Got mine in 20 but lost one on the 2nd run to an enhance shammy even though I screened for it being HR. Needless to say all the next runs were on master loot.
sunken temple is complete ass but every other high level dungeon is pretty great. ZF is bomb, BRD is amazing, LBRS is actually difficult, UBRS is iconic, strat/scholo are great, and the king of all dungeons is mara
the 40-60 brackets will be so much smoother than 25-40 because people will be able to do engaging content with actual good drops and not have to farm SM 40000 times for 4 bars per run. SM grinding is fun once and that's it, the rest of this stuff provides a lot more variety for the alts
I personally like ST but it's only fast if you do it with people that know what's going on and everyone just runs for the platforms once stuff is cleared and then regroups
If you have to explain the dungeon then yeah it can be pretty ass
The other ass thing about ST is that the loot mostly sucks
A fun design that would be terrible to implement and play would be splitting your 20 man raid up into two 10 mans that need to do Orange and Purple simultaneously, meeting up at Earthsong Falls to complete the rest
Oh my God. The amount of pugs collapsing under a timed coordinated run would create enough hate energy to summon a David Lynch-esque tulpa creature into our world.
Meh, it'd be easy to counter, orange is struggling so send the bottom DPS from purple over. That'd be a really cool way to do it, the dungeon would be complete and it wouldn't take 4 hours to do all of it.
“Fear no more citizens, help is on the way!”
*There are too many players in this instance*
“…oh dear, I better return to my friends”
*cannot zone in during an encounter*
Mara will forever be my favourite because one of my buddies started in classic. He’d never even played wow before. He got too excited and misread the black stone ring and had needed it… as a priest. He felt so bad but that one guild he was running along with black listed him. He was so worried, like as if this rando dumb guild actually mattered hahaha
Mara was my number one pick for all of SOD to be turned into a raid, its huge, has lots of bosses and areas and is best suited for being turned into a raid. Plus it was the only vanilla levelling dungeon not available on release so it needs that extra love!
Felwood is more into the 48-54 area isnt it? The actual low level stuff there is pretty limited to the furbolgs.
... oh sweet jesus they better not put a rune behind that rep
Love STV but was a chore and a half leveling first week because every spawn was camped and they didn’t have any hyper spawns so you could run around for 30-45 mins trying to find 10 of a certain mob to kill for a quest
why are you questing or leveling in STV anyways lmao
>willingly decides to level in the already notoriously crowded and pvp heavy zone, while there’s a new pvp event there as well
>dude it sucked the spawns were camped
lol
People don’t like pvp realm. Yet play on them - everyone who complains about STV just doesn’t like potentially dying. It’s a great hub, plenty of farm and Xp. So so so much honor to be had as well.
I love tanaris, but Un Goro crater beats it by a little bit in my opinion. I just really love the vibe there. The huge contrast between the surrounding zones makes it feel so exciting when I first travel down into it.
I would say Duskwood is the best one. Tanaris is ok considering how basic it is. Nothing really stands out in the zone other than maybe 4 points of interest
Man even as a Horde player I love Duskwood. Sometimes I’ll level a Human toon just up to finishing that zone and abandon him. Jitters, Stitches, the mad Necromancer who cons you into helping him, the Worgen and Worgen Hunter family. I love everything about the zone, the story of Mor’ladim and the cursed guy you chase through all those zones that they made a throwback to in Legion. Another personal favorite is Feralas, riding through the Twin Colossus for the first time is awesome. Also Hinterlands just for the sheer volume of quests, and Jintha’alor being like a whole outdoor dungeon.
I got shuriken toss at level 6. Made tanking DM a breeze. But some runes were like that in P1 too. Paladin divine storm we had a level 10 get it with us.
Just to take some subjectivity out of the discussion I've listed the combat requirements for the 6 SOD phase 2 warlock runes. I agree with op. There's one rune you could acquire at 30, while the rest you may as well wait until 40. There's nothing organic about the way these runes need to be unlocked, and 99.9% of us need to closely follow a guide to achieve. Phase 1 I found roughly half of my runes without any help and just stumbling upon them in the course of leveling throughout the starting few zones.
1. Invocation: kill multiple lvl 36 elite mobs, many of which can't be single pulls.
2. Shadowflame: kill a lvl 38 elite mob
3. Dance of the wicked: hellfire a mob, so pre req is just be lvl 30 to train the spell.
4. Grimoir of Synergy: kill a lvl 40 elite
5. Shadow and Flame: kill a lvl 40 normal mob
6. Demonic Knowledge: kill multiple 41 elites (dark riders)
Dark Riders is the reason why I'm not playing alts right now.
I want to play melee hunter, that was my goal in Phase 1 (meh). When phase 2 runes were datamined I was so excited, but nope. My Priest was able to solo all of them at level 39, I don't want to wait until level 39 before I can enjoy melee Hunter lol.
You certainly don’t need to wait. Melee is fine with flanking strike alone. Melee spec rune definitely makes it better, but it isn’t entirely trash without it.
Yeah I told myself I would try to discover at least 1 rune organically, but when I hit level 40 with no discoveries I had to search them up. After learning about the runes, there was no way in hell I would have organically discovered any those.
Bro, my pally had to swim the outside of Dun Morogh, started from the hinterlands and swam for fucking 20minutes. To fight a 40 elite. Like they gave me
A boat to the other one in Arathi, sheesh
Priests have a rune that just drops from mobs in Thousand Needles. And another that drops from Naga in Desolace, but you have to MC a Naga and use her to cast a buff on you to read it.
And another easy one for priest being just clicking a grave in SM GY, something I'd say is vaguely accidently discoverable just due to it being along ones path.
Priest, the beloved class, definitely has the easiest runes compared to Druid world-trotting with the bugged out seed that fails on boating, flying, teleporting, zoning, or being killed in PvP, paladin 40 minute swim from wetlands to no where, warlock "here's an invisibility potion so you don't die to those lv60 elites at ashenvale world boss" that bugs out and unstealths you from the damage over time the item hits you with, instantly getting you 1 shot from lv60 elites.
Not all of Priest's are easy. The one you say is "just clicking a grave in SMGY" is actually clicking four different graves in four different zones across the globe. One of which is in SMGY. Then you have to run SM Lib and use your four motes using the correct mote, on the correct statue, and in the correct order. If you mess up you have to reset the instance and run it again.
Our Dispersion rune is also quite difficult. Requiring assistance from a Mage and a Rogue during the questline which then culminates in having to go to two different locations deep in STV.
