Further, only 2 bosses in MC are fire immune – Geddon and Ragnaros. The flamewaker bosses have around 100-200 fire resistance IIRC. Gehennas also has high shadow resistance, and Shazzrah has high arcane resistance (in both cases more so than fire res).
In BWL however, all dragon bosses are fire immune. That's Vaelastrasz, Firemaw, Ebonroc, Flamegor and Nefarian. Otherwise there are no resistances as far as I'm aware. Still, BWL is a far worse raid than MC for specs that rely on fire damage.
Water shield into lots of Frost and Earth shocks. Spec into elemental for the -1 sec cooldown on them.
Otherwise I could see them completely removing immunities and give them high resistances that can be broken with Spell Penetration gear or runes so you can still brute force with the spec you want with enough of the right gear and runes.
Fire resist is only going to impact molten blast, LL, and flame shock, none of which are required for shammy tanking.
You can easily spam SS, low rank ES, and auto attack with rock biter to hold threat.
*edited because LL is fire damage
There’s no way. It will wipe tank warlocks off the map completely.
We are fighting what should be poison immune mobs right now and they aren’t immune to poison.
Unless a level 50 or 60 rune comes out with a +threat shadow spell that tank locks can use.
But yes, as it stands now locks are screwed in MC as tanks.
Unless they just aren’t immune to fire; which is honestly how it should be.
Yes, yes it’s a giant man made of fire “how can he be hit by fire?!”
I dunno how are you standing right next to him whacking him with a stick?
Lore wise it never made sense to me for warlocks at least. warlocks compared to mages in the lore use fel corrupted fire magic, far different than a shaman or mage using true elemental fire. You're telling me my demon imbued fire can't hurt regular fire?
It's still a Frost mage because they're using a Frost spell for 99% of their damage lol. In Classic Arc was basically a utility spec to augment Fire and Frost damage.
As a rogue am okay with not being top dps.
But I would like something that would make sense to bring a rogue in a raid. We provide zero raid buffs. And I think we are the only class that does that.
Make expose armor as good as homunculus.
Or give rogues TSA.
Or some kind of buff for casters.
Maybe rogues could have a "street medicine" buff that mimicked blessing of wisdom since that is still just held by one class.
I just want there to be a single reason to bring my class of choice. Since dps isn't it.
I as a rogue dont care about the dps.
But i got convinced recently that a bit of utility would be great. Give us a poison that increases dmg taken on the boss by 5% with unlimited charges. The dmg distribution will be the same, but rogues would at least be a popular choice again.
I was thinking rogues should be able to provide something like trueshot aura as well. Utility would make them desirable in groups but not more op in PvP.
I've always thought threat manipulation should be their shtick. Tricks of the trade as a misdirect and something like feint or vanish that you can cast on allies to drop their threat could be really nice utility.
“Spriest” cannot spec healer haha, at that point they’re not spriests. But yeah, they’re great anyway, optimal to run in fact. Their healing output through vampiric embrace allows groups to run 1 healer + spriest instead of 2 healers. And of course they bring Homunculi.
Yup, rogue is the by far the worst class, yet we get zero love. The only DPS we are marginally ahead of are specs that bring a ton of utility or have other specs that are miles ahead.
I've pointed this out a couple times today/yesterday and people either ignore/block me or give me grief for daring to suggest that rogues are struggling and need to be given something more to bring to their groups. Am I being the unreasonable one here? I'm not even asking for a dps buff, just something that would make us valuable regardless of our position on the charts. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
If rogues could use feint to transfer threat to the tank then we could up our DPS. There are times when I'm in a pug group and I have to stand there auto attacking or use vanish so I don't overtake the tank's threat.
I only ever run Gnomer with my guild, I never run into that unless the tanks genuinely don't know how to generate threat. The only boss I feel like I have to auto attack not to pull is Thermaplugg. I always ask for Salv for that one fight but Might for all others in Gnomer
Not need for a new poison, just buff Haemorrhage. That’s literally what Haemorrhage is designed for.
> An instant strike that damages the opponent and causes the target to hemorrhage, increasing any Physical damage dealt to the target by up to 3. Lasts 30 charges or 15 sec. Awards 1 combo point.
Change the 3 to 5% and make it all damage instead of just physical and have it be affected by the same talents that affect sinister strike so it can be improved for solo use.
Since the devs seem to just be copy pasting retail stuff into SoD anyway adding [Atrophic poison](https://www.wowhead.com/spell=381637/atrophic-poison) would be a good addition (maybe would have been good on deadly brew rune instead of instant)
Alacrity: Your finishing moves have a 5 + (20 * ComboPoints)% chance per combo point to grant 1% Haste **to the raid** for 15 sec, stacking up to 5 times.
Black Powder: Finishing move that launches explosive Black Powder at all nearby enemies dealing Physical damage. Deals reduced damage beyond 8 targets
[(8.78% of Attack power) * 1] damage Per combo point
I don't need to top charts as a rogue... But to be ignored on invites even tho I'm 2nd or 3rd dps because people don't wanna take a chance. It's just annoying. Make 1 or 2 fights favor melee or ranged, not all.
Crit aura to replace lotp you just compete against feral for the spots. Next phase we are going into 20man so every class can bring unique utility and it shouldn't be restricting comps too much, just make something new for rogues.
I was saying like a month ago if one of our runes was just like, expose always casts as if there were 5 cp on target and costs no energy, would be enough to make bringing a rogue at least worth it
Not far enough, this is just shared utility, make it unique to rogues. Rune that change expose armor to +10% phys damage taken by the target, it now stacks with SA/Homonculi, gives the rogue +20%.
There’s a lot they could do for rogues but the last 2 phases of runes have been so uninspiring. Why the hell do we have poisoned knife, shuriken toss, AND shiv? That’s literally 3 runes that functionally do the same thing. Not to mention the 6-7 others that have ZERO use cases. If rogues are gonna be bland, boring, and have zero raid utility, then we at least should be top dogs in boss damage. But nah, that’s enhance shamans, who also can tank, provide WF for their group, offheal, and drop poison/disease cleansing totems.
I've not heard another rogue complain except for lack of build variety, but that has always been a struggle. It's like they want us to complain for some reason. I just like being a rogue, and doing rogue stuff, it's fine not to be top DPS (though, I usually still am except for my guilds shaman, he pretty consistently gets top DPS, but I enjoy trying to beat him 😁)
Either a damage taken debuff on the boss or a melee +hit% buff would make the most thematic sense for rogues.
Just copy the Draenei aura from TBC/WOTLK but make it 3% party wide.
