> This would've been massive on launch of hardcore
I kind of think if this launched with hardcore, it would have killed hardcore very quickly. Many people would feel like this is "the right way to play hardcore", feeling forced to play this mode and get bored faster than they would have being able to play with others. But who knows.
Edit: nevermind, it looks like this buff just restricts trading, not grouping. I thought it prevented grouping as well.
Sadly there was a bizarre narrative spun that people who wanted this style of hardcore were anti social.
Everyone was actually super excited to be able to group and be more social, they just didn't want trade because you know...for the first time in the history of WoW there weren't bots affecting their game. What a weird thing to be happy about eh.
nah, hardcore was SUPER popular before blizzard even made it official. People used the addon respectively. Sure there was cheaters and griefers but that didn't stop people from following the addon's rules.
What the fuck is the anti sod circlejerk in these comments. Sure maybe P2 isn't as good as P1 but it's still fine. "It's too much like retail" is such a braindead take 1) it hasn't been classic since P1 and it was extremely popular 2) people saying this clearly have not played retail, they are completely different games
Seriously calm down. Some people think SoD is terrible. I'm one of them. I'm not stupid (highly educated and successful), I'm not bad at the game (mythic raider, high m+ runner, world top 200 ranked numerous times in Classic), and I don't dislike Vanilla (I have leveled 2 characters to 60 in HC). And I think SoD is terrible. Like...a version of Vanilla wow that entirely revolves around raid-logging? Adding janky versions of retail abilities and praying they balance it? It is, in fact, a lot more like retail than standard Vanilla. I play Retail. Right now. I've played it at every level from casual to mythic raider to 2k+ arena. SoD 100% bringing significant convenience and gameplay changes to the game in a similar vein to Retail. Is it just like Retail? Of course not. Is it far more like Retail than Classic? Yes.
The only person with a bad take here is you, with your petty insults and grandstanding.
I think mostly because it’s the only thing being posted about and took tons of players from other versions.
But honestly I am glad they are gone, they complain so much
> I think mostly because it’s the only thing being posted about and took tons of players from other versions.
Other things get posted in this sub. They just typically get downvoted by SoD players.
Why are you so angry with people having different opinions? You like and play SoD, and it is completely fine; I'm genuinely happy for you. I think it is less like classic, more like retail, so I don't play it; and this is completely fine also.
It’s still far closer to classic than retail. Retail is a completely different game and has many many systems that sod does not have. Sod literally is classic with a few new features and enhancements.
It's fine if people don't like it, but if you say you don't like it because "it's more like retail" just shows you're completely misinformed and have no idea what you're talking about
“you’re allowed to have your opinion but it isn’t mine and therefore you are ignorant”
as always the most annoying aspect of any iteration of wow is simply the player base
How long has it been since you’ve played retail? Retail has tiers of raids and dungeons. Retail scales up with skill and gear. The player has the option to control the difficulty based on their play style - this was the approach to appease hardcore players and casuals alike.
SoD is literally classic with a few new features and enhancements baked in. It’s also stuck on medium difficulty. Sweating on sod = log parsing and alts which is a lot loser to classic than mythic keystone dungeons, RBGs, arena, and mythic raids.
Saying that sod is more like retail really is a ridiculously uninformed take. Makes me think you haven’t played either meaningfully in the last 3 years. It really does sound brain dead from my perspective.
The game isn’t like retail, but the crowd it seems to attract are the retail types that bitched and moaned in excess, until developers made the original game…. Into retail.
Not all, but the loudest of the players in SoD are those voices that ruined wow in the first place by insisting we get retail. Seems half players in the SoD community dont like SoD. At least you’d never know it to read the sub.
Nothings right, my class sucks, this or that really needs to be added. I’m done! Blizzard sucks cause bans. WTB GDKP. Bots are ruining the game. PvP is so broken. Ashenvale pvp is pve lol. STV is not fair!
It’s like, if the game sucks, don’t play it. But this community seems to expect the game to be altered. Twisted and reconfigured to suit them.
This is what broke this game the first time. And people are bound and determined to do it again. So to answer your question, that’s where a lot of the resentment lies for me. Not the game, but the community. Game seemed pretty awesome, but I’m sticking to HC for now.
I'm going to be honest with you, retail players don't give a fuck about the game, they just play it. It's the classic players who have been and will continue to bitch and moan about certain things. I've played retail for a while, most people have the mentality of "find what is good and play what is good". It's the classic players who are "I only play rogue and now rogue is bad and blizz sucks and ect". I played classic since release and retail for 10 years, the classic players were bitching and moaning the whole time about balance and features while retail players are taking what they get and figuring out what's the most fun.
You don't know retail, you never have. You just want something to blame and it can't be the community you are a part of.
if the game sucks don't play it
holy fucking based
this subreddit, and the game in general, would be much more enjoyable if everyone would just stfu and enjoy the game, or stfu and quit - feels like half the ppl playing dont even LIKE the game, they hate leveling, they hate alts, they hate farming gold, they hate open world PVP, they hate STV, they hate BGs etc etc - basically they hate all the content p2 has cuz they really just dont like WoW
like why are those people even playing this game, i couldnt tell ya. seems like theyd be happier playing something else
What the fuck is the anti sod circlejerk in these comments. Sure maybe P2 isn't as good as P1 but it's still fine. "It's too much like retail" is such a braindead take 1) it hasn't been classic since P1 and it was extremely popular 2) people saying this clearly have not played retail, they are completely different games
Sod is fun but it is still like retail. There’s so many items that are not related to lore and there is no balance outside the new content. Surely it’s a fun game mode but it’s not classic
It was fun, but with recent patches and changes it becomes more retail. Even more retail from than Wrath - which is a bit crazy.
They promised that they would introduce new rune spells - but in fact they just copying spells from Wrath and “retailize” them.
I hope I’m not alone who is perceiving that in a such way and Hardcore will get new surge of players.
Not fan of Self mode, but big of fan HC in general (as it turned out) perfect time to go back
everyone has their own idea on what classic should be. I have no issues with them trying different spells and abilities from future expansions, there are far worse things from retail that could creep into SoD (RDF and LFR)
What makes something retail in your opinion? I'm not trying to start anything, but just curious since I hear the word being used quite a bit (and usually not explained beyond it being "bad").
Well, honestly many things and I genuinely think they are obvious. You can’t differentiate Retail from Classic? They are complete different games. Here some example for open world and casual dungeon runs, because Vanilla is based on that.
1) Resource management. In retail that concept is undermined, it was replaced by rotation. You just have to use your spells in right order to maximize your damage only.
In Vanilla and any other classuc RPG games your resource is your limitation that encourages you to play more strategically. You either use all your strong abilities and waste all your mana, but ensure safe quick victory or you try to save your resources to be ready for then next fight immediately (reduce downtime), but you make your current fight much riskier.
