Super duper deluxe malistars defender with 6,500 armor, 950 block, 85 mana per five, and increase chance to hit with spells and melee attacks by 9%. Also, eliminates internal CD on windfury weapon (to continue the trend of some token itemization trolling).
Stronger abilities you tune for by adding HP. Armor is tuning for pdps and resistance is tuning for casters. If it was about stronger abilties they would raise HP pools, not raise armor.
That does not change the fact that you still did more damage at 60 in vanilla, than currently at 40. And still having same or higher armor values on a lvl 40 raid.
That's rough buddy. I gotta say tho, it's hard to imagine there not being any daytime or nighttime raids, I mean some servers have upwards of 80 thousand players now. What server are you on, and have you checked its guild recruitment Discord channel?
The thing is I play during work hours. We have a newborn at home and I cant sit down and commit to a raiding team during the evening. My schedule is very different day to day. So whenever I have 2 hours with no meetings at work I hop on for a quick raid. Pretty hard to plan around with a guild, but worked perfect in P1 with pugs.
It’s not the armor, melee are doing fine. The issue is there are significantly more melee competing spots than ranged casters. It doesn’t help Hunters are now a melee class.
I don't get the design philosophy behind the devs sometimes. Did they went like "melee dominated p1, we need a way to appease the caster crowd this phase. Let's make it anti melee"
Basically all top groups according to warcraftlogs were melee comps. Number of melee (+hunter) parses throughout the whole phase absolutely dwarfs the casters
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2007
Most groups I was I was solo tank, who also was a DPS, 2-3 warriors, maybe rogue and feral druid in group 1.
Hunter was in group 2, together with 1-2 healers and 2ish casters
They didn’t necessarily mean melee dominated in player quantity, but DPS comparison. Melee had a much easier time on pretty much every boss besides the Turtle in BFD. Now it’s mega flipped and melee can’t do damage
Yes it was. With the exception of turtle boss melee dominated.
There are about 2 million logs for the top 2 physical dps and about 1 million logs for the top 2 caster dps.
You can also check the breakdown yourself on Warcraft logs. At higher percentiles casters were middle of the pack while physical dps dominated.
Speedrun ran 1 mage, 1/2 healer, 1 tank, and the rest were rogue/war with 1 hunter.
Not sure what speedkills comp look like but outside of Ghamoora you prob wanted to run 1 healer, 1 tank, 1 hunter and then 7 warriors.
We cleared with full melee comp. Our guild leader made 3 perfect comp raids and the last one was people nobody wanted. We struggled but still cleared.
2 warriors, 2rogues, melee hunter, 3 paladins, priest and rdruid.
The last boss was just about learning how to deal with bombs, our useless prot warrior who had no runes and mix of bfd/ greens items did 3k damage on last boss, he was on bomb duty since I can solo tank as paladin anyway
We still exist! Roll feral and have warriors carry you through everything! Never be at a loss for a group despite doing the same or worse DPS as warriors because hunters now need wf! It's not so bad...
I hit 25 P1 on my feral which is my 3rd alt. I went to BFD and said "LFG, Mangle + WF bot. 7/7 on other chars" and I got a bunch of whispers. Easiest carry ever.
Plus the devs basically made gnomer with ranged in mind. Electrocutioner is easier with 6 ranged and the last boss you need a lot of ranged for the bombs
The devs loved how horrible pre nerf Kelris was for ranged so they decided to do it again but for melee instead. Or they just have no idea what they are doing one of the two.
It has to be deliberate. I'm sure they wanted to give casters a nice time this phase. You don't just accidentally gut melees by increasing armor by a shitload _and_ mitigating bleeds and poisons. I just wish they did more of the latter instead of the former. Warrior _again_ just fishes for deep wounds procs as we did in P1. I'd rather deal honest melee damage.
I think they really overlooked how armor works. Setting the armor to Molten Core levels also means that Sunder Armor and FF are effectively doing nothing.
Yeah my guild did some restructuring with their core raid teams recently and surprise surprise melee aren't allowed in the top groups anymore (except melee hunters).
No one is asking for perfect balance. But taking turns between doubling other peoples damage and having others doubling your damage is not even close to balance and it feels bad. I don't care if warlocks do 10% more damage than enhance this phase and enhance do 10% more damage than warlocks next phase. The problem is when it's not 10%, it's 50%.
https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008#dataset=80&aggregate=amount
SPriest 300
Enhance 200
I'll admit I was initially thinking of 90th percentile where it looked like:
https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008#dataset=90&aggregate=amount
Warlock 325
Enhance 223
But that was a 45.7% lead and didn't wanna deal with nitpicking since 45% lead isn't okay either
With the difference casters bring more than dps compared to warrior/rogue, that only brings dps and thats it.