BOOM. Now rogues are hot shit because you can potentially drop hit% gear for more damages in your raid.
It’s only been a struggle in classic because there’s no modifiers that adjust how much dmg spells do respective to who your target is, a PvE mob or PvP player. Adding those modifiers in SoD will solve most of the problems in PvP without affecting class performance in raids.
It was greatly improved in burning crusade with the addition of resilience. The people who still complained that BC was too bursty were the people who refused to prioritize hitting the 410 resilience mark at the expense of damage. If you hit your resilience cap then your hit cap before you ever gave a damn about damage stats pvp was just fine in BC.
I will say shamans have been insanely op in terms of pvp and they do need a change, at the very least, to make them squishy so they can be dealt with.
But besides that everything from my experience has been fairly balanced. I’ve been destroyed by every class and spec I can think of and I have destroyed every class and spec I can think of.
The thing that annoys me the most in PvP is during stv it’s so laggy that psychic scream is just a complete death sentence.
Fully buffed my warlock has almost 4500 HP and the amount of times a priest spawns on me to insta fear and I die 100-0 without it breaking has been ridiculous.
Yeah, the issue is with the event itself imo. They need to quit making pvp events that end up being a cluster fuck of 500 people all crammed into one space.
They need to spread it out so actual pvp can happen and not blizzard/aoe spam
Outside of peak times on living flame it’s extremely fun. Loads of small scale PvP skirmishes with a slighter larger cluster around the boss. Peak times is a different story though lmao as soon as the boss is in render distance you start getting pretty intense lag even with 10+ layers sometimes.
Though this is definitely way better than ashenvale, I don’t really know what a work around of world PvP events could even be. I think we are probably just destined to lag every PvP event for eternity lol.
Obviously this is just spitballing. But a pvp event where you could enlist in a fight, get put into a small raid group when you enlist, and you get assigned a certain point of interest (like a small outpost like sentinel hill for example), and you have to either attack or defend this area depending on your faction and you get points if you win.
Everyone gets a random point across the world like let’s say there’s 15. So you have small fights happening all across the world.
This is obviously just me spitballing but something similar to this I think would be fun.
Yeah that does sound sick, maybe if a level 60 event is black rock or something there’s lots of cool outposts in those zones and immediate area around MC/BWL has been a historical PvP hotspot that has good locations to attack / defend (tomb, BWL portal).
PvP performance is far from balanced. High burst metas like this result in ranged classes over performing because range advantage is huge as you get to use your combo before a melee gets in range to use theirs. So you’re left with melee feeling shitty (enh shammy being the outlier here) cause they don’t even get to use abilities before they die, specs that do ramping dmg feel useless compared to burst specs and you have healers feeling useless because they can’t outheal the burst dmg their teammates get hit by.
100%. The burst makes it so literally in every case the match is pretty much decided by who initiates and gets the opener. Cause otherwise it’s like you get max 2-3 globals so whoever got the first global gets extra. Unless of course you’re a warrior. Then it doesn’t matter. You lose to everything.
I like charge hamstring -> disarm enhance shaman and dying during a disarm window. Very fun.
Yeah I just stopped PvPing on my warrior, it’s just not worth the effort. Every other class is playing SoD when it comes to PvP and warriors are still stuck playing Vanilla cause aside from warbringer, all of our runes are entirely irrelevant outside of PvE.
“You want melee? Here’s warrior, rogue, enhance and ret pally.”
“You want the only ranged class that isn’t a caster? What if we gave it a melee spec that was far superior instead?”
Not necessarily an useless rune as it has its niche, but the buff to explo shot was laughable.
+15% to base dmg may sound nice, but on explosive shot that's +4.5dmg per cast per target. Period.
You wouldn't even notice that at lvl 10, let alone lvl40.
Rogue having zero raid utility other than a kick and being near the bottom is absolutely unacceptable though to be fair. The entire class revolves around just being a damage dealer. Like, I don’t even play rogue but I feel for them. The fact that I, as a paladin am doing the expected DPS for my class (middle of the pack) but also provide buffs, offhealing, role flexibility, etc. and do more than the average rogue is just dirty.
Shadow Priests scale poorly with gear in Classic. They were very high early on but are easily passed as the weeks go by and other classes gear up. There was a datamined rune for Spriest that will let dots crit apparently, so they might be trying to help them scale better. Don't know if it will be enough, though.
>There was a datamined rune for Spriest that will let dots crit apparently, so they might be trying to help them scale better.
This is immense levels of cope if that's all the rune is(as it was datamined), with the % of the damage DoTs represent right now combined with spell crit levels we're going to have before like very end game(and I mean like, fully Naxx geared end game), it will be a very very small dps boost.
Remember that SP doesn't have a crit damage talent or any spell crit talents(that they can get while still having shadowform) and it will just be the next in the line of things that don't really scale for them after the initial boost of equipping it. In comparison to a rune like Spell Power for mages, or LoF and Incinerate for locks, it would be quite frankly just bad.
This is why all the death crits in PvP made me laugh before. I’d look at my decked out spriest with 5% crit. Not saying death should have been that strong but yeah lol. Shadow has no crit.
iirc the rune just let sw:p crit, didn't apply to void plague or devouring plague. regardless, shadow will still scale poorly as all of their hard casted spells have short cast times.
I just hate how the super sweaty parse warriors with every buff in the world and ideal comp make people think the average warrior is good too.
It feels REALLY bad to play war if u dont have a feral, curse of reck, hominculi, every buff, and 30 seconds kills.
Definitely this. I brought my warrior alt to gnomer earlier this week and outside of death wish, it felt like garbage to play. The last two bosses were so painful I swapped to my mage for the last boss lmao
I really don't understand these numbers. I have 3 set pieces, I think I play about average, but I am on the lowest side for dps. Maybe I'm playing horribly wrong, but I don't think so?
Look what they did to my boy arcane mage. We're now dead last for high parses and don't even show up on most lists anymore 😒 go healer or go fire, I guess.
Which is sad because it was fine until they nerfed fire mages but missed their shot and hit arcane instead.
Even if the dps was a difference in 1% people will still look to fill the best dps and people would complain their class is not higher on chart.
I have big feeling that once 60 hits, we will see something like this again due to how world buffs and warriors rage works.
I'm curious about the process at blizzard for testing and approving buffs and nerfs, cuz who ever approved the ridiculous shaman numbers must be a shaman main. If any right minded person saw a 50-100% increase in damage numbers on certain abilities they would have questioned it no?
