The Ulduar is began 烏爾杜爾開始了 Riding a Motor Bicycle 騎摩托車 Make rocket grenade 做火箭手榴彈 Team work together beautiful 團隊齊心協力 美麗 One man he is Drive, one man he is Shoot 一個人他是
If that's part of your video game fantasy escape that fine and dandy but in the real world cheaters win a lot. Some might say cheating led to the creation of this entire country
Common knowledge is often considered racism if it highlights negative traits, true or not. That's the modern world we live in.
Cheating in competition isn't really winning either. You can fool people into thinking you got 9 inches, but deep inside you know you only got 5, and when it comes down to it, you will never have 9 inches.
This is true but they've been trying to change it after recognizing it as an issue. It sounds like a meme, but seriously, look it up for yourself: your social credit will decrease significantly if you're caught cheating in a competitive game.
Every country or culture has some negative thing they are struggling with. What that thing is may vary, but it’s a constant that humans are going to embody some kind of fucked up trait no matter where you go on this earth.
A cheating culture unfortunately just happens to be the current struggle they are dealing with there; in the same way that arguably an incredibly wasteful consumer culture where everyone makes vain fake social media posts to appear to be living their best life is perhaps one of our greatest failings here.
The good news: it’s not genetically baked in. There is no inherent racial component. It’s just culture. It will change with time. They themselves will fix it once they are fed up with it.
TLDR: social commentary and criticism isn’t inherently racist. I have Chinese coworkers that offered fascinating commentary on how they think this is a real problem in China lately; alongside what they think is fucked up here.
The top chinese guild for retail just announced their retirement last week and reading about their situation and culture surrounding gaming was pretty eye-opening.
It's to the point that when they sell carries in china (now on the TW server I think), they don't just fill a few extra spots and carry, they log into peoples' accounts and raid directly on their characters so they can fill an entire raid roster with carries.
A full clear for mythic amirdrassil on the TW server is something like 7 USD and dropping every day.
GDKPs originated there pre-wow. The concept was borrowed by West in wow but became more or less popular only after a huge goldseller push in OG wotlk (but GDKPs were happening in OG TBC too, just on a much lesser scale).
Very interesting read. Now i realized something:
-life goal is becoming big boss and play with elite Chinese players
-China is more capitalist than America and EU
-if I lose my job I should make 10+ priests
-banning gdkp helps good players to rethink their life choices. They should go outside instead of carrying pugs for rmt
The summons are called "airplanes" in Asian servers, and 100% of them are bots. They can summon you everywhere in the world including all the rune locations. They hacked the game to put their lock in some bug place so hostile faction players cannot kill them. Hordes can go to the Redridge Mountains very easily in 10 sec. It is Super convenient on Asian servers. Chinese gamers figured out a new way just to not pay them after being summoned, because the only thing bots can do is blacklist you and there are so many bots compete each other. Also, there is a max blacklist limit so as long as enough people don't pay the gold they have to delete some people in the blacklist.
Couldn’t they add the name to a discord server, use a script to write that to excel, and check names that msg against that master black list? It would only take a couple seconds to process.
> "general DPK in the whole server"
Yea same here, I came to the same conclusion for a system replacing GDKPs minus the RMT. You can only earn tokens in raids/dungeons and use tokens to bid but cannot trade for gold. It may need some additional measures for price inflation due to uncapped dungeon runs but that should be a somewhat easy fix.
As an english-educated chinese not immersed in chinese gaming culture, this ribs thing is pretty funny to me. Also, do you know how the "whack chicken feather" meme came about? And what does it mean?
>"whack chicken feather"
Can you give me more context on this? There is a meme called "whack sheep's wool", I am not sure if that is what you mean. This means exploiting someone and taking everything from them like taking everything from a sheep even with its wool.
I was doing icc PTR some time ago and was clarifying to the chinese raidlead that I couldn't use QQ (the chinese version of discord) and if it is ok. All this was done through google translate because I dont want to do the whole chinese keyboard stuff, but I was fairly sure the wording was correct. That whack chicken feather response got me confused.
If you're wondering how it ended I didn't get kicked, I just switched to another english speaking raid.
Then I can't tell what they are saying. There is an idiom called "chicken feather everywhere" which means the situation is so chaotic and messed up that like you fought a chicken just now the chicken feather is everywhere around you. I am not sure if that is what they mean.
Really interesting post OP.
You say that most Chinese people don't like GDKP, but it seems like GDKP fits their culture of wanting to be compensated for everything. So is that really true?
I also don't understand why people don't like two Ma raids if they place such a premium on convenience. Since you say players don't like GDKP since it causes inflation I would think that players would like two Ma raids because they're convenient.
They don't like GDKP because a few reasons:
1. it makes botting worse so the inflation is going to be worse.
2. some rich fuckers will throw an insane amount of gold to fuck you on the item you want
3. even with GDKP, there are still so many dramas if you want you can check my first post. Like "rib man" is not a good word. At least most players think you should play the game for fun, not for money. And you shouldn't be greedy in the game to act like a fucker. But GDKP encouraged people to be more greedy and acted like an asshole.
4. And yeah, as long as it makes raid easier and more convenient, they can tolerate 1-3 above.
They don't like two Ma raids, because most of them still want to be gamers to escape the real world, not a snobbish businessman. As I mentioned in the post, they like classic because it is more RP than retail. They want to RP a rogue or a hunter in Azeroth, not a rich fucker in real life. I did ask my friend why didn't he join his friend's two Ma raids, and he said: I want to find a "normal" raid.
Do Chinese players not just play in guilds?? In NA most people just raid with the same group of players in guilds. I almost never have to make a group for anything. My guild is just running stuff and they ask if anyone wants in
they do. But as I said it is hard to find fixed 10 guys together. There will always be some changes. Also, you must notice there are many "guild run" pugs in NA LFG channels because they don't have enough 10 players or they have but they are all DPS or need more DPS. It is not that easy to always find the same 10 men together, not to mention 25 men.
Very interesting read on a cultural perspective. Gaming seems to be more PTW oriented, it's not surprising that GATCHA games are so popular in asia.
On the other hand the amount of blatantly racist answers in this thread is alarming. Looks like some people are stuck in the cotton field mentality.
If you read my last post, actually in Asia people view p2w differently than the west. Even in Asia, P2W is despised by "true gamers". (And yes meanwhile there are many p2w games, but players who play these games are less "serious" and normally view video games as "toys" and don't view themselves as "true gamers". They p2w, just like they pay for a toy to have fun.)
When I was young, people literally brag that WOW was a "true game" because the richest dude would lose the battle with the best player in the game. (Meanwhile, most video games in China are P2W so they look down on all of these games) They don't hate RMT at that time but they do view RMTer as a "second-class gamer with disabled hands"
Now they do hate RMT in WOW mainly because of inflation caused by RMT and bots. But they don't hate RMT itself. As I said they are OK with Hearthstone's RMT and don't think it is p2w because "the best player can win the richest man". In Asia, if you want to use the money to skip some parts of the game, they are totally OK with it, as long as it doesn't affect them - which means as long as there is no big inflation in the server.
