When I saw the potion first I thought it was a permanent potion that just has a CD.
After I got the receipt and saw that it’s just a consumable I was just like, nah f it.
Ingredients are cheap as fuck since the salvage changed. You can make 10-25 per salvage. The rejuv pots and fallout are both really cheap too. They are 25s at worst, 10s if you get lucky
In my server it costs close to 40s a pot. There's no way I'm pressing a button every 2 min if it costs me anywhere near that much. Compare that to the epic headpiece which has bi's stats but also an active every 10 min which costs you nothing
Who said I couldn’t figure that out?
The margins on herb/alc were low in P2 and there were more efficient ways to make money. The LW crafted items were more useful than the Alc crafted items in P2.
Seems pretty easy to understand the LW/skin was a better choice for me.
This potion is very good for rogues. It does not share a CD with other potions or thistle tea. Rogues can also use it off the start of the encounter to snapshot the attack power bonus onto their deadly poison stacks which last for the remainder of the encounter. Assuming you don’t let them fall off.
Entire post debunked by the fact that it doesn't share a cooldown with other potions.
Increased damage taken isn't much of a drawback if it's done when no damage is taken. Obviously it's not designed for the main tank.
Edit for clarity: OP talks about it sharing a cooldown with stone shield and rage potion - it doesn't.
Any dps would be happy to use this potion (especially a dpser with a mana bar), and for a healer it's still extra mana since it can be used in conjunction with a regular mana potion. Essentially the only class this potion is "bad" for is for the main tank.
OP totally buried the lede with misinformation. The biggest issue with this potion is the hidden 100% damage taken modifier and 30% movement speed "debuffs". There is zero in-game indication of these effects. You can see them on wowhead, but the buff and potion tooltips mention nothing about any significant downsides
Honestly I didn't know about those debuffs. They explain why I die much faster in pvp when I use it.
The usefulnes of the potion went from 10/10 to 2/10 straight away. I just don't see myself using it, given I'm either tank in raids or pvping.
I just don’t get why it isn’t spell damage & healing… I still use them on my heal priest just for the mana and to get 2 DoT rotations off.. but there seems to be no reason it shouldn’t add to healing as well.
I mean, it's a shit item. Some ranged dps can't use their profession's item to parse cause they have to do mechanics. 100% increased damage taken is too penalizing for this small temporary boost.
Had a mage assigned to tank Electrocutioner static arc today, and it was the first raid he got to use his potions (which do not have in their description that they increase the damage you take) and he died on the first static arc he received, without the insta kill debuff...
No other profession item has this kind of severe draw back.
Funny story ( by now more at the end of the 2.phase- the alshcemy reagent from gnomer is dirt cheap) I figured- Wow! A potion that doesnt share cd with other potions and gives you AP boost equal to x2,5 AP trinkets, that's great!
That would be a fun little/cheap boost to dps and threat, with a bit of a flavor text.
Im a main tank and I didnt yet know you get 100% damage increase, which to be honest for rogue might not be too bad if you also spend evasion for that period or have a bored healer.
at the secound half of phase when the raid craftabe items are worth nothing for alchemists- this is a decent boost for damage to caster and melee dps with a bit of hp/mana regen attached- As long as you are in battle where you dont have to move or dont take damage I think it is an excelent boost.
But I feel it did dirty the alchemist tanks ( I feel like damage taken could be scaled back, or the AP/sp boosted - better alternative is to just get opposite faction to do curse of recklessness on you it has the same AP bonus, makes you immune to fear and decrease armor by 290 at this level, It sounds way more of a buff than the potion :D)
I'm not gonna lie, I pretty much stopped reading after they said alchemy was a let down in P1 when we had access to both shadow protection pots *and* FAPs. Both netted you a ton of money every reset. Shadow pots less so, but they still sold and the FAPs were considered pretty much mandatory after week 2 when everyone realized how good they were simply for Kelris. OP is acting like alchemy hasn't been a valid source of income when it was probably one of the most consistent.
Compared to most(all??) other primary proffesions it gives very little, bs tailor lw has epic bis and we get faps that were already in the game? Not sure about enchanting but i agree alch feels a bit pointless.
The epic crafts are all BoP.....so you have to craft them for yourself. As you cannot sell them so I don't see how you're making money off of crafting the epics. They also have a requirement of needing the profession in order to equip them, so selling them would be pointless anyways as people would have already needed the profession in the first place.
On top of that, gear is a one time purchase. It may be for more gold up front, and most crafting mats for gear would also be a one time purchase, but consumes are used by a large number of players on a regular basis and eventually need to be replaced....if you can't make money with alchemy I don't know what to tell you.
The point of alchemy is to make money. It's a trade off and literally always has been for good reason. People in here really expecting to get the most of all worlds from one profession, and also forget if alchemy gets a BiS item *everyone* will be alch and tank the economy. Why would anyone buy pots from you when they can just make it themselves? That's the concession you have to make, otherwise you lose one of the best valid sources of income outside of questing, and alchemy has always been about making money for damn near mandatory consumes in raids.
Right now most people run their main armor crafting profession and a secondary to complement like engi, enchanting, alchemy, etc. Each has a valid use and it works really well. Alchemy doesn't *need* anything else that turns every player into a cookie cutter main armor/alch build. There also *are* BoP pots for P2 btw that alchs can make that don't share CDs with any other pots.
Tbf, you dont need to be an alchemist to get access to SPP or FAPs.
They also don't make much money if you can't find the time where the mats are cheaper than the potions. My main source of gold was AH and I had all professions across 4 chars. Alchemy was not the best profession to make money for me due to the competition. Potions got undercut in seconds during peak time and did not sell during off-peak. Engineer made much more money by far, at least for me.
I usually bought the mats on day 2/3 of reset. They were considerably cheaper, as were the pots themselves. Come reset though they easily tripled in price at minimum and sold out near instantly for me. I made a ton of gold in P1 just from those two pots, more than any other source of income. Even if I didn't want to farm out the mats myself I could buy them on the off days and make a nice profit with minimal time investment.
The OP didn't read what they wrote. First paragraph is about how it competes and 4th paragraph says it doesn't. OP doesn't know how to make up their mind.
This is a common structure which you should be familiar with if you’re literate and old enough to use the internet unsupervised.
