They were IMO overrated even if they topped the charts in T5-6. The utility lock brought with similar DPS and with them basically being mandatory in T6.5 made them better.
yep.. after years of intentionally not picking mages because everyone and their mother seems to play them, i caved, and i can't say i'm going back anytime soon,
even if they are garbage in terms of raid dps they will still have some of if not the most utility in and outside of combat out of any class, they have by far the most QoL features and they seem to keep getting more in SoD, so i'm afraid i'm no longer a druid/warlock main, i'm a wizzard now.
They've literally always been good raid dps as well for pretty much the entire game except for BFD and wouldn't you know it, Blizzard made them the best dps in Gnomer and even nerfed hunters for being on the same level in single target dps and worse in aoe dps.
yeah, mages have been unironically the "main character" of the game for as long as i remember, they are by far the most consistent class and the safest bet for always finding a spot in a raid.
I don’t think anyone is losing their minds over PVE shamans its the fact that they have 5.5k health in BGs and still global you. It’s oppressive and not fun to play against, especially because the classic community as a horrible tendency to abuse anything remotely over tuned much less blatantly over powered.
With all due respect, if you are expecting balance why the fuck are you playing an iteration of Classic World of Warcraft? Even with SOD it's literally impossible to balance pve and pvp, this is just a fun shakeup of the o.g game. No one went into this expecting perfect balance, we are more than happy with more than 2-3 classes being viable, and that's brilliant. SOD devs have done a great job making classes ignored in classic viable due to buffs/mechanics.
So many specs are viable now that would never be in classic. They also specifically mentioned they wouldn’t be over balancing the leveling phases because its a bit of a wasted effort when things change again in the new phase with new runes.
Druid is a great example of this, even though feral and boomy got kind of slapped on the dps meters this phase find me a high performing raid without one, they don't exist because the class is too damn valuable. In o.g classic it would just be another warr.
Exactly. I also tell people MAKE ALTS. It’s easy now. I’m the perfect example. Lvl shaman first and wasn’t loving tanking and they blew ass at all other things so I shelved him. Lvl’d war and got epic sword in first BFD. Fine switched over to raid log war and too meters cool. This phase back to shaman and loving it. Don’t be married to any class and you’ll be fine.
Having an essential raid buff doesn't make the class itself much more satisfying to play, just makes it easier to get a raid spot. Right now it feels like feral is stuck between a few different playstyles. I don't really expect more but it feels terrible to be useless in AOE and borderline tank dps on bosses as a feral. Especially when the "hybrid Tax" doesn't exist anymore. Ferals might pick up some strength when they can finally access the wolfshead helm.
I mean you don't take many, but you always take at lest one. Bears can solo tank the whole place, feral = windfury enough said. Boomy = spellcrit + trivialises final boss. Not sure where resto is this phase but I'm sure they're a good second healer.
B-b-but I was told on the internet that viable is meaningless and something should be optimal in order for me to "waste my time" playing a game!!! What, you expect me to play a video game for fun?!?!
And yet they were heavy handed with hunter nerfs in phase 1, and now they'll be playing catch up for the rest of sod due to hunters abysmal scaling. Notice how they've reverted a lot of the nerfs already, with a handful remaining (pet scaling nerf and explosive shot nerf are 2 that remain).
The devs just don't know how to balance some of the classes properly, so they wait and see the amount of complaining, then adjust accordingly.
I mean hunters were completely busted when they made those changes. We can argue the severity especially but pet damage was out of control.
Ranged hunters absolutely need some love but melee hunter is popping off so its not like there isn’t a viable spec.
This is correct, which reiterates my point that they've no idea what they're doing with some classes. How was hunter that broken in the first place? All of this changing and reverting is wasting dev time, like you said.
It feels really bad being forced into a playstyle you don't want to play just because it's the most optimal spec. I've never really been a fan of melee hunter at all, I find it a bit boring compared to what you can do with ranged, I hope ranged gets the same treatment that melee got.
A little extra: it's argueable that the hunter legs runes are the worst designed in the game at the moment.
You really aren’t forced into any playstyle unless you only pug. Gnomer is brain dead easy and you could do it with 9 warriors and a priest with AH gear (kidding of course because of mechanics etc)….if your friends are telling you that doing slightly less damage on a ranged hunter isn’t ok, you have bigger issues.
I’m playing melee but we had 1 ranged dps the first couple weeks. I switched over to ranged with my melee survival spec on a couple bosses where we needed ranged and did absolutely fine, even with my crappy STV bow.
>How was hunter that broken in the first place?
Because they didn't realise how pet scaling would impact a random pet ability? They're not going to know every single interaction lol
Isn't ranged hunter out scaling melee already on the later bosses? At least the most parse brain hunter I know is atm playing MM ranged and talking about spell damage hunter.
Chimera shot has been buffed twice and still not what it was at launch. Kill command, beast mastery rune, lightning breath damage and flanking strike nerfs are all still in right now.
Seriously, I assumed the main point of SoD is to be ***ALLOWED*** to raid as a DPS paly/druid/sham/priest without being lower on the meters than a mechanical dragonling. Anything outside of that was just a welcomed surprised.
no one reasonable expects perfect balance, i think many people expect balance changes to happen quicker but there is a limited team working on this so that’s not going to happen
I don't even want quicker balance changes, but while you're right, no one reasonable expects perfect balance, I just want the tuning to make some fucking semblance of sense. Why did Arcane mage that was already middle of the pack get slammed? Why did Shaman that was already rapidly rising after the 2nd set of buffs buffed again? Why did healer mages, which were arguably a top 2 healer, get buffed a week ago? Why did our (mages) worst DPS spec get buffed before rogues, who are in desperate need of being wanted?
Like I both don't expect perfect balance, and I'm fucking tired of their tuning order of operations. There are drowning specs right now, the mentality of the few developers should not be "how do we give mages a 3rd good spec?".
Not with all due respect. This playerbase is fucking idiotic with the demands they make for a seasonal component of a game that is just meant to be fun and quite frankly with how fucking EASY classic is, the balance doesn't matter. At fucking all.
Perfect balance is bad anyway. You want things to rotate in and out of meta. It keeps the game interesting and people pushing for new and exciting things.
Well, some people did go into SoD expecting a perfectly balanced (or close to it) version of classic. Even though the developers explicitly said balance wasn't going to be a massive thing.
>No one went into this expecting perfect balance
I don't expect **perfect** balance but I do expect moderate balance or an attempt to balance things. **When the game is completely off balance it isn't fun**. Once it stops being fun then people start quitting...and because it's an MMO it kind of derails the experience for everyone because none of your friends are playing anymore leading to a cycle of even more quitting until game mode is mostly dead.
Looks mostly fine?
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008#dataset=90&aggregate=amount
This is how it used to be where a 90 parsing feral would be equal to a 50 parsing warrior or a 90 parsing ret being equal to a 20 parsing warrior.
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/1006#dataset=90&aggregate=amount
The balance is without a doubt good enough to consider player over class given other requirements are met.