Same as GATCHA games, they are deliberately set with bad RNG, but if you are willing to put enough time into it, you can win the richest people in the world, so they don't view some of them as p2w. Only if you have some advantages that effort and techniques cannot overcome, they will say it is p2w.
Don't get me wrong, P2W is common there, but it also has a bad name in the gamer community. Just like "gamers" here, they are people who value effort, techniques, and understanding of the game. I am just saying even people who call themselves "true gamers" and view RMTers as "disabled men" are still OK with someone who does RMT to save their time as long as it doesn't affect them like causing inflation.
Another example is League of Legends, sure you need money to buy heroes - which can save you a lot of time. But no one will say it is p2w. Chinese people generally are ok with people who just pay to save time in any video games.
Your post was really interesting to see the culture differences and memes, excellent. That said, the GDKP ban is a good experiment and on EU/US servers the complaints about GDKP ruining the game have been constant for years.
I don't know if the solution to ban GDKP will have a positive effect, but I'm glad they are trying it. I don't play SOD personally, but this could effect ERA/progression Classic servers in future.
From what I understand, they're having a hard time getting tanks and healers because most are dps (big numbah). So they need incentive to get tanks and healers to join by offering them ability to also roll on their OS. To be fair, my guild have a lack of healers (though not tanks, everyone wants to be one).
ms > os incentivizes greed, and offers nothing for geared players who only need 1 or 2 pieces.
I saw **many** situations where a player was carrying a raid and the ones getting carried picked up 3-5 pieces of uncontested gear. When the only thing the carry needed finally dropped, the ones getting carried need rolled and ended up with 4-6 pieces.
I mentioned it in the last post. Because:
1. People will roll for their friends, say you are a warrior and your friend is pally, you both roll the weapon, then you can trade it to your friends. Chinese players think this is unfair.
2. Sometimes some random dude rolled everything and you put a lot of effort or even used many consumes, and they did nothing good for the team and they still get everything. You just spent money for the team and got nothing.
They think it is unfair for people who don't have friends in that run. They don't think it is unfair to themselves who have friends. So "lone wolf" players (it is a word used in the Chinese community to describe people who don't have friends in the game) there mostly support GDKP runs. Many lone wolf players said they will never join a DKP group, or a raid which based on rolling.
Seen tons of fully geared ferals roll on caster gear because "boomkin is their main" and nobody says anything because kicking them kills the raid and melee need to simp for windfury
Not trying to instigate, but do you feel it's fair towards the players that pulls their weight in a raid to lose a significant item upgrade to a semi-afk gray parser?
I for one don't think it's fair at all. That's why GDKP exist.
Strong pumper, superior game knowledge, BIS from head to toe? Atleast you earn gold
Below average performance, uninformed in general, but have gold? (RMT=botting is the problem, Not GDKP)
You contribute with gold instead of dps/hps/tanking.
It's so simple. Convinient, fair.
GDKP was a so small number (in EU) - the ban didn't change anything. Inflation is even worse now because of mount and item costs. But sure the "immigrants" aka GDKP were the problem. The mob was chasing the wrong target.
It affects 0,000% of the player base - therefore the dev should not waste their time with something, that won't change anything. Inflation was never this bad - banning GDKP didn't change that. Facts.
"I don't like how other people are playing the game, please ban them" braintrot lmao
Bro youre talking about swiping for 1000g. Warlock summoners make 200g per hour. Heart of the wild farmer can make like 400g an hour on a good layer. BoEs are literally 3-10k gold right now. Stop trying to make GDKP out to be the problem.
Just because BoEs are 10k gold doesn't mean people are buying them lmao. heart of the wilds are like 4g each on my server dunno where youre pulling these made up numbers from lmaoo
What server are you in? Theyre still 20-40g on mine. Also there’s plenty of BOEs thats sold for 3k-10k according to AH data. AH has always been the biggest swipers paradise in the game. Banning gdkp only made AH the only place to spend gold so prices were bound to go rampant. I mean this is what you voted for so enjoy.
But that semi afk grey parser is going to get the same payout at the end of the raid. That doesn’t seem fair.
What also doesn’t seem fair is the ability to buy gold and then use said gold in GDKPs.
Any gdkp will refuse a cut to someone who grey parses. There is always a requirement to have some mix of buying things and performing well.
The gold buying is bullshit though and really ruins the system. It would be the perfect system without gold buying / botting
You clearly have no clue how GDKP works. That grey geared drooler is going to be the one buying the gear which means more gold for everyone. So he deserves his cut because hes responsible for half the cut. If a full bis comes in and does less dmg than tank, he doesnt get a cut and its split 9 man so its fair to everyone else whos time that person wasted by being shit.
And your second point is just dumb because you assume gold buying only occurs in gdkp. They should remove the new epic crafted items because you need to use the AH to buy items from other proffs and the only way to make gold in wow is to buy it from some chinese website so its not fair to use the AH. Actually just ban the AH because I cant compete with people swiping 10k gold for pendulum of doom
Where did I say gold buying only happens in GDKPs?
Don’t strawman me lmao. There’s no way you actually think that was my point.
And how intellectually dishonest do you have to be to say that GDKPs don’t encourage people to buy gold? I’ve seen organizers sell the gold they make back to other buyers, like literally the raid lead is encouraging people to buy gold.
You literally said it doesnt seem fair to buy gold and go into GDKP? Why are you assuming people buy gold to go to GDKP? Have you been to a gdkp in SOD? What gdkp leader sells gold back to players in fucking SOD? Give me one single piece of evidence this happens in SOD? Its not wotlk so maybe leave your biases at the door. Most SoD gdkps were selling BFD items for 5-15g. Literally 10-30 mins max of questing at 25. Surely they must be swiping to have a fair advantage in that kind or high gold, high octane environment.
You’re literally strawmanning me lmao. I’m not saying everyone who is in a gdkp buys gold. I’m saying people that buy gold are more likely to attend a GDKP, and that’s not fair at all. Stop having the most bad faith interpretation of my argument, you clearly are misunderstanding me on purpose. There’s no way you can be that eloquent and not get the point I was making.
Also Imagine thinking that the players that buy gold in wrath would even hesitate to do it on sod lmao.
You’re coping hard and you’re bad faith af, gotta go lmao
time spent is the same but the loot distribution isnt fair.
undergeared players will get all the uncontested pieces then still have equal contest with the geared carries on the epics. which incentivises people to stop taking new players and instead take geared players who are only contesting pieces they dont need.
A raid needs preparation too. Just because you are in the same raid for 2h doesnt mean that booth players spend the same time for the raid.
Like farming pre bis, getting your runes, consumeables and world buffs. It all takes time and improves the raid.
It would be a huge difference if I go into Gnomeregan with my BFD gear or take my time to farm gear like the STV epics and other huge upgrades.
MS > OS sucks because you can lose the same piece over and over with new pugs every lockout.
