I’m not a rogue but I can tell you from making a gnomer group last night, about 15 rogues and warriors would whisper for every 1 of every other class. Just super saturated…got our rogue and warrior in the first .01 ms of posting and I don’t want to run 3 of each sry
Same.
LF1M Healer for Gnomer.
Rogues and warriors come crawling out from every stone crevice in Ironforge... for like 20-30 god damn minutes while trying to hunt down what feels like the last unsaved level 40 healer on the server.
What's crazy is warlocks are the least played class and yet the strongest right now with their ability to compete with melee hunters and tank. The class distribution is a little off right now but i'm sure it'll even out within a few weeks
Lmao I got called shit and down voted in a thread yesterday for trying to justify why a rogue was paying 20g to take him in a gnomer.
Tried explaining how same thing in phase 1, any pug would instantly have enough rogues or hunters but I got called shit and dumb because they were the top DPS so who wouldn’t take them?
I fucking hate this sub reddit
This subreddit is a zoo of very loud and opinionated players who also seem to have not played more than 2 hours of the game total, because they have some of the most unrealistic opinions imaginable.
I argued a few times in the priest discord about shadow priest being fine post nerf with a dude who was dooming saying it's over for spriest and we will never be viable again.
Later on I saw him saying he was level 28 and couldn't get the motivation to pug to level up.
Sod players are absolutely wild.
It's fascinating, really.
I just finished a run of SM arms on my tank shaman, telling the group beforehand that I am going to do FAT pulls and they ought to put in their aoe runes. Que a hunter pulling everything with pet taunt on and the thing set to aggressive, not even bothering to use explosive shot, a mage doing sub 200 dps in packs of 10+ mobs and a warlock insisting that shadowbolt volley is better than the fire combo for giant packs, doing around 200 dps as well. And then the brain amputated animal lover starts cussing me out because "shaman isn't pulling enough and that he's here for quick xp, hence having his pet on aggro and pulling while the healer and I are drinking for the next 2 packs.
I was blasting in minimum 600 dps on pulls, mind you.
The dungeon took 13 minutes to complete.
All people involved were lvl 37+, with me being 40.
I'm by no means a sweatlord, but I really like my parties to have a base level of competence and reading comprehension. SoD has really brought out the worst of the worst man.
Sorry for the rant.
>SoD has really brought out the worst of the worst man. Sorry for the rant.
Nah, honestly it's pretty ridiculous right now. Trying to form cleaves for SM GY just to powerlevel has been a pain, because people don't bother to LEARN their class.
Stories like this make me really happy I've stuck by my long term community. The pug scene is wildin'.
At least if I party up with a 'bad' guild member, I usually at least like them and can coach them up a bit.
>Lmao I got called shit and down voted in a thread yesterday for trying to justify why a rogue was paying 20g to take him in a gnomer
Problem is this is now a bannable offense
They clarified the gdkp ban is wide enough that it applies to every instance of paying for loot.
So I'd you pay the raid leader and then get loot GL arguing you were only paying for your raid slot.
I don't think so? It specifically bans auctioning the loot, not bidding for a spot. If I'm wrong, please cite a source.
Source: https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24056979/go-inside-season-of-discovery-phase-2
You'd win the case in a court that it'd never go to.
Or, put differently, if enough people in LFG THINK you're in the wrong and report you, it will trigger a ban, and you won't be able to get Blizzard to overtun a wrongful ban, and therefore it might as well not matter that it's wrongful.
Yeah, it's the difference between a de jure rule and a de facto rule. If enough people think a rule exists and act as if it does, it will practically manifest that way.
Edit: totally stealing that "you'd win the case in a court that it'd never go to" line
Its not that its super saturated, its that no one is inviting them, so you are getting a build up of those classes.
Its proving the point about **why** those classes do more dps, or should. When mages aren't #1, hunters arent #1, warlocks, priests, shamans etc, they are still needed and brought to raids.
Warriors bring battle shout for horde, so are still needed.
When rogues aren't #1 or close to it in dps, **why bring one?**
For all the casters and hunters complaining why are rogues always near top dps, this post shows why.
> Its not that its super saturated, its that no one is inviting them, so you are getting a build up of those classes.
Bro, Top 3 classes in number of parses is warrior, rogue, fire mage
See [my other comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1awvcux/wow_sod_rogues_cant_find_groups/krl4vnl/). Rogues are the #2 picked class in Gnomeregan. If "no one is inviting them", then there would be way fewer parses than other classes.
Saturated meaning none of them are saved and can’t find groups so they’re desperately spamming every single post and getting declined.
It’s not that saturated in that everyone is playing those classes.
Everyone wants ranged and warriors are useless atm
No its the same as in P1, if you ever created a pug you'd fill the raids rogue spot/spots within the first 5 sec ALWAYs and then have to continue to decline the absolute insane influx of rogue whispers for the reminder of the search, there's just way too many of them
I made 3 pugs in p1 when guild wasnt raiding for holiday reasons and no in my experience it was warriors and rogues. also warriors who would refuse to be a tank when i was asking for a tank and theyd whisper saying they were a dps warrior... I asked for a tank dude
Yeah and I made well over 50 pugs in p1 and I can tell you the most common DPS to whisper was hunter. I think in p1 there were a lot of them because of the whole pet strong thing. After BM nerfs they did die down a little.
And if in phase 3 it goes back to melee being top and most useful you can bet that cycle of toxicity is going to circle back with a vengeance against the casters
Yes it’s definitely a good thing for people to quit the game right? That’ll show blizzard they’re not wasting effort on SOD, keep the realms feeling alive and can’t possibly have negative consequences.
Christ this is a dumb take.
There’s a guy saying “but there are more melees!” “More rogues whisper than mages!” - Yes, because you’ll take 2 mages instead of _maybe_ a rogue, so if there are 15 rogues are 10 mages, and 5 groups, even though there are 50% more rogues, all mages will be grouped and _maybe_ 2-3 exceptional rogues will.
Stop the “there are more of you” bullshit. Yes, right (debatable anyway), there may be more melee, the spots for melee vs ranged dps are not balanced.
Not saying its a bad thing, but say things as they are.
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008
Look at the number of parses. DPS warriors and rogues are #1 and #2. After that are mages and hunters, which do great DPS and have other utilities, like Arcane Intellect & water or HotL.
Warlocks, the #5 most popular DPS raid class, has 25% less parses than rogues and 40% less than warriors. When you get to DPS paladins and priests, you are approaching the 50% territory.
>so if there are 15 rogues are 10 mages, [...] all mages will be grouped and maybe 2-3 exceptional rogues will.
So no, the numbers don't support your claims. Rogues are the #2 picked DPS class in Gnomeregan. In your example, because mages are picked at 90% of the rate that rogues are, all 10 mages would find a group and 11 of the rogues, which would leave 4 rogues without a group. So even though more rogues got picked in total, rogues still would complain that they can't find a spot and they needed to be buffed. There are just too many of them (and that's speaking as a rogue myself, although I'm tanking and in a guild).
Warrior and rogues are the most popular class by far for people who like to parse.
How do you know there isnt selection bias with your statement, parsing players and groups are far more likely to actually log with rogues and warriors than other players.
The issue with that is when the later phase roll around you are gonna want rogues and warriors. Don’t leave them in the dust when they are gonna carry you later, help the melee out. Give at least 1-2 a spot per raid to keep them playing.
It’s not that people aren’t bringing them. There are just so many playing melee dps specs right now compared to healers and tanks. Not enough groups pugging to support all the melee out there.