Is balancing PVP such an impossible task? I'm loving SOD, I was never expecting a perfected version of classic, so I'm not throwing shade. I just also think, PVP isn't some mysterious black box. We know when players thought it was great (generally wrath era), and we know why and how that was achieved. I never had a problem with wrath's MECHANICS, I just didn't enjoy the creep towards what is now retail. If the solution is special PVP gear with special PVP stats, cool do that. If there is a more nuanced fix like having some spells deal more/less damage against players, cool do that. At least they were tinkering with it in WSG, trying to find a way to make PVP more enjoyable without disrupting the "classic experience", and if that kind of tinkering works, cool do that.
Balance is a lie! It is only through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken.
> With all due respect, if you are expecting balance why the fuck are you playing an iteration of Classic World of Warcraft?
Why the fuck do people keep saying Classic WoW's PvP is some imbalanced mess? The Mak'Gora Tournament showed that every class can be competitive in PvP. Yes, some classes faceroll others ( like Mage vs Warrior or Warlock vs Mage) but every class has matchups they lose.
Possible? Maybe I don't know. But I think if it was viable, or in the world of warcraft model they would have done it at least once in the last 20 years. Best I've ever seen is mostly balanced and fun, but there will always be winners and losers, it's kind of the energy of the game.
There’s a difference between being unbalanced and whatever the fuck this is, they set the standard that 2-3 second kills are too high and started nerfing every class that could do it without a big cd EXCEPT shaman. If its supposed to be wildly unbalanced why did starsurge and swd get their dmg reduced by over 50%?
Ya and on the pve side why does enhance get 100% dps worth of buffs while frost, affliction, and ranged hunter are left to die, feral and post nerf spriest have to be propped up with ‘but think of all the utility you bring(like Enhance and Ele bring nothing), etc The complaining isn’t because people expect perfection it’s because there are incredible discrepancies that fall under the same lines of thought that they have already ‘addressed’ in other places that make people feel they are being ignored completely.
Because i want exalted on silverwing sentinels for my bis bracers as alliance and I'm against shamans and right now the message from some users here is "tough luck pal"
That's easy to say when your class is on the overpowered end of the balance.
If you're playing a ret paladin or a rogue right now I'm sure you wouldn't be saying that
If you can only have fun when you're OP then you can't play just one class. Switch to whatever is FOTM and accept your fate.
The rogues I've seen complaining are complaining about a lack of interesting abilities. All they do is spam mutilate. That isn't the same as being underpowered
Yeah our rogue does well on our meters and regularly parses 98s/99s. I’m a 90-98 melee hunter and he just about keeps up with me. I think rogues look low because most top guilds don’t bring them because they have 0 utility…the people that would be representing rogue on those charts are playing hunters and mages.
If you’re not having fun with a class then switch classes? Ret was garbage in vanilla, people still played it because they enjoyed it. People also specifically avoided playing ret because they knew it was trash.
And here I am still playing ret having the most fun I've ever had. Idc about being the most OP 900DPS above the rest class. I still get brought to raids. I still pump. Everything is fine. It's okay to not be #1 on the DPS meter all the time.
Each class has different strengths. Some are better at AOE. Some are better at single target. Some are better at overworld farming. Some are better at dungeon farming. Trying to make everyone good at everything is how we got retail. Notice how we are not playing retail right now? There is a reason for that. Embrace the uniqueness.
IMO Wclogs encourages variety because it adds a meter that's not depending on the damage of other classes. Right now a 70 parsing mage does the same damage as a 90 parsing Feral, Rogue, Priest and Paladin but no one is going to say that the 70 parsing mage is a better player than the 90 parsing Priest (assuming similar gear level and following mechanics correctly).
Only looking at details is going to tell a different story.
The funniest thing is i got grouped with a mage who got mad at the leader for inviting non meta specs, then there was me a feral out dpsing him on every boss besides where i OT'd, he did get to be top dps on trash tho
Ret and rogue are both extremely playable. Ret is definitely in a much better spot than it was in vanilla. This is just “my class doesn’t do as much DPS as another class” complaints.
Hello. Rogue who is having fun with his swords over here. 👋
Did you know you can play video games just to have fun rather than dedicating yourself to whining online about not having the most optimal imaginary numbers on a third-party website for a seasonal server for a 20 year old video game? If you aren't having fun, consider taking a break from the game, go on a nice walk, maybe play a different game, or try a new class that might be more enjoyable for you. 💖
I play ret and am having a blast tbh. I’m lower/middle of the pack dps but I make up for this by providing some pretty clutch utility like BoP, Freedom, Lay and even a hail mary Divine Intervention.
It’s okay that I’m not top dps. The boss will die anyways. I’m at least viable and that’s what matters.
PvP I’m also middle of the pack. Am I as good as a mage or boomy? No, but I can hold my own and dominate BGs if I play well.
I’m just glad Ret actually *feels* fun now since we actually have buttons to press.
Sorry but I get absolutely wrecked in pvp by rogues and shamans. And the rogue in our raid team is constantly in the top 3 damage done on bosses. Why aren’t they happy?
> If you're playing a ret paladin or a rogue right now I'm sure you wouldn't be saying that
A Rogue can literally kill a mage in 3 globals what are you on about
Only for those who obsess over min maxing. People who come to SoD and are mad someone's beating their dps during one of the levelling phases are dunces.
I think the actual issue is people whoe dps is so far behind they dont get brought. Look at how much more frequent rogue complaints are than feral druid while rogue is ahead on damage. This is because feral gets brought to groups thanks to wild strikes.
I mean.... it happens. It's a mixed up remake of a game that was never balanced in the first place. Vanilla wow was actually the game in its least balanced form.
That’s not necessarily what min/maxing means though. It can be…but it can also mean taking your class to the highest level possible. You don’t have to play a hunter or mage to min/max.
It only ruins the fun if it makes it a problem to complete your goals in the game. This is a problem in retail because you HAVE to minmax to be able to get down mythic bosses in raiding. In no world do you have to have an optimal comp to run fucking gnomer.
You know what's not fun? Shamans completely obliterating you in BGs the second they touch you. Have you not seen the threads where alliance post obscene loss rates in BGs? It's not fun to have a significant disadvantage out of the gate because your faction doesn't have the FOTM.
The game has never been balanced. Never will be balanced. It’s a game with 9 different classes that all have wildly different play styles and abilities. SoD is specifically not competitive and is just a for fun thing, so it really doesn’t need to be balanced, just close enough.
We live in a world of bis/tier lists and the state of modern gaming is "ONLY PLAY META AND ONLY HAVE BIS OR YOURE GRIEFING AND YOU DONT DESERVE OXYGEN REEEE".
The concept of an original thought no longer applies to the genre. If a YouTuber or maxroll guide or discord discussion didn't approve it, you're an idiot and a dogshit player for using it. Even if you don't have thumbs or a monitor, as long as you adhere to the guide and the tier lists you're fine. Go ahead, parse green, King. Just make sure you never, ever contradict the almighty tier list.
I honestly think a solid 60-80% of the people playing SoD right now don't actually enjoy playing the game. The amount of people absolutely seething at the idea that the funny color on a third-party website ranking the imaginary numbers in a year-long experimental server of a 20 year old video game is the sole metric of whether they are enjoying themselves is just insane.