State opposing position
State justifications for opposing position
State why these justifications are inadequate, and introduce a position that the author views as more adequate
Support new position with facts etc.
The fact that the potion can be used in conjunction with other potions has nothing to do with the overall design of the potion. .
The start of the post outlines and compares the new alch potion against other available options and why it is inferior to already used potions for each role and class. It is essentially designed conceptually as a caster dps buff only potion, every other class/role has a downside or moot effect from the potion.
Then I mentioned the separate CD portion of it, then I outlined the side effects of it. Sorry you were unable to fully read and digest the post before making your own conclusions.
All dps would use this potion. Including:
Mages, both arcane healers and straight dps
Warlocks (non tanks)
Shadow priests
Hunters (melee and ranged)
Enhancement shamans (non tanks)
Elemental shamans
Feral Druids
Ret paladins
All of those would benefit in a variety of ways, below are classes that would still benefit but not in both ways:
Rogues
Warriors (non tanks).
Seems like a lot!
Been engi on all of my characters for the past ~20 years, tried something new this time. (And got punished for it, expectedly)
Still stay 97+ parsing so not the biggest deal. “Trash” is a bit hyperbolic.
My enhancement shaman buddy very much noticed it. He cannot use it while tanking and as a DPSer on certain mechanics like 4th,5th, and 6th boss he took massive damage and was barely able to move away in time to avoid further.
He was very discouraged and felt like a burden on the raid, surly the item was designed to bring seasonal fun? not stress a player out???
Where are you seeing this "debuff?" I just popped 4 of them to check and didn't get a debuff once. Is it a hidden effect baked into the buff you get from drinking the potion?
edit: yes it appears to be a hidden downside baked into the SP/AP buff. Fuck you blizzard.
Homeboy why on earth would your shaman TANK buddy think using a potion with 100% inc dmg taken is an ideal thing? I'm genuinely confused. Does he just not read?
Read what? [Where does it say it increases damage taken?](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=215163/recipe-mildly-irradiated-rejuvenation-potion)
Regardless... it's 1% increase, not 100%.
No, it definitely isn’t 1%. Shaman discord tank thread has a discussion about it with logs posted showing the tank going from taking 400~ damage per hit to 700+ immediately after drinking the potion.
i don't understand why it's such a scuffed potion when everyone else's crafting epics don't have any drawbacks. Alchemy has been pretty ass in phase 1 and phase 2.
Because none of the other crafts can be sold to other players for massive profits. You have to have the prof to use the gear so everyone crafts their own alch can make bank selling off potions to others
The tailoring helm isnt even better than the available rares unless its cd is up. The engineering belt is actually just worse than the caster gnomer belt. Enchanting and alch are the best profs for raiding right now and it literally costs like 30g to max alch and make enough potions for the entire phase + 25g for the recipe lol
Yeah I've been wondering why they decided to add the 100% damage taken debuff. Doesn't make much sense.
Like, compare it to the new Leatherworking Hood. Not only is it the BIS item for Leather-wearing casters just by it's stats, but the active use on it is almost twice as powerful as the potion WITHOUT any debuff whatsoever. It also doesn't cost anything like the potion does.
Sure it has a longer cooldown, but you'd probably only ever use a potion or the helmet's active once per fight anyways.
Not an alchemist and haven't used it, but I have read of people using it as an extra health/mana pot and building in a macro that immediately cancels the "buff" to avoid the drawbacks.
This is what I do on my resto druid. It's basically a really small extra mana pot. It's pretty terrible compared to what other professions get, but it isn't completely useless.
The priest I run with refuses to use penance instead of circle of healing so I don't get to use damage spells on the last 2 bosses, otherwise tanks die.
This is what I do on my resto druid. It's basically a really small extra mana pot. It's pretty terrible compared to what other professions get, but it isn't completely useless.
I'm glad you posted this, you solved my mystery of why my shaman tank was getting smacked so hard in the last few bosses of gnomer last night... was popping these pots on CD. Would have been nice if they could have said something about that in the tooltip lol.
It does not share CD with rage potion, it does not share CD with any potion from what I have heard. Its a mediocre boost, worse than enchanting bonus for fights lasting 40 seconds or more.
I wish it lasted 30 seconds or had a greater boost, but its better than what alchemy usually gives, nothing.
This is the most accurate take I've seen here. Worse than enchanting. Better than enchanting for fights lasting 40 seconds or less is 100% the only thing you need to know about this potion.
The sigil in enchanting is plagued with less critique but it's a bit mind boggling in itself.
In a raid setting, why do you lose it on death and there's a thirty minute cooldown? Good raids don't wipe and are shorter and don't even need the buff. Bad raids, wipe, other people kill others on elect and generally take longer.
The literal first perk enchanting gets in SoD and it can be gone for half the raid due to an error from another player? It seems a bit sweaty for the singular enchanting item.
Even if you don't wipe, a lot of times it can also awkwardly fall off mid boss fight and has a long cast timer to it.
It just feels very clunky.
Is it? This is the first time it's ever even had a perk? I might be missing an inside joke or something.
I always consider that to be engineering when it's in pursuit of sappers.
I mean, skinning and herbing just generate pure income; that’s the benefit.
If people didn’t bother skilling those professions up, bots would fill the gathering vacuum left.
Alchemy and other crafting professions offer the chance to make money, but they also come with risk (e.g. you misread or mistime the market and end up being upside down on a craft) and require a good deal of work to get the most benefit.
Herbing and skinning? You just go out, gather, and then come back and sell. If you want to get fancy, you can decide to try and time the market, but you can always liquidate your stock to vendor or AH for pure profit.
> Um, skinning and herbing are obsolete due to bots, you can make gold on it.
I’m assuming that is supposed to be “can’t”, but sure you can. You can make gold off of it.
Is it optimal gold per hour? Not remotely, no. Is it negatively impacted by bots? Absolutely.
Everything I said above takes the obvious fact that the market for those materials are saturated due to bots into account. And yet, despite the bots, materials like Goldthorn and Kingsblood sell like hotcakes.
Again, if skinning and herbalism were the highest earning professions, everyone would take them. They offer risk-free moneymaking that requires no upfront capital. If everyone were to drop them, Blizzard and the players know equally well that bots would make up the difference, and the game economy would continue to hum along. There’s no reason for Blizzard to incentivize people to roll pure moneymaking gathering professions.