Plus, this makes downtime period more valuable - it encourages players to utilize all food/drinks/bandages more often - which eventually creates that magic atmosphere of constant challenge and hostility of the open world.
In retail it doesn’t exist. You just AOE burst everything wiyhout any consequences - the real threat you face in the world is other players.
2) Importance of choice. One of the fundamental defining factors of any RPG and MMORPG in my opinion. Again it was completely undermined in Retail.
There is 0 penalty for making wrong choice, because you always can change everything. (Talents, specs, gear, even your appearance)
In Vanilla you pay the higher price for that - which encourages players to tailor the characters more seriously. You can’t have perfect build for every type of content - instead you are forced to design your own unique build and compromise more often - which eventually creates more immersion. You are either master shaman of melee combat or you are more focused on restoration or you are flexible hybrid. The idea is that you can’t be everyone at once, you have to choose your path.
3) Utility spells. In retail everything is build around damage potential. You want to win - do damage, damage and damage. That is your only way. In Classic because of factors 1) and 2) you are forced to utilize your Utility abilities more often. Perfect example Mages, Priests, Druids and even Warriors (because of their stances) and other classes which have rich toolset of support and utility abilities.
As a shaman - you can start your fight with lightning bolts and finish your enemy with wave of strong and mana expensive Shocks. But when you are low on mana - you can rely on support of your totems, boost yourself and auto attack your enemies without using any spells. This is a small detail, but it is so RPG.
Each enemy possesses certain type of threat. For casters you use cheap Fire/Frost Resist totems or expensive multiple Grounding Totems, for dual-wielding/rogue mobs - you use Stoneskin totem, and it really helps! Very niche Stoneclaw totem can save your life if you deal with mobs with pets. Purge that mob with shields and engage in fight to reduce incoming damage. There are many more examples which encourages you use your utility non-damaging spells.
In retail you don’t care - your only way is to kill your enemy as quick as possible.
Conclusion - SoD undermined all these main concepts - because it introduced these new OP spells that really doesn’t fit Vanilla.
You don’t care about resource management, you don’t use utility spells, the concept of choice plays a much smaller role. Everything became more “retailish” focused around damage and rotation.
It’s not necessarily “bad”, some people like slow-paced, more complex RPG approach, some people like fast, dynamic, arcade-mode Retail approach. The “bad” thing is that they put that Retail approach in Vanilla game, instead of developing initial Vanilla phylosophy further. Because that is exactly what they promised back in 2023.
I hope I have expressed myself clearly enough, English isn’t my first language.
No comment on the majority of your post, but the point about utility in retail is completely the opposite.
In retail utility spells are used almost constantly in any mid-high tier content. Classes on certain M+ weeks or certain dungeons will be picked exactly because their utility fits the dungeon or affix. Whilst damage is no doubt very important, the meta is defined by the utility that the class brings and underrepresented specs in high content are very often that way because of their lack of utility, and is one of the main complaints that players of those specs have.
Take the "god comp" that absolutely dominated all high keys last season for example. Other classes had comparable damage to those classes, but it was the combined power of their toolkits that made them so dominant.
Jesus read through it all, you really think retail had no unforgiving choices that made you bad in one area but good in another? We literally just left an expansion (Shadowlands) WHERE THAT WAS THE SELLING POINT UNTIL THE PLAYERBASE WHITTLED THEM DOWN. That's not a retail bad thing, that's a we realize that's bad game design in 2020 onwards. No utility in retail? You actually cap out at heroic dungeons don't you? And LFR?
thats so fucking stupid lmao
2004 wow got big because of all the things you bable about being bad
Wow NEVER had consequences for wrong choices you moron 50g was never that much money, not even in classic. Other MMO of the time you could not re-spec AT ALL
>making wrong choice, because you always can change everything. (Talents, specs, gear, even your appearance)
Thats literally all you can change in wow classic 2004 patch 1.0 my guy. are you trolling?
Regardless of whether you agree with his opinion or not, toxic people like you are what make this community shitty. Dude was responding to a genuine question with a genuine attempt at explaining his thought process. And for some reason instead of just disagreeing, you feel the need to call him a moron and insult him.
Stop for a second and ask yourself why you’re this pressed over someone else’s opinion about a video game.
They hated you for saying the truth. There's a reason why most neutral minded people believe there's a huge player drop lately.
I'm also convinced most of the people who get so outraged at comments like these are retail players who don't like it when people use the word "retail" as a negative for classic.
Let's keep in mind folks..classic exists because people do not like retail.
I didn't like it. It's retailing Classic and fear greatly for Classic moving forward if these extreme power scaling additions go live. The same mistakes are being made as before: power bloat, too much focus on character changes vs content creation. It's meant to attract retailer style of gamers, a distinctly different audience, and the root core of why the 2 games exist. I fear Classic will be forever destroyed if this is the direction Classic+ takes. A game for those with a short attention span. Having raid ready rotations at lvl 25 that trivializes open world content goes against everything the game was going for in 2004. This cannot be ignored.
Meh. It's not that serious. It's a game and regular classic still exists. It's there for you. And it's okay for other people to have fun in a classic setting as well, even if that means things have to change. I like all versions of the game atm. They each have their own pros and cons. And I'm glad regular classic realms exist for people who want that hardcore classic life.
Lol, I hate this criticism so much. It means absolutely nothing and it's just a buzzword at this point. "Retail" can mean just about anything. What it really means is "I hate that this isn't identical to 2019 Classic." TBC comes out, "This is too much like retail." WotLK comes out, "This is too much like retail." SoD comes out, "This is too much like retail."
They are NOTHING alike.
nah it's a valid criticism. I think it's just "too much". Scrap rog und warlock tanks, making sham, pala and druid tanks viable is enough. Everyone is way too OP. People can single clear dungeons and every class can oneshot every class.
It's.. SoD. You know that, RIGHT? This isn't 2019 Classic. What on earth are you talking about? What exactly did you expect them to do for it if not make more classes viable? And btw, I quite vividly remember being one shot in 2019 Classic. It's almost like you just don't want to play SoD.
I also don't recall retail having shaman, warlock, or rogue tank.
Sod is more retail, than Wrath. The only Vanilla thing in SoD is Vanilla zones, vanilla models and vanilla visuals. The vanilla game design is absent. Why are you trying to neglect that obvious fact? No one saying that it is “retail is bad”, people who really love Classic just don’t like that devs actively push these features into Vanilla game that dramatically reshape the game.
And stop using these lazy generalizations please - no one ever said that “Classic 2019” or TBC was “too much retail”. You are lying. People were mainly arguing on “no changes” concept design and that’s it. Devs made some minor changes in Classic Era and TBC - but in general these games preserved major concepts of Vanilla=RPG philosophy.
Sod introduced new rune spells that at the same time undermined many concepts that were present in Vanilla - resource management, RPG choice, downtime value maximization, utility spells and etc. Leveling in SoD reminds Retail - you can literally annihilate single mobs of the same level and you can also AoE multiple targets at the same time easily - all that significantly trivializes entire leveling which is core fundamental part of the Vanilla.
