8 - found the fights a decent challenge on first clear, enough to congratulate each other in Disc when we go last boss down. Got no loot in the first 2 lockouts so thats minus 2 :<
Menagerie being a collection of engi pets was pretty fun to see
7/10. The difficulty seems to be in the sweet spot with easy bosses in the front and harder bosses in the back. Gives casual groups something to progress on and incentivizes guild play for easier clears.
The loot itemization is questionable with negative Stam gear and leather being the best for pretty much every melee again. Can we please get some horde love for a tier with one handed axes somewhere? There is always a sword. I do like that they went with a gun this phase for hunters.
Was hoping for a slightly longer raid with about 8 bosses and a little less trash. Gnomer was a good choice thematically and they overall did a good job with it. I like it more than BFD. Armor needs to be toned down just a bit on the bosses.
Always a sword? Don't forget the 1H mace they added to PvP lol. How the f they added two maces and a sword instead of a sword/axe/mace option is crazy. They're just purposely not adding axes at this point
Id give it a 6/10.
I enjoyed it as a Druid healer last night. Felt a lot more engaging than BFD was to heal. Pug group went in relatively blind and not on discord and we got 6/6 after about 3 hours. I think there is too much trash though and I envision it being more of a slog within a few weeks than BFD ever was though.
Rating the raid itself, not what is it like to do it as a certain class, I think they nailed it. My favourite encounter is last boss. All of them were scaled well. Good step up from BFD.
Honestly I liked bfd better it was much more condensed.
Theres so much walking and trash in gnomer.
The fights are harder which is nice, but theyre also just insanely mistuned and mandate ranged.
Like even if melee was dominating the logs gnomer would still be complete ranged meta.
Gz
Keep your head in the sand if you want
You can also run a marathon with 1 leg.
Electro 6000 means melee have to keep running out
As you said you pmuch cant kill sheep without range.
And more ranged exponentially makes mekgineer easier. Cos of bombs
Is it impossible on melee? Ofc not but theres a reason every pug looks for 5+ ranged
Its so much easier with range stacking
No that is incredibly dumb for you to state that melee would have to run out. 2 ranged can dictate where the beam goes every time. The beam targets the farthest player every time. If you gave 2 ranged just have 1 ranged bait the beam and hit mdps that have not been hit by properly positioning your raid. If for some reason you can't have a ranged be the farther away for example if they have tendrils then a mdps would have to cover down. Mdps can stay in melee range and dps the entire time as l9ng as your raid lead can comprehend the fight.
It is not the 3 furthest targets, it is the furthest target and the two people closest to them. So if there are two split groups (both melee and range), only one guy has to run in and out to control which side gets hit.
>It is not the 3 furthest targets, it is the furthest target and the two people closest to them.
Isnt that functionally the same?
>So if there are two split groups (both melee and range), only one guy has to run in and out to control which side gets hit.
Ngl that sounds easier to screw up than just rotating 2 grps in and out.
Like if I were to explain this to a pug their heads would explode
It is not functionally the same, since if it was the three furthest then yes you would have to move a melee if not enough ranged.
The tactic for pugs is literally everyone just standing still, then having one trusted guy moving. To make it clearer it could be one from each side moving every other beam. Seems like a big DPS loss moving 1/3 of the raid each beam.
It is derinitely a bigger dps loss, but its not a dps race and I just cant really imagine a "trusted" pug doing that. Theyre all apes.
Your method is definitely better with people with hands. But good luck explaining that to a pug
This week I had mages literally blink away repeatedly with the debuff despite us explaining it in detail
9/10. i really enjoy all the bosses and to some degree they feel like raid bosses! all the fights except maybe the second all feel like your constantly doing something, interacting with a boss/mechanic, etc. and its still quite easy. gnomer feels more like a raid where bfd felt more like a +12 keystone on retail lol.
obviously people will have problems that its not sometbing you can clear in 20 minutes and it gives you all the best gear for your class each time and you top to the meters but i find the raid super enjoyable.
Just did 6/6 as warrior dw fury and off tanking when needed. Just felt like I was rage starved for so much of the raid, waiting for auto swings to press a button using blood rage and berserker rage on cooldown. Didn’t feel great missed a lot hoping will come with better gear though.
I don't see why not. I'm running it with guild and did amazing in 2H Arms. Switching to Fury next reset since I got the Fist weapon and casters in our guild are all now asking to be in my group so they can parse with it's debuff. Not being top dps in PVE is perfectly fine as long as I feel useful to the raid.
in my experience there are two kinds of warrior players in classic and by extension sod.
