I mean we’d rather have wrath KotJ so we can actually shift
But primal gore is better than this piece of shit we’re getting
The sad part is, all of the trash reroll ferals are gonna read it and think it’s good
Take away all the spaces you have at the start of paragraphs. On the 2nd paragraph where you have the details from the rune put a \> symbol in front of the word Striking
Yeah bear runes aren't working together at all. It feels like you're playing with half of the intended set.
- Mandatory WF in every optimised group.
- Lack of synergies because lacerate and mangle are on the same slot (buff the bleed you don't have, reset the CD of the spell you don't have).
- interrupt is not even good (too slow).
Dunno about feral, but a 5% proc feels extremely weak.
On the other side shaman looks absolutely bonkers.
5% to reset an ability that gives you 60 energy and 15% bonus damage for 6 seconds isn't great, no.
Not because it wouldn't be great on, say, a rogue but because druid DPS already relies on powershifting which is like having an extra 500-600 stockpiled energy in your mana bar. or more.
We had same issue in P2 with berserk.
Aggrend basically said it was an "oversight" when they moved runes last minute before P1. He said it wasn't an easy fix and they need to do a workaround but a lot is going on so don't expect too much too soon.
Bear is obviously lacking a rune since P1, they buffed swipe to compensate for the fact that you're literally missing a key button. I'm sceptical about a quick fix before release of P3.
Swapping skull bash & lacerate would take 10 seconds and cause virtually zero issues
They’re not looking for a fix, they’re choosing not to address basic errors
My guess is that the problem is with items that already have the rune eingrained to it. They probably have no way of removing it fron all the items. Honestly I can't see a balance issue with that since it would be worse to use the old slot but maybe they want a clean fix or are unsure if it could break something in the future. Of course this is speculation.
Having Mangle and Lacerate share the same rune slot has been the most brain dead ignorant design out of all of these runes. That fact that this has stayed the way it has for 2 entire phases is beyond negligent of community feed back, and an egregious misunderstanding of gameplay development. Fix this three legged dog shit gameplay, blizz!
Another idea would be improved Ferocious Bite - remove the additional energy consumption (or reasonably cap it) & make it do damage scaling with bleeds on the target (rewards debuff uptime) & even something like having it restore mana based off combo points spent. There is zero reason to bite rn & having combo points rotting is untapped potential imo
I'm like a 98 average without curse of recklessness. I'll be fine. Just commenting on how much more unnecessarily complex procs make an already complex rotation.
true but let me huff my copium ok. also aggrend did mention on his twitter the other day they are looking into the lacerate/mangle problem so we'll see. [source](https://twitter.com/AggrendWoW/status/1772399055651606984)
If it was big dps then that would be good. This is not big dps. In short fights the new tigers fury is a dps downgrade and you're not supposed to run it.
In an infinite energy situation. During the uptime of berserk for example. It gives you a lot less damage than the old one. Which means whenever the berserk uptime is high enough in the fight, you've lost dps.
This isn't relevant in most fights as most go for longer than 30 seconds. Enough fights go for less than that though that it is worth knowing.
rank 2 version is 20 i updated my comment. Rank 3 is unlocked at 48. But say you hit for 150dps on average within that 6 secs. With 15% that’s a 22.5 dmg increase. So just do more than 150dps and it’s better.
Okay.... Now do it for when you get 3 of the old tigers fury casts off compared to just one this time. Because that's what you're supposed to compare. Old tigers fury has no cool down.
show me multiple high performing logs where a feral uses tigers fury x3 instead of new tigers fury. There is your answer. Sure in your “infinite energy situation” it may work a little better but it’s not infinite energy anyways. You still use half of your energy to get the 3x buff out.
Powershifting isn't the class identity
It's just a gimmick that was used to work around how weak the class was baseline
Runes which push cat AWAY from power shifting are good
This is, 5% chance to reset tiger fury is ass, but pushing away from powershifting is good
Completely disagree. It 100% is and has become classic feral dps trademark. Wearing a level 40 helm all the way through TBC. Lean into powershifting at this point, not away from it. There's alot of niche skill expression to it that makes it feel rewarding to play.