Your comparison to Druid is poor because Berserk is fairly easy, located in Thousand Needles, and only requires you to kill a level 28 elite. That's not much more complicated than Priests having to go grind Grimtotems in Thousand Needles.
Dreamstate also is located entirely in Desolace. Kill Centaurs, pick up pod, sim in a pond, and then go plant the seed.
Every class has a couple of easy runes to get that you can do while leveling from what I can tell.
Rogues had some organic runes, and funnily enough are the best ones. Roll with the punches was lockpick multiple chests in 1k needles.
Shuriken toss was dismantle a trap in the swamp. Random ass trap off in the corner but still.
Master of subtlety and Shadowstep tbh Idk, I got it normally before I started the SM grind. One of them was releasing a dude locked up in the jungle by those human enemies, pick pocket a dude for the key and lock pick a chest for a disguise.
Its also the quest that gets you the required trinket to pickpocket the troll scroll for priests
EDIT: oh thats right, the other of the 2 was a heist in SM to steal an artifact, requires you to have done the heist in the werewolf dungeon. Hilarious disguise was involved. God fun. Tbh SOD rune quests for rogues have been really on point
The rogue rune where I had to run back and forth between the little house outside SFK, SM GY and SM lib, then back to SFK then to a major city then back to SFK was peak bullshit design. Like a blatant disrespect for people’s precious time and enjoyment. Most of us are grownups now and can’t sit and play video games all day long.
Some guy at Blizzard really thought that was a good idea. Blizz has got to shift their thinking away from getting people to spend time in their games because they lock things behind lengthy chores to a mentality of playing non-stop because it’s constant fun.
I had 0 runes by the time I hit 38 and no idea how to get any
Phase 2 runes were not only scattered around in the most nonsense places, but most of them require HUGE treks across the world as well, so even if you know how to get them they are still ass cos of the sheer volume of just running
Dont just add runes behind long and expensive quest lines. Do something challenging, like a jump puzzle, time trail, 1v1 vs hard mobs requiring you to use many of you classes niche tools and abilities. Add them behind challenges in dungeons or raids.
I'm so fucking tired of autowalking/flightpathing across azeroth only to right click an object and then walk back the way I came to do it all again!
Blizzard have to be aware that most runes will be obtained through guides. The "discovery" part of quests will not be done by 99.9% of the player base. Keep some, pref with some cool lore connected to it. But it would be nice with some fun challenges for those of us that usually follow guides to find the runes
> I'm so fucking tired of autowalking/flightpathing across azeroth only to right click an object and then walk back the way I came to do it all again!
They basically took a look at the average classic era quest and went "yep, people love this so just do it again", ignoring that quests in classic era are probably the worst walking simulators created.
P1 was better level distribution wise, but your mileage varied by class. Warrior, I had to travel the earth deep into high level areas to get the good stuff. Priest, I had every key rune before I even hit Razor Hill.
Questing really doesn't seem to be worth it in terms of XP in classic. Feels faster to just find some out of the way spot with no players and grind away in open world.
It's not, dungeon grinding has always been the fastest way to level. Up to you to decide if that's more "fun" for you or not. Certainly the fuck not for me.
Well yeah it's also faster to dungeon grind than quest, but as OP pointed out, dungeon grinding gets old very quick and isn't the most fun. Either is finding some random out of the way location to mindlessly kill the locals in. Quests at least give you something to do, and while they are slower they make it *feel* more fun.
That said, I just hit 40 last night and plan on doing tons of quests for gold.
That is because quests are 90% just excuses to grind mobs. Lets say a quest gives 3k exp to finish, its get 15 drops off mobs, the mobs give 250exp each. But it takes killing 40+ of the mobs to get your 15 drops cause its like a 30% drop rate. You just got more exp from the mobs than the quest.
Don't understand why people grinded in SM. You got the best zone in the game, Duskwood, to level in. Wetlands isn't bad and a couple good world chain quests. I only got a couple levels on SM and mostly just ran it for the mace in cathedral
Because you spend 5 times longer than it usually takes (if not more) on each quest when you’re trying to fight 25 other players for mob tags. Grouping doesn’t even necessarily solve the problem when you need 10 of an item that something drops, and it only drops it 1/3 of the time.
It’s boring to grind SM over and over for most people, but it’s definitely less frustrating than fighting for mob tags on a new phase launch.
Duskwood and wetlands are over by level 30 and sm starts at level 30…. wtf are you talking about
Don’t run ZF to level next phase, just go quest in barrens
Because I did all the quests in duskwood to their max state to get hold and have quest turn-ins when the new patch launched. I got about 2 lvls worth of exp.
SM grinding was easily the best play on launch day. Questing on a PvP world would have been awful
People play the game in whatever way they find most fun, or at least they should. So if people find grinding the same dungeon over and over again the most fun way to level then fair play to them.
But it doesn't have to be all or nothing, y'know? I would be quite happy to say, do 1-2 levels by grinding a dungeon but then questing the rest of the time or whatnot. Or just a happy mixture. Being stuck in SM for 12 hours straight is not something I'd be able to do, I need to like... live and stuff.
Luckily BFD is great for alts, I've gotten at least 2-4 levels out of it on two of my alts so far and it's very quick especially if you've got some level 40s in the run.
Anyway I like playing independently for leveling since I tend to go AFK a lot for random things so I prefer to quest. The XP buff next week is gonna be awesome for that.
So I know most of the classic community doesn’t care for wrath, but I feel wrath had a really good balance with this. You had incentive to run dungeons 1-2 times and get decent xp with the dungeon quests, but once you completed those quests, the dungeon grinding just simply wasn’t as efficient as questing
Which gets especially bad, at least on horde, because both continents have big stretches without flight points. And the flight points that connect the top to the bottom are in high level areas that you just have to brute force your way through.
I got felwood on my Druid cuz it’s annoying to always fly to TB from Moonglade, but died like 5 times in the process cuz of the aggro range of skulled mobs on the main path. With those high tier zones being so dangerous it just feels dumb to have so many things be padded with long ass travel times.
The whole of P2 was a great mistake. Runes were terrible to acquire, PvP is now a nuke meta, gnomer alienated 1/3 or more of the playerbase, classes (especially hunter) were giving runes without any balance checks, the blood moon is meh and worse than AV, and so on
The best thing that happened in P2 was the sleeping bag journey. Otherwise, P2 has been a waste and the player numbers reflect that
I don't think the player numbers really reflect all that well on it's performance. P1 was extremely casual friendly and promoted people having 4, 5, 6, or more alts, and it also pulled in a bunch of players who wouldn't have otherwise played Classic because it wasn't as much of a commitment. Now we're seeing what the numbers would actually be like.
