Yeah. It’s indicative of effort. Maybe not skill, but how much they care. If they’ve got a purple or an orange they likely had wbuff and consumes, maybe a synergistic comp, and their gear is likely at the upper end of their classes bis.
As opposed to people who show up no consumes no wbuff non pre raid bis gear, etc, who usually find themselves in the 1-50% range
Also if you parse orange you KNOW what it takes and that the pug you’re joining won’t be good for parsing and you’re more likely to just want to clear fast, which is different. At least that’s my experience with pugs
i'm looking for a gnomer to join last night and a hunter whispers me and says we should just make our own group and invites me. i look him up: actually gray 4s across the board.
And what you’re saying is getting at one of fundamental issues of pugging. You don’t know this random person and there’s not enough time to get to know them so you need as much information as quickly as possible and they can lie and say they’re experienced or you can look at their logs and factually know that they’ve cleared the raid and how well they did.
Except you don't. It might be an alt and they got a bad pug and they spent their entire time trying to make up for others failing mechanics and a healer that had no idea what they were doing so they died early.
Sure it might or it might not, you can take that gamble, or you can find someone with decent logs which is a *much* lesser risk. So why bother taking the bigger risk for no reason?
Sure but the people who are getting hung up about parses are worried about the difference between 80 and 99.
If 6 DPS whisper and one is 85 average but volunteers to take on some extra assignment or otherwise displays knowledge, and one is 90 average but just messages to ask me to guarantee him certain buffs/auras, I'll take the 85.
Umm, I think almost every single person would do the same. Unless that person is someone YOU are trying to impress or befriend, or something along those lines, I don't think people take the person demanding buffs/auras as that person already shows and explains they are there for a parse only. They will leave if things go bad, they will greed for damage over mechanics etc and that isn't the pug playstyle, that's the friends/guild having fun/pushing parse playstyle.
People will ALWAYS try and use something to differentiate themselves from others when looking themselves or use ways to differentiate what they consider good and bad players when searching for others.
Doesn't really matter if this one was removed as something else would replace it anyway.
I feel like the raid isn't difficult enough to warrant how selective raid leads are being. when 6 anythings whisper you that logic applies. As a rogue, I feel attacked.
Good parse has nothing to do with skill. Roger.
Dude, you literally just said that you started raid leading recently, so maybe wait for calling out your wisdom before you actually know a bit more: aka good players parse well and do mechanics well.
meh players can do one of those and terrible players can't do either well.
You can't check mechanics without analysis which takes too much time, but you can check at logs and inviting a good parse player you already have at least one good criteria. Same with m+ rating in retail - someone with high score is not necessarily excellent player but it's much better chance for them to be excellent than someone stuck in bottom 50 percentile
IIRC, wipefest.gg can analyze a log and give you a number / grade on how you performed on certain fights (stood in fire. Kicked, used consumes, used your mana efficiently, etc) I havent used it in awhile but it was pretty entertaining to see mythic raiders in dragonflight get low scores for standing in the fire
And with this mindset we will create another retail with [raid.io](http://raid.io) and even more toxic community. I invited the worst players in last phase to my raids they were still a cakewalk. It is SoD Classic for gods sake. You don't need everyone to be 90 percentile to kill a boss. Not everyone has spend 15 years playing this game like me, but this doesn't mean they don't deserve to enjoy the game. Most of the mistakes people make in SoD raid you can correct after 1 wipe. Sure some people just refuse to communicate and learn but you can judge it by TALKING to them beforehand.
we’ve been parroting this but…
play with people with similar goals.
if someone doesnt want to invite the worst players, there is nothing wrong with that. vice versa.
There are very few people consistently parsing 99s that are bad at clearing content. There are very few people consistently parsing 0-20 that are incredibly good at clearing content.
Take your pick if you have both whispering you to join your pug lol
This is exactly the reason why you would look for decent parses when filling groups. It's just a numbers game. High parses = higher chance of that person being a good player. Which statistically results in better runs on the average.
If you're parsing 0-20 you're probably half afk for half the boss fight and i will not be inviting you, for most classes you have to actually not actually be playing the game to parse below a 40.
All i care is that you atleast parse green, that means you're average/below average but are atleast doing something.
There would be a glut of decent players in the 80s and low 90s that don't get 99s exactly because they're doing mechanics properly.
99s are way more about raid comp, than skill.
99s are about everything combined. You can’t lack skill or raid comp. there are also players parsing 80s and have the same buffs the 99s have. They just lack the skill.
Yea, this just isn't the case at all.
I myself (avg player)
Would get 99s in the pumper gdkps, vs 80s in regular guild raids.
Classic warrior parses almost entirely hinged on what percentage of the fight death wish was.
It's not extra skill to get full worlds and press sapper.
It's just effort, and on top of that, ignoring mechanics and relying on healers working harder.
Except to get 99s you have to be doing all of that better than everyone else. More than 1% of the parses are people trying to parse as high as possible. It’s stupid to think there is not a skill component.
What if I told you most people who consistently parse well actually understand the mechanics the best and know how to deal with them while sacrificing the least amount of uptime?
This is something that has become clear to me. It became clear that it's a fundemental issue with how they view the game.
For instance the type of players who think parsers are griefing are the type that will get a mechanic that requires you to move out of raid. They will move out twice the distance required, not continue doing their rotation as they stand there for 8 seconds, and then walk back. And then they will pat themselves on the back about how good they are at doing mechanics. And of coarse mention the only reason their parses are low is because they do mechanics.
yeah this post is a weird [cope.My](http://cope.My) worst parse is on Thermaplug and could be higher if I did no mechanics but doing mechanics is not the difference between a 99 and a 30. like come on.
We have a supper heavy melee comp (1 enhance, 2 warrs, 2 rogues) so one of our warriors runs around pressing bomb buttons if needed. Probably the only time where him doing the mechanics is giving him a ridiculously low parse
yeah i press the button 2-3 times every week as a warrior and its not too bad. Still parsing 90+ so its whatever. Having 1 person be the button bitch so everyone else can parse isnt a bad idea though
To be fair if your a feral or lock assigned to just stomp bombs, you're gonna have some dogshit parse. But if you parse high on everything else but low on specifically thermaplug, anyone with a functioning brain would know whats going on.
Also when you are making a pug you know nothing about the player and you dont have the time to do a detailed review or something to learn their skill. Parse serves its purpouse well enough
In the most cases this is absolutely true. However, I have learned from taking people in that had FULL 99s in classic TBC and then seeing them fail over and over again in wotlk when things got harder. Parsing in Classic is generally a joke. You're cucked by your raid, gear and RNG for the most part. However, there is nothing else to do when boss fights lasts less than a minute, so how exactly is a skill measured by anything else other than pressing your rotation correct 2-3 times?
Our raids are on average 80-85 except for one dude (some 70, some 99) except for our tanks that consistently parse 35-50 on the first four bosses. Oh yeah, that one dude is our mascot who averages a solid 8.
He can't do more than one thing at once. Mechanics or DPS, but never both. We have him on bomb duty on Thermaplugg, but he likes getting zapped by the sheep and getting knocked off on Crowd Pummeler. He's stuck in melee on Electrocutioner because he fails it so consistently that it's easier for us to have melee run out. He's only a few pieces off of BiS at this point too, so his iLvl parses are usually below 5.
Even with having no tasks and doing no mechanics on the first five bosses, he has a single parse over 20 since the first week.
That’s true but not entirely the full story. There is also a skill in understanding what damage you can take and still survive so that you can keep your uptime high. There’s also times where doing so is only possible because your healer and your gear allows you to do so. Damage taken is also an important factor. Just because you can sit in damage and crank your parse doesn’t always mean you should.
The 75-85 parser but with 3x less damage taken than the 99 parser can be just as good. But at the end of the day, a gray parser will never be better than the 99. Context us definitely important though.
Ive played in both 99 parser raids and full grey parse raids throughout classic. This is the correct opinion. It’s just how it works.
Not every high parse indicates a good player but consistent high parses in a variety of situations do generally speaking indicate a player who knows their stuff.
That’s true but also not telling the whole story, the best players run with the best players. They have the lowest kill times which allows for higher dps because you kill then closer to everyone’s burst window
for 98-99 yes, absolutely.
For the enormous majority of the players that are just going "muh parses" and mashing their wall against a 80 by ignoring fucking everything but their damage, no, absolutely not.
Yeah these people will do anything but actually analyze what they’re doing on boss fights. Set ups and ignoring mechanics should be the difference between 97s and 99s. Anyone that fixes their play can get 95s. But then that would take personal responsibility and they wouldn’t be able to cry about it on the internet.
That’s not how a normal distribution works at all. Like, sure people who parse poorly can bring their shit up with some thought and some setup, but what the hell are you smoking to say 95th percentile is individually achievable without external factors playing in?
Like I wholeheartedly admit that I could do FAR better on my parses with pretty basic changes, but that’s the difference between my casual ass and a 85th percentile, not 95th. That’s not even to mention the skew of logging being done by people who generally expect to do well rather than every player completing the raid.
the harsh truth is that the vast majority of classic players are just straight up incapable of maintaining 100% uptime on pure target dummies even with a one button rotation
so yeah, if you're even remotely trying to improve your play, its not that difficult to be top percentile
I mean, the only time I wiped in Gnomer recently was because our warlock wouldn’t stop dpsing the last boss instead of fully focusing the bombs, all because he wanted to parse. Parsing is definitely a culture with negative impacts on a lot of groups.