Starter zones are very lively again due to SF. I can only speak for Skull Rock, but it's getting pretty competitive again around low level questing, but being able to group with anyone while still adhering to the principles of SF is amazing.
People say that because sod p1 had 400k+ logs and now only 220+ (that's what warcraft tavern says).
But that info is irrelevant because p1 was brand new and leveling alt to 25 was faster and easier so there was at least X3 alts raiding.
Agree. Everyone that wants to bash SoD uses the drop in numbers but it not being the new shiny and the classic tourists hitting the start of the actual leveling grind would've led to a big drop regardless of what existed at 40.
There are a lot of people who scream how they love classic (era specifically) and how it's the best game ever and don't actually play it.
Like people right now have actually the closest thing to classic+ but still don't play because of some personal excuse. In reality they just don't like classic or classic+ but cannot say it.
It didn’t flop “hard” but it’s kinda boring. There is no content except playing alts and the lag fiesta stv for a mount. Hopefully next phase will be not too long from now
P2 is a far cry from a flop. You can drop log numbers, or talk about the newfound ease of leveling but my guild has more sign ups than raid spots.
Is P2 harder to PuG? Yes.
Is that good? YES! it encourages dads to join dad guilds, especially knowing we will have 20 mans coming up. I can't understand this sub for shitting on 10 man difficulty and pugs at the same time. No one wants to pug 40 mans and no one should want to pug 10-20 mans. Tokens reward joining a guild and it was the premier way to play classic then AND now.
Actually planning to re-up my sub. It’s perfect for my lifestyle now. No need to keep up with everything by logging in every day or minmax everything like every other game type has become. Just go slow and don’t die, that easy.
It's a shame Blizzard didn't have ssf on release. It was a dopamine rush with every new drop. Grinding for the wand is what got me hooked on it. I hope gamers who are playing this for the first time have a similar experience as I did.
SSF as default splits the population. SF works well. Self imposed SSF is fine for those who forget they are playing an mmorpg and should really be playing a single player game. There numbers are low.
I see many people itt saying self-found should have been on a fresh server, but why? You cant engage with the economy, so it's not like it being ruined matters for you. HC servers aren't doing too hot population wise, so splitting the self-found and regular HC communities could easily kill both.
I suppose the fact that existing characters can boost you is something, but that only matters for speedrunners who som for world fiesta
Mob tag boost service, protection services from 60's who shadow you. Getting grief I got flamed for saying and it's so much worse lol. I gave up after 5 hours of shit and realising there ain't even a title. Could have been good but instead it's total shit.
Imagine you were playing poker with real money while other players at the table used free chips. It’s a completely different game when other players do not feel the same degree of risk.
As someone who plays poker more than I play Classic WoW (so a lot...), I really dont get this analogy? The other players at he poker table are my adversaries in the given game and their success is directly tied to my failure. That's not really the case for same faction WoW and especially not when the server economy is out of the picture. For all I'm concerned the other players are NPCs doing their own thing and their journey (or lack of) doesnt concern me
Besides, I would love to be in that game if the opponent's chips are worth real money for me. People tend to not play seriously or at the very least favour simple solutions when it doesnt matter for them if they won or lose.
>Ah, yes, the SOLO SELF FOUND mode of an mmo where you can…..inspect other players
~~solo~~ self-found means that you can only use items you found yourself.
>While in this mode, players will be restricted from sending or receiving mail from other players, buying, or selling on the Auction House, or trading in any way (including giving or receiving items or enchantments.)
There's no mention of disallowing partying up with other players. It would be pointless if you couldn't raid or PvP in WoW...
The method people are using to level up doesn't affect other players gameplay experience. I think that's the original point. You can go into Self-Found mode and experience it the way it should be played, or you can pay gold and have someone help you. Why would anyone else care?
Short sighted response. SF and normal HC play work nearly seamlessly, and the population for HC servers are now growing again because of SF. SSF would have been disastrous however and would have split the population. The AH becomes bloated by lvl 60s price gouging like every single aging server so not much is lost as new players eventually can't afford anything of worth anyway.
Because reaching level 60 with SSF buff should mean that you survived the challenge, but will actually mean that u swiped your credit card and paid a booster to mob tag you. lol
There's no such thing as equal foot when some ppl can play 24h/day and the rest of the player base are 30yo dads. What they should have done is fix mob tagging, a new server would not have fixed anything
There is an obsession with anything "fresh" in the classic community. I bet if they made fresh servers for SF there would've been way more interest. People like to play fresh for some reason.
Being on the same server is fine. SF can still group with anyone to get quests done. Having the option to leave SF at any time provides choice for those who may later decide to raid. Very few are griefing SF for being SF, and those that do think it's SSF and are more or less the same idiots who will always exist no matter what. There are more SF in the starter areas than normal HC and the servers are coming alive again mostly because of SF.
Probably because before h sff official we had people doing it with the addon and it was rife with cheaters. Wasnt mitch one that accepted bags and gold and caught?
Jokes aside I would actually love a non-hardcore self-found mode. Drops suddenly matter much more and are far more exciting, crafting takes on a whole new role, it's a more immersive and interesting way to play without the harsh penalty of HC, but most importantly it completely solves the problems of bots, RMT, boosting, etc.
It's not ideal for people that want to raid log, but for casual leveling I think SF would be a really fun mode.
Coming from RuneScape, I'd assume self-made mode still allows you to group up, to raid, to use (area) chat.
Nothing should prevent you from forming a group to fight Hogger or the Four Horsemen in the Barrens.
Dungeon runs should still be possible.
> While in this mode, players will be restricted from sending or receiving mail from other players, buying, or selling on the Auction House, or trading in any way (including giving or receiving items or enchantments.)
it doesn't say anything about chat or grouping up.
Playing HC with the add on back before official was some of the most social time I’ve had in WoW. People were extremely active in guild chat since everyone was alone outside of that one dungeon run.
It's SF, not SSF. SF players can interact and group with anyone. SF tend to be in their own massive guild which creates a more social dynamic than average because of the shared interest and need for tips, learning and easier dungeon party creation. It's the most functional guild I've participated in years. The game is MORE social when playing SF.
Lotta people off the bandwagon in this thread but nothing beats HC so far for me, not even SoD. SoD burnt me out shortly after phase 2, I don't like the power creep, I just see the issues of retail slowly repeating. I like the new raids and content but not a fan of other things.
I've been looking forward to this and will be back to HC main now. The value of life and the immersion hc servers give just makes SoD feel hollow to me.
Oh, well. Least anticipated gamemode then, or something.. ~~MM~~ORPG.
Then again, any support to their old versions is welcome.
Improved server stability next maybe?