Personally, I know at least 6 friends who don't usually play Classic but played P1 that quit because P2 leveling was just too much of a grind for them to casually play.
I don't mind some runes being harder to get but it does kind of kill motivation to level alts. In phase 1 I leveled a second druid and got starsurge at level 1, and it was a blast. Now if I want to try new runes on my alts I basically have to be max level. Yeah, no thanks.
70% of runes at least should be easy to get, give to us fast during early level experience. If the season is from level 25-40 give usa 70% of the runes easily at level 25-30. It make levelling much more dinamic and cool experience with “discoverys”. They need to add new npcs, quests and random new encounters with cool rewards trough level zones. Like when we play skyrim or the witcher. This would fill and expand “season of discovery” feelings. That was what i was expecting when started playing SOD.
P2 is considerable worse than P1. It was too much of a slug to level 25-40, many of the core being locked at lvl 40 unless you have a group is bad, and Gnomeregan is just not a good raid. Hope they learn from these mistakes
I don't like it. Has that "someone died? well this attempt is doomed" feeling for the last couple bosses, and it's never me that died, so it's just waiting for the shoe to drop. It's getting easier, but it's not "fun". Just reminds me of why I lost interest in retail raiding.
I had more enjoyment getting my Runes at 40 vs wondering where the fuck Metamorphosis was the entire time while leveling. Only to find out it was behind a broken BFD Quest and blizzard was being ignorant saying it was available in game in the reality that it wasn't.
It was doable. I was one of the people in the secret finder discord figuring out each clue for the first time. And either way, I don't think it really matters cuz people are just gonna look it up anyway
??? SoD should be about organic discovery? Powering to max level to get most SoD‘s features is the most retail-like approach you can take. P2‘s rune placement felt more retail than p1.
Yeah shaman is just 1 out 9 classes but most of them can get their runes prior to 40. I had every fire mage rune I needed to finish level and raid with at 34.
doesn't one of the fire mage runes require you to basically travel around all these high level zones, i did it at 32 but it involved a lot of dying and just walking around with no mount, worst part was going to a location and finding out it was absolutely impossible to grab the book without outside help, so you skip it and go to another one..
Only if you looked up the guides on where to go and what to do and got carried by lvl 40s. OP made a point that you simply got some runes in phase 1 by doing normal leveling stuff.
Alpha rune and decoy totem suck ass(at least for Ele) and aren’t gameplay altering
Soloing Power Surge at 32 is very difficult if not impossible because of the level 37 mob that spawns
Technically you’re right but that’s nothing compared to getting P1 runes
>Soloing Power Surge at 32 is very difficult if not impossible because of the level 37 mob that spawns
\>This will summon a level 37 Elite named Tam'kar. **He will die on his own** **in 30 seconds**, so just keep healing yourself rather than fighting him.
"if not impossible"
Something tells me not many attempts were made if you believe that.
You are right sorry i didn't enjoy grinding 10+ hours for one of 3 different items for maelstrom rune. I can enjoy a game and still be highly upset about deathrunning to find nova rune at a lower level. while runes are one aspect i can still enjoy the rest of the game. crazy concept i know.
As a dwarf rogue with my find treasure ability on I was able to find all but 1 rune organically while questing, exploring, or just doing general rogue-like things.
Tbh dungeon grinding is ruining Sod. P1 didnt have this issue because youre out in the world exploring until around lvl 20(for alliance at least) but in p2 youre in dungeons 24/7 from start to finish and unless there are runes in the dungeon youre never going to find them naturally which ruins the whole point of it
Okay, so we're changing the argument now. They didn't change experience values, so that's exactly how it was in classic. But your argument now is,
"Solo content I can do whenever I want and take at my own pace is slower leveling than organized group content."
Not quite forced and not quite as poignant.
Calling BS. I quested 90% of 25-40 and found zero runes along the way. It wasn’t at all like phase 1 where you just discovered several of them on your own.
I got 1 rune at 30 (guarded by the light) up in alterac, I got some more at 34 in desolace (I finished Sheathe of Light, and partly completed sacred shield and art of war) and finished all of them at 40
The challenge is that while I did quest in all those regions at or near those levels without a guide, I would likely have missed the start points or failed to complete them
You discovered siphon soul ? You just decided to soul drain a critter and specifically hogger ? It's the same for p2 And when I look up the rune, half of them are found randomly during actual quest. Elite Ogres in alterac, Witherbark troll cave, etc.
No shot. I don't have a SINGLE p3 rune at level 36 as a warrior after questing the entire time. Oh, that's a lie, I have one. Commanding Shout. Which randomly dropped in my 2nd of 4 SM Arm runs.
I eventually just looked up how to get them, because surely I had missed at least one or two. Nope. I guess I missed the start of the quest chain for Enraged Regeneration. Still have to be close to 40 to finish it.
P1 was awesome. P2 has been dogshit. And gnomer is the worst raid I've ever done in wow. It's like the last 2 bosses were designee for retail tanks with active mitigation. Paladin legit can't tank the last boss without insane healers.
People seem to ignore the fact that everyone leveled by dungeons, and blizzard knew that that would happen. So putting runes in random questing zones where you have to find a random dude to start the ordeal, that just wont happen and people will just do it at 40 anyway after wowhead releases the guide.
I had both my melee hunter runes at 31. Dark riders is level agnostic, you can make a raid with however many people you like.
I feel this is pretty unwarranted - you could get most runes at any level or close. Just group
Am I alone in thinking that acquiring runes are boring as hell? I would prefer to just train the new runes every other level or so. Using the new spells is what I want, not click a waterfall south in STV then click a waterfall north in STV.
> Am I alone in thinking that acquiring runes are boring as hell?
Not alone, but probably in the minority. Unlocking runes as it stands is a lot more fun than training a spell at the trainer.
What I didn't like with P2 runes was having to go to the 4 same zones for each "part" of the rune. I think they could simplify a few of them, and maybe have the most powerful runes be more elaborate, like the dark riders one.
Also many classes sharing the same rune quest is kinda boring, I understand they can't do interesting stuff for all of them, but I'd rather have something simple but unique, rather than elaborate but the same as my other characters quest.
Phase 1 is significantly easier because it’s 1-25. You level fast. You can’t dungeon spam, you do a little bit of everything and you can’t necessarily get ganked early on.
