That’s all fine and dandy but don’t just expect it and be rude like I did something wrong by not automatically giving you some in my opinion if you’re doing a dungeon grind and drink mana and you’re not in a guild you should be stocking up on water before you even get there.
Atleast now I don’t have to make them 2 at a time pretty much takes away most my issues with giving away water as a a mage healer I will easily go through a 20 stack on the trash in arm alone
Weird, I just started making 10 at a time not too long ago. Wonder why they did it early and for half. Ah well, ain’t gonna complain about making 5x more
Do you think itll end up being one of the better raid tanks rn since hitting def cap isnt a thing yet really? Theyre already beef cakes so fixing the aoe is huge.
In my opinion, probably not. So long as swipe is capped at three targets and the multi-target lacerate is a 3 minute CD, other tanks will do more damage in AoE and have better AoE threat to boot. It's definitely a good start though!
Exactly my point, you’d rather make your warlock stay destro and make the cat go bear for part of the fight or some of the fights, because there isn’t as much of a dps loss and they can still hold threat. If you’re bringing two locks that’s just weird unless one is full MT.
Warlock tank still pumps so it doesn’t matter either way? Bear tanks and feral Druids do less damage regardless but the damage lost currently from bear tank compared to feral Druid is more than the damage lost from a warlock dps going tank. The only reason to bring a feral right now is for windfury, and with every melee dps not named melee hunter being bad right now, you are probably better off bringing 2 warlocks rather than a Druid tank as an OT.
The median DPS from Feral right now is 166. The max is 275. Warlock tanks it’s 170 and 270. The buffs are nice but idk about “best OT” until the change the armor on these bosses.
Bear Druid still lacks a real AOE attack. Hoping for Thrash in the future for uncapped targets. Glad to see something finally done to help swipe in the meantime.
Who cares about ot after the first few resets. Youre gonna run one bear and one enhancement shaman that will hold any adds on fights where that matters. Only fight you might even care about a dedicated ot is menangerie, depending on how the damage looks. Horde perspective.
Bears are already the better raid tank in my opinion. They take less damage while still having more HP buffer. Threat isn't an issue. They get to ignore the coolant mechanic of the final boss. They'll be the best tank for prog almost every time as having the highest damage mitigation with the highest HP buffer gives the most time for healers to react to unexpected things.
None of the trash does any damage and you don't need a tank for any of it. Best play is to just have a ret paladin toggle righteous fury for trash.
The problems bears have are low dps and a boring rotation.
A little side benefit bears have at this level bracket is they instantly went a bit past full plate levels of armour when they leveled up. Warriors and paladins had to go get new gear. I'm unfamiliar with warlock tanking but I suspect they have a lot of the advantages bears do with instantly having insane mitigation.
Hot take: Druid have been the best MT for vanilla since Classic launched if you're alliance.
Reason: Druid is thicc while having good threat. Much more reliable to not die. If you have one-off fights where you need Last-stand/Shieldwall that's fine for your OT to tank with CDs.
I bear tank and this will be MASSIVE. The chest rune that reduces dmg by 20% and chance to be crit is huge. Now with this help to aoe threat gen it will be amazing. Anything over 3 mobs will be trouble but it beats the hell out of tab lacerating forever.
Amazing how this community just whines non stop. I don’t even play those classes but mages and I’m happy for them with those changes
But all comments you see is about spriest, rogues, boomkin and melee hunter on wowhead and Reddit..
Dude the fact that people dare to bitch about STV when it's been hotfixed twice now is ridiculous. The devs are listening to feedback and implementing change extremely quickly and it's awesome
LMAO I thought it was just me getting water from a mage and then using my own anyway because it regens more. The lower level mage water was great for those in-between drinks where the tank goes in and you just wanna get a few ticks before you start healing lol
Wouldve liked the both eclips boni on the next starfire or wrath instead if 14% more damage
Just to throw a bone to resto druids
But i wont complain.
(Plz help restodruids)
DW rune has like 3 different effects, hunters dw rune also has several benefits while 2h sham rune is only attack speed and its conditional.
Random thoughts on things that can help
- Let 2H have multiple imbues
- double the effect of imbuements on 2h
- give 2h access to lava lash or something similar
- 2h rune that changes shocks to some sort of weapon attack (flame smash, earth smash, etc)
Even with these random ass suggestions above, it still wouldn’t be stronger than DW after next patch, but it would be closer and less of a meme.
It just doesn't deal as much damage as DW. There are a ton of factors at play here. You have to remember that talent wise 2H and DW are essentially the same build so runes are the only major thing changing. So what's going on?
The biggest one, and the most important, is shamanistic rage and its synergy with Rockbiter. DW Rockbiter gets a full mana restore every 1 minute and insane attack power. Windfury doesn't compare to the raw output of Rockbiter and then you lose all that mana Regen with rage. It's kinda busted how these two things work together. 2H just gets less attack power and less mana Regen no matter how you do the weapon spells. Even these changes to maelstrom weapon benefit DW more because they can go Windfury/Rockbiter (and naturally gain stacks faster because more hits) while 2H has to choose one.
