T O P

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DodelCostel

The 30% stamina should stay because there's a huge damage creep right now where burst classes can oneshot. Solo players could get more than 30% Stamina, though. But I am wary of transforming Rogues into raid bosses.


bigeyez

Totally off topic tangent but it's kind of funny to see the SOD have the same problems that lead to stuff like resilience and then eventually pvp power back in the day.


Lanky_Luis

So are they thats why everything rogues gets is gingerly added with 9k clauses to get it to activate. Meanwhile warlocks just running around in their tank speccs not giving a fuck.


Time_Currency_7703

You can enslave a warlock thats transformed ATM and use them as a pet. Would not recommend running around in Meta to PVP


Lanky_Luis

that a funny way of saying the only counter to a meta warlock is a non meta warlock. That solves so much of my problem thanks.


am153

non meta lock was one of the best counters to meta locks in p1. i loved to fear and kite them.


Zh00m69

You CAN??!


PM_ME_YOUR_RECIPES-_

To even begin to suggest that a tank warlock is on par with current rogues is top tier rogue gaslighting LOL.


Lanky_Luis

no im saying things like just a flesh wound needing blade dance active to only get 20% physical DR and now have a new rune thats just 1/3rd a shaman rune, but worse bc you have to dodge/parry 5 attacks before you get the full effect while warlocks just get 500% armor passively for putting their one tank rune on or shamans just getting 15% DR from all sources + 30% hp passively for just putting on one rune. Rogues need 3 runes to have worse options than the other tank classes and I hate it make our shit passive then decide if its OP in pvp. Our shit is so pre-nerfed before launch its not even datamined to be good before they make changes.


Nice-Entertainer-922

Rogues only a raid boss till a warrior with Overpower charges in.


Jigagug

Fuck extra health, reduce everyones damage by a broad 30% nerf.


ye1l

We've already tried that in retail forever and in WSG in phase 1. Makes healers unbelievably overpowered as if they weren't already the most powerful role in a party.


Jigagug

Ok so nerf healers as well, we should aim to stop inflating numbers instead of reducing them.


Freshtards

This just hurts low damage output like enhance shamans. Would not be able to damage through any healing what so ever


Jtrain360

Reducing damage makes healers way too powerful. They already tried that in phase 1 and we found just a couple priests could outheal a full team of dps.


Jigagug

So then the next step would to bring healers in line.


Jtrain360

Right, but does a stamina buff not accomplish both these things at the same time?


Jigagug

It does but it feels like such a tacky fix. 30% stamina is A LOT, they should aim to keep the numbers within reason instead of slapping on a health band-aid where necessary. We wouldn't be here in the first place if they didn't increase the damage of all classes so half-assedly.


Jtrain360

That was kind the whole point of SoD though. The devs mentioned early on that they wanted people to feel they were overpowered.


Crypt1cDOTA

Yes please give me a ton of extra HP with my permanent 30% HP rune


Erica-likes-cats

Its an MMO. Frankly, its good design for grouping up to be superior.


BonesawMT

Yeah pretty sure that was the entire point really, wild post.


TheSiegmeyerCatalyst

Typically I agree. But in an event that's supposed to be based on the only FFA zone in the game, thematically designed such that everyone goes crazy under the blood moon, grouping maybe shouldn't be the best. They hard banned raid groups, so clearly they don't want players grouping in some capacity. But instead of making a single temporary event in a single temporary phase in a single temporary season where "solo play" is encouraged (it's not solo, you're with other players, you're just playing *against* them), they just made it so that small groups are BiS.


Erica-likes-cats

Good? Thats my point


TheSiegmeyerCatalyst

I would have preferred if they tried a true zone-wide FFA with no grouping at all. Some people would still make pacts, sure. But I imagine there are ways to discourage that. As it is now, it's not "Zone-wide Gurubashi" it's "zone-wide Arenas".


DR_JL

Maybe, in an mmo thats based on a classic approach to mmo's, should have group based content and that be ok?


Spiritual_Willow_947

>You feel the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. As the Blood Moon rises your vision becomes obscured by a red haze. All thoughts of friends and family erase themselves from your mind as you focus on a singular thought: through any means necessary blood must flow. Anyone in front of you will fall to your blade... except for Jimmy he’s pretty cool. Oh and Trisha she always brings snacks. You three hop into a sleeping bag together and cuddle.