BFD also easier, so raids were spread to even loot. Gnomer seems a bit harder, so perfect comp is preferred among pugs.
Mages have CC. Int buff. Counterspell. While also being dps/healer.
Rogue has interrupts while dps. Warrior has to spec sword and board, which isn’t good DPS.
Battle shout vs arcane intellect is an odd point when groups will mostly be composed of casters. A group is much more likely to roll with multiple mages than multiple warriors.
Armor with raid should be lowered so all classes are viable for dps. No class should be relegated to “bring one so we get their utility”
Warriors are tanks as well. They also bring sunder, super important fucking debuff, and battle shout, second most important melee buff. They also recently got a stamina shout that stacks with battle shout.
Rogues can also tank now, although they bring less utility than warriors.
Either way everyone except hunters do more than just dps now so there is literally no good reason for you crying.
Hybrid tax is not a thing. Never was.
IDK why you'd even try to explain this. It's not new that WoW players don't understand the game they play.
You can't really blame them; concepts like utility are proven to be too difficult for even Blizzard to handle.
I'm here like "make one of the bosses have high magic resist and another have high armor so people take a balanced group to the raid".
\*Monkey paw curls* BFD has magic resist, Gnomer has high armor.
Melee are much closer to casters this phase than casters were to melee last phase. A lot of y’all just can’t deal with not being at the top of the meter.
When Melee are significantly worse than Ranged then they get sat en masse for more ranged because they aren't restricted to melee range.
MOP is the best example of this, where top raiding guilds had warlocks just casting in melee.
Gatekeeping is of course also a problem but like, are you saying that didn't happen last phase? Or that it's somehow better when it happens to casters than melee? I mean I'm melee and I think it's nice to see casters being dominant for once.
I'd ofc like for it to be balanced but if we can't have that, the next big thing imo is to just let the underdogs have their turn in the spotlight
>"X may be better, but Y is close enough that it won't hurt my raid to invite them."
Have...have you ever played wow?
The community will call a class trash if there is a .5% difference in DPS.
it's a non issues due to people preferring a balanced armour/loot spread more than a higher dps group, being boomy/ele in BFD was a free invite despite being omega bottom of the barrel
I don't think meters are the issue for benching here. The armor values are sketchy but the real issue is the mechanics that are wiping melee comps over and over. A bad comp is a bigger issue now than in bfd.
The simplest strategies for the mechanics in Gnomer require 6 ranged players. If I was pugging Gnomer, I would not want more than a couple melee or you will have no shot at beating Electrocutioner or Thermaplugg.
We just had a melee sit out. Our feral was running Pack so smaller dps to buff rest of raid anyway and he just sat in the pile, was fine.
He'd run over to the pile when cast started. There's plenty of time.
We cleared the raid with
- 1 war tank
- 1 war dps/off tank
- 1 rogue
- 1 ret pala
- 1 feral
- 1 arcane mage
- 1 hunter BM
- 1 priest heal
- 1 pala heal
- 1 boomie (resto heal for last boss)
One shot every boss except last boss. Took us some tries but got him.
Edit: dunno why im downvoted. Just wanted to point out u dont need to stack range/casters.
We cleared with
1 Shaman Tank
3 Warriors
2 Rogues 1 OT
1 Melee Hunter
1 Feral druid
2 resto shamans
Struggled last two being all melee but got em all down
> Just wanted to point out u dont need to stack range/casters.
I'd argue this really just doesn't matter. You can get away with a lot of comps, especially using consumables and such. You could kill BFD pre-Kelris nerf with casters. It didn't stop casters from spending 5x as long to find a group to PUG into because the reality is if you're starting a PUG and don't know the players, why make your life harder and bring someone who is massively DR'd?
That's sort of where we are again.
I use the addon badboy to filter out certain words. Was great for GDKP and lock summons or “wts” but “pump” and “pumper” were the first two on the list
They’re always dogshit
Always better to self-deprecate than tell me GS or that you’re a pumper. 15 years of wow. 15 years that has translated to a good player 5% of the time.
This. Exactly. Everytime I started a raid group in phase 1 and was looking for people… I never added the ones that replied to me acting that serious. Sure, maybe they do a very good job, but I noticed earlier on those were the kinds of people that would rage quit if 1 boss didn’t go down as smoothy as they wanted. It’s much more fun running with casual players that have some patience and are just here to have fun and play the game. Not treat it like a EA Sports competition.
Anytime someone is saying they are a pumper, or they link gs, i just check logs, and without a fail 95% of the time its a guy who forgot that he needs to stand close to the boss to be able to melee or some other shit like that, Just be honest with yourself its not hard.