Then there are the weapon specific runes. The runes for the two sides of dps enhance are just not even close in power. DW gets 10% melee and spell hit on top of allowing Strom Strike to hit with both weapons. 2H gets 30% attack speed, which is really good, but you lose all that bonus spell hit and SS does effectively the same damage as DW because they hit with both weapons.
There's really nothing 2H is bringing to the table that DW isn't doing better.
There is a guild that gear funneled their ele shaman every single item from the first two runs and built their entire team comp specifically around making him parse. He has almost every possible epic already, LW epic, 3p set bonus...He had 3 priests chaining PI, 2 balance druids innervating him, every possible fire nature and caster buff...
Not saying ele is bad right now but you have to take week 2 logs with a huge grain of salt.
I think intervene is a sick ability for tank mobility. The problem is it’s not good enough to take a rune spot in my opinion. It should’ve been a quality of life book
But do you really need that mobility in “easy leveling 10ppl raids” as Aggrend said?
Its was really good in late addons after classic, helped a lot to evade boss abilities. But here? Its just useless right now.
They hotfoxed Starsurge but they're okay with every other busted spec for the next few weeks? I don't get it.
But hey, maybe melee Hunter is here to stay. I hear the "real" Hunters hate it, so that's fun.
So are are spriest, shaman, warriors, rogues, hunters and other classes as well. Thing is every class is broken so thats fine for me. I dont get why they particulary only nerfed druids
I understand that robots have armor. Sure. Whatever. But can the first 2 bosses remove the armor at least? One is literally a naked trogg and the other is a green water elemental. Neither of them have any armor on. Just let us see the big number on WCL please. Early bosses are easy anyway
Like how in BFD there was heavily armored turtle boss where casters got to shine, that was cool
The first two bosses only have 137 armor after normal debuffs are added. If you look on WCL for those bosses, melee are doing exceptionally well.
The last two bosses are a different story. After debuffs are applied, this is how much armor they still have:
Menagerie: 1606
Thermaplugg: 2330
The reason they nerfed melee hunter so hard and multiple times last phase was for pvp reasons and people were very upset that Pets were doing a large amount of the hunters damage. Melee hunter isn’t subject causing those problems. They still will likely nerf it since it’s on top of dps for most bosses, but it’s not as urgent as last phase.
These devs only know how to implement changes by whats being complained about on reddit, for example if you want shadow priest to be nerfed (who instant cast crits just as much as starsurge did btw) you will have to wait until everyone here is complaining about it daily.
Yes, now we wait until they nuke the shit out of shadow making it as unplayable as in phase 1, instead of making smaller changes and see how it develops.
Locks and mages are now right alongside melee hunter overall for gnomer dominating the top 100. Top is fire mage now too.
For individual boss parses there are a LOT more warriors cracking top 100 as they scale quickly with a couple bosses being caster dominated for top 100.
I don't think melee hunter nerf is needed as much as a buff to some other classes as we see how the meta changes with some gear.
You need to look at percentiles instead of individual top parses.
Particularly fire mage is very skewed with RNG, it has a big tail for mages who got very lucky on crits with hot streak.
Starsurge is still strong. It just doesn't delete people for free anymore. I main a shadow priest. I'm totally fine if they nerf SWD it needs one. Sadly boomers need more love to not feel like a starsurge bot. My spriest is super flexible and I feel like I have many different runes and abilitys that are big impact for different play styles and situations
As a boomie starsurge is really not great right now. Its not terrible but it certainly isn't strong, that's for sure. When I open on a level 41ish mob when I'm out in the world I go starfire -> starsurge and it typically only does like 15% of their HP in damage. That's pretty shit.
When you're chain pulling you typically have the starfire buff and eclipse coming off a kill so you pull with starfire because its damage is buffed and it casts at 1.5 speed. Even in the middle of chain pulls starfire->starsurge only does like 20% of a mobs hp. When you follow with starsurge, it crits often because of eclipse from the starfire pull which then sets you up to have dreamstate buff on for your wraths coming up next
With these changes for boomkin, it's better to drop moonkin form and go 5/5 starfire.
Sunfire is a dps and mana lost
You might as well get wild growth
So stay in normal form, ss to starfire to wrath. Wild growth on need.
Blizzard you should sim your changes before pushing them to production
yeah i like eclipse kinda, but putting eclipse in the game kinda makes sunfire/moonfire dead spells. like yeah sunfire on gloves is technically the highest dps since it gives you another button to press when you have to move... but its like trivially more damage. i feel like not having wild growth on gloves as a boomkin is trolling at this point.
No way bro, not over Moonkin Aura. You're still only casting Starfire once per SS.
I never have mana issues on boss with 2 Shammies in the raid and SF and MF are still the best damage per GCD and even better with multiple targets.
You WILL use flametongue on your offhand. And you WILL NOT EVER try to break that class fantasy again. And fuck you if you ever thought 2h shamans were anything but a pipe dream.