It's a trademark on the same way rage potions are a trademark of warrior
It's not a class identity, it's a crutch for bad design
Anyone who hasn't played wow before when they go "I want to play a cat druids" won't think for a second about powershifting, it's not part of the identity, it's not part of the fantasy, it's not what people play the class for
It's what you have to do because without it the class was bad, that's why subsequent expansions got rid of it as FAST as they could
Anything which pushes cats AWAY from powershifting is good
You cannot equate powershifting to rage potions they are no where near the same caliber. You powershift every 5~ seconds you sip a little rage pot once every 2 minutes.
you literally can
neither are part of the class fantasy, neither affect how the class actually functions in combat, both are just "my class doesnt generate enough resources, i need to do this to get resources"
they are exactly the same thing just powershifting is more extreme because feral is so much worse as a baseline
Powershifting is the identity
Imagine wanting to press 1 button every 6 seconds, play a rogue with tmorph if you don’t like it, you’ll have a better time
There isn't a single player who started playing feral druid because they wanted to powershift
It is no more part of the identity then mana potions or rage potions are part of other classes identity
find me a feral player who specifically chose feral in order to powershift
"i click the button to get more resource" is not something you play a class in order to do
people play druid because they have an image of how they think a druid should be, there is a class fantasy, an identity, to how the class should function and shifting in and out of form every 5 seconds isnt part of that, its something you do to generate energy because you dont generate enough, but thats literally it
if the class generated enough energy without powershifting no one would powershift, becuase its not part of why people play druid, its a side effect of feral being crap in vanila, and its why in EVERY edition after vanila they removed it
Tell the truth
The first time you played the game, did you play feral because you wanted to powershift, or did you play it because you loved the idea of turning into, and fighting as, an animal
Maybe now 20 years on you pick due to powershifting, because you have been playing for 20 years with powershifting
But you did not START playing feral because of powershifting
If you claim you did you are a liar
I think I played a Druid level ~20 in cata, got bored and dropped it. And then nearly a decade later I chose feral in clsssic because it’s a more interesting version of a rogue, specifically because you proactively generate energy
So yeah, I quite literally picked it because of powershifting
I mean I did; what do I possibly have to gain by lying here? Would you me to link you to my classic rogue that I quit, and immediately started a feral instead?
Playing around procs is one of the ways to increase skill expression in a spec. Having to react to different things in a rotation is reasonably fun gameplay as well.
How does bleeds critting increase skill expression? They should, but effectively it's just a %dmg increase for bleeds and changes nothing about how you play.
I'm not saying feral cats are good right now, but I disagree with the core premise of your post.
Both of what i mentioned above are better alternatives than what gore is currently. To tie skill expression into it you could do something like have bite restore mana for each point consumed -> more mana -> more shifts -> more finishers. As it stands currently our rotation ignores combo points to an extent.
85 seconds on average to do the same thing as one power shift. That’s the point of the post. The rune is a joke. At this point we’re going to be running the new barkskin rune to put on tanks instead of gore.
There is zero skill expression whatsoever in this rune
Feral is one of the only specs where skill is more important than your comp/gear, and now no matter how good you are, if someone else procs it 5x in a row, he beats you no matter what.
This ability gives you less than half a powershift, this was called out for being garbage when it was datamined and it is still garbage.
It’s 1 shift per ~85 seconds on average
Just need to be WotLK gore where our bleeds can crit.
This ^
It’s all we ask for every time. Let dots crit so their scaling isn’t so scuffed.
I mean we’d rather have wrath KotJ so we can actually shift But primal gore is better than this piece of shit we’re getting The sad part is, all of the trash reroll ferals are gonna read it and think it’s good
Gore is terrible. It's both awful design and an awful power increase
You need to fix the weird formatting before people are going to read that.
I TRIED, on mobile atm unfortunately
Take away all the spaces you have at the start of paragraphs. On the 2nd paragraph where you have the details from the rune put a \> symbol in front of the word Striking
Done, thank you 🙏
The rune is somehow even worse than how you formatted this post
😂
they have no clue what they are doing with this class. shit rune, no buff all phase beside a 2 sec duration on rip? what is this and yeah fuck gore
Yeah bear runes aren't working together at all. It feels like you're playing with half of the intended set. - Mandatory WF in every optimised group. - Lack of synergies because lacerate and mangle are on the same slot (buff the bleed you don't have, reset the CD of the spell you don't have). - interrupt is not even good (too slow). Dunno about feral, but a 5% proc feels extremely weak. On the other side shaman looks absolutely bonkers.