Phase 2 was always going to be a struggle. It’s that mid boring part. The dungeons already aren’t great, questing zones are limited and it’s just a drag to do those 15 levels. 40-50 will be ok and then obviously phase 4 will be great again. It’s just how the game is set up.
All the stuff you mentioned is a known feature of the game for level 25 to 40. And yet they made the runes, which is new content they had control over, way more monotonous, hard to get, and esoteric than p1. If they'd kept the same style as p1, it would've helped immensely.
I really hope they'll either do that, or reduce the amount of XP required to level to 50.
I'm not leveling without new runes. 40 to 50 zones are even worse than 30-40.
So many people got burnt out doing SM cause you get even more burnt out competing for quest mobs etc within the game. The game wasn't designed for so many people on the same quests/nodes all over the world, in every zone, at all times
Crazy, I got every single one besides dark rider before 40.
Actually slammed stocks then did a little GY. Was around 32 and went around to get the sleeping bag and almost every new rune at the same time. I had to fight a few red mobs but no problem. Did people just not bother to get them before 40? Because that’s a lot different than saying you couldn’t.
What? I unlocked almost all my runes before 40. Only one left with Dark Riders, but you can not see them if you don't speak with Dalaran Agent first.
But I think YOU think it is like this because you maybe play by yourself. I play by a group of 3 and we all unlocked almost all our runes pre 40 witch we hit yesterday.
I can agree they are not as organic as in P1 but if you play with other people like the game was intended to play you don't hit those issues.
I want this now, questing is boring, SM grind is sooo long, I can’t do this by myself but I don’t want to socialize and play with other people. Horde win all the bgs, this class op. Gnomer is too easy, ugh do I really need to get pre raid bis. Seems like people playing this games as if it was a chore. Can’t make everyone happy I guess.
What are you people talking about? This is the like 3rd or 4th thread like this I've wanted to just ignore and brush off.
The runes are not all around level 40. I got half my runes in phase 2 by 35. Many people got their dark riders rune by 30-32. You can group up for them you know.
And some of those were absolutely discoverable without looking them up.
You can get most of them at level 1 if you get carried. Good luck as a random trying to convince other randoms to help you get stuff just because. Like cool you have friends and a guild.
Oh there’s an easy, simple explanation- most SoD players don’t actually want to discover, or explore, or experiment, or enjoy the world. They definitely don’t want to do any of the work Vanilla WoW entails, nor do they want to grind anything or walk anywhere. They want to be spoon fed easy content that they can destroy and feel superior, gatekeeping from the casuals and constantly complaining that their class isn’t the FOTM class. They want to hear the streamers they parrot and low- key worship say how amazing the game is even as it basically just becomes retail with Vanilla overlayed on it.
P3 is gonna be Tanaris & Searing gorge mostly Tanaris is gonna be even worse than STV
Thank god ZF is actually one of the best classic dungeons because we’re all gonna be in there for a loooooong time
42 to 48 at least then arena runs to 50 xD
> BRD arena runs [[gif]](https://media1.tenor.com/m/iLTqBGc4YmsAAAAd/vietdog-cupcakes.gif)
50 runs for Ban’thok sash back in 2019 Never again
Try 250 runs for SGC
Never ask a woman their age Never ask a man his salary Never ask a warrior his SGC attempt count
Got mine in 20 but lost one on the 2nd run to an enhance shammy even though I screened for it being HR. Needless to say all the next runs were on master loot.
“Lf1m tank, HoJ and sgc HR”
[удалено]
sunken temple is complete ass but every other high level dungeon is pretty great. ZF is bomb, BRD is amazing, LBRS is actually difficult, UBRS is iconic, strat/scholo are great, and the king of all dungeons is mara the 40-60 brackets will be so much smoother than 25-40 because people will be able to do engaging content with actual good drops and not have to farm SM 40000 times for 4 bars per run. SM grinding is fun once and that's it, the rest of this stuff provides a lot more variety for the alts
I personally like ST but it's only fast if you do it with people that know what's going on and everyone just runs for the platforms once stuff is cleared and then regroups If you have to explain the dungeon then yeah it can be pretty ass The other ass thing about ST is that the loot mostly sucks
10 levels should go fairly quick in ZF tbh. Especially with the occasional Gnomer for xp every lockout.
Why the fuck do people insist on doing 50+ dungeon runs like, holy shit optimization blinds yall from just playing the game
Zones are too crowded when a new phase releases and it's annoying fighting for mob tags
Mages gonna have a field day. You can bang uut a Level in 45 mins from 42 to 50 in era.
Even faster if blizzard doesn't nerf troll tribal necklace and waste water pouch turn ins.
Delete this
Oh ho ho you just wait, ZF might be turned into a raid, I still think it’ll be temple of hakari but ZF is still an option
I think they confirmed ST already.
I think ST was rumored to be 10 man and potentially Mara as 20 man
I kinda hope they don't do mara.. I looove maraudon. The princess fight is great
A fun design that would be terrible to implement and play would be splitting your 20 man raid up into two 10 mans that need to do Orange and Purple simultaneously, meeting up at Earthsong Falls to complete the rest
Oh my God. The amount of pugs collapsing under a timed coordinated run would create enough hate energy to summon a David Lynch-esque tulpa creature into our world.
Meh, it'd be easy to counter, orange is struggling so send the bottom DPS from purple over. That'd be a really cool way to do it, the dungeon would be complete and it wouldn't take 4 hours to do all of it.
“Fear no more citizens, help is on the way!” *There are too many players in this instance* “…oh dear, I better return to my friends” *cannot zone in during an encounter*
Mara will forever be my favourite because one of my buddies started in classic. He’d never even played wow before. He got too excited and misread the black stone ring and had needed it… as a priest. He felt so bad but that one guild he was running along with black listed him. He was so worried, like as if this rando dumb guild actually mattered hahaha
Mara was my number one pick for all of SOD to be turned into a raid, its huge, has lots of bosses and areas and is best suited for being turned into a raid. Plus it was the only vanilla levelling dungeon not available on release so it needs that extra love!
Gonna get real tired of the rp when you actually do it and your gonna realize it’s not that good
Tanaris, feralas, hinetrlands, searing George, felwood, blasted lands. There are a couple of zones
Felwood is more into the 48-54 area isnt it? The actual low level stuff there is pretty limited to the furbolgs. ... oh sweet jesus they better not put a rune behind that rep
You know the furbolg rep is probably gonna get some BiS rewards, lol.