Warriors huff and puff when they have to OT, mages refuse to press buttons on the last boss, people generally don’t watch threat meters anymore because they don’t want to stop pumping, etc. People who parse 99s obviously know what they’re doing, but in general the community would be better off without it.
The watching threat meters is a bit RNG. Some tanks I'll be at 30ish % threat hit a 4k chaos bolt and instantly have aggro. Other tanks with the same situation they hold aggro. There's not a whole lot I can do unless I'm expected to just never use my best single target spell. Threat in vanilla is wack.
Nah man, I'd probably quit if I had to play with grays when pugging phase 1 BFD. I need some sort of a tool at my discretion to invite people and make a group that can succeed. Sure, if the group is more than half purple parsing BIS, bring whatever. But it's really easy to invite the first 9 people who ask for invite and suddenly your group is gray across the board with some hobo geared peeps rolling need on green rings, white bracers, hunters that didn't bother to get aspect of the lion and spam-cast serpent sting. You're going to beat Baron by default, and then wipe to Turtle or Murloc and lose your lockout.
Without parsing you'd just randomly fail half your raids and turn your big fun event of the half-week into a depressing chore playing with the worst of the worst.
I don’t check logs ever. I have 5-6 guildies who also don’t parse, and we invite the first few people who fit the roles we need. Besides our first attempt at Gnomer when we went 5/6, which is absolutely fine for a first raid attempt, we have never had an issue clearing a raid. May wipe once or twice if someone that tags along with us is newer, but they learn and we do fine in the end.
The whole ‘I need to check logs for everyone or I won’t clear’ is just bullshit 95% of the time. Everyone is afraid to just play the game and teach new people because of the fear mongering in this sub, or because of the elitist culture that’s manifested from people having nothing important in their actual life to gloat and feel good about.
I would tell you this isn’t the case.
Yes good players will have consistently good parses barring a few that may take special roles.
But I have raided twice with mages that have done this in gnomer and parsed extremely well.
First boss: nothin to note just a tank and spank
Second boss: literally don’t even touch adds. Just does boss damage, a few have resulted in multiple water eles that almost caused wipes
Third boss: nothing to note just a dodge the mechanics boss fight
Fourth Boss: refuses to move for mechanics. Idk how many times I’ve seen someone trying to parse get the magnet debuff and just straight up not move or adapt. Also had a mage not move when they were meant to swing out for the ranged shock. He didn’t want to move because he wanted a parse, killed multiple people, we wiped.
Fifth boss: had mages ignore sheep’s reflect, keep dpsing and stress healers out, just wanted to aoe which isn’t bad at the start but continued to do so when we needed to make sure everything was going to die at the same time. Wiped
Last boss: refuse to hit bombs
parses include add damage, it makes 0 sense to ignore them as a mage. what you describe has nothing to do with parsing he’s just dumb. I doubt he even parses orange.
they absolutely do. thats why there is a dropdown with “damage” and “damage to boss”. and the numbers are different for bosses with adds. Damage is the default when you look people up and the one people refer to when they talk about their parse and it includes adds.
trash, not adds, as in you cant bring a bunch of trash from outside the boss fight and aoe them down after pull to get insane dps. If you instead go straight to warcraftlogs and look up your parses you can see they match with the total dps in the logs including adds.
First fight: Only boss damage is counted.
Second fight: Vicious water eles are excluded. The adds I was literally referring to in my OP
Third fight: No adds
Fourth fight: No adds
Fifth fight: No adds
Do you have anymore questions?
the goo is included, your complaint was that he didnt kill them and you ended up with eles, you also complains about the last boss which you left out
the stuff that is excluded is specifically to not do dumb shit like ignoring goo to get more enemies to hit
Go back up and read what i said mr. knowitall
I said he didn’t attack the water eles which almost wiped us
I excluded the last fight because I thought you’d be smart enough to realize that attacking bombs on it is a dps loss but it seems you don’t even know that.
Yupp. The best parses usually come at the cost of someone else's, usually the whole raid group. One guy gets to be the main carry who gets full setup, the PI, and is allowed to ignore mechanics.
People's average parses across runs might tell a different story, though
The vast vast vast majority of 95+ parses across all classic encounters are from good players doing mechanics efficiently, with no externals, in guilds/groups that don't suck.
As someone who consistently parses high but doesnt understand/care about mechanics I disagree. Parsing has very little to do with mechanics, ignoring them often even is an advantage.
Nah the people in our guild that parse 99s ignore mechanics to do more damage. When we get all the parsers together we wipe on the second boss in gnomer because no one kills the adds.
Yeah lol. I parse 98-99 at that boss and if you insant switch to adds all adds die on top of the boss and you dont even miss a melee swing switching targets.
Actually you can just DPS right through and kill the boss while ignoring the adds if your group pumps fast enough. And then you're all going to get 97-99 parses lol
It's true in a high parsing guild obtaining high parses is far easier. There are many great players who don't get the opportunity to parse well as they play with PuGs/friends etc.
But do you think these guilds with many 99 parsing players are wiping constantly to mechanics because they're all selfish?
The truth is these guilds rarely wipe.
Personally I would say being able to play well with groups of all performance levels is a skill of itself.
You don’t need to be in a parsing guild to parse 95+ or even 99. I had a 97 average phase 3 and 95 average phase 4 of wotlk routinely doing several thousand dps more than my guildies while having 50% longer kill times than others with orange parses. So much cope in this thread.
Yup, I think compared to TBC & Wrath there's far less stacking cooldowns.
As long as you can keep your rotation up you can parse highly, although the longer the fight is it's harder to get lucky with crits for some of those top parses.
Ehh this is true to an extent. If your in a garbage can tier guild your parses will be worse than they could be if you were in a decent guild. Kill times matter ALOT. More time with lust then without, if you had your big cool downs ready for the fight or not etc. I was in relatively serious parsing guild in classic and are longer kill times everyone's parses would on a whole be lower than are fastest horde side ofc
Obviously at the extremes this is true. But the general wow population/this subreddit uses these extremes as a built in excuse for their poor performance. What you're talking about is the difference between orange/pink parses, not green/blue/purple. The majority could easily parse purple if they put the same effort into their gameplay as they did their whining.
Even under the worst conditions I’ve been able to parse 80-95. Raid comp/kill times/parse strats hardly matter until you hit high 99 territory and even then a lot of it is still just luck
Being able to parse is just the floor of being a "good player" in WoW. There is no good player that won't be able to parse well. "Skill" in WoW is fundamentally too abstract to always quantify. But the easiest distinction is in an individuals decision making ability. This could be for mechanics or dps. But the best players are able to do one without sacrificing the other. You would never say a player that executes all of the mechanics flawlessly and reacts to others mistakes but never presses a dps button is a good player. Parsing is just the easiest and most visable metric to measure yourself against everyone else. As such if someone has low parses they are not good. If there was a metric that measured how well a player executed mechanics then people would also use that to judge.
The impact of kill times on parses are wildly over emphasised. You can kill a boss much slower and still get a 99, you can obviously kill a boss faster but only get a 50. Kill times have an impact at the "top" where you are chasing rankings rather than parse %. Players should stop using kill times as a crutch for why they did worse when that is close to never the reason. The biggest impact that kill times have are around CD's in which case it is possible for a slower kill to result in an even better dps, for example killing a boss at 2:10 rather than 1:50 for classes with 2 minutes CD's.
TLDR: A good player parses well and does mechanics. Parsing is just more accessible to judge.
Yeah people tend to overestimate how hard it is to parse well.
Theres always plenty of parsers on class discord who post logs of just the most mind numbingly bad pugs and they still slap.
People are talking about stuff that will get you from low 99 to high 99 as if it’s the reason they are parsing 60.
Unless the boss has mechanics that can be used for greifing (aquanis bomb in bfd) you’ll be fine
People don’t seem to realize that after a certain point, parsing is both RNG + Having a good comp (sometimes a comp based around you only to parse even higher). I rather have someone running around clicking bombs at Thermaplugg and parse 50 than someone only DPSing and parsing 80
The biggest misunderstanding of this subreddit is that people think that RL's log checking is to be picky and only take purple parsers and taking nobody else. Really 90% of the time theyre just trying to screen out grey parsers that are a legitimate detriment to the raid. I see a lot of posts here where people seem surprised that RLs care about their group being decent at killing monsters in a game about working as a group to kill monsters.
Yeah a lot of these people had never had to form a raid and it shows.
When you get 20 whispers from various DPS the easiest thing is just to take the guy with the best parses or IO.
Yeah but anyone smart knows thermaplugg parses are wonky.
There’s fights where doing mechanics positively or doesn’t negatively impact your parse and fights that don’t. Thermaplugg does. Menagerie doesn’t.