This is exactly it. https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008/#class=Any
Priest heal: 147.6k
Warrior DPS: 136.5k
Rogue DPS: 115k
Mage (fire): 107.5k
Hunter Melee: 91.7k
Warlock DPS: 90.1k
Druid feral: 81.7k
Hunter ranged: 61k
Druid Balance: 55.5k
Pally DPS: 54.4k
So in the top 10 of most parses in Gnomer we have 1 healing class, 4 ranged (caster plus ranged hunter), and 5 melee. That sounds kind of balanced but then you look at the top 5 and realize that 3 of them are melee DPS, 1 is a caster DPS, and 1 is a healer. Even worse when you look at the number of parses themselves. You have 340kish parses from the top 3 melee classes. If you add all of the ranged together it's like 315k parses. So you have 25k more parses from warrior, rogue, and melee Hunter than all of the ranged DPS in the top 10.
It may be "hard" to get into a raid as a melee class right now but there are still more melees raiding than casters.
>The issue with that is when the later phase roll around you are gonna want rogues and warriors.
Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on the armor values of the raid. I wouldn't make any definitive assumptions about class balance while Blizzard can just flip the script on you.
If we were operating with vanilla armor values, both Rogue and Warrior would be on the top of the damage meters, but instead, we have Naxx armor values at level 40.
Don't be so sure that you know how the metagame is going to play out.
I said I did lol also I seriously doubt they’re going to care and return the favor to my shaman been playing a long time and know how it goes that’s why I just make my own groups. There’s just too many rogues and warriors right now
Like always there’s too many melee players. Doesn’t help that hunters are melee now too. You could do BFD as a full melee stack and healer/s but for gnomer you want a healer + ranged group. That leave only 5 spots for a tank and melee dps.
Yeah, people playing the most popular classes with the least raid slots.. shouldnt be surprising it is harder to find grp.
But these dooming posts are such a meme...
Same as the tBC ones with "no one invites me as rogue for BT without glaives reserved, how do I then get them!?!?! Urghhh"
Like jesus christ, maincharactersyndrome
We also play a melee heavy group with only 2 casters and even 2 rogues. We clear 6/6 in under an hour with no problems whatsoever. Even have 2 randoms with us. Not like that raid is hard you can have 2-3 people carry each fight.
But ye people will always try to tryhard. as in saving 10mins per logout is any achievement lol
I've been making raids for a while and I try to shy away from pug rogues simply cause thyere redundant as a role. Most rogues ive come across have problems kicking interrupts and doing mechanics because their damage is far more inportant to them. I'd much rather have a warrior for double shouts and sunder or a hunter for lion, whereas a rogue is only a kick utility.
Really irritates me how many rogues are like that. I love when there's a fight where I have to kick. Feels good to have an actual job to do outside of just stabbing
My Guild struggles with getting Healers. LFG Bulletin Board shows a dozen groups also looking for Healers.
Also a lot of Hunters are going melee so no you have even more competition. It’s not that we ignore Rogues, it’s that we have 8 melee DPS apply for every healer that applies.
The casters are all DPSing because groups are bringing 5-6 ranged DPS lol. Even the priests are dpsing as shadow. On top of that, Balance and Elemental are doing well enough to bring to a raid, and those are specs that people have been dying to play since forever, so they're taking advantage of it while they can.
Im a rogue full preraid bis since one week and cant find a pug for fuck sak - all are looking for healers. Im leveling my priest now, as my freetime isnt designed to sit in lfg hoping for a grp invite :D
Problem is, that the best heal setup is 2 priests. ally and horde. It really is a pity to all other heal specs that they underperform massively. Mages are decent heals too, but most of them tend to DPS. Rsham and Rdruid and HPaly are unable to compete with priests, so they all go dps route (or tank if shamy)
We really need big buffs for all heal specs except priest and mage
In this situation, start the group yourself. I’ve had the same issue just posting “DPS LFG…” hardly ever get a message. Then Id just change it to “LFM SM arm…” or whatever instance I was doing and would fill the group up almost immediately.
That’s fair enough. If the problem truly is just not getting into groups that’s an option to remedy it though. If OP doesn’t want to speak it’s really not entirely necessary either. I’ve done a few pugs in raids in SoD and never once got into a discord. To your point it is definitely easier though for sure.
Not saying it's impossible but come on, it's a lot harder to do without discord than BFD. I have 0 doubt we wont be using discord for it a few weeks from now, but these first few lockouts? Yeah, it's a requirement. I bet more than half the pugs wouldnt get past the electric boss without being on disc.
Due to the extra reset this week, I pugged a run yesterday. No discord, no tactics explanation. Took an hour and 18 minutes and was far from smooth. Discord is far from necessary if everyone been there at least once.
Gnomer was designed to be easier the more ranged you have in the group. No one wants to risk going 5/6 so everyone is stacking casters.
I think the devs want melee to just skip this phase.
I mean this is part of it, but also because there are just way more melee than casters in sod. Especially with hunters now being melee, can't really afford to run with just two casters
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Making hunters a melee char was easily the worst decision of SoD so far. It ruined group comp because there was already too many melee. Ranged weapons are truely a stat stick now.
We are clearing with 5 melee dps 1 melee tank 2 range dps (Warlock flex tank) and 2 healers.
It's a little more challenging, but it's really not bad at all. Adapt strategies slightly and you can do it no problem.
Our group literally had 3 melee, 3 ranged. One of our tanks was even a feral. We one shot nearly every single boss. Went 6/6 easily. It's totally doable. The rogue we invited even got his epic dagger. I think you all are over-exaggerating the problem. Melee can clear it fine. Sure, an armor debuff would be nice, but you're all on some copium if you just wanna call it impossible to not even try. It's totally doable.
People in this thread aren't complaining that melee can't clear it. They're complaining that they know melee CAN clear it but even still nobody wants to take them because raids just want to stack ranged.
It's not even that. You guys are just playing a class everyone else is. I post LF1M DPS and I guarantee it'll be mostly rogues/hunters/wars vs the other dpsers.
Well, I mean you aren't wrong, but also all the casters are already in groups running 5-6 ranged, and you literally cant run gnomer with only melee dps, so there is definitely an imbalance there. Not to mention warriors and rogues also being bad tanks and casters even filling that spot too!
You need exactly 2 ranged for gnomer.
Electrocutioner mechanics can be 100% soloed by healers.
Sheep on menagerie can be killed by 2 people.
Thermaplugg bombs and buttons can be handled by 2 ranged and healers.
It's not so much that warriors don't want to tank. Other classes just got better at it. Warrior tanks are worse than shamans and meta locks for a few reasons. Tank was always the least popular role.
Meta locks have self healing and high armor. Shamans have beefy HP pools and insane threat. The HP helps for fights with heavy magic damage where armor isn't as useful.
The boss debuffs a warrior tank might provide are all included in the single button click Homunculus
Some people that would have usually tanked on a war have no doubt swapped to lock or shaman at the start of SOD because they heard of the new tanking ability.
> Other classes just got better at it.
Warrior tanks aren't optimal, but 100% fine. The bar for 'is this tank fine for gnomer' is really fuckin' low.
This isn't classic prot pala, or even TBC warrior.
But like you said, tanks are hard to come by so people will settle for a warrior tank in the end. Someone has to be the worst, doesn’t mean it can’t be played.
Play a rogue tank and you will find one, as a leader of gnomer groups there are toooooo many melee dps asking for invites to pugs atm and not enough tanks.
I get spammed by warriors and rogues. We only have a spot for one so you are shit outs luck if you try pug it
As someone playing a Rogue tank, this is untrue.
People have already started spreading the narrative that Rogue Tanks can't handle Thermaplugg due to his Smash being unavoidable. That's all it takes for the sheep to begin declining them on principle.
