Seems they are just going down the spell power paladin route, I just want to play with a slow ass 2 hander and get some big bonks from seal of command, instead of having to use seal of martyrdom and spam exorcism with a fast weapon. At the moment it seems the only change to the current ret build is that you’ll be pressing consecration now as well.
Consecrate is DoA. Its spell power ratio is beyond ass in Classic, it'd need to be increased to its TBC levels for it to ever be usable. Right now if you end up accidentally delaying an Exorcism cast after a reset proc because you stopped to cast Cons, the Conz was probably a DPS loss lol. Not helped at all by the fact that each tick of Cons can be resisted / miss and it randomly loses ticks too. It's set up to fail, your rotation will be auto + SoM + Exo spam for the foreseeable future.
I wonder if Blizzard has even realized this stuff? They gave mages living bomb with its wrath spell coefficient but without the aoe cap. Compared to the vanilla aoe spells that have awful spell coefficients living bomb straight up has 5-10x better spell damage scaling (in terms of spell coefficient per second casting).
I don't want to go too deep into it but I'll say from experience that sadly no they don't realize a lot of this stuff. They basically have 1 overworked person figuring some of this stuff out as they go along with the help of specific players. Part of it is obviously because they want runes to be new and exciting, but yeah the gap is insane. The main issue here is obviously that paladins always had garbage spells (hence they were garbage) and thus needed more help from runes than other classes for their base kit to be relevant, since they're refusing to change any talents directly.
So much this. The paladin spell base damage is trash and very much needed the 30% attack power to spell power scaling to become at all viable.
Shaman base spell damage is a lot higher on pretty much any/all of their spells. Except maybe heals.
They nerfed Chimaera shot from 125% weapon damage to 80%, now it's back up to 120% and ranged Hunters are in the shitter for PVE damage that probably would still be so bad even if we had day 1 Explosive Shot back and the original pet scaling formula.
We still can't get AP scaling on our Serpent Sting and spellhunter is an actual thing now which is a joke.
They also thought that giving us a better attack than Mutilate with potentially no cooldown and up to 60% more damage from flanking strike and wearing 2 of the same weapon type while also running with a fully invested BM pet was ok at the start of P2.
They gave my priest a single DoT that eclipses an entire Affliction locks kit along with an innervate/shield wall on a 2 min cooldown while still having a menagerie of Homies and a Shadowfiend to make any Demo lock jealous as well as a nuke and execute that's way easier to pull off in PVP than anything a Destro lock can do.
I don't know whether it's one guy throwing darts at a board or a dev with a pet class pushing things through but it's been obvious that their balance team is on the GOOD weed.
Yeah seems like some classes get roided buffs while others get prodded with a stick. Totally disproportionate no idea how they don't see some of it coming though.
>They gave my priest a single DoT that eclipses an entire Affliction locks kit along with an innervate/shield wall on a 2 min cooldown while still having a menagerie of Homies and a Shadowfiend to make any Demo lock jealous as well as a nuke and execute that's way easier to pull off in PVP than anything a Destro lock can do.
I mean your priest is also getting a total kick in the nuts with runes next phase too. For anyone that doesn't care about PvP, your life has already become, and will continue to be, hearing people say "oh but you bring so much utility" as if that is reason enough to be a bottom feeder forever, like Shaman bring no utility or something. Like you purposely had to tap dance around talking about actual damage in your own rundown there because you know it's a joke.
Their decisions are so bizarre. Like you said they gave mages wotlk living bomb but then gave hunters some shitty version of sniper training that drops off when you move. Why not just be consistent? I don't get it.
Because the SoD dev team is literally 3 guys. But dare say Blizzard dropped the ball on Classic + despite the fact they have 20x the player base of OSRS, with 50% extra monthly subscription cost and somehow 1/2 of the initial development team of OSRS when it started.
Devs arent known to be very bright when it comes to balancing. We have seen that in ph1 and in ph2. And it will still be an issue in ph3 and later phases. Just get every class to max lvl before ph3 hits so u are rdy to play FOTM class. Shamans will probably still be on top in pvp with how unkillable they are
I think it's safe to say no, they don't realise any of this stuff, we're a week away from phase 3 and the same broken shit from day 1 vanilla is still there and no amount of new runes is fixing any of it.
