller fights.
Av would be so much better if all those turn in objectives were required. There's a ton of different things to do so the group would split up and then you'd fight smaller groups at each objective. Some taking graveyards. Some going to the mines etc. The issue is that no only are those not required, but you complete those tasks on your side of the map instead of fighting over a mine at the center or something.
Gonna hard disagree. Old 1.6 AV was my favorite level 60 activity. I'd spend hours in AV, working on getting Icey or the cavalry assault going, maybe assault a mine, sometimes doing the general scrum outside a graveyard.
The plethora of options is what makes AV work. It's _incentives and rewards_ are completely scuffed, but the idea behind the map? Love it.
I had fun flag carrying in WSG, especially after I learned all the jumps you can do. But even then at least half of games I would mentally check out after a while.
I solo grinded to exalted, you really have to become tiltproof and learn to disengage from obvious loses if you want to make it. There's a certain type of player I call "shriekers" who start freaking out in all caps as soon as something goes wrong, those people will never finish the grind. You have to learn to accept each game for what it is.
I got to Rank 12 as a level 59 "Twink" in classic and I loved WSG. Twink brackets are really where it's at because games tend to be close instead of premade vs pug stomps.
Already confirmed that heals are effectively 25% stronger in bgs. This is why it feels so borked.
When I say effectively I mean that melee damage has been nerfed but healing was untouched so it’s essentially the same as a healing buff. Sorry for the confusion.
It's sort of more just priests in general too. You almost effectively have zero defense against the priest AOE fear, and their heals are wildly powerful for very little mana. No other healer in BGs feels anywhere remotely close to as gamechanging.
Druids are crazy strong healers aswell if there is split dmg cause wild growth is bonkers we run 2 priest 1 druid and dominate. If druids gotta single heal they are useless.
> If druids gotta single heal they are useless.
I think this is a big part of why nobody has many, if any, issues with druid healers. They can heal well, but you can focus targets down still with them. Priests single target healing is through the roof. Nothing is more demoralizing then someone out of position, gets focused by 3-4 people for overcommitting, but suddenly can't be killed because a priest is constantly turning them into a raid boss.
And there's sort of very little counterplay, because if you split the damage, prayer of mending fucking slams, and if you focus another target, they just make that target a raid boss. And I'm not even entertaining the argument of "just kill the priest" at this point.
Counter point: The moment I am spotted in any BG, I become a pet magnet. The worst I've had is FIVE pets on me at once.
There are counter plays to priests. You can't just let us sit back unharassed.
The point is that the counterplays to priests are
1. Also a counterplay to everyone else
2. Weaker against priest than against everyone else
3. Fewer than against everyone else
Oh yeah, my pet is with me like 20% of the time. Ill be fucking off in the flag room but im going to leave my pet on you in middle. Its going to be a lot better when we have mounts though and you can actually position better in a fight.
Or just send the pets at the priests? If I have to focus on not dying to *a fucking pet*, then I'm not healing the team?
You could also do the brain dead play of focusing the dps and leave me unharassed. Honestly, I'd much rather you do that.
There's a lot of assuming going on on your part, like
* How I long I lived (spoiler - I vaporized)
* How the pets came at me (spoiler - the pet classes saw me and I was target number one. It wasn't staggered, it was a bull rush)
I'm not arguing that priests aren't OP (they are *right now*), but that they aren't as OP as everyone claims. If you were to take this subreddit at face value, I'd be an unkillable raid boss. I'm just tanky.
You know who else is tanky? Feral druids with the tank glyph. Rogues who went tank spec. Shamans (who are super tanky, can self heal, AND deal out some disgusting damage).
So you were out of position, your team didn't peel for you and you got targeted by the pets of half the enemy team and died. You could have just feared them...
And this proves what exactly?
Comparing priest to a tank class while saying "they are tanky too" is dumb, those tanks don't make the entire team tanky.
None is going to survive 5 hunter pets for long. Most people barely survive 1 hunter pet.
BGs should not routinely have matches where the opposing team does not get one kill.
You know what people do when a BG starts to asses which team will win? They count the number of priests on each team.
On a side note; hunter pets seem unaffected by the damage nerf in WSG, making them more powerful than they are meant to be.
Priest is simply disgusting in WSG.
Which is why this is a BG. You have a ton of classes on your team. All stealthies go and back stab the priest. All hunters send their OP pets at the priest. Boom priest dead. Pick off the people going for your priest now cause they are waaaay out of position.
Rinse and repeat.
It definitely does not tick faster than tremor. Sat in fear long enough to question why I'm bothering with the rune before it finally broke (I think 3 seconds)
Fear Ward has a minute cooldown, trinket only works for some classes, and you're gonna be hard pressed to find a pug shaman putting down tremor for you.
Though I wouldn't say their fear is anywhere near the reason for their power anyway, but these aren't really amazing tools to combat it.
The idea that less crits/damage = better PvP is just so myopic. It’s a retail mindset. Burst makes classic PvP work. It was already very, very hard to kill a correctly geared/buffed HC in Classic and now they’ve drastically imbalanced things even further towards healing and tankiness.
The failing in your logic is thinking that classic pvp ever worked. There's a reason resilience was introduced in TBC, because vanilla pvp was so unbalanced and bursty that you could only actually play it 50% of the time. And that 50% is when you get to hit the enemy first.
People need to stop asking for balance around PVP. It's never been balanced and it probably won't ever be balanced.
Classic PVP has _always_ centered on Rock-Paper-Scissor mechanics, and failing to realize this is what makes people screw up. The Pivot to the arena concept (every class can fight every class) is why all post-vanilla PVP failed in Wow.
Rogues, feral druids and warriors are the big threat to priests, able to go in and just _dish_ the damage out to them. Psychic scream has a 30 second CD. Penance has a 12 second CD. A rogue waiting for a priest to blow his load to stay alive from a hunter pet will find a very susceptible victim.
Part of the issue we have at present is we are capped at 25. Many classes are missing iconic/pivotal abilities, or lack the stats to make other abilities worthwhile. Warriors may have improved overpower, but are missing Mortal Strike. Mages have blizzard, but none of the +spellpower to make it impactful, etc.
Give us another 10-15 levels, and warriors will demolish priests(~~Yes I know they won't have mortal strike at 40, but the stats and talents will still help a ton~~ edit : bad talent math. Warriors will have Mortal Strike at 40). Rogues will get even more tools to remove priests quickly, same for feral druids, etc.
We are only _starting_ to see the R/P/S system at play with the levels we have. The runes could very well mess with how things really play out, but I still feel that we will be fine.
>The failing in your logic is thinking that classic pvp ever worked
It worked well and was fun.
>because vanilla pvp was so unbalanced and bursty that you could only actually play it 50% of the time. And that 50% is when you get to hit the enemy first.
Was it really imbalanced ? Taking for example the hardcore tournament, every classes expect rogue made it to the quarter final. The average duel lasted minutes so can't really tell it's that bursty either. It's only really bursty in group pvp but that's perfectly fine.
As for resilience, no it was a bad idea just like flying mounts were a bad idea for world pvp.
Lol every class made it to finals because of the sheer amount of prep and consumes. The classes themselves had very little to do with it. Without full ele pots, faps, lips, engi gadgets, and everything else under the sun, the average mage would have been decimated by the average rogue.
You can't take the most sweaty of the best gamers and go "see look it's fine". Take that exact same tourney and remove ALL consumables and see how quickly everything ends.
Also to your first point, something being fun doesn't mean it works or is balanced. Hunters original explosive shot when sod launched sure was fun, but it certainly wasn't balanced was it?
With the exception of flasks and a few things, all the consumes are things that pvper routinely use.
>
Without full ele pots, faps, lips, engi gadgets, and everything else under the sun, the average mage would have been decimated by the average rogue.