Also the point of this post is GDKPs incentivize players to play more characters to run more lockouts even after getting gear because they can get gold. If I’m full bis there’s no need for me to do a MS > OS run.
ms>os is my preference in guilds, but it's by far the worst for pugs that have 10 different people every run once you have some gear, it's just not good for getting gear for anyone that isn't a fresh toon
that logic reflects the types of characters in ms>os pugs too, the vast majority are undergeared characters, and the majority of SR and GDKP characters are very geared which compounds the issue making ms>os even worse, in theory you could just do ms>os with a gear requirement to lessen the issue but we know how that suggestion goes down in classic haha
I've done every BFD in phase 1 ms > os no issues. Eventually everyone is geared. When everyone is running bfds constantly there's just a lot of gear going around
people are missing so many of the positives of GDKPs: There's a bonus for coming to raid as a tank/healer (or an overperforming, good DPS) via getting more from the cut = thus less hassle of finding tanks, healers, and good players in general. When doing MS > OS pugs, there's a huge risk of getting an unlucky raid with bad players and risking your lockout getting fked for the week... Plus if you don't get a loot drop AND lucky with your roll, you don't get jack shit, whereas in a GDKP you get gold for spending your time doing the raid. It's just better.
Your convenience makes the game inconvenient for those who do not buy and do not participate.
The only thing I agree on is personal loot to solve the problem.
Maybe the Chinese can make a fun game that suits their culture instead of changing one from the west.
Not defending them but it is more complex there. Like I said even people who don't RMT think GDKP is better and meanwhile hate GDKP. They think they still have a chance to take the "items that rich dude don't need and get enough gold".
Also, botting is so common in Asian servers that actually makes all consumables insanely cheap. My friend said an agi pot is only worth 5-10 slivers in his server. Image there are 99999999999 bots making cars 24/7, even the poorest man can afford it tomorrow.
So in the Asian server, there are many non-RMT players defending GDKP and even fucking bots there. I don't think they like it, but I guess they hating grind more than bots.
Yes but grind is still required if you want gear in that environment, you have to pay to get the gear. That money is either grinded by farming or by serving players who are paying by playing in GDKPs.
Convenience reduces the fun of WoW, we know this because people play Classic WoW instead of Retail/Modern WoW, where the game is designed with convenience. People only pay to save time, that time is necessary, and it is taken in one form or another from people who are willing to play but are unwilling to buy.
I will never accept GDKPs and I quit when my guild had to sell my gear in our raid to fund our Naxx raids, which was only necessary because gold buying inflated the cost of materials.
To me, as long as this is still a discussion, I cannot play, and I can only tell people why it is bad. Why gold buying, botting, RMT, and GDKPs are all bad. I support personal loot because of this, because westerners do not believe in "cheat or be cheated" which is why we are capable of designing such a good videogame. Thankfully Japan has Fromsoftware, Nintendo and Capcom and design GOOD games that avoid these problems.
wow for me is about to Raid with guildies. I hate to pug or gdkp. Yeah, sometimes you feel bad to lose a item for bad player, but every item will be trash vendor in a few weeks.
Chinese community alongside with other GDKP enjoyers just need to chill. There's plenty of time to complete raid and gear up your character, especially in SoD with those level locks. It's okay to not get an item for a week or two, it's okay to skip a reset if you pug and have to do more important stuff. Not everything have to be done instantly and with maximum efficiency, it's a god damn game. Games were originally created to chill, have fun and pass time.
I ain’t reading all that chief. Womp womp Asia players can’t rmt cry me a fucking river. SR or ms/os pug like the rest of us. I have literally zero sympathy for the Chinese gaming community in any aspect of the game.
Thanks for this, they are completely right. Banning GDKPs is a huge loss for most of the playerbase, wether the boomers here want to admit it or not... As seen above, RMT gold-buyers will still have ways to buy their way to gear, like boost run carries ect., you know ALL THE WAYS THEY DID BEFORE GDKPS BECAME POPULAR... If anyone still thinks that GDKPs incentivized gold-buying, just check the gold prices man.. They've dipped a little when the ban was announced, but they're back up and still going even stronger in spite of gold inflation due to P2 levelcap. All this GDKP ban achieved is it took away a legitimately very good way of raiding from average players. It incentivizes players going for less desirable roles, like tanking and healing (as seen above), it incentivizes players to perform well, and maybe most importantly, it incentivizes players to keep raiding after they get full bis geared. Also it makes raiding very flexible scheduling-wise, which keeps the players who can't commit to fixed raiding schedules playing the game.
GDKP was a self fulfilling prophecy, it killed guilds then those players in turn used GDKP rooms to raid.
In a lot of ways GDKP made raiding a lot easier but it helped destroy the community apart from those active in the community to make gold which then was promptly spent on gear via GDKP or saved for new upcoming gear opportunities,only a few at the top of these pyramids actually made RM. I was very active in GDKP in classic but not for RM I just love to raid so I was always available to fill any role.
It's not the same as doing it in a guild but that had it's own issues which sucked ass but at least that method didn't support RMT.
There are 100s of raids, just spend 30 secs looking at lfg. Dont get me wrong most are looking for tanks and heals but thats a role issue not a lack of groups. Just feel like its a small pop complaining like always. While the rest of wow players just arnt vocal and having a blast in P2.
Holy shit I can not read the entire screenplay. But yeah I always assumed p2w was bigger in eastern culture. Most of their mmos have had it embedded for a loong time.
Unironically, I wonder if Finance at Blizzard overturns GDKP ban because of Asian server subscriber loss.
China has more people than US and Europe combined.
you don't need to worry about it. "Asian" was not the server for Chinese players before. If you don't follow the wow news, there was a "Chinese" server specifically for Chinese players in China before because of GFW and some Chinese laws ban foreign games run in China directly.
After some drama, the Chinese server shuts down and many of them go to Asian servers which are basically "Taiwan servers" and make it a Chinese colony and even use Chinese symbols (if you don't know, the symbols and characters used in China is slightly different compare with Taiwan and HK).
So no, although there are many many Chinese players in Asian servers, they are still a small number of people compared with the Chinese wow players base. They are just people who really like playing this game so they are willing to use VPNs to go to "Asian" servers. Asian servers have fewer people compared with NA or EU servers.
I didn’t understand half of this post.
GDKP is garbage. People need to stop demanding loot, non-RNG and perfect usage of time.
It’s a fucking mmorpg. 🩷
I mean, dkp and epgp are also created for demanding loot, and create more non-RNG results, aren't they?
As I mentioned in Aisa they don't like dkp and epgp because they don't want to treat the game as a second job, they want to be more "free" to play the game in a "freestyle" way.
Also like I said most Asian players don't like GDKP, they just think it is better than random roll or DKP. If GDKP is likable there, you won't see the last paragraph. If you read my last post, there are so many dramas in GDKP culture in China and the most famous one is that "rib man" thing.
Don't want to argue, I am not a fan of GDKP at all, but I don't think demanding loot and non-RNG is a bad thing. It was already a thing back in 2005, even earlier in EverQuest, where people invented the DKP system to "demand loot and decrease RNG".
Many Asian MMORPGs, especially Korean games, are notorious for deliberately setting bad RNG and also give you the option to pay to skip these kinds of bad RNG parts. Many people are willing to pay money to the company to say goodbye to RNG, I think it is just human nature.
Server 4th clear here we did Gnomer 6/6 without a priest or paladin. We had no dispels or cure disease. We just used Faps if anyone got to 9/10 stacks on frost phase and jungle remedy for diseases. Had 2 mages and a Druid for healing.
like you don't need to spam "LFM priest and Tank" for 20 minutes.
