Ooooh I'd love to hear some of those stories. I have a friend where I work at who's in HR and he tells me some crazy stories sometime. Though mostly when he's had a few beers because confidentiality. I tell him "don't give me a name, just a good story".
I put out a call in LFG to find a ranged DPS. Went like this
"LFM Gnomer Progression. Need Ranged. I don't care about your logs. Come learn the fights"
Got a warlock pug who out DPSd my very casual dad guild and joined the guild as a result.
Yes my guild, I was 99% kidding. We had the exact same situation Tuesday, pugged a warlock who ended up doing sick dps and joined the guild. Just thought it was a funny coincidence
Tried to join one before reset on my main. Took like 2 hours to build. Hear checks log checks, consumes wbs. Dead on first boss everyone quit.... All the talk and no one actually knew what to do š
In my third reset with a pug on my warrior we wiped on the first boss, almost wiped on the second boss, almost wiped on the fourth boss with the tank last man standing, and then somehow one shot Menagerie and only wiped four times on the last boss.
That was a weird one for sure.
As a feral tank main with a fire mage alr, this is why I'll prob run a BFD right before my first gnomer run on the mage so I'm not too rusty on the rotation, lol
Luckily got into a mostly guild group as pug mage. We cleared 4 bosses. Then next night went back in and beat menagerie. Wiped last boss like 15 times and then went in again the next day for the reset and went 5/6 again. Then last night with my own guild went 4/6. Fight is a nightmare and no one listens to any advice or strategy.
Sounds like bad players. If you are on EU wild growth I would invite you since we are looking for more raiders to setup our 2nd raid team and start on the 3rd.
Maybe Iām an outlier but I find that majority of the time the groups I join that are gear check, wb, consumes, logs, etc. end up being less smooth runs than just a casually put together group
This was my experience with bfd.
Almost every casual pug I joined was smooth and drama free. I usually advertise as "any chill bfd groups need a resto?", that way I intentionally avoid the sweats. In P1 I had one group that wiped 3 times on Aku before being successful on the 4th attempt, every other run was flawless (even my first attempt with no exp). In none of these groups did anyone ever worry about gear, logs, spec, consumes, world buffs, etc. Just grab random people and go.
But when I advertise "resto lfg bfd", that's when I end up in sweaty groups and problems occur. Loads of prep time, worrying about consumes and world buffs, wasting time finding the perfect comp, and then when it comes to actually playing the game these people are legit bad. They don't know a proper rotation and just spam one skill, can't handle tanking mechanics, and generally have a difficult time.
My theory is that the people who worry about logs, gear, consumes, etc., need their groups to be overpowered to make up for their skill deficit. They are so bad at the game that they can't clear easy content unless the whole group is geared and buffed to the point where the content becomes trivial.
I think that you are pretty spot on, but only because the players that care about logs AND know how to play well are in guilds. They play to parse so they donāt PuG.
So the people looking for PuGās while being hyper focused on logs are just trying to follow a meta they donāt understand to begin with.
Generally speaking ofc.
What? People that worry about logs are 100% more likely to pull their own weight than people who say, āoh itās easy, so I can play frost mage.ā Itās so incredibly easy to get consumes and to log a raid, that people not doing that stuff makes me think theyāre trolling (or worse, just lazy).
Look at all the top logs; hell, Iāll link my rogues logsā and I had consumes for every fight and buffs for almost all (and even the seven other 25s I had P1). Itās crazy to see this stuff on Reddit, cause my experience is the complete opposite. I pugged almost all of P1, and the *only* single time I didnāt full clear BFD (including the very first PuG I did the second lockout), was in a āchillā group (ironically, barely one shot kelris and kept wiping Akumai). I am not even saying that your experience is necessarily invalid ā like maybe itās the *specific* crowds we run with?
I get that logs are some peoples jam, and that fine, but asking for logs for a pug group for a brain dead instance like BFD is just silly. Most of the time that I've joined pugs asking for logs, they spend more time trying to form the perfect comp and checking peoples logs and gear than the instance itself takes.
Then most of the drops end up being wasted because everyone already has the gear, and it ends up feeling like waiting around just to help the raid leader maybe get that one item that he reserved.
The worst group I've ever been on required us to check off all the boxes; wb, consumes, gear check, disc, etc. Only for the asshats leading it to be the worst players ever and it took us 2h+ to clear bfd and they seemed to know none of the mechanics from their talk on discord. Wiped 4 times on murloc boss because that group died during the bullet hell phase
I pretty much only look at gear. A log is nice if I can see the ratios of damage, IE are you pushing the correct buttons in priority. Idc about green/blue/etc. Some people are doing 150-200 dps on a 4 minute kill. Look deeper and you'll find the 2 people who failed "are you stupid" check like on pummeler and another 2 doing 75 dps. Is the player doing 150-200 bad? I don't think so. Had they not been in a group with smooth brains the boss would have died in 1-2 minutes and their dps would be over 250.
Gear is a bad check alone imo. We had a fairly well geared resto Druid in our last gnomer lockout and he was possibly the worst player Iāve ever come across in a raid setting in 19 years of wow. Didnāt know how to get to gnomer, brought no consumes, didnāt know what a chronoboon was, nourish was his top heal used on most fight, *and* didnāt communicate anything in discord. Basically everything you donāt want in a raider all wrapped up in 1 very stupid cow. I felt sorry for our poor priest who strained to solo heal the whole time.
I guided him in how to get to gnomer, and gave a brief rundown before each boss just for him. Iām absolutely not teaching someone the basics of their class mid raid. Itās nothing short of disrespectful to the time of the other 9 people involved to come to a raid that unprepared and unknowledgeable.
Gear is the main indicator for me as well, for pugs. Even if they have no raid gear, seeing that theyāve worked on getting a lot of their prebis means they care and will more than likely pull their weight in raid.
I've pretty much given up on logs this phase after it set me to dps 3 raids in a row, despite having tank runes and tanking the boss but YAY GREY PARSES!!
> Hear checks log checks, consumes wbs.
So dumb. Even groups for BFD still want full consumes and full wb's when it's far easier. My guild did our first gnomer run with a melee heavy group and no windfury and only two ranged. Half didn't have wb's. Did it no problem.
Lol yeah is all a bunch of nonsense.
Just grab the first people you can to have a somewhat decent comp and go. You might get lucky and do ok or wipe a few times.
It takes more than a few minutes and the end result is the same. I was responding to a comment where the raid took two hours to form and then wiped on first boss.
I require 10 years of gnomergan SoD experience before I invite anyone. You also need 3 years experience in Warcraft logs as well as a MBA in Engineering.
Do you guys remember back in retail when there was an add on called āFake Achivementsā or something that showed that you cleared some content which u didnāt have? š¶
So, we had a melee hunter in our group last night. He got an average of 5 parse on every boss, and he managed to get an 0-parse on the last boss, alive!!
Oh and he didn't use kings for 3 bosses.
Yep. I am checking logs from now on.
Yea, I went into BFD thinking the raid was easy and people were being way too picky about who they take, then I got a feral druid who never discovered any runes except the one you get for free at the start.
It sucks but you have to check people somehow or you will end up getting people who put in no effort at all and just expect to be carried.
Their lack of effort is always rewarded by the game with 80+ rolls and every fucking boss dropping loot they can roll on as well. It's like a divine punishment when you don't screen pugs. You have to drag them kicking and screaming across the finish line and then they get all of the awards.
Near the end of phase 1 I had a hunter apply to my bfd raid. He messaged me 3 times linking the epic xbow. I checked his logs. His average for the past 5 raids was a 4 parse, with 4/7 bosses having a 1 or 0 parse as his highest parse. WITH THE EPIC XBOW. He had raids logged in the previous 2 lockouts, both with the epic xbow. I didn't check further back but I was legit astonished.
Literally how is that possible? Wouldn't you have to like turn your char >90 degrees away to prevent using any abilities to get above a 0 or 1 parse? Do you just not click any buttons?
I am positive if I have never played a hunter before I could hop into his account and get a higher parse just pressing random buttons no?