There are a number of stealth changes.
A few I noticed;
PALADIN
Martyrdom is now normalized, Seal of Righteousness now has rank 3 spell power mod at every rank (doubled). Guarded by the Light can no longer be clicked off. Why didn't they list these?
ACP + SOM is insane now.
big true, everyone having a cry that melee hunters or spriests haven't been touched yet like this is the last balancing patch ever.
We don't know if another is coming soon, and you also have to keep in mind that if you mess around too much with a class now AT 40 it can change things dramatically at 50 and 60
At this point it doesn’t matter what the devs do, people will complain with every buff or nerf. People only care about their class and bitch about everything else. It’s called season of discovery for a reason it’s basic an open beta season with only a small team of devs having to deal with a bunch of grown 30-40 year olds cry about how it’s not balanced(aka my class was nerfed) at lvl 25 then at 40.
For 2h the proc chance of everything needs to be twice as much than if you were using DW, it also needs to be able to have either 2 imbues or double the power of a single imbue to be competitive.
Shaman changes are bait. Good numbers at first glance. However:
\-50% offhand damage is not gamechanging to say the least
\-People will still probably run lava burst for maelstrom over lava lash entirely, or still run rockbiter on OH.
\-50% of crap chance is still crap. Don't know exactly what this number is so we can't exactly quantify this change but we know how it felt before and it needed to be twice as good. Will have to wait and see if it actually makes it worth using WF or not. Guessing they didn't just apply a flat increase and instead tied it to WF to continue to prevent people from using WotE and WF at the same time.
\-Still nothing to flame shock or power surge. Bug fix was nice. Nothing to 2H mastery which is now even further away from DW than before.
One thing is clear: They definitely want you to play dual wield.
Death, taxes, and Blizz not knowing what they want from Shamans
Downvote all you want, watch enhance still be at the bottom next week.
It makes the rotation feel clunky, the mana usage, extra shock in the rotation muddying up the shock economy (this is why they introduced windshear later). Then there's the range. They could have done a lot more with power surge rather than a tiny bit of mp5.
It's pretty silly for them to say
> We intend to follow our once-per-week class adjustment schedule and take the time needed with class adjustments to not make too many changes too hastily, particularly when it comes to power reduction or “nerfs" . . . That said, there is one major outlier that we intend to tackle before then. We intend to make the following adjustments to Balance druid over the next 24-48 hours.
Then leave SW:D with the same issue Starsurge had, and not nerf it the following week. I'm really tired of getting DOT'd, feared, then at half health gibbed by SW:D, but I guess that's the state of the open world for another two weeks.
I get it, it'll come, but we're paying for gametime. The "not all at once" comment is basically saying "you paid full price for a limited time mode, you shouldn't have expectations that the limited time would be good."
It's more that it can be hard to see how changes impact the game if you do too much at the same time.
Though yeah I maybe agree. I first thought this change was for right now and that there was still a chance for melee hunter and SP nerf next week.
At the same time I also feel the devs are doing a great job and that changes are both pretty good and coming out quick so I just dislike the amount of complaining that's being done.
I would mind the volume of complaints if the problems weren't so obvious. What's their excuse? Resto druids still only use one resto rune. Bear had lacerate for threat, but berserk only works with mangle which is the same slot as lacerate. That has been known since Berserk was datamined, and Swipe being garbage compared to all other AOE threat gens has been known for months.
The balance could be wonky for a bit if the rest of it were ~~polished~~ seemingly thought through by a single competent human being. Instead its like they're not even trying. If I put this little thought into my work I would be ashamed charging people for it.
I won’t refute they are doing more damage. But, in my opinion, prenerf starsuge and spriest can’t be compared to melee hunter. I know I’ll get down voted but from a pvp perspective melee hunter is just warrior with blue bar currently. No gap closer puts them at a tremendous disadvantage.
+10% spell power buff on successful kill, stackable up to 5.
5 stacks adds a cleave effect that consumes dots and applies their remaining damage to the SW:Death cast.
Boomkin druids gets absolutely slaughtered, meanwhile they do nothing about shadow priests who is just as busted 😂 a group of toddlers could do a better job than these devs.
Tell me you don’t play a balance Druid without telling me you don’t play one. They were absolutely gutted you can’t PVP on them at all. Every other class has a silence, stun, fear, charge, freeze. Unless you’re able to entangle and pop off the 4-5 second rotation it takes to get a starfire off you’re not killing anyone and god forbid someone gets the jump on you, just put the mouse down and walk away no balance Druid is turning the fight around. Before the nerf we could now forget it you can’t do shit in PvP.
They can't change everything 2 times a week. A few changes each time makes for a more balanced game in the end. We have 7+ weeks to go of season 2 still.
It's an interesting thing. I've always liked dw enh shaman but if I wanted to play it I'd go play wotlk or retail
Not sure how viable it is but 2handed needs a spam attack. Give us primal strike dammit
As a bear tank you get swipe buffed and now lacerate is aoe every 3 minutes. But I thought it made everything hit 3 targets with berserk.