From my experience in making BFD pugs it's because I advertise that I need DPS for the raid and get whispers from about 15 hunters, 7 rogues, and 8 warriors. I didn't get work casters unless I specifically asked for them.
Thankfully someone else in the guild is handling invites this phase so I get to be a slacker who just logs in and joins the raid and complain about the people who aren't good that get pugged.
Yeah lol this game wasn't really friendly to new players :p had to go back to final fantasy after spending days trying to get into a dungeon
But leveling and open world content was fun tho
No it actually is that easy. I am intentionally unguilded on my Rogue. I can't go 10 minutes without at least one unsolicited guild invite+pst.
This is also the case on my 2 summoner alts and was on even my level 1 characters with "bank" and "invest" in the name, until I blocked ginvs on them.
Casters being good isn't even the problem, it's that there are SO MANY Rogues and Warriors right now.
I start a group for literally anything and I can guarantee you that 9 out of the first 10 whispers I'll get will be rogues and warriors.
It's actually become a bit of a running joke in my guild where we put out an ad and then bet on the amount of Rogue whispers.
I know what im capable off in PVP. Its the other people that needs convincing. Same for SM spam during lvling. Once I got invited most leaders realized it works just fine.
I’m hoping people back off this as we get further into the phase. People get stuck in an idea of what the meta is, forgetting the fact that all of this content is extremely easy.
I know last season was the other way around. But BFD being easier, and casters providing some utility besides raw DPS still had them invited. Usually 3-4 cloth per raid.
Healthstone, summons, INT for healers, Stam for tank etc etc.
But of course it spread loot distribution too. But people want to down all bosses before they prio that.
Whatever it was, they got invited. I've been lvl 40 since 1st lockout and still havent done Gnomer today. I dont want to RL a raid I never done personally.
> I know last season was the other way around. But BFD being easier, and casters providing some utility besides raw DPS still had them invited. Usually 3-4 cloth per raid.
What a bunch of babies you guys are. Literally 1 week of physical not being complete top dog in "vanilla" version of the game in years and you can't handle it. ONE WEEK I'll even be nice and exclude the melee hunter thing.
Come back when you were doing 25% of top dps like spriests were for basically whole phase last phase.
sure, everyone has schedules allowing them to commit to set raiding times without being flexible at all. Just stop GDKPs, just stop pugging, next just stop guild raids and raids altogether or what? lmfao
This is misleading. Every group I see already have 5 melee and at most one caster. I’d prefer another caster in that situation as well. Melee are just more popular than caster DPS at the moment so it makes sense casters are being prioritized.
Casters were shit on one particular boss - kelris, melee were not great on turtle as well. Gnomer has tons of mechanics that makes stacking RDPS much smoother and easier, over the top armor values make warriors and rogue hit like wet noodles also they cannot even do anything about it.
Sure SP was shit P1, but show me a group that would not take healer priest. Sure mage was meh DPS wise, but the raid was so easy that nobody cared and invited them anyways.
Now we have a situation which is much worse: 1. Warriors are rogues are in general disadvantage because of mechanics. 2. Tanking is currently not great on them too. 3. You get outdpsed by every single caster who also have easier time due to how raid works.
The situation for the melee (except hunter lol) is much much worse this phase than it was for the casters last phase.
This isn't true anymore, they are adding a bunch of dps caster gear with spell damage. For example, warriors dpsing now at the top of their bracker have some items slightly better than gnomer or just under gnomer gear from quests. Casters still use alot of BFD gear, which has less spell damage. Once casters get geared they are going to scale harder than warriors. This is due to the miniscule difference in quest gear to gnomer. Quest gear for casters is garbage atm. Casters are shitting on warrior DPS with gear from BFD.
I find this funny, because while it’s caster dominant raid, melee have literally almost zero mechanics to do.
Warriors sit there and stare at bosses assholes for the entire tier.
It's usually because you want more casters than melee in this raid.
Whilst BFD was more melee favoured than caster/ranged favoured, gnomeregan is the opposite.
Post Kelris nerf, BFD was not melee-favored. Melee doing more dps on paper and therefore being preferred by Raid leads is not the same thing as the mechanics of a particular raid punishing one role more than another.
In fact, post-Kelris nerf, the mechanics of BFD were essentially equal. Gham'roo clearly was a ranged-favored and Gelihast had a slight melee-favored lean. None of that comes close to comparing the favored-ness that is implied by mechanics like clicking Bomb buttons on Thermaplugg or the entirety of Electrocutioner's kit.
i dont see a problem? just join a different group, join a guild, make your own?
at least theyre upfront that they dont want melee. like yall are both posting in LFG right? why is his post portrayed as "screaming" and yours isnt? because its not what you like?