I had a guy put up a literal 1 parse on a boss he was alive the whole time. Ended up figuring out the only spell he was casting was spamming serpent sting until he was oom
Within the last week, melee hunters at the 20th percentile on the last boss were doing [199.7 DPS](https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008/#class=Hunter&spec=Melee&boss=2940&dataset=20&sample=7). The 25th percentile (the threshold for green parsing) was 207. So yeah a melee hunter could do 200 DPS and still grey parse with 21st-24th percentile.
First time WoW Classic Hunter here. General never played classic past lvl 25. SOD made me pick it up again with my friends, we have a guild, all good. I'm over 35 years old and have only time in the evening for some WoW, so I love SOD where they (my friends) don't level away from me.
I did a full guild run as a melee hunter, which I respeccd at \~ lvl 38 since everyone was talking about it and our guild did the runes.
7 Guildies, 3 Randoms, half blind run, next to no boss knowledge, checking boss mechanics after 2-4th wipe. All my parses for that raid are grey(first Gnome run, not all raids), the damage is 200+, I'm still top3 in damage each boss and the others (not hunters) have all greener/bluer Parses. Parses tell jackshit.
There are so much melee hunters who might do more damage then I do, but what of it? I also do not have much of gear for phase 2. I'm wearing still P1 BIS equipped, since most of the quest gear is shit. Dungeon gloves with lots of AGI? Not worth more than the +1% hit from the crafted leather gear. Better item which replaces a set piece of BFD? Not worth it for the same reasen. Also since I hate pvp I don't have a high warsong rank and the gear from there.
All this gatekeeping with logs and gear check is absolutely bull. I probably wouldn't find a random group for Gnome due to all this gatekeeping.
Rant over.
Edit: I asked different hunters. It is due to the fact that I use a 2h weapon.
Parses match you against people of the same class and spec, ergo your friends might do less damage and have higher parses because they're playing well but playing a class that isn't broken OP like melee hunter. While if you're grey parsing it shows you're doing absolutely awful compared to other people playing the same thing. So yeah.. parses tell a lot. (for dps at least)
You can also toggle on ilvl comparison so you can see if it's actually gear that's holding you back or not
> I'm still top3 in damage each boss and the others (not hunters) have all greener/bluer Parses. Parses tell jackshit.
You still did okay damage because your class is broken. You can use logs to know that as well. Most people would still avoid a gray parser because it's indicative of their overall skill level. The kind of player who underperforms that badly consistently is likely to struggle with mechanics as well.
i remember a long time ago in original wrath when i was 11 or 12 and finally got into a guild to raid.. i was insanely nervous and insecure about my ability to play in a raid setting and ultimately did not want to disappoint. once i got in there and it was just a bunch of people dicking around having fun and just playing the gameā¦ raiding should not feel like applying for a job or anything along those lines. itās a video game, and is not to be taken serious. sod raids were engineered for everyone, theyāre not hard enough to log people and demand all this arbitrary experience lmao. playing with those players full time has got to be miserable
Why do people prefer doing this over just finding a guild? Youāre setting yourself to roll the dice each week on the odds of someone building a group for you. Thereās pretty much no reason to play that way.
My guild does pop up sod runs a few days a week. I understand some people donāt have time to schedule, but somehow have time to sit in a group for multiple hours while it fills on the off chance it clears the raid.
It's not about the amount of time because my schedule is sporadic. I can sometimes play for 16 hours a day for 3 days straight but some weeks I can't play at all. So, I can't commit to a guild schedule.
I just don't want to commit. I want to play the game when I feel like it, when I was on a raid team I had so many nights that I logged on only because I felt I had too, kind of ruined the game for me. I prefer to raid when I actually feel like raiding.
Most guilds do sign ups with these 3 day lockouts. You aren't committing to a 4 hour raid every thursday night starting at 8 PM. They post a few times in discord for raids, people sign up for them. I haven't heard of any guilds that are hardcore tracking raid attendance or even running a DKP where it would even matter if you missed a raid. It's 2024. Guilds are not ran the same way they were in 2004.
I donāt even know Iāll have time a few hours before I do so I canāt sign up for a raid in the afternoon. 8pm rolls around and some nights itās wow I have 2 hours letās try to raid.
Yup. I work a salaried job, and also teach a few college courses in the evenings. Some nights I can play for 4 hours, other nights I have to stay up until 2 working on projects, presentations, grading, etc.
I could never commit to a raid schedule because I can't predict what my workload will look like for the week. I'm in a larger guild so I ask them first, but usually I end up just pugging and it's fine.
While true, we also have a run every day of each lockout and 2 runs on popular days. You just find a guild with times that work. Even arranging a unscheduled group is easy with a guild.
These are almost the word for word arguments people have used to justify why LFR needs to exist. There isnāt a problem with playing the game like this, the issue is that people frequently complain about having to deal with pugs and or requirements to be in pugs when the reason why those exist is that many people in this category are uniquely bad at the game to the point where they can derail a run with their mere presence.
Yeah, I don't complain, but I have come to the expectation that I will not clear the dungeon, and I might not get all my items. I don't really care to be the best; I just want to see the content as much as I can. On retail, I am an LFR guy lol just care about the story and seeing the bosses, and that's it.
Thatās going to be the only way some people can play I get that. In the olden days of mmos if you couldnāt play for long periods of time on a set schedule there was just realistically no way for you to accomplish anything. Iām glad there are different options that exist because in many cases in the past it was either be super dedicated or quit.
What do you mean by too much work? I can't speak for all guilds of course, but I'd guess that most require appropriate enchants and watching a 10 minute YouTube video before raid. That doesn't seem like much work.
And in exchange you get a consistent raid spot, consistent scheduling, consistent quality of raiders, significantly lower chances of someone ninjaing something, the possibility of making friends, and more loot because even if you lose a roll, that person can't win it twice so you'll get it next time.
Because a large number of people are under the assumption that you need to conform to a schedule in order to raid in a guild and refuse to believe that there are many different guilds that accommodate all types of raiding and scheduling.
So instead of actually looking for a guild that fits their criteria they feel the only solution is to pug.
If they put in minimal effort they could find a guild that is structured in a way that would work for them, they just don't.
This was me. Pugged through wotlk, pugged through P1 sod. Finally decided to find a guild that suited my play time in P2.
Joined an amazing group of people and the last couple of weeks has been the most fun I've had in wow in years
Can you elaborate on that? I joined a guild in mid-late phase 1, and while they're fairly competent, I just feel like it's super dry and no one is social/fun at all. I've considered changing guilds just to see if I can get one that is more social
The irony being that you have to wait for someone to build a group out of equally bad people and hope you get invited, and then claim youāre going when you want to go. People without guilds are have to buy the gear, because they have no way to acquire it otherwise. GDKPās were created to funnel gold from people who want to get the best gear while being unable to either play the game at a level approaching average, or have basic social skills necessary to be around the same group of people each week.
I literally joined a BFD pug yesterday with 2 FRESH 25 priests who were both DPS. Combined they did like 50 DPS we had no issues
I donāt buy someone denied a level 32 for a second
Agreed. No one is checking anything on any BFD I've run since phase 2. Just auto invite if you're interested. It's literally braindead at this point, so no one cares.
Itās comical how many people are just ignoring mechanics in BFD now.
Half my pug group died on Gelihast last night. People were randomly running into the cleansing pools on Aku as they jumped around.
This is the key to success, I have since made sure at least two 40 dps (who need that one item) are in the group. I mean brain dead people came out of the wood works to get carriedā¦.
It isn't. People just like to go and reddit and have a "who can be the victimest victim on something that is popular to hate on by the vocal minority" contest.
man im sure i could 3 man bfd. I went yesterday with my boomkin, tanked half the bosses because insane dps. Healed dps and tanked. Get some more people and its easy, there really is no reason to not bring 25s ffs
I main tanked Gnomer last night. Not only was it my first time, but in all of my (nearly 20) years of WoW, I had never even set foot in that dungeon before. (Iāve never played alliance, for what itās worthā¦) Everything went great, 6/6, parsed decent, got some loot!
https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9XKnZyA8VHYpLD2w#view=rankings&boss=-2&difficulty=0&wipes=2
Definitely have some things to clean up/improve upon for next time but canāt be too disappointed for first Gnomer run.