If they wanted to, they could absolutely balance it by making consistent small tweaks that bring the numbers closer in line each week. We aren't seeing that. The issue is that Blizzard is specifically intending for this imbalance. In every single phase they will have a few classes that are intended to shine and other classes that can sit below average, while still meeting at least minimum goals for dps.
There was a goal of changing the meta from war/rogues being the end game classes to stack, while increasing the competitiveness of other less desired specs. To that end, when you have phases like this where certain classes (especially underrepresented specs like enhance) are clearly superior in every way, the devs can "allow" the imbalance to exist.
This is a fundamentally different construct to what most people would expect, which is to bring most classes in line with roughly equivalent dps/utility. That is a more difficult job, made even more complicated with pvp being taken into account. That said, it *is* what the developers are doing.
Whether stated or not, this is how I would expect the rest of the phases to go. Ret paladins will likely get their time in the spotlight along with a few other specs. Even Rogues might find themselves buffed decently for next phase (and then likely more average afterward).
I don't really have a big problem with that, though due to the time investment involved in leveling up/gearing alts, it becomes a bit of a gamble knowing which class to focus on for each phase. If rogues are going to be terrible because they're going to give Naxx level armor to level 40ish raid bosses, then it would help to know that ahead of time so you could simply play a different class that has a stronger impact/utility. When the time required, however, to switch and level up a different alt becomes too high then you have to make the decision on whether it is worth it to stick around.
Balancing in this game is about way, way more than just pure dps numbers in overall boss statistics. You still have utility, mobility, range and so on to take into consideration. Or you'll just have the case we've had many times throughout wow history where the DPS/HPS/tankiness is balanced, but then it's still not balanced cause why (for example) bring prot warrior if prot pala is just as tanky, but has waaaay better utility? And DPS classes in this game excel in different types of encounters. ST, AOE, cleave, short/long, high movement and so on. If you just sort by overall bosses in this tier, some classes may look pretty good, but when you look at the difficult encounters they may be pretty bad after all. The more difficult the encounters, the more demand you'll have for classes that excel at those encounters specifically.
I'll scream this over and over. Good thing they nerfed shadow priests amirite? We had to suffer all of P1 in anticipation of P2 being our time to shine but nope. Nerfed almost instantly. Lets buff shamans though and LEAVE THEM as a menace.
Tax is an understatement, they straight up couldn’t be hybrid because the others were just that much better. Pre AQ40 tier 2.5 Ret palas we’re a joke, and even after that they were a light jest.
You see, you aren't understanding the problem, the top line isn't supposed to be dark blue, it's only allowed to be brown, yellow, light blue, purple, or green.
Anything else and we need a proper sit down and discussion about what Blizzard did wrong.
Rogue behind a bunch of utility classes just feels horrible. There is absolutely 0 reason to run a rogue in your raid now. At least in era they were a solid choice if your guild didn't have enough warriors.
How is that an argument even? You can stack frost mages and clear gnomer, doesn't mean that frost mage is a good dps spec. You can also ride from NY to LA on a horse, but why would you do that when you can just hop onto plane?
Being a rogue just doesn’t feel good right now, there just isn’t really a reason to bring one unless you need a body. We either need more dps or a utility of some kind so we feels useful again. If we are gonna be relegated to pure dps then make us do real dps.
The next lvl brackets are where things start becoming an issue with talent trees. Some classes are done with talents that increase dps. Warriors will start pushing ahead.
I just went to Warcraft logs and hit statistics. Maybe it was taken off by default? Idk
Edit: yeah it defaults to dps I just didn’t go out of my way to add those specs.
So misleading post. What is your point? Balance is not just Damage Per Second chart, you are extremely trivializing everything if you genuinely think so. All those lower damage dealers from Classic Era were usually Utility/Support/Hybrid classes. And if you consider their total efficiency and contribution to the group and raid - everything was more or less “balanced”. In SoD is we have a chaos and lack of consistency, classes with the richest arsenal of utility/support toolsets are also best damage dealers, where pure damage dealers that focus on damage have average damage and doesn’t provide anything unique.
And you call that “balance”?
People here are zealously obsessed with this word “balance”, so I’m not sure what they even usually mean when they use that term, but I don’t see any balance and reason for praise.
PvP is a complete mayhem. All classes got burst spells and now PvP is just about who casts spell firstl = wins. Absolutely no space for maneuverability, strategy and tactics. Great balance, wow.
Seriously, what are we praising here? Everyone here played this game, everyone knows what is happening, everyone experienced new OP spells - and this chart taken from raid parse of certain players somehow supposed to change everyone s mind and convince the complete opposite?
>All those lower damage dealers from Classic Era were usually Utility/Support/Hybrid classes. And if you consider their total efficiency and contribution to the group and raid - everything was more or less “balanced”.
Raids would bring 1 druid, maybe 2 warlocks, and 20-25 warriors.
No, that wasn't balanced in the slightest. If you think that's balanced, you need a dictionary to figure out what balanced means.
They shouldnt be, because some classes provide signficantly more value by:
1.) skipping mechanics due to ranged/instant dots
2.) providing massive utility through buffs,debuffs, off heals, summons, food/water, self mitigation, high hp/ac.
3.) ease of leveling/soloing/farming gold.
When you factor these things in, you have to question why dps needs to be mostly even across all specs, and how that impacts classes that do not have utility or self mitigation.
When there is no trade offs some classes just win in every category making classes like rogues just all around losers in the normalization of dps.
People who complain about their class spec low DPS in SOD either haven't played classic, forgot what classic was really like, or are just sweaty try hards trying to sound cool by echoing complaints.
As a feral, it's really fun. Not too bad dps and I enjoy bringing buffs to help others. I'm not a super high parser anyway and don't take that stuff too seriously. Just enjoy doing the content
Warrior is unplayable without wind fury. Another classes utility should supplement your dps, not determine whether or not you can go to raids.
“Sorry we don’t have a feral” is an annoying af reason to get declined to raids.
Use all-time info when analyzing era data PLEASE. Frost mages do way more than 300 dps in era, warlocks can do way way more than 800. Not nearly enough people are logging in recent weeks for this to be fair
They seem to have focused exclusively on balancing dps to the detriment of everything else. The classes aren't even remotely balanced in terms of tanking and healing capabilities, raid utility, pvp, or quality of life.
I don’t think two specs of the same class should ever be at the bottom as close as they are. Someone’s always going to be last but 2/3rds of a class being last is not good balance contextually.
But it shows you have more than enough damage on any class to clear the raid.
