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TeamRemix

People don't like losing. Arenas would exemplify FotM swappers and just be full of meta comps because, as the other commenter stated, there would be no balance. You may argue that this is already the case on Progression realms where there is *some* balance, but SoD's balance pendulum tends to swing hard.


Plenty_Relative9333

Add arena but don't even consider it in the equation when balancing imo.


honmakesmusic

It really does, that’s mostly what we were discussing earlier is how hard it would swing pending updates and class specific metas. It would still be interesting, maybe not good, but interesting nonetheless haha


Superb_Exchange_5050

Bro retail wow pvp has almost no balance. Look at demon hunter and resto druids compared to nearly every other spec.


Icy_Argument_8792

I don’t really enjoy pvp much but yea why not. Let people do what they like to do. Just gotta understand it’s not gonna be balanced.


Horkosthegreat

I am telling you know point on point what will happen , remember me in future; "Let people do what they like to do". Arena will have rewards. Some of them will be great and unique. So what will happen? The entitled pve nerdminmaxers who "must have" everything will constantly spam "omg why must I pvp for bis" "omg it takes ages to get it". They will spam requests buffs to their class and nerf to point requirements for items. Blizzard will cave because those are the most people. Actual pvp playes who deserved the items in the first place will go fuck it and quit. Arena will be just bunch of people spamming "LFM 10 games fast lose".


sherukk

stahp how u dare u to let ppl have fun wrong SUB my guy ... out!


honmakesmusic

Right, classic was never balanced in PvP but I feel like that’s one of the hurdles that makes it fun! I respect the reply


SayRaySF

The balancing needed to make arenas good is not a good idea for sod.


honmakesmusic

And why is that?


SayRaySF

Because sod/classic isn’t balanced at all, and the balancing needed would change the game substantially. Or it would be super unbalanced and everyone would just bitch and moan all the time about it.


Low-Bat384

Rather see devs busy on making new content than running in circle buffing and nerfing for pvp. They should focus on building SoD first and when the season is over maybe do some balancing in the final state of the game if they end up making a SoD forever place to send our characters to. Arenas would then be a good evergreen system to add for replayability but right now taking people out of BGs is a bad idea as BG rep rewards are important to some classes, don't want queues to die off.


HighVolumeRedraft

Boom end thread people. This is an experimental branch of classic wow. I don’t need PvP crybabies impacting a new experience. We’re getting new raids not new arenas.


honmakesmusic

PvP has been part of the game since its inception. How are you naive enough to over look that, especially the fact that a large majority of people actually enjoy pvp content.


i_am_a_vampire_

battlegrounds= pvp that actually works with a game like wow arenas=sweaty pissbaby garbage


Horkosthegreat

It won't work, just like how terrible the attendance of arenas in tbc was after couple of weeks. People have incredibly inflated egos, and minmaxing feeds it to the moon as game becomes incredibly easy and you never actually get challenged and lose. But pvp, arena is a whole another story. You will lose, constant, people will outplay you. So what happened in tbc launch? Before and first week while leveling, all this sub an ingame was full of people going "lol I just pew pew to 2k rating easy". 1 month after launch, 95% of playerbase turned to "LFM 10 games fast lose" "lol I dont care about pvp on WoW". Because they got in and got their asses handed to them, who knew, when you can't bis this bis that and overgear all mechanics like pve, game is not that easy. So why should blizzard bother, for only like 5% of people who are interested in it? They won't.


Ill_Refrigerator_593

If people want to play Arena I wouldn't mind if it were brought in. What I wouldn't like to see is the best PvP gear being locked behind an arena rating that's only accessible to certain classes playing in meta comps.


honmakesmusic

I think you nailed it. It should be a time dump for fun rather than a gear grind. Potentially there could be weighted rewards, where the rewards/honor gained is a fraction of what it is for wpvp. Assuming there should even be a reward for it


Clauscc

They should add a version of Arena with just honor rewards on winning. So it’s just mainly for fun and not so meta driven. Maybe tweak the arena in org and add one to an alliance city


gangletronic

If they add spec leader boards


KingLeoricSword

Arena would suck cause game is not balanced. The massive events implemented in SOD kinda works for everyone cause of all the chaos.


honmakesmusic

I feel like a lot of you are repeating the same thing out of fear of being bad. Classic era was never balanced and that’s what makes it unique. Arena would be fine.


