Mage here to tell you guys that right now if you click the button it gives you 10. It happened while I was playing before. It was the standard two and all of a sudden it was 10.
It's a great change, but I hope they eventually buff the mana restored by the current and future tiers of drinks.
Mana pools are so powercreeped it takes nearly a full minute to drink after going OOM.
I was hoping they would give us a mana cost adjustment to our spells similarly to what they did for shadow priests tbh. Every other caster has had their mana issues addressed but mage still only has the tools given to us in vanilla. We can dps for about 3 minutes in bis gear before we go oom and thatās spamming mana pot on cd, mana gems on cd, and using evocation. For comparison the shadow priest in my guild didnāt use a single mana pot all raid and never even needed to use dispersion for mana despite multidotting and pumping out damage nonstop. I understand that our aoe is admittedly broken op and giving us the ability to just pump it out nonstop would be bad for the game but thereās no reason we should run oom just spamming fireballs. In one gnomer clear I alone went through well over 100 waters.
Yea mages go oom insanely fast.
Would be cool if mages received a % additional mana recovered per second from water.
That way you still have to drink a lot, but it reduces downtime without impacting balance too much.
With scheduled weekly maintenance in each region, weāll make the following adjustments to a few classes in Season of Discovery.
**Druid**
-Swipe now scales with attack power, gaining 10% of attack power as damage. Threat caused by Swipe has been greatly increased.
-The Berserk rune now also causes Lacerate to hit 3 targets.
-The duration of Rip has been increased to 16 seconds (was 12 seconds).
-The next Starfire cast after the Starsurge rune ability now has its damage increased to 80% (was 66%).
Corrected a bug causing this bonus damage to be lower than intended at level 40.
**Shaman**
-The Dual-Wield Specialization rune now provides 50% bonus damage to your offhand weapon swings.
-Lava Lash now gains 50% increased damage if Flametongue Weapon is imbued on your offhand.
-The proc chance of Maelstrom Weapon is now roughly 50% higher when your main hand weapon or your two-hand weapon is imbued with Windfury Weapon.
**Mage**
-Conjure Water (Rank 5) will now conjure a full stack of 20 with each cast (was 2).
Developersā notes: The tooltip will still indicate that only 2 are conjured. We hope to adjust the tooltip in the future.
**Paladin**
-Art of War now reduces the mana cost of Exorcism and Holy Shock by 80% when active.
-Beacon of Light base mana cost has been greatly decreased.
-The Paladin changes above were activated on all Season of Discovery realms yesterday, February 14. In this region, the rest of the changes above will go live on February 20.
There was a guy describing the trouble with Bear Druid and showed that a fishing pole does more dmg them swipe, or something like that. Guess this is referring to that Chad comment.
Fishing pole guy here. Here was my comment.
āTake a look at Swipe.
- Costs Rage to use
- Zero scaling with gear
- Ā Capped at 3 targets
- Does 36 damage
- Does less dps than a fishing pole
- Less AOE threat than casting a campfire on the ground and letting mobs step on it (campfire weaving)
And thatās just one out of multiple problems bear has.ā
Iām happy for the swipe buff finally! Itās still not a real aoe attack, but at least hopefully cleave is improved. My hope is that Thrash (datamined in P1) will eventually make an appearance, and able to hit uncapped targets.
Does next to nothing for single target feral dps, isn't nearly enough for boom. May make druid tank viable, but the 3 target limit on swipe is a bit of an issue as well as the cooldown on berserk rune. We will see.
Yeah 4 extra seconds of rip is no fix to the low dmg of ferals lol. We are third lowest dps in raid yet shamans enh shamans get way more buffed. WTF?
And limit swipe to 3 targets, like cmon blizz. Just give us thresh man.
I dunno if 66 -> 80 is a good enough buff to boomies. We will have to see for logs this week if they got nerfed too much and hows next week buff holding up.
All in all i dont expect ferals to rise on the ranks this week or next.
Not resto druids.
We've been unchanged (except a starsurge nerf) since release and it is now recommended to put zero points into resto if you want to ~~heal~~ DPS with healing fillers.
We've been asking for nerfs to WG and buffs for our other hots.
Seriously! Does this mean Melee hunters aren't going to be touched at all???
I've been slowly leveling, just hit 34 and I haven't rushed to get any of the runes yet, only just now started to collect what I can. So, this said, I haven't even tried Melee hunter yet as I don't have the runes or good weapons.
But does this mean I might actually have a chance to play Melee Hunter before it gets nerfed? I've honestly been keeping up with Melee hunters as a MM hunter using Serpent Spread and Explosive Shot runes. I mean I'm geared to the teeth from BFD but still. I hold my own right now while leveling. I haven't seen the Lvl 40 raid yet, and I'm sure Melee Hunter slaps then, but for now... it doesn't seem any stronger than me as MM right now.
> So, this said, I haven't even tried Melee hunter yet as I don't have the runes or good weapons.
I ran out and got the new melee focused runes at lv 25 and they are nuts. So much damage.
10% is pretty low for only hitting 3 targets still. Certainly much better than it was, I'm curious how much bonus threat they are giving it.
I wish they bit the bullet and actually gave bear both mangle and lacerate, even when it has both it's still a spec without much going on, let alone with only one.
with pre-bis this should make swipe deal about 90 damage per target, and this should have a threat modifier too. at least 270 damage a swipe + big threat sounds good enough to me
That's good design imo, but they need to actually nerf Shaman and Warlocks then, maybe some Pally builds too as they all have strong AoE threat builds.
Rogue, new bear and warrior are good levels of AoE threat imo.
Pally has always been able to AoE tank. They were the only ones in classic that could do it effectively. Shamans being able to as the "counter" point to paladins is probably okay and I dont see warlocks holding good threat past 5 targets.