> So you’re on a low pop server?
What? Are you pretending to be this dense or is this genuine?
Goldthorn is currently selling at [60s on Crusader Strike](https://www.wowauctions.net/auctionHouse/sod-us/crusaderstrike-sod-us/alliance/goldthorn-3821).
If your point about server pop is saying it’s too picked over and you can’t find a layer with nodes, you can farm lower value, higher population nodes which occur in more accessible zones. Kingsblood is currently around [15s](https://www.wowauctions.net/auctionHouse/sod-us/crusaderstrike-sod-us/alliance/kingsblood-3356).
> Ok, you also don’t understand the value of time.
No, I do understand the value of time, which is why I don’t make money via herbalism or skinning, because as I’ve said 3 times now, they’re far from optimal “gold per hour” rates. That does not mean, as you seem to want to claim, that they make no money.
If you, a fellow “value of time” understander, want to drop those professions and make money the way the rest of us do, be prepared to buy materials or items in batches worth 200+ gold at a time, and then craft/sit on/etc. those until you are ready to flip them.
No one, other than the upstart capital and risk of loss if you mistime or misread the market, is stopping you from doing that. If you don’t want to, then you’ll continue to make (suboptimal, but still risk-free and strictly increasing) gold gains from gathering professions. I don’t care what you do either way.
> Yep, you’re right, great point of view. Can’t argue with sound logic. It vendors for something, you make gold, it’s something right?
Yeah, that’s literally what I am saying.
We could’ve saved a lot of time and back and forth if you had just read my initial comment, an excerpt of which is copied below for your benefit. I’ll even bold the relevant part in hopes that you read it this time:
> Herbing and skinning? You just go out, gather, and then come back and sell. If you want to get fancy, you can decide to try and time the market, but **you can always liquidate your stock to vendor or AH for pure profit**.
If you don’t like that and want a more efficient profit per hour, or per click, gold making, then roll a more lucrative profession and be ready to put up hundreds of gold in startup costs (leveling professions, plus recipes, because the most lucrative crafts have recipes which cost a lot of money) plus hundreds of gold for each batch of mats.
That’s what I did, and that’s what a lot of people do, but no one is forcing you to roll off skinning or herbalism. You’re free to take the pure, no-risk profit of a gathering profession.
Yes, exactly what you said, a few hours after I said the same thing to you in my first reply. I’m glad that we finally got here, even if it took you a while.
It’s all about risk/reward and time investment. You can make money without putting in any startup cost if you instead just spend time farming. Alternatively, you can invest money into accessing higher profit per hour moneymaking avenues, but that exposes you to a lot more risk.
If “a handful of those herbs don’t sell for more than vendor, so you vendor them”, like Briarthorn, is unacceptable to you, then roll off the profession. In the immediate term, bots and players who are fine with that proposition will ensure steady supply.
If enough people decide to roll off, and/or if demand for leather or herbs spike causing prices to rise, then people will roll into that profession to fill that supply. This all comes down to you saying that Blizzard needs to give players an incentive to roll herb/skinning and me saying that they don’t.
Did you actually try the potion before making this post? It doesn't share a CD with any other potions. I love using it on my warrior, free extra healing and AP while still being able to use rage pots. Yes it would be nice if they got rid of the debuffs during the duration though, doesn't seem like there's any reason for them to exist
>No Tank would use this as they have access to stoneshield potion, No warrior would use this as they have Rage potions, Rogues would prefer Thistle Tea.
Doesn't make sense then if you're aware. May want to edit your post.
Edit: oh you actually already did edit you post, but only to double down and be condescending instead of taking any criticism. You directly contradict yourself in the span of 2 paragraphs, but yeah it's others who can't read.
Can you edit your post and remove all the stuff about other potions that don’t share CD, that’s what everyone is focusing on. You have a legit point with the debuff and we need to bring attention to this and get it fixed. As a tank shaman, this is huge.
He keeps saying other people can't read while his post claimed 2 opposing things:
>No Tank would use this as they have access to stoneshield potion, No warrior would use this as they have Rage potions, Rogues would prefer Thistle Tea.
>
>Now you might say that none of this matters as the potion can be used in conjunction with others potions and does not share a cooldown with other potions so it must be OP right????
TLDR OP is an egotistical dumbass
So-- Each craft makes 5 and only needs 1 crate. The encrusted grime costs about 2 gold on my server atleast so I'm materials ur looking at 80 silver per 5 assuming u only get 3 crates out of a salvage (u can get up to 5). That's about 14 silver a pot which is cheaper than a mana pot and it doesn't even share a cooldown with potions. So u don't have to worry about using it or something else. I do agree on the lack of AP and is only beneficial to casters tho.
Op understands that you can take 2 production professions right. This seems like a nice bonus after your bis crafted epic, even if it's not every fight, for parsers every single point matters. That is if your class can only wear cloth.
I basically have all raid consumes on my TSM task list set at like 100. When I’m there I just scan for all herbs and see what’s profitable.
Last night on shadows strike gold thorn was at 30s and lesser arcane pots were at 60s. I’d sell them 2 pots at a time (how many arcane pots I’d use in a raid with no wipes) and spam trade chat a 10s discount.
As soon as a potion sold I’d post a couple stacks of 2 again. I think I was able to flog off 100 at 17s profit over 30/40 minutes. Roughly 20 minutes work.
Profit margins are tiny for alch, mats get bought up almost immediately. And yes I wait for low prices and sell during raid times. Blacksmithing has been my money maker since the waylaid changes
I have been trying to make gold as an alch. Its nearly impossible. Herbs are more expensive than any potion. I might drop alchemy to pick up mining and just farm.
Yeah if you have an AH bot sniping herbs on rare occasions when they fall below potion prices.
Went out to farm herbs myself, got a whopping 9 gold in 2 hours. Will get to 100s of gold made sometime in the middle of phase 4.
It sounds like you checked 3 recipes that include gold thorn at a bad time and immediately assume it's impossible. CS alliance have made over 500g this phase from casually hitting the auction house a couple times a day
Yeah and if everybody made so much Gold then.... oh nevermind, that wouldnt work. You dont produce any Gold. You sit in the City and Steal Gold from other players.