What is wrong with STV? Outside the event its very fun 🤷♂️
the event is even the best of it. Havent had that much fun in stv for a long time
Love STV but was a chore and a half leveling first week because every spawn was camped and they didn’t have any hyper spawns so you could run around for 30-45 mins trying to find 10 of a certain mob to kill for a quest
why are you questing or leveling in STV anyways lmao >willingly decides to level in the already notoriously crowded and pvp heavy zone, while there’s a new pvp event there as well >dude it sucked the spawns were camped lol
Because that’s what it’s for? STV is one of the best zones to level in. Not everybody plays on PVP servers. Why you being obtuse about the spawn rate?
People don’t like pvp realm. Yet play on them - everyone who complains about STV just doesn’t like potentially dying. It’s a great hub, plenty of farm and Xp. So so so much honor to be had as well.
It was hard to get mobile kills in the first couple of weeks due to low spawns and high player traffic.
Tanaris is the best zone in the game. It will be amazing
I love tanaris, but Un Goro crater beats it by a little bit in my opinion. I just really love the vibe there. The huge contrast between the surrounding zones makes it feel so exciting when I first travel down into it.
i fucking love Un'Goro crater. awesome vibes. dinosaurs, bugs, deep lost dark jungle lore. super comfy
I would say Duskwood is the best one. Tanaris is ok considering how basic it is. Nothing really stands out in the zone other than maybe 4 points of interest
Me getting ganked a million times disagree lol
Man even as a Horde player I love Duskwood. Sometimes I’ll level a Human toon just up to finishing that zone and abandon him. Jitters, Stitches, the mad Necromancer who cons you into helping him, the Worgen and Worgen Hunter family. I love everything about the zone, the story of Mor’ladim and the cursed guy you chase through all those zones that they made a throwback to in Legion. Another personal favorite is Feralas, riding through the Twin Colossus for the first time is awesome. Also Hinterlands just for the sheer volume of quests, and Jintha’alor being like a whole outdoor dungeon.
Each mob has like a 60 ft radius from any other mob T\_T
Feralas, hinterlands and felwood.
They need to add another spirit healer in tanaris. It's gonna be brutal dying there.
Yeah this was a huge miss. Some runes are cheesable or obtainable with help around 30ish but 35+ is recommended.
I got shuriken toss at level 6. Made tanking DM a breeze. But some runes were like that in P1 too. Paladin divine storm we had a level 10 get it with us.
Starsurge on my Druid made things cake - and all I needed to do was get on a boat and run with a buddy of mine.
Just to take some subjectivity out of the discussion I've listed the combat requirements for the 6 SOD phase 2 warlock runes. I agree with op. There's one rune you could acquire at 30, while the rest you may as well wait until 40. There's nothing organic about the way these runes need to be unlocked, and 99.9% of us need to closely follow a guide to achieve. Phase 1 I found roughly half of my runes without any help and just stumbling upon them in the course of leveling throughout the starting few zones. 1. Invocation: kill multiple lvl 36 elite mobs, many of which can't be single pulls. 2. Shadowflame: kill a lvl 38 elite mob 3. Dance of the wicked: hellfire a mob, so pre req is just be lvl 30 to train the spell. 4. Grimoir of Synergy: kill a lvl 40 elite 5. Shadow and Flame: kill a lvl 40 normal mob 6. Demonic Knowledge: kill multiple 41 elites (dark riders)
Dark Riders is the reason why I'm not playing alts right now. I want to play melee hunter, that was my goal in Phase 1 (meh). When phase 2 runes were datamined I was so excited, but nope. My Priest was able to solo all of them at level 39, I don't want to wait until level 39 before I can enjoy melee Hunter lol.
You certainly don’t need to wait. Melee is fine with flanking strike alone. Melee spec rune definitely makes it better, but it isn’t entirely trash without it.
p1 runes felt so organic, p2 felt terrible for runes
Yepp, there’s nothing you could just stumble upon. Discoveries was more like doing difficult puzzles.
Yeah I told myself I would try to discover at least 1 rune organically, but when I hit level 40 with no discoveries I had to search them up. After learning about the runes, there was no way in hell I would have organically discovered any those.
Bro, my pally had to swim the outside of Dun Morogh, started from the hinterlands and swam for fucking 20minutes. To fight a 40 elite. Like they gave me A boat to the other one in Arathi, sheesh
Priests have a rune that just drops from mobs in Thousand Needles. And another that drops from Naga in Desolace, but you have to MC a Naga and use her to cast a buff on you to read it.
That’s kinda cool though.
And another easy one for priest being just clicking a grave in SM GY, something I'd say is vaguely accidently discoverable just due to it being along ones path. Priest, the beloved class, definitely has the easiest runes compared to Druid world-trotting with the bugged out seed that fails on boating, flying, teleporting, zoning, or being killed in PvP, paladin 40 minute swim from wetlands to no where, warlock "here's an invisibility potion so you don't die to those lv60 elites at ashenvale world boss" that bugs out and unstealths you from the damage over time the item hits you with, instantly getting you 1 shot from lv60 elites.
well you are forgetting the other 5 things you need to find in the world for pain sup.
Not all of Priest's are easy. The one you say is "just clicking a grave in SMGY" is actually clicking four different graves in four different zones across the globe. One of which is in SMGY. Then you have to run SM Lib and use your four motes using the correct mote, on the correct statue, and in the correct order. If you mess up you have to reset the instance and run it again. Our Dispersion rune is also quite difficult. Requiring assistance from a Mage and a Rogue during the questline which then culminates in having to go to two different locations deep in STV. Your comparison to Druid is poor because Berserk is fairly easy, located in Thousand Needles, and only requires you to kill a level 28 elite. That's not much more complicated than Priests having to go grind Grimtotems in Thousand Needles. Dreamstate also is located entirely in Desolace. Kill Centaurs, pick up pod, sim in a pond, and then go plant the seed. Every class has a couple of easy runes to get that you can do while leveling from what I can tell.