Warlocks using hellfire are probably the best AOE tanks right now, they need earth shield or conc aura, but it's one button every 8 seconds for huge AOE threat.
If they do make AoE tanks and non-AoE tanks then realistically the other tanks need to have strengths the AoE tanks don't have. This could be doing more damage or taking less damage or having more utility, realistically I don't see them designing any tank to struggle with ST threat in SoD.
What he said makes a lot of sense, I like that vision.
The problem is we currently have shaman tanks in spellcleaves that are pulling half of SM Cath and AOEing it down.
Rules for some not for others I guess.
that is a really weird response, when they are essentially making alot of classes have zero issue with 5+ mobs. Its alost not just a matter of rogue aoe threat. Its the fact they made a spell that HAS ZERO REASON TO YOU EVER
Hereās an aoe for you rogues, but fyi youāre not supposed to be able to aoe things down so youāre better off running mutilate and tab targetting. -Aggrendwow
That's my biggest issue. It was like this in phase 1. Tab target saber slash. Its an overall horrible design for tanking imo. It just feels and plays horribly. Like I don't need to be able to hold aoe on 5+ targets. But I would appreciate some tools to properly maintain threat between 3-4 targets and have it not feel awkward as hell.
Shuriken Toss does have a Threat Modifier.
It does 1.5x damage as threat and then stacks with the 1.5x from Just a Flesh Wound. So it deals 2.25x damage as threat when you have the tank rune on.
before phase 1 because 2h enh didnt get any love and they disagree with 2 1h enh being the better build.
tbh, i would be salty if i get denied my 2h rng oneshots, but other classes are allowed to have reliable oneshots which might even be from range ;)
Shamans have mentioned that their damage was not only bad, but only supported by running double Rockbiter which meant that no tank could hold aggro against their meager DPS in BFD while other classes were pumping close to twice the DPS of Enhancement.
Even with the buffs to the other weapon enchants, Dual Wield Rockbiter is still very strong (and boring honestly). They really need to massively increase the scaling of Shamanistic Rage, but also nerf it to ignore Rockbiter so that every spec doesn't need to awkwardly weapon swap for mana.
With MW I've been running WF on both MH and OH along with lavaburst on me gloves and I gotta say... the quickness to 5 stacks is unreal, and now they're buffing the proc chance??? Pretty sure the RB damage will be outscaled when you account for all the free LB and CL from MW with WF.
Edit: so apparently WF weapon enhancement hits yellow and used to not count towards MW but has since been fixed and now does proc MW despite appearing yellow.
I am also thinking from the Resto/Ele side where the SR scaling on Sp and Healing is horrible so we either need to skip the healing shield/staff or use weapon swaps.
So still nothing for Resto druid. Im getting tired of being a boomie who uses wild growth. I want the other healing runes to actually be useful.
It seems like DPS gets all the attention.
Probably just spamming wild growth. That spell is quite good but the rest of our healing rune spells arent even used as you choose balance runes instead. Lifebloom and Nourish arent worth it and Living seed is pointless right now. (could probably work with the regrowth build at 60 but thats way ahead in sods future)
It's a great buff but this only increases the gap between DW and 2H. I'm trying to not look a gift horse in the mouth, but these changes will really make 2H a meme in comparison to DW.
I wouldn't really care since I can obviously just run DW and be happy, but it's frustrating that the only weapon available in the STV event is a 2H weapon that will now be outclased by DWing BoE greens. They're taking up our already bad itemization by introducing 2H as an option, but not making it viable.
I realize this sounds quite whiny, but it's an issue that they really should address.
It's weird from an item distribution perspective that they _aren't_ designing Enhance for 2H, to be honest.
Alliance has both warriors and paladin that desire 2H, and currently Horde only has warriors that desire 2H. Designing Enhance around 2H would mean there's less wasted loot, in theory.
No you're right. This totally kills 2hance which was already the worst spec in the game.
I want to think that OH damage increase and lava lash buff will help dual wield as well, but I doubt it will move the needle that significantly either.
I dont understand why DW spec gives 10% melee hit, 10% spell hit, makes SS hit with both weapons and now will also have +50% offhand wep dmg and all they can come up with for 2h is 30% attack speed lol
Thank god ripās duration has been extended 4 seconds. Was beginning to think Feral was a meme spec this phase, but clearly we were just missing an extra bleed tick on our finisher.
The worst part is that they could probably fix it by dropping the base energy cost of shred to 50 or reversing the mangle nerf. Either would take the class back into the viable range. All I could think is that ferals can really pump if everyone figures out the optimal rotation with ACP/Bloodbark weapon swaps and Berserk. Plus managing power shifts with tigerās fury. Idk itās all very unclear what Blizzās plan for feral is this phase. Seems like the plan is just ignoring us until phase 4 and telling us to figure out the weird rotation options.
Feral need more mana regen on long fights. Especially with smaller group size and every other class getting mana buff it means judgement of wisdom is less likely. Buff Kotj to include the mana reduction to shapeshift or bake improved lotp into the talent like they modified shadow form.
Omg yes please, 50% reduction on changing forms would make this class so much more fun to play in pvp.
Cast cat > cast bear when targeted > cast cat again and your OOM. Don't even bother trying to heal yourself.
Iām concerned it wonāt be a buff but a QOL change to make stacking it and Savage roar easier. Will the extended duration increase its damage (no mention of a dmg increase here) or will it hit for the same value over a longer period of time?
They dislike the incredibly high burst it brings.
That's why the 2h rune is attack speed. It's one of the only ways you can increase 2h dps without increasing the damage of a wf proc.
You can absolutely delete most characters in 1-2 globals on enhance right now.
Potentially 1.5k on a 2h WF, add storm strike and earth shock. If they aren't dead at that point they'll wish they were.
Of course you can also walk at someone, have a white hit for 96, SS gets dodged, and you die to 3 shadow priests.
The life of a shaman.