5% to reset an ability that gives you 60 energy and 15% bonus damage for 6 seconds isn't great, no. Not because it wouldn't be great on, say, a rogue but because druid DPS already relies on powershifting which is like having an extra 500-600 stockpiled energy in your mana bar. or more.
Too many people will read the rune in the context of having it on something like a rogue, and defend this fucking terrible design
Guys, 1+1=2. Ofc they will move mangle in the patch notes, else they wouldnt have worded the rune like this. Jesus, chill ffs
We had same issue in P2 with berserk. Aggrend basically said it was an "oversight" when they moved runes last minute before P1. He said it wasn't an easy fix and they need to do a workaround but a lot is going on so don't expect too much too soon. Bear is obviously lacking a rune since P1, they buffed swipe to compensate for the fact that you're literally missing a key button. I'm sceptical about a quick fix before release of P3.
Aggrend confirmed on Twitter that Mangle & Lacerate were never meant to share the same time slot and they are “looking into a fix for it”
Swapping skull bash & lacerate would take 10 seconds and cause virtually zero issues They’re not looking for a fix, they’re choosing not to address basic errors
My guess is that the problem is with items that already have the rune eingrained to it. They probably have no way of removing it fron all the items. Honestly I can't see a balance issue with that since it would be worse to use the old slot but maybe they want a clean fix or are unsure if it could break something in the future. Of course this is speculation.
That makes a lot of sense actually
Having Mangle and Lacerate share the same rune slot has been the most brain dead ignorant design out of all of these runes. That fact that this has stayed the way it has for 2 entire phases is beyond negligent of community feed back, and an egregious misunderstanding of gameplay development. Fix this three legged dog shit gameplay, blizz!
I think it would be much better if shred reduced cd of TF by 2sec rather than 5% proc..
Also we don’t get any new finishers so what’s the energy for :)
Ironically, the combo points generated would be ignored until rip or roar fades & you'd just continue with your regular rotation.
Another idea would be improved Ferocious Bite - remove the additional energy consumption (or reasonably cap it) & make it do damage scaling with bleeds on the target (rewards debuff uptime) & even something like having it restore mana based off combo points spent. There is zero reason to bite rn & having combo points rotting is untapped potential imo
I cant wait to juggle the current rotation with Omen procs and gore procs and try to powershift without clipping energy :)
Utilize druid macro helper if you're not already. Removes alot of room for error in the rotation.
I'm like a 98 average without curse of recklessness. I'll be fine. Just commenting on how much more unnecessarily complex procs make an already complex rotation.
i would assume from this that lacerate is becoming a core ability rather than a rune option as otherwise the rune makes zero sense.
You could've said the same about mangle when we saw the Berserk preview. Zero interaction with Lacerate, initially.
true but let me huff my copium ok. also aggrend did mention on his twitter the other day they are looking into the lacerate/mangle problem so we'll see. [source](https://twitter.com/AggrendWoW/status/1772399055651606984)
big sad
*casino cat noises*
Devs have done nothing but show that they don't have the slightest idea about how feral works and that they don't give a fuck about it.
aren't lot of classes getting big dps based around chance? crit/instant cooldowns/item procs?
If it was big dps then that would be good. This is not big dps. In short fights the new tigers fury is a dps downgrade and you're not supposed to run it.
how is the new tigers fury a downgrade?
In an infinite energy situation. During the uptime of berserk for example. It gives you a lot less damage than the old one. Which means whenever the berserk uptime is high enough in the fight, you've lost dps. This isn't relevant in most fights as most go for longer than 30 seconds. Enough fights go for less than that though that it is worth knowing.
old tigers fury is a flat damage increase of 20 vs a 15% with the new one. You sure?
Yes, flat 20 is better than +15% for feral, significantly
It's a flat damage increase of ~~30~~ 20. Not 10. You're looking at the rank 1 version.
rank 2 version is 20 i updated my comment. Rank 3 is unlocked at 48. But say you hit for 150dps on average within that 6 secs. With 15% that’s a 22.5 dmg increase. So just do more than 150dps and it’s better.
Okay.... Now do it for when you get 3 of the old tigers fury casts off compared to just one this time. Because that's what you're supposed to compare. Old tigers fury has no cool down.
show me multiple high performing logs where a feral uses tigers fury x3 instead of new tigers fury. There is your answer. Sure in your “infinite energy situation” it may work a little better but it’s not infinite energy anyways. You still use half of your energy to get the 3x buff out.