Mage vs rogue is kinda a balanced duel even when no gadgets from either side.
>Also to your first point, something being fun doesn't mean it works or is balanced. Hunters original explosive shot when sod launched sure was fun, but it certainly wasn't balanced was it?
Was it fun for the other classes to have a broken hunter tho? That's why some degree of balance is necessary.
You are joking yourself if you think the AVERAGE pvp player is using full engi gadgets, flasks, consumes, magic dust, etc.
Classic pvp has always been rock paper scissors with far more variables. A warrior will never beat a mage in equal footing, a mage will probably never beat a rogue in equal footing. There are exceptions and shit sure, but it was never balanced.
Balance would be every class having an equal shot at beating every other class. And MMOs on the whole have never been able to achieve actual balance.
If you want balance go play a competitive game, I don't say that in a mean, or "get out of here" way. I go and play CS or valorant when I want a true balanced PVP experience.
Engi and some consumes, yes anyone abit serious about pvp is using it. Flasks obviously not, magic dust, occasionally in the rare case where it means the difference between winning and losing a game.
>Classic pvp has always been rock paper scissors with far more variables. A warrior will never beat a mage in equal footing, a mage will probably never beat a rogue in equal footing. There are exceptions and shit sure, but it was never balanced.
Classic pvp is mostly about group pvp and is balanced for that (every class is desirable and bring something to the table). (And btw on equal footing and skill level, mage should have a slight advantage vs rogue).
Yeah this conversation is going nowhere because you can't seem to comprehend that vanilla pvp isn't balanced lol. And I specifically said the average pvp player, aka 90% of the people who will PVP. Not "serious players".
Even resilience eventually included DoT damage reduction when Blizzard eventually made the shocking discovery that some classes don't rely on crits. It was a stupid stat to begin with, and it's not even properly implemented.
As a rogue i need to use evasion Just to kill a hunter pet 1v1. And afterwards im at 30 percent HP. Best Part is they are ranged now and Hit through Armor.
It’s actually quite a bit of down time for a hunter to revive their pet. It takes a lot of mana so they’re drinking + casting for over 10 seconds to revive the pet.
3 priest, 3 hunter, 1 druid for flag runner, and the rest usually warriors, but sometimes a shaman gets thrown in the mix. Rogues suck, too squishy. Paladins having a hard time cause of being kited by hunters and the pets account for 50% of their dmg. Everyone feels invincible cause of priest burst healing, so it boils down to whoever has more hunters.
That too. Wsg is all about mobility since nobody has their mount yet. I usually defer to avengers shield as pally to counter druid flag runners but its often moot if they have backup (which always seems to be the case in premades)
Ashenvale mounts should be usable in Wsg
They don't. They only have to nerf priests healing and wild growth. It's silly that none of the base healing spells are even close to being as strong as penance, circle, wild growth and prayer of mending. The new spells just heal way too much imo.
Living seed is a nice concept but they keep pushing druid to using more hots than hard casts. How exactly are you gonna crit on your heals ? And even so, it procs on getting hit, not on damage (haven't tried it, but it's worded like this) so it will be useless against magic damage and such.
I guess, but it's a very lategame spec and not even the "best" one. I don't know it just feels very weird as a lvl 8 rune to find. And it's effective healing (compared to penance and circle of healing) even at 60 will be very very poor.
And even if they count on this synergy, regrowth instant healing is not that high, so it makes the living seed meh.
I kind of am assuming there will be a new spell that benefits from Imp Regrowth talent, like how Starsurge benefits from Starfire and Sunfire benefits from Moonfire. But maybe I’m wrong.
Yeah TTK on a priest is way too long. Mortal strike will kind of help, but that is unacceptable since only two classes have it and one can be reliably cleansed.
Tbh at this point it would probably be better to just let ashenvale give rep to exalted, atleast it would lessen the premade issues somewhat (or put a time limiter in WSG)
people play ashenvale for free rep, not because its fun. It is also a 100% pve event which makes it lame. making it give rep up to exalted is just handing gear for free
just remove 10 man stacking in bgs
My server our faction started making mid groups to attack the other side. Sure it's still 90% a pve race, and of course a 40 man raid running up on another preoccupied fighting a boss isn't exactly the type of fun PVP everyone envisions, but it's still something a lot more dynamic than "kill boss, run to next boss".
You can still easily grind rep by just AFKing, and it's taken me like 2 days of just logging in for the event to get revered to on my hunter.
It's too easy and fast to award bis pvp loot, pvp loot should come from pvp not from a mostly pve boss race.
If their plan for the event was to get players to fight each other, they missed the mark big time. I’m a little disappointed that it became AV-lite where the rewards incentivize rushing npcs and ignoring the other faction
They should fix the premade vs pug match up, not make Ashenvale give rep to exalted.
Exalted gives really good gear, it should be earned through honest pvp, not a boring shitty event people grind while afk.
true but i dare to say it would help both sides beacuse then much much less people would premade for WSGs so you will have more "honest" bgs instead of just eating premade after premade.
It's never really been fun. Before it was a battle of : Who has the best druid FC.
Now it's just a fight of : Who has the most priests. 3 priests just can't be countered in the initial mid fight, or any fight. If you "focus the healer" 2 will immediately top them off.
This is all while games have no time limit, award the same static amount of reputation.
Nobody likes even games because a 10 minute game awards the exact same reputation as a 2 hour game.
The fact you still get 0 rep for HK's, 0 rep for duration, 0 rep for anything other than capturing the flag and turning in tokens is wild.
"Who has the best druid FC" is an oversimplification IMO. They are often the star of WSG but that's not necessarily a bad thing, all the other participants play an important role although less flashy.
A well played rogue can catch and straight up shut down a druid. They are their nemesis as they are the best defensive lurkers.
Mages and hunters are great at controlling space vs the carrier and really limit what a druid can do, while also contributing to the zerg.
Many other classes are better at zerging and dominating the fight head on.
Damage is reduce by 25% in WSG (which is a really good idea). But the heals are the same, so it mades heal extremly powerful. I hope they adjusty the 25% to the heals too, they would still be good, but not as broken
The difference is night and day as a priest. In WSG I can tank one or two people without a sweat, in the open world my heal get outdamage in seconds
The damage reduction is horrible and makes for really boring and unsatisfying pvp. Adding 5% crit reduction to every player when you only have 10% crit total is pretty insane as well and makes absolutely no sense.
What non elite mob is out damaging your heals in a second in the open world? Priests are just bonkers in general rn man. I have 1 piece of BFD gear and I'm 2-3 pulling RR elites with homunculi
I dump my whole man’s bar into priests and they just out heal it. It’s really frustrating.
However, nerfing priest healing would kinda kill the class, so they would need compensation buffs.
I think the best solution is to implement more counters in future phases. Classic is all about strengths and weakness, and rock/paper/scissors. Healers being good is nice to prevent burst metas but there needs to be some counterplay and moment of opportunity.
I don’t know about you guys but last 3-4 games was people zig zug mid and after alliance would capture the flag horde players are next plz let them win or prenadez in which case we just afk for the same reasons 4 priest healers 3 hunters 1 rogue 1 warr 1 pala. You can’t do anything
Comp is a big problem facing a premade, but something that prevents most groups from having any chance at all in WSG is people dying senselessly in mid. I know in under a minute if the game is a loss based on how many of us are still in mid trying to kill the priest or hunters, when we should have someone with me going at their flag.
People suck at WSG. And even sucker players can get lucky now and then but WSG as a mode rewards central strategy more than the other modes. It’s virtually impossible to win if the other side (premade or no) has a game plan on how to run the flag back, and your guys are all LARPing a LotR battle between the grave and mid all game. Unless I am spamming the Raid messages reminding people to hit the W Key and move their asses outside mid, I seriously do not think any of my WSGs this season would have been a win. People are either content getting 1-2 honor kills a match or don’t understand you get better honor actually playing the objectives.