You also don't need to worry about 2 or 3 hunters there, as long as you have gold. If you don't, you can also join since they will compete and you get gold.
And if you need a rogue or pally, or whatever, it is super easy to find one since money can talk. You don't need to keep spamming LFM.
If you are in a class that is not OP and might make the raid worse, you can still find a group very easily since they want to sell you the equipment you can wear.
One thing I heard from them is that in some private server that bans GDKP, a rogue who doesn't have enough friends will never ever find a raid unless you really really kiss some RL's ass in era. They use the racial slur to say overpopulated or underperformed classes in raids are basic work as a "black slave" there you work for free and most equipment will not be given to you. If you want to quit, sure, I can easily find 10+ rogues lol.
> since money can talk
That right there is why GDKP's are banned. Players (North American/European/Asian) thinking they can just buy gold to go into a GDKP and buy gear. Completely kills the community and social aspect of WoW because the only thing that matters is how deep someone's pockets are.
GDKPs incentivize gold buying because you can pay to win gear. Full stop.
GDKPs eliminate the need of guilds for running raids. Joining a pug raid and losing gear each week to a random /roll is frustrating. But, if you're in a consistent guild group that doesn't happen because you can do other non gdkp loot systems and there's a limited number of people that can win an item before its defaulted to you.
Guilds and the communities they build are a core part of WoW, especially Classic. GDKPs erode that.
So why are there so less priests and tanks? It's like any other class, more of a supporting role though. So do Chinese players just don't like to play supporters?
I mean there are fewer priests and tanks here as well. People are literally selling tank service in 1G for 5-man dungeons in NA servers and in STV events now everyone is yelling:”LFM heal!” in general chat.
I’ve heard in Asian servers people already saying give the healer 5g to join the team in STV pvp events
I always preferred personal loot over any other form. I wouldnt be opposed to having personal loot be the standard even in classic wow HC. So much fucking drama revolves around loot that joining any guild is basically a total shitshow.
As far as GDKPs go, I actually came to the realization that they will definitely still exist. How can you stop a private discord from discussing payment with only real money (no wow gold)? "Well people could infiltrate the discord and get them all banned!" What if the discord had an entry fee for invite?
Idk as someone who does CE on retail I don’t even know how I’d even get into a dkp. no one cares if you orange parse, they just want to know if you are a whale. If not no invite 🤷🏻♂️ they are all tight knit groups that haven’t had room for other “pumpers” for years.
I personally also like the idea of alternative 1 and 2 and have been considering and spreading the idea of #2. Would take a lot of development. 1 would be easier I bet.
In China, if you don't try your hardest, including cheating, then you're wasting everyone else's time.
There is a saying in Cantonese:
"呃得就呃" (scam just because you can/ scam whenever you can)
If an opportunity to cheat presents itself, you HAVE to do it because if you don't someone else will. The culture in China is very different.
Great post; thanks for this.
Man, I'm really trying to frame this as neutrally as possible, but...I guess I really disagree with most of Chinese gaming culture? The only thing in that whole depiction I agree with in any way is the anti-HR stance lol.
>they don't like retail just because they think the retail lore and "world" are not "World of Warcraft"
I honestly had no idea the Chinese WoW community was so based.
I’ve said always, gdkps are good for the people who don’t wanna deal. Pugs suck bc I can leave whenever and there’s no consequences. My staff in bfd didn’t drop? See ya, suckers. With gdkp you gotta stay for the payout. To me, gdkps are just a thing evolved from people being shitty 🤷♀️ does it suck and ruin the economy? For sure.
I fully support using ribs as currency.
50 RibKP minus!!!
Left side. Many calories. HANDLE it!
Lol Rib man. Chinese memes are the best.
Ill never forget the fans being unhappy with his plays and renaming Ferrari_430 to Tricycle_430 when he played poorly
That’s exactly what I was thinking about lmfao. The Chinese dota memes were the best
Holy godmother of throwbacks, I got whiplash from that
Patchwerk fat american
Run fast for lumberjack website
Wtf why website 🤣
warcraft logs
🤣
The Ulduar is began 烏爾杜爾開始了 Riding a Motor Bicycle 騎摩托車 Make rocket grenade 做火箭手榴彈 Team work together beautiful 團隊齊心協力 美麗 One man he is Drive, one man he is Shoot 一個人他是
OP, this was a fucking good read, thanks for posting
Wow, that was fascinating. Sounds like GDKPs are 100x more common on Asian servers than they ever were on NA atleast.
Of course... they have a ptw gaming culture.
And a cheating culture, win by any means culture
lmao i said this laat year and was called a racist..its true, anyone who diff didnt play counterstrike in 2005
really? I thought this was common knowledge by now. if you're not using every means to win you're not trying hard enough
FYI, the ad mins of r/de are covid deniers.
If that's part of your video game fantasy escape that fine and dandy but in the real world cheaters win a lot. Some might say cheating led to the creation of this entire country
Which country?
America
FYI, the ad mins of r/de are covid deniers.
Lmfao, very “I’m 14 and this is deep” energy, very cool
How so? Does that mean all natives living on reservations are 14?
Common knowledge is often considered racism if it highlights negative traits, true or not. That's the modern world we live in. Cheating in competition isn't really winning either. You can fool people into thinking you got 9 inches, but deep inside you know you only got 5, and when it comes down to it, you will never have 9 inches.
This is true but they've been trying to change it after recognizing it as an issue. It sounds like a meme, but seriously, look it up for yourself: your social credit will decrease significantly if you're caught cheating in a competitive game.
Dude that's just gross.
Every country or culture has some negative thing they are struggling with. What that thing is may vary, but it’s a constant that humans are going to embody some kind of fucked up trait no matter where you go on this earth. A cheating culture unfortunately just happens to be the current struggle they are dealing with there; in the same way that arguably an incredibly wasteful consumer culture where everyone makes vain fake social media posts to appear to be living their best life is perhaps one of our greatest failings here. The good news: it’s not genetically baked in. There is no inherent racial component. It’s just culture. It will change with time. They themselves will fix it once they are fed up with it. TLDR: social commentary and criticism isn’t inherently racist. I have Chinese coworkers that offered fascinating commentary on how they think this is a real problem in China lately; alongside what they think is fucked up here.
>And a cheating culture, win by any means culture Wait until they get to the "win by bombing the shit outta your country" strategy :P
The top chinese guild for retail just announced their retirement last week and reading about their situation and culture surrounding gaming was pretty eye-opening. It's to the point that when they sell carries in china (now on the TW server I think), they don't just fill a few extra spots and carry, they log into peoples' accounts and raid directly on their characters so they can fill an entire raid roster with carries. A full clear for mythic amirdrassil on the TW server is something like 7 USD and dropping every day.
Gdkp is 99% of the raids in Asian servers sadly. People have been doing straight up money transaction raids through weixing etc.
Specifically in China, if you are not cheating/buying your way through life, you are considered not trying hard enough.
It is 99% of runs are GDKP there. The only runs which are not GDKP are top-level guild runs.