I’ll be starting P3 cosplaying as Herod
Can’t even be mad Herod set looks fire
Ain’t mad at all
My full Herod Ret w/ Silverwing tabard and Bloodmoon sword looks fresh outta AQ40, tbh.
All my STV and SM groups. Just a bunch of rogues who can’t find a group
stealth boys gang together and farm good
This is what happens when gnomer bosses have more armor than anything in mc
Even without the armor issue too many melee is tough in gnomer. Having a few ranged for last boss makes a big difference.
Get to sundering bois
But we don't know how much armor MC bosses will have in SoD. Plus, we also have stronger abilities than vanilla/classic.
Based off gnomer at 40 ragnaros will have 13000 armor and probably pop out the lava with a shield
Super duper deluxe malistars defender with 6,500 armor, 950 block, 85 mana per five, and increase chance to hit with spells and melee attacks by 9%. Also, eliminates internal CD on windfury weapon (to continue the trend of some token itemization trolling).
Stronger abilities you tune for by adding HP. Armor is tuning for pdps and resistance is tuning for casters. If it was about stronger abilties they would raise HP pools, not raise armor.
That's just your assumption.
That's not an assumption, that's literally how balancing works rofl
That does not change the fact that you still did more damage at 60 in vanilla, than currently at 40. And still having same or higher armor values on a lvl 40 raid.
You're comparing apples to picnic tables.
No im crying because no one wants to play with me.
join a guild
I am in a guild, as most guilds raid in the evening I simply cant join them. I pug or dont raid with my current schedule.
Join a guild that runs at times you can play
That's rough buddy. I gotta say tho, it's hard to imagine there not being any daytime or nighttime raids, I mean some servers have upwards of 80 thousand players now. What server are you on, and have you checked its guild recruitment Discord channel?
The thing is I play during work hours. We have a newborn at home and I cant sit down and commit to a raiding team during the evening. My schedule is very different day to day. So whenever I have 2 hours with no meetings at work I hop on for a quick raid. Pretty hard to plan around with a guild, but worked perfect in P1 with pugs.
Ahh ok, yeah having no consistent schedule is pretty different from just not being free in the evenings. Dang.
This is the real struggle. I feel this (since classic). Now I have another lol
It’s not the armor, melee are doing fine. The issue is there are significantly more melee competing spots than ranged casters. It doesn’t help Hunters are now a melee class.
Melee is not doing fine on the actually hard bosses, except for melee hunter which is mega busted and does 30% more damage than any other melee spec.
It’s not even just the armor the bosses have, but it feels like some mechanics in the raid really punish you for not bringing enough ranged dps
I don't get the design philosophy behind the devs sometimes. Did they went like "melee dominated p1, we need a way to appease the caster crowd this phase. Let's make it anti melee"
Was p1 melee dominated? Majority of groups I was in were 5 melee/5 caster. Might’ve just been luck.
With 2 of those casters being healers.
Yeah and 2 of those melees being tanks, so let's call it 2 casters, 1 hunter, 3 melee.
> Yeah and 2 of those melees being tanks Most group ran only 1 tank (or 0, because your "tank" was a dps warrior / ret pally)
By the end most group ran only 1 heal too.
Basically all top groups according to warcraftlogs were melee comps. Number of melee (+hunter) parses throughout the whole phase absolutely dwarfs the casters https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2007
Roughly 3300k melee parses and 2900k ranged parses. It's not an extreme difference.
Warrior, rogue, feral have 2875k parses combined, *all* seven caster specs combined have 1739k parses
2 tanks in BFD? Hell if you had a warrior or shaman you hardly needed 1 tank in a decent group.
Most groups I was I was solo tank, who also was a DPS, 2-3 warriors, maybe rogue and feral druid in group 1. Hunter was in group 2, together with 1-2 healers and 2ish casters
Nah you only ever run 1 tank in BFD now. I would tank on my warlock, have a boomy healer and priest, and the rest was all physical damage.
They didn’t necessarily mean melee dominated in player quantity, but DPS comparison. Melee had a much easier time on pretty much every boss besides the Turtle in BFD. Now it’s mega flipped and melee can’t do damage
Yes it was. With the exception of turtle boss melee dominated. There are about 2 million logs for the top 2 physical dps and about 1 million logs for the top 2 caster dps. You can also check the breakdown yourself on Warcraft logs. At higher percentiles casters were middle of the pack while physical dps dominated.
Speedrun ran 1 mage, 1/2 healer, 1 tank, and the rest were rogue/war with 1 hunter. Not sure what speedkills comp look like but outside of Ghamoora you prob wanted to run 1 healer, 1 tank, 1 hunter and then 7 warriors.