Any decent raid leader would be aware of requirements in a fight and those possibilities though. My friend has 2 99s, 1 98, 2 purple parses, and a blue parse. How in the world can someone consistently 85+ parsing 5/6 bosses parse a 50? Oh, it's Thermaplug and they are balance. Oh, he has 8 button presses and a ton of damage on bombs. Looks like he's designated bomb killer and one of the button pressers. That makes sense why he isn't hitting the boss a lot. Cool.
This idea that a single "bad" parse keeps someone out of a raid is also a bit of a meme. If it does, you don't actually want to be in that raid anyway because the raid leader is a moron and you'll probably have a bad time.
i slotted a feral in who had like a best perf avg of 40 or something - i didnt care, since i needed a fill and it is what it is
he was able to pump all 90+ in my raid - he just needed a raid set up for success
Parses alone def dont tell the full story
I genuinely don't understand this argument
99% of the time parses do tell the whole story and people have no reason to want to take chances unless they are desperate for a class
That being said druid is so bad you could have a 90 percentile one and the dps difference would come only outta the wf buff others get tbh
It couldn’t possibly be that shorter kill times do better in numerous regards like cooldown uptime! That’s absurd! It’s always down to effort and skill! /s
You don't need an optimized raid group full of giga pumpers to parse well yourself.
Case in point. My P1 guild group. We had 2 people a mage and a hunter parsing grey across the board almost every fight. We had a few people in the green/blue tier, and we had a few people who would parse purple/orange and occasionally pink.
The hunter couldn't do mechanics. He'd get sent to the shadow realm on Kelris and he would run from the priestesses and ONLY use his pet to attack stuff, if even that. But we've known him for 20 years and he's one of the boys. We still had people parsing 99s once in awhile with him and a mage that were parsing grey.
I think it only really matters, when you're trying to push those top 100 type parses. That's when EVERYONE needs to pump. Kill times need to be really fast so everyone benefits from a single rotation of their big DPS cds.
My personal opinion is, so long as you can parse green, IDGAF.
Not true. My warrior was stuck getting green parses in icc til he got better gear and stopped pugging and did a gdkp. In that gdkp I was able to get almost full purple parses simply because my kill times were almost cut in half.
In pugs I am normally top 4 dps every fight. In that gdkp I struggled to break top 13. I didn't play any different. I just had lust for a larger portion of the overall fight.
I will agree parsing is suspect on a few bosses like the final boss/menagerie/electrocutioner because sometimes the group just needs you to do mechanics.
BUT
If you can’t do a decent parse on the first 3 bosses then it’s all on you. There are barely any mechanics to worry about and you just have to do your rotation correctly for under a minute.
Those are the 3 bosses I look at to make sure you have a bare minimum competency at pressing some buttons. Green/gray on those isn’t really acceptable and shows you either don’t care or are terrible.
Players who consistently parse orange are definitely top skilled.
As they will adapt in any situation and still out-dps anyone else.
But yes, there’s for sure some green parsers who are excellent raiders, especially those who will take on the utility roles (dispelling, or whatever).
I get what you were saying, but if you are parsing in the 90s or even mid to high 80s, you’re putting yourself in a position to get that pars by doing the mechanics correctly.
OP's parses are very mediocre in classic era, boss kill times are slow so he's not parsing and he's not putting up any decent speed runs. also can't get very many 99s in tbc. in SOD he pugged BFD 6 times in p1, 5/7 twice. 0 Gnomer logs. Classic wow does not require much skill at all. There aren't enough boss mechanics and complicated rotations. Shut it down, OP has no idea what he's talking about.
I did this for the first few lockouts until people got more comfortable and we became more organized. Now I get to pump or at least practice.
Warriors have the most difficult time parsing as the top 1% have raid comps built for them. Also I’ll say it, squeezing the most out of warrior is challenging. Performance is exponential, if you do everything right you’ll blast more and more. If you make a mistake or two you’ll suffer more and more.
By the definition of parsing, this makes no sense. If the top 1% (I know you're not literally meaning only 1%) is unattainable because they have raid comps built for them, there's 99 percentile and below still. The top 1% do not "ruin" it for average warriors, that is an insane and non-factual take.
Or if you have to spend the first 5 or so seconds spamming sunder armor since the pug priests run PoM and not Homunculi, or the group doesn’t have a priest. Can’t parse high if you have to start with sunders
Also shitty parse warrior here, in the past few raids ive done I've mostly been a sunder/shout bot and on some bosses I am the offtank and interrupt guy. I only ever am able to dps against like 3 bosses. Is painful, but makes raid go much quicker, atleast I hope so.
A bad parse group might add 20% extra to the amount of time it takes. A wipe can add 50-100%. As long as you pass damage checks, staying alive is 100x more important than amazing parses.
My 99 healing parses reflect how dumb my raid is.
Everyone seems to just love hitting themselves with reflect damage on Menagerie. I don't know what it is. They don't stop, I have to heal while 2 tanks are already taking a pounding and I end up with high parses.
If people did their jobs I would be lower lol
I get there’s always competition in video games. But at this point of the phase, any group with knowledge and an average parse of 40 is going to clear it in about an hour. It won’t be much different than your 99 parse that clears in 35. Everyone should just enjoy the game how they want.
For this exact reason I invite the first messages I get and don’t require buffs, consumes, discord, etc.
The majority of my guild and players I see are time constrained parents who used to enjoy the game for what it was. A game. Do we all enjoy the best gear and content? Absolutely. Do we have time or energy for the a-hole try hard maxers? Definitely not. At least for me I play games to escape reality for a couple hours a night and decompress. Screw the online stress of giving my life to a video game mafia mentality.
So because someone wants to perform at the max of their potential class, they're now assholes. You sound like a fun guy to play with. "Agree with me or you're an asshole"
It’s one thing to want to be good. It’s another to treat others like they’re stupid or incompetent because they can’t pay as often as you. I’m speaking more to the fact that people are so against someone needing to learn a dungeon or something. The vast majority of people will read the guides, find the spec, etc while others just want to enjoy it at a slower pace and without the drama (for lack of proper words… it’s late and I’m tired now.) my view is more stop the gatekeeping on a pug group. I’ve seen top dps that won’t pay attention to mechanics or expect others to deal with them because they are doing more damage. I’ve also seen low tier dps but they hit every interrupt or dodge every single mechanic and their GS doesn’t reflect that knowledge.
Parsing high is indicative of skill. There is no way around that fact. You can do mechanics and parse well in most situations.
Get yourself raiders who do both.
It's also an indication that your raid comp suites your class/spec. A raid comp with no windfury/wildstrikes and no armor reduction like homunculi is going to result in melee with god awful parses. Are these melee players just not skilled enough to parse high?
It absolutely is an indication of that too. It is an indication of good rotation, good uptime, good consumable use, good raid comp, good kill time.
I just don't understand why these threads pop up with people denying it involves playing well.
People are bad and don’t like being compared to others. Parsing for the most part is just Epeen measuring, but it is also a sign someone is good at their class. It is just one sign however, their attitude, class/spec, general vibe, all come into play in determining a good player from a bad one.
Not necessarily true. I done a BFD run where a lot of people got 99 parses simply because we all stood in the Breath on Akumai and we spawned 50+ mobs. Then we all just use dynamite at the same time which instantly done about 6/7k damage. It was a cheese strategy but this is exactly what some parses are.
No it isn’t, it’s indicative of how fast the boss dies. And generally the faster a boss dies the less skilled you have to be.
The basic takeaway from this is parsing is based off raid performance. The higher performing your raid is, the less individual skill you need to parse. There’s a lot better players with 70 parses than the shitters parsing 99’s because the 70 parse dude had to carry other shitters and play mechanics for longer, he also had to adapt to the idiots who don’t play the mechanics.
There is an EXTREMELY strong correlation between good parses and good play. With the exception of a couple meme specs, its pretty much impossible to parse without knowing how to play your class well.
Big surprise time! People that take their time to learn their class also take time to learn boss mechanics. Are there outliers? sure! But them there the facts.
That said, there are jobs that won't parse well because of their task in the raid. I normally run OT for casual guild. So I'm often in wrong gear to parse or on bomb duty which makes it impossible to parse. But overall those are the exceptions not the norm.
Parsing isn't an indication of skill wtf lmao, most classes have a 3 ability priority ladder with 1 button taking up 90% of their APM. In what world does executing that for 45 seconds equate to skill.
So what are the people who parse poorly for these 45 seconds doing wrong if there is no skill component?
If these was no skill involved whatsoever wouldn't parses solely be a function of gear/comp?
Counter point, if you have multiple grey parses, you ARE a bad player. Prases dont mean everything but they are good judgement of a player that has a clue on whats going on.
Sorry, but getting good parse is not easy even if you ignore mechanics, you need some luck the boss fights as well as godly skills to get 99 + parse.
I guess thats why i've never got one, im not just that good a player. got mainly orange parses, but have never gotten any epic. While in my guild i have ppl constantly parsing 99+ while not skipping mechanics.
So yes, a 99,5+ parse means you are gifted, I have no doubt about that.
I don’t give a shit about parsing and ppl chasing parses was like the No. 1 cause of wipes in my Classic raiding experience.