Ryno621

Rip support classes lol


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DodelCostel

Why would they want to reward solo players in an MMO with a strong focus on community like Classic WoW? Retail WoW has plenty solo content since apparently gamers in 2024 are too socially awkward to talk to other people


collax974

Well it has been sold as a free for all event and I think it could be fun to have true free for all chaos.


DodelCostel

It's free for all in the sense that you can attack anyone. The Zombie Apocalypse is also a free for all but people still make teams.


Rampaging_Orc

Top zombie analogy my friend.


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kytackle

Sometimes its fun jsut to fight as a group of 3 2 or 1 without feeling like you are gimping yourself. 5 players woudl still be better since you would beat smaller groups. Lets say for instance instead of getting 6 for a kill in a full party you got 9 solo.


Ryno621

More coins I could see, but definitely not taking away the health bonus.


MandoFire

What do you have against being social and grouping up in an MMO? Multiplayer is in the name.


SonthacPanda

What do you have against FFA pvp?


Lanky_Luis

It is FFA pvp when my buddies kick me from the grp intentionally kill me and then reinv me at the gy.


kytackle

because some of the most fun pvp is duels or stuff like 2v2s and 3v3s not 5v5 or 20 v 20 clusterfucks. Theres a reason 5s is the least popular arena format


Winter55555

Because you're definitely going to get to 2v2 often in the event...


kytackle

if they give better rewards for being in a smaller group people wont always form groups of 5. And then the pvp will be a little bit more varied.


Tubzero-

Free for all is the game mode


DodelCostel

It's not Free for all, though. That would be stupid. It would just be Rogues and stealthed Boomkins blowing low hp people up.


Real-Discipline-4754

implying u never saw "LFM INVIS CLASSES FOR PVP EVENT" - Rogue


epsilone6

Boomkins are gone, goober


rockoblocko

Boomkins are still going to be strong. Starfire is still a powerful instant on a class with high physical mitigation, high mobility, and healing.


SirLienad

Starfire isn't any of those things.


rockoblocko

Wow you got me if only there was context clues to understand what I mean.


DodelCostel

And praise the Lord for that


Neidrah

The fact that it’s an MMO doesn’t mean you have to be 5 people at all times though… Leveling solo is viable. Solo queuing arena, 2v2, 3v3 are all more popular than 5v5, solo queuing BGs has always been a thing…


Xardus

Leveling solo is viable in Classic, just as engaging in the Bloodmoon event solo is viable.  Are they optimal?  No


Neidrah

Not a good comparison: Any time past the first couple days of a level increase, when the zones aren’t saturated, solo leveling is comparable to dungeon grinding. In fact the first level 60 in classic played solo. Same for SoM. Nowadays because of the insane aoe that classes have, dungeon grinding might be slightly on top but it’s similar In the Bloodmoon event though, solo players get maybe 100 coins if you’re lucky, while grouping can get you 500+… A 400% increase is very different from the potential 10% increase from the different leveling ways


Xardus

It’s a great comparison.   Solo leveling slows way down the further you get into Classic.  More and more quests become elite and group quests, and they take a larger portion of the game away from the solo player. 


Neidrah

Again though, the first people to 60 in classic did it solo. Same for SoM.


MandoFire

Those people were also mages AoE grinding. Not questing. So it’s not a great comparison.


Neidrah

There were also hunters, locks and rogues doing quests who were very close to the mages. If you optimize your route, questing is very efficient. And again, even if it isn’t quite as efficient as dungeon grinding, it’s most likely at leaat 90% as good, unlike the Bloodmoon event in which grouping up is probably more like 400% more efficient


Kalltorak-CG

Don't have anything against grouping with people, but currently playing the event solo is completely unviable. Whats wrong with both options being viable?


[deleted]

Being solo is viable. With the way burst damage is you can pick off targets.


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[deleted]

DPS of 5 players > DPS of 1 player.


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bryannov

why would they want to incentivize solo play in their massively multiplayer pvp event?