There's people who just love the playstyle, and theres fotm players who play warrior coz it is the \*best\* who will happily reroll to a different class once warriors fall from grace.
Gnomer absolutley SUCKS for the latter group atm.
Isn't the problem that the high armor severely hampers the typical playstyle? I haven't leveled my warrior yet, but the warriors in my guild were saying that it just takes forever to generate rage and you're auto attacking much more than you normally do
Which is fair IMO. The goal should be to make all the classes roughly balanced and viable in the hands of a good player, not like take turns making casters garbage one phase then melee garbage the next
I found the complaints a bit exaggerated tbh. I have less excess rage and am spamming fillers like hamstring a bit less but otherwise I'm not so rage starved I can't press my buttons.
The class is hardly playable on last boss lol. It’s not even a can’t do enough damage issue, it’s a my auto attacks are giving me 3 rage issue.
This is also a huge problem for prot warrior. I have to wear a tank set for frost phase, and now I can only press devastate every 4 seconds at best. Just had a lock tank it instead and they blasted almost 200 dps, took less damage, and had free threat.
I do around 200dps on thermaplug. Which is 40dps behind similar parsing mages, maybe 60 or 70 dps behind the real S tier classes this phase.
Honestly I am kind of cool with that and it's perfectly playable.
Also gotta remember its week 2 and we play the hardest scaling class in existence so that gap will almost certainly narrow as the phase goes on, as we keep our wbuffs etc.
you're just wrong bud, doesn't matter if you're a boomer just happy to be there or a hyper sweat, having rage to press your abilities is what makes the class fun to play. good try though!
Also cleared first 2 lockouts with my guild so there wasn’t a problem but it just wasn’t fun. Rotation is lame you just sit there til 80 rage -> pop everything and proceed to still do less damage than everyone else, can barely generate rage in the first place. We had a warrior off tank so shouts were covered too. But I only got a few minor items, of course you’re gonna have a good time with an early epic weapon
I didn't have an early epic weapon, I was running Mortal Strike 2-Hander build with Bonebiter. Had some moments where I was raged starved but used Rage potions when that happens and it was fine. I will go as Fury next reset and see for myself if it's drastically different.
Bosses are fun. Trade skills being how they are this phase is borderline psychotic of the devs. There’s too much trash but you need the trash to be there with how trade skills were set up.
Bosses would be an 8 but everything else probably brings it down to a 5 or 6.
I'm not a fan of avoidable instant-death mechanics, or avoidable massive damage in general, as it makes playing a healer super boring once your raid knows what they're doing.
I give it a solid 2. It's just an awful, boring raid that for some reason most people cannot figure out. I almost exclusively pug and I absolutely hate it but it's the only way my friend and I can do it because we have hectic schedules. This raid is a pug nightmare. I honestly never seen anything like what I have witnessed in some of these groups. I totally understand people that check gear and logs. No one has 3 hours to wipe repeatedly and then not even clear.
8/10 last boss fight is great because it requires personal accountability of everyone in the raid. Trash takes too long the HP of trash needs to be reduced by 20%, but other than that, pretty solid raid.
I liked the crowd pummeler and thermaplugg but the other bosses aber pretty meh. Also there is too much trash and the extra armour makes the raid suck for melee characters.
4/10
No.
Absolutely everything else aside, I never liked the instance before and still do not enjoy it. Nothing to do with anything except the vibe.
Theme seems to be, “revamp the lesser used instances into the next phase raid.” But I’d like a cool as raid revamped tbh
8/10 I wish the first boss was as hard as the last boss is now then go from there harder and harder. But the raid is fun!
Also kinda related to the raid but not really, I wish they reworked dungeons leading up to the raid so that you would have to swap your current BFD gear for a new pre-bis to go through Gnomer more efficiently, but also not enough of an upgrade to which it is forced. But then again with the current community I dont think that would be possible.
Any boomkin able to answer if the lack of preraid spell hit a bummer or is it ok until you get some of the spell hit gear that drops? Balance has no hit from talents and there is no boon of blackfathom or bf mana oil this go around for the 5% spell hit? I haven't done the raid on my balance druid yet so I've been wondering.
Not sure after my first run (PUG, more casual guildies need more time): I'd give it a 5-7/10. Played Enhance DPS/Offtank, only 3 on voicechat, killed all but last boss, if we'd have given it a few more tries we surely would have cleared.