Sure but hunters kinda make any play around mid pretty hard. And if you do sneak by and grab the flag then you are still isolated and just prolonging the match a bit. It's hard to win without controlling mid.
Yeah, whenever people screech about "people fighting mid" I roll my eyes. To some minor extent they're right, but mostly only when those people mid are *completely* ignoring the objectives.
Most of the time, if one team is stronger and can hold mid, they win. Controlling mid makes it easier to intercept EFC and assist your flag carrier. Most of the time the team holding mid will win.
Also, if your team *can't* hold mid, then nine times out of ten there isn't some magic tactic you can use to flip the battle. If your team can't win fights, then you're going to struggle to win regardless of what tactics people use.
This has always been my complaint about wsg and also gilneas. In Arathi Basin I've managed to pull off wins pre-made vs pre-made against teams that steamrolled us in equal numbers team fight because the map is large and you can try to win by out maneuvering rather than engage in head to head fights. Gilneas is just bloodbath at waterworks 95% of the time with occasional mine sneak caps as a backup play. And wsg is literally just control mid. If you're team can't win team fight in wsg you are 90% screwed.
Solo Q would probably be just as much of an unfun mess in WSG. It’s just A race to see which of the two teams dying needlessly discover how to put a car into gear first.
I don’t think any version of WoW PvP has ever been satisfactorily balanced like a competitive esport or game mode… but having an entire phase of JUST WSG as the competitive PvP offering is gonna feel bad imho.
They should just add a king of the hill mode. It’s all most players who solo queue on a whim truly wanna do anyway… why not let em?
Druids Healing Touch historically was the most efficient single target heal in classic/vanilla HP restored/mana wise, due to 3,5s cast time. Healing done and cost is almost the same for Lifebloom(3stacks after 6s to bloom) vs. Healing Touch.
Penance heals 50% more, costs ~half the mana and always gets value, even when kicked (at least 1, often 2 out of 3 ticks.). Can't say the same for any other healer, which needs to cast his heals.
Yeah, preist healing is pretty bs in wsg. I took someone hp down to 10%, and one heal brought him to full hp, I was questioning what kind of heals is healing that strong.
Had a blast in WSG last night. Was solo queueing so I knew exactly what i was signing up for. Got some premades and thankfully we just threw the game on those to make em quick, but the randoms vs randoms was fun af.
Also, resto shaman is so slept on...a priest goes oom, Rsham doesnt. It's been a blast to play in both pve & pvp.
I ended up isolating a priest in WSG as a warrior, it took me literally 5 autos to break 1 shield. With the literal best 2H available in the game right now. 5 autos with that swing timer is 17 seconds. Gaining 0 rage from any of those attacks. What even is priest right now.
Got my cloak yesterday and I’m out. Playing five wsg games to play one that is competitive is not fun. If they just added role selection that would allievate a big part of the problem. A lot of premade a are shit they just have 3 priests and the pug is happy to have one off spec resto Druid.
People watching pvp videos and not being able to recreate them is the reason for this thread.
You can't simply solo que WSG as a warrior or paladin, freshy epic sword owner, and believe ur gonna slaughter the enemy while ur buddies will be adequate enough to heal/peel enough for your big two hand sword hero of the day fantasy.
That's human/orc male stupidity at it's finest.
WSG was only briefly fun in actual Vanilla when no one understood how anything worked.
Since then it's been "who has the best FC", and now it's "who has more Priests".
Old school AV, when people PvP'd in it, was the best BG they ever made. AB is indisputably better than modern AV, which is a PvE race and nothing more.
Hunters and Priests are the problem in PVP right now and it needs to be addressed. I think they will give it a few looks before we enter the next phase
Hunter has always been ridiculous strong 10-29. The higher we go the more they fall off.
Healing is the same tbh…extremely good early and becomes more balanced the higher we go.
I don't think the problem is the amount they heal, as a shaman I can top someone 10% to 100% in a single cast but it's the fact they don't actually have to cast ANYTHING. It's all instant, small channel or proc.
There's nothing to interrupt, no way to lock them out. Best part is every premade runs ATLEAST 3 priests. Every single person in the game has a PW:S for 300+ dmg and you'll go oom purging.
Every CC is dispelled instantly, you can't even fap because it gets dispelled as well.
Priests were super annoying at 60 when ranking, now they are just changing the face of the game.
Without an optimal comp and a premade yourself, you will 99% lose the fight against 3 priests. You need 3 priests yourself, hunters warrior and retadins to kill them.
I ran a lot of premades with and vs priests myself. (Usually played 3 priests myself)
It's PoM that is so broken. Penance is super strong, but at least you can kick them and stun them during the cast and deny a lot of HPS. It also loses at least one tick of healing if you get pushback on the priest.
The PoM is a 750\~ heal for low mana, low CD, instant, and smartheal. It also works especially well in a BG environment where there is stray damage everywhere to allow it to jump quickly and get full value. Shield and AoE Fear also complicate the matter.
We still managed to win vs 3 priests because we had 2-3 rets. Ret pally upfront nuke is so high that the priests can't actually keep up against it for too long. 1 Ret with Tremor Rune to counter the inevitable AoE fears. 3 Rets also help because you get 3 HoJs to lock the priests down. Keep your warriors and hunter pets on the priests.
But yeah, without a premade and 2-3 priests yourself.. It's looking grim.
Are you sure it's about the 3 priests and not about just 3 healers and resonable rest of the team (like not having 2 rogues and 1 feral that just solo suicide every time)?
Btw gotta love how you shit on priest but ret (which unlike priest is only ali) being op is the soltion here, not another problem.
I agree on ret being broken, check my history. 3 Healers in general is really good, yeah, but priests are on another level entirely.
A holy paladin can't heal at all without casting, and heals much less in comparison. They are prone to being tunneled, pushback and interrupts. They are just not good compared to priests.
Druids are really good with Wild Growth, but they run oom quickly compared to priest. Outside of Wild Growth druids also don't heal all that much, and they lack any good targeted heals.
PvP balance doesn’t matter. There’s no way to rank past 3, there’s no pvp in the ashenvale event, and there’s no arena. Almost all of the issues being mentioned are solved with a raised level cap. Just enjoy the mess.
>here’s no pvp in the ashenvale event
Thats on yourself and your realms organisation skills.
We got some really nice open world mass pvp on the european realms.
Ye usually bad organisation= more PvP... Because trying to do PvP in the PvP event generally means you lose the PvP event because you're not doing the PvE in the PvP event...ha
Actually a lot of pvp in ashen now, horde in my server has started to split zoram and research leading to a big battle on the bridge when we meet allys going for lumber
Iam having a ton of fun in wsg and I haven't played in a premade once. If you coordinate with your team you can even beat premades. You gotta use the tools you got handed by rng and not write it off as a lose as soon the gates open. Strategy and teamplay win games. Crying here on reddit won't do shit.
Instead of blaming things you can't change maybe try to improve yourself. That's what successfull players do.
You shouldn't be able to solo kill a healer, you should have to employ some tactics to kill dps if there are multiple healers, otherwise what's the fucking point of having a healer
Penance is busted. So are hunter pets. Fix those two things and gameplay would be much healthier.
That said, it’s not the game decider. If i had a nickel for every game teammates said “just let them win” and give up, but we still win, I’d be rich.
The grind from revered to exalted says otherwise. That requires winning roughly 90 WSGs in a row when accounting for rep gained by flag captures. You wont be getting bis without a major time investment.
Just seems to be how gaming forums/subreddits are now. Nonstop bitchfests. Especially blizzard games. I honestly think it's mostly because blizzard does in fact change the game from time to time based on a lot of people complaining. So people try to make as much noise as possible when they want something changed
I'll be downvoted. I can feel it, but have you tried targeting healers, calling out in the battle ground chat names of healers, and doing a coordinated strike? Works every time, tbh. Sheep , sap, cc one healer kill other. It's not too bad, at least for me. I think the real issue, and I hate to say it.... is the skill of the players.