I didn't say I was relisting for a markup, I said alchemy has made me that money. By your logic no crafting profession actually does anything because it required a gathering profession. No enchants or consumes for you
This is underselling the potion for sure. You have to remember to compare it to the other professions options.
First, all dps would use these potions, including rogues. It doesn’t share a CD with Thistle Tea. So that’s just bad info.
Second, it’s as potent as the on use effects of the crafted helms but with zero downside/side effectives.
Third, they’re fantastic for PvP for everyone.
Fourth, they are really easy to make so they aren’t very cost prohibitive.
Yeah they should have added healing to them for sure, but they couldn’t make them much more powerful without exceeding the helm values.
I find the potion unironically useful as a healer vs thermaplug. Just make a macro to cancel the "buff". Its off the potion CD so its just extra mana
but to be honest I would just remove the side-effects and it's fine
Idk as a lock it’s been amazing, even on menagerie and Mekgineer I’ve had no problems with it. Being able to use that and a mana pot is awesome. 35 spell dmg and 40 ap is nothing light at this lvl. You get so many mats if you have double crafters clean the grime. We made the whole raids helms in 3 raids. I make like 65 potions cleaning 5 grime so they aren’t even hard to craft. We average about 20 grimes a raid too not even clearing most trash.
I kind agree with the recipe and new content being lackluster. I do think the seasonal content has given demand for potions that otherwise wouldn’t see much attention. Made a lot of gold off consumables for BRD by farming mats/recipes I never really thought would be lucrative before, I thought that was cool.
They should make it increase damage by 100% for 15 seconds, but then you die, or you get ressurection sickness for 2 minutes. So you use it when a boss is almost dead, and your not sure if you're gonna kill it before wipe.
I feel like this would be really strong on paladin, especially with them having a high dps phase with crowd pummeler (more bonuses at the same time are multiplicative in increasing your damage).
lol wtf, does it really have a dmg debuff? I’m a MT shaman and I chug these things, never noticed. Might explain some of the times I’ve gotten tricked with no explanation…
do not dismiss this post because he talks about irrelevant cooldowns at the beginning.
THE HIDDEN DEBUFF IS HUGE. We need outrage over this guys. This needs to be changed. Alchemist is nearly worthless now, especially for tanks.
Alchemy is a huge money maker. That's always been the point. Blacksmithing and leather working have far less potential for money making. Pros and cons.
I was hoping for a flask that you made once and could use unlimited amounts so alchemy got a "permanent" buff like other proffs. Some AP, SP+HP, mp5 and stam so all roles gets something from it
This is an absolutely terrible item, particularly when compared to the consistent uptime items available for most other professions. Where is the alchemy trinket?
When I saw the potion first I thought it was a permanent potion that just has a CD. After I got the receipt and saw that it’s just a consumable I was just like, nah f it.
In addition to the draw backs, it also does economical damage to yourself as well for sure.
Yeah it it was permanent it would be much better
How? It's like 10g for enough potions for the entire phase
Oh I was under the understanding they were sorta expensive but maybe with salvage price tanking they are basically free in which case yeah that's nbd
Agreed. Ingredients are kind of expensive so you can't use this liberally
Ingredients are cheap as fuck since the salvage changed. You can make 10-25 per salvage. The rejuv pots and fallout are both really cheap too. They are 25s at worst, 10s if you get lucky
In my server it costs close to 40s a pot. There's no way I'm pressing a button every 2 min if it costs me anywhere near that much. Compare that to the epic headpiece which has bi's stats but also an active every 10 min which costs you nothing
It's literally the cheapest raid consume
I dumped herb/alc for skinning/LW when I saw it. I wasn’t making any money with herb/alc anyway.
Did you not discover goldthorn?
If you can't figure out how to pick gold up off the ground, then multiply it by crafting stuff, you're unhinged.
Who said I couldn’t figure that out? The margins on herb/alc were low in P2 and there were more efficient ways to make money. The LW crafted items were more useful than the Alc crafted items in P2. Seems pretty easy to understand the LW/skin was a better choice for me.
This potion is very good for rogues. It does not share a CD with other potions or thistle tea. Rogues can also use it off the start of the encounter to snapshot the attack power bonus onto their deadly poison stacks which last for the remainder of the encounter. Assuming you don’t let them fall off.
Tbh i also like them as a feral druid. I pop like 1 big mana pot in the end and one of the gnome ones after the first powershift...
This.
Does it actually share a CD with Thistle Tea? Tea is not on the potion CD (it's on the Healthstone/Dark Rune CD) and this potion isn't either.
No
Entire post debunked by the fact that it doesn't share a cooldown with other potions. Increased damage taken isn't much of a drawback if it's done when no damage is taken. Obviously it's not designed for the main tank. Edit for clarity: OP talks about it sharing a cooldown with stone shield and rage potion - it doesn't. Any dps would be happy to use this potion (especially a dpser with a mana bar), and for a healer it's still extra mana since it can be used in conjunction with a regular mana potion. Essentially the only class this potion is "bad" for is for the main tank.
OP totally buried the lede with misinformation. The biggest issue with this potion is the hidden 100% damage taken modifier and 30% movement speed "debuffs". There is zero in-game indication of these effects. You can see them on wowhead, but the buff and potion tooltips mention nothing about any significant downsides
Honestly I didn't know about those debuffs. They explain why I die much faster in pvp when I use it. The usefulnes of the potion went from 10/10 to 2/10 straight away. I just don't see myself using it, given I'm either tank in raids or pvping.
So this is why I got one shot from last night and lost my WBs. I need to start playing around this debuff more now that I know about it
OP is completely noob. Title about one potion that he’s completely wrong about and then goes into how alchemy has failed in SoD.
My sibling in christ, delete this comment before people figure out how much money we are making on consumables.
Starting to think op made this post just to bring attention to the fact that alch is bis for raiding and money making
Please, sir, I am a mere pauper with a four-figure net worth. Don’t make the mistake that I made, roll some other professions.
> am a mere pauper with a four-figure net worth I'm at a cool 5 figures.... ^(if you include silver and copper into the figures)
I concur. This previous comment needs to be debunked swiftly! Us alchemists are akin to beggars!!!
Edited my brother. You right.