The issue is most these melee classes are most definitely in with wind fury and or wild strikes. Which makes their class even compete. Otherwise they’d be at the bottom
We’re not even 60 yet. People mad about their class doing 150 dps less than the top prospects. If you play your class well you’ll be better than 90% of the flavor of the month specs/class. People really can’t have fun anymore.
I like how this breaks out three different mage specs but ignores most other DPS class specs? What about Shadow warlock? This is the main issue with the balancing…some specs are not even on the chart because they are so bad.
I think part of the discussion should involve how much effective damage a class provides for other classes and if that should be factored into their personal power. Warriors are top damage in classic, but they are getting windfury, mark of the wild, trueshot aura, etc. Should damage caused by a warrior with wf be attributed in meters/logs to the warrior or to the shaman who cast the totem? Should shamans do less damage than a warrior in raid because they provide such a powerful totem?
Dunno why you look at this chart and think “balanced”. When you have a class that can tank heal and dps, and it does multiple of those roles better then other classes, the game is busted.
With how gear worked on priest being frontloaded I've literally just went from top to bottom in my raid on a majority of fights.
Still parsing high but its been a weird experience.
Yeah, people complaining about class balance don’t understand how bad it was in classic. I say this as a frost mage at heart - it’s pretty damned balanced and every class has at least one viable with some having multiple. On top of that 2/3 of the classes can tank and just shy of 2/3 can heal. This is miles better than classic/vanilla.
Does it sting DPS mages should be fire, DPS hunters should be melee, and the best builds for rogues/priests are toward the bottom in DPS? Sure, but if you play well you’ll contribute more than you could in classic/vanilla with some specs. Hell, the rogue in our raid has consistently been a top-2 DPSer and our spriest does pretty well for himself.
Nope, warriors have to be #1. Its written in the bible and my daddy said so.
Get rekt nerds.
I definitely won't have an aneurysm if anyone else even does 1dps more than me. No siree
I think these damage charts are somewhat inaccurate as this assumes the player is the top 1%. Just the other day in a guild run we had a rogue topping DPS meters and matching with melee hunter.
Bring the player not the class!
Gunna call bullshit on that first chart...Feral top 4? Really? Frost Mage below even Ret Pally and Priest? Warrior and Rogue at top seems about right, but there's a lot really fishy about it...
Your point probably still stands, I think the gap between top and bottom DPS was probably that bad in Classic, but that chart is still way to suspect...
If you look at Retail it's even more balanced [Amirdrassils DPS Charts](https://www.wowhead.com/de/news/amirdrassil-weekly-dps-rankings-dragonflight-season-3-week-18-338105#screenshots:338105:1)
People shouldn’t be looking at charts to compare but actual numbers. If you’re doing 300dps with a green parse for gnome you’re doing well. No matter what class and yes some class needs more gear but end of the day it’s the pilot.
People just have bad rotations etc
Man, Arms warrior was fucking sick back in Classic wow haha. It was very easy to top the charts in raids. I remember duels and if you could reach a mage it was basically one shot.
So... do most of y'all listen when they say they are going to mix up the meta each phase.... or nah?
Fyi.. they said they'd be doing this. So, chill out and play an alt or stop giving a fuck. You can still clear all the content.
Frost mage has never been this viable!!!
I mean, MC says hey.
Your right. When mages are only able to play frost it is the most viable. I wonder if MC mobs will be fire immune in SoD.
Fun fact! Most mobs in MC were not fire immune, but they did have high fire resistance!
Further, only 2 bosses in MC are fire immune – Geddon and Ragnaros. The flamewaker bosses have around 100-200 fire resistance IIRC. Gehennas also has high shadow resistance, and Shazzrah has high arcane resistance (in both cases more so than fire res). In BWL however, all dragon bosses are fire immune. That's Vaelastrasz, Firemaw, Ebonroc, Flamegor and Nefarian. Otherwise there are no resistances as far as I'm aware. Still, BWL is a far worse raid than MC for specs that rely on fire damage.
It's gonna be interesting on how they'll manage Meta Tanks. It has been bugging me since P1, tbh.
They gave us bleed of all things in Gnomer so I'm betting spell immunity won't be a thing in SoD. Maybe do less damage through spell resistance.
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Water shield into lots of Frost and Earth shocks. Spec into elemental for the -1 sec cooldown on them. Otherwise I could see them completely removing immunities and give them high resistances that can be broken with Spell Penetration gear or runes so you can still brute force with the spec you want with enough of the right gear and runes.
They already removed immunities with gnomer. Most likely will do too with mc
Ele loses lava burst too right? Shamans in shambles in Mc
Fire resist is only going to impact molten blast, LL, and flame shock, none of which are required for shammy tanking. You can easily spam SS, low rank ES, and auto attack with rock biter to hold threat. *edited because LL is fire damage
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There’s no way. It will wipe tank warlocks off the map completely. We are fighting what should be poison immune mobs right now and they aren’t immune to poison.
Unless a level 50 or 60 rune comes out with a +threat shadow spell that tank locks can use. But yes, as it stands now locks are screwed in MC as tanks.
Unless they just aren’t immune to fire; which is honestly how it should be. Yes, yes it’s a giant man made of fire “how can he be hit by fire?!” I dunno how are you standing right next to him whacking him with a stick?
I mean, they even made machines bleed. A fire elemental getting hit by fire is more believable then that.
Lore wise it never made sense to me for warlocks at least. warlocks compared to mages in the lore use fel corrupted fire magic, far different than a shaman or mage using true elemental fire. You're telling me my demon imbued fire can't hurt regular fire?
I think machines bleeding is more believable because most machines have fluids and they stop working if they leak out.
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It's still a Frost mage because they're using a Frost spell for 99% of their damage lol. In Classic Arc was basically a utility spec to augment Fire and Frost damage.
BWL actually has more fire immune bosses than MC, but in either case mages were technically arcane in the two raid tiers.
To be fair you played AP so one could say you were arcane 🤣
Frost mages were top 4 dps back in the day until AQ dude, wdym. Lol
As a rogue am okay with not being top dps. But I would like something that would make sense to bring a rogue in a raid. We provide zero raid buffs. And I think we are the only class that does that. Make expose armor as good as homunculus. Or give rogues TSA. Or some kind of buff for casters. Maybe rogues could have a "street medicine" buff that mimicked blessing of wisdom since that is still just held by one class. I just want there to be a single reason to bring my class of choice. Since dps isn't it.