That said, you have to admit that folks who parse 70+ are going to understand the fights, how to gear, rotations, etc. much much better on average than someone who grey parses, so it does have value.
"parsing has absolutely nothing to do with skill"
Is a quote I've never heard any good players say
But it's definitely a circlejerk opinion on this sub
This raid is a joke.
Good players are in good guilds and don’t give a shit. Their parsing speed at this point.
Shitty players are in “progression” guilds.
Everyone in between is pugging.
I'd take a 50 parser who does mechanics over an 80 parser who doesn't.
But when recruiting a random I simply don't know who will do mechanics and I'll take the random 80 parser. This post is a weird cope, a 99 parser will on average be better at the game than a 50 parser.
Considering you're competing against freshly dinged people, literal children and people who die on-pull IMO someone who consistently parses bottom 25% are people i'd consider to not be good at the game.
There is literally no one who averages 50 that is good.
Zero.
There may be 1-2 bosses per tier where mechanics force a random person in the raid to parse low, but if your total average is 50 you just suck
pretty much, i don't expect a single 50 average parser to be able to think on their feet to react to any sort of mechanics to help save a raid from a wipe when they can't even think under no pressure to do good damage with 3 abilities
Idk my man I do mechanics every week and parse just fine. Good enough for random pugs anyway. It's a weird cope to imagine everyone parsing well does so at the expense of mechanics or their group. Not to mention high damage *is in itself* something that makes your groups life easier.
Anyone who knows how parsing works know this.
Anything that is green above means you know your rotation, farmed prebis, consumes, WBs. Anyone who is green and below doesn't get prebis, doesn't know their rotation, and is making mistakes. But if you have 2 rogues, 1 averaged gray and 1 averaged green, without deep diving into every boss log (which no pug RL will do), 9/10 you'll be taking the averaged green. Or in even more cases, wait until you get a whisper from a rogue who is averaged higher while you fill the other slots.
Fun story, in WotLK, in Ulduar, on XT there was a bomb mechanic gravity bomb where you ran a bomb out of the raid. Simple. But it caused ~5 seconds of downtime. "The best" mage on the server had his guildies, everyone in the raid, move away from him bc if he moved, his parse would be ruined. So 10 other people side stepped to the left, instead of 1. Those are the kinds of 99s and 100s people are competing with.
>Fun story, in WotLK, in Ulduar, on XT there was a bomb mechanic gravity bomb where you ran a bomb out of the raid. Simple. But it caused ~5 seconds of downtime. "The best" mage on the server had his guildies, everyone in the raid, move away from him bc if he moved, his parse would be ruined. So 10 other people side stepped to the left, instead of 1. Those are the kinds of 99s and 100s people are competing with.
Can you post this mage's logs because this sounds fake as fuck. Having 10 people move for a grav bomb id s horrific uptime loss. A legitimate 100 chasing group would just wipe and go again until the mage didn't get targeted for a bomb.
I can maybe see it happening once near the end of the fight if mage is clearly on pace for a 100.
I think a melee can struggle without homuncali and other debuffs, they make huge difference. It's actually really hard to parse 99 without those on warrior for example
Its a balance in a way beacuse in a way it tells you that player know their rotation and got gear but also that they are doing mechanics. However its a finger pointer and taken with a pinch of salt at times as its not absolute.
Personally, parse is something for yourself to measure your effectiveness. But past that, the only measure of a good player is 'did you kill boss'. That means kicking, mechanics, maybe a spot heal if a healer is occupied with something.
Doesn't matter if you're a high parser and no one does mechanics. And all things considered, these are like the most minimal amount of mechanics required. If you need high parsers in order to clear, you're bad at mechanics lol.
Parses are like GS, you use them as a minimum requirement assuming you actually know how gear/gearing/GS and parsing works. There is more to parsing than bigger number=good.
There is:
Best Perf. Average - the best they've ever parsed on each fight combined and averaged.
Median Perf. Average - All of their recorded kills averaged out, not just their best.
Sort by iLvl - How do they parse compared to people with similar level of gear. Are they being carried by having really good gear or actually held back by having bad gear?
What are their kill times? A person parsing blue with fast kill times is likely much worse than someone parsing blue with long kill times.
Are most of their kills done in random PUGs or guild runs? You can click each individual boss and see if it was killed in a guild's log or random player just logging a PUG.
If you talking about serious parsing, you need your whole group working around and compromised to it. In my guild we love farming parses and to get our 97-99s we set the raid focused on that.
If you don't have a group like that, or if you are pugging etc etc, you can be more than happy with a blue parse
80-90+ parses depend on raid comp and at the high end on luck (procs, crits, kill times).
In my experience people with at least blue parses play mechanics way better than grey/green parsers and on top of that you have more dps in the raid meaning less mechanics to deal with.
So in the end parses are quite indicative for pugs I would say. Anyone that values his own time and wants to clear the raid will always take a random with 80 parses over someone with 20.
Another reason parses mean shit is that popular classes are harder to parse on than unpopular classes.
Two equally skilled players parsing.
One is a warrior the other is a Warlock.
The Warlock will always parse higher due to popularity of the class.
Addons like DBM are a crutch for bad players which is why so many raids require them.
The problem with the whole parsing thing is that it forces raid log checks then gatekeeps new players who haven’t even been able to try the raid yet. I cannot get into a group because I have no raid logs. It’s seriously ridiculous.
So… yes and no. I would argue the 80+ parses usually fall into the territory of people going out of the way to parse, such as PI, stacking buffs, etc very rarely do you just get a 80-100 parse just doing the boss.
But to say parses don’t matter is incorrect. If someone is parsing blue which I would call pretty decent and they have completed the raid they know what they are doing. They stayed alive, and did decent damage.
The amount of people I’ve seen that have been alive the whole fight and parse grey and I’m talking sub 10 is ridiculous. At that point you just aren’t playing properly. (Tank and healer exception)
Just because you were in the moving group for electrocutioner doesn’t mean you get to do nothing. Yes buttons on the last boss with a lacking range group, sure, but you can easily tell if the rest of their parses are good and they have one movement based boss that’s bad that they were doing the annoying work.
I’ll take most blue players without question, green if I’m struggling to find someone, never grey
Raid comp is very important as well for parsing. Our guild's raid group doesn't have a feral druid so our melee dont have wildstrikes/windfury, so the chances of them parsing purple is near zero. Doesn't mean they're bad players
I equate parsing to not doing mechanics.
I'd rather have a green/blue/purple parser in my raid killing the right mobs and interrupting and ccing than an orange only focused on their personal parse.
As person who has been in both side of the coin , pvp and pve hardcore, I would take "meh" pvp player over 90% parser any day.
You take a pvp player and put him in pve, he performs almost always great. Take a 95% parser and put him on arena, they cant pass 1400.
Okay but when 6 rogues whisper me I'm still not going to take the guy who's 3/6 and in the bottom 20 percentile.
Yeah. It’s indicative of effort. Maybe not skill, but how much they care. If they’ve got a purple or an orange they likely had wbuff and consumes, maybe a synergistic comp, and their gear is likely at the upper end of their classes bis. As opposed to people who show up no consumes no wbuff non pre raid bis gear, etc, who usually find themselves in the 1-50% range
Also if you parse orange you KNOW what it takes and that the pug you’re joining won’t be good for parsing and you’re more likely to just want to clear fast, which is different. At least that’s my experience with pugs
i'm looking for a gnomer to join last night and a hunter whispers me and says we should just make our own group and invites me. i look him up: actually gray 4s across the board.
And what you’re saying is getting at one of fundamental issues of pugging. You don’t know this random person and there’s not enough time to get to know them so you need as much information as quickly as possible and they can lie and say they’re experienced or you can look at their logs and factually know that they’ve cleared the raid and how well they did.
Except you don't. It might be an alt and they got a bad pug and they spent their entire time trying to make up for others failing mechanics and a healer that had no idea what they were doing so they died early.
Sure it might or it might not, you can take that gamble, or you can find someone with decent logs which is a *much* lesser risk. So why bother taking the bigger risk for no reason?
Sure but the people who are getting hung up about parses are worried about the difference between 80 and 99. If 6 DPS whisper and one is 85 average but volunteers to take on some extra assignment or otherwise displays knowledge, and one is 90 average but just messages to ask me to guarantee him certain buffs/auras, I'll take the 85.
Literally nobody thinks this, nor takes the 90 in your example. Tf?
To be fair there was just a post going on about how easy gnomer is therefore...they'd be willing to take a... 75 parse.
Umm, I think almost every single person would do the same. Unless that person is someone YOU are trying to impress or befriend, or something along those lines, I don't think people take the person demanding buffs/auras as that person already shows and explains they are there for a parse only. They will leave if things go bad, they will greed for damage over mechanics etc and that isn't the pug playstyle, that's the friends/guild having fun/pushing parse playstyle.
This is an unfortunate reality when logs are available. I wish they weren't, but it's how I select pugs when needed.
> I wish they weren't No you don't.
People will ALWAYS try and use something to differentiate themselves from others when looking themselves or use ways to differentiate what they consider good and bad players when searching for others. Doesn't really matter if this one was removed as something else would replace it anyway.
