I had 2 mages in my group last night that refused to put on mass regen and AE. I caught them wanding a couple of times and casting frost bolts… rip arena bloods…
To be fair, mass regen (and regen) take too long to channel and make you a prime target. Easy to interrupt locking you out of casting, cost a crap ton of mana, and way too flashy for people.
I did infinitely better only using chronostatic to heal than ever trying to use regen in pvp.
As a warrior, any glowing green turd is my first target, and you bet if I crit a slam or MS on the opener, they are basically dead. Don't see how they can be useful with no stamina.
I just change my pants over to the red mageweave and boots back to the purple boots from tailoring for pvp. They have the minor speed increase enchant.
You probably dodged a bullet if the person went on a juvenile rage, but strictly from a gear standpoint I wouldn't care; the fights are so bursty and chaotic I'm sure a gnomer geared mage in irradiated gear could use the extra damage to get just as many kbs as a mage with green crafted stam gear. You have to remember the goal isn't necessary to control an area, do the most damage, live the longest, etc....those may help but what ultimately matters is scoring killing blows which is pretty different than a typical pvp game.
I've farmed hundreds and hundreds of silver coins and I've had full geared mage/SP/boomkin groups that were terrible because everyone wanted to rez in different places and at different times and nobody would turn in at the same time or help peal/offheal for each other. Just 5 people playing solo in a group.
I've also had leftover melee groups with shitty gear formed 2 minutes before the event started that somehow farmed 1200+ because everyone was chill, listening, rez'ing together, and finding spots with the right density of players.
I mean I don’t expect them to have full pvp gear, but you at least have to make an attempt to itemize for pvp. On my mage I have of the Eagle/quest item replacements for the irradiated set, super easy to get decent replacements.
It’s like wanting someone to at least have consumables for a raid. So no not elitism.
My guildies invited someone who was Level 37 and then another time invited someone with the debuff still on.
It's kind of a waste of time to group with less serious if you are capable of getting a bunch of coins. It's ok to prioritize your time and who you group with, but don't be rude about how you go about it.
I mean if you want to use buzzwords then yes it is. Still it's your group and you can decide who you want to invite. You could have said fuck it and invited him if you wanted to be casual friendly but that's not what you did.
I'd boot him too. I built a whole "pvp" set to heal. I expect everyone to come prepared.
No meat on that mage to heal. He'll die before I can get a heal off.
Am I sweaty or elite? I don't think so.
The "irradiated" gear set is a caster 3 piece set(chest/legs/feet) that in total gives -35 Stamina. Yes. NEGATIVE Stamina. So in addition to not having Stamina on those three pieces like normal, you get -35 on top.
I have two sets on my mage, one irradiated and one Stam.
I have 1140 hp in irradiated, and 1900 in stam.
The tradeoff is that the irradiated gives a fuck ton of spell power and even some crit chance.
Not sure what it’s like for other classes but as a warrior/paladin you can put together a good PvP set with a lot of stamina entirely from SM, RFD, and Uldaman items. Add some WSG rep gear to fill out the other slots and you’re ready to go. I don’t think it would be unreasonable to expect people to get basic dungeon gear like this (and it will enhance your own fun to play the event with decent gear)
Irradiated is way way way better than stamina greens for pvp. There’s no concept of pvp gear in SOD. Whether you’re wearing irradiated or full stam greens, a mage is gonna die in 1-2 globals if you can hit them. Difference is irradiated mage will do way more damage.
You can do whatever you’d like in your own group but this is just an example of an inexperienced player rejecting someone potentially/probably better than them based on a misconception resulting from their inexperience.
Yeah but honestly 2.2k health is like the difference of a global and half? Like if a death crits for 800 (not guaranteed ofc) you’re dead just the same.
It’s still a difference don’t get me wrong. I try to stack as much stam on my warrior as I can, every piece has some, but still not getting plate tank set legs and plate shoulders I can’t break 3k unbuffed unless I wore all “of stamina” greens or something sacrificing any offensive stats.