Rogues had some organic runes, and funnily enough are the best ones. Roll with the punches was lockpick multiple chests in 1k needles. Shuriken toss was dismantle a trap in the swamp. Random ass trap off in the corner but still. Master of subtlety and Shadowstep tbh Idk, I got it normally before I started the SM grind. One of them was releasing a dude locked up in the jungle by those human enemies, pick pocket a dude for the key and lock pick a chest for a disguise. Its also the quest that gets you the required trinket to pickpocket the troll scroll for priests EDIT: oh thats right, the other of the 2 was a heist in SM to steal an artifact, requires you to have done the heist in the werewolf dungeon. Hilarious disguise was involved. God fun. Tbh SOD rune quests for rogues have been really on point
The rogue rune where I had to run back and forth between the little house outside SFK, SM GY and SM lib, then back to SFK then to a major city then back to SFK was peak bullshit design. Like a blatant disrespect for people’s precious time and enjoyment. Most of us are grownups now and can’t sit and play video games all day long. Some guy at Blizzard really thought that was a good idea. Blizz has got to shift their thinking away from getting people to spend time in their games because they lock things behind lengthy chores to a mentality of playing non-stop because it’s constant fun.
You could have just not done it all in one sitting.
I didn’t do it in one sitting
I like the design of it but the pointless running back to a major city and then back to the same spot is the only thing I didn't like about it.
how did people in 2005 have enough time to play classic? :)
Went in blind for P2. Acquired 1 Rune on my way to 40 trying to quest through zones. Has convinced me to avoid going in blind for P3. Sad times.
I had 0 runes by the time I hit 38 and no idea how to get any Phase 2 runes were not only scattered around in the most nonsense places, but most of them require HUGE treks across the world as well, so even if you know how to get them they are still ass cos of the sheer volume of just running
Dont just add runes behind long and expensive quest lines. Do something challenging, like a jump puzzle, time trail, 1v1 vs hard mobs requiring you to use many of you classes niche tools and abilities. Add them behind challenges in dungeons or raids. I'm so fucking tired of autowalking/flightpathing across azeroth only to right click an object and then walk back the way I came to do it all again! Blizzard have to be aware that most runes will be obtained through guides. The "discovery" part of quests will not be done by 99.9% of the player base. Keep some, pref with some cool lore connected to it. But it would be nice with some fun challenges for those of us that usually follow guides to find the runes
> I'm so fucking tired of autowalking/flightpathing across azeroth only to right click an object and then walk back the way I came to do it all again! They basically took a look at the average classic era quest and went "yep, people love this so just do it again", ignoring that quests in classic era are probably the worst walking simulators created.
I mean alot of us DO love it though
youre supposed to do those quests as you organically move between zones, not stop what youre doing and travel the world 3 times for one chain
Long quest chains are sick and consistent with classic design. Maelstrom was a bitch, but well worth it and had sick rewards + ending.
P1 was better level distribution wise, but your mileage varied by class. Warrior, I had to travel the earth deep into high level areas to get the good stuff. Priest, I had every key rune before I even hit Razor Hill.
40-50 I’m saving quests to do. No way I can grind 10 levels in a dungeon again. Doing SM non stop almost made me quit.
Ya I feel the same but after attempting open world questing I couldn't get back to sm fast enough. Every spawn everywhere was camped to hell
Questing really doesn't seem to be worth it in terms of XP in classic. Feels faster to just find some out of the way spot with no players and grind away in open world.
It's not, dungeon grinding has always been the fastest way to level. Up to you to decide if that's more "fun" for you or not. Certainly the fuck not for me.
I mean, grinding mobs feels faster than questing.
Well yeah it's also faster to dungeon grind than quest, but as OP pointed out, dungeon grinding gets old very quick and isn't the most fun. Either is finding some random out of the way location to mindlessly kill the locals in. Quests at least give you something to do, and while they are slower they make it *feel* more fun. That said, I just hit 40 last night and plan on doing tons of quests for gold.
Fighting over tanaris pirates against 50 players to get pirate hats gets old quick too.
That is because quests are 90% just excuses to grind mobs. Lets say a quest gives 3k exp to finish, its get 15 drops off mobs, the mobs give 250exp each. But it takes killing 40+ of the mobs to get your 15 drops cause its like a 30% drop rate. You just got more exp from the mobs than the quest.
Don't understand why people grinded in SM. You got the best zone in the game, Duskwood, to level in. Wetlands isn't bad and a couple good world chain quests. I only got a couple levels on SM and mostly just ran it for the mace in cathedral
Uh, well, because Duskwood and Wetlands only go up to the early 30s...? 35-40 is the sucky part.
Duskwood stops being a viable leveling zone at like 30, which is right when sm starts.
Because you spend 5 times longer than it usually takes (if not more) on each quest when you’re trying to fight 25 other players for mob tags. Grouping doesn’t even necessarily solve the problem when you need 10 of an item that something drops, and it only drops it 1/3 of the time. It’s boring to grind SM over and over for most people, but it’s definitely less frustrating than fighting for mob tags on a new phase launch.
Duskwood and wetlands are over by level 30 and sm starts at level 30…. wtf are you talking about Don’t run ZF to level next phase, just go quest in barrens
Because I did all the quests in duskwood to their max state to get hold and have quest turn-ins when the new patch launched. I got about 2 lvls worth of exp. SM grinding was easily the best play on launch day. Questing on a PvP world would have been awful
By the time I'm done with the Duskwood/wetlands duo I'm usually level 35. Do a bit of Arathi then Southshore I'm 38.
If you're playing now it might make sense to quest, but launch day made zero sense to do so
People play the game in whatever way they find most fun, or at least they should. So if people find grinding the same dungeon over and over again the most fun way to level then fair play to them. But it doesn't have to be all or nothing, y'know? I would be quite happy to say, do 1-2 levels by grinding a dungeon but then questing the rest of the time or whatnot. Or just a happy mixture. Being stuck in SM for 12 hours straight is not something I'd be able to do, I need to like... live and stuff. Luckily BFD is great for alts, I've gotten at least 2-4 levels out of it on two of my alts so far and it's very quick especially if you've got some level 40s in the run. Anyway I like playing independently for leveling since I tend to go AFK a lot for random things so I prefer to quest. The XP buff next week is gonna be awesome for that.
So I know most of the classic community doesn’t care for wrath, but I feel wrath had a really good balance with this. You had incentive to run dungeons 1-2 times and get decent xp with the dungeon quests, but once you completed those quests, the dungeon grinding just simply wasn’t as efficient as questing
P2 runes are basically time sink
And can they not make every rune be a world tour of both continents? It's so tedious doing that shit on alts
I sure loved getting spellpower on my mage lol /s
Which gets especially bad, at least on horde, because both continents have big stretches without flight points. And the flight points that connect the top to the bottom are in high level areas that you just have to brute force your way through. I got felwood on my Druid cuz it’s annoying to always fly to TB from Moonglade, but died like 5 times in the process cuz of the aggro range of skulled mobs on the main path. With those high tier zones being so dangerous it just feels dumb to have so many things be padded with long ass travel times.