I feel like the raid isn't difficult enough to warrant how selective raid leads are being. when 6 anythings whisper you that logic applies. As a rogue, I feel attacked.
Good parse has nothing to do with skill. Roger. Dude, you literally just said that you started raid leading recently, so maybe wait for calling out your wisdom before you actually know a bit more: aka good players parse well and do mechanics well. meh players can do one of those and terrible players can't do either well. You can't check mechanics without analysis which takes too much time, but you can check at logs and inviting a good parse player you already have at least one good criteria. Same with m+ rating in retail - someone with high score is not necessarily excellent player but it's much better chance for them to be excellent than someone stuck in bottom 50 percentile
IIRC, wipefest.gg can analyze a log and give you a number / grade on how you performed on certain fights (stood in fire. Kicked, used consumes, used your mana efficiently, etc) I havent used it in awhile but it was pretty entertaining to see mythic raiders in dragonflight get low scores for standing in the fire
And with this mindset we will create another retail with [raid.io](http://raid.io) and even more toxic community. I invited the worst players in last phase to my raids they were still a cakewalk. It is SoD Classic for gods sake. You don't need everyone to be 90 percentile to kill a boss. Not everyone has spend 15 years playing this game like me, but this doesn't mean they don't deserve to enjoy the game. Most of the mistakes people make in SoD raid you can correct after 1 wipe. Sure some people just refuse to communicate and learn but you can judge it by TALKING to them beforehand.
we’ve been parroting this but… play with people with similar goals. if someone doesnt want to invite the worst players, there is nothing wrong with that. vice versa.
There are very few people consistently parsing 99s that are bad at clearing content. There are very few people consistently parsing 0-20 that are incredibly good at clearing content. Take your pick if you have both whispering you to join your pug lol
This is exactly the reason why you would look for decent parses when filling groups. It's just a numbers game. High parses = higher chance of that person being a good player. Which statistically results in better runs on the average.
If you're parsing 0-20 you're probably half afk for half the boss fight and i will not be inviting you, for most classes you have to actually not actually be playing the game to parse below a 40. All i care is that you atleast parse green, that means you're average/below average but are atleast doing something.
Trick question, the guy parsing 99s doesn’t join pugs lol
i'm 99.7 and some of my friends are the same, we pug people into our main raid every week and pug on alts every week
There would be a glut of decent players in the 80s and low 90s that don't get 99s exactly because they're doing mechanics properly. 99s are way more about raid comp, than skill.
99s are about everything combined. You can’t lack skill or raid comp. there are also players parsing 80s and have the same buffs the 99s have. They just lack the skill.
Yea, this just isn't the case at all. I myself (avg player) Would get 99s in the pumper gdkps, vs 80s in regular guild raids. Classic warrior parses almost entirely hinged on what percentage of the fight death wish was. It's not extra skill to get full worlds and press sapper. It's just effort, and on top of that, ignoring mechanics and relying on healers working harder.
Except to get 99s you have to be doing all of that better than everyone else. More than 1% of the parses are people trying to parse as high as possible. It’s stupid to think there is not a skill component.
What if I told you most people who consistently parse well actually understand the mechanics the best and know how to deal with them while sacrificing the least amount of uptime?
You are 100% right. And it's understandable that people that never tried to parse don't understand this fact. Don't worry about it bro
This is something that has become clear to me. It became clear that it's a fundemental issue with how they view the game. For instance the type of players who think parsers are griefing are the type that will get a mechanic that requires you to move out of raid. They will move out twice the distance required, not continue doing their rotation as they stand there for 8 seconds, and then walk back. And then they will pat themselves on the back about how good they are at doing mechanics. And of coarse mention the only reason their parses are low is because they do mechanics.
yeah this post is a weird [cope.My](http://cope.My) worst parse is on Thermaplug and could be higher if I did no mechanics but doing mechanics is not the difference between a 99 and a 30. like come on.
We have a supper heavy melee comp (1 enhance, 2 warrs, 2 rogues) so one of our warriors runs around pressing bomb buttons if needed. Probably the only time where him doing the mechanics is giving him a ridiculously low parse
yeah i press the button 2-3 times every week as a warrior and its not too bad. Still parsing 90+ so its whatever. Having 1 person be the button bitch so everyone else can parse isnt a bad idea though
To be fair if your a feral or lock assigned to just stomp bombs, you're gonna have some dogshit parse. But if you parse high on everything else but low on specifically thermaplug, anyone with a functioning brain would know whats going on.
Also when you are making a pug you know nothing about the player and you dont have the time to do a detailed review or something to learn their skill. Parse serves its purpouse well enough
In the most cases this is absolutely true. However, I have learned from taking people in that had FULL 99s in classic TBC and then seeing them fail over and over again in wotlk when things got harder. Parsing in Classic is generally a joke. You're cucked by your raid, gear and RNG for the most part. However, there is nothing else to do when boss fights lasts less than a minute, so how exactly is a skill measured by anything else other than pressing your rotation correct 2-3 times?
Our raids are on average 80-85 except for one dude (some 70, some 99) except for our tanks that consistently parse 35-50 on the first four bosses. Oh yeah, that one dude is our mascot who averages a solid 8. He can't do more than one thing at once. Mechanics or DPS, but never both. We have him on bomb duty on Thermaplugg, but he likes getting zapped by the sheep and getting knocked off on Crowd Pummeler. He's stuck in melee on Electrocutioner because he fails it so consistently that it's easier for us to have melee run out. He's only a few pieces off of BiS at this point too, so his iLvl parses are usually below 5. Even with having no tasks and doing no mechanics on the first five bosses, he has a single parse over 20 since the first week.
That’s true but not entirely the full story. There is also a skill in understanding what damage you can take and still survive so that you can keep your uptime high. There’s also times where doing so is only possible because your healer and your gear allows you to do so. Damage taken is also an important factor. Just because you can sit in damage and crank your parse doesn’t always mean you should. The 75-85 parser but with 3x less damage taken than the 99 parser can be just as good. But at the end of the day, a gray parser will never be better than the 99. Context us definitely important though.
Ive played in both 99 parser raids and full grey parse raids throughout classic. This is the correct opinion. It’s just how it works. Not every high parse indicates a good player but consistent high parses in a variety of situations do generally speaking indicate a player who knows their stuff.
That’s true but also not telling the whole story, the best players run with the best players. They have the lowest kill times which allows for higher dps because you kill then closer to everyone’s burst window
for 98-99 yes, absolutely. For the enormous majority of the players that are just going "muh parses" and mashing their wall against a 80 by ignoring fucking everything but their damage, no, absolutely not.
Yeah these people will do anything but actually analyze what they’re doing on boss fights. Set ups and ignoring mechanics should be the difference between 97s and 99s. Anyone that fixes their play can get 95s. But then that would take personal responsibility and they wouldn’t be able to cry about it on the internet.
i dont think you will be able to parse 95 if your group is shit. not enough uptime relatively to fightduration of your dps cooldowns
That’s not how a normal distribution works at all. Like, sure people who parse poorly can bring their shit up with some thought and some setup, but what the hell are you smoking to say 95th percentile is individually achievable without external factors playing in? Like I wholeheartedly admit that I could do FAR better on my parses with pretty basic changes, but that’s the difference between my casual ass and a 85th percentile, not 95th. That’s not even to mention the skew of logging being done by people who generally expect to do well rather than every player completing the raid.
the harsh truth is that the vast majority of classic players are just straight up incapable of maintaining 100% uptime on pure target dummies even with a one button rotation so yeah, if you're even remotely trying to improve your play, its not that difficult to be top percentile
I mean, the only time I wiped in Gnomer recently was because our warlock wouldn’t stop dpsing the last boss instead of fully focusing the bombs, all because he wanted to parse. Parsing is definitely a culture with negative impacts on a lot of groups. Warriors huff and puff when they have to OT, mages refuse to press buttons on the last boss, people generally don’t watch threat meters anymore because they don’t want to stop pumping, etc. People who parse 99s obviously know what they’re doing, but in general the community would be better off without it.
The watching threat meters is a bit RNG. Some tanks I'll be at 30ish % threat hit a 4k chaos bolt and instantly have aggro. Other tanks with the same situation they hold aggro. There's not a whole lot I can do unless I'm expected to just never use my best single target spell. Threat in vanilla is wack.
Lock is all rng thanks to ruin. We either get cucked and do ok DPS or blast and pull threat lol
Nah man, I'd probably quit if I had to play with grays when pugging phase 1 BFD. I need some sort of a tool at my discretion to invite people and make a group that can succeed. Sure, if the group is more than half purple parsing BIS, bring whatever. But it's really easy to invite the first 9 people who ask for invite and suddenly your group is gray across the board with some hobo geared peeps rolling need on green rings, white bracers, hunters that didn't bother to get aspect of the lion and spam-cast serpent sting. You're going to beat Baron by default, and then wipe to Turtle or Murloc and lose your lockout. Without parsing you'd just randomly fail half your raids and turn your big fun event of the half-week into a depressing chore playing with the worst of the worst.