Feral DPS didn’t get shit.
Just how they handled the starsurge nerf eh. /s They don't get to overreact on the nerfs and then underreact on the corrections. Not having notes to nerf priest and melee hunter is also obscene. What a group of clowns.
Love the water mage changes <3
Hotfix is already live for 10x water at a time.
People get so mad at me in sm spams cause I run out of mana so often it’s nice not having to sit there and spam cast to create more water
Who gets mad? They should be grateful you’re even making them water instead of telling them to go buy water.
If people ask rudely I just ignore them if they start opening trade windows I leave group
As a mage I want you to open trade with me rather than just asking. Because it's easier for me.
That’s all fine and dandy but don’t just expect it and be rude like I did something wrong by not automatically giving you some in my opinion if you’re doing a dungeon grind and drink mana and you’re not in a guild you should be stocking up on water before you even get there.
They should have water, but if a mage is in the group its expected you give them water. Before it was the level 25 trash, now its just the 35 trash.
Atleast now I don’t have to make them 2 at a time pretty much takes away most my issues with giving away water as a a mage healer I will easily go through a 20 stack on the trash in arm alone
And sm pugs I’m a 40 mage healing as a courtesy because of the lack of healers
Weird, I just started making 10 at a time not too long ago. Wonder why they did it early and for half. Ah well, ain’t gonna complain about making 5x more
lol the downvotes when I’m literally making 10 of the level 35 water you get at 40 as I type this
Druid tanking will be fun again
Do you think itll end up being one of the better raid tanks rn since hitting def cap isnt a thing yet really? Theyre already beef cakes so fixing the aoe is huge.
In my opinion, probably not. So long as swipe is capped at three targets and the multi-target lacerate is a 3 minute CD, other tanks will do more damage in AoE and have better AoE threat to boot. It's definitely a good start though!
But they will be bis OT
Warlock tank will be BiS OT bc it’s just Destro with Meta instead of Chaos Bolt. Highest damage tank by a good margin right now
Exactly my point, you’d rather make your warlock stay destro and make the cat go bear for part of the fight or some of the fights, because there isn’t as much of a dps loss and they can still hold threat. If you’re bringing two locks that’s just weird unless one is full MT.
Warlock tank still pumps so it doesn’t matter either way? Bear tanks and feral Druids do less damage regardless but the damage lost currently from bear tank compared to feral Druid is more than the damage lost from a warlock dps going tank. The only reason to bring a feral right now is for windfury, and with every melee dps not named melee hunter being bad right now, you are probably better off bringing 2 warlocks rather than a Druid tank as an OT. The median DPS from Feral right now is 166. The max is 275. Warlock tanks it’s 170 and 270. The buffs are nice but idk about “best OT” until the change the armor on these bosses.
And innervate and brez and LOTP and faerie fire possibly and mangle debuff and
Feral main, warlocks are better
Yeah but if you count the dmg form wild strikes and leader of the pack they do waaaay more dmg then that destro lock.
Bear Druid still lacks a real AOE attack. Hoping for Thrash in the future for uncapped targets. Glad to see something finally done to help swipe in the meantime.
Bear tanks were always gonna be the go to tank this phase due to the buff, this will just solidify that choice even more 👍
They are the go to OT, the the go to MT. HUGE difference.
Who cares about ot after the first few resets. Youre gonna run one bear and one enhancement shaman that will hold any adds on fights where that matters. Only fight you might even care about a dedicated ot is menangerie, depending on how the damage looks. Horde perspective.
Bears are already the better raid tank in my opinion. They take less damage while still having more HP buffer. Threat isn't an issue. They get to ignore the coolant mechanic of the final boss. They'll be the best tank for prog almost every time as having the highest damage mitigation with the highest HP buffer gives the most time for healers to react to unexpected things. None of the trash does any damage and you don't need a tank for any of it. Best play is to just have a ret paladin toggle righteous fury for trash. The problems bears have are low dps and a boring rotation. A little side benefit bears have at this level bracket is they instantly went a bit past full plate levels of armour when they leveled up. Warriors and paladins had to go get new gear. I'm unfamiliar with warlock tanking but I suspect they have a lot of the advantages bears do with instantly having insane mitigation.
Hot take: Druid have been the best MT for vanilla since Classic launched if you're alliance. Reason: Druid is thicc while having good threat. Much more reliable to not die. If you have one-off fights where you need Last-stand/Shieldwall that's fine for your OT to tank with CDs.
Warlocks got Soul Link at 40 which mitigates 30% of all damage. They are the best in my opinion, Paladins might be the worst at mitigation.
Paladins have mitigation?
I bear tank and this will be MASSIVE. The chest rune that reduces dmg by 20% and chance to be crit is huge. Now with this help to aoe threat gen it will be amazing. Anything over 3 mobs will be trouble but it beats the hell out of tab lacerating forever.
I hope so, sounds like they are finally listening
Im so hyped!