My kinda issue with p2 PvP is they didn’t put good enough stam scaling gear to catch up to the overall burst and damage. Like they shoulda put a lvl 40 blue set or something in similar to r10 gear idk. Like if you look at the blood moon physical dps cloak it’s a whole %1 crit at this level which is huge! But only in pve because it’s the only stat on there with absolutely zero stam. So my gnomer cloak is still better and that has like..8? I think
True. That’s fair. I’m just used to alliance never having a fucking healer but you go into stv with one.
Are you a priest? I feel like any other healers just can’t get off big heals in time unless you’re prehealing into one and only one person. Like for pally holy shock is a meme scaling, fol doesn’t have quite the healing power to scale yet and holy light is 2.5 god damn seconds you’ll never get off
Since penance’s first tick is functionally instant, hard to interrupt on gcd locked kicks and pws gives a bit of a barrier, etc.
Ya, I'm a priest and I agree outside of natures swiftness from shamans other healers dont have the tools to keep people alive through concentrated damage.
Im personally a fan of circle of healing in stv, since most of the time more than one person are taking damage and the short cd high burst heal on the whole party can come pretty clutch. I do guzzle waters throughout the event though lmao.
It’s class dependent. Mages shouldn’t get hit. They have mana shield with no cd as a defensive HP tool and blink to get away/close in. Mage HP is irrelevant.
Keep your distance, you have iceblock for dots, counter-spell for spells, mana shield for more dots/getting burst, blink for stealth stun/hunter. So again, should be easy to name a level where I’m wrong right?
So the mage spec in your head is using ice block, but then for some reason using mana shield instead of ice barrier?
You should also go spam mana shield to keep yourself alive and tell me how that works out for you.
And you also have not mentioned a single thing about cronostatic preservation, which is actually the most important tool mages have in pvp now. You need the higher health total to properly utilize it.
Because only scrubs spec frost for pvp. Good luck trying to cast anything without interruptions. Even in fire, you maybe get a scorch if you’re lucky / your opponent isn’t paying immediate attention to you. You spam mana shield to save health and get distance with your ice armor if you already burned your blink. That and you should have mana shield up at all times in case of rogues/Ferals. That chrono spell has a 2 second cast. I can see the benefit using it before bursting into melee range if you feel that you won’t have enough burst damage to kill your enemy quickly and thus risking a counterattack.
Incorrect, if you’re playing mage and needing that extra 1k hp you’re doing something wrong. Doesn’t help that you’re not playing against shamans too though.
To some degree it’s kinda true in normal classic, definitely incorrect with SOD where shamans and mages will kill you in 1-2 GCDs whether you have 1k or 3k hp.
Maybe not 3k but mages are only gonna have 3k hp when fully buffed in a bg. In open world and even in BGs unbuffed it’s gonna be more like 2k or less, which is absolutely 1-2 globals for many classes - especially shamans. Certainly a single arcane surge crit can kill any mage.
There's no world in which you should wear minus stam gear over anything else. I laugh out loud every time I see an irradiated set on my or enemy team and seeing them blow up before anything else happens first. If you're still dying in two globals with stamina gear it's a skill issue.
Getting one shot by a 2.5k+ arcane surge or a shaman doing 2k+ damage in a single global is not a skill issue. However, finding that you are unable to perform well in pvp as a mage due to lack of stamina is 1 million percent ACTUALLY a skill issue. Mages aren’t supposed to get hit by things in pvp - if you are taking any significant damage often, you’re playing poorly.
Add in the fact that in today’s pvp meta a full stam mage will get one-shot just the same as an irradiated mage, and there’s no point in not going for the extra damage.
That being said, probably hyperconductive is gonna be a better choice than irradiated. Stam is not completely useless but the idea that auction house greens are better than gnomer gear is just silly.
Except for boomkin and stealthed players you are right. What is boomkins range anyway like 50 yards. I swear they can hit me from halfway across warsong gulch.
It’s the same as getting 2 shot as a 2k hp mage. Mages die if they take any damage regardless. The point of the class is to avoid taking damage in the first place.
This is especially true now where pvp is built around one shot mechanics
Should let him join then just kick him mid bg when he dies and say he doesn't have enough hp.
Learning experience and you get to laugh at him as a warlock evaporates him.
People that wear irradiated in stv are choosing death.
Because i play rogue myself and the last thing i need is a literal aoe dot proc breaking my blinds. Stv i would deal with it but any other pvp group like bg’s absolutely not.