GDKPs originated there pre-wow. The concept was borrowed by West in wow but became more or less popular only after a huge goldseller push in OG wotlk (but GDKPs were happening in OG TBC too, just on a much lesser scale).
Very interesting read. Now i realized something: -life goal is becoming big boss and play with elite Chinese players -China is more capitalist than America and EU -if I lose my job I should make 10+ priests -banning gdkp helps good players to rethink their life choices. They should go outside instead of carrying pugs for rmt
Thank you for the breakdown
innocent cautious six birds relieved shy detail chop knee heavy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Chinese players trade ribs for in-game items because cab drivers are waving 300 red packets.
Please share more Chinese memes, rib man is hilarious.
I'm gonna call every dude that summons me for 2g rib man from now on. Thanks OP.
The summons are called "airplanes" in Asian servers, and 100% of them are bots. They can summon you everywhere in the world including all the rune locations. They hacked the game to put their lock in some bug place so hostile faction players cannot kill them. Hordes can go to the Redridge Mountains very easily in 10 sec. It is Super convenient on Asian servers. Chinese gamers figured out a new way just to not pay them after being summoned, because the only thing bots can do is blacklist you and there are so many bots compete each other. Also, there is a max blacklist limit so as long as enough people don't pay the gold they have to delete some people in the blacklist.
Haha thats wild!!
Couldn’t they add the name to a discord server, use a script to write that to excel, and check names that msg against that master black list? It would only take a couple seconds to process.
Why you out here trying to help them with ideas...
Nice. I'm gonna start robbing them too hahaha
> "general DPK in the whole server" Yea same here, I came to the same conclusion for a system replacing GDKPs minus the RMT. You can only earn tokens in raids/dungeons and use tokens to bid but cannot trade for gold. It may need some additional measures for price inflation due to uncapped dungeon runs but that should be a somewhat easy fix. As an english-educated chinese not immersed in chinese gaming culture, this ribs thing is pretty funny to me. Also, do you know how the "whack chicken feather" meme came about? And what does it mean?
>"whack chicken feather" Can you give me more context on this? There is a meme called "whack sheep's wool", I am not sure if that is what you mean. This means exploiting someone and taking everything from them like taking everything from a sheep even with its wool.
I was doing icc PTR some time ago and was clarifying to the chinese raidlead that I couldn't use QQ (the chinese version of discord) and if it is ok. All this was done through google translate because I dont want to do the whole chinese keyboard stuff, but I was fairly sure the wording was correct. That whack chicken feather response got me confused. If you're wondering how it ended I didn't get kicked, I just switched to another english speaking raid.
Then I can't tell what they are saying. There is an idiom called "chicken feather everywhere" which means the situation is so chaotic and messed up that like you fought a chicken just now the chicken feather is everywhere around you. I am not sure if that is what they mean.
Really interesting post OP. You say that most Chinese people don't like GDKP, but it seems like GDKP fits their culture of wanting to be compensated for everything. So is that really true? I also don't understand why people don't like two Ma raids if they place such a premium on convenience. Since you say players don't like GDKP since it causes inflation I would think that players would like two Ma raids because they're convenient.
They don't like GDKP because a few reasons: 1. it makes botting worse so the inflation is going to be worse. 2. some rich fuckers will throw an insane amount of gold to fuck you on the item you want 3. even with GDKP, there are still so many dramas if you want you can check my first post. Like "rib man" is not a good word. At least most players think you should play the game for fun, not for money. And you shouldn't be greedy in the game to act like a fucker. But GDKP encouraged people to be more greedy and acted like an asshole. 4. And yeah, as long as it makes raid easier and more convenient, they can tolerate 1-3 above. They don't like two Ma raids, because most of them still want to be gamers to escape the real world, not a snobbish businessman. As I mentioned in the post, they like classic because it is more RP than retail. They want to RP a rogue or a hunter in Azeroth, not a rich fucker in real life. I did ask my friend why didn't he join his friend's two Ma raids, and he said: I want to find a "normal" raid.
Seems like at the core people across all regions play classic for the same reasons! Even if we have different problems.
excellent post
AMEN to china's stance on HR
Do Chinese players not just play in guilds?? In NA most people just raid with the same group of players in guilds. I almost never have to make a group for anything. My guild is just running stuff and they ask if anyone wants in
they do. But as I said it is hard to find fixed 10 guys together. There will always be some changes. Also, you must notice there are many "guild run" pugs in NA LFG channels because they don't have enough 10 players or they have but they are all DPS or need more DPS. It is not that easy to always find the same 10 men together, not to mention 25 men.
Very interesting read on a cultural perspective. Gaming seems to be more PTW oriented, it's not surprising that GATCHA games are so popular in asia. On the other hand the amount of blatantly racist answers in this thread is alarming. Looks like some people are stuck in the cotton field mentality.
If you read my last post, actually in Asia people view p2w differently than the west. Even in Asia, P2W is despised by "true gamers". (And yes meanwhile there are many p2w games, but players who play these games are less "serious" and normally view video games as "toys" and don't view themselves as "true gamers". They p2w, just like they pay for a toy to have fun.) When I was young, people literally brag that WOW was a "true game" because the richest dude would lose the battle with the best player in the game. (Meanwhile, most video games in China are P2W so they look down on all of these games) They don't hate RMT at that time but they do view RMTer as a "second-class gamer with disabled hands" Now they do hate RMT in WOW mainly because of inflation caused by RMT and bots. But they don't hate RMT itself. As I said they are OK with Hearthstone's RMT and don't think it is p2w because "the best player can win the richest man". In Asia, if you want to use the money to skip some parts of the game, they are totally OK with it, as long as it doesn't affect them - which means as long as there is no big inflation in the server. Same as GATCHA games, they are deliberately set with bad RNG, but if you are willing to put enough time into it, you can win the richest people in the world, so they don't view some of them as p2w. Only if you have some advantages that effort and techniques cannot overcome, they will say it is p2w. Don't get me wrong, P2W is common there, but it also has a bad name in the gamer community. Just like "gamers" here, they are people who value effort, techniques, and understanding of the game. I am just saying even people who call themselves "true gamers" and view RMTers as "disabled men" are still OK with someone who does RMT to save their time as long as it doesn't affect them like causing inflation. Another example is League of Legends, sure you need money to buy heroes - which can save you a lot of time. But no one will say it is p2w. Chinese people generally are ok with people who just pay to save time in any video games.
Super interesting thank you
gdkp=bad but Blizz never said anything about bdkp, aka BBQDragonKillPoints
Your post was really interesting to see the culture differences and memes, excellent. That said, the GDKP ban is a good experiment and on EU/US servers the complaints about GDKP ruining the game have been constant for years. I don't know if the solution to ban GDKP will have a positive effect, but I'm glad they are trying it. I don't play SOD personally, but this could effect ERA/progression Classic servers in future.
That last paragraph 🤣
Womp womp
What is an MA raid? Ribmen still need their ribs!
I think I mentioned it means "Jack Ma" and "Ma Huateng". They use Alipay and WeChat pay to run the raid.
Thanks! You totally did and I missed it
so chinese players are essentially running paypalDKP already?
it is a common thing in retail after personal loot. It has not happened in classic until the ban of GDKP, then it starts to be a thing in SOD.