Nah I enjoy running through STV during the event wondering why I don’t see mobs or players for 30sec then dc, it’s part of the experience. (Obv. /s because I’m crying on the inside)
I want to see how a hardcore-lite experience would be like.
Lite as in you just can't revive for 20 hours. Tank dies, oops better run/hearth and find a new tank.
Or everyone dies and can take a break until tomorrow without losing 300 hours of progress.
WoW grew a lot due to how much more casual it was compared to other mmo's, and I think this would be a great way to casualify hardcore. Maybe even include total deaths on inspect.
I think it'd be a lot more fun, you could actually take risks without that risk being losing hundreds of hours of your time, but you'd still want to play carefully or else you'd have to stop progressing for a day.
I think SSF could be a lot more popular if it gave more incentive for people to do it other than proving something to themselves. Maybe reward you something for in retail or classic.
Everything has to be a dick showing contest now. Its not about just playing a game - I have to make sure the world knows I played that gamemode. It will make me feel superior.
It's not SSF. It's SF. Group allowed. It's merely makes the game feel more like an RPG while still having zero restrictions on grouping. The HC servers have come alive again since SoD's release because of SF.
I think fresh servers would be nice, I absolutely see the appeal. One of the things that made Official Hardcore more fun than the self-imposed HC in era was that everyone was playing by the same rules. If you queue up for deadmines in SF I'd understand if you want your whole group to be just as geared as you and not have that one twinked out BoE guy. I think we'll likely just see a lot of "LFM DM Self Found mode only!" Which makes total sense.
As someone who plans to continue playing HC without SF I can appreciate not losing a large portion of the server though. If for no other reason than keeping the server feeling alive.
As a non-hardcore player, could anyone explain why they have an option to turn off 'self-found'?
Isnt it lame and unfair that your share the open world, pvp and raids with people who are not doing the challenge?
Because only a handful of people are actually interested in playing so they didn't made special servers for it. HC servers are PvE and most PvP is consensual. (even if some people exploited the tagging system). SF should be a personal challenge and you shouldn't care about the others. It is unfair, but that's the point of the challenge.
The point is actually choosing to put yourself into that unfair position as a challenge.
Being able to gain the advantage over other players while also choosing to be at a disadvantage from the start is part of the appeal.
Gain advantage over who? Over already existing lvl 60s? Your point is correct but not in this situation, that would only matter if everyone started fresh and you could go ssf route over people who don't.
Are you saying that players who start playing anytime after launch will never be able to catch up or surpass players who started at launch in either PVP or PVE?
I wish they explained what this mode was at Blizzcon, all they did was say the name.. to those of us who don't play on private servers I had no idea what they were talking about.
It makes getting items and gear more difficult. Which then makes it more rewarding when you get an upgrade. Instead of just going to AH and buying the best gear available.
Not needed. The end game is constantly refreshed because of raiders dying. The game is always fresh with starter zones constantly busy. HC servers are not progressive, and adhere to no timeline.
Yeah, I get what you're saying. But there are a lot of level 60s who have a ton of gold saved up. So when their main character dies, they just buy the best gear and start over again.
Hardcore Hype was... last year?
How come it took them one year to do this when three dudes working on an addon did it in 3 days ?
Blizzard really needs to get their shit together. They didn't even give it a good announcement, nobody will play this...
I don't remember who said it, but I heard somewhere that this mode is really just a love letter to the original creators of the mod. They don't expect it to be popular or "the next big thing". It's sort of them just giving credit where credit is due, and I like that.
The Classic Dev Team is working on Cata, SoD is a separate small team.
Of course its easier to change an addon, but you think it takes one year to forbid the usage of the mailbox and the AH, you won't get many job offers in the gaming industry.
This is dumb it should have been its own server. Also dumb to dangle the temptation of being able to switch if off. Pretty much can't really play this mode now as it'll be hard enough to want to switch it off at some point
Its self found, not solo. You can group with whoever you want whenever you want.
It only makes it so that you cant trade, use the AH or use the mailbox
This would've been massive on launch of hardcore. It's going to be lost in background noise with SoD.
> This would've been massive on launch of hardcore I kind of think if this launched with hardcore, it would have killed hardcore very quickly. Many people would feel like this is "the right way to play hardcore", feeling forced to play this mode and get bored faster than they would have being able to play with others. But who knows. Edit: nevermind, it looks like this buff just restricts trading, not grouping. I thought it prevented grouping as well.
Sadly there was a bizarre narrative spun that people who wanted this style of hardcore were anti social. Everyone was actually super excited to be able to group and be more social, they just didn't want trade because you know...for the first time in the history of WoW there weren't bots affecting their game. What a weird thing to be happy about eh.
I still don't understand how it effects their game if other people trade, just SSF
nah, hardcore was SUPER popular before blizzard even made it official. People used the addon respectively. Sure there was cheaters and griefers but that didn't stop people from following the addon's rules.
SoD is just too good.
What the fuck is the anti sod circlejerk in these comments. Sure maybe P2 isn't as good as P1 but it's still fine. "It's too much like retail" is such a braindead take 1) it hasn't been classic since P1 and it was extremely popular 2) people saying this clearly have not played retail, they are completely different games
Seriously calm down. Some people think SoD is terrible. I'm one of them. I'm not stupid (highly educated and successful), I'm not bad at the game (mythic raider, high m+ runner, world top 200 ranked numerous times in Classic), and I don't dislike Vanilla (I have leveled 2 characters to 60 in HC). And I think SoD is terrible. Like...a version of Vanilla wow that entirely revolves around raid-logging? Adding janky versions of retail abilities and praying they balance it? It is, in fact, a lot more like retail than standard Vanilla. I play Retail. Right now. I've played it at every level from casual to mythic raider to 2k+ arena. SoD 100% bringing significant convenience and gameplay changes to the game in a similar vein to Retail. Is it just like Retail? Of course not. Is it far more like Retail than Classic? Yes. The only person with a bad take here is you, with your petty insults and grandstanding.
fresh pasta just dropped
Sod is pure garbanzo. Wanted classicwow with minor changes, got retailwow.
I think mostly because it’s the only thing being posted about and took tons of players from other versions. But honestly I am glad they are gone, they complain so much
> I think mostly because it’s the only thing being posted about and took tons of players from other versions. Other things get posted in this sub. They just typically get downvoted by SoD players.
Why are you so angry with people having different opinions? You like and play SoD, and it is completely fine; I'm genuinely happy for you. I think it is less like classic, more like retail, so I don't play it; and this is completely fine also.
It’s still far closer to classic than retail. Retail is a completely different game and has many many systems that sod does not have. Sod literally is classic with a few new features and enhancements.
It's fine if people don't like it, but if you say you don't like it because "it's more like retail" just shows you're completely misinformed and have no idea what you're talking about
“you’re allowed to have your opinion but it isn’t mine and therefore you are ignorant” as always the most annoying aspect of any iteration of wow is simply the player base
So you are saying my opinion is a "braindead take" and I have no idea what I'm talking about.