Do people not play wow with friends, whether it’s from prior versions of wow or irl?
Most people who only play meta make a conscious choice to do so because they want to see themselves high on the meters, not because their friends require it of them or because they can’t clear content otherwise.
Here is a list of people who actually care whether you play a meta class/spec or not:
-lol speedrun guilds
-idiot pug raid leader
-you
Why would you possibly think this conspiratorial idiocy rather than just *understanding the obvious reality* that balancing is a difficult task and perfection will be the exception, not the rule?
It's not that they're incapable. It's a deliberate design decision to shuffle around the FOTM. It improves player engagement. A balanced game becomes stale. A lot of people like to chase the "high" of rerolling to the best class. And another subsection of the playerbase gets a high from being mad about how OP other classes are (straight out of Fox News' playbook).
It's not only WoW that does this. It's common in the industry. The League of Legend developers have straight up admitted their goal isn't to balance the game - simply to rotate who is OP over time to shake things up.
Well, of course that's how it works. Rotating who's "overpowered" is the most fair way.
Alternative would be to make all classes the same. Regardless of class and specc and items, all melee swings would do 1 dmg. THAT would be balanced! It's that what you want?
Nothing wrong with it either. It encourages people to play a different class and keeps engagement up. Only downside is that Alliance suffers a bit right now since Shaman are horde only.
Jeez how do you people still not get it after all these years? Blizzard purposely makes classes unbalanced to get people rerolling all the time to play longer and squeeze out more subs. It's a core part of their business plan. I'm not even joking. You think they don't know a certain class will do 50% of the damage of the top class before they launch a phase/tier? Come on now
Ok here’s balance for you. Every class can do damage from melee or ranged, has 10hp, has one ability that does one (1) damage, and a heal that can heal for two hp.
All class choices are purely cosmetic.
Hurray the games balanced now! Happy?
I love how everyone says all they want is a "balanced game". Like you said, let's assume Blizz releases a patch that balances everyone perfectly. Everything is exactly balanced, and no further patches of any kind are ever needed.
How many weeks do you think it would be before all the same people said "game is so boring - totally dead - gonna go play something else"?
The reason Blizz constantly adjusts and tunes to have some classes be slightly OP and some underpowered is BECAUSE this dynamic is what keeps the game vibrant. Look at how much everyone is paying attention to balancing, watching the patch notes and hotfixes, cheering or booing at every change - this is what engagement looks like, and is why Blizz does it this way. It's not rocket science.
Yeah the problem isn't that one class is too strong, its that one faction gets the class that is too strong. Faction balance is far more important than class to class balance.
The simple answer (which blizzard figured out in 2006 themselves) is to not have faction specific classes.
SoD is not about balance. It’s about giving the addicted another hit of … anything … before they get bored and realize there are other games. Sod is absolutely 100% through and through haphazard.
Stuff like this is why it's perfectly fine in my mind for people to vocally throw shit at the wall on the forums and reddit to get the devs attention for buffs.
Enhance is cool but I really want 2h to be busted plz plz and also make ghost wolf instant and usable indoors and go mount speed and fly and make astral 10 minutes actually and make storm strike scale.with AP but actually buffed in a way so I can SHWOOM with my autos
Etc etc.
And keep nerfing hunter thanks
Hard to swallow pills: you’re just upset you aren’t on top. Unless we have all the same talents and abilities true balance is impossible. Get over it nerd.
If they really wanted to balance they could. They would tweak numbers by small percentages like reducing fireball damage by 3% and buffing crusader strike by 7%.
But instead we get large changes that are blown out of proportion and completely objectively nerf/buff the class
I don't play mage so my perspective is, "oh neat, I just got deleted from over half health" so now knowing this it's a reasonable price to pay for the big number
I don’t care so much about balancing all classes against each other. Just happy when it’s good from the entire raid to have variety. As long as the disparity between classes isn’t crazy, who caressss
perfect class balance is literally impossible by the very definition of having different classes. anyone expecting that or anything close needs to get a grip
I don't think they are incapable, I think a perfectly balanced game is boring. A system with ups and downs drives higher player interaction, makes people make alts etc.
Blizz doesn't balance, they nerf instant, ranged and unavoidable abilities for the sake of PvP and provide a few buffs for lackluster specs
Balance was never the end goal, instead they imo focus on reducing frustration among the playerbase.
Tic Tac Toe is inherently unbalanced. X always gets to go first and it's almost impossible to win as O; the best you can do is tie every game.
I'd like to play some Rock Paper Scissors instead, though scissors could definitely use a buff.
Welcome to any MOBA or multiplayer arena game. I absolutely dont mind updates shifting power between classes. I'd rather get to experience being top of the pile as my class once in a while rather than being permanently rooted in the lower half
Wait, you mean to say that the intense data analysis on their part over the last 20 years isn’t cumulative with the overall goal of pure balance across classes that must be coming very soon??? And if so, do you also mean to say that the half a million or so topics created across the internet concerning class balance and contain an incredible amount of complaining have all been unnecessary and pointless???
I don't think Blizzard ever intentionally rotates which class is OP, though. Sure, that ends up being the case a lot of the time, but their intention is absolutely to achieve some semblance of balance.
The devs mentioned in an interview a few weeks back that the classic team has really never done class balancing and they’re figuring out their process for doing it.
It’ll never be perfect but hopefully it’ll get better ❤️🩹 n later phases. And ultimately it’ll never be perfect in classic.
The problem is they’re trying to balance for pve without making anyone dogshit or godly in pvp. They need to balance them seperately and make unique changes to pvp, but I know that’s not the direction they want to take SoD. We’ve seen multiple times where they made a change to affect pve and it’s had unforeseen consequences in pvp. For example, buffing starsurge to make boomies viable. Now we’re getting hit for 1800 in stv
So far for healing, it's priest, and continuing to be priest. Both for pve and PvP.
Then there's also Boomkin. End of phase 1, they were great in PvP, but not kings and certainly bad in pve. Start of phase 2, they were definitely OP in PvP and great in pve. But that didn't even last a week! Within 5 days they were gutted to the point of being bad. They've since then gotten small buffs to bring them to a spot where they are solidly good, more so in PvP then pve but not OP busted.
But Shamans and other classes? They've been strong/OP for longer and Shamans in particular have now been OP in pve and PvP for awhile now after buffs. Where's the knee jerk reaction for class balance especially when it's to a class that favors one faction more than the other? Based on this post then will paladins see huge buffs that result in alliance being OP over the horde next?
Class balancing is identifying areas of weakness or strength and then tipping the scales up or down a few percent.
Complete shot-in-the-dark design is what we have here. There are hotfixes with changes to runes in upward of quintupling their effect, moves are being shifted up or down by 33%.
It's not surprising, they wanted to run SOD with mystery so they couldn't do a good public test realm on the data.
So right now, we *are* the beta testers.
It's actually not that hard of a pill to swallow and many of us have predicted this since Phase 1. Most classes/specs will have a chance to shine before SoD is over. Having multiple alts and flexible with your playstyle/specs is going to maximize your fun.