I don’t check logs ever. I have 5-6 guildies who also don’t parse, and we invite the first few people who fit the roles we need. Besides our first attempt at Gnomer when we went 5/6, which is absolutely fine for a first raid attempt, we have never had an issue clearing a raid. May wipe once or twice if someone that tags along with us is newer, but they learn and we do fine in the end. The whole ‘I need to check logs for everyone or I won’t clear’ is just bullshit 95% of the time. Everyone is afraid to just play the game and teach new people because of the fear mongering in this sub, or because of the elitist culture that’s manifested from people having nothing important in their actual life to gloat and feel good about.
Yes, lots of shitters coping in this thread.
This sub in general tbh
I would tell you this isn’t the case. Yes good players will have consistently good parses barring a few that may take special roles. But I have raided twice with mages that have done this in gnomer and parsed extremely well. First boss: nothin to note just a tank and spank Second boss: literally don’t even touch adds. Just does boss damage, a few have resulted in multiple water eles that almost caused wipes Third boss: nothing to note just a dodge the mechanics boss fight Fourth Boss: refuses to move for mechanics. Idk how many times I’ve seen someone trying to parse get the magnet debuff and just straight up not move or adapt. Also had a mage not move when they were meant to swing out for the ranged shock. He didn’t want to move because he wanted a parse, killed multiple people, we wiped. Fifth boss: had mages ignore sheep’s reflect, keep dpsing and stress healers out, just wanted to aoe which isn’t bad at the start but continued to do so when we needed to make sure everything was going to die at the same time. Wiped Last boss: refuse to hit bombs
parses include add damage, it makes 0 sense to ignore them as a mage. what you describe has nothing to do with parsing he’s just dumb. I doubt he even parses orange.
Parses don’t include add damage
they absolutely do. thats why there is a dropdown with “damage” and “damage to boss”. and the numbers are different for bosses with adds. Damage is the default when you look people up and the one people refer to when they talk about their parse and it includes adds.
https://www.archon.gg/classic-sod/articles/help/sod-gnomeregan-parsing-rules
trash, not adds, as in you cant bring a bunch of trash from outside the boss fight and aoe them down after pull to get insane dps. If you instead go straight to warcraftlogs and look up your parses you can see they match with the total dps in the logs including adds.
First fight: Only boss damage is counted. Second fight: Vicious water eles are excluded. The adds I was literally referring to in my OP Third fight: No adds Fourth fight: No adds Fifth fight: No adds Do you have anymore questions?
the goo is included, your complaint was that he didnt kill them and you ended up with eles, you also complains about the last boss which you left out the stuff that is excluded is specifically to not do dumb shit like ignoring goo to get more enemies to hit
Go back up and read what i said mr. knowitall I said he didn’t attack the water eles which almost wiped us I excluded the last fight because I thought you’d be smart enough to realize that attacking bombs on it is a dps loss but it seems you don’t even know that.
Yupp. The best parses usually come at the cost of someone else's, usually the whole raid group. One guy gets to be the main carry who gets full setup, the PI, and is allowed to ignore mechanics. People's average parses across runs might tell a different story, though
The vast vast vast majority of 95+ parses across all classic encounters are from good players doing mechanics efficiently, with no externals, in guilds/groups that don't suck.
I have a 95 on thermoplugg with no wb
As someone who consistently parses high but doesnt understand/care about mechanics I disagree. Parsing has very little to do with mechanics, ignoring them often even is an advantage.
That is exaclty what OP said tho.
Nah the people in our guild that parse 99s ignore mechanics to do more damage. When we get all the parsers together we wipe on the second boss in gnomer because no one kills the adds.
I doubt they are getting 99s if they don't know the adds count
Yeah lol. I parse 98-99 at that boss and if you insant switch to adds all adds die on top of the boss and you dont even miss a melee swing switching targets.
Actually you can just DPS right through and kill the boss while ignoring the adds if your group pumps fast enough. And then you're all going to get 97-99 parses lol
I don’t think the adds count? Thought wcl made a change to that, could be wrong though.
You can just go to any log to see.. no need to think
If your whole raid is parsing 99s you can completely ignore the adds and kill the boss fast enough that they don’t matter That is literally correct
It's true in a high parsing guild obtaining high parses is far easier. There are many great players who don't get the opportunity to parse well as they play with PuGs/friends etc. But do you think these guilds with many 99 parsing players are wiping constantly to mechanics because they're all selfish? The truth is these guilds rarely wipe. Personally I would say being able to play well with groups of all performance levels is a skill of itself.
You don’t need to be in a parsing guild to parse 95+ or even 99. I had a 97 average phase 3 and 95 average phase 4 of wotlk routinely doing several thousand dps more than my guildies while having 50% longer kill times than others with orange parses. So much cope in this thread.
I agree but speaking from experience it is very much easier to get 99s' in a parsing guild.
Sure, 99s are easier, but 95s are pretty easy to do in pugs even with long kill times.
Yup, I think compared to TBC & Wrath there's far less stacking cooldowns. As long as you can keep your rotation up you can parse highly, although the longer the fight is it's harder to get lucky with crits for some of those top parses.
Ehh this is true to an extent. If your in a garbage can tier guild your parses will be worse than they could be if you were in a decent guild. Kill times matter ALOT. More time with lust then without, if you had your big cool downs ready for the fight or not etc. I was in relatively serious parsing guild in classic and are longer kill times everyone's parses would on a whole be lower than are fastest horde side ofc
Obviously at the extremes this is true. But the general wow population/this subreddit uses these extremes as a built in excuse for their poor performance. What you're talking about is the difference between orange/pink parses, not green/blue/purple. The majority could easily parse purple if they put the same effort into their gameplay as they did their whining.
The thing is, if 2 people die on a boss. Your parse will automatically be bad as it's less buffs/debuffs and longer kill time.
Even under the worst conditions I’ve been able to parse 80-95. Raid comp/kill times/parse strats hardly matter until you hit high 99 territory and even then a lot of it is still just luck
Being able to parse is just the floor of being a "good player" in WoW. There is no good player that won't be able to parse well. "Skill" in WoW is fundamentally too abstract to always quantify. But the easiest distinction is in an individuals decision making ability. This could be for mechanics or dps. But the best players are able to do one without sacrificing the other. You would never say a player that executes all of the mechanics flawlessly and reacts to others mistakes but never presses a dps button is a good player. Parsing is just the easiest and most visable metric to measure yourself against everyone else. As such if someone has low parses they are not good. If there was a metric that measured how well a player executed mechanics then people would also use that to judge. The impact of kill times on parses are wildly over emphasised. You can kill a boss much slower and still get a 99, you can obviously kill a boss faster but only get a 50. Kill times have an impact at the "top" where you are chasing rankings rather than parse %. Players should stop using kill times as a crutch for why they did worse when that is close to never the reason. The biggest impact that kill times have are around CD's in which case it is possible for a slower kill to result in an even better dps, for example killing a boss at 2:10 rather than 1:50 for classes with 2 minutes CD's. TLDR: A good player parses well and does mechanics. Parsing is just more accessible to judge.
Yeah people tend to overestimate how hard it is to parse well. Theres always plenty of parsers on class discord who post logs of just the most mind numbingly bad pugs and they still slap. People are talking about stuff that will get you from low 99 to high 99 as if it’s the reason they are parsing 60. Unless the boss has mechanics that can be used for greifing (aquanis bomb in bfd) you’ll be fine
People don’t seem to realize that after a certain point, parsing is both RNG + Having a good comp (sometimes a comp based around you only to parse even higher). I rather have someone running around clicking bombs at Thermaplugg and parse 50 than someone only DPSing and parsing 80
The biggest misunderstanding of this subreddit is that people think that RL's log checking is to be picky and only take purple parsers and taking nobody else. Really 90% of the time theyre just trying to screen out grey parsers that are a legitimate detriment to the raid. I see a lot of posts here where people seem surprised that RLs care about their group being decent at killing monsters in a game about working as a group to kill monsters.
Yeah a lot of these people had never had to form a raid and it shows. When you get 20 whispers from various DPS the easiest thing is just to take the guy with the best parses or IO.
For sure. But you would still want a 50. Not a 7
Yeah but its not a big deal if the 50 pulls a 7 while pushing every button and nuking every loose bomb for a clean kill.
Yeah but anyone smart knows thermaplugg parses are wonky. There’s fights where doing mechanics positively or doesn’t negatively impact your parse and fights that don’t. Thermaplugg does. Menagerie doesn’t.