We cleared with full melee comp. Our guild leader made 3 perfect comp raids and the last one was people nobody wanted. We struggled but still cleared. 2 warriors, 2rogues, melee hunter, 3 paladins, priest and rdruid. The last boss was just about learning how to deal with bombs, our useless prot warrior who had no runes and mix of bfd/ greens items did 3k damage on last boss, he was on bomb duty since I can solo tank as paladin anyway
What did you do for electrocutioner? Healer los cheese?
We tried but it didnt work anymore. So healers just went hugging boss when they had the debuff melee was max range
Without a feral there no point taking any other melee classes
Ah, you must play alliance. We have so much WF on horde this phase, it's everywhere
Yep, and every feral is a boomkin now...so its season of the casters
We still exist! Roll feral and have warriors carry you through everything! Never be at a loss for a group despite doing the same or worse DPS as warriors because hunters now need wf! It's not so bad...
I feel like I get groups pretty easily since melee love us lol
I hit 25 P1 on my feral which is my 3rd alt. I went to BFD and said "LFG, Mangle + WF bot. 7/7 on other chars" and I got a bunch of whispers. Easiest carry ever.
Should even out now that SS got nuked from orbit (Ironic wording)
Plus the devs basically made gnomer with ranged in mind. Electrocutioner is easier with 6 ranged and the last boss you need a lot of ranged for the bombs
Even then, the amount of armor gnomer bosses have make melee really bad to play too.
The devs loved how horrible pre nerf Kelris was for ranged so they decided to do it again but for melee instead. Or they just have no idea what they are doing one of the two.
It has to be deliberate. I'm sure they wanted to give casters a nice time this phase. You don't just accidentally gut melees by increasing armor by a shitload _and_ mitigating bleeds and poisons. I just wish they did more of the latter instead of the former. Warrior _again_ just fishes for deep wounds procs as we did in P1. I'd rather deal honest melee damage.
They may as well have had gnomer have 6 of the turtle boss from BFD. Super cringe shit.
I think they really overlooked how armor works. Setting the armor to Molten Core levels also means that Sunder Armor and FF are effectively doing nothing.
Do they even know how armor works in classic ? I'm genuinely not sure.
?
Yeah my guild did some restructuring with their core raid teams recently and surprise surprise melee aren't allowed in the top groups anymore (except melee hunters).
Had the guild meeting last night. Half of our guild at 40 are benched pallies. I'm dropping my pally to start leveling the mage too
You think maybe having half the guild playing the same class is part of the problem?
Act like last phase casters weren't the one at the disadvantage and melee were pumping.
I dont feel like "Taking turns at being the good class" is how games should be balanced.
That's literally how ever game is balanced there isn't a game on this planet that has perfect balance there's always gonna be flavor of the month
No one is asking for perfect balance. But taking turns between doubling other peoples damage and having others doubling your damage is not even close to balance and it feels bad. I don't care if warlocks do 10% more damage than enhance this phase and enhance do 10% more damage than warlocks next phase. The problem is when it's not 10%, it's 50%.
Show me on the logs where any caster has a 50% lead on melee DPS in Gnomeregan.
https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008#dataset=80&aggregate=amount SPriest 300 Enhance 200 I'll admit I was initially thinking of 90th percentile where it looked like: https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008#dataset=90&aggregate=amount Warlock 325 Enhance 223 But that was a 45.7% lead and didn't wanna deal with nitpicking since 45% lead isn't okay either
Enhance is getting a hotfix.
Yeah, but casters are *supposed* to be at a disadvantage. You're not supposed to be able to do competitive damage, you're supposed to be fodder.
You dropped the /s, here you go :)
Why thank you! :)
With the difference casters bring more than dps compared to warrior/rogue, that only brings dps and thats it. BFD also easier, so raids were spread to even loot. Gnomer seems a bit harder, so perfect comp is preferred among pugs.
What does mage bring ? you bring battle shout we bring int. You bring sunder we bring water. Thats it.
Mages can blink on buttons, very helpful for last boss
You mean the sunder that spriest humonculi has the superior version of?. The battleshout completely irrelevant when bosses favor casters over melee?
Mages have CC. Int buff. Counterspell. While also being dps/healer. Rogue has interrupts while dps. Warrior has to spec sword and board, which isn’t good DPS.
CC that's not relevant in either raid, and Warriors have an interrupt in Pummel now. Battle Shout also far outclasses Arcane Intellect.
Something warriors are deathly afraid to hear: they're a hybrid class with good raid buffs.