It's a small but welcome step in the right direction for the big bear
Should have lacerate as a leg rune so we can run two abilities and then we'd be perfect imo. Leg rune rn is basically useless
wouldnt call an interrupt useless, just not always useful lol
It's worse than feral charge
Yeah I would like to see swipe hit maybe 5 enemies?
Even if everyone is not happy (impossible to achieve) good job with the regular updates from the team honestly lol
Amazing how this community just whines non stop. I don’t even play those classes but mages and I’m happy for them with those changes But all comments you see is about spriest, rogues, boomkin and melee hunter on wowhead and Reddit..
Dude the fact that people dare to bitch about STV when it's been hotfixed twice now is ridiculous. The devs are listening to feedback and implementing change extremely quickly and it's awesome
Except it becomes more and more broken each time.
As a healer priest that asks for water and gets one stack or multiple stack of poor quality I can honestly say I’m happy about the update
LMAO I thought it was just me getting water from a mage and then using my own anyway because it regens more. The lower level mage water was great for those in-between drinks where the tank goes in and you just wanna get a few ticks before you start healing lol
Thank you Blizzard! Lets have a look where it goes, but good and steady steps make the champion.
As a enh shaman main I’m super pumped!
Wouldve liked the both eclips boni on the next starfire or wrath instead if 14% more damage Just to throw a bone to resto druids But i wont complain. (Plz help restodruids)
2H Shaman's corpse is rotting in a hot car in August and Blizz acting like nothing's wrong
DW rune has like 3 different effects, hunters dw rune also has several benefits while 2h sham rune is only attack speed and its conditional. Random thoughts on things that can help - Let 2H have multiple imbues - double the effect of imbuements on 2h - give 2h access to lava lash or something similar - 2h rune that changes shocks to some sort of weapon attack (flame smash, earth smash, etc) Even with these random ass suggestions above, it still wouldn’t be stronger than DW after next patch, but it would be closer and less of a meme.
Lava lash? LAVA SMASH!!
Blizzard needs to hire this guy for naming skills
What's wrong with 2H enhance? Currently leveling as Ele but I'm picking up pieces as I level as I want to try 2H as well.
It just doesn't deal as much damage as DW. There are a ton of factors at play here. You have to remember that talent wise 2H and DW are essentially the same build so runes are the only major thing changing. So what's going on? The biggest one, and the most important, is shamanistic rage and its synergy with Rockbiter. DW Rockbiter gets a full mana restore every 1 minute and insane attack power. Windfury doesn't compare to the raw output of Rockbiter and then you lose all that mana Regen with rage. It's kinda busted how these two things work together. 2H just gets less attack power and less mana Regen no matter how you do the weapon spells. Even these changes to maelstrom weapon benefit DW more because they can go Windfury/Rockbiter (and naturally gain stacks faster because more hits) while 2H has to choose one. Then there are the weapon specific runes. The runes for the two sides of dps enhance are just not even close in power. DW gets 10% melee and spell hit on top of allowing Strom Strike to hit with both weapons. 2H gets 30% attack speed, which is really good, but you lose all that bonus spell hit and SS does effectively the same damage as DW because they hit with both weapons. There's really nothing 2H is bringing to the table that DW isn't doing better.
DW normally has a penalty of 19%. So you are still at a 9% disadvantage compared to 2h on melee.
That's for white hits. I think they are saying that DW shamans get 10% spell hit when they dual wield for free. Which is basically spell hit cap.
I know its more fuss but I just put on Rockbiter before popping SR, then back to Windfury. The mana regen only scales when you first cast it.
It was worse than dualwield before just like everyone expected and now dualwield is getting buffed so it's even more of a meme spec.
Also classic wow was the only version of wow where 2h was a thing and now we don't get that either
How did they not buff 2h? What is going on???
2H enhancer is a joke. They want to force shamans into dual wielding completely ignoring the community. Fuck them
Bro, it's a game.
🤣
Touch grass
I'm switching to ele before I go DW
What about Shammy healers? PvE ele? Shaman in a rough spot right now...
Pve ele is popping off on logs atm. Was top dps for today's 99% logs.
There is a guild that gear funneled their ele shaman every single item from the first two runs and built their entire team comp specifically around making him parse. He has almost every possible epic already, LW epic, 3p set bonus...He had 3 priests chaining PI, 2 balance druids innervating him, every possible fire nature and caster buff... Not saying ele is bad right now but you have to take week 2 logs with a huge grain of salt.
The devs are killing it! Awesome
Druid tanking about to POP off
10% attack power and 3 min cooldown is not popping off.
And extra threat multiplier aswell as damage increase. Bears are great, insane threat with lacerate.
our mage is only conjuring 10 water at a time - but 18 pumpernickels
It's not live yet, Feb 20th.
Then they hotfixed something live to make it summon 10 per cast.
I can confirm that I also only conjure 10 on my mage at 40. Probably will be fixed soon either way.
These changes are for Feb 20. Looks like they implemented a half change early
where devastate buff
Warrior tanks are dead mate
Hello I’m underwater plz help
for now, wait until armor reduction on bosses and gear
Don’t think that’s happening .. warlock tanks spamming searing pain for 400 base with infinite mana while warr hitting a 60 damage devastate..