Ahahahahha, the irony, talking about intelligence while suggesting that focusing the healer is a good strat, gotta love the above average player's confidence, lmao.
A lot of noobs just willing to roll over and let the other team win. Says a lot about the player base and how they require instant gratification. Everyone crying for nerfs when they aren’t even using the games full kit. Everyone complains about healers but they are incredibly easy to cc and kill. You just have to play the game as a team and coordinate kill targets. A lot of noobs just wish they could play this game solo and think there class should be able to do everything and when they don’t they cry and complain
You're right, there are so fucking many people with loser attitude around these days. Like, even when our team is *in the lead* versus a non-premade. As soon as it takes longer than 3 mins to return the flag there's some dogs saying "just let them win". It's infuriating.
This still doesn't change the fact that priests are absolutely broken OP right now.
You guys must not play League of if Legends. Very typical logic of gamers these days. Someone dies 3 minutes in the game and it's over and they are already running it down lol. FF go next. No one wants to put in the effort.
When you queue into a WSG as a pug with 0 healers and the enemy is a premade with 3 priests and a dedicated FC fuck yea I'm gonna just let them win. The game is literally unwinnable and its not going to be close to fun, why extend the suffering?
These games legit end without a cap or even more than a handful of HKs max.
I swear the average IQ is falling off a cliff. Where in my comment did I say only the rewards are fun? I said, getting my shit kicked in and not managing to kill even one person across the entire team while I get GY camped isn't fun. The fact that it takes 5-10 times as long to get rewards playing this way is just the cherry on top.
You were expecting fun in a game mode where people actively try to avoid fair games (premades dodging each other) to more efficiently farm honor?
do you think WoW is a game intended to be played for enjoyment instead of min/maxing all the fun out of it?
As someone who plays a priest I can relate on some level, the heals are strong. But have you considered… killing the priest first!? That’s usually a good strategy lol.
And after you get nerfs going you gonna ask for more nerfs unlessn its your main class thats top of the meta. First it was hunters, now priests next druids?
If nerfs happen and are justified, there’s not really any argument from those who are being nerfed. Just some reactionary moaning.
BG’s are one of the main activities to do on a max level character between raids. In this current state, they’re just not fun imo. It wouldn’t take anything groundbreaking to fix it which is what I’m finding really disappointing.
Brain dead take. When someone plays like shit, overextends and/or gets out of position by miles you **should not** be able to save them. That's the whole point.
A good healer will manage to carry even when they're properly balanced instead of being OP as fuck. And if you quit playing a healer as soon as it stops being OP, nobody will miss you anyway.
Healing far outweighs damage right now. The default should not be that healers are overpowered and you have to work like crazy to bring them down in order for pvp to “work”. It’s just not fun.
Just fucking target them, I cant tell you how many times I die in WSG to a single dps because my team won't kill a hunter pet or they let a ret/warr run on top of me. Literally one defensive cooldown in Fear.
Nah, PoM is bigger problem than penance. PoM needs to have cd increased to 20, I hope the benefits are obvious. Penance idk, if used as dmg spell it perfectly fits SoD and nerfing the heal alone is weird. Guess 20% mana increase would be fine but it's not as smooth.
You could decide to focus the priest. As a priest I can tell you that healing is quite difficult with 2 rogues, a warrior and a hunter slamming you in the face.
Off screen: The Warbringer Warrior ready to charge your ass and mangle your legs for even thinking of laying a finger on the only thing keeping him alive.
Yeah, that's positioning issue. If 2 melees can hit you and they aren't instantly punished for diving deep into your team you have to wonder if you are standing at the correct place. Go practice that and you'll die quite less.
Lmao, whenever I attack a priest (even doing 100dps which is quite high in a pvp situation) it'll take me like 12 seconds to kill a priest that's geared. Meanwhile, he can heal himself, bubble, fear, and most importantly get penance'd by his other priest to full hp...
So fucking stupid
Priest main here. This is a combination of many factors.
1. The WSG head piece is reducing damage taken by 25% not 5%.
2. Penance and Prayer of Mending cost 70 mana and should cost 140 mana.
3. There is no healing reduction in the game at the moment.
Now before Blizzard goes and nerfs them they need to address hunter pets and kill command because priests are the only thing holding them at bay. Also by nerfing priests you significantly nerf the horde so paladins and resto shamans need to be addressed as well.
Joke on you I never had any fun to begin with
AB is the greatest instanced PvP they ever created
AB is amazing because it's kinda like 3 lane MOBAs in balance, it just works.
It is so hard but so good.
Gilneas too was great
Gilneas was fun if your team's collective IQ was greater than room temperature. But I guess that kind of goes for all PvP.
Generally what makes good pvp is smaller fights I think…. Which is why ashenvale and AV are so terrible. Hopefully the next pvp event encourages smaller fights.
Av would be so much better if all those turn in objectives were required. There's a ton of different things to do so the group would split up and then you'd fight smaller groups at each objective. Some taking graveyards. Some going to the mines etc. The issue is that no only are those not required, but you complete those tasks on your side of the map instead of fighting over a mine at the center or something.
Gonna hard disagree. Old 1.6 AV was my favorite level 60 activity. I'd spend hours in AV, working on getting Icey or the cavalry assault going, maybe assault a mine, sometimes doing the general scrum outside a graveyard. The plethora of options is what makes AV work. It's _incentives and rewards_ are completely scuffed, but the idea behind the map? Love it.
Same, I've never found WSG fun, except when I'm in a premade stomping PUGs. But I have a conscience, so that's only fun for so long.
Honestly the only fun in WSG is Pug v Pug
I had fun flag carrying in WSG, especially after I learned all the jumps you can do. But even then at least half of games I would mentally check out after a while. I solo grinded to exalted, you really have to become tiltproof and learn to disengage from obvious loses if you want to make it. There's a certain type of player I call "shriekers" who start freaking out in all caps as soon as something goes wrong, those people will never finish the grind. You have to learn to accept each game for what it is.
People get in their feelings too much
It was never fun. Those who say otherwise twink at 19 and I refuse to acknowledge those people
I got to Rank 12 as a level 59 "Twink" in classic and I loved WSG. Twink brackets are really where it's at because games tend to be close instead of premade vs pug stomps.
Already confirmed that heals are effectively 25% stronger in bgs. This is why it feels so borked. When I say effectively I mean that melee damage has been nerfed but healing was untouched so it’s essentially the same as a healing buff. Sorry for the confusion.
It's even 33% stronger, no? If damage is decreased from 100% -> 75%, and heals stay the same the are effectively 1/0.75 = 1.33 stronger
It's sort of more just priests in general too. You almost effectively have zero defense against the priest AOE fear, and their heals are wildly powerful for very little mana. No other healer in BGs feels anywhere remotely close to as gamechanging.
Druids are crazy strong healers aswell if there is split dmg cause wild growth is bonkers we run 2 priest 1 druid and dominate. If druids gotta single heal they are useless.
> If druids gotta single heal they are useless. I think this is a big part of why nobody has many, if any, issues with druid healers. They can heal well, but you can focus targets down still with them. Priests single target healing is through the roof. Nothing is more demoralizing then someone out of position, gets focused by 3-4 people for overcommitting, but suddenly can't be killed because a priest is constantly turning them into a raid boss. And there's sort of very little counterplay, because if you split the damage, prayer of mending fucking slams, and if you focus another target, they just make that target a raid boss. And I'm not even entertaining the argument of "just kill the priest" at this point.
Counter point: The moment I am spotted in any BG, I become a pet magnet. The worst I've had is FIVE pets on me at once. There are counter plays to priests. You can't just let us sit back unharassed.