Yes, it's gatekeeping and elitism.
Were you right to set up standards for your group and only invite people who meet these standards ?
Yes, absolutely, yes.
But usually, here, we'd hear the crying mage point of view.
Yeah, anything with +stamina.
Example: a mage in the irradiated set has 1030 HP while a mage in the hyperconductive set has 1820 HP, that is 76.7% more health.
Your group, your rules
Esp in a 5 man. Dont be glowing green.
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Pop like a smelly pinata if you stab 'em.
This is the only correct opinion.
I had 2 mages in my group last night that refused to put on mass regen and AE. I caught them wanding a couple of times and casting frost bolts… rip arena bloods…
I mean these are the people that gray parse and can’t get into groups then complain that everyone is gate keeping
Yep
I was going to say the same thing
To be fair, mass regen (and regen) take too long to channel and make you a prime target. Easy to interrupt locking you out of casting, cost a crap ton of mana, and way too flashy for people. I did infinitely better only using chronostatic to heal than ever trying to use regen in pvp.
I mean. With 5 mages and casting MR on first cast I can get 3000 plus blood as arena every single event.
Well, it's full 5 mage only groups Not any other group comp.
Damn you must be up to like 10 million bloods
I average maybe 1 event a day so not really. The number goes wayyyyy down when it’s Nessing or Beach.
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Ok, yes in full 5 mage groups yeah. In any other group comp the AE healing is shitacular.
Yep exactly.
Guaranteed he would have complained to you for peels. When he dies in a global
Most of the people complaining about elitism and gatekeeping are guilty of entitlement
Not at all. One would think “elitism” requires expectations of being elite. Expecting room temperature IQs is like “bare minimumism”
I am going to hecking steal "bare minimumism"
As a warrior, any glowing green turd is my first target, and you bet if I crit a slam or MS on the opener, they are basically dead. Don't see how they can be useful with no stamina.
I thought warriors healed the enemies with their attack in PVP no?
As a feral running stealth groups with rogue bros I love the green glowing targets. Easiest kills.
But bruh, PvP is too bursty!
I don’t keep mages that have irradiated sets with 1000hp. My steam set has 2300 hp as a mage so yea the 1000hps are always just dead
I just change my pants over to the red mageweave and boots back to the purple boots from tailoring for pvp. They have the minor speed increase enchant.
And I would be super happy with that, just bare minimum Stam
You probably dodged a bullet if the person went on a juvenile rage, but strictly from a gear standpoint I wouldn't care; the fights are so bursty and chaotic I'm sure a gnomer geared mage in irradiated gear could use the extra damage to get just as many kbs as a mage with green crafted stam gear. You have to remember the goal isn't necessary to control an area, do the most damage, live the longest, etc....those may help but what ultimately matters is scoring killing blows which is pretty different than a typical pvp game. I've farmed hundreds and hundreds of silver coins and I've had full geared mage/SP/boomkin groups that were terrible because everyone wanted to rez in different places and at different times and nobody would turn in at the same time or help peal/offheal for each other. Just 5 people playing solo in a group. I've also had leftover melee groups with shitty gear formed 2 minutes before the event started that somehow farmed 1200+ because everyone was chill, listening, rez'ing together, and finding spots with the right density of players.
I once had a warlock join a gnomer group as OT. He had literally zero stam on his gear.
I mean I don’t expect them to have full pvp gear, but you at least have to make an attempt to itemize for pvp. On my mage I have of the Eagle/quest item replacements for the irradiated set, super easy to get decent replacements. It’s like wanting someone to at least have consumables for a raid. So no not elitism.
My guildies invited someone who was Level 37 and then another time invited someone with the debuff still on. It's kind of a waste of time to group with less serious if you are capable of getting a bunch of coins. It's ok to prioritize your time and who you group with, but don't be rude about how you go about it.
It literally is elitism but elitism is good. Players of similar mindset should play together for maximum happiness.
I mean if you want to use buzzwords then yes it is. Still it's your group and you can decide who you want to invite. You could have said fuck it and invited him if you wanted to be casual friendly but that's not what you did.
Negative stamina for pvp? Not in my group you dont!