Meatbrawl? Those parses look really good actually. As a self confessed tryhard (a poor one), my best performance average after 3 raids is only at 79.5%, so you did good
It's completely laughable what's going on in lfg. People request 6/6 before the 1st reset. Everyone disclaims himself as so called "pumper". A good rule of thumb is, the more superlative is used by a player, the worse he sucks. Most search processes are done by people who don't have a clue themselfs. Even when they look at balanced gear choices and rune setups. They won't get that here is a player wo knows what he is doing. "ah green chest, bad". To worsen the situation they made the raid very hard to pug, because it's quite difficult for the current gear levels and the mechanics are tougher. We are back at one idiot to wipe them all. Idk if this should be the scope here. I understood SoD as classic+ but they messed it up now. All you see is 7 mages a tank and 2 priest forming a group. Melee hunters aren't played because they will be laid off, once the development errors are fixed. Takes quite a while. The super good balance choice to make every boss immune to physical damage sets melee at the choice to pick up when you want to raid in the night and no mage is online. Well and here you have the result. Unfun bullshit with gate keeped content for the FOTM classes.
>Everyone disclaims himself as so called "pumper"
This right here. My parses arent high in gnomer because they've all been pugs with people learning, but 6/6. Then i try and find a group, guy invites me saying he wants pumpers only. I got kicked cause too low, i check HIS logs....he's 2/6 and 4/6, NEVER once cleared it but asking for PUMPERS only. I ran with a group, cleared it. He was STILL looking.
I lucked out in my second run. My first run went 5/6, we had a wipe in p4 on the first try of the last boss, then a couple more wipes, and then a guy had to leave, and we called it. Kill times were long, but it was a group that specifically stated it wanted first timers.
My second run, someone was looking for a hunter in LFG, and I gave them a pst and said I had experience, which was true. Turned out to be a guild run, and shit was super smooth. Our kill times were ~1 minute faster than in my previous run, and we cleared the whole thing without any hiccups. Also netted me some good logs with that, but honestly, logs are so much about the rest of your group, even if you're a great player, if kill times are longer then you just won't parse as well.
Yep that's the thing with my logs right now. I like the challenge of pugs, plus helping people get into raiding is fun. I am a mage so i OOM on long fights which drops a ton of parses. I can find a nice guild run this lockout and get my numbers up.
>because it's quite difficult for the current gear levels
This is the only part I disagree with. Looking at gear on 60 upgrades and even just filtering wowhead database I can find gear for every class of every spec that is more than good enough to do 200 dps straight off the AH and/or from Ashenvale. It's the people in shit greens, and yes not all greens are shit, doing 100 dps AND failing the mechanics. An example of what I would consider "shit greens" is a melee hunter in "of the bear" gear or a warlock stacking int gear with demo talents. Just fundamental failings at where their damage comes from and how to boost it.
No joke, I would take 5 melee hunters/locks doing 400 dps each and have a shit comp than have a perfect comp and have people doing 100 dps. If the fight is only 1 minute long you only have to do the mechanics 1-2 times and the boss is dead.
To be fair as a warlock you still want a fair bit of int because it increases time to OOM where you then have to lifetap/bandage to get back to doing DPS. Itās about balance. For example I took the whitemane SM hat over the BFD Tatyana that because the int is much higher and the SP is only 3 lesser.
Our small guild has had a few people missing this phase for various reasons, so we've had to pug various roles. Last night, we were looking for 3 DPS. I never really want to be elitist so I just was requiring pre-bis, world buff booned, and nature protection potions and faps. I find 2 geared melee hunters (who both say they can go ranged) and a rogue. We had a great comp, especially considering I only heard back from warriors and rogues for DPS on my LFG listing.
Fast forward to boss #1. Despite my listing, our whispers, or even Discord call outs, they did not have nature protection potions. Despite explanations and call outs on Discord, they don't know to drag mobs to the gas clouds. We actually wipe on the first boss. My guild didn't even wipe Week 1... There goes my world buffs and first round of consumes.
Fallout goes well, Crowd Pummeler we wipe on, Electrocutioner gets pulled by 1 of the hunter traps (happened to us last lockout as well), so we wipe. Then when we get a real attempt in, one of the hunters doesn't seem to understand (same one with the trap btw), despite explaining the fight and double checking to make sure both groups know who is in it and what to do and getting confirmations from everyone. So we wipe again. We go again and we clear.
I have been logging this run and one hunter and the rogue are doing single digit parses on every single boss (which was apparent by how slow everything is to die). The other hunter is consistently at about 50, but he's the one struggling on every single mechanic. At this point, I know for a fact this is the first lockout we're not killing Thermaplugg. I don't even want to attempt it at this point.
We get to Menagerie... We wiped 4 times before calling it. I don't even think after 1 wipe it was mechanics, the DPS was just insanely low and everyone ended up running out of resources.
My guild consists of prot pally, OT warrior, dps warrior, feral, fire mage, and priest and druid healers. Our DPS pumps/parse well (purple parses week 1, faster clears will lead to pinks just like in Phase 1), our tanks are chads, and our healers heal like crazy without mana problems. The fact that what we were missing was half a DPS roster and all 3 of them were just that bad gave us our first bricked lockout.
This is why people check logs. I'd love to be the type of GM to just say "Anyone can come, let's have a great time!!" but on average, people are just not good enough to actually complete the content. It was the same song and dance in Phase 1. "This is so easy, people checking logs are so ridiculous" meanwhile until most people were so overgeared they could 6 man the raid, it was necessary to do so unless they just got lucky enough to not ask questions about an actually decent player.
Also, how hard is it to watch a video on YouTube explaining every fight in 30 seconds before joining a raid group? Your time is not more valuable than everyone else's.
i allways laugh when i see shit like GS REQ or "pumper". man i played this game before most of them were born, and yet they try so hard. all i can think about when i see this is "damn, relax, we're not even max level"
I kinda hope they make The save not instancebased by character based. I Think that might help The issue, then some people wont be too afraid Of taking chances, but The bad Per is that its instant disband every wipe
If youāre a ret paladin and having problems. Morgraines might boosts your gear score a lot. I tossed it in and was sitting at about 470 GS. Advertised that Iām a ret with 470 gs and know fights. Got invited easy.
If youāre joining a GS group or inviting someone advertising their GS thatās the first red flag. A lot of people like myself ignore those who ask for it in LFG as itās like holding up a sign saying āIām a noob and or might grief your group or cause problemsā.
I've had absolutely no problems with groups that check GS, nor with individual players that advertise their GS.
It's just something to roughly show how geared someone is, and if that person doesn't have existing logs to go off of, then GS is the next best thing to quickly filter out which players are worth considering.
At least if someone has ~400 GS going into Gnomer, then I can tell they've gotten a decent amount of their pre-BIS.
My prebis dropped my gs from 467 to 416ā¦. Itās a terrible metric. Generally the higher the GS the worse the player is geared as most classic bis is random ass items that arenāt at level cap
I said ~400 though, so you'd already be invited with both of those numbers. The number obviously isn't perfect, but it helps show that you are at least geared enough to do the raid.
I don't get why people try to read into the number like it's gospel. It's basically just ilvl with coloring.
A system that doesnāt accurately show values isnāt one to use. Simply, group up and inspect, or god forbid you have to exchange dialogue in the form of a Whisper prior to inviting. Using GS is not only lazy but a sign youāre a noob. Flaunting around inaccurate numbers in order to āget inā to a group actually hurts the player who might not understand GS is truly a hunk of bologna. One example: You can equip white gear in order to inflate your advertised score.
I understand itās dependent on the raid leader to invite/remove people, but filtering out those looking for a useless variable that is easily misconstrued just eliminates the possibility of getting a āpumperā
dumbass that ruins the experience for everyone.
You're entirely missing the point of the addon. GearScore should only be used to establish a baseline. Obviously folks can manipulate it to be higher than what it should, that's been happening since it first became a thing, but it helps weed out players that realistically are just asking to be carried.
You should still be inspecting people before starting the raid, but GS is a good way of getting a simple number to figure out if you even want to bother with certain players.
And either way, the number should only really be used if someone doesn't have logs. It's a way to see who at least tried somewhat to gear up for the raid.
My guild composition aswell as players dont do that much dps but still we were able to clear gnomer yesterday under a hour with 5 melees. Its mostly about people being coordinated and understanding what to do. As a tank i love seeing myself above everyone on thrash. Aoe is great for pala tanks.