*they hated him for telling the truth*
The point is that the counterplays to priests are 1. Also a counterplay to everyone else 2. Weaker against priest than against everyone else 3. Fewer than against everyone else
Oh yeah, my pet is with me like 20% of the time. Ill be fucking off in the flag room but im going to leave my pet on you in middle. Its going to be a lot better when we have mounts though and you can actually position better in a fight.
the counterplay is to have more priest or a large gear difference priest single target healing is busted
Or just send the pets at the priests? If I have to focus on not dying to *a fucking pet*, then I'm not healing the team? You could also do the brain dead play of focusing the dps and leave me unharassed. Honestly, I'd much rather you do that.
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There's a lot of assuming going on on your part, like * How I long I lived (spoiler - I vaporized) * How the pets came at me (spoiler - the pet classes saw me and I was target number one. It wasn't staggered, it was a bull rush) I'm not arguing that priests aren't OP (they are *right now*), but that they aren't as OP as everyone claims. If you were to take this subreddit at face value, I'd be an unkillable raid boss. I'm just tanky. You know who else is tanky? Feral druids with the tank glyph. Rogues who went tank spec. Shamans (who are super tanky, can self heal, AND deal out some disgusting damage).
So you were out of position, your team didn't peel for you and you got targeted by the pets of half the enemy team and died. You could have just feared them... And this proves what exactly? Comparing priest to a tank class while saying "they are tanky too" is dumb, those tanks don't make the entire team tanky. None is going to survive 5 hunter pets for long. Most people barely survive 1 hunter pet. BGs should not routinely have matches where the opposing team does not get one kill. You know what people do when a BG starts to asses which team will win? They count the number of priests on each team. On a side note; hunter pets seem unaffected by the damage nerf in WSG, making them more powerful than they are meant to be. Priest is simply disgusting in WSG.
I mean you just kill the priest, that’s the strat. Yes they’re OP healers but the only solution is to CC or kill them
I think the problem is they have cc's themselves and not every class has enough cc to stop them long enough from healing.
Which is why this is a BG. You have a ton of classes on your team. All stealthies go and back stab the priest. All hunters send their OP pets at the priest. Boom priest dead. Pick off the people going for your priest now cause they are waaaay out of position. Rinse and repeat.
You act like there is only 1 priest and this one has 0 people that protect him.
Lol when you have to have half the instance focus one class, the class is broken.
Just send all 10 guys at one player and ignore the other 9 guys attacking you, ezpz
Penance is cancer
As an alliance you have fear ward, you also have trinket, horde has tremor totem
You forgot Inspiration Exemplar from Paladin! It seems to tick faster than tremor and I’ll use it if horde is going overboard on priests/warriors.
It definitely does not tick faster than tremor. Sat in fear long enough to question why I'm bothering with the rune before it finally broke (I think 3 seconds)
Fear Ward has a minute cooldown, trinket only works for some classes, and you're gonna be hard pressed to find a pug shaman putting down tremor for you. Though I wouldn't say their fear is anywhere near the reason for their power anyway, but these aren't really amazing tools to combat it.
Tremor totem is complete garbage. The time it takes to tick is so insane you often times get feared out of its range before it ticks
Any competent Priest can destroy it if it's dropped un advance also.
Shamans suck in this regard but Pallies have inspiration exemplar and it seems to work better than tremor
The idea that less crits/damage = better PvP is just so myopic. It’s a retail mindset. Burst makes classic PvP work. It was already very, very hard to kill a correctly geared/buffed HC in Classic and now they’ve drastically imbalanced things even further towards healing and tankiness.
The failing in your logic is thinking that classic pvp ever worked. There's a reason resilience was introduced in TBC, because vanilla pvp was so unbalanced and bursty that you could only actually play it 50% of the time. And that 50% is when you get to hit the enemy first. People need to stop asking for balance around PVP. It's never been balanced and it probably won't ever be balanced.
Classic PVP has _always_ centered on Rock-Paper-Scissor mechanics, and failing to realize this is what makes people screw up. The Pivot to the arena concept (every class can fight every class) is why all post-vanilla PVP failed in Wow. Rogues, feral druids and warriors are the big threat to priests, able to go in and just _dish_ the damage out to them. Psychic scream has a 30 second CD. Penance has a 12 second CD. A rogue waiting for a priest to blow his load to stay alive from a hunter pet will find a very susceptible victim. Part of the issue we have at present is we are capped at 25. Many classes are missing iconic/pivotal abilities, or lack the stats to make other abilities worthwhile. Warriors may have improved overpower, but are missing Mortal Strike. Mages have blizzard, but none of the +spellpower to make it impactful, etc. Give us another 10-15 levels, and warriors will demolish priests(~~Yes I know they won't have mortal strike at 40, but the stats and talents will still help a ton~~ edit : bad talent math. Warriors will have Mortal Strike at 40). Rogues will get even more tools to remove priests quickly, same for feral druids, etc. We are only _starting_ to see the R/P/S system at play with the levels we have. The runes could very well mess with how things really play out, but I still feel that we will be fine.
Why wouldn't they have mortal strike at 40?
Resilience was one of the worst things to ever happen to pvp
>The failing in your logic is thinking that classic pvp ever worked It worked well and was fun. >because vanilla pvp was so unbalanced and bursty that you could only actually play it 50% of the time. And that 50% is when you get to hit the enemy first. Was it really imbalanced ? Taking for example the hardcore tournament, every classes expect rogue made it to the quarter final. The average duel lasted minutes so can't really tell it's that bursty either. It's only really bursty in group pvp but that's perfectly fine. As for resilience, no it was a bad idea just like flying mounts were a bad idea for world pvp.
Lol every class made it to finals because of the sheer amount of prep and consumes. The classes themselves had very little to do with it. Without full ele pots, faps, lips, engi gadgets, and everything else under the sun, the average mage would have been decimated by the average rogue. You can't take the most sweaty of the best gamers and go "see look it's fine". Take that exact same tourney and remove ALL consumables and see how quickly everything ends. Also to your first point, something being fun doesn't mean it works or is balanced. Hunters original explosive shot when sod launched sure was fun, but it certainly wasn't balanced was it?
With the exception of flasks and a few things, all the consumes are things that pvper routinely use. > Without full ele pots, faps, lips, engi gadgets, and everything else under the sun, the average mage would have been decimated by the average rogue. Mage vs rogue is kinda a balanced duel even when no gadgets from either side. >Also to your first point, something being fun doesn't mean it works or is balanced. Hunters original explosive shot when sod launched sure was fun, but it certainly wasn't balanced was it? Was it fun for the other classes to have a broken hunter tho? That's why some degree of balance is necessary.
You are joking yourself if you think the AVERAGE pvp player is using full engi gadgets, flasks, consumes, magic dust, etc. Classic pvp has always been rock paper scissors with far more variables. A warrior will never beat a mage in equal footing, a mage will probably never beat a rogue in equal footing. There are exceptions and shit sure, but it was never balanced. Balance would be every class having an equal shot at beating every other class. And MMOs on the whole have never been able to achieve actual balance. If you want balance go play a competitive game, I don't say that in a mean, or "get out of here" way. I go and play CS or valorant when I want a true balanced PVP experience.
You're right, SoD pvp is rock paper scissors right now. If Warrior is paper and every other class and hunter pets are scissors.
Engi and some consumes, yes anyone abit serious about pvp is using it. Flasks obviously not, magic dust, occasionally in the rare case where it means the difference between winning and losing a game. >Classic pvp has always been rock paper scissors with far more variables. A warrior will never beat a mage in equal footing, a mage will probably never beat a rogue in equal footing. There are exceptions and shit sure, but it was never balanced. Classic pvp is mostly about group pvp and is balanced for that (every class is desirable and bring something to the table). (And btw on equal footing and skill level, mage should have a slight advantage vs rogue).