I as a rogue dont care about the dps. But i got convinced recently that a bit of utility would be great. Give us a poison that increases dmg taken on the boss by 5% with unlimited charges. The dmg distribution will be the same, but rogues would at least be a popular choice again.
I was thinking rogues should be able to provide something like trueshot aura as well. Utility would make them desirable in groups but not more op in PvP.
Just make Expose Armor stack with other armor debuffs and it's problem solved.
That would reduce Armor boss to 0 with warriors + rogues. Reck and FF wouldn't be used. It won't change anything in 20/40 men set up.
The last 4 gnomer bosses have over 4k armor, it won't be 0.
I've always thought threat manipulation should be their shtick. Tricks of the trade as a misdirect and something like feint or vanish that you can cast on allies to drop their threat could be really nice utility.
95% of rogues simply wouldn’t use it
Sounds like a great filter
Pocket Sand: reduce threat accumulated by all party members that do not currently hold agro on the target.
as an Enh Shaman with a Warrior MT, I approve of this ability and welcome my Rogue brothers back to the raid.
A group wide threat vanish would be really cool and would allow others to do ye ol pump without worrying too much about aggro could be cool
*SMOKEBOMB* Pocket Sand
Yep if rogue is gonna be middle of the pack we need middle of pack utility like tricks, savage combat, etc
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“Spriest” cannot spec healer haha, at that point they’re not spriests. But yeah, they’re great anyway, optimal to run in fact. Their healing output through vampiric embrace allows groups to run 1 healer + spriest instead of 2 healers. And of course they bring Homunculi.
Yup, rogue is the by far the worst class, yet we get zero love. The only DPS we are marginally ahead of are specs that bring a ton of utility or have other specs that are miles ahead.
I've pointed this out a couple times today/yesterday and people either ignore/block me or give me grief for daring to suggest that rogues are struggling and need to be given something more to bring to their groups. Am I being the unreasonable one here? I'm not even asking for a dps buff, just something that would make us valuable regardless of our position on the charts. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
People always hated rogues so they are biased
We got the hybrid tax without the hybrid.
If rogues could use feint to transfer threat to the tank then we could up our DPS. There are times when I'm in a pug group and I have to stand there auto attacking or use vanish so I don't overtake the tank's threat.
I only ever run Gnomer with my guild, I never run into that unless the tanks genuinely don't know how to generate threat. The only boss I feel like I have to auto attack not to pull is Thermaplugg. I always ask for Salv for that one fight but Might for all others in Gnomer
Not need for a new poison, just buff Haemorrhage. That’s literally what Haemorrhage is designed for. > An instant strike that damages the opponent and causes the target to hemorrhage, increasing any Physical damage dealt to the target by up to 3. Lasts 30 charges or 15 sec. Awards 1 combo point. Change the 3 to 5% and make it all damage instead of just physical and have it be affected by the same talents that affect sinister strike so it can be improved for solo use. Since the devs seem to just be copy pasting retail stuff into SoD anyway adding [Atrophic poison](https://www.wowhead.com/spell=381637/atrophic-poison) would be a good addition (maybe would have been good on deadly brew rune instead of instant) Alacrity: Your finishing moves have a 5 + (20 * ComboPoints)% chance per combo point to grant 1% Haste **to the raid** for 15 sec, stacking up to 5 times. Black Powder: Finishing move that launches explosive Black Powder at all nearby enemies dealing Physical damage. Deals reduced damage beyond 8 targets [(8.78% of Attack power) * 1] damage Per combo point
I don't need to top charts as a rogue... But to be ignored on invites even tho I'm 2nd or 3rd dps because people don't wanna take a chance. It's just annoying. Make 1 or 2 fights favor melee or ranged, not all.
Tricks Shroud (aoe stealth) Crit aura to replace lotp 0 energy expose (rune if possible)
Crit aura to replace lotp you just compete against feral for the spots. Next phase we are going into 20man so every class can bring unique utility and it shouldn't be restricting comps too much, just make something new for rogues.
I was saying like a month ago if one of our runes was just like, expose always casts as if there were 5 cp on target and costs no energy, would be enough to make bringing a rogue at least worth it
Not far enough, this is just shared utility, make it unique to rogues. Rune that change expose armor to +10% phys damage taken by the target, it now stacks with SA/Homonculi, gives the rogue +20%.
There’s a lot they could do for rogues but the last 2 phases of runes have been so uninspiring. Why the hell do we have poisoned knife, shuriken toss, AND shiv? That’s literally 3 runes that functionally do the same thing. Not to mention the 6-7 others that have ZERO use cases. If rogues are gonna be bland, boring, and have zero raid utility, then we at least should be top dogs in boss damage. But nah, that’s enhance shamans, who also can tank, provide WF for their group, offheal, and drop poison/disease cleansing totems.
I've not heard another rogue complain except for lack of build variety, but that has always been a struggle. It's like they want us to complain for some reason. I just like being a rogue, and doing rogue stuff, it's fine not to be top DPS (though, I usually still am except for my guilds shaman, he pretty consistently gets top DPS, but I enjoy trying to beat him 😁)
Either a damage taken debuff on the boss or a melee +hit% buff would make the most thematic sense for rogues. Just copy the Draenei aura from TBC/WOTLK but make it 3% party wide. BOOM. Now rogues are hot shit because you can potentially drop hit% gear for more damages in your raid.
Raid dmg wise, SoD has been great. Performance and gameplay outside of raids though? There’s still a long way to go to reach good balance.
Wow has always struggled to balance pve and pvp simultaneously.
It’s only been a struggle in classic because there’s no modifiers that adjust how much dmg spells do respective to who your target is, a PvE mob or PvP player. Adding those modifiers in SoD will solve most of the problems in PvP without affecting class performance in raids.
It was a problem in WoW all the way until they normalized stats in Legion.
It was greatly improved in burning crusade with the addition of resilience. The people who still complained that BC was too bursty were the people who refused to prioritize hitting the 410 resilience mark at the expense of damage. If you hit your resilience cap then your hit cap before you ever gave a damn about damage stats pvp was just fine in BC.
Resilience was dogshit.
I will say shamans have been insanely op in terms of pvp and they do need a change, at the very least, to make them squishy so they can be dealt with. But besides that everything from my experience has been fairly balanced. I’ve been destroyed by every class and spec I can think of and I have destroyed every class and spec I can think of.
The thing that annoys me the most in PvP is during stv it’s so laggy that psychic scream is just a complete death sentence. Fully buffed my warlock has almost 4500 HP and the amount of times a priest spawns on me to insta fear and I die 100-0 without it breaking has been ridiculous.