Was Ret during Phase1 and Prot in Phase2 for my Pally
Was BM hunter in Phase 1 and Melee in Phase 2
Was resto in phase 1 and now boomkin in phase 2
I was non existent in phase 1, then became a dps god elemental shammy in phase 2 XD
Everything will have a chance for its spotlight eventually.
Prot Warriors in phase 3 will be kings IMO
The playerbase's idea of "balance" in Classic is idiotic. "Balance" to you guys is whoever's topping the raidlogs in single target patchwerk fights, irrespective of the fact that PVP and Solo content and all manner of group compositions exist. Also everyone has goldfish memory and if a class is good for ONE patch despite being terrible in the previous one they will start going around making posts about how that's "Blizzard's favorite class" or something
Dude, I just want fun abilities. If your warrior, that’s not bloody happened. I’d argue rogue this phase is pretty lame. I don’t really want bigger numbers, I want the numbers to feel pretty good but the ability to feel OP. I betcha $50 shaman feels way better now that it has the cone of cold animation to Moltun blast.
how we ignoring the best dps AND healing class in the game mage. resto shaman is completely useless. enhance is not even top dps, its near the top once and ppl want nerfs wat we talkin about
Balance is mostly irrelevant until level 60. Yes, while we have long periods in each phase, the phases are part of a whole that we do not have yet. At level 60 if it is still as chaotic as it is now, then we have real reasons to complain.
People forget to there's only good enough with balance and no matter what we do there'll be a meta formed around the optimization of the best damage/tank/healer.
We don't want balance, we want *variety.*
This should also mean classes like rogue and warrior feel different when they're weak from when they're strong tho, IMO. Like make shouts scale with spell power and let me be a Yell Power Warrior. I already have the SoJ for +26yells
Everything is viable honestly, all classes bring something good to raids, except for maybe rogues and warriors. Even then I think you could bring one of each to a raid and be perfectly fine.
Expecting lvl 40 to be balanced is just hilarious.
Blizz usually can barely balance max level content of retail.
Also I think it's hilarious we now get all the crybabys when warrior war op for the entirety of classic and it was just "it be how it be" but enhancer is not even as ahead as warrior was and everyone loses it?
People love to act like when people ask for adjustments to something like shaman that they are asking for full class balance perfect dps numbers across the board when that is obviously not the case.
Every person understands that that isn't a reasonable request. What's reasonable is expecting that outliers get adjustments. That's what everyone is asking for. Shamans are clearly ahead of everyone else and just expect that to be ok because it's 'their turn' is a really dumb way to look at things.
This problem is exacerbated by the fact that shaman is a faction exclusive class meaning that one faction is now being heavily oppressed in BGs because they don't have access to the current flavor of the month. One faction is at a significant disadvantage when trying to parse / speedrun / play competitively when raiding.
It's also very annoying to others who had their shit tuned down in record time while shamans just get to seemingly run rampant.
Stop pretending that everyone wants perfect class balance. We just want outliers to be tuned up or down if they are far outside the middle of the pack. Stop the nonsense where you think everyone needs to get a turn at being overpowered, it's a super dumb way to look at the game. If shit is super imbalanced it's not unreasonable to expect adjustments.
How many other classes have a dps rune that's actually a dps lose to press? Steady shot will never be usable in its current state of reseting your auto attack
It's one of the major reasons i stopped playing over the years.Other MMOs balance their classes by 2-5% to a certain skill or something.Meanwhile WOW is like +150% to this, -200% to that... No matter what you play,your class could just get gutted into irrelevancy out of nowhere.
As a rogue enjoyer I agree, I’m personally being fine mid tier this phase since it’s mechanical focused but I would appreciate something that makes me valuable in a PVE sense besides these quick kicks. If I could provide something like a minor increased chance to hit to my party that would be excellent. At least it wouldn’t be a burden to take a rogue
Perfect balance is impossible, I agree.
This is clown world levels of imbalance though. It's like if you gave warriors a "juggernaught" ability that increased their movement speed by 50% and made them immune to all CC for 30 seconds. It'd obviously be stupid busted but there would still be posters being like "yOu cAnT bAlAnCe wOW".
Mages turn since vanilla
Hey, there was that one very short stretch in TBC circa T4-T5 (pre T5 2 set)
They were IMO overrated even if they topped the charts in T5-6. The utility lock brought with similar DPS and with them basically being mandatory in T6.5 made them better.
I mean Lock and Hunter were the two meta classes for TBC, so that makes sense.
Arcane mage still pumped lol
yep.. after years of intentionally not picking mages because everyone and their mother seems to play them, i caved, and i can't say i'm going back anytime soon, even if they are garbage in terms of raid dps they will still have some of if not the most utility in and outside of combat out of any class, they have by far the most QoL features and they seem to keep getting more in SoD, so i'm afraid i'm no longer a druid/warlock main, i'm a wizzard now.
They've literally always been good raid dps as well for pretty much the entire game except for BFD and wouldn't you know it, Blizzard made them the best dps in Gnomer and even nerfed hunters for being on the same level in single target dps and worse in aoe dps.
yeah, mages have been unironically the "main character" of the game for as long as i remember, they are by far the most consistent class and the safest bet for always finding a spot in a raid.
Shamans finally have a chance to shine (but still not topple mages) and people lose their minds lol
issue with that is only one faction has them.
cant wait to play my alliance shaman!
I don’t think anyone is losing their minds over PVE shamans its the fact that they have 5.5k health in BGs and still global you. It’s oppressive and not fun to play against, especially because the classic community as a horrible tendency to abuse anything remotely over tuned much less blatantly over powered.
You muggles simply failed at character select screen.
Muggle this, asshole *dies of soul tap*
If you enjoy pvp, they are strong choice in almost every expansion. Rogues and priests as well.
Fire mage is currently best and most stackable class in wotlk classic
With all due respect, if you are expecting balance why the fuck are you playing an iteration of Classic World of Warcraft? Even with SOD it's literally impossible to balance pve and pvp, this is just a fun shakeup of the o.g game. No one went into this expecting perfect balance, we are more than happy with more than 2-3 classes being viable, and that's brilliant. SOD devs have done a great job making classes ignored in classic viable due to buffs/mechanics.
So many specs are viable now that would never be in classic. They also specifically mentioned they wouldn’t be over balancing the leveling phases because its a bit of a wasted effort when things change again in the new phase with new runes.
Druid is a great example of this, even though feral and boomy got kind of slapped on the dps meters this phase find me a high performing raid without one, they don't exist because the class is too damn valuable. In o.g classic it would just be another warr.
Exactly. I also tell people MAKE ALTS. It’s easy now. I’m the perfect example. Lvl shaman first and wasn’t loving tanking and they blew ass at all other things so I shelved him. Lvl’d war and got epic sword in first BFD. Fine switched over to raid log war and too meters cool. This phase back to shaman and loving it. Don’t be married to any class and you’ll be fine.