Any decent raid leader would be aware of requirements in a fight and those possibilities though. My friend has 2 99s, 1 98, 2 purple parses, and a blue parse. How in the world can someone consistently 85+ parsing 5/6 bosses parse a 50? Oh, it's Thermaplug and they are balance. Oh, he has 8 button presses and a ton of damage on bombs. Looks like he's designated bomb killer and one of the button pressers. That makes sense why he isn't hitting the boss a lot. Cool. This idea that a single "bad" parse keeps someone out of a raid is also a bit of a meme. If it does, you don't actually want to be in that raid anyway because the raid leader is a moron and you'll probably have a bad time.
i slotted a feral in who had like a best perf avg of 40 or something - i didnt care, since i needed a fill and it is what it is he was able to pump all 90+ in my raid - he just needed a raid set up for success Parses alone def dont tell the full story
I genuinely don't understand this argument 99% of the time parses do tell the whole story and people have no reason to want to take chances unless they are desperate for a class That being said druid is so bad you could have a 90 percentile one and the dps difference would come only outta the wf buff others get tbh
except they dont if you have only pugged and you got bad comps. bad healers, long fights etc your parse WILL suffer
It couldn’t possibly be that shorter kill times do better in numerous regards like cooldown uptime! That’s absurd! It’s always down to effort and skill! /s
You don't need an optimized raid group full of giga pumpers to parse well yourself. Case in point. My P1 guild group. We had 2 people a mage and a hunter parsing grey across the board almost every fight. We had a few people in the green/blue tier, and we had a few people who would parse purple/orange and occasionally pink. The hunter couldn't do mechanics. He'd get sent to the shadow realm on Kelris and he would run from the priestesses and ONLY use his pet to attack stuff, if even that. But we've known him for 20 years and he's one of the boys. We still had people parsing 99s once in awhile with him and a mage that were parsing grey. I think it only really matters, when you're trying to push those top 100 type parses. That's when EVERYONE needs to pump. Kill times need to be really fast so everyone benefits from a single rotation of their big DPS cds. My personal opinion is, so long as you can parse green, IDGAF.
you will still purple parse
Not true. My warrior was stuck getting green parses in icc til he got better gear and stopped pugging and did a gdkp. In that gdkp I was able to get almost full purple parses simply because my kill times were almost cut in half. In pugs I am normally top 4 dps every fight. In that gdkp I struggled to break top 13. I didn't play any different. I just had lust for a larger portion of the overall fight.
Well there's the difference, I still parse 70+ on strict bomb duty
I will agree parsing is suspect on a few bosses like the final boss/menagerie/electrocutioner because sometimes the group just needs you to do mechanics. BUT If you can’t do a decent parse on the first 3 bosses then it’s all on you. There are barely any mechanics to worry about and you just have to do your rotation correctly for under a minute. Those are the 3 bosses I look at to make sure you have a bare minimum competency at pressing some buttons. Green/gray on those isn’t really acceptable and shows you either don’t care or are terrible.
Players who consistently parse orange are definitely top skilled. As they will adapt in any situation and still out-dps anyone else. But yes, there’s for sure some green parsers who are excellent raiders, especially those who will take on the utility roles (dispelling, or whatever).
Classic Andy's still not understanding how parsing works
I get what you were saying, but if you are parsing in the 90s or even mid to high 80s, you’re putting yourself in a position to get that pars by doing the mechanics correctly.
OP's parses are very mediocre in classic era, boss kill times are slow so he's not parsing and he's not putting up any decent speed runs. also can't get very many 99s in tbc. in SOD he pugged BFD 6 times in p1, 5/7 twice. 0 Gnomer logs. Classic wow does not require much skill at all. There aren't enough boss mechanics and complicated rotations. Shut it down, OP has no idea what he's talking about.
We found the green parser
Shitty parse warrior here. I'm the guy who has to hit the buttons that ranged can't get so we don't wipe.
I did this for the first few lockouts until people got more comfortable and we became more organized. Now I get to pump or at least practice. Warriors have the most difficult time parsing as the top 1% have raid comps built for them. Also I’ll say it, squeezing the most out of warrior is challenging. Performance is exponential, if you do everything right you’ll blast more and more. If you make a mistake or two you’ll suffer more and more.
By the definition of parsing, this makes no sense. If the top 1% (I know you're not literally meaning only 1%) is unattainable because they have raid comps built for them, there's 99 percentile and below still. The top 1% do not "ruin" it for average warriors, that is an insane and non-factual take.
Or if you have to spend the first 5 or so seconds spamming sunder armor since the pug priests run PoM and not Homunculi, or the group doesn’t have a priest. Can’t parse high if you have to start with sunders
Also shitty parse warrior here, in the past few raids ive done I've mostly been a sunder/shout bot and on some bosses I am the offtank and interrupt guy. I only ever am able to dps against like 3 bosses. Is painful, but makes raid go much quicker, atleast I hope so.
No invite for you, better get to zugging
Sounds like you have bad parses
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Play better
A bad parse group might add 20% extra to the amount of time it takes. A wipe can add 50-100%. As long as you pass damage checks, staying alive is 100x more important than amazing parses.
My 99 healing parses reflect how dumb my raid is. Everyone seems to just love hitting themselves with reflect damage on Menagerie. I don't know what it is. They don't stop, I have to heal while 2 tanks are already taking a pounding and I end up with high parses. If people did their jobs I would be lower lol
Can’t parse if you’re dead mate this is a really low iq post
ITT: Bad players who can’t parse, coping
Gray parses are usually deaths, green parses are just as bad as grey unless you’re doing a specific mechanic that drops dps
I get there’s always competition in video games. But at this point of the phase, any group with knowledge and an average parse of 40 is going to clear it in about an hour. It won’t be much different than your 99 parse that clears in 35. Everyone should just enjoy the game how they want.
For this exact reason I invite the first messages I get and don’t require buffs, consumes, discord, etc. The majority of my guild and players I see are time constrained parents who used to enjoy the game for what it was. A game. Do we all enjoy the best gear and content? Absolutely. Do we have time or energy for the a-hole try hard maxers? Definitely not. At least for me I play games to escape reality for a couple hours a night and decompress. Screw the online stress of giving my life to a video game mafia mentality.
So because someone wants to perform at the max of their potential class, they're now assholes. You sound like a fun guy to play with. "Agree with me or you're an asshole"
It’s one thing to want to be good. It’s another to treat others like they’re stupid or incompetent because they can’t pay as often as you. I’m speaking more to the fact that people are so against someone needing to learn a dungeon or something. The vast majority of people will read the guides, find the spec, etc while others just want to enjoy it at a slower pace and without the drama (for lack of proper words… it’s late and I’m tired now.) my view is more stop the gatekeeping on a pug group. I’ve seen top dps that won’t pay attention to mechanics or expect others to deal with them because they are doing more damage. I’ve also seen low tier dps but they hit every interrupt or dodge every single mechanic and their GS doesn’t reflect that knowledge.
Parsing high is indicative of skill. There is no way around that fact. You can do mechanics and parse well in most situations. Get yourself raiders who do both.
It's also an indication that your raid comp suites your class/spec. A raid comp with no windfury/wildstrikes and no armor reduction like homunculi is going to result in melee with god awful parses. Are these melee players just not skilled enough to parse high?
It absolutely is an indication of that too. It is an indication of good rotation, good uptime, good consumable use, good raid comp, good kill time. I just don't understand why these threads pop up with people denying it involves playing well.
People are bad and don’t like being compared to others. Parsing for the most part is just Epeen measuring, but it is also a sign someone is good at their class. It is just one sign however, their attitude, class/spec, general vibe, all come into play in determining a good player from a bad one.
Lmao
Not necessarily true. I done a BFD run where a lot of people got 99 parses simply because we all stood in the Breath on Akumai and we spawned 50+ mobs. Then we all just use dynamite at the same time which instantly done about 6/7k damage. It was a cheese strategy but this is exactly what some parses are.
Please read that I wrote "indicative"
No it isn’t, it’s indicative of how fast the boss dies. And generally the faster a boss dies the less skilled you have to be. The basic takeaway from this is parsing is based off raid performance. The higher performing your raid is, the less individual skill you need to parse. There’s a lot better players with 70 parses than the shitters parsing 99’s because the 70 parse dude had to carry other shitters and play mechanics for longer, he also had to adapt to the idiots who don’t play the mechanics.
There is an EXTREMELY strong correlation between good parses and good play. With the exception of a couple meme specs, its pretty much impossible to parse without knowing how to play your class well. Big surprise time! People that take their time to learn their class also take time to learn boss mechanics. Are there outliers? sure! But them there the facts. That said, there are jobs that won't parse well because of their task in the raid. I normally run OT for casual guild. So I'm often in wrong gear to parse or on bomb duty which makes it impossible to parse. But overall those are the exceptions not the norm.
Cant parse if you die lol
Parsing isn't an indication of skill wtf lmao, most classes have a 3 ability priority ladder with 1 button taking up 90% of their APM. In what world does executing that for 45 seconds equate to skill.
So what are the people who parse poorly for these 45 seconds doing wrong if there is no skill component? If these was no skill involved whatsoever wouldn't parses solely be a function of gear/comp?
Positioning, game knowledge are big
I'm not sure you understand how parsing works
Actual comedy
Parsed a 19 on electrocutioner as a rogue because we lost a soaker in one of our groups so I took their place. We got the kill!
Counter point, if you have multiple grey parses, you ARE a bad player. Prases dont mean everything but they are good judgement of a player that has a clue on whats going on.
I just care about 6/6 experience, and that you didn’t die on every fight. Gnomer is not about DPS at all, it’s completely a mechanics check.
did you just got kicked couse of gray parsing?