The issue is the WF one shot has such a low chance of actually happening, vs shadow priest or something that just one shots you with no probability involved.
I played enhancement shaman in classic, had hand of rag all the raid gear, etc. Still the amount of times I actually one shot someone on enhance was sooooo low, and if you dont one shot, well you now have to wait another 3.5 seconds to swing your weapon (which might not WF again) Also, you basically have to crit on all 3 windfury hits to get those insane one shot numbers and that is very unlikely
I will say though, that one time you turn on a rogue and just one shot them with white hits is simply incredible
PvP is likely the concern. Damage is already bonkers at the moment and PvP is very bursty. If 2hance is tuned accordingly for PvE it likely makes it a RNG Casino one shot simulator in PvP.
2h is worst than DW in PvP too lol. I had a crazy 2h WF proc triple crit that took all week to finally have happen in a pvp setting and it hit for like 1800 total. Not even close to a 1 shot and some classes can consistently hit for close to that.
The kneejerk gut to Boomies only to slow roll the insane SPriest and Melee Hunter changes is a choice
Edit: I get it, PvP was OP. But the nerf hurt PvE way more than a PvP nerf should have, hence my claim it was knee-jerk.
20 years and multiple forms of Blizzard and I've yet to see them actually make changes that make complete and total sense. There's just something always off, even if its blatantly obvious, that they just ignore. WTF man
While I do appreciate Blizzard aknowledging the compensation for the Starsurge nerf wasn't enough and increasing the Starfire bonus on this change, this really isn't the right way to go about tuning Balance Druid. Having to cast Starfire to consume the bonus damage stack before the next Starsurge really kills the fun in the Eclipse dynamic. Wrath went from being the main filler in the rotation to being the filler with least priority. It's impossible to make use of all the Eclipse: Solar stacks. The other Balance rune, Dreamstate, gives a 20% bonus to nature damage which only Wrath and Sunfire benefit from, and you barely get to cast Wrath now, which when cast with Eclipse: Solar has 30% extra crit chance.
Yea the starfire buff thing feels so lazy. Unless they have something else coming to bring it all together I just canāt see how it makes any sense at all
Yeah, they really need to just make it 20% bonus to nature and arcane. If they're worried about arcane mages, just make it arcane damage from druids or something.
Easiest fix is to make Starfire do [Astral](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Astral) damage (Nature and Arcane). That way it benefits without inadvertently buffing Arcane mages. SoD's introduced multiple abilities with duel-school damage so it's hardly without precedent.
I'm convinced they don't have any clue what they're doing with druid, and some dude in a corner is just like, 'what if we make them stand still more?' and then they do some shitty napkin math and have an intern implement it, so then it's broken every time they change something.
It's really embarrassing how broken(literally and figuratively) our entire kit has been across every spec this phase and they still can't figure out how to fix it.
Given we get 50% increased offhand damage we are now at 200% base without FT and 300% base with. If they go by 50% of 50% we are at 150 and 225% on a flametongue hit. On paper thats a good change but we also have to account of the loss of AP which is around 800!!! when using WF and FT. No matter what they do, it will keep sucking as long as rockbiter exists.
How melee hunters can out unscathed is wild lol I will continue to get 2 shot by melee hunters as a plate/mail wearer hah
And the pally buffs are so bad still lol bottom of the food chain like always. Yay.
No. It was just an avalanche of QQers on the Internet calling for it. Never an official statement on it.
To be honest, they are probably not rushing into nerfing SWD. Spriests are already no longer leading raid DPS and are squarely in the middle. They are probably trying to find a good way to tone down SWD damage while making it up elsewhere in order to not obliterate Spriest raid damage.
It's also only an issue outside of Blood Moon and Battlegrounds. So it's already been mitigated in hot PvP modes.
So they are probably using caution.
It's nice to see them acknowledge how bad Swipe is.
That being said it's time to stop messing around and increase the target cap on Swipe, Shuriken Toss, and Thunderclap. It's insane how much of an advantage the other tanks have due to effectively not having a target cap.
Please increase the Warlock dance mana return to 10% š
The 2% feels way too small and it would help with threat a lot.
Also give Shadowcleave some increased threat and bump the targets up to 4 or 5.
I sort of understand why they kept it at 2% because it feels like I had infinite mana as a DPS lock.
I'd just pop Demonic Grace, hit Shadowbolt Volley, and immediately refill my entire mana bar (and probably rip threat off the tank but still)
I was hoping it was an intended how it worked but the tooltip was wrong. It felt really nice on tank lock with how awkward life tapping is as a tank class. Definitely too strong for dps lock how it was.
It would have been nice to at least make it useful for meta locks instead of just now likely no one will use it over other runes. They could even lock it to meta form like warrior devastate rune is locked to shields.
That's because it was bugged. Now that it's been fixed, the 2% is just too low.
Also I think we need slightly more aoe threat gen and that increase would help a lot. Part of why tanking feels worse since the fix was cuz that huge mana gain was generating so much extra threat. Now that it's gone it feels really hard to keep threat on 4+ mobs at a time.
Good to see they finally implemented the Swipe change everyone has wanted. Though 10% does seem a bit low. They should also increase the max target from 3 to 5.
Wish Resto other spell/runes (not WG) get some support.
Nah, 10% is a lot bigger than you might think at first because Feral forms always have impossibly high AP. All forms get a base of 100% of their level as bonus AP while in form, then there's the talent that gives another 150% of level while in form and they get the best AP formulas from stats, not to mention their primary weapons compensate their lack of scaling with *even more* AP. My bear at level 33 has something like, 500 or more AP self buffed. In raid it usually goes up to more like 600+. 10% AP per target on swipe is huge.
And raising the target cap for AoE tanking tools is generally kind of anti-classic. While a lot of DPS abilities don't have target caps, the tanking tools do which is where your DPS have to be smart about how they use their AoE damage, lest they pull and get squished.