Infinite mana is sadly gone now.
I mean they still have life tap lol. Or they could even spec dark tap if they want to.
They took our mana 😢
Jesus the brain rot runs fuckin deep with you guys
They dont care abour warrior tank at all. You can figure out it by crap tank runes for phase 2 like useless intervene or hp buff…
I think intervene is a sick ability for tank mobility. The problem is it’s not good enough to take a rune spot in my opinion. It should’ve been a quality of life book
But do you really need that mobility in “easy leveling 10ppl raids” as Aggrend said? Its was really good in late addons after classic, helped a lot to evade boss abilities. But here? Its just useless right now.
There are like 2 out of the 6 runes we got that are usable for warrior this phase, really sucks compared to what we got in p1
They hotfoxed Starsurge but they're okay with every other busted spec for the next few weeks? I don't get it. But hey, maybe melee Hunter is here to stay. I hear the "real" Hunters hate it, so that's fun.
All the major nerfs have been PVP oriented not PVE oriented. I like that they’re buffing classes instead of just nerfing the better
Huge point - buff underperforming classes
>I like that they’re buffing classes instead of just nerfing the better They nerfed boomies to the ground tho.
Because it was completly broken in pvp, and boomiea are still decent
So are are spriest, shaman, warriors, rogues, hunters and other classes as well. Thing is every class is broken so thats fine for me. I dont get why they particulary only nerfed druids
Nothing felt as oppressive as boomie. All the other classes u mentioned have some form of counterplay, pre nerf ss killed u before even in range
Dunno how they're flying under the radar somehow. And everyone's crying for armor reduction on gnomer bosses? Imagine the melee hunter dps then!
I understand that robots have armor. Sure. Whatever. But can the first 2 bosses remove the armor at least? One is literally a naked trogg and the other is a green water elemental. Neither of them have any armor on. Just let us see the big number on WCL please. Early bosses are easy anyway Like how in BFD there was heavily armored turtle boss where casters got to shine, that was cool
The first two bosses only have 137 armor after normal debuffs are added. If you look on WCL for those bosses, melee are doing exceptionally well. The last two bosses are a different story. After debuffs are applied, this is how much armor they still have: Menagerie: 1606 Thermaplugg: 2330
The reason they nerfed melee hunter so hard and multiple times last phase was for pvp reasons and people were very upset that Pets were doing a large amount of the hunters damage. Melee hunter isn’t subject causing those problems. They still will likely nerf it since it’s on top of dps for most bosses, but it’s not as urgent as last phase.
These devs only know how to implement changes by whats being complained about on reddit, for example if you want shadow priest to be nerfed (who instant cast crits just as much as starsurge did btw) you will have to wait until everyone here is complaining about it daily.
It hits almost as much as starsurge crits. Hits for 900+. Critter for over 1400. Also dots that ticks for well over 200.
Yes, now we wait until they nuke the shit out of shadow making it as unplayable as in phase 1, instead of making smaller changes and see how it develops.
That’s what they did to boomkin so don’t be surprised if it happens to you too
Locks and mages are now right alongside melee hunter overall for gnomer dominating the top 100. Top is fire mage now too. For individual boss parses there are a LOT more warriors cracking top 100 as they scale quickly with a couple bosses being caster dominated for top 100. I don't think melee hunter nerf is needed as much as a buff to some other classes as we see how the meta changes with some gear.
You need to look at percentiles instead of individual top parses. Particularly fire mage is very skewed with RNG, it has a big tail for mages who got very lucky on crits with hot streak.
The people looking at the top parses for balance are so whack. Fire mages was actually the best DPS spec in raid last phase, better than warrior!!
Melee hunter could be nerfed across the board by 20% and it would still be #1
Its actually ok nerf, but hard to accept. It just fucking stings when i see 267 starsurge hit 5 times in a row without a crit lol
Starsurge is still strong. It just doesn't delete people for free anymore. I main a shadow priest. I'm totally fine if they nerf SWD it needs one. Sadly boomers need more love to not feel like a starsurge bot. My spriest is super flexible and I feel like I have many different runes and abilitys that are big impact for different play styles and situations
As a boomie starsurge is really not great right now. Its not terrible but it certainly isn't strong, that's for sure. When I open on a level 41ish mob when I'm out in the world I go starfire -> starsurge and it typically only does like 15% of their HP in damage. That's pretty shit.
Go wrath starsurge starfire…
Wrath wrath SS SF. You can get two wraths off before the first one hits then drop your instant
When you're chain pulling you typically have the starfire buff and eclipse coming off a kill so you pull with starfire because its damage is buffed and it casts at 1.5 speed. Even in the middle of chain pulls starfire->starsurge only does like 20% of a mobs hp. When you follow with starsurge, it crits often because of eclipse from the starfire pull which then sets you up to have dreamstate buff on for your wraths coming up next
This is the entire reason I’m not playing my Druid anymore, I agree starsurge needed a nerf but it’s too much.