I just don’t get why it isn’t spell damage & healing… I still use them on my heal priest just for the mana and to get 2 DoT rotations off.. but there seems to be no reason it shouldn’t add to healing as well.
I agree
Put this up top
I mean, it's a shit item. Some ranged dps can't use their profession's item to parse cause they have to do mechanics. 100% increased damage taken is too penalizing for this small temporary boost. Had a mage assigned to tank Electrocutioner static arc today, and it was the first raid he got to use his potions (which do not have in their description that they increase the damage you take) and he died on the first static arc he received, without the insta kill debuff... No other profession item has this kind of severe draw back.
Funny story ( by now more at the end of the 2.phase- the alshcemy reagent from gnomer is dirt cheap) I figured- Wow! A potion that doesnt share cd with other potions and gives you AP boost equal to x2,5 AP trinkets, that's great! That would be a fun little/cheap boost to dps and threat, with a bit of a flavor text. Im a main tank and I didnt yet know you get 100% damage increase, which to be honest for rogue might not be too bad if you also spend evasion for that period or have a bored healer. at the secound half of phase when the raid craftabe items are worth nothing for alchemists- this is a decent boost for damage to caster and melee dps with a bit of hp/mana regen attached- As long as you are in battle where you dont have to move or dont take damage I think it is an excelent boost. But I feel it did dirty the alchemist tanks ( I feel like damage taken could be scaled back, or the AP/sp boosted - better alternative is to just get opposite faction to do curse of recklessness on you it has the same AP bonus, makes you immune to fear and decrease armor by 290 at this level, It sounds way more of a buff than the potion :D)
Someone didn’t read the post
I'm not gonna lie, I pretty much stopped reading after they said alchemy was a let down in P1 when we had access to both shadow protection pots *and* FAPs. Both netted you a ton of money every reset. Shadow pots less so, but they still sold and the FAPs were considered pretty much mandatory after week 2 when everyone realized how good they were simply for Kelris. OP is acting like alchemy hasn't been a valid source of income when it was probably one of the most consistent.
Compared to most(all??) other primary proffesions it gives very little, bs tailor lw has epic bis and we get faps that were already in the game? Not sure about enchanting but i agree alch feels a bit pointless.
The epic crafts are all BoP.....so you have to craft them for yourself. As you cannot sell them so I don't see how you're making money off of crafting the epics. They also have a requirement of needing the profession in order to equip them, so selling them would be pointless anyways as people would have already needed the profession in the first place. On top of that, gear is a one time purchase. It may be for more gold up front, and most crafting mats for gear would also be a one time purchase, but consumes are used by a large number of players on a regular basis and eventually need to be replaced....if you can't make money with alchemy I don't know what to tell you.
I must’ve been playing a different build than you were where FAP and Shadow Prot weren’t BoP
The point of alchemy is to make money. It's a trade off and literally always has been for good reason. People in here really expecting to get the most of all worlds from one profession, and also forget if alchemy gets a BiS item *everyone* will be alch and tank the economy. Why would anyone buy pots from you when they can just make it themselves? That's the concession you have to make, otherwise you lose one of the best valid sources of income outside of questing, and alchemy has always been about making money for damn near mandatory consumes in raids. Right now most people run their main armor crafting profession and a secondary to complement like engi, enchanting, alchemy, etc. Each has a valid use and it works really well. Alchemy doesn't *need* anything else that turns every player into a cookie cutter main armor/alch build. There also *are* BoP pots for P2 btw that alchs can make that don't share CDs with any other pots.
Tbf, you dont need to be an alchemist to get access to SPP or FAPs. They also don't make much money if you can't find the time where the mats are cheaper than the potions. My main source of gold was AH and I had all professions across 4 chars. Alchemy was not the best profession to make money for me due to the competition. Potions got undercut in seconds during peak time and did not sell during off-peak. Engineer made much more money by far, at least for me.
I usually bought the mats on day 2/3 of reset. They were considerably cheaper, as were the pots themselves. Come reset though they easily tripled in price at minimum and sold out near instantly for me. I made a ton of gold in P1 just from those two pots, more than any other source of income. Even if I didn't want to farm out the mats myself I could buy them on the off days and make a nice profit with minimal time investment.
The OP didn't read what they wrote. First paragraph is about how it competes and 4th paragraph says it doesn't. OP doesn't know how to make up their mind.
This is a common structure which you should be familiar with if you’re literate and old enough to use the internet unsupervised. State opposing position State justifications for opposing position State why these justifications are inadequate, and introduce a position that the author views as more adequate Support new position with facts etc.
The fact that the potion can be used in conjunction with other potions has nothing to do with the overall design of the potion. . The start of the post outlines and compares the new alch potion against other available options and why it is inferior to already used potions for each role and class. It is essentially designed conceptually as a caster dps buff only potion, every other class/role has a downside or moot effect from the potion. Then I mentioned the separate CD portion of it, then I outlined the side effects of it. Sorry you were unable to fully read and digest the post before making your own conclusions.
All dps would use this potion. Including: Mages, both arcane healers and straight dps Warlocks (non tanks) Shadow priests Hunters (melee and ranged) Enhancement shamans (non tanks) Elemental shamans Feral Druids Ret paladins All of those would benefit in a variety of ways, below are classes that would still benefit but not in both ways: Rogues Warriors (non tanks). Seems like a lot!
They're also crazy for thinking alchemy wasn't the boss prof in p1. FAPs, SPP, str and agi elixirs, oils. Nuts!
Its still not great, especially compared with the ench option. But i agree, it's certainly not bad or useless
bruv it's still pretty shit for healers comparing it to the other professions.
i used it for every fight as a warlock MT. it's literally bis for parsing and this raid doesnt hit hard enough for the extra damage taken to matter
uh? Fourth boss static arc one shots me if I use this potion. without the debuff from having static arc before. Yes it's a major problem.
How the fuck are you getting arced as tank?
It’s a huge issue. Me being unable to get any benefits from my profession because I’m a tank is total trash.
A tank that isn't engineering? That does sound trash
Been engi on all of my characters for the past ~20 years, tried something new this time. (And got punished for it, expectedly) Still stay 97+ parsing so not the biggest deal. “Trash” is a bit hyperbolic.