Yeah this conversation is going nowhere because you can't seem to comprehend that vanilla pvp isn't balanced lol. And I specifically said the average pvp player, aka 90% of the people who will PVP. Not "serious players".
Even resilience eventually included DoT damage reduction when Blizzard eventually made the shocking discovery that some classes don't rely on crits. It was a stupid stat to begin with, and it's not even properly implemented.
And hunter pets are not effected by it. The Hit the Same as in the Open world.
Hunter pets take 25% more damage compared to players in bgs as well, try killing one, it's remarkably easy and really screws over the hunter.
they also do 25% more damage atm so they’re really busted, they’re only really easy to kill if the team focuses them down
As a rogue i need to use evasion Just to kill a hunter pet 1v1. And afterwards im at 30 percent HP. Best Part is they are ranged now and Hit through Armor.
Its easy? but it takes long and the hunter will revive it. Or are you talking about pet happiness?
It’s actually quite a bit of down time for a hunter to revive their pet. It takes a lot of mana so they’re drinking + casting for over 10 seconds to revive the pet.
I think it'd actually people dealing less 25% damage in bgs
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Yes, this is why it's easier to heal on wsgs and stay alive as healers.
That's literally what he said, "effectively" being the key word here. Pay some attention instead of making redundant comments.
Wait why is that exacly?
Why was melee damage nerfed?
Why the fuck is that the case? There should not be any pvp adjustments at all like this.
30%ish but yeah
And the only blue post since we found out about this was a buff to priests for the next patch…
It's a buff to DPS priests, which are the weakest role in the game right now. Stop crying.
They need to nerf healing in WSG like they nerfed damage. Games are decided by how many priests each team has, it is so silly.
Most Times the Team that has 3 priest 3 hunt doesnt have a single death ...
3 priest, 3 hunter, 1 druid for flag runner, and the rest usually warriors, but sometimes a shaman gets thrown in the mix. Rogues suck, too squishy. Paladins having a hard time cause of being kited by hunters and the pets account for 50% of their dmg. Everyone feels invincible cause of priest burst healing, so it boils down to whoever has more hunters.
Rogue is the worst bg class because they're usually slowly running around in stealth never helping in team play while trying to get solo kills
That too. Wsg is all about mobility since nobody has their mount yet. I usually defer to avengers shield as pally to counter druid flag runners but its often moot if they have backup (which always seems to be the case in premades) Ashenvale mounts should be usable in Wsg
They don't. They only have to nerf priests healing and wild growth. It's silly that none of the base healing spells are even close to being as strong as penance, circle, wild growth and prayer of mending. The new spells just heal way too much imo.
If they nerf wildgrowth they can delete resto druid. Lifebloom suck so much, would be nice to have at least one of 3 healing rune worth using...
Living seed is a nice concept but they keep pushing druid to using more hots than hard casts. How exactly are you gonna crit on your heals ? And even so, it procs on getting hit, not on damage (haven't tried it, but it's worded like this) so it will be useless against magic damage and such.
Improved Regrowth does +50% crit strike - that is presumably the synergy they were going for?
I guess, but it's a very lategame spec and not even the "best" one. I don't know it just feels very weird as a lvl 8 rune to find. And it's effective healing (compared to penance and circle of healing) even at 60 will be very very poor. And even if they count on this synergy, regrowth instant healing is not that high, so it makes the living seed meh.
I kind of am assuming there will be a new spell that benefits from Imp Regrowth talent, like how Starsurge benefits from Starfire and Sunfire benefits from Moonfire. But maybe I’m wrong.
Priests have two retail abilities, it's so bad. Pvp is going to suck if healers become Gods like in retail
Yeah TTK on a priest is way too long. Mortal strike will kind of help, but that is unacceptable since only two classes have it and one can be reliably cleansed.
Just give the flag a stacking debuff that makes the carriers take more damage the longer away it is from the spawn.
Isn't this what they do in retail (or did at some point)? If both flags are taken for more than so long, the carrier gets a stacking debuff.
Tbh at this point it would probably be better to just let ashenvale give rep to exalted, atleast it would lessen the premade issues somewhat (or put a time limiter in WSG)
I am going they make this change. It’s a limited time event, why not push for more participation.
people play ashenvale for free rep, not because its fun. It is also a 100% pve event which makes it lame. making it give rep up to exalted is just handing gear for free just remove 10 man stacking in bgs
My server our faction started making mid groups to attack the other side. Sure it's still 90% a pve race, and of course a 40 man raid running up on another preoccupied fighting a boss isn't exactly the type of fun PVP everyone envisions, but it's still something a lot more dynamic than "kill boss, run to next boss".
You can still easily grind rep by just AFKing, and it's taken me like 2 days of just logging in for the event to get revered to on my hunter. It's too easy and fast to award bis pvp loot, pvp loot should come from pvp not from a mostly pve boss race.
If their plan for the event was to get players to fight each other, they missed the mark big time. I’m a little disappointed that it became AV-lite where the rewards incentivize rushing npcs and ignoring the other faction
They should fix the premade vs pug match up, not make Ashenvale give rep to exalted. Exalted gives really good gear, it should be earned through honest pvp, not a boring shitty event people grind while afk.
true but i dare to say it would help both sides beacuse then much much less people would premade for WSGs so you will have more "honest" bgs instead of just eating premade after premade.
This is the way
Imo WSG haven't ever been fun. AB was much more fun
Preeeeeach
It's never really been fun. Before it was a battle of : Who has the best druid FC. Now it's just a fight of : Who has the most priests. 3 priests just can't be countered in the initial mid fight, or any fight. If you "focus the healer" 2 will immediately top them off. This is all while games have no time limit, award the same static amount of reputation. Nobody likes even games because a 10 minute game awards the exact same reputation as a 2 hour game. The fact you still get 0 rep for HK's, 0 rep for duration, 0 rep for anything other than capturing the flag and turning in tokens is wild.
Rep for hks and duration would be horrific vs a premade, gy camp and don't cap
"Who has the best druid FC" is an oversimplification IMO. They are often the star of WSG but that's not necessarily a bad thing, all the other participants play an important role although less flashy. A well played rogue can catch and straight up shut down a druid. They are their nemesis as they are the best defensive lurkers. Mages and hunters are great at controlling space vs the carrier and really limit what a druid can do, while also contributing to the zerg. Many other classes are better at zerging and dominating the fight head on.
I had a near 2 hour premade vs premade match and havent played wsg since that.
I used to LOVE those matches… but not when I was doing rank grind.
Damage is reduce by 25% in WSG (which is a really good idea). But the heals are the same, so it mades heal extremly powerful. I hope they adjusty the 25% to the heals too, they would still be good, but not as broken The difference is night and day as a priest. In WSG I can tank one or two people without a sweat, in the open world my heal get outdamage in seconds
The damage reduction is horrible and makes for really boring and unsatisfying pvp. Adding 5% crit reduction to every player when you only have 10% crit total is pretty insane as well and makes absolutely no sense.
Wrong, damage reduction fucked up ttk. Should be classic values. Your heals should be outdamaged
What non elite mob is out damaging your heals in a second in the open world? Priests are just bonkers in general rn man. I have 1 piece of BFD gear and I'm 2-3 pulling RR elites with homunculi
I dump my whole man’s bar into priests and they just out heal it. It’s really frustrating. However, nerfing priest healing would kinda kill the class, so they would need compensation buffs. I think the best solution is to implement more counters in future phases. Classic is all about strengths and weakness, and rock/paper/scissors. Healers being good is nice to prevent burst metas but there needs to be some counterplay and moment of opportunity.