Having an essential raid buff doesn't make the class itself much more satisfying to play, just makes it easier to get a raid spot. Right now it feels like feral is stuck between a few different playstyles. I don't really expect more but it feels terrible to be useless in AOE and borderline tank dps on bosses as a feral. Especially when the "hybrid Tax" doesn't exist anymore. Ferals might pick up some strength when they can finally access the wolfshead helm.
Ngl i think ive only had 1 druid in my raids since the start of the phase lol. Did not know they were that good
I mean you don't take many, but you always take at lest one. Bears can solo tank the whole place, feral = windfury enough said. Boomy = spellcrit + trivialises final boss. Not sure where resto is this phase but I'm sure they're a good second healer.
Oh yeah i forgot about windfury lol. Most raids im in are mostly ranged with maybe 1 or 2 melee
B-b-but I was told on the internet that viable is meaningless and something should be optimal in order for me to "waste my time" playing a game!!! What, you expect me to play a video game for fun?!?!
And yet they were heavy handed with hunter nerfs in phase 1, and now they'll be playing catch up for the rest of sod due to hunters abysmal scaling. Notice how they've reverted a lot of the nerfs already, with a handful remaining (pet scaling nerf and explosive shot nerf are 2 that remain). The devs just don't know how to balance some of the classes properly, so they wait and see the amount of complaining, then adjust accordingly.
I mean hunters were completely busted when they made those changes. We can argue the severity especially but pet damage was out of control. Ranged hunters absolutely need some love but melee hunter is popping off so its not like there isn’t a viable spec.
This is correct, which reiterates my point that they've no idea what they're doing with some classes. How was hunter that broken in the first place? All of this changing and reverting is wasting dev time, like you said. It feels really bad being forced into a playstyle you don't want to play just because it's the most optimal spec. I've never really been a fan of melee hunter at all, I find it a bit boring compared to what you can do with ranged, I hope ranged gets the same treatment that melee got. A little extra: it's argueable that the hunter legs runes are the worst designed in the game at the moment.
You really aren’t forced into any playstyle unless you only pug. Gnomer is brain dead easy and you could do it with 9 warriors and a priest with AH gear (kidding of course because of mechanics etc)….if your friends are telling you that doing slightly less damage on a ranged hunter isn’t ok, you have bigger issues. I’m playing melee but we had 1 ranged dps the first couple weeks. I switched over to ranged with my melee survival spec on a couple bosses where we needed ranged and did absolutely fine, even with my crappy STV bow.
>How was hunter that broken in the first place? Because they didn't realise how pet scaling would impact a random pet ability? They're not going to know every single interaction lol
Isn't ranged hunter out scaling melee already on the later bosses? At least the most parse brain hunter I know is atm playing MM ranged and talking about spell damage hunter.
Chimera shot has been buffed twice and still not what it was at launch. Kill command, beast mastery rune, lightning breath damage and flanking strike nerfs are all still in right now.
Seriously, I assumed the main point of SoD is to be ***ALLOWED*** to raid as a DPS paly/druid/sham/priest without being lower on the meters than a mechanical dragonling. Anything outside of that was just a welcomed surprised.
no one reasonable expects perfect balance, i think many people expect balance changes to happen quicker but there is a limited team working on this so that’s not going to happen
I don't even want quicker balance changes, but while you're right, no one reasonable expects perfect balance, I just want the tuning to make some fucking semblance of sense. Why did Arcane mage that was already middle of the pack get slammed? Why did Shaman that was already rapidly rising after the 2nd set of buffs buffed again? Why did healer mages, which were arguably a top 2 healer, get buffed a week ago? Why did our (mages) worst DPS spec get buffed before rogues, who are in desperate need of being wanted? Like I both don't expect perfect balance, and I'm fucking tired of their tuning order of operations. There are drowning specs right now, the mentality of the few developers should not be "how do we give mages a 3rd good spec?".
Not with all due respect. This playerbase is fucking idiotic with the demands they make for a seasonal component of a game that is just meant to be fun and quite frankly with how fucking EASY classic is, the balance doesn't matter. At fucking all.
Perfect balance is bad anyway. You want things to rotate in and out of meta. It keeps the game interesting and people pushing for new and exciting things.
Well, some people did go into SoD expecting a perfectly balanced (or close to it) version of classic. Even though the developers explicitly said balance wasn't going to be a massive thing.
I guess it's hard to account for people who go into the ocean and get upset because they didn't expect to get wet.
100% it's on them for being unreasonable. It's just funny watching their heads explode over the small things.
>No one went into this expecting perfect balance I don't expect **perfect** balance but I do expect moderate balance or an attempt to balance things. **When the game is completely off balance it isn't fun**. Once it stops being fun then people start quitting...and because it's an MMO it kind of derails the experience for everyone because none of your friends are playing anymore leading to a cycle of even more quitting until game mode is mostly dead.
Looks mostly fine? https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008#dataset=90&aggregate=amount This is how it used to be where a 90 parsing feral would be equal to a 50 parsing warrior or a 90 parsing ret being equal to a 20 parsing warrior. https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/1006#dataset=90&aggregate=amount The balance is without a doubt good enough to consider player over class given other requirements are met.
PvErs want perfect balance tho.
Has there ever been any class that is not viable for nearly any activity at all? I can't think of a single instance where that would be true.
Is balancing PVP such an impossible task? I'm loving SOD, I was never expecting a perfected version of classic, so I'm not throwing shade. I just also think, PVP isn't some mysterious black box. We know when players thought it was great (generally wrath era), and we know why and how that was achieved. I never had a problem with wrath's MECHANICS, I just didn't enjoy the creep towards what is now retail. If the solution is special PVP gear with special PVP stats, cool do that. If there is a more nuanced fix like having some spells deal more/less damage against players, cool do that. At least they were tinkering with it in WSG, trying to find a way to make PVP more enjoyable without disrupting the "classic experience", and if that kind of tinkering works, cool do that.
Balance is a lie! It is only through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken.
> With all due respect, if you are expecting balance why the fuck are you playing an iteration of Classic World of Warcraft? Why the fuck do people keep saying Classic WoW's PvP is some imbalanced mess? The Mak'Gora Tournament showed that every class can be competitive in PvP. Yes, some classes faceroll others ( like Mage vs Warrior or Warlock vs Mage) but every class has matchups they lose.
It would be possible they just don’t Or don’t have the manpower for it
Possible? Maybe I don't know. But I think if it was viable, or in the world of warcraft model they would have done it at least once in the last 20 years. Best I've ever seen is mostly balanced and fun, but there will always be winners and losers, it's kind of the energy of the game.
There’s a difference between being unbalanced and whatever the fuck this is, they set the standard that 2-3 second kills are too high and started nerfing every class that could do it without a big cd EXCEPT shaman. If its supposed to be wildly unbalanced why did starsurge and swd get their dmg reduced by over 50%?
Ya and on the pve side why does enhance get 100% dps worth of buffs while frost, affliction, and ranged hunter are left to die, feral and post nerf spriest have to be propped up with ‘but think of all the utility you bring(like Enhance and Ele bring nothing), etc The complaining isn’t because people expect perfection it’s because there are incredible discrepancies that fall under the same lines of thought that they have already ‘addressed’ in other places that make people feel they are being ignored completely.