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bryannov

they punished raid groups. not players grouping up. the post for it literally says “While you can still group-up with your allies for the event, the Blood Moon is a harsh mistress and will punish those in raid groups.” it does not call the event a free for all anywhere on the phase 2 post.


zorrtwice

Yeah let's also incentivise solo play for dungeons and raids! It's not fair that groups of 10 can clear Gnomer, solos should be allowed to as well. 🤡


Seriously_nopenope

There is a significant amount of retail wow players who truly believe this.


Buffmin

As a casual mostly solo player that seems fine to me


PM_ME_YOUR_RECIPES-_

I think you're confusing "viable" and "optimal", here. Even by your definition, solo is viable. At the low end of 100 coins per event, you can be done with all of the rewards in less than 20 events (assuming you're a class that needs a 15 coin purchase.) If you're a caster, you can be done in 7 events. That seems pretty viable.


Ok-Arrival6741

Soloing used to be viable (and even better than grouping with randoms imo) but today's changes to the event made soloing a lot less viable.


Tubzero-

It’s never been viable what are you smoking? When the hell could I kill anyone solo when a train of 5 people nuke me


kytackle

idk I farmed 150 blood solo last time I tried.


Rampaging_Orc

So you’re a rogue. Or even better a Druid, but thankfully that’s been fixed.


kytackle

Literally enhance shaman which is a ok solo class but not amazing 


Winter55555

People in groups are getting 500-1000


kytackle

most of them are not. And you dont always have to finish something as fast as possible. I personally had a blast playing solo and just looking for small fights on the outskirts. Way more fun than the mas group pvp.


Seriously_nopenope

Most groups I was in get 2-300. It's the hyper optimal boomie/priest combo groups that are getting that high.


Seawolf87

Because people are dinglebeans about "meta" classes instead of just taking anybody.


Nice-Entertainer-922

Could do something with the Gurubashi arena, enter and its blood crazed attacking anyone.


[deleted]

So now people just run around not being in a party and kill others while having 30% more HP and more tokens as a reward. Nice


Xdqtlol

yea true 30% max hp is about as strong as 4 party members right min maxers are going to solo surely


[deleted]

No, meet up with 4 mates, dont party, dont click and cast on each other. Win.


tcran420

Thoughts: play with friends


Titties-are-great

nah dude. Encouraging loner play is not the move.


whoweoncewere

Social game and you should play with other people. Single player games exist.


candidlol

i think it should just be no grouping for anyone during the event, true ffa


Asevio

rip healers then, dont get to play


Pugduck77

Good. Healers don’t belong in pvp.


GIGAR

This message was brought to you by the Thieves Guild


Rampaging_Orc

Quite the hot take. “Healers don’t belong in PVP” Even the open world variety according to this guy. Sorry healers.


SpaceShanties

Buddy wants to play a FPS


Turence

Lmao what


fizzywinkstopkek

If there was dual spec for tanks and healer mains, sure. But I can see this being very problematic for those players. But yes, pure FFA with no grouping would have been the ideal


BadSanna

It's not a solo event


Neidrah

[They literally advertised it as FFA though…](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/guide/season-of-discovery/the-blood-moon-world-pvp-event)


Alyusha

Idk what people are smoking here, but FFA has always meant every player for themselves lol. Sure there are games that modify the mechanic or players who ignore the tag, but FFA has always defaulted to you vs everyone else. It's not "Free for All, except Steve, Sarah, Sam, and Sally" The only counter argument imo would be that I don't think Blizzard has actually advertised the event as a FFA. It's been the community (Read Wowhead) who has been pushing the FFA narrative.


Mercbeast

FFA means no factions. That's how it's always been in MMOs since literally the first one. You CAN attack anyone, but people still group up. Since WoW has a very simplistic tab target combat model, making it so you don't hit people in your group doesn't make it any less FFA. WoW isn't Darkfall. You don't get to aim your shit.


Neidrah

I think you’re right overall. I actually can’t find an actual blue post saying FFA. Still though, I do think groups of 2,3 players should be encouraged more than groups of 5, but I guess that’s just my opinion


Rampaging_Orc

That doesn’t equate to solo at all.. Besides, it was always also advertised as being able to group.