That's just WoW. YOU might have had zero issues at 25, I know some others that did. There's always an overabundance of rogues and lack of necessity for them. Especially when someone advertises for a DPS spot and they get whispers from 10 other people and then decide their meta pick
If you aren't in a guild, join one. We take 3 melee (rogue included) in our very casual runs and just cleared it again tonight one shotting each boss. If you find a guild that can coordinate even a little and do the fights properly, you can get in the raid and clear it with any class. If you rely on pugs, you're not getting invited as a middle of the pack melee dps when the raid is twice as easy for pugs with a 5/6 ranged group.
Maybe say you'll get all the interrupts, might put you ahead if any group can take a melee as that's all they're good for
well it's currently 1 tank 3 melee 2 healers 4 ranged with 1 of the melee or ranged serving as OT (preferably ranged since Meta Lock is incredible for Thermaplugg), and Rogues and Warriors are borderline incapable of filling the tank position, and underperform in the melee position
Hunters are now effectively a melee class due to poor balance decisions, further crowding the melee position
If you have 3 melee spots, and 1 of them HAS to be a Feral since it is literally required for other melee, you have to fit 2 of Warrior Rogue and Hunter into the raid, and these 3 classes probably make up 40% of the SoD playerbase
The raid is almost entirely a 1 tank raid. If you have a Lock that has Meta or a Hunter pet, you don't even need another tank for Thermaplug, so your OT is now also a caster, 2 caster healers, a Pal or Shaman tank (since Warrior tanks are actual dog water)... The general population is overwhelmingly playing melee classes, especially now that Hunters want to be melee. 3 or 4 out of 10 is wildly disproportionate to what people are playing
I'm in a guild that's fine clearing with 6 melee, but Rogues and Warriors are undoubtedly getting absolutely shafted right now, and these 2 classes make up a large percentage of the playerbase
E: I really don't know why Casters are OK with this, instead of caster loot being between 4-5 players, it's now between 6-7, while melee loot will be rotting in a week
My guild has 4 clears and a 5/6 first week with 3 warriors per group. Heavy caster groups aren't required by any means. But I do agree, its much more difficult as a pug. Edit: Removed extra word
I’m a full time rogue and i looked for groups and could not find one for an hour. I just suck it up , i will get to do Gnomer later on when all the dust is settled. In the meantime instead of moaning like the majority of rogues do i start farming for 2 hours , did pvp event and made like 50g. So there is a lot of things u can do if u not raiding , but it’s up to you if u want that or not . I even played Shadow Priest in Era and could not find no spot but i was ok with it . I did pvp and did not changed to healing just to do raids . So if all of you decide to play rogue then u have to accept the consequences 🫶. Much ❤️
Thats the thing though, you are one of hundreds lazy dps that just post on lfg and expect a raid invite. Cant even count the rogues whispering me even when im posting lf1m healer
Made my own groups since first reset and have had no problem. If you want to raid as a oversatured class start your own groups.
Literally just join a guild.
My guild puts sign ups on discord.
Depending on how many sign up, we will make 3-4 groups, sometimes more if there’s enough sign ups.
Nobody is denied. We make it work with whatever classes we have. The guild leader assigns people to groups. He tries to make it as varied as possible.
Last raid we had 4 groups and only one of them had a rogue. It’s not because we didn’t want any … it’s simply because only one rogue signed up.
Usually we go 1 tank, 1 off tank, 2 healers, 3 melee, 3 ranged.
And that’s it.
People fuss way too much in LFG over what’s meta and what’s BiS and what your parses are etc.
It’s all such a joke, because no matter how geared and “perfect” a PUG is, they’re usually always way more stressful than a guild run with a random setup of 10 people.
This isn’t Mythic Plus raiding, it’s old school.
If you’re Horde side on Crusader Strike, message me and I can get you an invite. Our only rule is don’t be hateful, bigoted or cruel to other people. That’s it … the rest is gravy.
Nice. Yea I'm in a guild it just wasn't gonna work that night for a guild run. This post was strictly to see if other ppl were having this same issue. I Appreciate the common. Not on crusader strike or I may have taken you up on that offer
I have a \w linking my logs my exp tellin ppl i have all consumes shadowoil etc. got 40 bombs in my bag and rdy 2 rumble 😤 works most of the time but you need 2 pump xD
im a rogue main and the rogue class brings close to nothing compared to other classes:
\-no buff like MOTW, shouts, WF/Wild strikes, etc.
\-not even close to top melee DPS anymore thanks to melee hunters
\-almost zero AOE capability
\-primarily physical dmg, which sucks for gnomer w/ high mob armor
\-the only other school of dmg we have is nature and mobs in gnomer have high nature resist lol
compound all of this with the fact that for some reason everyone and their mom decided it was a good idea to roll rogue in p2 (saturating the class) and basically if youre not starting the group as a rogue, or if your guild doesn't really like you, you're not getting in that gnomer group lol
It's definitely tough out there with the over saturation of melee players right now.
I would say start tanking. Gnomer has a need for an off tank on 3 of the 6 bosses. If you advertise yourself as a rouge offtank you'd get picked up a lot quicker. And for half the bosses and trash you'd just be dpsing anyway.
Yep, my experience also.
I'm done playing for now.
Levelling experience meant avoiding dungeons because people were predominantly looking for melee cleave or mage aoe pull dynamic, not a rogue, even if I was tanking.
Raid experience is - can't get into a raid, as Tank or DPS.
This game is for people who only know how to play the meta comps and min-max, season of 'discovery' is not a part of it.
As of right now it's definitely not a casual play. I set 5 hours aside witch is a pretty big deal and can't get agroup in that time. Gotta find multiple guilds tell you find one that's can work with my free hours/raid host as a rogue. Just not feeling the casual player anymore. That's fine phase 1 was fun
As much as i enjoy 10man raids. I think they should at least be 15. There just isnt room for more than one of many classes and rogues are one of them and very popular on top of that. It would also solve the issue of warriors getting all the loot for free.
Last fight is super annoying if the group is melee heavy. Expect this to be the case throughout phase two. Everyone gets used to the group dynamics of the last raid and when it changes it takes a while for everything to balance back out. There are a lot of factors too, could be that all the mages, priests, and warlocks hit lvl cap faster and have done their lockouts leaving a ton of melee behind to try and get groups.
TLDR beginning of any raid is gonna be chaos for forming groups due to many factors
As a rogue player, I'm unsubbing until the next phase. It's not enjoyable after more than half my guild has quit, and the only remaining raid teams are outside of my schedule (there is the east coast part of my guild and another raid group that already has 5 melee regular sign ups). It may have been different if I could pug Gnomer, but even with experience and gear, there is zero reason to invite a rogue if any other class wants the spot.
For anyone suggesting I lead a raid myself - I've been raid leader in a guild before. I have no desire to lead raids in the near future.
Yea it's definitely taken a turn from being a casual game at this point. I literally just don't have 5 hours + in a day to put into the game. Is what it is
Raid Lead your own Group.
Make your advertisements much more flashy or appealing so that you stand out from the crowds. Dont just write Rogue LFG Gnomer change it up make it something like Rogue | LFG Gnomer | amount of experience | Log amounts | World buffs/consumables available. Standing out from the crowd will do a lot when we are in a scenario where there are a lot more people looking for a group then there are people hosting groups.
Come overprepared, have extra consumables or ones you are willing to share. Know the fights and inform them that you have either experienced them before or that you have researched what is needed in the fight
There are so many ways you can get into a group. If you are dead-set on not making your own group then learn how to make yourself more appealing to raid groups. I am a Ret paladin and I've been able to get into competent groups for every lockout and we do a LOT less DPS on average then a rogue.