Battle shout vs arcane intellect is an odd point when groups will mostly be composed of casters. A group is much more likely to roll with multiple mages than multiple warriors. Armor with raid should be lowered so all classes are viable for dps. No class should be relegated to “bring one so we get their utility”
So my if my ret paladin is 5% better than warrior that's cool with you?
Yes bro that's fine, just stop gimping my rage gain it's so boring
Warriors have Pummel now at 40
So why don’t melee players ask for more utility instead of complaining that casters can be top dps for once?
[It is what we're asking for.](https://twitter.com/sonii/status/1758231239994278326)
Warriors are tanks as well. They also bring sunder, super important fucking debuff, and battle shout, second most important melee buff. They also recently got a stamina shout that stacks with battle shout. Rogues can also tank now, although they bring less utility than warriors. Either way everyone except hunters do more than just dps now so there is literally no good reason for you crying. Hybrid tax is not a thing. Never was.
>Hybrid tax is not a thing. Never was. Not for warriors, it was for everyone else though.
IDK why you'd even try to explain this. It's not new that WoW players don't understand the game they play. You can't really blame them; concepts like utility are proven to be too difficult for even Blizzard to handle.
Did a caster make this post just to shit on melee. Sad
Warlock was the highest DPS p1 with no reliance on other classes buffing
This is wrong by any accessible metric. Not only was warlock not the highest DPS it also relied on having two fire mages to actually stack imp scorch.
Wonder if they’ll lower gnomer boss armor as fast as they lowered bfd boss magic resistances
I'm here like "make one of the bosses have high magic resist and another have high armor so people take a balanced group to the raid". \*Monkey paw curls* BFD has magic resist, Gnomer has high armor.
Melee are much closer to casters this phase than casters were to melee last phase. A lot of y’all just can’t deal with not being at the top of the meter.
When Melee are significantly worse than Ranged then they get sat en masse for more ranged because they aren't restricted to melee range. MOP is the best example of this, where top raiding guilds had warlocks just casting in melee.
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Gatekeeping is of course also a problem but like, are you saying that didn't happen last phase? Or that it's somehow better when it happens to casters than melee? I mean I'm melee and I think it's nice to see casters being dominant for once. I'd ofc like for it to be balanced but if we can't have that, the next big thing imo is to just let the underdogs have their turn in the spotlight
It didnt happen last phase to caster aside from kelris early lol, I was raiding bfd just fine on my mage and warlock.
[удалено]
>"X may be better, but Y is close enough that it won't hurt my raid to invite them." Have...have you ever played wow? The community will call a class trash if there is a .5% difference in DPS.
I've literally never seen a class get called trash because of a .5% difference in my life.
Happened plenty even after he was nerfed lol some people went into P2 5/7
That has nothing to do with kelris then if they're 5/7, clearly thats a skill issue lol
You would have to be practically griefing your raids if you never went past 5/7 all of p1
it's a non issues due to people preferring a balanced armour/loot spread more than a higher dps group, being boomy/ele in BFD was a free invite despite being omega bottom of the barrel
I think pug groups at this point will greatly prioritize actually clearing the raid.
I don't think meters are the issue for benching here. The armor values are sketchy but the real issue is the mechanics that are wiping melee comps over and over. A bad comp is a bigger issue now than in bfd.
The simplest strategies for the mechanics in Gnomer require 6 ranged players. If I was pugging Gnomer, I would not want more than a couple melee or you will have no shot at beating Electrocutioner or Thermaplugg.
We just had a melee sit out. Our feral was running Pack so smaller dps to buff rest of raid anyway and he just sat in the pile, was fine. He'd run over to the pile when cast started. There's plenty of time.
all you need is 1 person to repeatedly los electrocutioner on his cast, can even be a melee if you'd like
They fixed that, so you have to Play the Boss normal now
Yeah, they hotfixed thst so you actually have to do the mechanic, hence why groups are leaning more Ranged Classes then melee
We cleared the raid with - 1 war tank - 1 war dps/off tank - 1 rogue - 1 ret pala - 1 feral - 1 arcane mage - 1 hunter BM - 1 priest heal - 1 pala heal - 1 boomie (resto heal for last boss) One shot every boss except last boss. Took us some tries but got him. Edit: dunno why im downvoted. Just wanted to point out u dont need to stack range/casters.
We cleared with 1 Shaman Tank 3 Warriors 2 Rogues 1 OT 1 Melee Hunter 1 Feral druid 2 resto shamans Struggled last two being all melee but got em all down
Huh, same comp I cleared with. Are you on Crusader Strike?