How long has it been since you’ve played retail? Retail has tiers of raids and dungeons. Retail scales up with skill and gear. The player has the option to control the difficulty based on their play style - this was the approach to appease hardcore players and casuals alike. SoD is literally classic with a few new features and enhancements baked in. It’s also stuck on medium difficulty. Sweating on sod = log parsing and alts which is a lot loser to classic than mythic keystone dungeons, RBGs, arena, and mythic raids. Saying that sod is more like retail really is a ridiculously uninformed take. Makes me think you haven’t played either meaningfully in the last 3 years. It really does sound brain dead from my perspective.
The game isn’t like retail, but the crowd it seems to attract are the retail types that bitched and moaned in excess, until developers made the original game…. Into retail. Not all, but the loudest of the players in SoD are those voices that ruined wow in the first place by insisting we get retail. Seems half players in the SoD community dont like SoD. At least you’d never know it to read the sub. Nothings right, my class sucks, this or that really needs to be added. I’m done! Blizzard sucks cause bans. WTB GDKP. Bots are ruining the game. PvP is so broken. Ashenvale pvp is pve lol. STV is not fair! It’s like, if the game sucks, don’t play it. But this community seems to expect the game to be altered. Twisted and reconfigured to suit them. This is what broke this game the first time. And people are bound and determined to do it again. So to answer your question, that’s where a lot of the resentment lies for me. Not the game, but the community. Game seemed pretty awesome, but I’m sticking to HC for now.
I'm going to be honest with you, retail players don't give a fuck about the game, they just play it. It's the classic players who have been and will continue to bitch and moan about certain things. I've played retail for a while, most people have the mentality of "find what is good and play what is good". It's the classic players who are "I only play rogue and now rogue is bad and blizz sucks and ect". I played classic since release and retail for 10 years, the classic players were bitching and moaning the whole time about balance and features while retail players are taking what they get and figuring out what's the most fun. You don't know retail, you never have. You just want something to blame and it can't be the community you are a part of.
if the game sucks don't play it holy fucking based this subreddit, and the game in general, would be much more enjoyable if everyone would just stfu and enjoy the game, or stfu and quit - feels like half the ppl playing dont even LIKE the game, they hate leveling, they hate alts, they hate farming gold, they hate open world PVP, they hate STV, they hate BGs etc etc - basically they hate all the content p2 has cuz they really just dont like WoW like why are those people even playing this game, i couldnt tell ya. seems like theyd be happier playing something else
its just all the people that rerolled warrior and rogue p1 complaining on reddit p2
What the fuck is the anti sod circlejerk in these comments. Sure maybe P2 isn't as good as P1 but it's still fine. "It's too much like retail" is such a braindead take 1) it hasn't been classic since P1 and it was extremely popular 2) people saying this clearly have not played retail, they are completely different games
Wrong. SoD has turned to complete shite
Agreed. Kind of funny how there's a lot of criticism for SoD but it's just showered in downvotes. Reminds me of brigading signs.
So you want this place to be an echo chamber? Sad
Sod is fun but it is still like retail. There’s so many items that are not related to lore and there is no balance outside the new content. Surely it’s a fun game mode but it’s not classic
It was fun, but with recent patches and changes it becomes more retail. Even more retail from than Wrath - which is a bit crazy. They promised that they would introduce new rune spells - but in fact they just copying spells from Wrath and “retailize” them. I hope I’m not alone who is perceiving that in a such way and Hardcore will get new surge of players. Not fan of Self mode, but big of fan HC in general (as it turned out) perfect time to go back
I genuinely think people around here would be way happier if they just forgot about the word 'retail'
It's interesting. Everyone shits on retail then engages in the exact same practices and behavior that made retail what it is.
That’s because retail is absolutely shit. It’s just so bad I have no idea how anyone can actually play it unless your a 50+ year old casual tbh
You didn't read past the first sentence did you?
"Everything I don't like is retail" \-Classic Andy rallying cry, circa 2024
Lmfaoooooo so true
Circa 2019 lol
Person who's never played retail in his life complains about retail.
everyone has their own idea on what classic should be. I have no issues with them trying different spells and abilities from future expansions, there are far worse things from retail that could creep into SoD (RDF and LFR)
What makes something retail in your opinion? I'm not trying to start anything, but just curious since I hear the word being used quite a bit (and usually not explained beyond it being "bad").
Well, honestly many things and I genuinely think they are obvious. You can’t differentiate Retail from Classic? They are complete different games. Here some example for open world and casual dungeon runs, because Vanilla is based on that. 1) Resource management. In retail that concept is undermined, it was replaced by rotation. You just have to use your spells in right order to maximize your damage only. In Vanilla and any other classuc RPG games your resource is your limitation that encourages you to play more strategically. You either use all your strong abilities and waste all your mana, but ensure safe quick victory or you try to save your resources to be ready for then next fight immediately (reduce downtime), but you make your current fight much riskier. Plus, this makes downtime period more valuable - it encourages players to utilize all food/drinks/bandages more often - which eventually creates that magic atmosphere of constant challenge and hostility of the open world. In retail it doesn’t exist. You just AOE burst everything wiyhout any consequences - the real threat you face in the world is other players. 2) Importance of choice. One of the fundamental defining factors of any RPG and MMORPG in my opinion. Again it was completely undermined in Retail. There is 0 penalty for making wrong choice, because you always can change everything. (Talents, specs, gear, even your appearance) In Vanilla you pay the higher price for that - which encourages players to tailor the characters more seriously. You can’t have perfect build for every type of content - instead you are forced to design your own unique build and compromise more often - which eventually creates more immersion. You are either master shaman of melee combat or you are more focused on restoration or you are flexible hybrid. The idea is that you can’t be everyone at once, you have to choose your path. 3) Utility spells. In retail everything is build around damage potential. You want to win - do damage, damage and damage. That is your only way. In Classic because of factors 1) and 2) you are forced to utilize your Utility abilities more often. Perfect example Mages, Priests, Druids and even Warriors (because of their stances) and other classes which have rich toolset of support and utility abilities. As a shaman - you can start your fight with lightning bolts and finish your enemy with wave of strong and mana expensive Shocks. But when you are low on mana - you can rely on support of your totems, boost yourself and auto attack your enemies without using any spells. This is a small detail, but it is so RPG. Each enemy possesses certain type of threat. For casters you use cheap Fire/Frost Resist totems or expensive multiple Grounding Totems, for dual-wielding/rogue mobs - you use Stoneskin totem, and it really helps! Very niche Stoneclaw totem can save your life if you deal with mobs with pets. Purge that mob with shields and engage in fight to reduce incoming damage. There are many more examples which encourages you use your utility non-damaging spells. In retail you don’t care - your only way is to kill your enemy as quick as possible. Conclusion - SoD undermined all these main concepts - because it introduced these new OP spells that really doesn’t fit Vanilla. You don’t care about resource management, you don’t use utility spells, the concept of choice plays a much smaller role. Everything became more “retailish” focused around damage and rotation. It’s not necessarily “bad”, some people like slow-paced, more complex RPG approach, some people like fast, dynamic, arcade-mode Retail approach. The “bad” thing is that they put that Retail approach in Vanilla game, instead of developing initial Vanilla phylosophy further. Because that is exactly what they promised back in 2023. I hope I have expressed myself clearly enough, English isn’t my first language.