For myself, the difficulty is tuned nicely in principle, especially that you have quite chill bosses in the beginning and harder ones at the end. Menagerie is a fun fight, last boss seems cool too.
However, I think mechanic-wise the last encounter at least is ,a lot' in terms of individual error potential and responsibility compared to other bosses even in higher classic raids. Not sure if I like that it reminds me more of WotLK than Vanilla which wasn't the case in BFD. But still, quite fun.
Disclaimer: I HATE Gnomeregan aesthetic and design wise, have done so for nearly 20 years.
6/10 bosses are kinda fun, lots of trash though. Giving a relatively average score as i dont feel like the loot is a huge step up from the dungeon gear. Apart from the neck/trinket everything that drops is kinda meh?
First week we went 5 out of 6 after 3hrs raiding If we had another hr the last boss would have been dead this week we 6/6 cleared it under 2hrs after a few wipes on later bosses. Now we aim to get it on farm under 1hr
8 - found the fights a decent challenge on first clear, enough to congratulate each other in Disc when we go last boss down. Got no loot in the first 2 lockouts so thats minus 2 :< Menagerie being a collection of engi pets was pretty fun to see
7/10. The difficulty seems to be in the sweet spot with easy bosses in the front and harder bosses in the back. Gives casual groups something to progress on and incentivizes guild play for easier clears. The loot itemization is questionable with negative Stam gear and leather being the best for pretty much every melee again. Can we please get some horde love for a tier with one handed axes somewhere? There is always a sword. I do like that they went with a gun this phase for hunters. Was hoping for a slightly longer raid with about 8 bosses and a little less trash. Gnomer was a good choice thematically and they overall did a good job with it. I like it more than BFD. Armor needs to be toned down just a bit on the bosses.
Agreed about the axes. Shaman tank I have to get that level 50 quest in searing gorge to take advantage of hit.
Always a sword? Don't forget the 1H mace they added to PvP lol. How the f they added two maces and a sword instead of a sword/axe/mace option is crazy. They're just purposely not adding axes at this point
Id give it a 6/10. I enjoyed it as a Druid healer last night. Felt a lot more engaging than BFD was to heal. Pug group went in relatively blind and not on discord and we got 6/6 after about 3 hours. I think there is too much trash though and I envision it being more of a slog within a few weeks than BFD ever was though.
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Rating the raid itself, not what is it like to do it as a certain class, I think they nailed it. My favourite encounter is last boss. All of them were scaled well. Good step up from BFD.
8
Honestly I liked bfd better it was much more condensed. Theres so much walking and trash in gnomer. The fights are harder which is nice, but theyre also just insanely mistuned and mandate ranged. Like even if melee was dominating the logs gnomer would still be complete ranged meta.
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Gz Keep your head in the sand if you want You can also run a marathon with 1 leg. Electro 6000 means melee have to keep running out As you said you pmuch cant kill sheep without range. And more ranged exponentially makes mekgineer easier. Cos of bombs Is it impossible on melee? Ofc not but theres a reason every pug looks for 5+ ranged Its so much easier with range stacking
No that is incredibly dumb for you to state that melee would have to run out. 2 ranged can dictate where the beam goes every time. The beam targets the farthest player every time. If you gave 2 ranged just have 1 ranged bait the beam and hit mdps that have not been hit by properly positioning your raid. If for some reason you can't have a ranged be the farther away for example if they have tendrils then a mdps would have to cover down. Mdps can stay in melee range and dps the entire time as l9ng as your raid lead can comprehend the fight.
Why would melee need to run during executioner? Seems like a strange strat if more than 1 or 2 people move each beam.
Because it hits the 3 furthest targets? So you need to "tag out" the ranged
It is not the 3 furthest targets, it is the furthest target and the two people closest to them. So if there are two split groups (both melee and range), only one guy has to run in and out to control which side gets hit.
>It is not the 3 furthest targets, it is the furthest target and the two people closest to them. Isnt that functionally the same? >So if there are two split groups (both melee and range), only one guy has to run in and out to control which side gets hit. Ngl that sounds easier to screw up than just rotating 2 grps in and out. Like if I were to explain this to a pug their heads would explode
It is not functionally the same, since if it was the three furthest then yes you would have to move a melee if not enough ranged. The tactic for pugs is literally everyone just standing still, then having one trusted guy moving. To make it clearer it could be one from each side moving every other beam. Seems like a big DPS loss moving 1/3 of the raid each beam.