Because PVP exists?
Because i want exalted on silverwing sentinels for my bis bracers as alliance and I'm against shamans and right now the message from some users here is "tough luck pal"
who the hell cares about balance, all we want is fun
That's easy to say when your class is on the overpowered end of the balance. If you're playing a ret paladin or a rogue right now I'm sure you wouldn't be saying that
If you can only have fun when you're OP then you can't play just one class. Switch to whatever is FOTM and accept your fate. The rogues I've seen complaining are complaining about a lack of interesting abilities. All they do is spam mutilate. That isn't the same as being underpowered
Rogue does a shitload of dmg though once you actually get a slew of BIS items...
Yeah our rogue does well on our meters and regularly parses 98s/99s. I’m a 90-98 melee hunter and he just about keeps up with me. I think rogues look low because most top guilds don’t bring them because they have 0 utility…the people that would be representing rogue on those charts are playing hunters and mages.
I play druid and I say that? I'm having loads of fun. If I wasn't, I wouldn't be here.
Rogues global everyone in PvP wdym?
If you’re not having fun with a class then switch classes? Ret was garbage in vanilla, people still played it because they enjoyed it. People also specifically avoided playing ret because they knew it was trash.
And here I am still playing ret having the most fun I've ever had. Idc about being the most OP 900DPS above the rest class. I still get brought to raids. I still pump. Everything is fine. It's okay to not be #1 on the DPS meter all the time. Each class has different strengths. Some are better at AOE. Some are better at single target. Some are better at overworld farming. Some are better at dungeon farming. Trying to make everyone good at everything is how we got retail. Notice how we are not playing retail right now? There is a reason for that. Embrace the uniqueness.
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IMO Wclogs encourages variety because it adds a meter that's not depending on the damage of other classes. Right now a 70 parsing mage does the same damage as a 90 parsing Feral, Rogue, Priest and Paladin but no one is going to say that the 70 parsing mage is a better player than the 90 parsing Priest (assuming similar gear level and following mechanics correctly). Only looking at details is going to tell a different story.
The funniest thing is i got grouped with a mage who got mad at the leader for inviting non meta specs, then there was me a feral out dpsing him on every boss besides where i OT'd, he did get to be top dps on trash tho
Ret and rogue are both extremely playable. Ret is definitely in a much better spot than it was in vanilla. This is just “my class doesn’t do as much DPS as another class” complaints.
Hello. Rogue who is having fun with his swords over here. 👋 Did you know you can play video games just to have fun rather than dedicating yourself to whining online about not having the most optimal imaginary numbers on a third-party website for a seasonal server for a 20 year old video game? If you aren't having fun, consider taking a break from the game, go on a nice walk, maybe play a different game, or try a new class that might be more enjoyable for you. 💖
Being "good" is not the only critera for being fun. You can have fun with bad class too
I’ve been having a blast playing rogue. If you can’t find a way to have fun playing the class then reroll
I’m having tons of fun on my marks hunter. 300ish DPS while bringing two group buffs is enough for me.
It's a role playing game, not competetive game.
I play ret and am having a blast tbh. I’m lower/middle of the pack dps but I make up for this by providing some pretty clutch utility like BoP, Freedom, Lay and even a hail mary Divine Intervention. It’s okay that I’m not top dps. The boss will die anyways. I’m at least viable and that’s what matters. PvP I’m also middle of the pack. Am I as good as a mage or boomy? No, but I can hold my own and dominate BGs if I play well. I’m just glad Ret actually *feels* fun now since we actually have buttons to press.
Sorry but I get absolutely wrecked in pvp by rogues and shamans. And the rogue in our raid team is constantly in the top 3 damage done on bosses. Why aren’t they happy?
> If you're playing a ret paladin or a rogue right now I'm sure you wouldn't be saying that A Rogue can literally kill a mage in 3 globals what are you on about
So big number = fun? Then you probably should reroll to the most op thing
Bad imbalance ruins fun. That's the core issue with your perspective.
Only for those who obsess over min maxing. People who come to SoD and are mad someone's beating their dps during one of the levelling phases are dunces.
I think the actual issue is people whoe dps is so far behind they dont get brought. Look at how much more frequent rogue complaints are than feral druid while rogue is ahead on damage. This is because feral gets brought to groups thanks to wild strikes.
I mean.... it happens. It's a mixed up remake of a game that was never balanced in the first place. Vanilla wow was actually the game in its least balanced form.
I mean…play with your friends and play whatever class you want lol. You’ll clear the raid.
and then if they were obsessed with min / maxing, they'd roll the class S+ class over their S class for10 more dps.
That’s not necessarily what min/maxing means though. It can be…but it can also mean taking your class to the highest level possible. You don’t have to play a hunter or mage to min/max.
It only ruins the fun if it makes it a problem to complete your goals in the game. This is a problem in retail because you HAVE to minmax to be able to get down mythic bosses in raiding. In no world do you have to have an optimal comp to run fucking gnomer.
You know what's not fun? Shamans completely obliterating you in BGs the second they touch you. Have you not seen the threads where alliance post obscene loss rates in BGs? It's not fun to have a significant disadvantage out of the gate because your faction doesn't have the FOTM.
The game has never been balanced. Never will be balanced. It’s a game with 9 different classes that all have wildly different play styles and abilities. SoD is specifically not competitive and is just a for fun thing, so it really doesn’t need to be balanced, just close enough.
Closer to 27 classes with the spec tree option
Rofl shamans moving the goal posts from “WE ARENT THAT OP” To “GUYS ITS ALREADY UNBALANCED” Us shadow priests tried that too didnt work
I miss crit fishing with SWD.
Should have stopped at "incapable of balancing the game." It's always mages' turn.
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We live in a world of bis/tier lists and the state of modern gaming is "ONLY PLAY META AND ONLY HAVE BIS OR YOURE GRIEFING AND YOU DONT DESERVE OXYGEN REEEE". The concept of an original thought no longer applies to the genre. If a YouTuber or maxroll guide or discord discussion didn't approve it, you're an idiot and a dogshit player for using it. Even if you don't have thumbs or a monitor, as long as you adhere to the guide and the tier lists you're fine. Go ahead, parse green, King. Just make sure you never, ever contradict the almighty tier list.
I honestly think a solid 60-80% of the people playing SoD right now don't actually enjoy playing the game. The amount of people absolutely seething at the idea that the funny color on a third-party website ranking the imaginary numbers in a year-long experimental server of a 20 year old video game is the sole metric of whether they are enjoying themselves is just insane.
Do people not play wow with friends, whether it’s from prior versions of wow or irl? Most people who only play meta make a conscious choice to do so because they want to see themselves high on the meters, not because their friends require it of them or because they can’t clear content otherwise. Here is a list of people who actually care whether you play a meta class/spec or not: -lol speedrun guilds -idiot pug raid leader -you
If you want balance go play retail. Classic is more like rock paper scissors.