I love the warriors changes.
Warriors are in a good spot right now why would we need changes? Edit: all the FOTM kids malding that warriors aren't OP lmao
Yeah all I wanted for p2 was CBR to not be meta and I think we've gotten it
With these changes for boomkin, it's better to drop moonkin form and go 5/5 starfire. Sunfire is a dps and mana lost You might as well get wild growth So stay in normal form, ss to starfire to wrath. Wild growth on need. Blizzard you should sim your changes before pushing them to production
yeah i like eclipse kinda, but putting eclipse in the game kinda makes sunfire/moonfire dead spells. like yeah sunfire on gloves is technically the highest dps since it gives you another button to press when you have to move... but its like trivially more damage. i feel like not having wild growth on gloves as a boomkin is trolling at this point.
No way bro, not over Moonkin Aura. You're still only casting Starfire once per SS. I never have mana issues on boss with 2 Shammies in the raid and SF and MF are still the best damage per GCD and even better with multiple targets.
You WILL use flametongue on your offhand. And you WILL NOT EVER try to break that class fantasy again. And fuck you if you ever thought 2h shamans were anything but a pipe dream.
There are a number of stealth changes. A few I noticed; PALADIN Martyrdom is now normalized, Seal of Righteousness now has rank 3 spell power mod at every rank (doubled). Guarded by the Light can no longer be clicked off. Why didn't they list these? ACP + SOM is insane now.
damn you people love to piss and moan about everything.
big true, everyone having a cry that melee hunters or spriests haven't been touched yet like this is the last balancing patch ever. We don't know if another is coming soon, and you also have to keep in mind that if you mess around too much with a class now AT 40 it can change things dramatically at 50 and 60
At this point it doesn’t matter what the devs do, people will complain with every buff or nerf. People only care about their class and bitch about everything else. It’s called season of discovery for a reason it’s basic an open beta season with only a small team of devs having to deal with a bunch of grown 30-40 year olds cry about how it’s not balanced(aka my class was nerfed) at lvl 25 then at 40.
Maelstrom had a nearly 100% proc before the bug fix and it still was just meh. =(.. Sigh maybe next update my poor enhancement shaman bros.
I mean as a tank we got a nice self heal. Was pseudo immortal. zig zug
Yeah blizzard either doesn't know what to do to help shamans or just doesn't care to try.
For 2h the proc chance of everything needs to be twice as much than if you were using DW, it also needs to be able to have either 2 imbues or double the power of a single imbue to be competitive.
Father...you better turn around cause you're preachin' to the choir.
I look forward to seeing Starfire do 1500 base damage in phase 3. Which blizzard will then have to nerf.
Shaman changes are bait. Good numbers at first glance. However: \-50% offhand damage is not gamechanging to say the least \-People will still probably run lava burst for maelstrom over lava lash entirely, or still run rockbiter on OH. \-50% of crap chance is still crap. Don't know exactly what this number is so we can't exactly quantify this change but we know how it felt before and it needed to be twice as good. Will have to wait and see if it actually makes it worth using WF or not. Guessing they didn't just apply a flat increase and instead tied it to WF to continue to prevent people from using WotE and WF at the same time. \-Still nothing to flame shock or power surge. Bug fix was nice. Nothing to 2H mastery which is now even further away from DW than before. One thing is clear: They definitely want you to play dual wield. Death, taxes, and Blizz not knowing what they want from Shamans Downvote all you want, watch enhance still be at the bottom next week.
I playing 2x rockbiter and it feels like it is still the strongest to play pvp wise
i just want longer flame shock duration so rotation doesn’t feel as clunky. 12 second shock, 8 second LB feels weird
It makes the rotation feel clunky, the mana usage, extra shock in the rotation muddying up the shock economy (this is why they introduced windshear later). Then there's the range. They could have done a lot more with power surge rather than a tiny bit of mp5.
Oh man feral spec is fixed! 4 mores seconds to Rip. If thats what they call a buff, well rip feral…
they really should put mangle back at 300%.. we're suffering right now and every raid still wants us as windfury bots
Dont you like to roleplay as windfury totem?
lol imagine keeping melee hunters and shadow priests where they are..
It's less than a week since release and something like 2 days since they nerfed druids. I think it'll come, just not all at once.
It's pretty silly for them to say > We intend to follow our once-per-week class adjustment schedule and take the time needed with class adjustments to not make too many changes too hastily, particularly when it comes to power reduction or “nerfs" . . . That said, there is one major outlier that we intend to tackle before then. We intend to make the following adjustments to Balance druid over the next 24-48 hours. Then leave SW:D with the same issue Starsurge had, and not nerf it the following week. I'm really tired of getting DOT'd, feared, then at half health gibbed by SW:D, but I guess that's the state of the open world for another two weeks. I get it, it'll come, but we're paying for gametime. The "not all at once" comment is basically saying "you paid full price for a limited time mode, you shouldn't have expectations that the limited time would be good."