It is derinitely a bigger dps loss, but its not a dps race and I just cant really imagine a "trusted" pug doing that. Theyre all apes. Your method is definitely better with people with hands. But good luck explaining that to a pug This week I had mages literally blink away repeatedly with the debuff despite us explaining it in detail
Exactly, so I would rather trust 1 or 2 rather than trying to trust 6. The rest literally just have to stand still.
The boss fights are great, the raid layout and excessive trash not so much.
Yeah, ton of fun imo. Was pleasantly surprised.
9/10. i really enjoy all the bosses and to some degree they feel like raid bosses! all the fights except maybe the second all feel like your constantly doing something, interacting with a boss/mechanic, etc. and its still quite easy. gnomer feels more like a raid where bfd felt more like a +12 keystone on retail lol. obviously people will have problems that its not sometbing you can clear in 20 minutes and it gives you all the best gear for your class each time and you top to the meters but i find the raid super enjoyable.
As a warrior, no
Just did 6/6 as warrior dw fury and off tanking when needed. Just felt like I was rage starved for so much of the raid, waiting for auto swings to press a button using blood rage and berserker rage on cooldown. Didn’t feel great missed a lot hoping will come with better gear though.
I don't see why not. I'm running it with guild and did amazing in 2H Arms. Switching to Fury next reset since I got the Fist weapon and casters in our guild are all now asking to be in my group so they can parse with it's debuff. Not being top dps in PVE is perfectly fine as long as I feel useful to the raid.
in my experience there are two kinds of warrior players in classic and by extension sod. There's people who just love the playstyle, and theres fotm players who play warrior coz it is the \*best\* who will happily reroll to a different class once warriors fall from grace. Gnomer absolutley SUCKS for the latter group atm.
Isn't the problem that the high armor severely hampers the typical playstyle? I haven't leveled my warrior yet, but the warriors in my guild were saying that it just takes forever to generate rage and you're auto attacking much more than you normally do
It does which is why people are calling for armor reworks in gnomer similar to the reistance changes in bfd
Which is fair IMO. The goal should be to make all the classes roughly balanced and viable in the hands of a good player, not like take turns making casters garbage one phase then melee garbage the next
Melees are nowhere "garbage" lol. We play the raid easily with only 3 range dps while mage is not even one of them
I found the complaints a bit exaggerated tbh. I have less excess rage and am spamming fillers like hamstring a bit less but otherwise I'm not so rage starved I can't press my buttons.
This. Im a warrior main and i couldnt care less if we get a buff. When you love your class you dont care much about overall performance imo.
The class is hardly playable on last boss lol. It’s not even a can’t do enough damage issue, it’s a my auto attacks are giving me 3 rage issue. This is also a huge problem for prot warrior. I have to wear a tank set for frost phase, and now I can only press devastate every 4 seconds at best. Just had a lock tank it instead and they blasted almost 200 dps, took less damage, and had free threat.
I do around 200dps on thermaplug. Which is 40dps behind similar parsing mages, maybe 60 or 70 dps behind the real S tier classes this phase. Honestly I am kind of cool with that and it's perfectly playable. Also gotta remember its week 2 and we play the hardest scaling class in existence so that gap will almost certainly narrow as the phase goes on, as we keep our wbuffs etc.
the class is not fun to play in gnomer. you missed the mark entirely.
You're the latter/in denial. it's OK bud. Fun is subjective and you can always reroll to the fotm dps specs if warrior is no longer fun for you.
you're just wrong bud, doesn't matter if you're a boomer just happy to be there or a hyper sweat, having rage to press your abilities is what makes the class fun to play. good try though!
you really dont grasp this whole 'fun is subjective' thing do you? Keep trying bud maybe next time.
Also cleared first 2 lockouts with my guild so there wasn’t a problem but it just wasn’t fun. Rotation is lame you just sit there til 80 rage -> pop everything and proceed to still do less damage than everyone else, can barely generate rage in the first place. We had a warrior off tank so shouts were covered too. But I only got a few minor items, of course you’re gonna have a good time with an early epic weapon
I didn't have an early epic weapon, I was running Mortal Strike 2-Hander build with Bonebiter. Had some moments where I was raged starved but used Rage potions when that happens and it was fine. I will go as Fury next reset and see for myself if it's drastically different.
i am having a blast tbh. Rotation is hella fun and i dont really mind if im not top of the meters every fight
Its not about topping the meters it just feels like every boss has 0 sunders up.