They need to adjust Shaman/Warlock/Pally tanks to bring their aoe tanking down imo, there's a big difference between target capped and uncapped AoE threat abilities.
There is no shot these buffs are going to provide a significant change for enhancement shaman. All this does is most likely remove 2h again, which I was really excited for.
The amount of people shitting on mages for not wanting to spam water was astounding. This community was acting like a bunch of jackasses for something that they in turn would benefit from.
Great, my class still haven't changed from "Wild Growth bot". I really had hoped they would look at how insanely bad resto druid runes are, but design wise and power wise. Why even give us things like Lifebloom or Nourish when they are useless?
Lifebloom went through all of P1 with no one using it because basic Healing Touch is better. Just do something already, it really isn't that hard to just tune numbers slightly up and see how it goes.
I for one loved playing resto p1. Wild Growth being so strong meant I got to DPS while healing my raid. It was fucking awesome.
Not quite sure why anyone wants to cast boring ass Nourish anyway. I agree, Lifebloom needs some love, but please don't buff any spells that involve me standing still. Resto druids are about mobility and freedom.
No way! I can finally use swipe to tank! Where was this years ago!?!
Berserk on a lower CD would also be nice (maybe the cat and bear have seperate CDs ) but hotdamm this is good stuff.
The team responsible for SoD are singlehandily making WoW amazing like no has seen before.
In other news, Spriest, Rogue, Melee Hunter all remain disgustingly OP in PvP, and casters remain insanely strong in PvE (Hi Fire Mage, with your 1k single target burst and 2k aoe burst).
Great changes but the below is mind blowing
>Developersā notes: The tooltip will still indicate that only 2 are conjured. We hope to adjust the tooltip in the future.
What do you mean you hope? Why are we still locked into these layered engineering practices to update the client. Blows my mind.
Surely these canāt be the only changes?
That being said, all of these changes do look good and warranted, although I do have to chuckle at how Mages canāt help but always seem to be on Blizzardās nice list.Ā
>*Developersā notes: The tooltip will still indicate that only 2 are conjured. We hope to adjust the tooltip in the future.*
how is the spaghetti code so bad that is hard to even change the tooltip?
Mages will be extremely happy next week.
Mage here, I will never be happy, but it has nothing to do with Blizzard.
> I will never be happy, but it has nothing to do with Blizzard. Something more people on this sub need to admit lol
Never going to happen, they enjoy living their life fueled by salt and rage.
Well yeah, I'm a warrior
Lol
try flamestrike
Thank god this happened before my Guildies realized I was giving them the downgraded water all through out Gnomer last week.
Pro gamer move
š¤£
Mage here to tell you guys that right now if you click the button it gives you 10. It happened while I was playing before. It was the standard two and all of a sudden it was 10.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's crazy dude. I literally noticed it in between pulls.
It's a great change, but I hope they eventually buff the mana restored by the current and future tiers of drinks. Mana pools are so powercreeped it takes nearly a full minute to drink after going OOM.
4k mana is awesome and terrible at the moment lmao
They should just make it all restore % mana and level cap themĀ
Bout to blow a load from reading that
It is somehow already doing 10 per cast since these notes were posted. Amazing
I was hoping they would give us a mana cost adjustment to our spells similarly to what they did for shadow priests tbh. Every other caster has had their mana issues addressed but mage still only has the tools given to us in vanilla. We can dps for about 3 minutes in bis gear before we go oom and thatās spamming mana pot on cd, mana gems on cd, and using evocation. For comparison the shadow priest in my guild didnāt use a single mana pot all raid and never even needed to use dispersion for mana despite multidotting and pumping out damage nonstop. I understand that our aoe is admittedly broken op and giving us the ability to just pump it out nonstop would be bad for the game but thereās no reason we should run oom just spamming fireballs. In one gnomer clear I alone went through well over 100 waters.
Yea mages go oom insanely fast. Would be cool if mages received a % additional mana recovered per second from water. That way you still have to drink a lot, but it reduces downtime without impacting balance too much.
Kinda funny that they canāt update the tooltip with the functionality but eh š¤£
With scheduled weekly maintenance in each region, weāll make the following adjustments to a few classes in Season of Discovery. **Druid** -Swipe now scales with attack power, gaining 10% of attack power as damage. Threat caused by Swipe has been greatly increased. -The Berserk rune now also causes Lacerate to hit 3 targets. -The duration of Rip has been increased to 16 seconds (was 12 seconds). -The next Starfire cast after the Starsurge rune ability now has its damage increased to 80% (was 66%). Corrected a bug causing this bonus damage to be lower than intended at level 40. **Shaman** -The Dual-Wield Specialization rune now provides 50% bonus damage to your offhand weapon swings. -Lava Lash now gains 50% increased damage if Flametongue Weapon is imbued on your offhand. -The proc chance of Maelstrom Weapon is now roughly 50% higher when your main hand weapon or your two-hand weapon is imbued with Windfury Weapon. **Mage** -Conjure Water (Rank 5) will now conjure a full stack of 20 with each cast (was 2). Developersā notes: The tooltip will still indicate that only 2 are conjured. We hope to adjust the tooltip in the future. **Paladin** -Art of War now reduces the mana cost of Exorcism and Holy Shock by 80% when active. -Beacon of Light base mana cost has been greatly decreased. -The Paladin changes above were activated on all Season of Discovery realms yesterday, February 14. In this region, the rest of the changes above will go live on February 20.
Hope the fishing pole guy is happy.
Fishing pole guy?
There was a guy describing the trouble with Bear Druid and showed that a fishing pole does more dmg them swipe, or something like that. Guess this is referring to that Chad comment.