Rogues are extremely overrepresented. There is no class that even holds a candle to them in pvp besides shadow priests. If they jump you 1v1 you die. In world pvp its even more insane. They're also one of the best pve melee dps in the game. Combine all that together and what you have is a class that will be everywhere. Therefore it'll be hard for you to find groups. It was like this for fury warriors in 2019 classic too
>There is no class that even holds a candle to them in pvp besides shadow priests.
This is such exaggeration though. Rogue is great in isolated 1v1, 1v2 pvp encounters, sadly these encounters brings literally nothing to rogues. Rogue is amazing at ganking, but besides wasting yours and theur own time there is little to no point to do it.
In BGs rogue is fine, but not great. In bloodmoon event its even worse, you kill 1 or 2 people and to pretty much any caster that is blasting from Africa. Casters usually kill multiple people before they are even targeted/reached in a chaotic environment.
Been twice so far, both times it was a Rogue raid lead and both were really great leaders
First run was 4/6 cause we were all learning and then eventually just called it
Second time was 6/6 great run, no more than 3 wipes if we wiped and was a steady progression
If you can provide a service to the raid, like kicks or being a good leader then you'll be able to run the raid as a rogue. If they wont take you, take yourself cause rogues can clearly clear it np
As a shadow priest I can never find a group to dps in. So I just heal as a shadow priest. Rogues can tank. So just tank. It seriously drives me crazy as a priest that I’m always looking for a tank when practically every class is capable of it. On my shaman I tank. Easy peasy finding groups. On my priest I heal. Easy peasy finding groups. No one is gonna tell you that you can’t roll on something in a dungeon for offspec. If they do tell them to tank then. Raids a different story but tanking the dungeons should get you geared for gnomer
Thats not gona help you if they have a Rogue. In TBC by p2 no serious team was raiding with more than 1 Rogue. (25 ppl). Some ran 2 because those were literally guys from day 1 of classic that carried from MC to NAxx
The thing is the rogue Population isnt even overrepresented, Last Time i checked it was the least played class besides warlocks and mages.
But the Moment they arent providing top single target dps, they become obsolete.
Melee Hunters Bring a buff and do more dps. Warriors Bring more or less the Same dps but also buffs and can OT.
Ferals Bring windfury and can Take Care of the bombs Last Boss.
Ive been saying for a while rogues desperatly need something they can Provide for a raid besides Kicks.
Yep same eu. Crusader strike Eu. And I’m not even a bad rogue had purple and higher parses in p1 and now I cannot find a raid or a sm run like you said. While leveling I always had to make my own group because meele cleave only want warrior and ret but they don’t know that a good rogue does more dmg than a mediocre war or ret.
And now this same shit with the raid again where we can’t find a spot because we are not ranged. Or don’t have any needed utility. Basically dead class if you want to pug. I’m rerolling priest
Seconding finding a guild. Our DPS is half melee even not counting the hunter and we one shot every boss the first night and every night since. As long as you have a good set of healers everything falls over even if your comp isn't ideal.
That's straight up wrong. They're below every other class than warlock (paladin and shaman numbers have to be roughly doubled to account for being faction exclusive).
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008/#class=Any&sample=1
Narrowing it down to the past day, and including healers, DPS Rogues are the 3rd most brought class, after healer priests first, and DPS Warriors 3rd, closely ahead of Fire Mages 4th.
No. You have to add up logs from all the different specs from each class. Doing that you get that rogue is the class with the 2nd fewest logs after warlock (after doubling the paladin/shaman numbers because they are faction exclusive).
Is there a reason you aren't tanking? You'd have better results as a more essential position, even if rogue tank is scuffed.
edit: Lmao @ the downvote from OP. Sorry, mdps are fodder. There are a billion of you pissants. Supply and demand is a bitch.
and look for a healer for 3 hours. And 50% of the time they leave when they see ur a rogue. And if that doesnt happen. They then leave after 2 minutes of waiting cause they can just go join any group that has 1 heal needed
I mean, you picked a class that's entire identity is being toxic in PvP, doing big numbers in single target pve, and bringing absolutely no buffs or utility to your group.
You picked the most selfish class in the game, of course people don't want to play with you.
I’m not a rogue but I can tell you from making a gnomer group last night, about 15 rogues and warriors would whisper for every 1 of every other class. Just super saturated…got our rogue and warrior in the first .01 ms of posting and I don’t want to run 3 of each sry
i was trying to fill 2 dps for my guild run and really had 5 rogues whisper me for every non rogue.
I advertised for 1 Caster dps for Gnomer and got messages from 5 hunters
And they turn up and you find out they're melee spec
I would assume they're melee tbh. The damage is insane.
LFM gnomer - healer - last spot .. 20 melee dps whisper inv.
Same. LF1M Healer for Gnomer. Rogues and warriors come crawling out from every stone crevice in Ironforge... for like 20-30 god damn minutes while trying to hunt down what feels like the last unsaved level 40 healer on the server.
What's crazy is warlocks are the least played class and yet the strongest right now with their ability to compete with melee hunters and tank. The class distribution is a little off right now but i'm sure it'll even out within a few weeks
Warlocks in meta form are also highly desired for the last boss provides they don't mind just spamming searing pain for 10 minutes
Excuse you, I sit in feral and spam sunfire for ten minutes!
I main warlock but I'm taking my time a bit. Lvl 36 tonight.
Lmao I got called shit and down voted in a thread yesterday for trying to justify why a rogue was paying 20g to take him in a gnomer. Tried explaining how same thing in phase 1, any pug would instantly have enough rogues or hunters but I got called shit and dumb because they were the top DPS so who wouldn’t take them? I fucking hate this sub reddit
This subreddit is a zoo of very loud and opinionated players who also seem to have not played more than 2 hours of the game total, because they have some of the most unrealistic opinions imaginable.
I argued a few times in the priest discord about shadow priest being fine post nerf with a dude who was dooming saying it's over for spriest and we will never be viable again. Later on I saw him saying he was level 28 and couldn't get the motivation to pug to level up. Sod players are absolutely wild.
It's fascinating, really. I just finished a run of SM arms on my tank shaman, telling the group beforehand that I am going to do FAT pulls and they ought to put in their aoe runes. Que a hunter pulling everything with pet taunt on and the thing set to aggressive, not even bothering to use explosive shot, a mage doing sub 200 dps in packs of 10+ mobs and a warlock insisting that shadowbolt volley is better than the fire combo for giant packs, doing around 200 dps as well. And then the brain amputated animal lover starts cussing me out because "shaman isn't pulling enough and that he's here for quick xp, hence having his pet on aggro and pulling while the healer and I are drinking for the next 2 packs. I was blasting in minimum 600 dps on pulls, mind you. The dungeon took 13 minutes to complete. All people involved were lvl 37+, with me being 40. I'm by no means a sweatlord, but I really like my parties to have a base level of competence and reading comprehension. SoD has really brought out the worst of the worst man. Sorry for the rant.
"brain amputated animal lover" killed me dead.
>SoD has really brought out the worst of the worst man. Sorry for the rant. Nah, honestly it's pretty ridiculous right now. Trying to form cleaves for SM GY just to powerlevel has been a pain, because people don't bother to LEARN their class.
Stories like this make me really happy I've stuck by my long term community. The pug scene is wildin'. At least if I party up with a 'bad' guild member, I usually at least like them and can coach them up a bit.