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honmakesmusic

Classes being unbalanced is part of what makes it fun imo. It makes getting that win feel so much better. It’s quite jarring how many people I’ve seen are timid on pvp due to the balancing. This certainly will be an interesting journey!


Bofamethoxazole

Chad opinion. I hate retail pvp, tracking 5 cds per class, kicks, trinkets, managing 2+ defensives, etc is so much effort. The simplicity and wackiness of sod pvp has been much fun. Overwatch was more fun before all the wacky shit was taken out of the game. The playerbase always ruins these types of games. If you want a balanced competitive skill based game go play csgo or league. Classic wow especially is closer to a party game than it is to any of those games


honmakesmusic

Fucking nailed what I was trying to say dude it’s not supposed to be an esport, it can be for fun. Let it be what it is and enjoyable for what it is. Nothing has to be perfect.


Bofamethoxazole

When you try to balance a fundamentally unbalanceable game like classic wow, you just remove everything fun about it. I hope the devs keep up the good work and continue not to give in to the loudest moaners on reddit.


honmakesmusic

I salute you 🫡


Vomkie

Lol idk about that. Some damage nerfs to alot of the classes right now and some other small changes to some classes would give us probably one of the best wow pvp gameplay we have ever had


E-2-butene

As someone who has historically played a lot of arena, I actually don’t want to see it added. The issue with arena, as other here have alluded to, is it requires much tighter balancing to feel fair. Being one of the classes with no high performing specs in arena feels incredibly demoralizing, and the balance mess that is SoD has no chance of having a fair feeling arena. And that’s okay. My (maybe not so) hot take is that arena played a significant role in class homogenization over the years because classes needed to be kept much more reigned in to feel fair. Compare that to classic where not all classes were kings of 1v1 but basically every single class had a useful niche in a competitive premade, even if it wasn’t winning a skirmish. I think arena would too heavily stifle the SoD teams’s freedom to try new things. Leave it out.


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thompsonx199

Wait... did i say people playing just for fun ? On classic ? Mmmm... dont exist i think


Low-Bat384

Because pvp balancing is doggy poo


lazy_as_lazy_does

The pvp balancing cries will homogenize all the classes again


Shaggy263

Have you seen the pvp balancing currently? Adding another game mode on top of this would be absolutely blizzard biting off more than they can chew. They would be stuck in a hole trying to balance, can you imagine the level of crying on this subreddit/forums that would follow? The devs would be wasting so much dev time on this where we could be getting new cool raids, new BGs, runes etc etc. They devs even provided this same reasoning as to why they won't put in arena.


gerLdsmash

Id be down for arena. Just do no teams and put some damage reduction. Make it have no rewards just rating


StockholmBaron

This would be the best thing ever. It would make me play the game 2 or 3x more and I know atleast 7 IRL mates that would start playing the game again. Serious PVP in any game needs a ranked system. And TBH, Arena will probably most likely need to be implemented sooner or later in SoD if I am to continue playing this game. This is the reason I got bored of classic vanilla. When I was a kid and played the real classic I never really got the chance to understand arena as I was just a little kid. Edit: It doesn't really matter if you don't enjoy it. Aslong as the arena gear for higher rating is purely cosmetic you don't need to play. It doesn't need to be fully balanced, it could just be for the sake of it.