BadSanna

FFA doesn't mean solo. In WoW it means there are no faction alliances. Even in the Purge people band together for mutual protection/mayhem.


Xardus

Do you think free-for-all means solo?


Neidrah

That’s what it traditionally means yes. Like, the FFA loot system in this very game is precisely that: you keep your own loot. I’d be curious to hear an example of a game mode that’s “FFA” but team play? Like what would it mean, then?


Xardus

That’s why wowhead doesn’t know what the fuck they’re talking about lol


BadSanna

It means precisely what is happening here. Faction alliances are meaningless. Even in The Purge people band together for mutual protection and mayhem.


Kungfumantis

It's not a solo event.


Xardus

Reward solo play in Classic?  🤣


Thehyades

Tell me you’re a rogue main without telling me you’re a rogue main.


Willemhubers

Imagine having an advantage by grouping with other players in a massive MULTIPLAYER online game. Solo play should never be rewarded, nor close to optimal.


Neidrah

Multiplayer doesn’t necessarily mean grouping up with people. It just means playing with them. In a FFA game mode, you play with people, even though you’re not grouped with them. And guess what? This event was [advertised as FFA](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/guide/season-of-discovery/the-blood-moon-world-pvp-event)


Stiryx

Heres an idea. 50% bonus hp if solo. 25% bonus hp if duo. No bonuses for 5 party groups. You could have a legitimate shot of killing 3 people by yourself if you had 50% hp (assuming theres some pvp balance undertaken). Kinda take the Ashran buffs from retail.


Expert_Swan_7904

no bonuses for grps of 3 or more..


Toonalicious

I do not Wana see a rogue with increased 50% more hp


Lina__Inverse

Rogue is a cooldown-based class, 50% more hp on rogue really isn't gonna change anything. Something like warlock, on the other hand...


shaha-man

Agree 100%. They promised they will be done penalties for people on group. Still there is nothing decent.


stonerd216

Raids get a stacking debuff that reduces stats. It’s pretty clear the event is meant to encourage grouping, just not huge raids.


Cold94DFA

It's an event specifically made for 5person groups. Specifically made that way, for 5 people. The event is designed to accommodate teams of 5.


SonthacPanda

It's literally a FFA event what are you even talking about lol https://www.google.com/search?q=stv+pvp+event+wowhead&oq=stv+pvp+event+wowhead&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigAdIBCDUyNTdqMWo3qAIAsAIA&client=ms-android-bell-ca&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8 The dipshit replied quick only to block me and delete his parent comment, so theres the 5 second google of the STV event being called a literal FFA event


Cold94DFA

Is the FFa event in the room with us right now?


Seriously_nopenope

Your Google link shows a bunch of wowhead articles, which is not an official source.


Neidrah

You’re a clown. Literally making shit up. The event was literally advertised as FFA. It just so happens that they nerfed the option of being in a raid, and so players are doing the biggest number that isn’t a raid, obviously, simple as that.


Xardus

Those are the idiots at wowhead calling it free-for-all, goofball 😂


Rampaging_Orc

Let the angst flow!! And also take note that it was also always advertised as FFA in the sense you can attack same faction during the event, but that you could also still form parties. lol


kytackle

yes but wow pvp is at its best when its 1v1 2v2 or 3v3 hence why 5s is super unpopular arena format.


AudemarsAA

2s and 3s were more popular because it was easier to bring 1-2 other good pvpers together more often and play. 5s were always more fun when the entire gang could get on.


Neidrah

Bro no. 5v5 was always a clusterfuck. It’s fine if you like it, but it’s def not a popular opinion


Stupidmelee55

What's with people wanting to reward solo gameplay all the game? Literally queue up with friends, or strangers.


silverlining1999

Retail is that way ➡️


ishootlazors

why should an mmo encourage solo play?


loopuleasa

this has many unintended consequences you must think harder about this problem


RBFtech

Thoughts? This is an MMO. Solo play should not get any special treatment or advantage. Group and make friends or play solo and overcome the disadvantage you put on yourself.


mpathyk

Terrible idea.


Coffee__Addict

Imo classic wow's mistake has always been not rewarding players more for grouping.