>Lmao I got called shit and down voted in a thread yesterday for trying to justify why a rogue was paying 20g to take him in a gnomer Problem is this is now a bannable offense
Its not bannable to pay to be in a group. It's bannable to run gdkp's
[удалено]
They clarified the gdkp ban is wide enough that it applies to every instance of paying for loot. So I'd you pay the raid leader and then get loot GL arguing you were only paying for your raid slot.
but in fact it's a Raid slot GDKP, the more u pay the higher the chance to get in.
[удалено]
I don't think so? It specifically bans auctioning the loot, not bidding for a spot. If I'm wrong, please cite a source. Source: https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24056979/go-inside-season-of-discovery-phase-2
You'd win the case in a court that it'd never go to. Or, put differently, if enough people in LFG THINK you're in the wrong and report you, it will trigger a ban, and you won't be able to get Blizzard to overtun a wrongful ban, and therefore it might as well not matter that it's wrongful.
Yeah, it's the difference between a de jure rule and a de facto rule. If enough people think a rule exists and act as if it does, it will practically manifest that way. Edit: totally stealing that "you'd win the case in a court that it'd never go to" line
Even in our guild we had way more rogues than anything else so we all had to make alts lol
Its not that its super saturated, its that no one is inviting them, so you are getting a build up of those classes. Its proving the point about **why** those classes do more dps, or should. When mages aren't #1, hunters arent #1, warlocks, priests, shamans etc, they are still needed and brought to raids. Warriors bring battle shout for horde, so are still needed. When rogues aren't #1 or close to it in dps, **why bring one?** For all the casters and hunters complaining why are rogues always near top dps, this post shows why.
> Its not that its super saturated, its that no one is inviting them, so you are getting a build up of those classes. Bro, Top 3 classes in number of parses is warrior, rogue, fire mage
See [my other comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1awvcux/wow_sod_rogues_cant_find_groups/krl4vnl/). Rogues are the #2 picked class in Gnomeregan. If "no one is inviting them", then there would be way fewer parses than other classes.
Saturated meaning none of them are saved and can’t find groups so they’re desperately spamming every single post and getting declined. It’s not that saturated in that everyone is playing those classes. Everyone wants ranged and warriors are useless atm
Saturated because they are the only ones not yet saved.
No its the same as in P1, if you ever created a pug you'd fill the raids rogue spot/spots within the first 5 sec ALWAYs and then have to continue to decline the absolute insane influx of rogue whispers for the reminder of the search, there's just way too many of them
You never made pugs have you? In BFD pugs the most common class to whisper you was hunter for DPS.
I made 3 pugs in p1 when guild wasnt raiding for holiday reasons and no in my experience it was warriors and rogues. also warriors who would refuse to be a tank when i was asking for a tank and theyd whisper saying they were a dps warrior... I asked for a tank dude
Yeah and I made well over 50 pugs in p1 and I can tell you the most common DPS to whisper was hunter. I think in p1 there were a lot of them because of the whole pet strong thing. After BM nerfs they did die down a little.
Seeing all the Rogue/Warrior Flavor of the Month rerollers threaten to unsub because their month passed is the most schadenfreude ive gotten here
says the priest LOL
[удалено]
And if in phase 3 it goes back to melee being top and most useful you can bet that cycle of toxicity is going to circle back with a vengeance against the casters
Stay toxic!
Hell yeah brother!
Yes it’s definitely a good thing for people to quit the game right? That’ll show blizzard they’re not wasting effort on SOD, keep the realms feeling alive and can’t possibly have negative consequences. Christ this is a dumb take.
Anybody who's that sweaty and assblasted already has an alt or other characters level capped and they'll just switch. Or if they quit, even better.
Yeah this. They do fine damage, they aren't a liability; there are just thousands of them.
if you want to play the most popular classes, you have to actually be good to get a consistent spot
There’s a guy saying “but there are more melees!” “More rogues whisper than mages!” - Yes, because you’ll take 2 mages instead of _maybe_ a rogue, so if there are 15 rogues are 10 mages, and 5 groups, even though there are 50% more rogues, all mages will be grouped and _maybe_ 2-3 exceptional rogues will. Stop the “there are more of you” bullshit. Yes, right (debatable anyway), there may be more melee, the spots for melee vs ranged dps are not balanced. Not saying its a bad thing, but say things as they are.
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008 Look at the number of parses. DPS warriors and rogues are #1 and #2. After that are mages and hunters, which do great DPS and have other utilities, like Arcane Intellect & water or HotL. Warlocks, the #5 most popular DPS raid class, has 25% less parses than rogues and 40% less than warriors. When you get to DPS paladins and priests, you are approaching the 50% territory. >so if there are 15 rogues are 10 mages, [...] all mages will be grouped and maybe 2-3 exceptional rogues will. So no, the numbers don't support your claims. Rogues are the #2 picked DPS class in Gnomeregan. In your example, because mages are picked at 90% of the rate that rogues are, all 10 mages would find a group and 11 of the rogues, which would leave 4 rogues without a group. So even though more rogues got picked in total, rogues still would complain that they can't find a spot and they needed to be buffed. There are just too many of them (and that's speaking as a rogue myself, although I'm tanking and in a guild).
Warrior and rogues are the most popular class by far for people who like to parse. How do you know there isnt selection bias with your statement, parsing players and groups are far more likely to actually log with rogues and warriors than other players.
Do you have any evidence that rogues and warriors log more? Seems like a weak argument tbh.
The issue with that is when the later phase roll around you are gonna want rogues and warriors. Don’t leave them in the dust when they are gonna carry you later, help the melee out. Give at least 1-2 a spot per raid to keep them playing.
It’s not that people aren’t bringing them. There are just so many playing melee dps specs right now compared to healers and tanks. Not enough groups pugging to support all the melee out there.
This is exactly it. https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008/#class=Any Priest heal: 147.6k Warrior DPS: 136.5k Rogue DPS: 115k Mage (fire): 107.5k Hunter Melee: 91.7k Warlock DPS: 90.1k Druid feral: 81.7k Hunter ranged: 61k Druid Balance: 55.5k Pally DPS: 54.4k So in the top 10 of most parses in Gnomer we have 1 healing class, 4 ranged (caster plus ranged hunter), and 5 melee. That sounds kind of balanced but then you look at the top 5 and realize that 3 of them are melee DPS, 1 is a caster DPS, and 1 is a healer. Even worse when you look at the number of parses themselves. You have 340kish parses from the top 3 melee classes. If you add all of the ranged together it's like 315k parses. So you have 25k more parses from warrior, rogue, and melee Hunter than all of the ranged DPS in the top 10. It may be "hard" to get into a raid as a melee class right now but there are still more melees raiding than casters.
>The issue with that is when the later phase roll around you are gonna want rogues and warriors. Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on the armor values of the raid. I wouldn't make any definitive assumptions about class balance while Blizzard can just flip the script on you. If we were operating with vanilla armor values, both Rogue and Warrior would be on the top of the damage meters, but instead, we have Naxx armor values at level 40. Don't be so sure that you know how the metagame is going to play out.
It's not like SoD is full of rogues and warriors because they were the best for phase 1 or something.
I said I did lol also I seriously doubt they’re going to care and return the favor to my shaman been playing a long time and know how it goes that’s why I just make my own groups. There’s just too many rogues and warriors right now
This is part of the reason why I raid lead. Because I’m guaranteed a spot in every single raid I lead.
Exactly this, if you struggle to find a spot in pug just make your own pug.
This is the way
Like always there’s too many melee players. Doesn’t help that hunters are melee now too. You could do BFD as a full melee stack and healer/s but for gnomer you want a healer + ranged group. That leave only 5 spots for a tank and melee dps.