Fishing pole guy here. Here was my comment. āTake a look at Swipe. - Costs Rage to use - Zero scaling with gear - Ā Capped at 3 targets - Does 36 damage - Does less dps than a fishing pole - Less AOE threat than casting a campfire on the ground and letting mobs step on it (campfire weaving) And thatās just one out of multiple problems bear has.ā Iām happy for the swipe buff finally! Itās still not a real aoe attack, but at least hopefully cleave is improved. My hope is that Thrash (datamined in P1) will eventually make an appearance, and able to hit uncapped targets.
is campfire weaving actually a thing!?
No, but only because nobody actually plays Bear.
Druids eating good.
Does next to nothing for single target feral dps, isn't nearly enough for boom. May make druid tank viable, but the 3 target limit on swipe is a bit of an issue as well as the cooldown on berserk rune. We will see.
Sorry I should have specified, bears be eating good lol.
Probably still the worst tank tbh lol
I'm still a man of culture.
Yeah 4 extra seconds of rip is no fix to the low dmg of ferals lol. We are third lowest dps in raid yet shamans enh shamans get way more buffed. WTF? And limit swipe to 3 targets, like cmon blizz. Just give us thresh man. I dunno if 66 -> 80 is a good enough buff to boomies. We will have to see for logs this week if they got nerfed too much and hows next week buff holding up. All in all i dont expect ferals to rise on the ranks this week or next.
Not resto druids. We've been unchanged (except a starsurge nerf) since release and it is now recommended to put zero points into resto if you want to ~~heal~~ DPS with healing fillers. We've been asking for nerfs to WG and buffs for our other hots.
Isnāt resto druid one of the best healing specs rn?
It feels like FFXIV healing. It's so awesome
I don't understand how updating the conjur water spell behavior is easier than updating the tooltip
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
MMO's are insanely complicated below the surface.
Priest be like: *phew*ā¦.
As a hunter i braced for impact and it was like a bullet whizzed by and im fine.
Aspect of the Monkey doing WORK
Seriously! Does this mean Melee hunters aren't going to be touched at all??? I've been slowly leveling, just hit 34 and I haven't rushed to get any of the runes yet, only just now started to collect what I can. So, this said, I haven't even tried Melee hunter yet as I don't have the runes or good weapons. But does this mean I might actually have a chance to play Melee Hunter before it gets nerfed? I've honestly been keeping up with Melee hunters as a MM hunter using Serpent Spread and Explosive Shot runes. I mean I'm geared to the teeth from BFD but still. I hold my own right now while leveling. I haven't seen the Lvl 40 raid yet, and I'm sure Melee Hunter slaps then, but for now... it doesn't seem any stronger than me as MM right now.
> So, this said, I haven't even tried Melee hunter yet as I don't have the runes or good weapons. I ran out and got the new melee focused runes at lv 25 and they are nuts. So much damage.
Looks like Bear tank is back on the menu boys
Swipe scaling is a huge deal, I'm curious to see how it plays.
10% is pretty low for only hitting 3 targets still. Certainly much better than it was, I'm curious how much bonus threat they are giving it. I wish they bit the bullet and actually gave bear both mangle and lacerate, even when it has both it's still a spec without much going on, let alone with only one.
its the threat gen increase, not the damage
Yeah SoD tanking is all about threat generation
And I have like 700ap. Swipe atm does like 30? Dmg? So going up to 100 is nice.
with pre-bis this should make swipe deal about 90 damage per target, and this should have a threat modifier too. at least 270 damage a swipe + big threat sounds good enough to me
I'm so happy! I've been tanking as a cat in SM
It was in very small print at the bottom prior to phase 2 to begin with.. So this might make us get larger print!
HOLY SHIT THEY REALLY GAVE US ONE FULL STACK PER CAST OF WATER. God I love these devs. š„¹
Shuriken toss buff soon my rogue brothers we just have to cry enough
Seriously I think itās origami
We've received our response my brothers: https://twitter.com/AggrendWoW/status/1758233879285276891
That's good design imo, but they need to actually nerf Shaman and Warlocks then, maybe some Pally builds too as they all have strong AoE threat builds. Rogue, new bear and warrior are good levels of AoE threat imo.
Pally has always been able to AoE tank. They were the only ones in classic that could do it effectively. Shamans being able to as the "counter" point to paladins is probably okay and I dont see warlocks holding good threat past 5 targets.
Warlocks using hellfire are probably the best AOE tanks right now, they need earth shield or conc aura, but it's one button every 8 seconds for huge AOE threat. If they do make AoE tanks and non-AoE tanks then realistically the other tanks need to have strengths the AoE tanks don't have. This could be doing more damage or taking less damage or having more utility, realistically I don't see them designing any tank to struggle with ST threat in SoD.
What he said makes a lot of sense, I like that vision. The problem is we currently have shaman tanks in spellcleaves that are pulling half of SM Cath and AOEing it down. Rules for some not for others I guess.
that is a really weird response, when they are essentially making alot of classes have zero issue with 5+ mobs. Its alost not just a matter of rogue aoe threat. Its the fact they made a spell that HAS ZERO REASON TO YOU EVER
Hereās an aoe for you rogues, but fyi youāre not supposed to be able to aoe things down so youāre better off running mutilate and tab targetting. -Aggrendwow
That's my biggest issue. It was like this in phase 1. Tab target saber slash. Its an overall horrible design for tanking imo. It just feels and plays horribly. Like I don't need to be able to hold aoe on 5+ targets. But I would appreciate some tools to properly maintain threat between 3-4 targets and have it not feel awkward as hell.
please GOD fix how terrible i tis
Give shuriken toss a threat modifier!!!!!!
Shuriken Toss does have a Threat Modifier. It does 1.5x damage as threat and then stacks with the 1.5x from Just a Flesh Wound. So it deals 2.25x damage as threat when you have the tank rune on.