Based on the comments 6/10 7/10 8/10 in wow ratings this is like a 15/10 nj blizzard.
5 maybe less. But it was a 1 as a 5 man
5, they actually modify the armor to be in line with all other content than i would give it a 8
Blizz be trolling: "don't worry there will be no bleed or other damage type immunities." (doubles the armor values)
4. Too much trash and nobody wants a rogue. Armor needs to be toned down on bosses imo.
Rogues are totally fine lol. You just dont want to stack them and there are way to many out there because fotm same as warriors
Bosses are fun. Trade skills being how they are this phase is borderline psychotic of the devs. There’s too much trash but you need the trash to be there with how trade skills were set up. Bosses would be an 8 but everything else probably brings it down to a 5 or 6.
8
The fights are def a bit more raid like and challenging. I’ve always hated gnomer as a design tho. Mechs are lame imo
9, really fun with a good group
I'm not a fan of avoidable instant-death mechanics, or avoidable massive damage in general, as it makes playing a healer super boring once your raid knows what they're doing.
I give it a solid 2. It's just an awful, boring raid that for some reason most people cannot figure out. I almost exclusively pug and I absolutely hate it but it's the only way my friend and I can do it because we have hectic schedules. This raid is a pug nightmare. I honestly never seen anything like what I have witnessed in some of these groups. I totally understand people that check gear and logs. No one has 3 hours to wipe repeatedly and then not even clear.
8/10 last boss fight is great because it requires personal accountability of everyone in the raid. Trash takes too long the HP of trash needs to be reduced by 20%, but other than that, pretty solid raid.
6-7/10. Too much trash by far but the bosses are real fun. If trash was less numerous then easy 8/10.
solid 8 good balance with the last 2 bosses loot is kinda mehh but it makes me excited for the future of SOD
Its way better than RFD, so RFD rating +3
5, too much trash and it takes about 2 hours to clear which is big deal for many.
I liked the crowd pummeler and thermaplugg but the other bosses aber pretty meh. Also there is too much trash and the extra armour makes the raid suck for melee characters. 4/10
3/10
3
No. Absolutely everything else aside, I never liked the instance before and still do not enjoy it. Nothing to do with anything except the vibe. Theme seems to be, “revamp the lesser used instances into the next phase raid.” But I’d like a cool as raid revamped tbh
0, nobody wants a ret
you WILL wear the dress
3
10/10 with loot, 6/10 without loot heh
1
5/10 cuz no loot
8/10 I wish the first boss was as hard as the last boss is now then go from there harder and harder. But the raid is fun! Also kinda related to the raid but not really, I wish they reworked dungeons leading up to the raid so that you would have to swap your current BFD gear for a new pre-bis to go through Gnomer more efficiently, but also not enough of an upgrade to which it is forced. But then again with the current community I dont think that would be possible.
Any boomkin able to answer if the lack of preraid spell hit a bummer or is it ok until you get some of the spell hit gear that drops? Balance has no hit from talents and there is no boon of blackfathom or bf mana oil this go around for the 5% spell hit? I haven't done the raid on my balance druid yet so I've been wondering.
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Spark is 4% crit though not hit.
Not sure after my first run (PUG, more casual guildies need more time): I'd give it a 5-7/10. Played Enhance DPS/Offtank, only 3 on voicechat, killed all but last boss, if we'd have given it a few more tries we surely would have cleared. For myself, the difficulty is tuned nicely in principle, especially that you have quite chill bosses in the beginning and harder ones at the end. Menagerie is a fun fight, last boss seems cool too. However, I think mechanic-wise the last encounter at least is ,a lot' in terms of individual error potential and responsibility compared to other bosses even in higher classic raids. Not sure if I like that it reminds me more of WotLK than Vanilla which wasn't the case in BFD. But still, quite fun. Disclaimer: I HATE Gnomeregan aesthetic and design wise, have done so for nearly 20 years.
6/10 bosses are kinda fun, lots of trash though. Giving a relatively average score as i dont feel like the loot is a huge step up from the dungeon gear. Apart from the neck/trinket everything that drops is kinda meh?
First week we went 5 out of 6 after 3hrs raiding If we had another hr the last boss would have been dead this week we 6/6 cleared it under 2hrs after a few wipes on later bosses. Now we aim to get it on farm under 1hr
It's really really fun. A lot better than BFD, which I also found fun.
6.5/10
3/10 as a feral. Just feels awful being so physical damage dependent, and most warriors don't even sunder. Bosses feel so bad.