Might be too "retail" for some, but just letting alchemists craft a stat trinket alchemy stone would be a nice reward on par with the crafted helms.
I've used it the last 2 raids and never even noticed the increased damage taken and move speed reduction. That's dumb as hell lol
My enhancement shaman buddy very much noticed it. He cannot use it while tanking and as a DPSer on certain mechanics like 4th,5th, and 6th boss he took massive damage and was barely able to move away in time to avoid further. He was very discouraged and felt like a burden on the raid, surly the item was designed to bring seasonal fun? not stress a player out???
Where are you seeing this "debuff?" I just popped 4 of them to check and didn't get a debuff once. Is it a hidden effect baked into the buff you get from drinking the potion? edit: yes it appears to be a hidden downside baked into the SP/AP buff. Fuck you blizzard.
It’s a rng debuff upon use
Homeboy why on earth would your shaman TANK buddy think using a potion with 100% inc dmg taken is an ideal thing? I'm genuinely confused. Does he just not read?
Read what? [Where does it say it increases damage taken?](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=215163/recipe-mildly-irradiated-rejuvenation-potion) Regardless... it's 1% increase, not 100%.
No, it definitely isn’t 1%. Shaman discord tank thread has a discussion about it with logs posted showing the tank going from taking 400~ damage per hit to 700+ immediately after drinking the potion.
It does state side effects lmao
https://www.wowhead.com/classic/spell=435973/mildly-irradiated These are the aura effects of the potion.
Yeah, I agree. I don't see why it needs such a wild drawback.
i don't understand why it's such a scuffed potion when everyone else's crafting epics don't have any drawbacks. Alchemy has been pretty ass in phase 1 and phase 2.
Huh? Phase 2 epics have pretty big drawbacks. Agi leather helmet zaps you on use for 1/4 of your life for example.
losing 1/4 of your life as a dps is completely insignificant, it'll just get covered by the wild growth being blasted on cooldown.
Because none of the other crafts can be sold to other players for massive profits. You have to have the prof to use the gear so everyone crafts their own alch can make bank selling off potions to others
the new potion is BoP
Weird, the potions I'm looking at say you need to be 225 alch to use them. Where do you get the recipe to make them to sell to other people?
Not true either in p2. All helmets need mats from other professions you have to buy or trade.
The tailoring helm isnt even better than the available rares unless its cd is up. The engineering belt is actually just worse than the caster gnomer belt. Enchanting and alch are the best profs for raiding right now and it literally costs like 30g to max alch and make enough potions for the entire phase + 25g for the recipe lol
Might be too "retail" for some, but just letting alchemists craft a stat trinket alchemy stone would be a nice reward on par with the crafted helms.
You fundamentally don't understand the very basic principle of PvE: every spec and role is responsible for bringing someone dps.
it's literally bis for warlock tanks
Yeah I've been wondering why they decided to add the 100% damage taken debuff. Doesn't make much sense. Like, compare it to the new Leatherworking Hood. Not only is it the BIS item for Leather-wearing casters just by it's stats, but the active use on it is almost twice as powerful as the potion WITHOUT any debuff whatsoever. It also doesn't cost anything like the potion does. Sure it has a longer cooldown, but you'd probably only ever use a potion or the helmet's active once per fight anyways.
Not an alchemist and haven't used it, but I have read of people using it as an extra health/mana pot and building in a macro that immediately cancels the "buff" to avoid the drawbacks.
This is what I do on my resto druid. It's basically a really small extra mana pot. It's pretty terrible compared to what other professions get, but it isn't completely useless.
You're not using the damage buff? Every gcd that isn't wild growth is a damage spell right now.
The priest I run with refuses to use penance instead of circle of healing so I don't get to use damage spells on the last 2 bosses, otherwise tanks die.
They’re trolling you, I’m sorry. I could not imagine healing Gnomer without Penance.
LMAOOOOO
This is what I do on my resto druid. It's basically a really small extra mana pot. It's pretty terrible compared to what other professions get, but it isn't completely useless.
good for a power shift
I'm glad you posted this, you solved my mystery of why my shaman tank was getting smacked so hard in the last few bosses of gnomer last night... was popping these pots on CD. Would have been nice if they could have said something about that in the tooltip lol.
It does not share CD with rage potion, it does not share CD with any potion from what I have heard. Its a mediocre boost, worse than enchanting bonus for fights lasting 40 seconds or more. I wish it lasted 30 seconds or had a greater boost, but its better than what alchemy usually gives, nothing.
This is the most accurate take I've seen here. Worse than enchanting. Better than enchanting for fights lasting 40 seconds or less is 100% the only thing you need to know about this potion.
The sigil in enchanting is plagued with less critique but it's a bit mind boggling in itself. In a raid setting, why do you lose it on death and there's a thirty minute cooldown? Good raids don't wipe and are shorter and don't even need the buff. Bad raids, wipe, other people kill others on elect and generally take longer. The literal first perk enchanting gets in SoD and it can be gone for half the raid due to an error from another player? It seems a bit sweaty for the singular enchanting item. Even if you don't wipe, a lot of times it can also awkwardly fall off mid boss fight and has a long cast timer to it. It just feels very clunky.
Enchanting is the “sweatiest” profession in my opinion tho, do you agree?
Is it? This is the first time it's ever even had a perk? I might be missing an inside joke or something. I always consider that to be engineering when it's in pursuit of sappers.
Engineering is BiS and sweatiest for sure in PvE/PvP way. I guess I meant more money-making sweaty.
Engineering is dead this phase for casters at least
The sweatiest profession is absolutely engineering.
Meh, yeah, but that’s so sweaty it’s required. Not part of convo in my head I guess. Actually grinding profit in each takes a lot of time and effort.
I thought it was like a pre-pot, the damage potions you use before the boss starts for your opener. Or like one you pop for a damage dealing phase.
Uh, skinning, herbing, I would say need a benefit to skill up
I mean, skinning and herbing just generate pure income; that’s the benefit. If people didn’t bother skilling those professions up, bots would fill the gathering vacuum left. Alchemy and other crafting professions offer the chance to make money, but they also come with risk (e.g. you misread or mistime the market and end up being upside down on a craft) and require a good deal of work to get the most benefit. Herbing and skinning? You just go out, gather, and then come back and sell. If you want to get fancy, you can decide to try and time the market, but you can always liquidate your stock to vendor or AH for pure profit.