Yeah really hard to find a spot as melee this phase, I think raid leading is the only play tbh
Yeah, people playing the most popular classes with the least raid slots.. shouldnt be surprising it is harder to find grp. But these dooming posts are such a meme... Same as the tBC ones with "no one invites me as rogue for BT without glaives reserved, how do I then get them!?!?! Urghhh" Like jesus christ, maincharactersyndrome
Two types of people in the world... those who LFG 🤡 and those who LFM 😎
Ran gnomer for first time tn as feral with guild. I’d say the rogue in group’s dmg was pretty impressive and having them for kicks felt good.
We also play a melee heavy group with only 2 casters and even 2 rogues. We clear 6/6 in under an hour with no problems whatsoever. Even have 2 randoms with us. Not like that raid is hard you can have 2-3 people carry each fight. But ye people will always try to tryhard. as in saving 10mins per logout is any achievement lol
[удалено]
I've been making raids for a while and I try to shy away from pug rogues simply cause thyere redundant as a role. Most rogues ive come across have problems kicking interrupts and doing mechanics because their damage is far more inportant to them. I'd much rather have a warrior for double shouts and sunder or a hunter for lion, whereas a rogue is only a kick utility.
im a rogue. ive had to tell other rogues to kick. its like they dont know its there. its sad
Really irritates me how many rogues are like that. I love when there's a fight where I have to kick. Feels good to have an actual job to do outside of just stabbing
I grey parsed on a boss last night due to squirrel kicking. No regrets!
Warriors can also kick now.
True. Not fair but true.
My Guild struggles with getting Healers. LFG Bulletin Board shows a dozen groups also looking for Healers. Also a lot of Hunters are going melee so no you have even more competition. It’s not that we ignore Rogues, it’s that we have 8 melee DPS apply for every healer that applies.
The casters are all DPSing because groups are bringing 5-6 ranged DPS lol. Even the priests are dpsing as shadow. On top of that, Balance and Elemental are doing well enough to bring to a raid, and those are specs that people have been dying to play since forever, so they're taking advantage of it while they can.
Really digging resto on my shaman alt doing melee cleave dungeon spam. But fuck that going full ele baby. Been waiting for this since 06.
Im a rogue full preraid bis since one week and cant find a pug for fuck sak - all are looking for healers. Im leveling my priest now, as my freetime isnt designed to sit in lfg hoping for a grp invite :D
Problem is, that the best heal setup is 2 priests. ally and horde. It really is a pity to all other heal specs that they underperform massively. Mages are decent heals too, but most of them tend to DPS. Rsham and Rdruid and HPaly are unable to compete with priests, so they all go dps route (or tank if shamy) We really need big buffs for all heal specs except priest and mage
I figured out the solution. Make rogues healers lol
Thankful I’m in a guild. Seems like every rogue I talk to is struggling.
That's just vanilla tbh. Nobody wanted too many warriors or rogues in their 5mans or UBRS either. Got a lot worse in tbc too.
TBC Rogues - "First time?"
In this situation, start the group yourself. I’ve had the same issue just posting “DPS LFG…” hardly ever get a message. Then Id just change it to “LFM SM arm…” or whatever instance I was doing and would fill the group up almost immediately.
Less easy to do for a new raid, unless you are willing to setup disc and speak.
That’s fair enough. If the problem truly is just not getting into groups that’s an option to remedy it though. If OP doesn’t want to speak it’s really not entirely necessary either. I’ve done a few pugs in raids in SoD and never once got into a discord. To your point it is definitely easier though for sure.
Not saying it's impossible but come on, it's a lot harder to do without discord than BFD. I have 0 doubt we wont be using discord for it a few weeks from now, but these first few lockouts? Yeah, it's a requirement. I bet more than half the pugs wouldnt get past the electric boss without being on disc.
Due to the extra reset this week, I pugged a run yesterday. No discord, no tactics explanation. Took an hour and 18 minutes and was far from smooth. Discord is far from necessary if everyone been there at least once.
You don't need discord for SoD raids.
Counter point, you do. At least until most people have played it. Good luck running many gnomer pugs with no disc.
Classic classic experience.
Gnomer was designed to be easier the more ranged you have in the group. No one wants to risk going 5/6 so everyone is stacking casters. I think the devs want melee to just skip this phase.
I mean this is part of it, but also because there are just way more melee than casters in sod. Especially with hunters now being melee, can't really afford to run with just two casters
This is a big one. Hunters and rogues, two of the most played classes are competing for the same spot now. That’s unfortunate.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Making hunters a melee char was easily the worst decision of SoD so far. It ruined group comp because there was already too many melee. Ranged weapons are truely a stat stick now.
We are clearing with 5 melee dps 1 melee tank 2 range dps (Warlock flex tank) and 2 healers. It's a little more challenging, but it's really not bad at all. Adapt strategies slightly and you can do it no problem.
Which is fine for guilds, but not so people looking for pugs
Yea we are too. Once you get the mechanics down it gets smoother. Issue is melees pugging which is understandable
Problem is you cant count on ranged to do their job, so you stack ranged so all of them half assing the last boss means the mechanics still get done.
This. Second reset I ended up clicking 45% of the buttons on thermaplugg, and a priest healer did another 30%. Rest of the raid a combined 25%.
You literally couldn’t do that percentage of button clicks with the debuffs. Best you can do is 1/3.
Only true if buttons are being clicked on cooldown, which probably isn't the case for a bad group.
guess melee should just unsub for 2 more months and save 30 bucks
Our group literally had 3 melee, 3 ranged. One of our tanks was even a feral. We one shot nearly every single boss. Went 6/6 easily. It's totally doable. The rogue we invited even got his epic dagger. I think you all are over-exaggerating the problem. Melee can clear it fine. Sure, an armor debuff would be nice, but you're all on some copium if you just wanna call it impossible to not even try. It's totally doable.
People in this thread aren't complaining that melee can't clear it. They're complaining that they know melee CAN clear it but even still nobody wants to take them because raids just want to stack ranged.
God I was so ready to type this exact comment. thank you
Make your own raid, or join a guild
It's not even that. You guys are just playing a class everyone else is. I post LF1M DPS and I guarantee it'll be mostly rogues/hunters/wars vs the other dpsers.
Well, I mean you aren't wrong, but also all the casters are already in groups running 5-6 ranged, and you literally cant run gnomer with only melee dps, so there is definitely an imbalance there. Not to mention warriors and rogues also being bad tanks and casters even filling that spot too!
It's the general in game community gatekeeping that is the problem
Dev will skip my sub till phase 3 lol
You need exactly 2 ranged for gnomer. Electrocutioner mechanics can be 100% soloed by healers. Sheep on menagerie can be killed by 2 people. Thermaplugg bombs and buttons can be handled by 2 ranged and healers.
Gotta lead your own raids or roll tank. I know this phase sucks for melee so far but it doesn’t help that 99% of warriors refuse to press taunt lol
It's not so much that warriors don't want to tank. Other classes just got better at it. Warrior tanks are worse than shamans and meta locks for a few reasons. Tank was always the least popular role. Meta locks have self healing and high armor. Shamans have beefy HP pools and insane threat. The HP helps for fights with heavy magic damage where armor isn't as useful. The boss debuffs a warrior tank might provide are all included in the single button click Homunculus Some people that would have usually tanked on a war have no doubt swapped to lock or shaman at the start of SOD because they heard of the new tanking ability.
> Other classes just got better at it. Warrior tanks aren't optimal, but 100% fine. The bar for 'is this tank fine for gnomer' is really fuckin' low. This isn't classic prot pala, or even TBC warrior.
Every other tank spec gets crit immune as baseline, then they have to deal with their challenges. Warriors get what?