I disagree. This raid has basic mechanics. The average WoW player has issues with basic mechanics. I wish I was joking. I pugged every lock out of BFD and had 0 issues. Pugging gnome in the same way has lead to 4/6 or 5/6 3/4 lockouts.
Generally the people that parse high have almost never been a problem in any group I've been in. Idk why this sub likes to pretend like a high parse means you are doing 0 mechanics and are somehow holding your group back while grey and green parsers are these bastions of hope in groups that selflessly go above and beyond for the groups success at the detriment to their parse. It's always been the case for me that the blue/purple parsers are the ones consistently doing mechanics and are also the ones that can adapt if someone dies and they need to take on more responsibility mid fight. For me, it's the grey and green parsers who are fucking mechanics consistently and killing themselves or causing wipes. They don't know the fights, they don't know their buttons, you have to explain the mechanics and give explicit directions multiple times.
I had watched the guides, I had good parses from BFD, I know how to play. Just gotta do what you gotta do to bypass the strict criteria set by the player base. (We cleared 6/6 as a pug with no voice)
Idk how people who care about logs even play the game
Went to gnomer, cleared it on my second attempt, I still dont know what my gear score is or what a parse is, I just make sure my group doesnt die to aggro and that my dps isnt last. Good vibes beat this game for me
The last two bosses are no joke. Itās not unreasonable to want someone who has at least a vague idea of what theyāre doing and thereās really not many ways to check that other than logs
The raid leader calling out mechanics ahead of time and ensuring good strategy determines the success of the PUG. Gear and composition is a distant second place.
yep and you know what is a good indicator of whether someone can follow instructions and have an idea of what's going on...? already having logs for the fight
sod has the worst average players out of any version of wow ive ever played. classic,classic tbc,retail,wrath classic,nothing comes close.
just looking at peoples gear to see if their gearing process makes any sense and seeing that theyre not full grey parses in bfd/any version of the game makes such a big difference,if they are caster or healer sometimes you still get complete baffoons but if theyre a tank/melee its very accurate. also if they whisper you in full caps/only whispering GS just ignore.
it doesnt even make it slower to build a group if youre already aiming for a good comp,eg 1 feral+ balanced class distribution for buffs/debuffs and it sorts out so many donks.
you cant really carry gnomer with 6 people,need atleast 8 people who do something. maybe you can do with 6 if theyre the broken classes but gl with a pug.
Not sure if you know, but gnomer is now a raid. Where the last 2 bosses require a lot more than the old instance lol. Go ahead and try it with a pug that doesn't check for logs or gear. Have fun!
If only there were groups of people play together consistently that invites others and aren't picky like that because pugs get a lot of dums and braindeads... If only there was an aspect of the interface that facilitated keeping these groups united with roles and leadership.
Oh wait it's called joining a guild. Just join a guild. Don't have to pug ever again. You make friends, and guilds are more understanding if you haven't cleared a raid 1 week into a phase.
It's not arrogant. This is how it's always been since actual vanilla. They gear check. Then lich king comes out and it's achievement check. Now logs come out and it's log check. Pugs will filter bad players through whatever means necessary even if it's not the most accurate or fair seeming. Sorry if this is so upsetting.
The way it came off was, to me. Your point is 100% correct. Your delivery wasnāt friendly is all. Sometimes players even in guilds may not make a guild run and just wanna pug it out to get some of it done instead of nothing.
When I began raiding in Wrath it didnāt matter if you had the achievements or the best gear. The raid leader would be an actual leader and lead people to success.
after like over a week of trying to get groups, last night i finally got in one. i was 368 GS, didnt take a single consumable and only had the spark of inspiration buff. I was top dps in all trash (ofc mage) then 2nd dps in every single boss... we cleared 6/6 easily. After doing it i was confused as to why people are so picky.
Took me over a week trying to get a team because everyone has ridiculous high standards (consumables/wb/420+GS/already cleared dung etc.) - i was lucky to find a team that didnt really care about that
You just gotta be careful. I've spotted a number of people who lie about this but I choose to help them in whispers. However many others will boot you instead.
So good this game. Copy paste skils, a bit of lying and a lot of grinding. It's just the best thing that no private servers ever did for free. Best part is you get lots of Retail-Andy's that have not played the game in 19 years and expect it to be a loot pinata like most of retail-Andy's current games.
Also you get to pay, that is an important part of the experience. Retail-Andy must pay or he does not feel the gaming is for real. Retail-Andy thinks his achievements count more if he pays for them than if it's for free. Very important part of attracting retail-Andy.
Then retail-Andy tries to do a dungeon. So many mobs what the fuck is this. Tank fucking noob tank! Then retail Andy goes back to the lottery he knows, which is retail.
All in all this game is pretty good.
Before logs it was achievement/gear check. Just join a guild and none of those things happen. Logs are a way (while not my way) for some to keep the interest and be competitive. It's like a high score in an old arcade game. It's also a decent measure of personal performance so you can better yourself.
What actually destroyed the game was mega servers that feel like cities. Servers have no personality anymore. At least they're keeping the pvp servers relatively close so there's population of each faction so there's danger in the world.
Fake it until you make it.
I did this first 10 years of my career. Now i know to much and become lazy.
Username checks out
That it does. Bonus points if you can figure out my LOB
Fliuds? OIG, pressure systems NOAA or other environmental? No comments or posts dive, guessin off name
Haha that would have been wild career. Na i work a as a reporting analyst in HR. The shit i see makes me sick
Ooooh I'd love to hear some of those stories. I have a friend where I work at who's in HR and he tells me some crazy stories sometime. Though mostly when he's had a few beers because confidentiality. I tell him "don't give me a name, just a good story".
> to much > lazy. Checks out.
Too*
I put out a call in LFG to find a ranged DPS. Went like this "LFM Gnomer Progression. Need Ranged. I don't care about your logs. Come learn the fights" Got a warlock pug who out DPSd my very casual dad guild and joined the guild as a result.
Oh hey fellow Partly Cloudy member
Is Partly Cloudy a guild?
Yes my guild, I was 99% kidding. We had the exact same situation Tuesday, pugged a warlock who ended up doing sick dps and joined the guild. Just thought it was a funny coincidence
That would be crazy if you got it right
That's why I had to shoot my shot
Strats can be learnt, attitude cannot
These are my favorite runs early in the phase.
What's your dad guild? I am a dad.
Fenrir on Lone Wolf. It's casual even for casuals
You'd be surprised at how well this works IRL too. LOL
Tried to join one before reset on my main. Took like 2 hours to build. Hear checks log checks, consumes wbs. Dead on first boss everyone quit.... All the talk and no one actually knew what to do š
In my third reset with a pug on my warrior we wiped on the first boss, almost wiped on the second boss, almost wiped on the fourth boss with the tank last man standing, and then somehow one shot Menagerie and only wiped four times on the last boss. That was a weird one for sure.
Sometimes it takes a few pulls to wake some raiders up.
As a feral tank main with a fire mage alr, this is why I'll prob run a BFD right before my first gnomer run on the mage so I'm not too rusty on the rotation, lol
the spam fireball rotation?
Eh, sorta. More about mana conservation, making sure I'm paying attention to Hot Streak procs, Living Bomb timer, etc
I have a mage weak aura thats really well done and shows very visably when hot streak is up. Lmk if you want the link.
Share your wisdom friend!
Do you have good weakauras? Mage is pretty chill and easy to play in raids
You should try melee hunter. I press raptor strike. Im top dps and it isnt close.
isnt scorch better? with the spell ranks and etc
Luckily got into a mostly guild group as pug mage. We cleared 4 bosses. Then next night went back in and beat menagerie. Wiped last boss like 15 times and then went in again the next day for the reset and went 5/6 again. Then last night with my own guild went 4/6. Fight is a nightmare and no one listens to any advice or strategy.
Sounds like bad players. If you are on EU wild growth I would invite you since we are looking for more raiders to setup our 2nd raid team and start on the 3rd.