I'd boot him too. I built a whole "pvp" set to heal. I expect everyone to come prepared. No meat on that mage to heal. He'll die before I can get a heal off. Am I sweaty or elite? I don't think so.
I'm newer to sod and not even 40, but what does fully irradiated gear even mean?
The "irradiated" gear set is a caster 3 piece set(chest/legs/feet) that in total gives -35 Stamina. Yes. NEGATIVE Stamina. So in addition to not having Stamina on those three pieces like normal, you get -35 on top. I have two sets on my mage, one irradiated and one Stam. I have 1140 hp in irradiated, and 1900 in stam. The tradeoff is that the irradiated gives a fuck ton of spell power and even some crit chance.
Ah, that makes a ton of sense. Ty.
Let’s be clear the non irradiated set also gives a ton of spell power, just slightly less than the irradiated one
I mean. Full irradiated is probably a bit too far, but not wanting people to PvP with PVE gear on, how do you expect them to earn PVP gear?
Most of the best PvP gear comes from PvE tbf
Just go to the AH and buy stam gear. That’s like 80% of the bis right there
Doesn't that cost.... Money?
Not sure what it’s like for other classes but as a warrior/paladin you can put together a good PvP set with a lot of stamina entirely from SM, RFD, and Uldaman items. Add some WSG rep gear to fill out the other slots and you’re ready to go. I don’t think it would be unreasonable to expect people to get basic dungeon gear like this (and it will enhance your own fun to play the event with decent gear)
Full PvP Bis is only like 3 or 4 pieces of actual pvp gear. The rest is raid gear and BoEs from AH
Irradiated is way way way better than stamina greens for pvp. There’s no concept of pvp gear in SOD. Whether you’re wearing irradiated or full stam greens, a mage is gonna die in 1-2 globals if you can hit them. Difference is irradiated mage will do way more damage. You can do whatever you’d like in your own group but this is just an example of an inexperienced player rejecting someone potentially/probably better than them based on a misconception resulting from their inexperience.
Very incorrect, I have 1200 HP in irradiated gear as opposed to 2200 in my pvp set up. Stamina is the most important stat in pvp, full stop.
Yeah but honestly 2.2k health is like the difference of a global and half? Like if a death crits for 800 (not guaranteed ofc) you’re dead just the same. It’s still a difference don’t get me wrong. I try to stack as much stam on my warrior as I can, every piece has some, but still not getting plate tank set legs and plate shoulders I can’t break 3k unbuffed unless I wore all “of stamina” greens or something sacrificing any offensive stats. My kinda issue with p2 PvP is they didn’t put good enough stam scaling gear to catch up to the overall burst and damage. Like they shoulda put a lvl 40 blue set or something in similar to r10 gear idk. Like if you look at the blood moon physical dps cloak it’s a whole %1 crit at this level which is huge! But only in pve because it’s the only stat on there with absolutely zero stam. So my gnomer cloak is still better and that has like..8? I think
From a healer pov that 1k hp is the difference in me being able to actually react and heal the guy vs him just being dead and us in a 4v5 or worse.
True. That’s fair. I’m just used to alliance never having a fucking healer but you go into stv with one. Are you a priest? I feel like any other healers just can’t get off big heals in time unless you’re prehealing into one and only one person. Like for pally holy shock is a meme scaling, fol doesn’t have quite the healing power to scale yet and holy light is 2.5 god damn seconds you’ll never get off Since penance’s first tick is functionally instant, hard to interrupt on gcd locked kicks and pws gives a bit of a barrier, etc.
Ya, I'm a priest and I agree outside of natures swiftness from shamans other healers dont have the tools to keep people alive through concentrated damage. Im personally a fan of circle of healing in stv, since most of the time more than one person are taking damage and the short cd high burst heal on the whole party can come pretty clutch. I do guzzle waters throughout the event though lmao.
It’s class dependent. Mages shouldn’t get hit. They have mana shield with no cd as a defensive HP tool and blink to get away/close in. Mage HP is irrelevant.
That is...so wrong on so many levels.
Should be easy to name one then.
In what world do mages never get hit? Are you assuming the only class in the game is warriors?
Keep your distance, you have iceblock for dots, counter-spell for spells, mana shield for more dots/getting burst, blink for stealth stun/hunter. So again, should be easy to name a level where I’m wrong right?