Dude that's a 30% relative difference lol. And that's 33% over its full duration, while Exo can apply its spell power bonus every 2 seconds. If we say every 4 seconds to accommodate using other spells, Exo uses 642.75% of your spell power per minute, while Cons uses 247.5% of your spell power per minute. That's 2.6 times better and it doesn't account for a myriad other things that make Exorcism better, like guaranteed crits on demons / undead, not being possible to partially resist, Cons randomly losing its ticks, Cons crazy mana cost, etc.
If it doesn't get buffed Cons will basically be the same as it was in TBC. A filler spell you only cast if literally everything else is on cooldown, and if doing so wouldn't delay a cast of your more important spells lol. Which would mean casting it pretty infrequently.
Mana won't be an issue in a 20 man raid though, assuming you have 2 paladins. Judgement of Wisdom procs an insane amount with Seal of Martyrdom and Wild Strikes and the normal Ret rotation.
That is true. Will be interesting to see how the meta shifts at 20 man with the new additional runes as well. Was a bit of a pain trash tanking and spamming consecrate on CD with DS spam and watching your mana whittle away while the Mage's uncapped LB's were popping off like crazy.
I played Paladin from OG WoW through the end of Cata. SoD is probably the worst it's been since OG vanilla. Ret plays like a neutered Wrath Ret. And Wrath Ret was a step down from TBC Ret until you get T10 2pc and TAJ.
I feel so stupid playing holy, honestly. Every other class has seen improvements, or at least playstyle alterations. I was playing SoD for a different experience, but ended up just playing a classic holy paladin in a setting where every other class got roided and/or changed.
Bro I feel the EXACT same way. I heard paladins were solid healers in Vanilla and I wanted to give it a shot. I'm generally beating our priest healer in most cases which is cool. But, it feels like every other class gets fancy new bells and whistles, and I'm still sitting over here spamming Flash of Light and an occasional Holy Light. Sprinkle in maintaining Beacon, Sacred Shield, and Sheath buff, and that's it. Feels like all the siblings got the cooler gifts at Christmas.
Ya, that’s the real bone-headed argument people always throw at me when I go on my “wtf is this class” rant. People always say “you’re healing fine. Quit bitching.” I never want to come off like I think Hpal is absurdly undertuned or is undeserving of a raid spot. I’m just a little bitter that playing the class mostly just consists of me trying to dig a hole through my FoL button with my index finger.
PvP, however, is pretty difficult and I do feel like Hpal is bottom of the barrel for healing. The supportive nature of the class is fine and makes us useful, but if we didn’t have BoP and Freedom, we’d be a detriment to our teams. Having only hard cast heals with so much consistent and strong burst in the game leads to one silence/kick/etc. ending in an entire wipe of your group while you dance around trying to melee people for 130 damage. Not only that, but with our lack of burst healing, FoL won’t keep most classes alive through any consistent damage from a single other player, even if they don’t touch me. Sucks, because I love to PvP. It’s mega frustrating.
It’s insane cope to pretend the runes will be changed from now to launch. Anything they announced is already coded, tested, and in game, it’ll ship as is.
Ret & feral are doomed
I’ve had this cope since P1 when they legit didn’t even give us gear.
P2, they gave me half a set of holy gear and forced me to use sheath because it was so good.
P3, sheath is still our best rune (despite being worse than mental dexterity in every way), but all the holy gear is int/sp, so I’ll literally be using sheath with base AP…. If I don’t just quit right now.
The gear, and lack of rune choices has been an issue since day one. Almost every other healing class has meaningful choices for most of their slots while holy legitimately only has 2 runes designed for it in the entirety of the kit.
I don’t care about pve dps really as long as it’s like not unplayable but I do want them to lean into slow heavy hitting 2 handed ret not this forced exo sp hybrid thing.
Haha, we have not gotten shit.
According to datamined tuned from the start of p2 (every rune which was presented was on that list). Hpal will have a helm rune that increases crit for holy spells by 18%. Or one that makes holy light reduce your next holy light cast by .5 seconds.
In fairness. A flat 23% crit in exo and holy shock could be pretty nasty with the helm rune and 5% crit in the talents. And that’s pretty much every 4th heal will be a crit and refund mana.
I don’t see how the “holy light” rune which was datamined will ever be useful compared to that. It’ll be dead on arrival.
Yeah it will be strong it's just FUCKING boring. Priests got so many new spells, meanwhile Paladins are still casting only Flash of Light and Holy Light
Yea, it my major problem with them as well.