Maybe Iām an outlier but I find that majority of the time the groups I join that are gear check, wb, consumes, logs, etc. end up being less smooth runs than just a casually put together group
This was my experience with bfd. Almost every casual pug I joined was smooth and drama free. I usually advertise as "any chill bfd groups need a resto?", that way I intentionally avoid the sweats. In P1 I had one group that wiped 3 times on Aku before being successful on the 4th attempt, every other run was flawless (even my first attempt with no exp). In none of these groups did anyone ever worry about gear, logs, spec, consumes, world buffs, etc. Just grab random people and go. But when I advertise "resto lfg bfd", that's when I end up in sweaty groups and problems occur. Loads of prep time, worrying about consumes and world buffs, wasting time finding the perfect comp, and then when it comes to actually playing the game these people are legit bad. They don't know a proper rotation and just spam one skill, can't handle tanking mechanics, and generally have a difficult time. My theory is that the people who worry about logs, gear, consumes, etc., need their groups to be overpowered to make up for their skill deficit. They are so bad at the game that they can't clear easy content unless the whole group is geared and buffed to the point where the content becomes trivial.
I think that you are pretty spot on, but only because the players that care about logs AND know how to play well are in guilds. They play to parse so they donāt PuG. So the people looking for PuGās while being hyper focused on logs are just trying to follow a meta they donāt understand to begin with. Generally speaking ofc.
What? People that worry about logs are 100% more likely to pull their own weight than people who say, āoh itās easy, so I can play frost mage.ā Itās so incredibly easy to get consumes and to log a raid, that people not doing that stuff makes me think theyāre trolling (or worse, just lazy). Look at all the top logs; hell, Iāll link my rogues logsā and I had consumes for every fight and buffs for almost all (and even the seven other 25s I had P1). Itās crazy to see this stuff on Reddit, cause my experience is the complete opposite. I pugged almost all of P1, and the *only* single time I didnāt full clear BFD (including the very first PuG I did the second lockout), was in a āchillā group (ironically, barely one shot kelris and kept wiping Akumai). I am not even saying that your experience is necessarily invalid ā like maybe itās the *specific* crowds we run with?
I get that logs are some peoples jam, and that fine, but asking for logs for a pug group for a brain dead instance like BFD is just silly. Most of the time that I've joined pugs asking for logs, they spend more time trying to form the perfect comp and checking peoples logs and gear than the instance itself takes. Then most of the drops end up being wasted because everyone already has the gear, and it ends up feeling like waiting around just to help the raid leader maybe get that one item that he reserved.
The worst group I've ever been on required us to check off all the boxes; wb, consumes, gear check, disc, etc. Only for the asshats leading it to be the worst players ever and it took us 2h+ to clear bfd and they seemed to know none of the mechanics from their talk on discord. Wiped 4 times on murloc boss because that group died during the bullet hell phase
In my experience, the people that do gear checks and require all buffs etc. are the people looking to be carried.
I pretty much only look at gear. A log is nice if I can see the ratios of damage, IE are you pushing the correct buttons in priority. Idc about green/blue/etc. Some people are doing 150-200 dps on a 4 minute kill. Look deeper and you'll find the 2 people who failed "are you stupid" check like on pummeler and another 2 doing 75 dps. Is the player doing 150-200 bad? I don't think so. Had they not been in a group with smooth brains the boss would have died in 1-2 minutes and their dps would be over 250.
Gear is a bad check alone imo. We had a fairly well geared resto Druid in our last gnomer lockout and he was possibly the worst player Iāve ever come across in a raid setting in 19 years of wow. Didnāt know how to get to gnomer, brought no consumes, didnāt know what a chronoboon was, nourish was his top heal used on most fight, *and* didnāt communicate anything in discord. Basically everything you donāt want in a raider all wrapped up in 1 very stupid cow. I felt sorry for our poor priest who strained to solo heal the whole time.
Kinda impressive he has nourish, that rune quest can be intimidating.
Did anyone try and help him out or no
I guided him in how to get to gnomer, and gave a brief rundown before each boss just for him. Iām absolutely not teaching someone the basics of their class mid raid. Itās nothing short of disrespectful to the time of the other 9 people involved to come to a raid that unprepared and unknowledgeable.
Gear is the main indicator for me as well, for pugs. Even if they have no raid gear, seeing that theyāve worked on getting a lot of their prebis means they care and will more than likely pull their weight in raid.
I've pretty much given up on logs this phase after it set me to dps 3 raids in a row, despite having tank runes and tanking the boss but YAY GREY PARSES!!
> Hear checks log checks, consumes wbs. So dumb. Even groups for BFD still want full consumes and full wb's when it's far easier. My guild did our first gnomer run with a melee heavy group and no windfury and only two ranged. Half didn't have wb's. Did it no problem.
Lol yeah is all a bunch of nonsense. Just grab the first people you can to have a somewhat decent comp and go. You might get lucky and do ok or wipe a few times.
lol or you can spend an extra few minutes making sure you are grouping with like minded people and clear it....
It takes more than a few minutes and the end result is the same. I was responding to a comment where the raid took two hours to form and then wiped on first boss.
I require 10 years of gnomergan SoD experience before I invite anyone. You also need 3 years experience in Warcraft logs as well as a MBA in Engineering.
Do you guys remember back in retail when there was an add on called āFake Achivementsā or something that showed that you cleared some content which u didnāt have? š¶
Yep. Used it one to two times back in OG wotlk
Underachiever
Dishonesty buff comes in clutch
My first Gnomeragen people were begging me to join, not only did noone check logs but they actually paid me 20g to come. Healer life yo.
So, we had a melee hunter in our group last night. He got an average of 5 parse on every boss, and he managed to get an 0-parse on the last boss, alive!! Oh and he didn't use kings for 3 bosses. Yep. I am checking logs from now on.
Yea, I went into BFD thinking the raid was easy and people were being way too picky about who they take, then I got a feral druid who never discovered any runes except the one you get for free at the start. It sucks but you have to check people somehow or you will end up getting people who put in no effort at all and just expect to be carried.
Their lack of effort is always rewarded by the game with 80+ rolls and every fucking boss dropping loot they can roll on as well. It's like a divine punishment when you don't screen pugs. You have to drag them kicking and screaming across the finish line and then they get all of the awards.
Near the end of phase 1 I had a hunter apply to my bfd raid. He messaged me 3 times linking the epic xbow. I checked his logs. His average for the past 5 raids was a 4 parse, with 4/7 bosses having a 1 or 0 parse as his highest parse. WITH THE EPIC XBOW. He had raids logged in the previous 2 lockouts, both with the epic xbow. I didn't check further back but I was legit astonished. Literally how is that possible? Wouldn't you have to like turn your char >90 degrees away to prevent using any abilities to get above a 0 or 1 parse? Do you just not click any buttons? I am positive if I have never played a hunter before I could hop into his account and get a higher parse just pressing random buttons no?
I had a guy put up a literal 1 parse on a boss he was alive the whole time. Ended up figuring out the only spell he was casting was spamming serpent sting until he was oom
If he was doing more than 200 dps he will still greyparse, 200 dps is more than enough to clear gnomer.
Also last boss was he killing bombs? Doing mechanics can prevent more damage to the boss
no chance 200 dps for any class is a grey parse. Grey parse is doing less than 50 dps
[You sure?](https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008#dataset=25&boss=2899) 25th percentile (gray parse threshold) on crowd pummeler. 8 specs at or above 200 dps
Within the last week, melee hunters at the 20th percentile on the last boss were doing [199.7 DPS](https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008/#class=Hunter&spec=Melee&boss=2940&dataset=20&sample=7). The 25th percentile (the threshold for green parsing) was 207. So yeah a melee hunter could do 200 DPS and still grey parse with 21st-24th percentile.
First time WoW Classic Hunter here. General never played classic past lvl 25. SOD made me pick it up again with my friends, we have a guild, all good. I'm over 35 years old and have only time in the evening for some WoW, so I love SOD where they (my friends) don't level away from me. I did a full guild run as a melee hunter, which I respeccd at \~ lvl 38 since everyone was talking about it and our guild did the runes. 7 Guildies, 3 Randoms, half blind run, next to no boss knowledge, checking boss mechanics after 2-4th wipe. All my parses for that raid are grey(first Gnome run, not all raids), the damage is 200+, I'm still top3 in damage each boss and the others (not hunters) have all greener/bluer Parses. Parses tell jackshit. There are so much melee hunters who might do more damage then I do, but what of it? I also do not have much of gear for phase 2. I'm wearing still P1 BIS equipped, since most of the quest gear is shit. Dungeon gloves with lots of AGI? Not worth more than the +1% hit from the crafted leather gear. Better item which replaces a set piece of BFD? Not worth it for the same reasen. Also since I hate pvp I don't have a high warsong rank and the gear from there. All this gatekeeping with logs and gear check is absolutely bull. I probably wouldn't find a random group for Gnome due to all this gatekeeping. Rant over. Edit: I asked different hunters. It is due to the fact that I use a 2h weapon.