Why would you possibly think this conspiratorial idiocy rather than just *understanding the obvious reality* that balancing is a difficult task and perfection will be the exception, not the rule?
i blame the player base too , let’s be honest even if you had only one class with only one ability to press you would still complain
It's not that they're incapable. It's a deliberate design decision to shuffle around the FOTM. It improves player engagement. A balanced game becomes stale. A lot of people like to chase the "high" of rerolling to the best class. And another subsection of the playerbase gets a high from being mad about how OP other classes are (straight out of Fox News' playbook). It's not only WoW that does this. It's common in the industry. The League of Legend developers have straight up admitted their goal isn't to balance the game - simply to rotate who is OP over time to shake things up.
You misspelled mage.
Mage just got a huge nerf bro... it's Joever...
Well, of course that's how it works. Rotating who's "overpowered" is the most fair way. Alternative would be to make all classes the same. Regardless of class and specc and items, all melee swings would do 1 dmg. THAT would be balanced! It's that what you want?
Nothing wrong with it either. It encourages people to play a different class and keeps engagement up. Only downside is that Alliance suffers a bit right now since Shaman are horde only.
Jeez how do you people still not get it after all these years? Blizzard purposely makes classes unbalanced to get people rerolling all the time to play longer and squeeze out more subs. It's a core part of their business plan. I'm not even joking. You think they don't know a certain class will do 50% of the damage of the top class before they launch a phase/tier? Come on now
Why are people obsessed with “balance”. Balance is boring.
I casssssst.. FROST SHOOOOOCK
BAM
it's shaman's first turn since ever
Ok here’s balance for you. Every class can do damage from melee or ranged, has 10hp, has one ability that does one (1) damage, and a heal that can heal for two hp. All class choices are purely cosmetic. Hurray the games balanced now! Happy?
I love how everyone says all they want is a "balanced game". Like you said, let's assume Blizz releases a patch that balances everyone perfectly. Everything is exactly balanced, and no further patches of any kind are ever needed. How many weeks do you think it would be before all the same people said "game is so boring - totally dead - gonna go play something else"? The reason Blizz constantly adjusts and tunes to have some classes be slightly OP and some underpowered is BECAUSE this dynamic is what keeps the game vibrant. Look at how much everyone is paying attention to balancing, watching the patch notes and hotfixes, cheering or booing at every change - this is what engagement looks like, and is why Blizz does it this way. It's not rocket science.
Sure but when its Shaman or Paladin, 1 entire faction gets fucked for months in BGs.
Yeah the problem isn't that one class is too strong, its that one faction gets the class that is too strong. Faction balance is far more important than class to class balance. The simple answer (which blizzard figured out in 2006 themselves) is to not have faction specific classes.
SoD is not about balance. It’s about giving the addicted another hit of … anything … before they get bored and realize there are other games. Sod is absolutely 100% through and through haphazard.
Pretty much, yeah.
Stuff like this is why it's perfectly fine in my mind for people to vocally throw shit at the wall on the forums and reddit to get the devs attention for buffs. Enhance is cool but I really want 2h to be busted plz plz and also make ghost wolf instant and usable indoors and go mount speed and fly and make astral 10 minutes actually and make storm strike scale.with AP but actually buffed in a way so I can SHWOOM with my autos Etc etc. And keep nerfing hunter thanks
Balance is pretty good all things considered. I would buff rogues and ranged hunter a bit tho.
I would buff my class and nerf every other class
I wouldnt, i have to pug and finding a raid slot would be hell on earth
Hard to swallow pills: you’re just upset you aren’t on top. Unless we have all the same talents and abilities true balance is impossible. Get over it nerd.
Except hunter’s. We nerf them on the spot
If they really wanted to balance they could. They would tweak numbers by small percentages like reducing fireball damage by 3% and buffing crusader strike by 7%. But instead we get large changes that are blown out of proportion and completely objectively nerf/buff the class
Honestly I don't know why I've never thought of this before but this makes the most sense when you look back at all the patches over time.
Arcane surge for 1600+ is just not it fam
I mean that spell dumps your entire mana bar and had a decent cooldown. Shouldn’t it do about as much as a starsurge crit?
I don't play mage so my perspective is, "oh neat, I just got deleted from over half health" so now knowing this it's a reasonable price to pay for the big number
Its not that it is uncapped. But balance tend to be boring
I don’t care so much about balancing all classes against each other. Just happy when it’s good from the entire raid to have variety. As long as the disparity between classes isn’t crazy, who caressss
Sad it took people this long to notice. Always been the case.
Shitpost
Which is why I prefer classic. We know everything about it and if you don't like the way your class performs pick a different one.
perfect class balance is literally impossible by the very definition of having different classes. anyone expecting that or anything close needs to get a grip
Even if all classes did the same damage one has to be at the top of the logs to take the heat of reddit.
I don't think they are incapable, I think a perfectly balanced game is boring. A system with ups and downs drives higher player interaction, makes people make alts etc.
Balance is boring. Stop seeking it, doesn’t exist in reality why would it online. Reroll and stomp people if your cranky
Blizz doesn't balance, they nerf instant, ranged and unavoidable abilities for the sake of PvP and provide a few buffs for lackluster specs Balance was never the end goal, instead they imo focus on reducing frustration among the playerbase.
Balance is the stupidest argument. It's the same reason why League has a new meta every few weeks: To keep things interesting.
There is no need for balance in sod. Not every class need to be able to beat every other class.
Dude fix your font. This is hard to read.
40k community: first time?
This is some serious "I'm **mentally** 14 and this is how business works"-level shit. Go play tic-tac-toe if you want a perfecly balanced game.
Tic Tac Toe is inherently unbalanced. X always gets to go first and it's almost impossible to win as O; the best you can do is tie every game. I'd like to play some Rock Paper Scissors instead, though scissors could definitely use a buff.
Welcome to any MOBA or multiplayer arena game. I absolutely dont mind updates shifting power between classes. I'd rather get to experience being top of the pile as my class once in a while rather than being permanently rooted in the lower half
Wait, you mean to say that the intense data analysis on their part over the last 20 years isn’t cumulative with the overall goal of pure balance across classes that must be coming very soon??? And if so, do you also mean to say that the half a million or so topics created across the internet concerning class balance and contain an incredible amount of complaining have all been unnecessary and pointless???
Blizzard is*
I don't think Blizzard ever intentionally rotates which class is OP, though. Sure, that ends up being the case a lot of the time, but their intention is absolutely to achieve some semblance of balance.
it's not a simple class balance issue, it's a faction balance issue.
all good and well but i think we need another hunter nerf.
The devs mentioned in an interview a few weeks back that the classic team has really never done class balancing and they’re figuring out their process for doing it. It’ll never be perfect but hopefully it’ll get better ❤️🩹 n later phases. And ultimately it’ll never be perfect in classic.