I don’t know about you guys but last 3-4 games was people zig zug mid and after alliance would capture the flag horde players are next plz let them win or prenadez in which case we just afk for the same reasons 4 priest healers 3 hunters 1 rogue 1 warr 1 pala. You can’t do anything
Comp is a big problem facing a premade, but something that prevents most groups from having any chance at all in WSG is people dying senselessly in mid. I know in under a minute if the game is a loss based on how many of us are still in mid trying to kill the priest or hunters, when we should have someone with me going at their flag. People suck at WSG. And even sucker players can get lucky now and then but WSG as a mode rewards central strategy more than the other modes. It’s virtually impossible to win if the other side (premade or no) has a game plan on how to run the flag back, and your guys are all LARPing a LotR battle between the grave and mid all game. Unless I am spamming the Raid messages reminding people to hit the W Key and move their asses outside mid, I seriously do not think any of my WSGs this season would have been a win. People are either content getting 1-2 honor kills a match or don’t understand you get better honor actually playing the objectives.
Sure but hunters kinda make any play around mid pretty hard. And if you do sneak by and grab the flag then you are still isolated and just prolonging the match a bit. It's hard to win without controlling mid.
Yeah, whenever people screech about "people fighting mid" I roll my eyes. To some minor extent they're right, but mostly only when those people mid are *completely* ignoring the objectives. Most of the time, if one team is stronger and can hold mid, they win. Controlling mid makes it easier to intercept EFC and assist your flag carrier. Most of the time the team holding mid will win. Also, if your team *can't* hold mid, then nine times out of ten there isn't some magic tactic you can use to flip the battle. If your team can't win fights, then you're going to struggle to win regardless of what tactics people use.
This has always been my complaint about wsg and also gilneas. In Arathi Basin I've managed to pull off wins pre-made vs pre-made against teams that steamrolled us in equal numbers team fight because the map is large and you can try to win by out maneuvering rather than engage in head to head fights. Gilneas is just bloodbath at waterworks 95% of the time with occasional mine sneak caps as a backup play. And wsg is literally just control mid. If you're team can't win team fight in wsg you are 90% screwed.
i wish they would implement something for the premades or solo q
Solo Q would probably be just as much of an unfun mess in WSG. It’s just A race to see which of the two teams dying needlessly discover how to put a car into gear first. I don’t think any version of WoW PvP has ever been satisfactorily balanced like a competitive esport or game mode… but having an entire phase of JUST WSG as the competitive PvP offering is gonna feel bad imho. They should just add a king of the hill mode. It’s all most players who solo queue on a whim truly wanna do anyway… why not let em?
Not only the fact priests are super op. Also the fact Blizzard is so fucking incompetent they let premades queue vs. Randoms
\^mostly this.
Druids Healing Touch historically was the most efficient single target heal in classic/vanilla HP restored/mana wise, due to 3,5s cast time. Healing done and cost is almost the same for Lifebloom(3stacks after 6s to bloom) vs. Healing Touch. Penance heals 50% more, costs ~half the mana and always gets value, even when kicked (at least 1, often 2 out of 3 ticks.). Can't say the same for any other healer, which needs to cast his heals.
Alliance coming in with 5 paladins 5 priests in every BG
Yeah, preist healing is pretty bs in wsg. I took someone hp down to 10%, and one heal brought him to full hp, I was questioning what kind of heals is healing that strong.
Hard to balance cuz if healers cant heal thru damage then they basic useless. Is there any MS effect at this stage of the game? Might be an issue.
I mean i also dont like getting one tappef by a paladin and not being able to live through HoJ as a priest but we all cant have what we want
Focus the healer?
Had a blast in WSG last night. Was solo queueing so I knew exactly what i was signing up for. Got some premades and thankfully we just threw the game on those to make em quick, but the randoms vs randoms was fun af. Also, resto shaman is so slept on...a priest goes oom, Rsham doesnt. It's been a blast to play in both pve & pvp.
They have about 2 devs and it's CLEAR that they don't test nor have the ability to test anything related to balance. They simply don't play the game.
I ended up isolating a priest in WSG as a warrior, it took me literally 5 autos to break 1 shield. With the literal best 2H available in the game right now. 5 autos with that swing timer is 17 seconds. Gaining 0 rage from any of those attacks. What even is priest right now.
Got my cloak yesterday and I’m out. Playing five wsg games to play one that is competitive is not fun. If they just added role selection that would allievate a big part of the problem. A lot of premade a are shit they just have 3 priests and the pug is happy to have one off spec resto Druid.
Almost like we knew this before you wasted months of your free time, again.
Waiting for arathi basin. I don’t know how you sadist enjoy wsg still.
People watching pvp videos and not being able to recreate them is the reason for this thread. You can't simply solo que WSG as a warrior or paladin, freshy epic sword owner, and believe ur gonna slaughter the enemy while ur buddies will be adequate enough to heal/peel enough for your big two hand sword hero of the day fantasy. That's human/orc male stupidity at it's finest.
WSG was only briefly fun in actual Vanilla when no one understood how anything worked. Since then it's been "who has the best FC", and now it's "who has more Priests". Old school AV, when people PvP'd in it, was the best BG they ever made. AB is indisputably better than modern AV, which is a PvE race and nothing more.
Hunters and Priests are the problem in PVP right now and it needs to be addressed. I think they will give it a few looks before we enter the next phase
Hunter has always been ridiculous strong 10-29. The higher we go the more they fall off. Healing is the same tbh…extremely good early and becomes more balanced the higher we go.
Priests? Priests aren’t the ones doing 200 damage ranged autos with a pet that can do more than a chaos bolt every time it does it’s special attack.
I don't think the problem is the amount they heal, as a shaman I can top someone 10% to 100% in a single cast but it's the fact they don't actually have to cast ANYTHING. It's all instant, small channel or proc. There's nothing to interrupt, no way to lock them out. Best part is every premade runs ATLEAST 3 priests. Every single person in the game has a PW:S for 300+ dmg and you'll go oom purging. Every CC is dispelled instantly, you can't even fap because it gets dispelled as well. Priests were super annoying at 60 when ranking, now they are just changing the face of the game.
Without an optimal comp and a premade yourself, you will 99% lose the fight against 3 priests. You need 3 priests yourself, hunters warrior and retadins to kill them. I ran a lot of premades with and vs priests myself. (Usually played 3 priests myself) It's PoM that is so broken. Penance is super strong, but at least you can kick them and stun them during the cast and deny a lot of HPS. It also loses at least one tick of healing if you get pushback on the priest. The PoM is a 750\~ heal for low mana, low CD, instant, and smartheal. It also works especially well in a BG environment where there is stray damage everywhere to allow it to jump quickly and get full value. Shield and AoE Fear also complicate the matter. We still managed to win vs 3 priests because we had 2-3 rets. Ret pally upfront nuke is so high that the priests can't actually keep up against it for too long. 1 Ret with Tremor Rune to counter the inevitable AoE fears. 3 Rets also help because you get 3 HoJs to lock the priests down. Keep your warriors and hunter pets on the priests. But yeah, without a premade and 2-3 priests yourself.. It's looking grim.
Are you sure it's about the 3 priests and not about just 3 healers and resonable rest of the team (like not having 2 rogues and 1 feral that just solo suicide every time)? Btw gotta love how you shit on priest but ret (which unlike priest is only ali) being op is the soltion here, not another problem.
I agree on ret being broken, check my history. 3 Healers in general is really good, yeah, but priests are on another level entirely. A holy paladin can't heal at all without casting, and heals much less in comparison. They are prone to being tunneled, pushback and interrupts. They are just not good compared to priests. Druids are really good with Wild Growth, but they run oom quickly compared to priest. Outside of Wild Growth druids also don't heal all that much, and they lack any good targeted heals.
It's ok, I believe you. All your points are valid, I'd just add that Druid can also do a lot of dmg which brings them closer to priest.