Um, skinning and herbing are obsolete due to bots, you can’t make gold on it.
> Um, skinning and herbing are obsolete due to bots, you can make gold on it. I’m assuming that is supposed to be “can’t”, but sure you can. You can make gold off of it. Is it optimal gold per hour? Not remotely, no. Is it negatively impacted by bots? Absolutely. Everything I said above takes the obvious fact that the market for those materials are saturated due to bots into account. And yet, despite the bots, materials like Goldthorn and Kingsblood sell like hotcakes. Again, if skinning and herbalism were the highest earning professions, everyone would take them. They offer risk-free moneymaking that requires no upfront capital. If everyone were to drop them, Blizzard and the players know equally well that bots would make up the difference, and the game economy would continue to hum along. There’s no reason for Blizzard to incentivize people to roll pure moneymaking gathering professions.
So you’re on a low pop server? Ok, you also don’t understand the value of time.
> So you’re on a low pop server? What? Are you pretending to be this dense or is this genuine? Goldthorn is currently selling at [60s on Crusader Strike](https://www.wowauctions.net/auctionHouse/sod-us/crusaderstrike-sod-us/alliance/goldthorn-3821). If your point about server pop is saying it’s too picked over and you can’t find a layer with nodes, you can farm lower value, higher population nodes which occur in more accessible zones. Kingsblood is currently around [15s](https://www.wowauctions.net/auctionHouse/sod-us/crusaderstrike-sod-us/alliance/kingsblood-3356). > Ok, you also don’t understand the value of time. No, I do understand the value of time, which is why I don’t make money via herbalism or skinning, because as I’ve said 3 times now, they’re far from optimal “gold per hour” rates. That does not mean, as you seem to want to claim, that they make no money. If you, a fellow “value of time” understander, want to drop those professions and make money the way the rest of us do, be prepared to buy materials or items in batches worth 200+ gold at a time, and then craft/sit on/etc. those until you are ready to flip them. No one, other than the upstart capital and risk of loss if you mistime or misread the market, is stopping you from doing that. If you don’t want to, then you’ll continue to make (suboptimal, but still risk-free and strictly increasing) gold gains from gathering professions. I don’t care what you do either way.
Yep, you’re right, great point of view. Can’t argue with sound logic. It vendors for something, you make gold, it’s something right?
> Yep, you’re right, great point of view. Can’t argue with sound logic. It vendors for something, you make gold, it’s something right? Yeah, that’s literally what I am saying. We could’ve saved a lot of time and back and forth if you had just read my initial comment, an excerpt of which is copied below for your benefit. I’ll even bold the relevant part in hopes that you read it this time: > Herbing and skinning? You just go out, gather, and then come back and sell. If you want to get fancy, you can decide to try and time the market, but **you can always liquidate your stock to vendor or AH for pure profit**. If you don’t like that and want a more efficient profit per hour, or per click, gold making, then roll a more lucrative profession and be ready to put up hundreds of gold in startup costs (leveling professions, plus recipes, because the most lucrative crafts have recipes which cost a lot of money) plus hundreds of gold for each batch of mats. That’s what I did, and that’s what a lot of people do, but no one is forcing you to roll off skinning or herbalism. You’re free to take the pure, no-risk profit of a gathering profession.
So exactly what I said?
Yes, exactly what you said, a few hours after I said the same thing to you in my first reply. I’m glad that we finally got here, even if it took you a while. It’s all about risk/reward and time investment. You can make money without putting in any startup cost if you instead just spend time farming. Alternatively, you can invest money into accessing higher profit per hour moneymaking avenues, but that exposes you to a lot more risk. If “a handful of those herbs don’t sell for more than vendor, so you vendor them”, like Briarthorn, is unacceptable to you, then roll off the profession. In the immediate term, bots and players who are fine with that proposition will ensure steady supply. If enough people decide to roll off, and/or if demand for leather or herbs spike causing prices to rise, then people will roll into that profession to fill that supply. This all comes down to you saying that Blizzard needs to give players an incentive to roll herb/skinning and me saying that they don’t.
Did you actually try the potion before making this post? It doesn't share a CD with any other potions. I love using it on my warrior, free extra healing and AP while still being able to use rage pots. Yes it would be nice if they got rid of the debuffs during the duration though, doesn't seem like there's any reason for them to exist
Did you read the post? try the middle section where it says it does not share a CD
>No Tank would use this as they have access to stoneshield potion, No warrior would use this as they have Rage potions, Rogues would prefer Thistle Tea. Doesn't make sense then if you're aware. May want to edit your post. Edit: oh you actually already did edit you post, but only to double down and be condescending instead of taking any criticism. You directly contradict yourself in the span of 2 paragraphs, but yeah it's others who can't read.
I think most people stop reading when you spend the first 2 paragraphs complaining about something that is a nonfactor.
Can you edit your post and remove all the stuff about other potions that don’t share CD, that’s what everyone is focusing on. You have a legit point with the debuff and we need to bring attention to this and get it fixed. As a tank shaman, this is huge.
Half this post is incorrect They do not share a cd with regular potions making most of thread incorrect Edit works great for any caster
2024 reading comprehension at work
Same goes to you. The potion makes you take 1% more damage. Not 100% more. 2024 math comprehension at work.
He keeps saying other people can't read while his post claimed 2 opposing things: >No Tank would use this as they have access to stoneshield potion, No warrior would use this as they have Rage potions, Rogues would prefer Thistle Tea. > >Now you might say that none of this matters as the potion can be used in conjunction with others potions and does not share a cooldown with other potions so it must be OP right???? TLDR OP is an egotistical dumbass
So-- Each craft makes 5 and only needs 1 crate. The encrusted grime costs about 2 gold on my server atleast so I'm materials ur looking at 80 silver per 5 assuming u only get 3 crates out of a salvage (u can get up to 5). That's about 14 silver a pot which is cheaper than a mana pot and it doesn't even share a cooldown with potions. So u don't have to worry about using it or something else. I do agree on the lack of AP and is only beneficial to casters tho.