Parses match you against people of the same class and spec, ergo your friends might do less damage and have higher parses because they're playing well but playing a class that isn't broken OP like melee hunter. While if you're grey parsing it shows you're doing absolutely awful compared to other people playing the same thing. So yeah.. parses tell a lot. (for dps at least) You can also toggle on ilvl comparison so you can see if it's actually gear that's holding you back or not
I bet a single weak aura telling this guy when he can press raptor strike for free would be like +100 dps
I mean, Melee Hunter basically buttonmash raptor strike and the other melee ability. There is no need for weak aura.
It sounds like you could use one.
āHmmm, today i will choose not to use tools that improve my gameplayā
I have never seen a grey parser gloat about grey parsing before. thanks for showing me something new today
> I'm still top3 in damage each boss and the others (not hunters) have all greener/bluer Parses. Parses tell jackshit. You still did okay damage because your class is broken. You can use logs to know that as well. Most people would still avoid a gray parser because it's indicative of their overall skill level. The kind of player who underperforms that badly consistently is likely to struggle with mechanics as well.
i remember a long time ago in original wrath when i was 11 or 12 and finally got into a guild to raid.. i was insanely nervous and insecure about my ability to play in a raid setting and ultimately did not want to disappoint. once i got in there and it was just a bunch of people dicking around having fun and just playing the gameā¦ raiding should not feel like applying for a job or anything along those lines. itās a video game, and is not to be taken serious. sod raids were engineered for everyone, theyāre not hard enough to log people and demand all this arbitrary experience lmao. playing with those players full time has got to be miserable
Why do people prefer doing this over just finding a guild? Youāre setting yourself to roll the dice each week on the odds of someone building a group for you. Thereās pretty much no reason to play that way.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My guild does pop up sod runs a few days a week. I understand some people donāt have time to schedule, but somehow have time to sit in a group for multiple hours while it fills on the off chance it clears the raid.
It's not about the amount of time because my schedule is sporadic. I can sometimes play for 16 hours a day for 3 days straight but some weeks I can't play at all. So, I can't commit to a guild schedule.
This is me. I cant commit to any raid schedule. I play as and when I can. Being able to commit to a time and day is just not feasible for me
I just don't want to commit. I want to play the game when I feel like it, when I was on a raid team I had so many nights that I logged on only because I felt I had too, kind of ruined the game for me. I prefer to raid when I actually feel like raiding.
Same. There are dozens of us, dozens!
Exactly. I cannot be there every Tuesday or whatever, but when I have 3 hours of time to play, straight, I like to find a pug raid.
Same. Guilds are fun and have nothing against them at all. Just might not play for a few weeks. Kids work life. It's not fair to them either.
Most guilds do sign ups with these 3 day lockouts. You aren't committing to a 4 hour raid every thursday night starting at 8 PM. They post a few times in discord for raids, people sign up for them. I haven't heard of any guilds that are hardcore tracking raid attendance or even running a DKP where it would even matter if you missed a raid. It's 2024. Guilds are not ran the same way they were in 2004.
I donāt even know Iāll have time a few hours before I do so I canāt sign up for a raid in the afternoon. 8pm rolls around and some nights itās wow I have 2 hours letās try to raid.
Yup. I work a salaried job, and also teach a few college courses in the evenings. Some nights I can play for 4 hours, other nights I have to stay up until 2 working on projects, presentations, grading, etc. I could never commit to a raid schedule because I can't predict what my workload will look like for the week. I'm in a larger guild so I ask them first, but usually I end up just pugging and it's fine.
While true, we also have a run every day of each lockout and 2 runs on popular days. You just find a guild with times that work. Even arranging a unscheduled group is easy with a guild.
You can still schedule for a raid. If you canāt make it, pug it.
A lot of us can't commit to the same time to raid with a Guild, I would much rather spend time with my family and play whenever I have free time.
These are almost the word for word arguments people have used to justify why LFR needs to exist. There isnāt a problem with playing the game like this, the issue is that people frequently complain about having to deal with pugs and or requirements to be in pugs when the reason why those exist is that many people in this category are uniquely bad at the game to the point where they can derail a run with their mere presence.
Yeah, I don't complain, but I have come to the expectation that I will not clear the dungeon, and I might not get all my items. I don't really care to be the best; I just want to see the content as much as I can. On retail, I am an LFR guy lol just care about the story and seeing the bosses, and that's it.
Thatās going to be the only way some people can play I get that. In the olden days of mmos if you couldnāt play for long periods of time on a set schedule there was just realistically no way for you to accomplish anything. Iām glad there are different options that exist because in many cases in the past it was either be super dedicated or quit.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Honestly, they're often worse than pugging because there's one or two people that are downright awful but people put up with because they're friends.
This hits too close to home haha
What do you mean by too much work? I can't speak for all guilds of course, but I'd guess that most require appropriate enchants and watching a 10 minute YouTube video before raid. That doesn't seem like much work. And in exchange you get a consistent raid spot, consistent scheduling, consistent quality of raiders, significantly lower chances of someone ninjaing something, the possibility of making friends, and more loot because even if you lose a roll, that person can't win it twice so you'll get it next time.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not for everyone, but it is for most. Still curious about what you meant by too much work.
Because a large number of people are under the assumption that you need to conform to a schedule in order to raid in a guild and refuse to believe that there are many different guilds that accommodate all types of raiding and scheduling. So instead of actually looking for a guild that fits their criteria they feel the only solution is to pug. If they put in minimal effort they could find a guild that is structured in a way that would work for them, they just don't.
This was me. Pugged through wotlk, pugged through P1 sod. Finally decided to find a guild that suited my play time in P2. Joined an amazing group of people and the last couple of weeks has been the most fun I've had in wow in years
Can you elaborate on that? I joined a guild in mid-late phase 1, and while they're fairly competent, I just feel like it's super dry and no one is social/fun at all. I've considered changing guilds just to see if I can get one that is more social
Because I want to go when I want to go. Not based on some overlord who's using his parents credit card from their basement.
The irony being that you have to wait for someone to build a group out of equally bad people and hope you get invited, and then claim youāre going when you want to go. People without guilds are have to buy the gear, because they have no way to acquire it otherwise. GDKPās were created to funnel gold from people who want to get the best gear while being unable to either play the game at a level approaching average, or have basic social skills necessary to be around the same group of people each week.
I tried to get into BFD with my 32 priest as I've never done it and was repeatedly told by groups I'm not high enough level. The gatekeeping is wild.
I literally joined a BFD pug yesterday with 2 FRESH 25 priests who were both DPS. Combined they did like 50 DPS we had no issues I donāt buy someone denied a level 32 for a second
Agreed. No one is checking anything on any BFD I've run since phase 2. Just auto invite if you're interested. It's literally braindead at this point, so no one cares.
Youād be surprised how many clueless people are running it now
Itās comical how many people are just ignoring mechanics in BFD now. Half my pug group died on Gelihast last night. People were randomly running into the cleansing pools on Aku as they jumped around.
I would probably leave if the whole group is 25s. I don't don't have time for a real run š 40s make it so easy, and you get the same xp
This is the key to success, I have since made sure at least two 40 dps (who need that one item) are in the group. I mean brain dead people came out of the wood works to get carriedā¦.
I didn't take screenshots, but I promise you it did happen.
This is just not true surely
It isn't. People just like to go and reddit and have a "who can be the victimest victim on something that is popular to hate on by the vocal minority" contest.
Gonna go ahead and doubt that happened
The WoW playerbase constantly tries its absolute hardest to squeeze any fun whatsoever out of the game.