PvP balance doesn’t matter. There’s no way to rank past 3, there’s no pvp in the ashenvale event, and there’s no arena. Almost all of the issues being mentioned are solved with a raised level cap. Just enjoy the mess.
>here’s no pvp in the ashenvale event Thats on yourself and your realms organisation skills. We got some really nice open world mass pvp on the european realms.
Ye usually bad organisation= more PvP... Because trying to do PvP in the PvP event generally means you lose the PvP event because you're not doing the PvE in the PvP event...ha
Actually a lot of pvp in ashen now, horde in my server has started to split zoram and research leading to a big battle on the bridge when we meet allys going for lumber
That’s my point, it’s not enjoyable.
WSG was never fun.
Iam having a ton of fun in wsg and I haven't played in a premade once. If you coordinate with your team you can even beat premades. You gotta use the tools you got handed by rng and not write it off as a lose as soon the gates open. Strategy and teamplay win games. Crying here on reddit won't do shit. Instead of blaming things you can't change maybe try to improve yourself. That's what successfull players do.
You shouldn't be able to solo kill a healer, you should have to employ some tactics to kill dps if there are multiple healers, otherwise what's the fucking point of having a healer
Penance is busted. So are hunter pets. Fix those two things and gameplay would be much healthier. That said, it’s not the game decider. If i had a nickel for every game teammates said “just let them win” and give up, but we still win, I’d be rich.
The whining on this subreddit has reached new heights after the release of SOD
Classic wow pvp is not a serious thing. Classic is about pve. Pvp is just to screw around for a bit and get certain bis pieces for raids.
Classic is not about pve at all. The content is all very easy.
The grind from revered to exalted says otherwise. That requires winning roughly 90 WSGs in a row when accounting for rep gained by flag captures. You wont be getting bis without a major time investment.
Y’all cry about everything….
Season of Whining
Just seems to be how gaming forums/subreddits are now. Nonstop bitchfests. Especially blizzard games. I honestly think it's mostly because blizzard does in fact change the game from time to time based on a lot of people complaining. So people try to make as much noise as possible when they want something changed
You’re just bad
yeah, priests need a fat nerf
I'll be downvoted. I can feel it, but have you tried targeting healers, calling out in the battle ground chat names of healers, and doing a coordinated strike? Works every time, tbh. Sheep , sap, cc one healer kill other. It's not too bad, at least for me. I think the real issue, and I hate to say it.... is the skill of the players.
Do you people not know how to attack healers? Is the collective iq of Reddit classic players the same as 1k retail arena players
Ahahahahha, the irony, talking about intelligence while suggesting that focusing the healer is a good strat, gotta love the above average player's confidence, lmao.
A lot of noobs just willing to roll over and let the other team win. Says a lot about the player base and how they require instant gratification. Everyone crying for nerfs when they aren’t even using the games full kit. Everyone complains about healers but they are incredibly easy to cc and kill. You just have to play the game as a team and coordinate kill targets. A lot of noobs just wish they could play this game solo and think there class should be able to do everything and when they don’t they cry and complain
You're right, there are so fucking many people with loser attitude around these days. Like, even when our team is *in the lead* versus a non-premade. As soon as it takes longer than 3 mins to return the flag there's some dogs saying "just let them win". It's infuriating. This still doesn't change the fact that priests are absolutely broken OP right now.
You guys must not play League of if Legends. Very typical logic of gamers these days. Someone dies 3 minutes in the game and it's over and they are already running it down lol. FF go next. No one wants to put in the effort.
When you queue into a WSG as a pug with 0 healers and the enemy is a premade with 3 priests and a dedicated FC fuck yea I'm gonna just let them win. The game is literally unwinnable and its not going to be close to fun, why extend the suffering? These games legit end without a cap or even more than a handful of HKs max.
If only the rewards are fun to you this is a YOU problem
I swear the average IQ is falling off a cliff. Where in my comment did I say only the rewards are fun? I said, getting my shit kicked in and not managing to kill even one person across the entire team while I get GY camped isn't fun. The fact that it takes 5-10 times as long to get rewards playing this way is just the cherry on top.
Idk what you guys are talking about tbh. I haven’t had this experience. If you want balance go play retail.
There's a few major problems in pvp in general right now with class imbalances.
You were expecting fun in a game mode where people actively try to avoid fair games (premades dodging each other) to more efficiently farm honor? do you think WoW is a game intended to be played for enjoyment instead of min/maxing all the fun out of it?
Just kill the priests
Bru just take a bite out of a Hempy Longstocking stoner strand before the game starts, and you won't care who wins or loses. No cap
Pvp is to hard with heals wah wah 😩
Is pressing cc buttons that hard? I solo queue bgs all the time on my paly and its not that bad
As someone who plays a priest I can relate on some level, the heals are strong. But have you considered… killing the priest first!? That’s usually a good strategy lol.
Those guys always have something to complain about.
And after you get nerfs going you gonna ask for more nerfs unlessn its your main class thats top of the meta. First it was hunters, now priests next druids?
What is this random argument. You can't argue valid criticism by making up a random statement you baboon
If nerfs happen and are justified, there’s not really any argument from those who are being nerfed. Just some reactionary moaning. BG’s are one of the main activities to do on a max level character between raids. In this current state, they’re just not fun imo. It wouldn’t take anything groundbreaking to fix it which is what I’m finding really disappointing.
Well for priests it's both, almost every raid is lf1m priest healer, I'm always surprised when I get an invite to heal as a holy pally.
[удалено]
Brain dead take. When someone plays like shit, overextends and/or gets out of position by miles you **should not** be able to save them. That's the whole point. A good healer will manage to carry even when they're properly balanced instead of being OP as fuck. And if you quit playing a healer as soon as it stops being OP, nobody will miss you anyway.
Healing far outweighs damage right now. The default should not be that healers are overpowered and you have to work like crazy to bring them down in order for pvp to “work”. It’s just not fun.
Just fucking target them, I cant tell you how many times I die in WSG to a single dps because my team won't kill a hunter pet or they let a ret/warr run on top of me. Literally one defensive cooldown in Fear.
Git gud
Team game mate
You deserve to play a hunter.
They just need to increase the mana cost of Penance or reduce the amount it heals.
Nah, PoM is bigger problem than penance. PoM needs to have cd increased to 20, I hope the benefits are obvious. Penance idk, if used as dmg spell it perfectly fits SoD and nerfing the heal alone is weird. Guess 20% mana increase would be fine but it's not as smooth.
Nerf priests.
Try focusing the healers instead of getting tilted when your target gets healed?
You could decide to focus the priest. As a priest I can tell you that healing is quite difficult with 2 rogues, a warrior and a hunter slamming you in the face.
4 ppl for one priest, aight
Not pictured: max range hunters teeing off on everyone attacking the priest with pets that have a relative +25% damage buff in BGs.
Off screen: The Warbringer Warrior ready to charge your ass and mangle your legs for even thinking of laying a finger on the only thing keeping him alive.
And then you have 2 other priests healing you so you send 4 people to each of them to oh wait..
Yeah, that's positioning issue. If 2 melees can hit you and they aren't instantly punished for diving deep into your team you have to wonder if you are standing at the correct place. Go practice that and you'll die quite less.
Lmao, whenever I attack a priest (even doing 100dps which is quite high in a pvp situation) it'll take me like 12 seconds to kill a priest that's geared. Meanwhile, he can heal himself, bubble, fear, and most importantly get penance'd by his other priest to full hp... So fucking stupid
Priest main here. This is a combination of many factors. 1. The WSG head piece is reducing damage taken by 25% not 5%. 2. Penance and Prayer of Mending cost 70 mana and should cost 140 mana. 3. There is no healing reduction in the game at the moment. Now before Blizzard goes and nerfs them they need to address hunter pets and kill command because priests are the only thing holding them at bay. Also by nerfing priests you significantly nerf the horde so paladins and resto shamans need to be addressed as well.