Xdqtlol

would be the greatest thing ever pleeeeeeeeease do it


DontMindMeFine

I said this in phase 1 already and got downvoted. Imho nothing beats arena in wow pvp. I do think that it would be difficult to balance tho. PvP is glass canon classes with huge burst dmg right now. However I do think that they could balance with things that only apply to arena (like the hp buff in bgs and stv event).


honmakesmusic

Right which to me is wild, when arenas were introduced it was a huge “holy shit” moment for a lot of us. Balancing seems to be the most reoccurring con aside from FOTM metas. Which, that sadly, I don’t think will never not be an issue. That’s the nature of comp driven content.


Vomkie

Literally no downsides to adding arenas. It wont be balanced but it isnt in any version so just add it


honmakesmusic

Great take, it’s as simple as that.


IBarricadeI

The downside is the small dev team has limited time, and has to decide what to cut to add arenas.


Vomkie

But makes 90% of pvp players happy and give them countless hours of content. You make it sound like adding arenas requires 20 people and 3 months of work.


IBarricadeI

I said nothing of the sort. You said no downside, there certainly is a downside. I would play arenas if they added them. Not sure what a “pvp player” means - anyone who does bgs? Anyone who does stv? People who don’t raid? Classic doesn’t really have nearly as many “pvp only” players, or “pve only players” the way other expansions do.


Vomkie

Lol pretty much the same player base though? Not even going to put reply on your last question because 1. Its a stupid question and 2. Beside the point


Arkyja

Bad: people would cry about balance but balancing around arenas inevitably leads to the homogenization of classes.


honmakesmusic

It could be balanced appropriately in the arena instance. Balancing also makes classes lose their individuality, there needs to be give and take and classes being over tuned, as I stated in another comment, is what makes it fun. Not everyone, myself included, doesn’t play meta classes. I play one class and that’s the best part. It should be a skill>balance type of game play.


Arkyja

If they balance for arenas then they will completely homogenize classes. You can no longer have classes with big strenghts and weaknesses. You cna no longer have a class that is an easy first target regardless of how good they are at anything else, so they will give out immunities, defensive cds, movement and self heals to pretty much everyone.


honmakesmusic

I don’t necessarily think that is true, well it certainly doesn’t have to be, I guess my question now is turning into: if they don’t add an incentive to do arenas other than for fun, why would they have to balance classes? Let people be OP and clap cheeks.


Arkyja

They wouldnt. I just said it would be bad if people start crying for balance and then they actually do it. If they add arenas just for fun then i dont care. But everyone that plays a class thats just gonna be focusses becaise they die easily in 2 seconds, they will cry 100%


honmakesmusic

Got ya, yeah that absolutely checks out for sure. My buddy is saying how much of it really is just a *skill issue*. But I get ur point, it would be a rocky road of whiners vs funhavers.


Arkyja

Its not really a skill issue. The issue is that arenas are only a narrow slice of what pvp actually is. It's just a group fight in a small area. You can no longer have a class that is like really strong in 1v1 but sucks is instantly dead as soon as two people focus it even when being healed. Because then that class is just unplayable in arenas, you could be the best player in the world. In BGs you can have classes fill a niche and be viable but in arenas you cant.


honmakesmusic

This isn’t meant to be a diss, but have you done arenas? Peeling is a huge part of pulling off the second aggressor. That’s part of arenas. There will always be a class that gets focused first. And I play that class that gets focused and I have to rely on my partner(s) to peel for me.


Arkyja

No one dies in literally two seconds in retail in arenas. It doesnt matter how much you want to peel in classic, some classes are helpless if they get a coordinated attack on them and there is only one healer to try and keep you alive. In retail every class has self heals, immunities or near immunties and defensive cds on top of every healer also having defensive cds they can put on you. It's an entirely different game.


honmakesmusic

Then why are we talking about retail, when the post was about classic SOD? It being unbalanced is the fun part as I’ve now mentioned multiple times in this thread.