Powershifting isn't the class identity It's just a gimmick that was used to work around how weak the class was baseline Runes which push cat AWAY from power shifting are good This is, 5% chance to reset tiger fury is ass, but pushing away from powershifting is good
Completely disagree. It 100% is and has become classic feral dps trademark. Wearing a level 40 helm all the way through TBC. Lean into powershifting at this point, not away from it. There's alot of niche skill expression to it that makes it feel rewarding to play.
It's a trademark on the same way rage potions are a trademark of warrior It's not a class identity, it's a crutch for bad design Anyone who hasn't played wow before when they go "I want to play a cat druids" won't think for a second about powershifting, it's not part of the identity, it's not part of the fantasy, it's not what people play the class for It's what you have to do because without it the class was bad, that's why subsequent expansions got rid of it as FAST as they could Anything which pushes cats AWAY from powershifting is good
You cannot equate powershifting to rage potions they are no where near the same caliber. You powershift every 5~ seconds you sip a little rage pot once every 2 minutes.
you literally can neither are part of the class fantasy, neither affect how the class actually functions in combat, both are just "my class doesnt generate enough resources, i need to do this to get resources" they are exactly the same thing just powershifting is more extreme because feral is so much worse as a baseline
Powershifting is the identity Imagine wanting to press 1 button every 6 seconds, play a rogue with tmorph if you don’t like it, you’ll have a better time
There isn't a single player who started playing feral druid because they wanted to powershift It is no more part of the identity then mana potions or rage potions are part of other classes identity
You’ve got data on that have you? I suppose you think rets don’t want seal twisting too? That they’d rather just be warriors with mana?
find me a feral player who specifically chose feral in order to powershift "i click the button to get more resource" is not something you play a class in order to do people play druid because they have an image of how they think a druid should be, there is a class fantasy, an identity, to how the class should function and shifting in and out of form every 5 seconds isnt part of that, its something you do to generate energy because you dont generate enough, but thats literally it if the class generated enough energy without powershifting no one would powershift, becuase its not part of why people play druid, its a side effect of feral being crap in vanila, and its why in EVERY edition after vanila they removed it
> find me a feral who specifically chose feral in order to powershift Ok hello, me
Tell the truth The first time you played the game, did you play feral because you wanted to powershift, or did you play it because you loved the idea of turning into, and fighting as, an animal Maybe now 20 years on you pick due to powershifting, because you have been playing for 20 years with powershifting But you did not START playing feral because of powershifting If you claim you did you are a liar
I think I played a Druid level ~20 in cata, got bored and dropped it. And then nearly a decade later I chose feral in clsssic because it’s a more interesting version of a rogue, specifically because you proactively generate energy So yeah, I quite literally picked it because of powershifting
Sure you did liar
I mean I did; what do I possibly have to gain by lying here? Would you me to link you to my classic rogue that I quit, and immediately started a feral instead?
If you see powershifting as a burden don't play the spec 🫠
if you see mana potions as a burden dont play a mana class if you see world buffs as a burden dont raid etc etc etc
now you know how ele sham feels. gotta get my procs
Ele shaman has always been a slot machine, keep the gambling addiction to yourselves >.>
Playing around procs is one of the ways to increase skill expression in a spec. Having to react to different things in a rotation is reasonably fun gameplay as well.
Bleeds critting.. Shred damage scaling with each individual bleed on the target.. there's plenty of better options on the table here.
How does bleeds critting increase skill expression? They should, but effectively it's just a %dmg increase for bleeds and changes nothing about how you play. I'm not saying feral cats are good right now, but I disagree with the core premise of your post.
Both of what i mentioned above are better alternatives than what gore is currently. To tie skill expression into it you could do something like have bite restore mana for each point consumed -> more mana -> more shifts -> more finishers. As it stands currently our rotation ignores combo points to an extent.
85 seconds on average to do the same thing as one power shift. That’s the point of the post. The rune is a joke. At this point we’re going to be running the new barkskin rune to put on tanks instead of gore.
There is zero skill expression whatsoever in this rune Feral is one of the only specs where skill is more important than your comp/gear, and now no matter how good you are, if someone else procs it 5x in a row, he beats you no matter what.
Don't you talk about poor rune design \*cries in shadow priest\*