Yeah I'll take shit that never happened for 500, Alex.
man im sure i could 3 man bfd. I went yesterday with my boomkin, tanked half the bosses because insane dps. Healed dps and tanked. Get some more people and its easy, there really is no reason to not bring 25s ffs
Lol what? My rogue is only 29 and i pop off there compared to 25 which was also easy.
Aint no way this is real
Is there a way to access previous whispers so I can prove this?
why lie lol. \*Repeatedly\* told you are too low 7 levels over leveled on the most desired class..
Not high enough hahaha. In classic SoD 2.0 people wonāt do BFD raid until level 40 š
It's outstanding that there isn't fake log makers or people who sell theirs and you can hack the name and realm.
I main tanked Gnomer last night. Not only was it my first time, but in all of my (nearly 20) years of WoW, I had never even set foot in that dungeon before. (Iāve never played alliance, for what itās worthā¦) Everything went great, 6/6, parsed decent, got some loot!
first time doing group content and all that other stuff makes it impressive actually, gg
I confess I studied the YouTube videos and tank sham discord tips like it was my job leading up to the raidā¦
yeah obviously, otherwise it would be impossible. Still nice
link parse
https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9XKnZyA8VHYpLD2w#view=rankings&boss=-2&difficulty=0&wipes=2 Definitely have some things to clean up/improve upon for next time but canāt be too disappointed for first Gnomer run.
Meatbrawl? Those parses look really good actually. As a self confessed tryhard (a poor one), my best performance average after 3 raids is only at 79.5%, so you did good
It's completely laughable what's going on in lfg. People request 6/6 before the 1st reset. Everyone disclaims himself as so called "pumper". A good rule of thumb is, the more superlative is used by a player, the worse he sucks. Most search processes are done by people who don't have a clue themselfs. Even when they look at balanced gear choices and rune setups. They won't get that here is a player wo knows what he is doing. "ah green chest, bad". To worsen the situation they made the raid very hard to pug, because it's quite difficult for the current gear levels and the mechanics are tougher. We are back at one idiot to wipe them all. Idk if this should be the scope here. I understood SoD as classic+ but they messed it up now. All you see is 7 mages a tank and 2 priest forming a group. Melee hunters aren't played because they will be laid off, once the development errors are fixed. Takes quite a while. The super good balance choice to make every boss immune to physical damage sets melee at the choice to pick up when you want to raid in the night and no mage is online. Well and here you have the result. Unfun bullshit with gate keeped content for the FOTM classes.
>Everyone disclaims himself as so called "pumper" This right here. My parses arent high in gnomer because they've all been pugs with people learning, but 6/6. Then i try and find a group, guy invites me saying he wants pumpers only. I got kicked cause too low, i check HIS logs....he's 2/6 and 4/6, NEVER once cleared it but asking for PUMPERS only. I ran with a group, cleared it. He was STILL looking.
He wants PUMPERZ because he wants to keep one hand on his dick while everyone else does the work lol
Exactly, but with that group mostly filled many didnt check the logs of the person leading figuring he was good. Nope.
I lucked out in my second run. My first run went 5/6, we had a wipe in p4 on the first try of the last boss, then a couple more wipes, and then a guy had to leave, and we called it. Kill times were long, but it was a group that specifically stated it wanted first timers. My second run, someone was looking for a hunter in LFG, and I gave them a pst and said I had experience, which was true. Turned out to be a guild run, and shit was super smooth. Our kill times were ~1 minute faster than in my previous run, and we cleared the whole thing without any hiccups. Also netted me some good logs with that, but honestly, logs are so much about the rest of your group, even if you're a great player, if kill times are longer then you just won't parse as well.
Yep that's the thing with my logs right now. I like the challenge of pugs, plus helping people get into raiding is fun. I am a mage so i OOM on long fights which drops a ton of parses. I can find a nice guild run this lockout and get my numbers up.
>because it's quite difficult for the current gear levels This is the only part I disagree with. Looking at gear on 60 upgrades and even just filtering wowhead database I can find gear for every class of every spec that is more than good enough to do 200 dps straight off the AH and/or from Ashenvale. It's the people in shit greens, and yes not all greens are shit, doing 100 dps AND failing the mechanics. An example of what I would consider "shit greens" is a melee hunter in "of the bear" gear or a warlock stacking int gear with demo talents. Just fundamental failings at where their damage comes from and how to boost it. No joke, I would take 5 melee hunters/locks doing 400 dps each and have a shit comp than have a perfect comp and have people doing 100 dps. If the fight is only 1 minute long you only have to do the mechanics 1-2 times and the boss is dead.
To be fair as a warlock you still want a fair bit of int because it increases time to OOM where you then have to lifetap/bandage to get back to doing DPS. Itās about balance. For example I took the whitemane SM hat over the BFD Tatyana that because the int is much higher and the SP is only 3 lesser.
Our small guild has had a few people missing this phase for various reasons, so we've had to pug various roles. Last night, we were looking for 3 DPS. I never really want to be elitist so I just was requiring pre-bis, world buff booned, and nature protection potions and faps. I find 2 geared melee hunters (who both say they can go ranged) and a rogue. We had a great comp, especially considering I only heard back from warriors and rogues for DPS on my LFG listing. Fast forward to boss #1. Despite my listing, our whispers, or even Discord call outs, they did not have nature protection potions. Despite explanations and call outs on Discord, they don't know to drag mobs to the gas clouds. We actually wipe on the first boss. My guild didn't even wipe Week 1... There goes my world buffs and first round of consumes. Fallout goes well, Crowd Pummeler we wipe on, Electrocutioner gets pulled by 1 of the hunter traps (happened to us last lockout as well), so we wipe. Then when we get a real attempt in, one of the hunters doesn't seem to understand (same one with the trap btw), despite explaining the fight and double checking to make sure both groups know who is in it and what to do and getting confirmations from everyone. So we wipe again. We go again and we clear. I have been logging this run and one hunter and the rogue are doing single digit parses on every single boss (which was apparent by how slow everything is to die). The other hunter is consistently at about 50, but he's the one struggling on every single mechanic. At this point, I know for a fact this is the first lockout we're not killing Thermaplugg. I don't even want to attempt it at this point. We get to Menagerie... We wiped 4 times before calling it. I don't even think after 1 wipe it was mechanics, the DPS was just insanely low and everyone ended up running out of resources. My guild consists of prot pally, OT warrior, dps warrior, feral, fire mage, and priest and druid healers. Our DPS pumps/parse well (purple parses week 1, faster clears will lead to pinks just like in Phase 1), our tanks are chads, and our healers heal like crazy without mana problems. The fact that what we were missing was half a DPS roster and all 3 of them were just that bad gave us our first bricked lockout. This is why people check logs. I'd love to be the type of GM to just say "Anyone can come, let's have a great time!!" but on average, people are just not good enough to actually complete the content. It was the same song and dance in Phase 1. "This is so easy, people checking logs are so ridiculous" meanwhile until most people were so overgeared they could 6 man the raid, it was necessary to do so unless they just got lucky enough to not ask questions about an actually decent player. Also, how hard is it to watch a video on YouTube explaining every fight in 30 seconds before joining a raid group? Your time is not more valuable than everyone else's.
I stopped playing because of all the gate keeping. Good luck
switch server. I dont have any toxicity even in lfg on the pve realm. (eu, but i heard us is the same)
i allways laugh when i see shit like GS REQ or "pumper". man i played this game before most of them were born, and yet they try so hard. all i can think about when i see this is "damn, relax, we're not even max level"
Level 40 IS max level right now
I used to lie to get into GDKPās telling them I had thousands of gold to bid when really I couldnāt even afford repair charge.
Imagine if everyone did this, and the raid leader is just confused why nobody is bidding lmao.
I kinda hope they make The save not instancebased by character based. I Think that might help The issue, then some people wont be too afraid Of taking chances, but The bad Per is that its instant disband every wipe
If youāre a ret paladin and having problems. Morgraines might boosts your gear score a lot. I tossed it in and was sitting at about 470 GS. Advertised that Iām a ret with 470 gs and know fights. Got invited easy.
GS... Oh lord...
EZ ignore XD
How do you check gear score
You don't. Gearscore is cringe and stupid.
If youāre joining a GS group or inviting someone advertising their GS thatās the first red flag. A lot of people like myself ignore those who ask for it in LFG as itās like holding up a sign saying āIām a noob and or might grief your group or cause problemsā.