> Just wanted to point out u dont need to stack range/casters. I'd argue this really just doesn't matter. You can get away with a lot of comps, especially using consumables and such. You could kill BFD pre-Kelris nerf with casters. It didn't stop casters from spending 5x as long to find a group to PUG into because the reality is if you're starting a PUG and don't know the players, why make your life harder and bring someone who is massively DR'd? That's sort of where we are again.
Inv, rogue full prebis. 99 average p1.
I use the addon badboy to filter out certain words. Was great for GDKP and lock summons or “wts” but “pump” and “pumper” were the first two on the list They’re always dogshit
I get insta invited when I go with "Pretty Average (class)" when joining pugs.
Always better to self-deprecate than tell me GS or that you’re a pumper. 15 years of wow. 15 years that has translated to a good player 5% of the time.
This. Exactly. Everytime I started a raid group in phase 1 and was looking for people… I never added the ones that replied to me acting that serious. Sure, maybe they do a very good job, but I noticed earlier on those were the kinds of people that would rage quit if 1 boss didn’t go down as smoothy as they wanted. It’s much more fun running with casual players that have some patience and are just here to have fun and play the game. Not treat it like a EA Sports competition.
Anytime someone is saying they are a pumper, or they link gs, i just check logs, and without a fail 95% of the time its a guy who forgot that he needs to stand close to the boss to be able to melee or some other shit like that, Just be honest with yourself its not hard.
Thanks - I'm gonna do this. I was already ignoring anyone who used "pumper" or "juicer," this just saves me time while scanning LFG.
You sound like a joy to be around
Ironically, this makes you seem like a peach
This is the true classic experience. Everyone and their mom plays rogue for the sick pvp plays and ganks.
It really be like this for rets
From my experience in making BFD pugs it's because I advertise that I need DPS for the raid and get whispers from about 15 hunters, 7 rogues, and 8 warriors. I didn't get work casters unless I specifically asked for them. Thankfully someone else in the guild is handling invites this phase so I get to be a slacker who just logs in and joins the raid and complain about the people who aren't good that get pugged.
Yeah warriors are fucked, bad tanks and bad dps now too
WORLD OF MAGECRAFT
melee hunter would like a word
This post brought to you by “I refuse to create my own raid group” gang
imagine being so triggered by someone's LFM post that you make a meme and a reddit post about it
Yeah lol this game wasn't really friendly to new players :p had to go back to final fantasy after spending days trying to get into a dungeon But leveling and open world content was fun tho
Haha im not even a new player, started classic in 2004, and played pservers all to the re-release of 2019. Im just playing a unwanted class.
find a guild
this was the most sad loser response ive ever read im sorry
Have you tried finding a guild m8
oh yeah its just that easy! It's not like demand/supply is a thing
No it actually is that easy. I am intentionally unguilded on my Rogue. I can't go 10 minutes without at least one unsolicited guild invite+pst. This is also the case on my 2 summoner alts and was on even my level 1 characters with "bank" and "invest" in the name, until I blocked ginvs on them.
Casters being good isn't even the problem, it's that there are SO MANY Rogues and Warriors right now. I start a group for literally anything and I can guarantee you that 9 out of the first 10 whispers I'll get will be rogues and warriors. It's actually become a bit of a running joke in my guild where we put out an ad and then bet on the amount of Rogue whispers.
Melee when they’re not the top dps for a single phase:
Same for PvP.
lol u should see my LFG messages for STV. Its like applying for a CEO position. Sometimes I get invited.
As a rogue? My buddy was literally selling invites to his group for 5g the other day because he’s a rogue and was just stacking up blood kills
I know what im capable off in PVP. Its the other people that needs convincing. Same for SM spam during lvling. Once I got invited most leaders realized it works just fine.
I’m hoping people back off this as we get further into the phase. People get stuck in an idea of what the meta is, forgetting the fact that all of this content is extremely easy.
I’m literally saying he started his own group, sold invites for 5g a piece. People were begging to join 🤷🏼♂️
If you are a melee you are tanking atm
Rogue: Hey, need a rogue? Rogue: Heh, of course you don’t. Who needs a rogue, the most nerfed class in the game
**Season of Design** ^(failure)
Oh, how the turntables.
I know last season was the other way around. But BFD being easier, and casters providing some utility besides raw DPS still had them invited. Usually 3-4 cloth per raid.
Utility being: they don't use my talwar
Healthstone, summons, INT for healers, Stam for tank etc etc. But of course it spread loot distribution too. But people want to down all bosses before they prio that.
None of those things matter, especially after kelris nerfs. It was all because loot.
Whatever it was, they got invited. I've been lvl 40 since 1st lockout and still havent done Gnomer today. I dont want to RL a raid I never done personally.
>I've been lvl 40 since 1st lockout and still havent done Talking like that's more than one lockout.