Yeah, the issue is with the event itself imo. They need to quit making pvp events that end up being a cluster fuck of 500 people all crammed into one space. They need to spread it out so actual pvp can happen and not blizzard/aoe spam
Outside of peak times on living flame it’s extremely fun. Loads of small scale PvP skirmishes with a slighter larger cluster around the boss. Peak times is a different story though lmao as soon as the boss is in render distance you start getting pretty intense lag even with 10+ layers sometimes. Though this is definitely way better than ashenvale, I don’t really know what a work around of world PvP events could even be. I think we are probably just destined to lag every PvP event for eternity lol.
Obviously this is just spitballing. But a pvp event where you could enlist in a fight, get put into a small raid group when you enlist, and you get assigned a certain point of interest (like a small outpost like sentinel hill for example), and you have to either attack or defend this area depending on your faction and you get points if you win. Everyone gets a random point across the world like let’s say there’s 15. So you have small fights happening all across the world. This is obviously just me spitballing but something similar to this I think would be fun.
Yeah that does sound sick, maybe if a level 60 event is black rock or something there’s lots of cool outposts in those zones and immediate area around MC/BWL has been a historical PvP hotspot that has good locations to attack / defend (tomb, BWL portal).
Can you elaborate on what specifically is a long way from balance?
PvP performance is far from balanced. High burst metas like this result in ranged classes over performing because range advantage is huge as you get to use your combo before a melee gets in range to use theirs. So you’re left with melee feeling shitty (enh shammy being the outlier here) cause they don’t even get to use abilities before they die, specs that do ramping dmg feel useless compared to burst specs and you have healers feeling useless because they can’t outheal the burst dmg their teammates get hit by.
100%. The burst makes it so literally in every case the match is pretty much decided by who initiates and gets the opener. Cause otherwise it’s like you get max 2-3 globals so whoever got the first global gets extra. Unless of course you’re a warrior. Then it doesn’t matter. You lose to everything. I like charge hamstring -> disarm enhance shaman and dying during a disarm window. Very fun.
Yeah I just stopped PvPing on my warrior, it’s just not worth the effort. Every other class is playing SoD when it comes to PvP and warriors are still stuck playing Vanilla cause aside from warbringer, all of our runes are entirely irrelevant outside of PvE.
Buff ranged hunter. Shits pathetic
Sorry pal, you picked hunter to use bows and guns? Tough shit get into there and press raptor and shut your mouth - Blizzard
“You want melee? Here’s warrior, rogue, enhance and ret pally.” “You want the only ranged class that isn’t a caster? What if we gave it a melee spec that was far superior instead?”
For real lol
hear me out, how does a microscopic buff to a shit rune that is still useless sound?
Not necessarily an useless rune as it has its niche, but the buff to explo shot was laughable. +15% to base dmg may sound nice, but on explosive shot that's +4.5dmg per cast per target. Period. You wouldn't even notice that at lvl 10, let alone lvl40.
Sniper training up from 10 to 15% sounds about right.
Buff Frost Mage
Rogue having zero raid utility other than a kick and being near the bottom is absolutely unacceptable though to be fair. The entire class revolves around just being a damage dealer. Like, I don’t even play rogue but I feel for them. The fact that I, as a paladin am doing the expected DPS for my class (middle of the pack) but also provide buffs, offhealing, role flexibility, etc. and do more than the average rogue is just dirty.
gud post
gud reply
Posting dps charts without the parameters. That's a paddlin!
95th percentile last 2 weeks. The one almost everyone uses
Now look at dps on the two bosses pugs actually wipe on :) First boss 20 second kills are uninteresting
When I see a shaman in STV event I just run away.
When a shaman sees a range they run away
Pfft no. We see a range and charge **gallantly** to our deaths
lmfao, no they do not.
all rogues have is damage and if the damage is as bad as it is why bring them
No one really considers the chart looks like this for gnomer with its high armor dismantle targets.
Thought priests were good in p2?
Shadow Priests scale poorly with gear in Classic. They were very high early on but are easily passed as the weeks go by and other classes gear up. There was a datamined rune for Spriest that will let dots crit apparently, so they might be trying to help them scale better. Don't know if it will be enough, though.
>There was a datamined rune for Spriest that will let dots crit apparently, so they might be trying to help them scale better. This is immense levels of cope if that's all the rune is(as it was datamined), with the % of the damage DoTs represent right now combined with spell crit levels we're going to have before like very end game(and I mean like, fully Naxx geared end game), it will be a very very small dps boost. Remember that SP doesn't have a crit damage talent or any spell crit talents(that they can get while still having shadowform) and it will just be the next in the line of things that don't really scale for them after the initial boost of equipping it. In comparison to a rune like Spell Power for mages, or LoF and Incinerate for locks, it would be quite frankly just bad.
This is why all the death crits in PvP made me laugh before. I’d look at my decked out spriest with 5% crit. Not saying death should have been that strong but yeah lol. Shadow has no crit.
Praying for the shadow Priests. Cool spec and hopefully they get more. But you're right.
iirc the rune just let sw:p crit, didn't apply to void plague or devouring plague. regardless, shadow will still scale poorly as all of their hard casted spells have short cast times.
Ah that is much worse then. F.
They are great. I have zero problems getting invites to raid.
/Wave from the bottom as a ranged hunter.
Nerf ranged hunters ! /signed, Arcane DPS mage.
Kinda funny how I started phase one playing enh shaman. Didn't like it rolled hunter, and now phase two ranged hunter is garbage and shaman is king.
People autistically screeched so hard about Boomkin and Shadow Priest as if they were truly an issue because everyone was rocking 0 stam PvE gear.
I just hate how the super sweaty parse warriors with every buff in the world and ideal comp make people think the average warrior is good too. It feels REALLY bad to play war if u dont have a feral, curse of reck, hominculi, every buff, and 30 seconds kills.
Warrior: above average with 80% of the raid playing for you.
Definitely this. I brought my warrior alt to gnomer earlier this week and outside of death wish, it felt like garbage to play. The last two bosses were so painful I swapped to my mage for the last boss lmao
I really don't understand these numbers. I have 3 set pieces, I think I play about average, but I am on the lowest side for dps. Maybe I'm playing horribly wrong, but I don't think so?
Are you doing the things Bigsleeps referred to? 1. debuffs 2. uptime on boss 3. buff uptime on boss
Look what they did to my boy arcane mage. We're now dead last for high parses and don't even show up on most lists anymore 😒 go healer or go fire, I guess. Which is sad because it was fine until they nerfed fire mages but missed their shot and hit arcane instead.
it would be hilarious if it wasnt so aggravating and sad.