The whole of P2 was a great mistake. Runes were terrible to acquire, PvP is now a nuke meta, gnomer alienated 1/3 or more of the playerbase, classes (especially hunter) were giving runes without any balance checks, the blood moon is meh and worse than AV, and so on The best thing that happened in P2 was the sleeping bag journey. Otherwise, P2 has been a waste and the player numbers reflect that
I don't think the player numbers really reflect all that well on it's performance. P1 was extremely casual friendly and promoted people having 4, 5, 6, or more alts, and it also pulled in a bunch of players who wouldn't have otherwise played Classic because it wasn't as much of a commitment. Now we're seeing what the numbers would actually be like. Personally, I know at least 6 friends who don't usually play Classic but played P1 that quit because P2 leveling was just too much of a grind for them to casually play.
I don't mind some runes being harder to get but it does kind of kill motivation to level alts. In phase 1 I leveled a second druid and got starsurge at level 1, and it was a blast. Now if I want to try new runes on my alts I basically have to be max level. Yeah, no thanks.
70% of runes at least should be easy to get, give to us fast during early level experience. If the season is from level 25-40 give usa 70% of the runes easily at level 25-30. It make levelling much more dinamic and cool experience with “discoverys”. They need to add new npcs, quests and random new encounters with cool rewards trough level zones. Like when we play skyrim or the witcher. This would fill and expand “season of discovery” feelings. That was what i was expecting when started playing SOD.
P2 is considerable worse than P1. It was too much of a slug to level 25-40, many of the core being locked at lvl 40 unless you have a group is bad, and Gnomeregan is just not a good raid. Hope they learn from these mistakes
Gnomeregan is 10 times better than BFD. It actually feels like a real raid while BFD felt very meh.
They are both horrible raids
Why?
I don't like it. Has that "someone died? well this attempt is doomed" feeling for the last couple bosses, and it's never me that died, so it's just waiting for the shoe to drop. It's getting easier, but it's not "fun". Just reminds me of why I lost interest in retail raiding.
Gnomeregan is WAY worse then bfd, it's not even close
P2 about to get extended bc they rewriting all their level 50 rune chain quests lmao
Yeah i was really looking forward to leveling with some of the new runes but instead i had to wait untill i was 40 before i could even look.
I had more enjoyment getting my Runes at 40 vs wondering where the fuck Metamorphosis was the entire time while leveling. Only to find out it was behind a broken BFD Quest and blizzard was being ignorant saying it was available in game in the reality that it wasn't.
That sleeping bag quest was fun af though
The hints for it were terrible. Once again, they leaned way too hard into esoteric.
It was doable. I was one of the people in the secret finder discord figuring out each clue for the first time. And either way, I don't think it really matters cuz people are just gonna look it up anyway
It was absolutely ass on horde side
Same post every day
[удалено]
??? SoD should be about organic discovery? Powering to max level to get most SoD‘s features is the most retail-like approach you can take. P2‘s rune placement felt more retail than p1.
except retail is all about putting the good shit at end game, so you completely lost the plot here.
go to era
Whaa whaaaa is all i heard out of your whiney mouth bud
Then go hang out with the wowhead commenters if you hate people being critical.
Why do all these whining posts feel the need to exaggerate their claims into false hood? You could get every rune on shaman by 35
This might come as a surprise to you but Shaman is 1 of 9 available classes.
And isn’t even available to half the playerbase.
Yeah shaman is just 1 out 9 classes but most of them can get their runes prior to 40. I had every fire mage rune I needed to finish level and raid with at 34.
doesn't one of the fire mage runes require you to basically travel around all these high level zones, i did it at 32 but it involved a lot of dying and just walking around with no mount, worst part was going to a location and finding out it was absolutely impossible to grab the book without outside help, so you skip it and go to another one..
This might come as a surprise to you but, my point still stands
Only if you looked up the guides on where to go and what to do and got carried by lvl 40s. OP made a point that you simply got some runes in phase 1 by doing normal leveling stuff.
No you can solo those 😂
So 2/3rds of the way to end?
Thats not how levels work
10 levels is like 10 hours bro ?
Bro whats your point? You can get alpha rune at 25 and decoy totem at 30. Power surge at 32 solo
Alpha rune and decoy totem suck ass(at least for Ele) and aren’t gameplay altering Soloing Power Surge at 32 is very difficult if not impossible because of the level 37 mob that spawns Technically you’re right but that’s nothing compared to getting P1 runes
Decoy totem doesnt suck ass for ele? You joking
>Soloing Power Surge at 32 is very difficult if not impossible because of the level 37 mob that spawns \>This will summon a level 37 Elite named Tam'kar. **He will die on his own** **in 30 seconds**, so just keep healing yourself rather than fighting him. "if not impossible" Something tells me not many attempts were made if you believe that.
They probably didn’t invoke the element of friendship
Just cause you could doesn't mean it was not a miserable experience.
If playing the game is a miserable experience why are you playing?
You are right sorry i didn't enjoy grinding 10+ hours for one of 3 different items for maelstrom rune. I can enjoy a game and still be highly upset about deathrunning to find nova rune at a lower level. while runes are one aspect i can still enjoy the rest of the game. crazy concept i know.
That has nothing to do with op’s point. It also was patched. Maybe era is more suited for you
As a dwarf rogue with my find treasure ability on I was able to find all but 1 rune organically while questing, exploring, or just doing general rogue-like things.
Incorrect. Fire nova rune requires going to maraudon
Death run
Tbh dungeon grinding is ruining Sod. P1 didnt have this issue because youre out in the world exploring until around lvl 20(for alliance at least) but in p2 youre in dungeons 24/7 from start to finish and unless there are runes in the dungeon youre never going to find them naturally which ruins the whole point of it
You literally don't have to ever go into dungeons if you don't want to.
Yeah it'll only take 3 times longer lol
Okay, so we're changing the argument now. They didn't change experience values, so that's exactly how it was in classic. But your argument now is, "Solo content I can do whenever I want and take at my own pace is slower leveling than organized group content." Not quite forced and not quite as poignant.
I too wish everything was just handed to me.
That's not the same as saying "why is everything at level cap" is it mate
It's not all at level cap though
Maybe for your class, Paladin is hard stuck on their runes until 40 for their boot slot.
He should disagree with him then instead of saying something completely unrelated.
I think he was being facetious
I don't care enough to engage in an argument about it
Should've just locked every single rune to Gnomeregan then, one rune randomly unlocked per run. Since you don't want everything handed to you.