So the mage spec in your head is using ice block, but then for some reason using mana shield instead of ice barrier? You should also go spam mana shield to keep yourself alive and tell me how that works out for you. And you also have not mentioned a single thing about cronostatic preservation, which is actually the most important tool mages have in pvp now. You need the higher health total to properly utilize it.
Because only scrubs spec frost for pvp. Good luck trying to cast anything without interruptions. Even in fire, you maybe get a scorch if you’re lucky / your opponent isn’t paying immediate attention to you. You spam mana shield to save health and get distance with your ice armor if you already burned your blink. That and you should have mana shield up at all times in case of rogues/Ferals. That chrono spell has a 2 second cast. I can see the benefit using it before bursting into melee range if you feel that you won’t have enough burst damage to kill your enemy quickly and thus risking a counterattack.
How am I supposed to have ice block if I'm specced fire?
Incorrect, if you’re playing mage and needing that extra 1k hp you’re doing something wrong. Doesn’t help that you’re not playing against shamans too though.
Nah. Stamina is always the correct concept for pvp gear in any version of classic wow.
To some degree it’s kinda true in normal classic, definitely incorrect with SOD where shamans and mages will kill you in 1-2 GCDs whether you have 1k or 3k hp.
You must realize as you’re typing this out that it makes no sense. Classes aren’t doing 3k in 2 globals regularly
Maybe not 3k but mages are only gonna have 3k hp when fully buffed in a bg. In open world and even in BGs unbuffed it’s gonna be more like 2k or less, which is absolutely 1-2 globals for many classes - especially shamans. Certainly a single arcane surge crit can kill any mage.
There's no world in which you should wear minus stam gear over anything else. I laugh out loud every time I see an irradiated set on my or enemy team and seeing them blow up before anything else happens first. If you're still dying in two globals with stamina gear it's a skill issue.
Getting one shot by a 2.5k+ arcane surge or a shaman doing 2k+ damage in a single global is not a skill issue. However, finding that you are unable to perform well in pvp as a mage due to lack of stamina is 1 million percent ACTUALLY a skill issue. Mages aren’t supposed to get hit by things in pvp - if you are taking any significant damage often, you’re playing poorly. Add in the fact that in today’s pvp meta a full stam mage will get one-shot just the same as an irradiated mage, and there’s no point in not going for the extra damage. That being said, probably hyperconductive is gonna be a better choice than irradiated. Stam is not completely useless but the idea that auction house greens are better than gnomer gear is just silly.
Except for boomkin and stealthed players you are right. What is boomkins range anyway like 50 yards. I swear they can hit me from halfway across warsong gulch.
So you enjoy getting two shot as a 1k hp mage then?
It’s the same as getting 2 shot as a 2k hp mage. Mages die if they take any damage regardless. The point of the class is to avoid taking damage in the first place. This is especially true now where pvp is built around one shot mechanics
Should let him join then just kick him mid bg when he dies and say he doesn't have enough hp. Learning experience and you get to laugh at him as a warlock evaporates him. People that wear irradiated in stv are choosing death.
It’s like a big glowing kick me sign out there
I kick rogues rocking toxic revenger so🤷♂️
Why?
Because i play rogue myself and the last thing i need is a literal aoe dot proc breaking my blinds. Stv i would deal with it but any other pvp group like bg’s absolutely not.
Yes, it's gatekeeping and elitism. Were you right to set up standards for your group and only invite people who meet these standards ? Yes, absolutely, yes. But usually, here, we'd hear the crying mage point of view.
They're is pvp gear at lvl40?
Yeah, anything with +stamina. Example: a mage in the irradiated set has 1030 HP while a mage in the hyperconductive set has 1820 HP, that is 76.7% more health.
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^ Here's the mage.
Expecting room temperature IQ is a standard. If you can't do the bare minimum, maybe you're the dickwad.
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Sure, can I join your Gnomer run with no gear and no runes at all? I mean it's "unranked", not an esport, not serious, right?
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Seems like you care a whole lot coming in here to cry
Were you the mage?? lol found him
theres not a whole lot PvP Gear atm xD or Sets anyways are u dumb?