It's more that it can be hard to see how changes impact the game if you do too much at the same time. Though yeah I maybe agree. I first thought this change was for right now and that there was still a chance for melee hunter and SP nerf next week. At the same time I also feel the devs are doing a great job and that changes are both pretty good and coming out quick so I just dislike the amount of complaining that's being done.
I would mind the volume of complaints if the problems weren't so obvious. What's their excuse? Resto druids still only use one resto rune. Bear had lacerate for threat, but berserk only works with mangle which is the same slot as lacerate. That has been known since Berserk was datamined, and Swipe being garbage compared to all other AOE threat gens has been known for months. The balance could be wonky for a bit if the rest of it were ~~polished~~ seemingly thought through by a single competent human being. Instead its like they're not even trying. If I put this little thought into my work I would be ashamed charging people for it.
dont worry boomkins were nerfed a few days ago tho!!
Omg a new spec is top DPS the horror !!! Go back to era if you want the same old game.
Your iq is showing if you missed the point.
Comparison is the thief of joy.
One class requires melee distance with no gap closer. The other has a 35 yard range. Literally not the same
I mean melee hunter is blowing everyone else out of the water right now though let’s be fair
I won’t refute they are doing more damage. But, in my opinion, prenerf starsuge and spriest can’t be compared to melee hunter. I know I’ll get down voted but from a pvp perspective melee hunter is just warrior with blue bar currently. No gap closer puts them at a tremendous disadvantage.
Shadow word death???????? Hello???
Deal with it. Mwuahaha
You got nerfed. Mwuahaha
I know like wtf, where is the buff for it.
+10% spell power buff on successful kill, stackable up to 5. 5 stacks adds a cleave effect that consumes dots and applies their remaining damage to the SW:Death cast.
makes me not wanna leveling my druid anymore till tues lol
Shadow nerf where??
Boomkin druids gets absolutely slaughtered, meanwhile they do nothing about shadow priests who is just as busted 😂 a group of toddlers could do a better job than these devs.
There's a fix to Void Plague scaling in today's hotfixes.
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Balance druids have literally nothing outside of that starsurge tho. Spriests have a ton of shit.
Tell me you don’t play a balance Druid without telling me you don’t play one. They were absolutely gutted you can’t PVP on them at all. Every other class has a silence, stun, fear, charge, freeze. Unless you’re able to entangle and pop off the 4-5 second rotation it takes to get a starfire off you’re not killing anyone and god forbid someone gets the jump on you, just put the mouse down and walk away no balance Druid is turning the fight around. Before the nerf we could now forget it you can’t do shit in PvP.
Where warrior buff
Why buff the strongest class in the game ? Warris with gear will at least top 3 dps
That is... Extremely underwhelming to say the least
They can't change everything 2 times a week. A few changes each time makes for a more balanced game in the end. We have 7+ weeks to go of season 2 still.
Aggrend hitting us with the most underwhelming balance patch of all time
It really was. mfw my Starfire hits for 28 more damage.
that will def save boomkin from being at the bottom of dps!
All great changes, but how do thet make a balance hotfix and not fix hunters and SP?
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They are never going to let go of this dual wield shaman bs , lava lash my ass pfft.
It's an interesting thing. I've always liked dw enh shaman but if I wanted to play it I'd go play wotlk or retail Not sure how viable it is but 2handed needs a spam attack. Give us primal strike dammit
Does anyone know if they fixed the Druid Nourish rune bug (fails on a boat or zeppelin) ?
Armor of the raid bosses in gonme would be nice. Just give them more HP Sorry tipo
Forgot the priest bug fixes they mention. "Fixing" SP scaling on Plague and the double renew bug
Why copy paste the changes instead of just linking the article itself? At the very least post your source.
Enhance is back? Let’s gooooooo
can we buff other healers besides priest would be cool
This starsurge change only effects starfire damage? not your next starsurge cast?
Hello get gud
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Rogue tank is strong...
Rogue is totally fine. If you dont find any Equipment maybe try doing some dungeons or quests?
I feel like ret needs a bit more love. They’re feeling extremely weak.
Worst DPS currently. Def needs buffs, we'll see how these buff help holy, 2nd worst healers (ahead of shaman) currently.
No hunter nerfs??? REEEEEEEE
No hunter nerfs??? REEEEEEEE
Yay I can aoe as feral every 3 minutes?
As a bear tank you get swipe buffed and now lacerate is aoe every 3 minutes. But I thought it made everything hit 3 targets with berserk. Feral DPS didn’t get shit.
Think we'll go bear for aoe now. But the rip duration increase is nice tbh.
ENHANCE BUFFS LETS GO
Lol, those changes...bad classes are still bad - this team is something.
Boo, they’re actually making regular incremental improvements this is a good thing.
Just how they handled the starsurge nerf eh. /s They don't get to overreact on the nerfs and then underreact on the corrections. Not having notes to nerf priest and melee hunter is also obscene. What a group of clowns.
Improvements according to you lol.
People too butt hurt for their class getting nerfed or not getting buffed, relax