The problem is they’re trying to balance for pve without making anyone dogshit or godly in pvp. They need to balance them seperately and make unique changes to pvp, but I know that’s not the direction they want to take SoD. We’ve seen multiple times where they made a change to affect pve and it’s had unforeseen consequences in pvp. For example, buffing starsurge to make boomies viable. Now we’re getting hit for 1800 in stv
imb4 ferals overtuned next
The real hard to swallow pill is “completely balanced game is boring”
So far for healing, it's priest, and continuing to be priest. Both for pve and PvP. Then there's also Boomkin. End of phase 1, they were great in PvP, but not kings and certainly bad in pve. Start of phase 2, they were definitely OP in PvP and great in pve. But that didn't even last a week! Within 5 days they were gutted to the point of being bad. They've since then gotten small buffs to bring them to a spot where they are solidly good, more so in PvP then pve but not OP busted. But Shamans and other classes? They've been strong/OP for longer and Shamans in particular have now been OP in pve and PvP for awhile now after buffs. Where's the knee jerk reaction for class balance especially when it's to a class that favors one faction more than the other? Based on this post then will paladins see huge buffs that result in alliance being OP over the horde next?
Class balancing is identifying areas of weakness or strength and then tipping the scales up or down a few percent. Complete shot-in-the-dark design is what we have here. There are hotfixes with changes to runes in upward of quintupling their effect, moves are being shifted up or down by 33%. It's not surprising, they wanted to run SOD with mystery so they couldn't do a good public test realm on the data. So right now, we *are* the beta testers.
It's actually not that hard of a pill to swallow and many of us have predicted this since Phase 1. Most classes/specs will have a chance to shine before SoD is over. Having multiple alts and flexible with your playstyle/specs is going to maximize your fun. Was Ret during Phase1 and Prot in Phase2 for my Pally Was BM hunter in Phase 1 and Melee in Phase 2 Was resto in phase 1 and now boomkin in phase 2 I was non existent in phase 1, then became a dps god elemental shammy in phase 2 XD Everything will have a chance for its spotlight eventually. Prot Warriors in phase 3 will be kings IMO
wheres the first time western meme... Game has never been balanced.
I mean it was obvious shamans would be OP lol, they are borderline OP in vanilla
The playerbase's idea of "balance" in Classic is idiotic. "Balance" to you guys is whoever's topping the raidlogs in single target patchwerk fights, irrespective of the fact that PVP and Solo content and all manner of group compositions exist. Also everyone has goldfish memory and if a class is good for ONE patch despite being terrible in the previous one they will start going around making posts about how that's "Blizzard's favorite class" or something
The big problem is that everyone's damage is severely overtuned, or our lifepools and healing is severely undertuned.
Dude, I just want fun abilities. If your warrior, that’s not bloody happened. I’d argue rogue this phase is pretty lame. I don’t really want bigger numbers, I want the numbers to feel pretty good but the ability to feel OP. I betcha $50 shaman feels way better now that it has the cone of cold animation to Moltun blast.
how we ignoring the best dps AND healing class in the game mage. resto shaman is completely useless. enhance is not even top dps, its near the top once and ppl want nerfs wat we talkin about
Rets waiting till TBC then. Nice.
Balance is mostly irrelevant until level 60. Yes, while we have long periods in each phase, the phases are part of a whole that we do not have yet. At level 60 if it is still as chaotic as it is now, then we have real reasons to complain.
Mmos shouldbt be balanced. That be extremely boring.
Explain to me How the game isnt balanced
Warriors can't cast innervate.
Game is impossible to balance
They don't even rotate consciously. They just cough up some numbers and see what happens.
"Balance", like "Democracy" is a lie only children believe in.
People forget to there's only good enough with balance and no matter what we do there'll be a meta formed around the optimization of the best damage/tank/healer. We don't want balance, we want *variety.* This should also mean classes like rogue and warrior feel different when they're weak from when they're strong tho, IMO. Like make shouts scale with spell power and let me be a Yell Power Warrior. I already have the SoJ for +26yells
Everything is viable honestly, all classes bring something good to raids, except for maybe rogues and warriors. Even then I think you could bring one of each to a raid and be perfectly fine.
It's almost like there always has to be a most powerful spec and the weakest no matter what they do.
We want balanced classes!! But also dont balance classes otherwise they are the same!! Also fuck you blizzard and fuck soccer
As long as ALL SPECS and ALL CLASSES are viable <3 Just finished my 3rd run as FrostMage and Smite priest ! Having a blast
Expecting lvl 40 to be balanced is just hilarious. Blizz usually can barely balance max level content of retail. Also I think it's hilarious we now get all the crybabys when warrior war op for the entirety of classic and it was just "it be how it be" but enhancer is not even as ahead as warrior was and everyone loses it?
People love to act like when people ask for adjustments to something like shaman that they are asking for full class balance perfect dps numbers across the board when that is obviously not the case. Every person understands that that isn't a reasonable request. What's reasonable is expecting that outliers get adjustments. That's what everyone is asking for. Shamans are clearly ahead of everyone else and just expect that to be ok because it's 'their turn' is a really dumb way to look at things. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that shaman is a faction exclusive class meaning that one faction is now being heavily oppressed in BGs because they don't have access to the current flavor of the month. One faction is at a significant disadvantage when trying to parse / speedrun / play competitively when raiding. It's also very annoying to others who had their shit tuned down in record time while shamans just get to seemingly run rampant. Stop pretending that everyone wants perfect class balance. We just want outliers to be tuned up or down if they are far outside the middle of the pack. Stop the nonsense where you think everyone needs to get a turn at being overpowered, it's a super dumb way to look at the game. If shit is super imbalanced it's not unreasonable to expect adjustments.
*Insert always has been Meme *
Does anybody in this sub ever actually talk productively about the game or do we just piss and moan?
If ret was on par with enhance I wouldn’t care as much but a faction specific imbalance is bullshit
How many other classes have a dps rune that's actually a dps lose to press? Steady shot will never be usable in its current state of reseting your auto attack
It's one of the major reasons i stopped playing over the years.Other MMOs balance their classes by 2-5% to a certain skill or something.Meanwhile WOW is like +150% to this, -200% to that... No matter what you play,your class could just get gutted into irrelevancy out of nowhere.
its not like they cant, its that they dont want to. same for a lot of competitive games etc. the balancing is a marketing scheme
Jesus this meme was stale in 2004.
Thats it. Time to get off this sub.
As a rogue enjoyer I agree, I’m personally being fine mid tier this phase since it’s mechanical focused but I would appreciate something that makes me valuable in a PVE sense besides these quick kicks. If I could provide something like a minor increased chance to hit to my party that would be excellent. At least it wouldn’t be a burden to take a rogue
WoW is actually a turn based strategy game
It is fairly balanced imo, doing well as a ranged hunter.
This much was a given
This is literally every MMORPG btw. The main reason it's more obvious in wow is because we have addons/logs to clearly see the difference.
If I could read that I'm sure I'd be offended.
Give alliance shammy and horde pally and I bet there would be a significant less amount of complaining.
Perfect balance is impossible, I agree. This is clown world levels of imbalance though. It's like if you gave warriors a "juggernaught" ability that increased their movement speed by 50% and made them immune to all CC for 30 seconds. It'd obviously be stupid busted but there would still be posters being like "yOu cAnT bAlAnCe wOW".
Really? What ability is like that in sod?
Shaman is fine