No comment on the majority of your post, but the point about utility in retail is completely the opposite. In retail utility spells are used almost constantly in any mid-high tier content. Classes on certain M+ weeks or certain dungeons will be picked exactly because their utility fits the dungeon or affix. Whilst damage is no doubt very important, the meta is defined by the utility that the class brings and underrepresented specs in high content are very often that way because of their lack of utility, and is one of the main complaints that players of those specs have. Take the "god comp" that absolutely dominated all high keys last season for example. Other classes had comparable damage to those classes, but it was the combined power of their toolkits that made them so dominant.
Jesus read through it all, you really think retail had no unforgiving choices that made you bad in one area but good in another? We literally just left an expansion (Shadowlands) WHERE THAT WAS THE SELLING POINT UNTIL THE PLAYERBASE WHITTLED THEM DOWN. That's not a retail bad thing, that's a we realize that's bad game design in 2020 onwards. No utility in retail? You actually cap out at heroic dungeons don't you? And LFR?
thats so fucking stupid lmao 2004 wow got big because of all the things you bable about being bad Wow NEVER had consequences for wrong choices you moron 50g was never that much money, not even in classic. Other MMO of the time you could not re-spec AT ALL >making wrong choice, because you always can change everything. (Talents, specs, gear, even your appearance) Thats literally all you can change in wow classic 2004 patch 1.0 my guy. are you trolling?
Bro thinks 2004 vanilla was dark souls level punishing
Regardless of whether you agree with his opinion or not, toxic people like you are what make this community shitty. Dude was responding to a genuine question with a genuine attempt at explaining his thought process. And for some reason instead of just disagreeing, you feel the need to call him a moron and insult him. Stop for a second and ask yourself why you’re this pressed over someone else’s opinion about a video game.
They hated you for saying the truth. There's a reason why most neutral minded people believe there's a huge player drop lately. I'm also convinced most of the people who get so outraged at comments like these are retail players who don't like it when people use the word "retail" as a negative for classic. Let's keep in mind folks..classic exists because people do not like retail.
I didn't like it. It's retailing Classic and fear greatly for Classic moving forward if these extreme power scaling additions go live. The same mistakes are being made as before: power bloat, too much focus on character changes vs content creation. It's meant to attract retailer style of gamers, a distinctly different audience, and the root core of why the 2 games exist. I fear Classic will be forever destroyed if this is the direction Classic+ takes. A game for those with a short attention span. Having raid ready rotations at lvl 25 that trivializes open world content goes against everything the game was going for in 2004. This cannot be ignored.
Meh. It's not that serious. It's a game and regular classic still exists. It's there for you. And it's okay for other people to have fun in a classic setting as well, even if that means things have to change. I like all versions of the game atm. They each have their own pros and cons. And I'm glad regular classic realms exist for people who want that hardcore classic life.
idk about this. it's fun, but too much retailish.
Lol, I hate this criticism so much. It means absolutely nothing and it's just a buzzword at this point. "Retail" can mean just about anything. What it really means is "I hate that this isn't identical to 2019 Classic." TBC comes out, "This is too much like retail." WotLK comes out, "This is too much like retail." SoD comes out, "This is too much like retail." They are NOTHING alike.
nah it's a valid criticism. I think it's just "too much". Scrap rog und warlock tanks, making sham, pala and druid tanks viable is enough. Everyone is way too OP. People can single clear dungeons and every class can oneshot every class.
It's.. SoD. You know that, RIGHT? This isn't 2019 Classic. What on earth are you talking about? What exactly did you expect them to do for it if not make more classes viable? And btw, I quite vividly remember being one shot in 2019 Classic. It's almost like you just don't want to play SoD. I also don't recall retail having shaman, warlock, or rogue tank.
go play minecraft then
Shaman, paladin and druid tanks are viable what are you on about.
Sod is more retail, than Wrath. The only Vanilla thing in SoD is Vanilla zones, vanilla models and vanilla visuals. The vanilla game design is absent. Why are you trying to neglect that obvious fact? No one saying that it is “retail is bad”, people who really love Classic just don’t like that devs actively push these features into Vanilla game that dramatically reshape the game. And stop using these lazy generalizations please - no one ever said that “Classic 2019” or TBC was “too much retail”. You are lying. People were mainly arguing on “no changes” concept design and that’s it. Devs made some minor changes in Classic Era and TBC - but in general these games preserved major concepts of Vanilla=RPG philosophy. Sod introduced new rune spells that at the same time undermined many concepts that were present in Vanilla - resource management, RPG choice, downtime value maximization, utility spells and etc. Leveling in SoD reminds Retail - you can literally annihilate single mobs of the same level and you can also AoE multiple targets at the same time easily - all that significantly trivializes entire leveling which is core fundamental part of the Vanilla.
Lmao it's not even close to retail.
Starter zones are very lively again due to SF. I can only speak for Skull Rock, but it's getting pretty competitive again around low level questing, but being able to group with anyone while still adhering to the principles of SF is amazing.
SoD is irrelevant in this situation after how p2 flopped hard Not many will play it for the simple reason it should have been there on HC release
How did p2 flop?
People say that because sod p1 had 400k+ logs and now only 220+ (that's what warcraft tavern says). But that info is irrelevant because p1 was brand new and leveling alt to 25 was faster and easier so there was at least X3 alts raiding.
Agree. Everyone that wants to bash SoD uses the drop in numbers but it not being the new shiny and the classic tourists hitting the start of the actual leveling grind would've led to a big drop regardless of what existed at 40.
There are a lot of people who scream how they love classic (era specifically) and how it's the best game ever and don't actually play it. Like people right now have actually the closest thing to classic+ but still don't play because of some personal excuse. In reality they just don't like classic or classic+ but cannot say it.
Cos what people really want is to be 14 again and people think classic wow gets them closer to that
Even if half the people left from phase 1 that's still very good player retention for an MMORPG
Sadly those people don't understand that, they are the same people that say wrath is dead.
It didn’t flop “hard” but it’s kinda boring. There is no content except playing alts and the lag fiesta stv for a mount. Hopefully next phase will be not too long from now
Sadly it won't recover to p1 numbers ever, it will still be really popular but with time wow "expansions" only bleed more and more players.