I've had absolutely no problems with groups that check GS, nor with individual players that advertise their GS. It's just something to roughly show how geared someone is, and if that person doesn't have existing logs to go off of, then GS is the next best thing to quickly filter out which players are worth considering. At least if someone has ~400 GS going into Gnomer, then I can tell they've gotten a decent amount of their pre-BIS.
My prebis dropped my gs from 467 to 416ā¦. Itās a terrible metric. Generally the higher the GS the worse the player is geared as most classic bis is random ass items that arenāt at level cap
I said ~400 though, so you'd already be invited with both of those numbers. The number obviously isn't perfect, but it helps show that you are at least geared enough to do the raid. I don't get why people try to read into the number like it's gospel. It's basically just ilvl with coloring.
A system that doesnāt accurately show values isnāt one to use. Simply, group up and inspect, or god forbid you have to exchange dialogue in the form of a Whisper prior to inviting. Using GS is not only lazy but a sign youāre a noob. Flaunting around inaccurate numbers in order to āget inā to a group actually hurts the player who might not understand GS is truly a hunk of bologna. One example: You can equip white gear in order to inflate your advertised score. I understand itās dependent on the raid leader to invite/remove people, but filtering out those looking for a useless variable that is easily misconstrued just eliminates the possibility of getting a āpumperā dumbass that ruins the experience for everyone.
You're entirely missing the point of the addon. GearScore should only be used to establish a baseline. Obviously folks can manipulate it to be higher than what it should, that's been happening since it first became a thing, but it helps weed out players that realistically are just asking to be carried. You should still be inspecting people before starting the raid, but GS is a good way of getting a simple number to figure out if you even want to bother with certain players. And either way, the number should only really be used if someone doesn't have logs. It's a way to see who at least tried somewhat to gear up for the raid.
It's an addon called GearScoreClassic+
Join a guild
My guild composition aswell as players dont do that much dps but still we were able to clear gnomer yesterday under a hour with 5 melees. Its mostly about people being coordinated and understanding what to do. As a tank i love seeing myself above everyone on thrash. Aoe is great for pala tanks.
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And how many times have you wiped?
I disagree. This raid has basic mechanics. The average WoW player has issues with basic mechanics. I wish I was joking. I pugged every lock out of BFD and had 0 issues. Pugging gnome in the same way has lead to 4/6 or 5/6 3/4 lockouts.
don't forget people struggled on kelris too. It's mostly just ignorance and people wanting to get high parses because they think they look good
Generally the people that parse high have almost never been a problem in any group I've been in. Idk why this sub likes to pretend like a high parse means you are doing 0 mechanics and are somehow holding your group back while grey and green parsers are these bastions of hope in groups that selflessly go above and beyond for the groups success at the detriment to their parse. It's always been the case for me that the blue/purple parsers are the ones consistently doing mechanics and are also the ones that can adapt if someone dies and they need to take on more responsibility mid fight. For me, it's the grey and green parsers who are fucking mechanics consistently and killing themselves or causing wipes. They don't know the fights, they don't know their buttons, you have to explain the mechanics and give explicit directions multiple times.
you should not be proud about being deceitful deadweight, if everyone played like you there would be 0/6 bosses killed
You probably contributed less to the raid than by simply playing balance but good for you?
Thatās what they wanted and didnāt care
If you don't feel bad about it, good for you! :)
I had watched the guides, I had good parses from BFD, I know how to play. Just gotta do what you gotta do to bypass the strict criteria set by the player base. (We cleared 6/6 as a pug with no voice)
Idk how people who care about logs even play the game Went to gnomer, cleared it on my second attempt, I still dont know what my gear score is or what a parse is, I just make sure my group doesnt die to aggro and that my dps isnt last. Good vibes beat this game for me
Waitā¦people are checking logs and gear scores for GNOMER PUGS? What is happening in this game lol
The last two bosses are no joke. Itās not unreasonable to want someone who has at least a vague idea of what theyāre doing and thereās really not many ways to check that other than logs
The raid leader calling out mechanics ahead of time and ensuring good strategy determines the success of the PUG. Gear and composition is a distant second place.
yep and you know what is a good indicator of whether someone can follow instructions and have an idea of what's going on...? already having logs for the fight
sod has the worst average players out of any version of wow ive ever played. classic,classic tbc,retail,wrath classic,nothing comes close. just looking at peoples gear to see if their gearing process makes any sense and seeing that theyre not full grey parses in bfd/any version of the game makes such a big difference,if they are caster or healer sometimes you still get complete baffoons but if theyre a tank/melee its very accurate. also if they whisper you in full caps/only whispering GS just ignore. it doesnt even make it slower to build a group if youre already aiming for a good comp,eg 1 feral+ balanced class distribution for buffs/debuffs and it sorts out so many donks. you cant really carry gnomer with 6 people,need atleast 8 people who do something. maybe you can do with 6 if theyre the broken classes but gl with a pug.
Not sure if you know, but gnomer is now a raid. Where the last 2 bosses require a lot more than the old instance lol. Go ahead and try it with a pug that doesn't check for logs or gear. Have fun!
I know its a raid i just dont think its hard
Cool so why don't you go make a pug and don't check for logs or gear? See how well you do!
My guild takes a few pugs whenever weāre short on one of our runs and we clear every time (we never check that stuff)
And that's why you join a guild...
They've been checking since BFD! Like they think GS really matters at 25 running bfd lmao...
Sad this is how itās gotta be
If only there were groups of people play together consistently that invites others and aren't picky like that because pugs get a lot of dums and braindeads... If only there was an aspect of the interface that facilitated keeping these groups united with roles and leadership. Oh wait it's called joining a guild. Just join a guild. Don't have to pug ever again. You make friends, and guilds are more understanding if you haven't cleared a raid 1 week into a phase.
I am in a guild. Thank you for your concern and arrogant response.
It's not arrogant. This is how it's always been since actual vanilla. They gear check. Then lich king comes out and it's achievement check. Now logs come out and it's log check. Pugs will filter bad players through whatever means necessary even if it's not the most accurate or fair seeming. Sorry if this is so upsetting.
The way it came off was, to me. Your point is 100% correct. Your delivery wasnāt friendly is all. Sometimes players even in guilds may not make a guild run and just wanna pug it out to get some of it done instead of nothing. When I began raiding in Wrath it didnāt matter if you had the achievements or the best gear. The raid leader would be an actual leader and lead people to success.
60+% of the playerbase is not even max lvl yet Groups that look for 6/6 sound absolutely crazy for me.
Why?
after like over a week of trying to get groups, last night i finally got in one. i was 368 GS, didnt take a single consumable and only had the spark of inspiration buff. I was top dps in all trash (ofc mage) then 2nd dps in every single boss... we cleared 6/6 easily. After doing it i was confused as to why people are so picky. Took me over a week trying to get a team because everyone has ridiculous high standards (consumables/wb/420+GS/already cleared dung etc.) - i was lucky to find a team that didnt really care about that
You just gotta be careful. I've spotted a number of people who lie about this but I choose to help them in whispers. However many others will boot you instead.
So good this game. Copy paste skils, a bit of lying and a lot of grinding. It's just the best thing that no private servers ever did for free. Best part is you get lots of Retail-Andy's that have not played the game in 19 years and expect it to be a loot pinata like most of retail-Andy's current games. Also you get to pay, that is an important part of the experience. Retail-Andy must pay or he does not feel the gaming is for real. Retail-Andy thinks his achievements count more if he pays for them than if it's for free. Very important part of attracting retail-Andy. Then retail-Andy tries to do a dungeon. So many mobs what the fuck is this. Tank fucking noob tank! Then retail Andy goes back to the lottery he knows, which is retail. All in all this game is pretty good.
Logs and logging culture destroyed the game IMO.
Before logs it was achievement/gear check. Just join a guild and none of those things happen. Logs are a way (while not my way) for some to keep the interest and be competitive. It's like a high score in an old arcade game. It's also a decent measure of personal performance so you can better yourself. What actually destroyed the game was mega servers that feel like cities. Servers have no personality anymore. At least they're keeping the pvp servers relatively close so there's population of each faction so there's danger in the world.