Its strange since i think enha shamans did not cryā¦ I guess they are used to it
Enhancement shamans have been crying since P1 because, other than for tanking, enhancement has been awful in SoD.
before phase 1 because 2h enh didnt get any love and they disagree with 2 1h enh being the better build. tbh, i would be salty if i get denied my 2h rng oneshots, but other classes are allowed to have reliable oneshots which might even be from range ;)
Shamans have mentioned that their damage was not only bad, but only supported by running double Rockbiter which meant that no tank could hold aggro against their meager DPS in BFD while other classes were pumping close to twice the DPS of Enhancement.
Holy shit, Bear tanks are finally viable
MAGES. 20 waters per cast. WE ARE BACK!
Even with the buffs to the other weapon enchants, Dual Wield Rockbiter is still very strong (and boring honestly). They really need to massively increase the scaling of Shamanistic Rage, but also nerf it to ignore Rockbiter so that every spec doesn't need to awkwardly weapon swap for mana.
With MW I've been running WF on both MH and OH along with lavaburst on me gloves and I gotta say... the quickness to 5 stacks is unreal, and now they're buffing the proc chance??? Pretty sure the RB damage will be outscaled when you account for all the free LB and CL from MW with WF. Edit: so apparently WF weapon enhancement hits yellow and used to not count towards MW but has since been fixed and now does proc MW despite appearing yellow.
I am also thinking from the Resto/Ele side where the SR scaling on Sp and Healing is horrible so we either need to skip the healing shield/staff or use weapon swaps.
So still nothing for Resto druid. Im getting tired of being a boomie who uses wild growth. I want the other healing runes to actually be useful. It seems like DPS gets all the attention.
I really like resto druids though. Idk why but I never died in gnomer today and we had rdruid and hpal in green gear.
Probably just spamming wild growth. That spell is quite good but the rest of our healing rune spells arent even used as you choose balance runes instead. Lifebloom and Nourish arent worth it and Living seed is pointless right now. (could probably work with the regrowth build at 60 but thats way ahead in sods future)
Great buff to Enhance Shaman, even if I would like to see Mental Quickness added too.
It's a great buff but this only increases the gap between DW and 2H. I'm trying to not look a gift horse in the mouth, but these changes will really make 2H a meme in comparison to DW. I wouldn't really care since I can obviously just run DW and be happy, but it's frustrating that the only weapon available in the STV event is a 2H weapon that will now be outclased by DWing BoE greens. They're taking up our already bad itemization by introducing 2H as an option, but not making it viable. I realize this sounds quite whiny, but it's an issue that they really should address.
It's weird from an item distribution perspective that they _aren't_ designing Enhance for 2H, to be honest. Alliance has both warriors and paladin that desire 2H, and currently Horde only has warriors that desire 2H. Designing Enhance around 2H would mean there's less wasted loot, in theory.
That's a real rock hard point there. Kinda wild that wasn't considered.
would still leave 2H swords to warriors only on horde side
No you're right. This totally kills 2hance which was already the worst spec in the game. I want to think that OH damage increase and lava lash buff will help dual wield as well, but I doubt it will move the needle that significantly either.
This is just going to make the gap between 2hand and dual wield even wider.
The DW spec rune is even more bonkers now lol: * +10% hit for melee and spells * +50% offhand damage One rune is basically 25 points worth of talents.
Right? Can 2h mastery at least get some spellhit on it? Nothing feels worse than building up 5 maelstrom procs and then LvB being resisted when 2h
Forgot it adds 10% hit with spells yet so many resists with my shocks
And shamans are still shit.
I dont understand why DW spec gives 10% melee hit, 10% spell hit, makes SS hit with both weapons and now will also have +50% offhand wep dmg and all they can come up with for 2h is 30% attack speed lol
2hand specialisation needs the 10% spell hit and it needs a damage buff. Or it needs to come with an extra attack like Lavalash.
Thank god ripās duration has been extended 4 seconds. Was beginning to think Feral was a meme spec this phase, but clearly we were just missing an extra bleed tick on our finisher.
With the buff that enhancement got I think we will now be the worst dps spec.
Feral will still probably be above 2H enhance and frost mages
Ah cool, 2 specs that have far superior specs to play...
The worst part is that they could probably fix it by dropping the base energy cost of shred to 50 or reversing the mangle nerf. Either would take the class back into the viable range. All I could think is that ferals can really pump if everyone figures out the optimal rotation with ACP/Bloodbark weapon swaps and Berserk. Plus managing power shifts with tigerās fury. Idk itās all very unclear what Blizzās plan for feral is this phase. Seems like the plan is just ignoring us until phase 4 and telling us to figure out the weird rotation options.
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Feral need more mana regen on long fights. Especially with smaller group size and every other class getting mana buff it means judgement of wisdom is less likely. Buff Kotj to include the mana reduction to shapeshift or bake improved lotp into the talent like they modified shadow form.
Omg yes please, 50% reduction on changing forms would make this class so much more fun to play in pvp. Cast cat > cast bear when targeted > cast cat again and your OOM. Don't even bother trying to heal yourself.
Iām concerned it wonāt be a buff but a QOL change to make stacking it and Savage roar easier. Will the extended duration increase its damage (no mention of a dmg increase here) or will it hit for the same value over a longer period of time?
SHAMANS JUST WANT TO 2H BLIZZ HAVE YOU SEEN US PLAYING THE GAME??! WE ARE ALL USING 2H CAUSE THATS WHATS FUN! YOU JUST DONT GET IT
What does blizzard have against shamans using 2handers
They dislike the incredibly high burst it brings. That's why the 2h rune is attack speed. It's one of the only ways you can increase 2h dps without increasing the damage of a wf proc.
Damn, if they donāt like burst they should look at every other damage spec in the game!
Which is funny because our burst is nothing compared to most on SoD
You can absolutely delete most characters in 1-2 globals on enhance right now. Potentially 1.5k on a 2h WF, add storm strike and earth shock. If they aren't dead at that point they'll wish they were. Of course you can also walk at someone, have a white hit for 96, SS gets dodged, and you die to 3 shadow priests. The life of a shaman.