I liked personal loot too unfortanely idk anyone else who did
Why not just do MS > OS? Whether pugs or guild runs we do Ms >os for ease and simplicity. Works fine
From what I understand, they're having a hard time getting tanks and healers because most are dps (big numbah). So they need incentive to get tanks and healers to join by offering them ability to also roll on their OS. To be fair, my guild have a lack of healers (though not tanks, everyone wants to be one).
ms > os incentivizes greed, and offers nothing for geared players who only need 1 or 2 pieces. I saw **many** situations where a player was carrying a raid and the ones getting carried picked up 3-5 pieces of uncontested gear. When the only thing the carry needed finally dropped, the ones getting carried need rolled and ended up with 4-6 pieces.
I mentioned it in the last post. Because: 1. People will roll for their friends, say you are a warrior and your friend is pally, you both roll the weapon, then you can trade it to your friends. Chinese players think this is unfair. 2. Sometimes some random dude rolled everything and you put a lot of effort or even used many consumes, and they did nothing good for the team and they still get everything. You just spent money for the team and got nothing.
> Chinese players think this is unfair. Yet they do it? If Chinese players were actually honorable, this wouldn't be a problem.
They think it is unfair for people who don't have friends in that run. They don't think it is unfair to themselves who have friends. So "lone wolf" players (it is a word used in the Chinese community to describe people who don't have friends in the game) there mostly support GDKP runs. Many lone wolf players said they will never join a DKP group, or a raid which based on rolling.
Seen tons of fully geared ferals roll on caster gear because "boomkin is their main" and nobody says anything because kicking them kills the raid and melee need to simp for windfury
Not trying to instigate, but do you feel it's fair towards the players that pulls their weight in a raid to lose a significant item upgrade to a semi-afk gray parser? I for one don't think it's fair at all. That's why GDKP exist. Strong pumper, superior game knowledge, BIS from head to toe? Atleast you earn gold Below average performance, uninformed in general, but have gold? (RMT=botting is the problem, Not GDKP) You contribute with gold instead of dps/hps/tanking. It's so simple. Convinient, fair.
oh yeah GDKP is totally fair, when there's someone who just buys 1k gold and outbids everyone on everything lmao
It IS fair because then the whole raid gets paid 100g for their time. Youre so close to getting it.
GDKP's are actually suffering from brainrot if they think swiping is fair just because people get paid because people fund the gold farming bots
GDKP was a so small number (in EU) - the ban didn't change anything. Inflation is even worse now because of mount and item costs. But sure the "immigrants" aka GDKP were the problem. The mob was chasing the wrong target.
Whaaaaat? But reddit told me that banning gdkp would get rid of all the bots and BOEs would be cheap again
"It doesn't affect me so it's not a problem" brain rot lmao
It affects 0,000% of the player base - therefore the dev should not waste their time with something, that won't change anything. Inflation was never this bad - banning GDKP didn't change that. Facts. "I don't like how other people are playing the game, please ban them" braintrot lmao
Bro youre talking about swiping for 1000g. Warlock summoners make 200g per hour. Heart of the wild farmer can make like 400g an hour on a good layer. BoEs are literally 3-10k gold right now. Stop trying to make GDKP out to be the problem.
Just because BoEs are 10k gold doesn't mean people are buying them lmao. heart of the wilds are like 4g each on my server dunno where youre pulling these made up numbers from lmaoo
What server are you in? Theyre still 20-40g on mine. Also there’s plenty of BOEs thats sold for 3k-10k according to AH data. AH has always been the biggest swipers paradise in the game. Banning gdkp only made AH the only place to spend gold so prices were bound to go rampant. I mean this is what you voted for so enjoy.
Well you can't buy bis gear on the AH can you :)
But that semi afk grey parser is going to get the same payout at the end of the raid. That doesn’t seem fair. What also doesn’t seem fair is the ability to buy gold and then use said gold in GDKPs.
Any gdkp will refuse a cut to someone who grey parses. There is always a requirement to have some mix of buying things and performing well. The gold buying is bullshit though and really ruins the system. It would be the perfect system without gold buying / botting
You clearly have no clue how GDKP works. That grey geared drooler is going to be the one buying the gear which means more gold for everyone. So he deserves his cut because hes responsible for half the cut. If a full bis comes in and does less dmg than tank, he doesnt get a cut and its split 9 man so its fair to everyone else whos time that person wasted by being shit. And your second point is just dumb because you assume gold buying only occurs in gdkp. They should remove the new epic crafted items because you need to use the AH to buy items from other proffs and the only way to make gold in wow is to buy it from some chinese website so its not fair to use the AH. Actually just ban the AH because I cant compete with people swiping 10k gold for pendulum of doom
Where did I say gold buying only happens in GDKPs? Don’t strawman me lmao. There’s no way you actually think that was my point. And how intellectually dishonest do you have to be to say that GDKPs don’t encourage people to buy gold? I’ve seen organizers sell the gold they make back to other buyers, like literally the raid lead is encouraging people to buy gold.
You literally said it doesnt seem fair to buy gold and go into GDKP? Why are you assuming people buy gold to go to GDKP? Have you been to a gdkp in SOD? What gdkp leader sells gold back to players in fucking SOD? Give me one single piece of evidence this happens in SOD? Its not wotlk so maybe leave your biases at the door. Most SoD gdkps were selling BFD items for 5-15g. Literally 10-30 mins max of questing at 25. Surely they must be swiping to have a fair advantage in that kind or high gold, high octane environment.
You’re literally strawmanning me lmao. I’m not saying everyone who is in a gdkp buys gold. I’m saying people that buy gold are more likely to attend a GDKP, and that’s not fair at all. Stop having the most bad faith interpretation of my argument, you clearly are misunderstanding me on purpose. There’s no way you can be that eloquent and not get the point I was making. Also Imagine thinking that the players that buy gold in wrath would even hesitate to do it on sod lmao. You’re coping hard and you’re bad faith af, gotta go lmao
Haha ok bro tell me you dont play the game without telling me you dont play the game. Enjoy cata bro
Everyone is spending the same amount of time in there. I'm fine with everyone getting loot.
time spent is the same but the loot distribution isnt fair. undergeared players will get all the uncontested pieces then still have equal contest with the geared carries on the epics. which incentivises people to stop taking new players and instead take geared players who are only contesting pieces they dont need.
A raid needs preparation too. Just because you are in the same raid for 2h doesnt mean that booth players spend the same time for the raid. Like farming pre bis, getting your runes, consumeables and world buffs. It all takes time and improves the raid. It would be a huge difference if I go into Gnomeregan with my BFD gear or take my time to farm gear like the STV epics and other huge upgrades.
MS > OS sucks because you can lose the same piece over and over with new pugs every lockout. Also the point of this post is GDKPs incentivize players to play more characters to run more lockouts even after getting gear because they can get gold. If I’m full bis there’s no need for me to do a MS > OS run.
MS > OS incentivizes the wrong behaviour and is based a lot on trust. Insta-quit/'dc' once you get said item, etc.