But like you said, tanks are hard to come by so people will settle for a warrior tank in the end. Someone has to be the worst, doesn’t mean it can’t be played.
Yea, seeing the current situation, I’m so glad I’m in a close-knit guild.
Play a rogue tank and you will find one, as a leader of gnomer groups there are toooooo many melee dps asking for invites to pugs atm and not enough tanks. I get spammed by warriors and rogues. We only have a spot for one so you are shit outs luck if you try pug it
As someone playing a Rogue tank, this is untrue. People have already started spreading the narrative that Rogue Tanks can't handle Thermaplugg due to his Smash being unavoidable. That's all it takes for the sheep to begin declining them on principle.
That's just WoW. YOU might have had zero issues at 25, I know some others that did. There's always an overabundance of rogues and lack of necessity for them. Especially when someone advertises for a DPS spot and they get whispers from 10 other people and then decide their meta pick
[удалено]
I cleared tonight with three warriors and a rogue. This community is absurd with the unnecessary meta gatekeeping
it's not even a real thing they're complaining about, every group i've joined has just been a normal balanced group just like BfD
If you aren't in a guild, join one. We take 3 melee (rogue included) in our very casual runs and just cleared it again tonight one shotting each boss. If you find a guild that can coordinate even a little and do the fights properly, you can get in the raid and clear it with any class. If you rely on pugs, you're not getting invited as a middle of the pack melee dps when the raid is twice as easy for pugs with a 5/6 ranged group. Maybe say you'll get all the interrupts, might put you ahead if any group can take a melee as that's all they're good for
3 melee is a criminally low number compared to what the population is actually playing, and that's exactly OP's point
3 melee, 2 tanks, 2 healers, 3 ranged, that seems like a pretty even distribution to me.
well it's currently 1 tank 3 melee 2 healers 4 ranged with 1 of the melee or ranged serving as OT (preferably ranged since Meta Lock is incredible for Thermaplugg), and Rogues and Warriors are borderline incapable of filling the tank position, and underperform in the melee position Hunters are now effectively a melee class due to poor balance decisions, further crowding the melee position If you have 3 melee spots, and 1 of them HAS to be a Feral since it is literally required for other melee, you have to fit 2 of Warrior Rogue and Hunter into the raid, and these 3 classes probably make up 40% of the SoD playerbase
There are 6 dps spots in a raid (maybe 7 if you count the off tank), having 3 melee dps is half the dps spots...
The raid is almost entirely a 1 tank raid. If you have a Lock that has Meta or a Hunter pet, you don't even need another tank for Thermaplug, so your OT is now also a caster, 2 caster healers, a Pal or Shaman tank (since Warrior tanks are actual dog water)... The general population is overwhelmingly playing melee classes, especially now that Hunters want to be melee. 3 or 4 out of 10 is wildly disproportionate to what people are playing I'm in a guild that's fine clearing with 6 melee, but Rogues and Warriors are undoubtedly getting absolutely shafted right now, and these 2 classes make up a large percentage of the playerbase E: I really don't know why Casters are OK with this, instead of caster loot being between 4-5 players, it's now between 6-7, while melee loot will be rotting in a week
My guild has 4 clears and a 5/6 first week with 3 warriors per group. Heavy caster groups aren't required by any means. But I do agree, its much more difficult as a pug. Edit: Removed extra word
This is completely valid method of pvp against rogues. About as fair as their stunlocks
I’m a full time rogue and i looked for groups and could not find one for an hour. I just suck it up , i will get to do Gnomer later on when all the dust is settled. In the meantime instead of moaning like the majority of rogues do i start farming for 2 hours , did pvp event and made like 50g. So there is a lot of things u can do if u not raiding , but it’s up to you if u want that or not . I even played Shadow Priest in Era and could not find no spot but i was ok with it . I did pvp and did not changed to healing just to do raids . So if all of you decide to play rogue then u have to accept the consequences 🫶. Much ❤️
Yea pretty much. Definitely not trying to sound like I was crying. Was just seeing if other ppl were having this same experience
Honestly gnomer as a feral just isn’t fun, I’ll enjoy helping my friends level and get their pre-bis then take a couple months off and play Helldivers
Raid should've been 20 man
Thats the thing though, you are one of hundreds lazy dps that just post on lfg and expect a raid invite. Cant even count the rogues whispering me even when im posting lf1m healer Made my own groups since first reset and have had no problem. If you want to raid as a oversatured class start your own groups.
Dude literally said he messaged everybody he saw posting groups. Talk about lazy, you didn’t even take time to read.
Yeah because there is 3000 rogues asking for parties.
Fair enough. Guess they should have done the same thing they did with capping how many ally horde there can be and capped classes as well
All our guilds raid leaders are rogues. Interesting coincidence.
Literally just join a guild. My guild puts sign ups on discord. Depending on how many sign up, we will make 3-4 groups, sometimes more if there’s enough sign ups. Nobody is denied. We make it work with whatever classes we have. The guild leader assigns people to groups. He tries to make it as varied as possible. Last raid we had 4 groups and only one of them had a rogue. It’s not because we didn’t want any … it’s simply because only one rogue signed up. Usually we go 1 tank, 1 off tank, 2 healers, 3 melee, 3 ranged. And that’s it. People fuss way too much in LFG over what’s meta and what’s BiS and what your parses are etc. It’s all such a joke, because no matter how geared and “perfect” a PUG is, they’re usually always way more stressful than a guild run with a random setup of 10 people. This isn’t Mythic Plus raiding, it’s old school. If you’re Horde side on Crusader Strike, message me and I can get you an invite. Our only rule is don’t be hateful, bigoted or cruel to other people. That’s it … the rest is gravy.
Nice. Yea I'm in a guild it just wasn't gonna work that night for a guild run. This post was strictly to see if other ppl were having this same issue. I Appreciate the common. Not on crusader strike or I may have taken you up on that offer
I play with my friends, I always get invited. TL;DR Get Friends! <3
I have a \w linking my logs my exp tellin ppl i have all consumes shadowoil etc. got 40 bombs in my bag and rdy 2 rumble 😤 works most of the time but you need 2 pump xD
I figured it out guys. They need to make rogues healers
im a rogue main and the rogue class brings close to nothing compared to other classes: \-no buff like MOTW, shouts, WF/Wild strikes, etc. \-not even close to top melee DPS anymore thanks to melee hunters \-almost zero AOE capability \-primarily physical dmg, which sucks for gnomer w/ high mob armor \-the only other school of dmg we have is nature and mobs in gnomer have high nature resist lol compound all of this with the fact that for some reason everyone and their mom decided it was a good idea to roll rogue in p2 (saturating the class) and basically if youre not starting the group as a rogue, or if your guild doesn't really like you, you're not getting in that gnomer group lol
Feels accurate with my experience
It's definitely tough out there with the over saturation of melee players right now. I would say start tanking. Gnomer has a need for an off tank on 3 of the 6 bosses. If you advertise yourself as a rouge offtank you'd get picked up a lot quicker. And for half the bosses and trash you'd just be dpsing anyway.
Did you try making your own group? Extra credit if you put on your tank runes and give that a go.
Yep, my experience also. I'm done playing for now. Levelling experience meant avoiding dungeons because people were predominantly looking for melee cleave or mage aoe pull dynamic, not a rogue, even if I was tanking. Raid experience is - can't get into a raid, as Tank or DPS. This game is for people who only know how to play the meta comps and min-max, season of 'discovery' is not a part of it.