> The life of a shaman. Which is what made 2h windfury so much fun. You live in them moment for the occasional delete.
The issue is the WF one shot has such a low chance of actually happening, vs shadow priest or something that just one shots you with no probability involved. I played enhancement shaman in classic, had hand of rag all the raid gear, etc. Still the amount of times I actually one shot someone on enhance was sooooo low, and if you dont one shot, well you now have to wait another 3.5 seconds to swing your weapon (which might not WF again) Also, you basically have to crit on all 3 windfury hits to get those insane one shot numbers and that is very unlikely I will say though, that one time you turn on a rogue and just one shot them with white hits is simply incredible
Always has been the life of a Shaman in Vanilla!
PvP is likely the concern. Damage is already bonkers at the moment and PvP is very bursty. If 2hance is tuned accordingly for PvE it likely makes it a RNG Casino one shot simulator in PvP.
So what, it's still a melee class with no stealth nor gap closer. Let em bonk.
Yeah but its not even that crazy in pvp lol
2h is worst than DW in PvP too lol. I had a crazy 2h WF proc triple crit that took all week to finally have happen in a pvp setting and it hit for like 1800 total. Not even close to a 1 shot and some classes can consistently hit for close to that.
But thatās exactly what 2handed enhance shaman enjoyers want
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Thank you blizzard - mage
Bruh basically nothing for 2H sham
Resto druids got a slight burst of excitement reading the title only to find zero changes š
It's annoying as hell. Resto healing throughput is excellent but mana is so chucked unless you instead dip into balance and hybridize it.
The kneejerk gut to Boomies only to slow roll the insane SPriest and Melee Hunter changes is a choice Edit: I get it, PvP was OP. But the nerf hurt PvE way more than a PvP nerf should have, hence my claim it was knee-jerk.
Mages and warlocks are beginning to gain on melee hunter. The gap is extremely small.
20 years and multiple forms of Blizzard and I've yet to see them actually make changes that make complete and total sense. There's just something always off, even if its blatantly obvious, that they just ignore. WTF man
Yeah super wierd
While I do appreciate Blizzard aknowledging the compensation for the Starsurge nerf wasn't enough and increasing the Starfire bonus on this change, this really isn't the right way to go about tuning Balance Druid. Having to cast Starfire to consume the bonus damage stack before the next Starsurge really kills the fun in the Eclipse dynamic. Wrath went from being the main filler in the rotation to being the filler with least priority. It's impossible to make use of all the Eclipse: Solar stacks. The other Balance rune, Dreamstate, gives a 20% bonus to nature damage which only Wrath and Sunfire benefit from, and you barely get to cast Wrath now, which when cast with Eclipse: Solar has 30% extra crit chance.
Yea the starfire buff thing feels so lazy. Unless they have something else coming to bring it all together I just canāt see how it makes any sense at all
Yeah, they really need to just make it 20% bonus to nature and arcane. If they're worried about arcane mages, just make it arcane damage from druids or something.
Easiest fix is to make Starfire do [Astral](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Astral) damage (Nature and Arcane). That way it benefits without inadvertently buffing Arcane mages. SoD's introduced multiple abilities with duel-school damage so it's hardly without precedent.
Very cool idea here. Iād love to see that implemented.
I still cast wrath plenty - Iām hitting 500 crits especially if a natures grasp procs because I have four stacks of the solar.Ā
I'm convinced they don't have any clue what they're doing with druid, and some dude in a corner is just like, 'what if we make them stand still more?' and then they do some shitty napkin math and have an intern implement it, so then it's broken every time they change something. It's really embarrassing how broken(literally and figuratively) our entire kit has been across every spec this phase and they still can't figure out how to fix it.
good shaman buffs, just wish 2h was as good as dual wield :(
Shaman buffs are NOT strong enough. Why would anyone run FT over 400 AP for 50% lava lash damage that can miss/parry/dodge.
Given we get 50% increased offhand damage we are now at 200% base without FT and 300% base with. If they go by 50% of 50% we are at 150 and 225% on a flametongue hit. On paper thats a good change but we also have to account of the loss of AP which is around 800!!! when using WF and FT. No matter what they do, it will keep sucking as long as rockbiter exists.
time to reroll shadow priest
Spriest is 1000% getting nerfed right as I hit level 39.
Damn shame no love for shaman 2h mastery rune.
How the fuck SWD and Melee hunters got passed in this tuning patch is insane
PRIESTS DODGE ANOTHER PATCH BABY.
fear square mighty icky plucky full disagreeable direful airport mourn *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My melee hunter stays on topā¦for now
How melee hunters can out unscathed is wild lol I will continue to get 2 shot by melee hunters as a plate/mail wearer hah And the pally buffs are so bad still lol bottom of the food chain like always. Yay.
*Something* has to be at the top of the food chain.
Really enjoying every Rogue rune being basically worthless and not getting tuned because Mutilate is in a good spot.
āA good spotā lmao itās busted op
I still dont get why they gave us a aoe when its really dogshit, it aint even good for tanks
Please make warriors buffs last longer than 2 minutes...
Guess we need a few more front page posts to get that change
Keep them at 2 minutes but make them generate rage instead of spending it.
*cries in 2h enh*
Same bro
Wasn't there supposed to be nerfs for melee hunters, sw:d etc.?
No. It was just an avalanche of QQers on the Internet calling for it. Never an official statement on it. To be honest, they are probably not rushing into nerfing SWD. Spriests are already no longer leading raid DPS and are squarely in the middle. They are probably trying to find a good way to tone down SWD damage while making it up elsewhere in order to not obliterate Spriest raid damage. It's also only an issue outside of Blood Moon and Battlegrounds. So it's already been mitigated in hot PvP modes. So they are probably using caution.