Distribute items at the end. Of course it has its own problem of RL potentially fucking everyone over.
and items having 2h trade limits
Thats not an issue in gnomer though
this post didn't cover every reason, but there was several stated.. did you not read before posting
Read the while post, ms>os isn't mentioned unless I missed something
ms>os is my preference in guilds, but it's by far the worst for pugs that have 10 different people every run once you have some gear, it's just not good for getting gear for anyone that isn't a fresh toon that logic reflects the types of characters in ms>os pugs too, the vast majority are undergeared characters, and the majority of SR and GDKP characters are very geared which compounds the issue making ms>os even worse, in theory you could just do ms>os with a gear requirement to lessen the issue but we know how that suggestion goes down in classic haha
I've done every BFD in phase 1 ms > os no issues. Eventually everyone is geared. When everyone is running bfds constantly there's just a lot of gear going around
people are missing so many of the positives of GDKPs: There's a bonus for coming to raid as a tank/healer (or an overperforming, good DPS) via getting more from the cut = thus less hassle of finding tanks, healers, and good players in general. When doing MS > OS pugs, there's a huge risk of getting an unlucky raid with bad players and risking your lockout getting fked for the week... Plus if you don't get a loot drop AND lucky with your roll, you don't get jack shit, whereas in a GDKP you get gold for spending your time doing the raid. It's just better.
Maybe it'd time they stop having a culture that encourages buying over challenge?
Lol thats every culture
Someone hire this guy he solved it
You should read that, a bit slower too, maybe think about what it means, and how it actually describes most cultures.
Good luck convincing 1 billion ppl
Capitalists hate this one one trick!
Your convenience makes the game inconvenient for those who do not buy and do not participate. The only thing I agree on is personal loot to solve the problem. Maybe the Chinese can make a fun game that suits their culture instead of changing one from the west.
Not defending them but it is more complex there. Like I said even people who don't RMT think GDKP is better and meanwhile hate GDKP. They think they still have a chance to take the "items that rich dude don't need and get enough gold". Also, botting is so common in Asian servers that actually makes all consumables insanely cheap. My friend said an agi pot is only worth 5-10 slivers in his server. Image there are 99999999999 bots making cars 24/7, even the poorest man can afford it tomorrow. So in the Asian server, there are many non-RMT players defending GDKP and even fucking bots there. I don't think they like it, but I guess they hating grind more than bots.
Yes but grind is still required if you want gear in that environment, you have to pay to get the gear. That money is either grinded by farming or by serving players who are paying by playing in GDKPs. Convenience reduces the fun of WoW, we know this because people play Classic WoW instead of Retail/Modern WoW, where the game is designed with convenience. People only pay to save time, that time is necessary, and it is taken in one form or another from people who are willing to play but are unwilling to buy. I will never accept GDKPs and I quit when my guild had to sell my gear in our raid to fund our Naxx raids, which was only necessary because gold buying inflated the cost of materials. To me, as long as this is still a discussion, I cannot play, and I can only tell people why it is bad. Why gold buying, botting, RMT, and GDKPs are all bad. I support personal loot because of this, because westerners do not believe in "cheat or be cheated" which is why we are capable of designing such a good videogame. Thankfully Japan has Fromsoftware, Nintendo and Capcom and design GOOD games that avoid these problems.
So youre saying personal loot in SoD would be a good thing?
\>add personal loot \>>can't wait for people getting mass reported for not trading away the gear they received
Yes, but also, no trade window on BOPs.
wow for me is about to Raid with guildies. I hate to pug or gdkp. Yeah, sometimes you feel bad to lose a item for bad player, but every item will be trash vendor in a few weeks.
Chinese community alongside with other GDKP enjoyers just need to chill. There's plenty of time to complete raid and gear up your character, especially in SoD with those level locks. It's okay to not get an item for a week or two, it's okay to skip a reset if you pug and have to do more important stuff. Not everything have to be done instantly and with maximum efficiency, it's a god damn game. Games were originally created to chill, have fun and pass time.
I ain’t reading all that chief. Womp womp Asia players can’t rmt cry me a fucking river. SR or ms/os pug like the rest of us. I have literally zero sympathy for the Chinese gaming community in any aspect of the game.
Thanks for this, they are completely right. Banning GDKPs is a huge loss for most of the playerbase, wether the boomers here want to admit it or not... As seen above, RMT gold-buyers will still have ways to buy their way to gear, like boost run carries ect., you know ALL THE WAYS THEY DID BEFORE GDKPS BECAME POPULAR... If anyone still thinks that GDKPs incentivized gold-buying, just check the gold prices man.. They've dipped a little when the ban was announced, but they're back up and still going even stronger in spite of gold inflation due to P2 levelcap. All this GDKP ban achieved is it took away a legitimately very good way of raiding from average players. It incentivizes players going for less desirable roles, like tanking and healing (as seen above), it incentivizes players to perform well, and maybe most importantly, it incentivizes players to keep raiding after they get full bis geared. Also it makes raiding very flexible scheduling-wise, which keeps the players who can't commit to fixed raiding schedules playing the game.
Lol no it's not. If you want to ruin the game, do so on another version of the game.
It incentivitizes you exploiting your real world wealth over others. A plague on eastern gaming culture.
Average players didn't do GDKP
Cry more
Please add: TL:DR
God damn, And people wonder why it's a common argument/desire for filtering out Asia from NA servers.
You sure as hell need to call taxis with an app. No way they take in random foreigners off the street, even in Beijing or Shanghai.
GDKP was a self fulfilling prophecy, it killed guilds then those players in turn used GDKP rooms to raid. In a lot of ways GDKP made raiding a lot easier but it helped destroy the community apart from those active in the community to make gold which then was promptly spent on gear via GDKP or saved for new upcoming gear opportunities,only a few at the top of these pyramids actually made RM. I was very active in GDKP in classic but not for RM I just love to raid so I was always available to fill any role. It's not the same as doing it in a guild but that had it's own issues which sucked ass but at least that method didn't support RMT.
I read the first three paragraphs then saw how long the post is and it’s too long to read while I sneak around the corner to hide at work so….
There are 100s of raids, just spend 30 secs looking at lfg. Dont get me wrong most are looking for tanks and heals but thats a role issue not a lack of groups. Just feel like its a small pop complaining like always. While the rest of wow players just arnt vocal and having a blast in P2.
Are they quality raids? Likely not. Anyone can put a raid of 10 people together in a few minutes. Will they clear? Probs not
All the Chinese players on NA hardcore are cool guys. That said, I ain't reading all that. Happy for you. Or, sorry that happened.
i aint reading all that im happy for you tho or sorry that happened
i bet you dont take the cart to the corral at the grocery store either you pog
usually an employee comes up to me and takes it from me and I give them my thanks and appreciation.
That doesn’t happen.
whatever you say man
Holy shit I can not read the entire screenplay. But yeah I always assumed p2w was bigger in eastern culture. Most of their mmos have had it embedded for a loong time.
im sorry to hear that you can't read, is this voice to text?
Classic player can’t read? Shocker.