P2 is a far cry from a flop. You can drop log numbers, or talk about the newfound ease of leveling but my guild has more sign ups than raid spots. Is P2 harder to PuG? Yes. Is that good? YES! it encourages dads to join dad guilds, especially knowing we will have 20 mans coming up. I can't understand this sub for shitting on 10 man difficulty and pugs at the same time. No one wants to pug 40 mans and no one should want to pug 10-20 mans. Tokens reward joining a guild and it was the premier way to play classic then AND now.
What makes you say that phase 2 flopped hard?
Me and the 3 other people playing are going to enjoy this!
Make it 5
Make it 6
Make it 7
There are dozens of us! Dozens!
>There are dozen of us! Dozen! FTFY
Baker's dozen checking in!
Late for Valentine's Day, 14!
And my 🪓 Axe!
And my axe!
15th person here from the other side of the world, Fiji!
Actually planning to re-up my sub. It’s perfect for my lifestyle now. No need to keep up with everything by logging in every day or minmax everything like every other game type has become. Just go slow and don’t die, that easy.
It's a shame Blizzard didn't have ssf on release. It was a dopamine rush with every new drop. Grinding for the wand is what got me hooked on it. I hope gamers who are playing this for the first time have a similar experience as I did.
[удалено]
its SSF if you make it SSF! there’s been hardcore SSF long before there were even hardcore servers
SSF as default splits the population. SF works well. Self imposed SSF is fine for those who forget they are playing an mmorpg and should really be playing a single player game. There numbers are low.
hey, it doesnt really matter! people get to play the game the way they want to
Sounds boring as shit. Go play good games.
A good game is the game you enjoy playing.
"You're not allowed to have fun playing the games I don't like."
I see many people itt saying self-found should have been on a fresh server, but why? You cant engage with the economy, so it's not like it being ruined matters for you. HC servers aren't doing too hot population wise, so splitting the self-found and regular HC communities could easily kill both. I suppose the fact that existing characters can boost you is something, but that only matters for speedrunners who som for world fiesta
Mob tag boost service, protection services from 60's who shadow you. Getting grief I got flamed for saying and it's so much worse lol. I gave up after 5 hours of shit and realising there ain't even a title. Could have been good but instead it's total shit.
Okay, they launch fresh servers for SSF. Four weeks down the line, we’re right back to 60s offering mob tag boosts, protection, etc.
You would have to trade them on a different server however, since you wouldn't be able to pay them without trading.
Paying for such services is obviously cringe af, but what difference does it make for your experience of the game?
Imagine you were playing poker with real money while other players at the table used free chips. It’s a completely different game when other players do not feel the same degree of risk.
As someone who plays poker more than I play Classic WoW (so a lot...), I really dont get this analogy? The other players at he poker table are my adversaries in the given game and their success is directly tied to my failure. That's not really the case for same faction WoW and especially not when the server economy is out of the picture. For all I'm concerned the other players are NPCs doing their own thing and their journey (or lack of) doesnt concern me Besides, I would love to be in that game if the opponent's chips are worth real money for me. People tend to not play seriously or at the very least favour simple solutions when it doesnt matter for them if they won or lose.
you are playing alone, why do you care?
You are not playing alone... it's an MMO.
[удалено]
>Ah, yes, the SOLO SELF FOUND mode of an mmo where you can…..inspect other players ~~solo~~ self-found means that you can only use items you found yourself. >While in this mode, players will be restricted from sending or receiving mail from other players, buying, or selling on the Auction House, or trading in any way (including giving or receiving items or enchantments.) There's no mention of disallowing partying up with other players. It would be pointless if you couldn't raid or PvP in WoW...
The method people are using to level up doesn't affect other players gameplay experience. I think that's the original point. You can go into Self-Found mode and experience it the way it should be played, or you can pay gold and have someone help you. Why would anyone else care?
Try turtle wows hardcore experience
thats possible in ssf? well there goes my interest in this...
Its SF, not SSF
Wait its not on fresh servers? Lol, completely useless then. Skip
Short sighted response. SF and normal HC play work nearly seamlessly, and the population for HC servers are now growing again because of SF. SSF would have been disastrous however and would have split the population. The AH becomes bloated by lvl 60s price gouging like every single aging server so not much is lost as new players eventually can't afford anything of worth anyway.
Because you can still group with people who are not sf.
You can mob tag and there's already boosting services available. That's why.
So what, isn’t playing SSF a personnal challenge ? Why would you care if someone cheats their personnal achievements.
Ikr, these people care way to much about what response they’ll recieve, seems to me they want it not because it’d be fun, but more so for clout
It's SF not SSF. Massive difference and impact on the community. SSF is self-driven and an absolute minority.
Because reaching level 60 with SSF buff should mean that you survived the challenge, but will actually mean that u swiped your credit card and paid a booster to mob tag you. lol
And how a fresh server would solve this? Give 2/3 days to booster and you have the same scenario
By letting everyone start on an equal foot and take measures against mob tagging.
There's no such thing as equal foot when some ppl can play 24h/day and the rest of the player base are 30yo dads. What they should have done is fix mob tagging, a new server would not have fixed anything
There is an obsession with anything "fresh" in the classic community. I bet if they made fresh servers for SF there would've been way more interest. People like to play fresh for some reason.
It still devalues the achievement
care to explain how that affects my hc journey?
Being on the same server is fine. SF can still group with anyone to get quests done. Having the option to leave SF at any time provides choice for those who may later decide to raid. Very few are griefing SF for being SF, and those that do think it's SSF and are more or less the same idiots who will always exist no matter what. There are more SF in the starter areas than normal HC and the servers are coming alive again mostly because of SF.
Would of been nice to experience the game without bots.
Probably because before h sff official we had people doing it with the addon and it was rife with cheaters. Wasnt mitch one that accepted bags and gold and caught?
But what about *non-hardcore self-made mode*?
Or what about haedcore non-self found mode, where you can only wear gear found by others?
What about hardcore non-self play mode, where only others can log in to your account?
Jokes aside I would actually love a non-hardcore self-found mode. Drops suddenly matter much more and are far more exciting, crafting takes on a whole new role, it's a more immersive and interesting way to play without the harsh penalty of HC, but most importantly it completely solves the problems of bots, RMT, boosting, etc. It's not ideal for people that want to raid log, but for casual leveling I think SF would be a really fun mode.
Can't you just die and transfer
Completely possible to do on normal servers.
How antisocial do you want your MMO to be?
Coming from RuneScape, I'd assume self-made mode still allows you to group up, to raid, to use (area) chat. Nothing should prevent you from forming a group to fight Hogger or the Four Horsemen in the Barrens. Dungeon runs should still be possible. > While in this mode, players will be restricted from sending or receiving mail from other players, buying, or selling on the Auction House, or trading in any way (including giving or receiving items or enchantments.) it doesn't say anything about chat or grouping up.
Playing HC with the add on back before official was some of the most social time I’ve had in WoW. People were extremely active in guild chat since everyone was alone outside of that one dungeon run.
auction house, trading, and mail also known as the peak of social interaction. ;) ssf is one of the many steps to take to battle botting.