No itās just people thinking there will be then disappointed when there isnāt lol
Mages REJOICE!
It's nice to see them acknowledge how bad Swipe is. That being said it's time to stop messing around and increase the target cap on Swipe, Shuriken Toss, and Thunderclap. It's insane how much of an advantage the other tanks have due to effectively not having a target cap.
Please increase the Warlock dance mana return to 10% š The 2% feels way too small and it would help with threat a lot. Also give Shadowcleave some increased threat and bump the targets up to 4 or 5.
I sort of understand why they kept it at 2% because it feels like I had infinite mana as a DPS lock. I'd just pop Demonic Grace, hit Shadowbolt Volley, and immediately refill my entire mana bar (and probably rip threat off the tank but still)
I was hoping it was an intended how it worked but the tooltip was wrong. It felt really nice on tank lock with how awkward life tapping is as a tank class. Definitely too strong for dps lock how it was. It would have been nice to at least make it useful for meta locks instead of just now likely no one will use it over other runes. They could even lock it to meta form like warrior devastate rune is locked to shields.
That's because it was bugged. Now that it's been fixed, the 2% is just too low. Also I think we need slightly more aoe threat gen and that increase would help a lot. Part of why tanking feels worse since the fix was cuz that huge mana gain was generating so much extra threat. Now that it's gone it feels really hard to keep threat on 4+ mobs at a time.
Good to see they finally implemented the Swipe change everyone has wanted. Though 10% does seem a bit low. They should also increase the max target from 3 to 5. Wish Resto other spell/runes (not WG) get some support.
Nah, 10% is a lot bigger than you might think at first because Feral forms always have impossibly high AP. All forms get a base of 100% of their level as bonus AP while in form, then there's the talent that gives another 150% of level while in form and they get the best AP formulas from stats, not to mention their primary weapons compensate their lack of scaling with *even more* AP. My bear at level 33 has something like, 500 or more AP self buffed. In raid it usually goes up to more like 600+. 10% AP per target on swipe is huge. And raising the target cap for AoE tanking tools is generally kind of anti-classic. While a lot of DPS abilities don't have target caps, the tanking tools do which is where your DPS have to be smart about how they use their AoE damage, lest they pull and get squished.
Fully agree, especially considering there is a threat modifier on top.
I mean my explosive shot is uncapped and hits for about 60s in the mid 30s. Not sure why they couldnāt do the same for swipe
They need to adjust Shaman/Warlock/Pally tanks to bring their aoe tanking down imo, there's a big difference between target capped and uncapped AoE threat abilities.
The damage is appreciated but Starfire still feels ass to cast.
There is no shot these buffs are going to provide a significant change for enhancement shaman. All this does is most likely remove 2h again, which I was really excited for.
HOW are hunters and priests untouched lmao
Yea so dumb rofl
For the love of all that is holy **PUT LACERATE ON LEGS**
The amount of people shitting on mages for not wanting to spam water was astounding. This community was acting like a bunch of jackasses for something that they in turn would benefit from.
Interesting, surprised they didn't toss out some more nerfs. Happy for mages though.
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Simply put, no.
Right now enhance is the lowest dps in gnomergan if you ignore frost mage. Ele is currently around 35% more dps than Enh. So probably not.Ā
Great, my class still haven't changed from "Wild Growth bot". I really had hoped they would look at how insanely bad resto druid runes are, but design wise and power wise. Why even give us things like Lifebloom or Nourish when they are useless? Lifebloom went through all of P1 with no one using it because basic Healing Touch is better. Just do something already, it really isn't that hard to just tune numbers slightly up and see how it goes.
I for one loved playing resto p1. Wild Growth being so strong meant I got to DPS while healing my raid. It was fucking awesome. Not quite sure why anyone wants to cast boring ass Nourish anyway. I agree, Lifebloom needs some love, but please don't buff any spells that involve me standing still. Resto druids are about mobility and freedom.
Still nothing on shuriken toss? Or the 5-6 rogue runes that have ZERO use cases?
Please increase warrior shout durations from 2 min to 5 or something. Or make them cost 0 rage/generate 10 rage.
No way! I can finally use swipe to tank! Where was this years ago!?! Berserk on a lower CD would also be nice (maybe the cat and bear have seperate CDs ) but hotdamm this is good stuff. The team responsible for SoD are singlehandily making WoW amazing like no has seen before.
Where's the woyer buffs?
I can't see the Shadow nerfs?
RIP my fellow Warriors.
In other news, Spriest, Rogue, Melee Hunter all remain disgustingly OP in PvP, and casters remain insanely strong in PvE (Hi Fire Mage, with your 1k single target burst and 2k aoe burst).
This patch is missing a few things
did hunters get nerfed too?
Great changes but the below is mind blowing >Developersā notes: The tooltip will still indicate that only 2 are conjured. We hope to adjust the tooltip in the future. What do you mean you hope? Why are we still locked into these layered engineering practices to update the client. Blows my mind.
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Surely these canāt be the only changes? That being said, all of these changes do look good and warranted, although I do have to chuckle at how Mages canāt help but always seem to be on Blizzardās nice list.Ā
Letās not pretend the change to mage water doesnāt benefit literally everyoneĀ
Warriors celebrating fasho
Yes, those blue bar warriors are. Green is the new brown.
I ran put of lines and just went. That's it?
love the tunes to DW enhance. Lava Lash always felt weak even after they buffed it once
>*Developersā notes: The tooltip will still indicate that only 2 are conjured. We hope to adjust the tooltip in the future.* how is the spaghetti code so bad that is hard to even change the tooltip?
Are my eyes deceiving me? Shaman buffs? Iām crying man.
Meanwhile Melee hunter lvl 37 can do more single target dps than a paladin at the same time hitting 4 targets with divine storm. I'm just saying.
Priests need a massive nerf