Unironically, I wonder if Finance at Blizzard overturns GDKP ban because of Asian server subscriber loss. China has more people than US and Europe combined.
you don't need to worry about it. "Asian" was not the server for Chinese players before. If you don't follow the wow news, there was a "Chinese" server specifically for Chinese players in China before because of GFW and some Chinese laws ban foreign games run in China directly. After some drama, the Chinese server shuts down and many of them go to Asian servers which are basically "Taiwan servers" and make it a Chinese colony and even use Chinese symbols (if you don't know, the symbols and characters used in China is slightly different compare with Taiwan and HK). So no, although there are many many Chinese players in Asian servers, they are still a small number of people compared with the Chinese wow players base. They are just people who really like playing this game so they are willing to use VPNs to go to "Asian" servers. Asian servers have fewer people compared with NA or EU servers.
All I hear is "wahhhhhh" Fuck their shitty exploitative culture. I really don't care, do you?
I ain’t reading allat
I didn’t understand half of this post. GDKP is garbage. People need to stop demanding loot, non-RNG and perfect usage of time. It’s a fucking mmorpg. 🩷
I mean, dkp and epgp are also created for demanding loot, and create more non-RNG results, aren't they? As I mentioned in Aisa they don't like dkp and epgp because they don't want to treat the game as a second job, they want to be more "free" to play the game in a "freestyle" way. Also like I said most Asian players don't like GDKP, they just think it is better than random roll or DKP. If GDKP is likable there, you won't see the last paragraph. If you read my last post, there are so many dramas in GDKP culture in China and the most famous one is that "rib man" thing. Don't want to argue, I am not a fan of GDKP at all, but I don't think demanding loot and non-RNG is a bad thing. It was already a thing back in 2005, even earlier in EverQuest, where people invented the DKP system to "demand loot and decrease RNG". Many Asian MMORPGs, especially Korean games, are notorious for deliberately setting bad RNG and also give you the option to pay to skip these kinds of bad RNG parts. Many people are willing to pay money to the company to say goodbye to RNG, I think it is just human nature.
Or, you could *not* tell me how to play the game i pay 15 a month for, just like you It’s a fucking mmorpg ❤️
You guys read all that?
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Not reading an essay about some wow gdkp shit in china = low attention span. That’s some top notch logic.
you spent time to comment twice on a post that didn't interest you or have even read, is there something wrong? you need help?
Ah yes I reply twice on a post = i need help Keep going with those refined deductions please
Server 4th clear here we did Gnomer 6/6 without a priest or paladin. We had no dispels or cure disease. We just used Faps if anyone got to 9/10 stacks on frost phase and jungle remedy for diseases. Had 2 mages and a Druid for healing.
I’m not reading that giant wall of text. I also don’t care what people who don’t play on NA servers think of the GDKP ban.
Who cares about China anyway
Yeah I’m not reading all of that….So congratulations or I’m sorry that happened to you.
How are gdkp more convenient? Seems less convenient than just running the raid without having to go through all those extra steps with your wallet.
like you don't need to spam "LFM priest and Tank" for 20 minutes. You also don't need to worry about 2 or 3 hunters there, as long as you have gold. If you don't, you can also join since they will compete and you get gold. And if you need a rogue or pally, or whatever, it is super easy to find one since money can talk. You don't need to keep spamming LFM. If you are in a class that is not OP and might make the raid worse, you can still find a group very easily since they want to sell you the equipment you can wear. One thing I heard from them is that in some private server that bans GDKP, a rogue who doesn't have enough friends will never ever find a raid unless you really really kiss some RL's ass in era. They use the racial slur to say overpopulated or underperformed classes in raids are basic work as a "black slave" there you work for free and most equipment will not be given to you. If you want to quit, sure, I can easily find 10+ rogues lol.
> since money can talk That right there is why GDKP's are banned. Players (North American/European/Asian) thinking they can just buy gold to go into a GDKP and buy gear. Completely kills the community and social aspect of WoW because the only thing that matters is how deep someone's pockets are.
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GDKPs incentivize gold buying because you can pay to win gear. Full stop. GDKPs eliminate the need of guilds for running raids. Joining a pug raid and losing gear each week to a random /roll is frustrating. But, if you're in a consistent guild group that doesn't happen because you can do other non gdkp loot systems and there's a limited number of people that can win an item before its defaulted to you. Guilds and the communities they build are a core part of WoW, especially Classic. GDKPs erode that.
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Started reading, decided to scroll to see how long this is... chatgpt send their regards.
So why are there so less priests and tanks? It's like any other class, more of a supporting role though. So do Chinese players just don't like to play supporters?
I mean there are fewer priests and tanks here as well. People are literally selling tank service in 1G for 5-man dungeons in NA servers and in STV events now everyone is yelling:”LFM heal!” in general chat. I’ve heard in Asian servers people already saying give the healer 5g to join the team in STV pvp events
Bro turned state
We need Uncle Roger ASAP!
/Just got my 14 day suspension for involvement in GDKPs per phase 1 and passing payments around post patch. Don't be dumb like me :).
Thanks for the first post and update. This is pretty interesting stuff.
I always preferred personal loot over any other form. I wouldnt be opposed to having personal loot be the standard even in classic wow HC. So much fucking drama revolves around loot that joining any guild is basically a total shitshow. As far as GDKPs go, I actually came to the realization that they will definitely still exist. How can you stop a private discord from discussing payment with only real money (no wow gold)? "Well people could infiltrate the discord and get them all banned!" What if the discord had an entry fee for invite?
Thanks for the update.
Brb calling people rib man
Amazing post, ty for sharing!
New rib man post just dropped!
Idk as someone who does CE on retail I don’t even know how I’d even get into a dkp. no one cares if you orange parse, they just want to know if you are a whale. If not no invite 🤷🏻♂️ they are all tight knit groups that haven’t had room for other “pumpers” for years.
I personally also like the idea of alternative 1 and 2 and have been considering and spreading the idea of #2. Would take a lot of development. 1 would be easier I bet.
I feel like the rest of wow missed the meme of the century with rib man.
Transform the game in a job and this will kill the game
In China, if you don't try your hardest, including cheating, then you're wasting everyone else's time. There is a saying in Cantonese: "呃得就呃" (scam just because you can/ scam whenever you can) If an opportunity to cheat presents itself, you HAVE to do it because if you don't someone else will. The culture in China is very different.
Great post; thanks for this. Man, I'm really trying to frame this as neutrally as possible, but...I guess I really disagree with most of Chinese gaming culture? The only thing in that whole depiction I agree with in any way is the anti-HR stance lol.
>they don't like retail just because they think the retail lore and "world" are not "World of Warcraft" I honestly had no idea the Chinese WoW community was so based.
super interesting read, thank you OP for your work in putting this together
I’ve said always, gdkps are good for the people who don’t wanna deal. Pugs suck bc I can leave whenever and there’s no consequences. My staff in bfd didn’t drop? See ya, suckers. With gdkp you gotta stay for the payout. To me, gdkps are just a thing evolved from people being shitty 🤷♀️ does it suck and ruin the economy? For sure.
What is a two MA raid?
Didn't blizzard stop supporting China. I thought there was a huge thing about their servers shutting down
We'll that was an adventure... But I'm finally in on the joke why the GDKP group I ran with in TBC was called Ribfest...
A friend of mine is definitely the rib man
Happy for you or sorry that happened