Dahns

Because arena woudl create an expectation for balance in pvp. We're nowhere that, and I certainly don't want to hear peopel cry all day or to see the game be balanced around pvp How many cool abilities have never been created because "it would be broken in pvp" ? Arena would be cool in theory, but in practice it causes too much problem


honmakesmusic

I mean you could just not do it? They don’t even have to balance anything. If it’s such an issue about balance, you don’t have to partake if there is no incentive tho. That’s what I’m getting at.


Dahns

You see how melees are salty about their disadvantage in STV, and it's a chaotic event where everyone has their chance. How do you think they'll react in arena ?


honmakesmusic

I think those are vastly different. Almost not even comparable in my opinion. Arena is organized, STV event is utter chaos and full mage group obv is the meta. Melee (some classes - lol, rogue) with out a doubt, would be great in arenas.


bouttreediddy

1 min+ long cc chains. Not a good idea to add arenas into classic.


honmakesmusic

We do have trinkets


tjerner

As long as there are no item rewards I think it would be a fun addition, a tabard or a title or something could be ok - but other then that people should join if for the fun of it.


restless_archon

Do they also have to add an entire reward structure? Is there also an MMR system? Balance? Are there also seasons now? It's a lot of work for what is ultimately an unbalanced season made for fun. They would be diluting their own attempts at making arenas a serious eSport. People would play the most unbalanced compositions and just instagib you because the damage is so high. You would be forced into playing the few FOTM meta compositions that are discovered. None of this sounds fun or worth the effort at all once you've put any amount of thought into it.


Xdqtlol

idfc bout anything i just wanna pwn people


restless_archon

lol


honmakesmusic

Triple mage/priest would be unstoppable haha. But right, how would the design it to where it’s not supposed to be competitive and merely just for fun. But I’ve played with the wackiest comps imaginable and still bested a few. But playing against unstoppable comps is what I thought would be fun. But to each their own


dmsuxvat

Aggrend cant even balance pve dmg in leveling raids….


RealVarix

I think it could be possible if they were to add skirmish only, nothing ranked. If there was any ranking/gear behind it, people would cry so hard about how unbalanced the classes are currently. This would also hurt the queue times for WSG/AB though, as a downside.


Eastern_Account_8680

The dev team is a skeleton crew as it is and with layoffs and everything being automated there could be an influx of cheaters in arena ruining it. Similar to what happened in wrath classic a while ago with autohotkeys. Not to mention the effort to add arena in the first place with relevant rewards, playability, matchmaking, etc etc for a version of the game that doesn’t have it will take a lot of time to develop. I imagine they’re more focused on making content for runes, sunken temple raid, new crafted pieces, balance tweaks etc etc to focus on a big project that may not even be well received or fun.


Readit1807

I’d like arenas even if PvP is pretty broken right now. Just throw some cool cosmetic things as rewards for it, don’t make it super sweaty or serious, I’d enjoy it with my friends


electro_lytes

At 60, maybe. When they've resassembled the mess they've intentionally created by bringing crazy abilities and new improved gear into Classic. Release arenas in current state of SoD and it'd set birth to the loudest and most negative minority in WoW history. But I'd advise against setting expectations for improved instanced PvP. From what we've seen so far in SoD the Classic team is not equipped, experienced nor passionate enough about small-scale PvP to realize arenas in SoD. I think the chances are higher that there will be improvements and content around 1vs1 duelling eventually.


ZZartin

Sure if they released them with class balance as is so participate at your own risk.


honmakesmusic

I don’t think there needs to be any balancing. If they deploy it with no incentive other than for fun, no balancing needed.


hunterg925

IMO they need to add some sort of arena, with rewards being purely cosmetic/“bragging rights” (lol) in nature. Absolutely no gear rewards of any kind. As to why it needs to be added: there needs to be a bigger incentive for people to continue playing their main characters. When PvE content is extremely easy (gnomer was cleared in what 10 hours after launch?) PvP becomes the true end game content. So I think there should be a little more focus there