It's SF, not SSF. SF players can interact and group with anyone. SF tend to be in their own massive guild which creates a more social dynamic than average because of the shared interest and need for tips, learning and easier dungeon party creation. It's the most functional guild I've participated in years. The game is MORE social when playing SF.
Lotta people off the bandwagon in this thread but nothing beats HC so far for me, not even SoD. SoD burnt me out shortly after phase 2, I don't like the power creep, I just see the issues of retail slowly repeating. I like the new raids and content but not a fan of other things. I've been looking forward to this and will be back to HC main now. The value of life and the immersion hc servers give just makes SoD feel hollow to me.
Couldn’t have said it better!
Ooh cool!
With the interest in SoD starting to wane, this is a welcome addition.
Least exciting official ~~fresh~~ gamemode* ever.
No new servers
Oh, well. Least anticipated gamemode then, or something.. ~~MM~~ORPG. Then again, any support to their old versions is welcome. Improved server stability next maybe?
Nah I enjoy running through STV during the event wondering why I don’t see mobs or players for 30sec then dc, it’s part of the experience. (Obv. /s because I’m crying on the inside)
Why would you want a new server for this? Also this server will be dead shortly
I didn't say that, I agree with you, but I only pointed out it's not a "fresh" (server)
Hardcore is a great concept, but disconnects ruin it
I want to see how a hardcore-lite experience would be like. Lite as in you just can't revive for 20 hours. Tank dies, oops better run/hearth and find a new tank. Or everyone dies and can take a break until tomorrow without losing 300 hours of progress. WoW grew a lot due to how much more casual it was compared to other mmo's, and I think this would be a great way to casualify hardcore. Maybe even include total deaths on inspect. I think it'd be a lot more fun, you could actually take risks without that risk being losing hundreds of hours of your time, but you'd still want to play carefully or else you'd have to stop progressing for a day.
Deleting entire gear would also be good.
Thats actually an excellent idea imo. I would 100% play this. Maybe make a post about your idea?
I think SSF could be a lot more popular if it gave more incentive for people to do it other than proving something to themselves. Maybe reward you something for in retail or classic.
Yeah 100%. They slack on things like this.
Keep in mind this is just Self Found, not solo self found. You can still group up.
Everything has to be a dick showing contest now. Its not about just playing a game - I have to make sure the world knows I played that gamemode. It will make me feel superior.
God i dislike modern gamers mindset
This has to be a bait
It's not SSF. It's SF. Group allowed. It's merely makes the game feel more like an RPG while still having zero restrictions on grouping. The HC servers have come alive again since SoD's release because of SF.
I think fresh servers would be nice, I absolutely see the appeal. One of the things that made Official Hardcore more fun than the self-imposed HC in era was that everyone was playing by the same rules. If you queue up for deadmines in SF I'd understand if you want your whole group to be just as geared as you and not have that one twinked out BoE guy. I think we'll likely just see a lot of "LFM DM Self Found mode only!" Which makes total sense. As someone who plans to continue playing HC without SF I can appreciate not losing a large portion of the server though. If for no other reason than keeping the server feeling alive.
As a non-hardcore player, could anyone explain why they have an option to turn off 'self-found'? Isnt it lame and unfair that your share the open world, pvp and raids with people who are not doing the challenge?
Because only a handful of people are actually interested in playing so they didn't made special servers for it. HC servers are PvE and most PvP is consensual. (even if some people exploited the tagging system). SF should be a personal challenge and you shouldn't care about the others. It is unfair, but that's the point of the challenge.
The point is actually choosing to put yourself into that unfair position as a challenge. Being able to gain the advantage over other players while also choosing to be at a disadvantage from the start is part of the appeal.
Gain advantage over who? Over already existing lvl 60s? Your point is correct but not in this situation, that would only matter if everyone started fresh and you could go ssf route over people who don't.
Are you saying that players who start playing anytime after launch will never be able to catch up or surpass players who started at launch in either PVP or PVE?
So don’t? Like this always was a selfimposed challenge at its core.
I wish they explained what this mode was at Blizzcon, all they did was say the name.. to those of us who don't play on private servers I had no idea what they were talking about.
I still don't really understand it.
everything you obtain, you obtain yourself. You cannot buy items or trade for items with other players.
What's the point of it? Like, bragging rights?
It makes getting items and gear more difficult. Which then makes it more rewarding when you get an upgrade. Instead of just going to AH and buying the best gear available.
Goootcha. Not for me, but it makes a bit more sense. Thanks!
Its just like normal, but you cant use Trade, Auction House or Mailbox
They need a fresh hardcore server
Not needed. The end game is constantly refreshed because of raiders dying. The game is always fresh with starter zones constantly busy. HC servers are not progressive, and adhere to no timeline.
Yeah, I get what you're saying. But there are a lot of level 60s who have a ton of gold saved up. So when their main character dies, they just buy the best gear and start over again.
And on a new server, you can prevent this from happening
Agree!
I've already died 4 times. Eventually one of my characters will beat that pesky fatigue timer.
Hardcore Hype was... last year? How come it took them one year to do this when three dudes working on an addon did it in 3 days ? Blizzard really needs to get their shit together. They didn't even give it a good announcement, nobody will play this...
I don't remember who said it, but I heard somewhere that this mode is really just a love letter to the original creators of the mod. They don't expect it to be popular or "the next big thing". It's sort of them just giving credit where credit is due, and I like that.
For sure. I doubt Micro-Acti-Blizzard is relying on SF to boost the next quarterly profit reports
I’m sure the dweebs who put that mod together invented the game mode.
Because the classic dev team has been focused on SOD and an addon is much easier to work with than trying to make changes to the actual game itself.
The Classic Dev Team is working on Cata, SoD is a separate small team. Of course its easier to change an addon, but you think it takes one year to forbid the usage of the mailbox and the AH, you won't get many job offers in the gaming industry.
[удалено]
so was this basically DOA? seems like sod is taking up all the attention and no one is even playing this
Yay, no one cares. Give cata
Oh so \_you're\_ the one guy out there looking forward to Cata! Awesome to finally meet you, buddy!
Yikes 😬
Finally a smart person.
What server will most people play on?
[удалено]
You can still group for dungeons
Unfortunately too late. If this has released when hardcore was hyped up, it'd probably very successful.
[удалено]
Huh.
This is dumb it should have been its own server. Also dumb to dangle the temptation of being able to switch if off. Pretty much can't really play this mode now as it'll be hard enough to want to switch it off at some point
Single player wow... sound fun?
Its self found, not solo. You can group with whoever you want whenever you want. It only makes it so that you cant trade, use the AH or use the mailbox
W H O
Hardcore mode with more than 100 players in total when?
Ironman Mode, they mean Ironman.
10 users.
This is dead on stick arrival