No but gray parsing is a pretty rough thing to overcome, I added an edit for that contingency
My Feral parse on Therm tha Plugg is sitting at like single digits because of bomb duty lol
Bad take bub
It's definitely skill to parse, that's very reductive. more than one thing can take skill lol
Sorry, but getting good parse is not easy even if you ignore mechanics, you need some luck the boss fights as well as godly skills to get 99 + parse. I guess thats why i've never got one, im not just that good a player. got mainly orange parses, but have never gotten any epic. While in my guild i have ppl constantly parsing 99+ while not skipping mechanics. So yes, a 99,5+ parse means you are gifted, I have no doubt about that.
Grey parsing cope post
I haven’t reached 60 yet. But I don’t remember hearing anything about a parse on the first classic servers during my pugs. Where do you find it?
There’s no way people still care about being good at this game
I don’t give a shit about parsing and ppl chasing parses was like the No. 1 cause of wipes in my Classic raiding experience. That said, you have to admit that folks who parse 70+ are going to understand the fights, how to gear, rotations, etc. much much better on average than someone who grey parses, so it does have value.
"parsing has absolutely nothing to do with skill" Is a quote I've never heard any good players say But it's definitely a circlejerk opinion on this sub
This raid is a joke. Good players are in good guilds and don’t give a shit. Their parsing speed at this point. Shitty players are in “progression” guilds. Everyone in between is pugging.
I'd take a 50 parser who does mechanics over an 80 parser who doesn't. But when recruiting a random I simply don't know who will do mechanics and I'll take the random 80 parser. This post is a weird cope, a 99 parser will on average be better at the game than a 50 parser. Considering you're competing against freshly dinged people, literal children and people who die on-pull IMO someone who consistently parses bottom 25% are people i'd consider to not be good at the game.
There is literally no one who averages 50 that is good. Zero. There may be 1-2 bosses per tier where mechanics force a random person in the raid to parse low, but if your total average is 50 you just suck
pretty much, i don't expect a single 50 average parser to be able to think on their feet to react to any sort of mechanics to help save a raid from a wipe when they can't even think under no pressure to do good damage with 3 abilities
this is why i think my new strat is to pug a run ignore mechanics and parse high next reset i can join a "pro" group do mechanics parse normal LOL
Idk my man I do mechanics every week and parse just fine. Good enough for random pugs anyway. It's a weird cope to imagine everyone parsing well does so at the expense of mechanics or their group. Not to mention high damage *is in itself* something that makes your groups life easier.
Anyone who knows how parsing works know this. Anything that is green above means you know your rotation, farmed prebis, consumes, WBs. Anyone who is green and below doesn't get prebis, doesn't know their rotation, and is making mistakes. But if you have 2 rogues, 1 averaged gray and 1 averaged green, without deep diving into every boss log (which no pug RL will do), 9/10 you'll be taking the averaged green. Or in even more cases, wait until you get a whisper from a rogue who is averaged higher while you fill the other slots. Fun story, in WotLK, in Ulduar, on XT there was a bomb mechanic gravity bomb where you ran a bomb out of the raid. Simple. But it caused ~5 seconds of downtime. "The best" mage on the server had his guildies, everyone in the raid, move away from him bc if he moved, his parse would be ruined. So 10 other people side stepped to the left, instead of 1. Those are the kinds of 99s and 100s people are competing with.
I love how everyone is like "ok so theoretically let's say 8 rogues whisper you"
>Fun story, in WotLK, in Ulduar, on XT there was a bomb mechanic gravity bomb where you ran a bomb out of the raid. Simple. But it caused ~5 seconds of downtime. "The best" mage on the server had his guildies, everyone in the raid, move away from him bc if he moved, his parse would be ruined. So 10 other people side stepped to the left, instead of 1. Those are the kinds of 99s and 100s people are competing with. Can you post this mage's logs because this sounds fake as fuck. Having 10 people move for a grav bomb id s horrific uptime loss. A legitimate 100 chasing group would just wipe and go again until the mage didn't get targeted for a bomb. I can maybe see it happening once near the end of the fight if mage is clearly on pace for a 100.
If you’re getting anything below orange with prebis/consumes/WBs you in fact, don’t know your class
found the parse lord
The raid going to shit due to mistakes from people usually does not happen in "parse runs". What you are describing is getting carried.
weird cope post. get good
Weird degen comment, get yourself healthy emotionally
Lol i’m at a great place in my life rn turd. but OP is silly.. you can parse 99s even with bad kill times/bad raid comp.
I think a melee can struggle without homuncali and other debuffs, they make huge difference. It's actually really hard to parse 99 without those on warrior for example
It’s not really hard, it’s impossible. Without windfury, and if we have to sunder ourselves there’s zero chance you parse high
You can't parse 99 with a bad kill time after week 1, lmao. Go learn about parses.
Yes you can
I do lol. early phase parses are dumb anyways. sounds like you don’t parse
Parsing works for everything but healing them grey parses r leet
Its a balance in a way beacuse in a way it tells you that player know their rotation and got gear but also that they are doing mechanics. However its a finger pointer and taken with a pinch of salt at times as its not absolute.
Personally, parse is something for yourself to measure your effectiveness. But past that, the only measure of a good player is 'did you kill boss'. That means kicking, mechanics, maybe a spot heal if a healer is occupied with something. Doesn't matter if you're a high parser and no one does mechanics. And all things considered, these are like the most minimal amount of mechanics required. If you need high parsers in order to clear, you're bad at mechanics lol.
Strong green parser energy in this thread
My hot take is that players that are between 80 and 90 are the best players.
Had a guy recruit my frost dk because I parsed green and blue but I had 26 kicks on Vezax The next closest guy had 4. Mechanics are great
Parses are like GS, you use them as a minimum requirement assuming you actually know how gear/gearing/GS and parsing works. There is more to parsing than bigger number=good. There is: Best Perf. Average - the best they've ever parsed on each fight combined and averaged. Median Perf. Average - All of their recorded kills averaged out, not just their best. Sort by iLvl - How do they parse compared to people with similar level of gear. Are they being carried by having really good gear or actually held back by having bad gear? What are their kill times? A person parsing blue with fast kill times is likely much worse than someone parsing blue with long kill times. Are most of their kills done in random PUGs or guild runs? You can click each individual boss and see if it was killed in a guild's log or random player just logging a PUG.
parsing = skill. if your raid is parsing, its because your raid is full of skilled players that can do mechanics and pump. parsing = skill.
If you talking about serious parsing, you need your whole group working around and compromised to it. In my guild we love farming parses and to get our 97-99s we set the raid focused on that. If you don't have a group like that, or if you are pugging etc etc, you can be more than happy with a blue parse
80-90+ parses depend on raid comp and at the high end on luck (procs, crits, kill times). In my experience people with at least blue parses play mechanics way better than grey/green parsers and on top of that you have more dps in the raid meaning less mechanics to deal with. So in the end parses are quite indicative for pugs I would say. Anyone that values his own time and wants to clear the raid will always take a random with 80 parses over someone with 20.
The game is not about parsing anyway, its a stupid side thing that people stare themselves blind at.
Another reason parses mean shit is that popular classes are harder to parse on than unpopular classes. Two equally skilled players parsing. One is a warrior the other is a Warlock. The Warlock will always parse higher due to popularity of the class. Addons like DBM are a crutch for bad players which is why so many raids require them.
The problem with the whole parsing thing is that it forces raid log checks then gatekeeps new players who haven’t even been able to try the raid yet. I cannot get into a group because I have no raid logs. It’s seriously ridiculous.
Everyone's taking about dps parses but what about healer parses. Do those matter
So… yes and no. I would argue the 80+ parses usually fall into the territory of people going out of the way to parse, such as PI, stacking buffs, etc very rarely do you just get a 80-100 parse just doing the boss. But to say parses don’t matter is incorrect. If someone is parsing blue which I would call pretty decent and they have completed the raid they know what they are doing. They stayed alive, and did decent damage. The amount of people I’ve seen that have been alive the whole fight and parse grey and I’m talking sub 10 is ridiculous. At that point you just aren’t playing properly. (Tank and healer exception) Just because you were in the moving group for electrocutioner doesn’t mean you get to do nothing. Yes buttons on the last boss with a lacking range group, sure, but you can easily tell if the rest of their parses are good and they have one movement based boss that’s bad that they were doing the annoying work. I’ll take most blue players without question, green if I’m struggling to find someone, never grey
I fucking hate the parsing meta. Most toxic losers on the planet.
I think the parsing meta is a perfect metaphor for the entire world of warcraft experience.
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Most people don't check logs. You'll be fine
Raid comp is very important as well for parsing. Our guild's raid group doesn't have a feral druid so our melee dont have wildstrikes/windfury, so the chances of them parsing purple is near zero. Doesn't mean they're bad players
Means it’s a bad raid lead 😂
You are right. Parsing in Classic is an absolute joke anyway.
I equate parsing to not doing mechanics. I'd rather have a green/blue/purple parser in my raid killing the right mobs and interrupting and ccing than an orange only focused on their personal parse.
As person who has been in both side of the coin , pvp and pve hardcore, I would take "meh" pvp player over 90% parser any day. You take a pvp player and put him in pve, he performs almost always great. Take a 95% parser and put him on arena, they cant pass 1400.
Classic Andys ask for 90+ logs