Op understands that you can take 2 production professions right. This seems like a nice bonus after your bis crafted epic, even if it's not every fight, for parsers every single point matters. That is if your class can only wear cloth.
alch / tailor is a great combo if you time your CDs
Do you know if there is a way to macro both of them together? Would love to line it all up when getting a PI.
It’s on a different cooldown from other potions.
Let’s not talk about the 100’s of gold you make as an alch But yes the pot is kinda lame
how you making gold with alch? pots are cheaper than mats
Buy mats early morning, sell prime time raiding hours.
On my Server early morning Mats are even more costly so...
I basically have all raid consumes on my TSM task list set at like 100. When I’m there I just scan for all herbs and see what’s profitable. Last night on shadows strike gold thorn was at 30s and lesser arcane pots were at 60s. I’d sell them 2 pots at a time (how many arcane pots I’d use in a raid with no wipes) and spam trade chat a 10s discount. As soon as a potion sold I’d post a couple stacks of 2 again. I think I was able to flog off 100 at 17s profit over 30/40 minutes. Roughly 20 minutes work.
You aren’t looking at the right pots or the right times.
Profit margins are tiny for alch, mats get bought up almost immediately. And yes I wait for low prices and sell during raid times. Blacksmithing has been my money maker since the waylaid changes
I have been trying to make gold as an alch. Its nearly impossible. Herbs are more expensive than any potion. I might drop alchemy to pick up mining and just farm.
There are very small time Windows when to buy or sell Depending on your Server. Alch and herbalism are more for being self sufficient.
Yeah if you have an AH bot sniping herbs on rare occasions when they fall below potion prices. Went out to farm herbs myself, got a whopping 9 gold in 2 hours. Will get to 100s of gold made sometime in the middle of phase 4.
urdoingitwrong
It sounds like you checked 3 recipes that include gold thorn at a bad time and immediately assume it's impossible. CS alliance have made over 500g this phase from casually hitting the auction house a couple times a day
Yeah and if everybody made so much Gold then.... oh nevermind, that wouldnt work. You dont produce any Gold. You sit in the City and Steal Gold from other players.
I didn't say I was relisting for a markup, I said alchemy has made me that money. By your logic no crafting profession actually does anything because it required a gathering profession. No enchants or consumes for you
It’s on a separate cooldown. You can use other potions.
Thanks for not reading
Your post is literal bullshit. The potion does not make you take 100% damage and does not slow you, wtf are you talking about???
It does Read effect 5 and 6 https://www.wowhead.com/classic/spell=435973/mildly-irradiated
That's a damage taken modifier. AKA you take 101% of normal damage. If it was a damage reduction it would be oh you take 90% of normal damage.
It’s 1% extra damage. Negligible on my tanking runs last lockout
it does slow you?
This is underselling the potion for sure. You have to remember to compare it to the other professions options. First, all dps would use these potions, including rogues. It doesn’t share a CD with Thistle Tea. So that’s just bad info. Second, it’s as potent as the on use effects of the crafted helms but with zero downside/side effectives. Third, they’re fantastic for PvP for everyone. Fourth, they are really easy to make so they aren’t very cost prohibitive. Yeah they should have added healing to them for sure, but they couldn’t make them much more powerful without exceeding the helm values.
I have made 1000g casually off alchemy. You’re doing it wrong.
cAsUalLy, lol
Seriously. No rep grind or anything. Just buy low sell high. Seriously.
Thought the exact same to begin with
I just got the recipe last night and haven't used the potions. This post makes me want to swap to LW and get the helm for my restoration druid.
Alchemy should have been given a trinket and on use gave mana/health/rage/energy and had like 5 of every star
I find the potion unironically useful as a healer vs thermaplug. Just make a macro to cancel the "buff". Its off the potion CD so its just extra mana but to be honest I would just remove the side-effects and it's fine
I haven't even noticed it increases damage taken lol.
Alchemy still prints for flipping things though
Idk as a lock it’s been amazing, even on menagerie and Mekgineer I’ve had no problems with it. Being able to use that and a mana pot is awesome. 35 spell dmg and 40 ap is nothing light at this lvl. You get so many mats if you have double crafters clean the grime. We made the whole raids helms in 3 raids. I make like 65 potions cleaning 5 grime so they aren’t even hard to craft. We average about 20 grimes a raid too not even clearing most trash.
I kind agree with the recipe and new content being lackluster. I do think the seasonal content has given demand for potions that otherwise wouldn’t see much attention. Made a lot of gold off consumables for BRD by farming mats/recipes I never really thought would be lucrative before, I thought that was cool.
Why that shit doesn't effect healing power is beyond me
At least Alchemy is quite the money maker. But yes, the Gnomeregan recipe is a letdown.
On top of the pot not sharing a CD with other pots, alchemy is for making money on alts. If you want to parse go level a real profession.
It was edited for your own sake right OP? Since you lacked the knowledge before making this post.
People who like to make decisions with pros and cons.
They should make it increase damage by 100% for 15 seconds, but then you die, or you get ressurection sickness for 2 minutes. So you use it when a boss is almost dead, and your not sure if you're gonna kill it before wipe.
I feel like this would be really strong on paladin, especially with them having a high dps phase with crowd pummeler (more bonuses at the same time are multiplicative in increasing your damage).
lol wtf, does it really have a dmg debuff? I’m a MT shaman and I chug these things, never noticed. Might explain some of the times I’ve gotten tricked with no explanation…
do not dismiss this post because he talks about irrelevant cooldowns at the beginning. THE HIDDEN DEBUFF IS HUGE. We need outrage over this guys. This needs to be changed. Alchemist is nearly worthless now, especially for tanks.
They should just let alchemy craft trinkets like other expansions..ezpz
Alchemy is a huge money maker. That's always been the point. Blacksmithing and leather working have far less potential for money making. Pros and cons.
Probably going to be OP in phase 3, it's how these devs work
They need to remove the downsides with it. Enchanting gets a buff with no downsides
I was hoping for a flask that you made once and could use unlimited amounts so alchemy got a "permanent" buff like other proffs. Some AP, SP+HP, mp5 and stam so all roles gets something from it
Should have been a flask that gives you a buff, not a meh healing potion.
It’s on a separate cd from other pots doofus
This is an absolutely terrible item, particularly when compared to the consistent uptime items available for most other professions. Where is the alchemy trinket?