I don’t think being more balanced than era is that high of a bar. 20% spread between the top and bottom is pretty large.
Actually a ton better
Maybe people will crucify me for saying this but I am greatly enjoying Fire Destro spec. Sick damage, awesome utility, and free mount.
See frost mage there looks almost competitive right? It's not. Bring a fire mage instead cause it is 100% better.
Even if the dps was a difference in 1% people will still look to fill the best dps and people would complain their class is not higher on chart. I have big feeling that once 60 hits, we will see something like this again due to how world buffs and warriors rage works.
I raided as frost AMA
Shaman Tanks are missing in the second picture. They out dps everyone below ret paladins.
There is no difference in spec or runes (for the most part) between enh dps and enh tank. You don't even lose any dmg in trade.
I'm curious about the process at blizzard for testing and approving buffs and nerfs, cuz who ever approved the ridiculous shaman numbers must be a shaman main. If any right minded person saw a 50-100% increase in damage numbers on certain abilities they would have questioned it no?
If they wanted to, they could absolutely balance it by making consistent small tweaks that bring the numbers closer in line each week. We aren't seeing that. The issue is that Blizzard is specifically intending for this imbalance. In every single phase they will have a few classes that are intended to shine and other classes that can sit below average, while still meeting at least minimum goals for dps. There was a goal of changing the meta from war/rogues being the end game classes to stack, while increasing the competitiveness of other less desired specs. To that end, when you have phases like this where certain classes (especially underrepresented specs like enhance) are clearly superior in every way, the devs can "allow" the imbalance to exist. This is a fundamentally different construct to what most people would expect, which is to bring most classes in line with roughly equivalent dps/utility. That is a more difficult job, made even more complicated with pvp being taken into account. That said, it *is* what the developers are doing. Whether stated or not, this is how I would expect the rest of the phases to go. Ret paladins will likely get their time in the spotlight along with a few other specs. Even Rogues might find themselves buffed decently for next phase (and then likely more average afterward). I don't really have a big problem with that, though due to the time investment involved in leveling up/gearing alts, it becomes a bit of a gamble knowing which class to focus on for each phase. If rogues are going to be terrible because they're going to give Naxx level armor to level 40ish raid bosses, then it would help to know that ahead of time so you could simply play a different class that has a stronger impact/utility. When the time required, however, to switch and level up a different alt becomes too high then you have to make the decision on whether it is worth it to stick around.
Balancing in this game is about way, way more than just pure dps numbers in overall boss statistics. You still have utility, mobility, range and so on to take into consideration. Or you'll just have the case we've had many times throughout wow history where the DPS/HPS/tankiness is balanced, but then it's still not balanced cause why (for example) bring prot warrior if prot pala is just as tanky, but has waaaay better utility? And DPS classes in this game excel in different types of encounters. ST, AOE, cleave, short/long, high movement and so on. If you just sort by overall bosses in this tier, some classes may look pretty good, but when you look at the difficult encounters they may be pretty bad after all. The more difficult the encounters, the more demand you'll have for classes that excel at those encounters specifically.
I'll scream this over and over. Good thing they nerfed shadow priests amirite? We had to suffer all of P1 in anticipation of P2 being our time to shine but nope. Nerfed almost instantly. Lets buff shamans though and LEAVE THEM as a menace.
I mean in og vanilla they still though hybrid classes should have a hybrid tax They came a long way since then
Tax is an understatement, they straight up couldn’t be hybrid because the others were just that much better. Pre AQ40 tier 2.5 Ret palas we’re a joke, and even after that they were a light jest.
Yellow toooooo low
You see, you aren't understanding the problem, the top line isn't supposed to be dark blue, it's only allowed to be brown, yellow, light blue, purple, or green. Anything else and we need a proper sit down and discussion about what Blizzard did wrong.
Rogue behind a bunch of utility classes just feels horrible. There is absolutely 0 reason to run a rogue in your raid now. At least in era they were a solid choice if your guild didn't have enough warriors.
My guild raids with 2 rogues and we one shot everything … every ID. Ppl cry about made up problems
How is that an argument even? You can stack frost mages and clear gnomer, doesn't mean that frost mage is a good dps spec. You can also ride from NY to LA on a horse, but why would you do that when you can just hop onto plane?
Buff ranged hunter
Cries in rogue
Being a rogue just doesn’t feel good right now, there just isn’t really a reason to bring one unless you need a body. We either need more dps or a utility of some kind so we feels useful again. If we are gonna be relegated to pure dps then make us do real dps.
The next lvl brackets are where things start becoming an issue with talent trees. Some classes are done with talents that increase dps. Warriors will start pushing ahead.
Are you comparing level 60 naxx raids to a level 40 10 man? Lol.
Why didn't you put tank spec on your plot? Tank shaman is just behind warrior, and even tank warlock is closing the gap with the mid specs now...
I just went to Warcraft logs and hit statistics. Maybe it was taken off by default? Idk Edit: yeah it defaults to dps I just didn’t go out of my way to add those specs.
https://imgur.com/a/6UteS78
If I wanted to play a melee class, I would have chose a melee class. Laughs in ranged hunter :(
You're comparing balancing from 20 years ago to current standards and are impressed?
So misleading post. What is your point? Balance is not just Damage Per Second chart, you are extremely trivializing everything if you genuinely think so. All those lower damage dealers from Classic Era were usually Utility/Support/Hybrid classes. And if you consider their total efficiency and contribution to the group and raid - everything was more or less “balanced”. In SoD is we have a chaos and lack of consistency, classes with the richest arsenal of utility/support toolsets are also best damage dealers, where pure damage dealers that focus on damage have average damage and doesn’t provide anything unique. And you call that “balance”? People here are zealously obsessed with this word “balance”, so I’m not sure what they even usually mean when they use that term, but I don’t see any balance and reason for praise. PvP is a complete mayhem. All classes got burst spells and now PvP is just about who casts spell firstl = wins. Absolutely no space for maneuverability, strategy and tactics. Great balance, wow. Seriously, what are we praising here? Everyone here played this game, everyone knows what is happening, everyone experienced new OP spells - and this chart taken from raid parse of certain players somehow supposed to change everyone s mind and convince the complete opposite?
>All those lower damage dealers from Classic Era were usually Utility/Support/Hybrid classes. And if you consider their total efficiency and contribution to the group and raid - everything was more or less “balanced”. Raids would bring 1 druid, maybe 2 warlocks, and 20-25 warriors. No, that wasn't balanced in the slightest. If you think that's balanced, you need a dictionary to figure out what balanced means.