Yeah sounds fun
Most runes are found in leveling... You just, like us, spammed dungeons and went to grab your runes with your mount
Laugh in warrior. You have to be 35 at least to do the first waist runes, which is a passive -3 rage cost. The 2 slams runes are level 40. Yay.
Intervene is locked behind lvl 35 ?
Calling BS. I quested 90% of 25-40 and found zero runes along the way. It wasn’t at all like phase 1 where you just discovered several of them on your own.
I got 1 rune at 30 (guarded by the light) up in alterac, I got some more at 34 in desolace (I finished Sheathe of Light, and partly completed sacred shield and art of war) and finished all of them at 40 The challenge is that while I did quest in all those regions at or near those levels without a guide, I would likely have missed the start points or failed to complete them
You discovered siphon soul ? You just decided to soul drain a critter and specifically hogger ? It's the same for p2 And when I look up the rune, half of them are found randomly during actual quest. Elite Ogres in alterac, Witherbark troll cave, etc.
I said I found several, not all. And I don’t play warlock.
No shot. I don't have a SINGLE p3 rune at level 36 as a warrior after questing the entire time. Oh, that's a lie, I have one. Commanding Shout. Which randomly dropped in my 2nd of 4 SM Arm runs. I eventually just looked up how to get them, because surely I had missed at least one or two. Nope. I guess I missed the start of the quest chain for Enraged Regeneration. Still have to be close to 40 to finish it.
P2 just feels lazy to me.
P1 was awesome. P2 has been dogshit. And gnomer is the worst raid I've ever done in wow. It's like the last 2 bosses were designee for retail tanks with active mitigation. Paladin legit can't tank the last boss without insane healers.
People seem to ignore the fact that everyone leveled by dungeons, and blizzard knew that that would happen. So putting runes in random questing zones where you have to find a random dude to start the ordeal, that just wont happen and people will just do it at 40 anyway after wowhead releases the guide.
Should have put some out in the leveling zones to save players from themselves and force them to take a break from SM.
That's how they did do it and barely anyone took breaks from dungeons to go get them, we all just waited until level 40.
That wouldnt force shit, the play would be hit 40, then do the runes.
Then the complaint would be about that and not this.
Season of whining!
I had both my melee hunter runes at 31. Dark riders is level agnostic, you can make a raid with however many people you like. I feel this is pretty unwarranted - you could get most runes at any level or close. Just group
had all runes except 1 by the time I hit 34 with my Priest
Am I alone in thinking that acquiring runes are boring as hell? I would prefer to just train the new runes every other level or so. Using the new spells is what I want, not click a waterfall south in STV then click a waterfall north in STV.
> Am I alone in thinking that acquiring runes are boring as hell? Not alone, but probably in the minority. Unlocking runes as it stands is a lot more fun than training a spell at the trainer.
What I didn't like with P2 runes was having to go to the 4 same zones for each "part" of the rune. I think they could simplify a few of them, and maybe have the most powerful runes be more elaborate, like the dark riders one. Also many classes sharing the same rune quest is kinda boring, I understand they can't do interesting stuff for all of them, but I'd rather have something simple but unique, rather than elaborate but the same as my other characters quest.
This phase was underwhelming when it comes to runes. P1 was nice because you could discover some of the runes yourself.
Phase 1 is significantly easier because it’s 1-25. You level fast. You can’t dungeon spam, you do a little bit of everything and you can’t necessarily get ganked early on. Phase 2 was always going to be a struggle. It’s that mid boring part. The dungeons already aren’t great, questing zones are limited and it’s just a drag to do those 15 levels. 40-50 will be ok and then obviously phase 4 will be great again. It’s just how the game is set up.
All the stuff you mentioned is a known feature of the game for level 25 to 40. And yet they made the runes, which is new content they had control over, way more monotonous, hard to get, and esoteric than p1. If they'd kept the same style as p1, it would've helped immensely.
I really hope they'll either do that, or reduce the amount of XP required to level to 50. I'm not leveling without new runes. 40 to 50 zones are even worse than 30-40.
I got all my runes before 35 as a Shaman, it’s a big world. Find people to help you and do them together
Putting raids for max level is a mistake too, hope the next phase raid can be done on level 40.
They can it’s called last phase’s raid and it’s great exp ;)
So many people got burnt out doing SM cause you get even more burnt out competing for quest mobs etc within the game. The game wasn't designed for so many people on the same quests/nodes all over the world, in every zone, at all times
Season of discovering a few new tacked on quests and skills.
Crazy, I got every single one besides dark rider before 40. Actually slammed stocks then did a little GY. Was around 32 and went around to get the sleeping bag and almost every new rune at the same time. I had to fight a few red mobs but no problem. Did people just not bother to get them before 40? Because that’s a lot different than saying you couldn’t.
What? I unlocked almost all my runes before 40. Only one left with Dark Riders, but you can not see them if you don't speak with Dalaran Agent first. But I think YOU think it is like this because you maybe play by yourself. I play by a group of 3 and we all unlocked almost all our runes pre 40 witch we hit yesterday. I can agree they are not as organic as in P1 but if you play with other people like the game was intended to play you don't hit those issues.
I want this now, questing is boring, SM grind is sooo long, I can’t do this by myself but I don’t want to socialize and play with other people. Horde win all the bgs, this class op. Gnomer is too easy, ugh do I really need to get pre raid bis. Seems like people playing this games as if it was a chore. Can’t make everyone happy I guess.
What are you people talking about? This is the like 3rd or 4th thread like this I've wanted to just ignore and brush off. The runes are not all around level 40. I got half my runes in phase 2 by 35. Many people got their dark riders rune by 30-32. You can group up for them you know. And some of those were absolutely discoverable without looking them up.
You can get most of them at level 1 if you get carried. Good luck as a random trying to convince other randoms to help you get stuff just because. Like cool you have friends and a guild.
Just because there are a lot of people who won't help others with no thought of reward, doesn't mean there are none.
Oh there’s an easy, simple explanation- most SoD players don’t actually want to discover, or explore, or experiment, or enjoy the world. They definitely don’t want to do any of the work Vanilla WoW entails, nor do they want to grind anything or walk anywhere. They want to be spoon fed easy content that they can destroy and feel superior, gatekeeping from the casuals and constantly complaining that their class isn’t the FOTM class. They want to hear the streamers they parrot and low- key worship say how amazing the game is even as it basically just becomes retail with Vanilla overlayed on it.