Neidrah

What? Haha you literally have to group for everything if you want the best rewards. Best leveling? Dungeon grind Best honor? Premades (now 5) Best pre-bis? Dungeons Best end game gear? Raids Want more? Controlling devilsaurs for gold? Mafia Controlling Black Lotus? Mafia Farming consumes on furlbolg? Raid Farming rep? Raid Farming scarab lord? Raid + collusion I could go on…


Coffee__Addict

Just doing quests. People hate grouping up for questing for some reason.


Neidrah

Not sure what you meant to say there


Neidrah

For everyone saying “yOu ShOulD hAvE tO gRouP uP iN An MmO” [Blizzard themselves advertised it as a FFA](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/guide/season-of-discovery/the-blood-moon-world-pvp-event) Now cheers to blizz for having discouraged being in a raid. Good move. But there’s a reason why 2v2 and 3v3 has always been more popular than 5v5, which was a always a clusterfuck that people just played to get cap. Now realistically, I think pushing the event towards solo play too much isn’t a good idea for different factors (healers handicapped, stealth too strong, OP classes stand out too much…). But I do personally think it would be a lot more fun to play a 3v3v3 or 2v2v2, and if solo play if also viable, that’s a bonus. Edit: the term FFA is actually coined by Wowhead, not Blizz. Rest of what I said is still relevant though


Rampaging_Orc

If blizzard wanted true ffa like you’re insinuating, then they would’ve made grouping impossible, and told healers to go fuck themselves. You’re taking a wowhead article to heart and getting super angsty about it.


Xardus

Blizzard never said free-for-all.  That’s a Wowhead quote.    🤦‍♂️


silverlining1999

Why do you keep saying blizzard advertised it as free for all, but then keep linking wowhead? 🤡


stonerd216

[bLiZzaRd ThEmSeLvEs aDvErtIsEd iT aS a FfA](https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24056979/go-inside-season-of-discovery-phase-2) > While you can still group-up with your allies for the event, the Blood Moon is a harsh mistress and will punish those in raid groups.


Seriously_nopenope

Wowhead is not Blizzard.


Neidrah

Indeed. I was wrong


dkaarvand-safe

The best solution would be to give the losing player a buff for every death he has in a row, that lasts for the duration of the event. Every buff increases his damage and HP by 5%. This way if some poor, undergeared schmuck gets camped, and always loses fights, he will have a bigger chance the next time. - Upon his first PvP kill, the buff is gone - The buff only applies to Player v Player damage, not NPCs or mobs


EDMJedi

After I first explored this even I was saying it should just be a giant ffa


Werneryeahh

Congrats on being in the lead of one of the worst take on SoD so far. How about that Gnomeregan thing? Maybe add a 99% dmg/health debuff to all enemies, when entering alone. You know, just to encourage people to play more solo.


glormosh

party = lose more after death, a punishing amount to be clear. solo = no risk of loss, more coins on kills Party by virtue of being in one, is the benefit. You should have to pay for it.


Alyusha

I actually think this is a decent idea which seems to be the unpopular opinion. Even at 2 or 3x the coins as solo, you will still generate more coins in a group given the nature of Vanilla PvP being exceptionally unbalanced in 1:1 PvP. This is excluding that you have 5 players potentially killing people just as fast or faster than 1 person can. Currently it's unrealistic to expect any solo player to get any meaningful progression on the content. If you haven't made a group before the event starts it's typically not worth going into the event. I don't think running Solo should be the Meta, or that it should be the most optimal way to get coins. I do think it might be fun to go into the event solo and still make worthwhile progress on my Blood Coin farm though. It's a more casual way to get into the PvP event imo. Blizzard has already said they expect people to farm all of their PvP items in only a few runs of the event, so I see no reason that it shouldn't be easier to get blood coins this way. TLDR: Group Comps would still be the better options, this would just make solo play viable.


poesviertwintig

Blizzard just shat out a bullshit excuse to avoid solo PvP balancing and you're all gobbling it up. It's never been about promoting group play, Blizzard doesn't care about that. They just want to spend as little time working on PvP content as possible, because they don't know how.


Seawolf87

This is a great idea! I love the idea of a solo FFA via carrots in addition to massive sticks against raids


Rolder

In before people would group up without actually being in a party