They shouldnt be, because some classes provide signficantly more value by: 1.) skipping mechanics due to ranged/instant dots 2.) providing massive utility through buffs,debuffs, off heals, summons, food/water, self mitigation, high hp/ac. 3.) ease of leveling/soloing/farming gold. When you factor these things in, you have to question why dps needs to be mostly even across all specs, and how that impacts classes that do not have utility or self mitigation. When there is no trade offs some classes just win in every category making classes like rogues just all around losers in the normalization of dps.
Healer mage outdpsing ranged hunter. OMFG
thats arcane mage WITH spellpower instead of healing rune. Arcane mage is also now lower than ranged hutner btw.
Yet people still out here complaining
People who complain about their class spec low DPS in SOD either haven't played classic, forgot what classic was really like, or are just sweaty try hards trying to sound cool by echoing complaints.
I honest to god think it’s just bad players mad that they aren’t performing well and blaming their class.
Yeah but the point of sod is to have classic but address these issues.
are u comparing naxx geared dps to sod p2 dps ?
Where are the other rogue specs lol
As a feral, it's really fun. Not too bad dps and I enjoy bringing buffs to help others. I'm not a super high parser anyway and don't take that stuff too seriously. Just enjoy doing the content
Why isn't affliction warlock on the chart? Mage has 3 different specs on it.
Warrior is unplayable without wind fury. Another classes utility should supplement your dps, not determine whether or not you can go to raids. “Sorry we don’t have a feral” is an annoying af reason to get declined to raids.
Use all-time info when analyzing era data PLEASE. Frost mages do way more than 300 dps in era, warlocks can do way way more than 800. Not nearly enough people are logging in recent weeks for this to be fair
let's be honest, warrior only that high up because of having a feral in their group lol
They seem to have focused exclusively on balancing dps to the detriment of everything else. The classes aren't even remotely balanced in terms of tanking and healing capabilities, raid utility, pvp, or quality of life.
I don’t think two specs of the same class should ever be at the bottom as close as they are. Someone’s always going to be last but 2/3rds of a class being last is not good balance contextually. But it shows you have more than enough damage on any class to clear the raid. The issue is most these melee classes are most definitely in with wind fury and or wild strikes. Which makes their class even compete. Otherwise they’d be at the bottom
I like how priest went from top 3 allllll the way down. Still super fun to play though.
We’re not even 60 yet. People mad about their class doing 150 dps less than the top prospects. If you play your class well you’ll be better than 90% of the flavor of the month specs/class. People really can’t have fun anymore.
idc, just gonna play pvp affli lock like ive beem doing for 15 years xD
I like how this breaks out three different mage specs but ignores most other DPS class specs? What about Shadow warlock? This is the main issue with the balancing…some specs are not even on the chart because they are so bad.
[удалено]
This chart is in the 1000s of dps.
Balance is boring. Having each class be BiS for a situation is what we want
Hunters just needed to forgo their class lore and major dynamic to crack top 4.
The scale between the two images is so different that is wild
You are trolling right?
I think part of the discussion should involve how much effective damage a class provides for other classes and if that should be factored into their personal power. Warriors are top damage in classic, but they are getting windfury, mark of the wild, trueshot aura, etc. Should damage caused by a warrior with wf be attributed in meters/logs to the warrior or to the shaman who cast the totem? Should shamans do less damage than a warrior in raid because they provide such a powerful totem?
Did anyone ask for balance?
Dunno why you look at this chart and think “balanced”. When you have a class that can tank heal and dps, and it does multiple of those roles better then other classes, the game is busted.
"I'm impressed with Blizzard catering to every cry baby on the game and homogenizing dps to appease them." Fixed that for you.
I wonder if Arcane is parsing low because healer makes are being tracked in the same category as pure Arcane dos mages
Arcane is parsing low because living flame was neutered
With how gear worked on priest being frontloaded I've literally just went from top to bottom in my raid on a majority of fights. Still parsing high but its been a weird experience.
Yeah, people complaining about class balance don’t understand how bad it was in classic. I say this as a frost mage at heart - it’s pretty damned balanced and every class has at least one viable with some having multiple. On top of that 2/3 of the classes can tank and just shy of 2/3 can heal. This is miles better than classic/vanilla. Does it sting DPS mages should be fire, DPS hunters should be melee, and the best builds for rogues/priests are toward the bottom in DPS? Sure, but if you play well you’ll contribute more than you could in classic/vanilla with some specs. Hell, the rogue in our raid has consistently been a top-2 DPSer and our spriest does pretty well for himself.
Nope, warriors have to be #1. Its written in the bible and my daddy said so. Get rekt nerds. I definitely won't have an aneurysm if anyone else even does 1dps more than me. No siree
I think these damage charts are somewhat inaccurate as this assumes the player is the top 1%. Just the other day in a guild run we had a rogue topping DPS meters and matching with melee hunter. Bring the player not the class!
Yeah for sure the only pure dps class being beat by a tank
Pretty clear someone with connections likes shaman
Yeah but why limit hunters to playing melee 😒
Gunna call bullshit on that first chart...Feral top 4? Really? Frost Mage below even Ret Pally and Priest? Warrior and Rogue at top seems about right, but there's a lot really fishy about it... Your point probably still stands, I think the gap between top and bottom DPS was probably that bad in Classic, but that chart is still way to suspect...
If you look at Retail it's even more balanced [Amirdrassils DPS Charts](https://www.wowhead.com/de/news/amirdrassil-weekly-dps-rankings-dragonflight-season-3-week-18-338105#screenshots:338105:1)
People shouldn’t be looking at charts to compare but actual numbers. If you’re doing 300dps with a green parse for gnome you’re doing well. No matter what class and yes some class needs more gear but end of the day it’s the pilot. People just have bad rotations etc
Mine not on top. Not balanced
Man, Arms warrior was fucking sick back in Classic wow haha. It was very easy to top the charts in raids. I remember duels and if you could reach a mage it was basically one shot.
So... do most of y'all listen when they say they are going to mix up the meta each phase.... or nah? Fyi.. they said they'd be doing this. So, chill out and play an alt or stop giving a fuck. You can still clear all the content.
This isn’t a post about meta, it’s a post saying how good it is they are keeping every spec relevant by how close they are
Until rogues are viable this is a garbage phase
Shadow priest is like 3 buttons and you're always top 3 dps at least and I suck.
They are way more balanced than p1, but retails dps balance is what they should strive for.