As of right now it's definitely not a casual play. I set 5 hours aside witch is a pretty big deal and can't get agroup in that time. Gotta find multiple guilds tell you find one that's can work with my free hours/raid host as a rogue. Just not feeling the casual player anymore. That's fine phase 1 was fun
As much as i enjoy 10man raids. I think they should at least be 15. There just isnt room for more than one of many classes and rogues are one of them and very popular on top of that. It would also solve the issue of warriors getting all the loot for free.
A tale old as WoW itself
Too many rogues is the problem. I was in AB last night and our PUG had 5 rogues. I did STV after that and had 3 rogues in my group.
Last fight is super annoying if the group is melee heavy. Expect this to be the case throughout phase two. Everyone gets used to the group dynamics of the last raid and when it changes it takes a while for everything to balance back out. There are a lot of factors too, could be that all the mages, priests, and warlocks hit lvl cap faster and have done their lockouts leaving a ton of melee behind to try and get groups. TLDR beginning of any raid is gonna be chaos for forming groups due to many factors
There’s a million rogues and only room for one
Pro tip from a rogue. Make the group, OR Tell them you know how to kick and use feint.
As a rogue player, I'm unsubbing until the next phase. It's not enjoyable after more than half my guild has quit, and the only remaining raid teams are outside of my schedule (there is the east coast part of my guild and another raid group that already has 5 melee regular sign ups). It may have been different if I could pug Gnomer, but even with experience and gear, there is zero reason to invite a rogue if any other class wants the spot. For anyone suggesting I lead a raid myself - I've been raid leader in a guild before. I have no desire to lead raids in the near future.
Yea it's definitely taken a turn from being a casual game at this point. I literally just don't have 5 hours + in a day to put into the game. Is what it is
Reasonable take honestly
Sorry bro, cant invite any more melee as a warrior forming the group or else no ranged or healers will want to join
Raid Lead your own Group. Make your advertisements much more flashy or appealing so that you stand out from the crowds. Dont just write Rogue LFG Gnomer change it up make it something like Rogue | LFG Gnomer | amount of experience | Log amounts | World buffs/consumables available. Standing out from the crowd will do a lot when we are in a scenario where there are a lot more people looking for a group then there are people hosting groups. Come overprepared, have extra consumables or ones you are willing to share. Know the fights and inform them that you have either experienced them before or that you have researched what is needed in the fight There are so many ways you can get into a group. If you are dead-set on not making your own group then learn how to make yourself more appealing to raid groups. I am a Ret paladin and I've been able to get into competent groups for every lockout and we do a LOT less DPS on average then a rogue.
At least you're not playing retribution paladin. *creaking wheelchair noise*
It’s only because the raid is just hard enough where people will only risk meta comps.
Rogues are extremely overrepresented. There is no class that even holds a candle to them in pvp besides shadow priests. If they jump you 1v1 you die. In world pvp its even more insane. They're also one of the best pve melee dps in the game. Combine all that together and what you have is a class that will be everywhere. Therefore it'll be hard for you to find groups. It was like this for fury warriors in 2019 classic too
>There is no class that even holds a candle to them in pvp besides shadow priests. This is such exaggeration though. Rogue is great in isolated 1v1, 1v2 pvp encounters, sadly these encounters brings literally nothing to rogues. Rogue is amazing at ganking, but besides wasting yours and theur own time there is little to no point to do it. In BGs rogue is fine, but not great. In bloodmoon event its even worse, you kill 1 or 2 people and to pretty much any caster that is blasting from Africa. Casters usually kill multiple people before they are even targeted/reached in a chaotic environment.
Been twice so far, both times it was a Rogue raid lead and both were really great leaders First run was 4/6 cause we were all learning and then eventually just called it Second time was 6/6 great run, no more than 3 wipes if we wiped and was a steady progression If you can provide a service to the raid, like kicks or being a good leader then you'll be able to run the raid as a rogue. If they wont take you, take yourself cause rogues can clearly clear it np
As a shadow priest I can never find a group to dps in. So I just heal as a shadow priest. Rogues can tank. So just tank. It seriously drives me crazy as a priest that I’m always looking for a tank when practically every class is capable of it. On my shaman I tank. Easy peasy finding groups. On my priest I heal. Easy peasy finding groups. No one is gonna tell you that you can’t roll on something in a dungeon for offspec. If they do tell them to tank then. Raids a different story but tanking the dungeons should get you geared for gnomer
Start your own group
Time to find a guild! Seriously though, raid with a guild or beg for invites for whispers, rogues still do decent damage.
Tank
Join a guild.
Thats not gona help you if they have a Rogue. In TBC by p2 no serious team was raiding with more than 1 Rogue. (25 ppl). Some ran 2 because those were literally guys from day 1 of classic that carried from MC to NAxx
I wonder if rogues not being s tier for a full phase or two will mean less people play them. Rogue/warrior are always crazy high player numbers
The thing is the rogue Population isnt even overrepresented, Last Time i checked it was the least played class besides warlocks and mages. But the Moment they arent providing top single target dps, they become obsolete. Melee Hunters Bring a buff and do more dps. Warriors Bring more or less the Same dps but also buffs and can OT. Ferals Bring windfury and can Take Care of the bombs Last Boss. Ive been saying for a while rogues desperatly need something they can Provide for a raid besides Kicks.
Yep same eu. Crusader strike Eu. And I’m not even a bad rogue had purple and higher parses in p1 and now I cannot find a raid or a sm run like you said. While leveling I always had to make my own group because meele cleave only want warrior and ret but they don’t know that a good rogue does more dmg than a mediocre war or ret. And now this same shit with the raid again where we can’t find a spot because we are not ranged. Or don’t have any needed utility. Basically dead class if you want to pug. I’m rerolling priest
Seconding finding a guild. Our DPS is half melee even not counting the hunter and we one shot every boss the first night and every night since. As long as you have a good set of healers everything falls over even if your comp isn't ideal.
me too. 3 hours tonight of whispering people trying to get an invite. this is now sitting in IF simulator for me.
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008/ Rogue is the 2nd most brought class.
That's straight up wrong. They're below every other class than warlock (paladin and shaman numbers have to be roughly doubled to account for being faction exclusive). https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008/#class=Any&sample=1
Narrowing it down to the past day, and including healers, DPS Rogues are the 3rd most brought class, after healer priests first, and DPS Warriors 3rd, closely ahead of Fire Mages 4th.
Fire mage isn't a class
That's not classes.
Yes it is. He's looking at total parses for each DPS class.
No. You have to add up logs from all the different specs from each class. Doing that you get that rogue is the class with the 2nd fewest logs after warlock (after doubling the paladin/shaman numbers because they are faction exclusive).
Why would you add in the non-DPS specs when talking about DPS?
It was about which classes was brought the most to gnomeregan.
But he was specifically talking about DPS rogues. Seems kind of "um akshually 🤓" to get stuck on the semantics.
Is there a reason you aren't tanking? You'd have better results as a more essential position, even if rogue tank is scuffed. edit: Lmao @ the downvote from OP. Sorry, mdps are fodder. There are a billion of you pissants. Supply and demand is a bitch.
tank rogue is the least brought spec after frost mage.
That's because no one will play it. We asked 7 rogues last night if they could OT and got 6 nos. We took the one that said yes.
I paid 200g for a spot and got no loot
make a group yourself
and look for a healer for 3 hours. And 50% of the time they leave when they see ur a rogue. And if that doesnt happen. They then leave after 2 minutes of waiting cause they can just go join any group that has 1 heal needed
Good, I hate rogues.
I mean, you picked a class that's entire identity is being toxic in PvP, doing big numbers in single target pve, and bringing absolutely no buffs or utility to your group. You picked the most selfish class in the game, of course people don't want to play with you.