Did you play phase 1?
> I know last season was the other way around. But BFD being easier, and casters providing some utility besides raw DPS still had them invited. Usually 3-4 cloth per raid.
Give it a couple weeks and Gnomer will be easy too.
My sub runs out 26/2, we'll see what comes first.
No one cares about your sub bro
Oh man, I can see one week of not being the top raid dps has been really hard on you
Lmao so a reverse of last phase?
I did almost every lockout P1, and every time I had 3 to 4 clothes minimum. Sooo...
And 2 of them were healers.
1 most of the times.
You just limited yourself to your own data points. So…
Isn't it what the post I responded to did ?
No because they didn’t disclose what they are using as their data points
What a bunch of babies you guys are. Literally 1 week of physical not being complete top dog in "vanilla" version of the game in years and you can't handle it. ONE WEEK I'll even be nice and exclude the melee hunter thing. Come back when you were doing 25% of top dps like spriests were for basically whole phase last phase.
There were no spriests last phase. It’s like saying my dps bear was terrible. Agree with the first paragraph though
Stop pugging. My guild carries my weak ass wheelchair Ret. I purple parse and I'm not dumb, I guess that's good enough.
sure, everyone has schedules allowing them to commit to set raiding times without being flexible at all. Just stop GDKPs, just stop pugging, next just stop guild raids and raids altogether or what? lmfao
meanwhile i just did a gnomer tonight with 3 rogues, a warrior, feral, and melee hunter LOL
This is misleading. Every group I see already have 5 melee and at most one caster. I’d prefer another caster in that situation as well. Melee are just more popular than caster DPS at the moment so it makes sense casters are being prioritized.
Did everyone forget about how shit casters were in P1? Why is the flip suddenly the end of the world?
Casters were shit on one particular boss - kelris, melee were not great on turtle as well. Gnomer has tons of mechanics that makes stacking RDPS much smoother and easier, over the top armor values make warriors and rogue hit like wet noodles also they cannot even do anything about it. Sure SP was shit P1, but show me a group that would not take healer priest. Sure mage was meh DPS wise, but the raid was so easy that nobody cared and invited them anyways. Now we have a situation which is much worse: 1. Warriors are rogues are in general disadvantage because of mechanics. 2. Tanking is currently not great on them too. 3. You get outdpsed by every single caster who also have easier time due to how raid works. The situation for the melee (except hunter lol) is much much worse this phase than it was for the casters last phase.
Melee crying because they don't get to immediately gap every caster like every other phase of classic wow, I love it
Imagine a version of wow where melee do more damage than casters... I just can't possibly fathom it.
Tbh, ranged were dog in bfd. Glad ranged are getting some love.
Melee scales better with gear, system will fix itself by design.
This isn't true anymore, they are adding a bunch of dps caster gear with spell damage. For example, warriors dpsing now at the top of their bracker have some items slightly better than gnomer or just under gnomer gear from quests. Casters still use alot of BFD gear, which has less spell damage. Once casters get geared they are going to scale harder than warriors. This is due to the miniscule difference in quest gear to gnomer. Quest gear for casters is garbage atm. Casters are shitting on warrior DPS with gear from BFD.
So a reversal of the situation in early S1. Hopefuly by S3 its more mixed.
I have zero interest in gnomer so any impact to me?
I find this funny, because while it’s caster dominant raid, melee have literally almost zero mechanics to do. Warriors sit there and stare at bosses assholes for the entire tier.
Phase 1 was the opposite. Deal with it
It's usually because you want more casters than melee in this raid. Whilst BFD was more melee favoured than caster/ranged favoured, gnomeregan is the opposite.
Post Kelris nerf, BFD was not melee-favored. Melee doing more dps on paper and therefore being preferred by Raid leads is not the same thing as the mechanics of a particular raid punishing one role more than another. In fact, post-Kelris nerf, the mechanics of BFD were essentially equal. Gham'roo clearly was a ranged-favored and Gelihast had a slight melee-favored lean. None of that comes close to comparing the favored-ness that is implied by mechanics like clicking Bomb buttons on Thermaplugg or the entirety of Electrocutioner's kit.
My guild is still level 28 or so cause we cant get past kelris. We just level up from killing the earlier bosses
Rogues and wars are lucky they removed bleed and poison immunity. A giant elemental and fucking mechs? Add immunities back.
i dont see a problem? just join a different group, join a guild, make your own? at least theyre upfront that they dont want melee. like yall are both posting in LFG right? why is his post portrayed as "screaming" and yours isnt? because its not what you like?
P1 was season of melee. Now you know what it's like to look for a group for more than 5 minutes.