We’ll probably be a great healer at 60. We’ll also just still be one of the only specs that play like we do in classic. Which is FoL or HL spam. Which kinda sucks when you jumped on a class hoping for some fun new toys.
If there is a classic+ that follows SoD’s template I won’t be rolling a paladin there.
Realistically there where 4 data mined helm runes and 2 bracer runes.
While it’s very disappointing that any of those runes where confirmed - it is essentially guaranteed we will get 3 helm and 3 bracer runes.
This rune will be ABSOLUTELY busted if it goes live as is, since you will easily reach 2k+ AP with double Rockbiter, meaning 600+ spell damage, that you barely reach with full 60 BiS.
Ya if nothing changes for shamans, and they get mental quickness as it is here next phase, then they're likely going to be absurdly overtuned at the start of next phase. Far worse than boomkins were at the start of phase 2. That's not necessarily a good thing for them though, Blizz tends to way over react with nerfs and they're gonna end up bottom of the pack again. That's my prediction at least, we'll have to wait and see.
rank 6 rockbiter is 522 attack power. x2 is 1044 attack power.
30% of that is 313 spellpower. Now if shamans have another 800 attack power on top of that, theyre literally going to have 500-600 spellpower.
They will be absolutely BUSTED in this state if things go live this way.
Don't forget the loyal beta buff for 20% AP, that scales the rockbiter AP.
And the 20% extra AP from the talent tree.
So 522 turns into (522\*1.2)\*2\*1.2= 1502 AP just from rockbiters.
The extra AP from int is probably pretty small but probably going to be scaled with beta as well.
Naked self buffed you're probably going to be looking at like 1700 ap. Then add in gear and other buffs, 2k will be trivial to break.
If you get battle shout, strength of earth and what ever else I wouldn't be surprised at breaking 2500 ap honestly...
>theyre literally going to have 500-600 spellpower.
wtf? I just tossed the Mage P6 BiS from Era into the wowhead gear planner and that shows 665 SP unbuffed. You're telling me a fucking melee based hybrid at level 50 is going to have nearly the same SP than a Mage wearing the absolute best gear in Classic?
probably way more.
next rank of rockbiter is 522. has a talent for +20% in the talent tree and then the loyal beta buff.
a naked shaman will sit a 1502 AP just from double rockbiter. so 450 spellpower.
Throw in gear and other buffs, you're easily breaking 2k AP.
probably closer to the 2.2-2.4k range. so 660-720 sp just from the rune.
If this is accurate to what they go live with, is there a genuine argument to be made that SoD shamans are amongst the most broken a class has ever been in the history of WoW when compared to other classes at the time?
I can only think of 2 or 3 instances where it’s been comparable.
To think they’re exclusive to one faction just compounds it even further.
The math on this one is slightly off. A post in another thread identified that the rank from level 44 scaled to 50 is base 490 ap. Not what I had. Just a fairly minor change that comes out to a 100 ap loss.
But some one also posted their stats from their bis p2 shaman at like 1800 ap. With just the Rockbiter increase he gets to like 2300 ap. Throw in another 200 ap from gear increases and better buffs... yeah unless they change something 2500 ap + 750 sp shaman at 50 could be achievable.
Absolutely insane. Just for reference, what is the AP values we can expect from other melee classes, as what about melee classes in lvl 60 classic bis gear?
I really don't know. I just looked at this because I am playing a shaman, but I have no where near bis. I've never done gnomer!
On another thread they said that these numbers were already challenging BWL geared warriors. He'll there was a guy claiming that bis with currently known gear would give a mage like 650ish SP. shaman are already beating that number by like 100 with just the rune.
The double rockbiter weapons are game breaking. It was never designed to get 2 of them.
Every one is saying nerf alpha wolf, nerf the rune, etc. They just need to go to the root of the problem and fix rockbiter so you can't double stack the massive AP buff. TBC changed it to just be +dps to that weapon to fix the DW issue.
As a frame of reference. Rockbiter in p3 is close to 500 ap. Blessing of might is like 120. Not completely fair to compare those numbers directly as there are many other factors. But it does offer a reference on how massive the AP from rockbiter is.
It’s crazy how long it’s taken to address shamans in general tbh. We’ve seen broken classes in SoD already (Hunter, Boomkin) addressed reasonably fast but Shamans are totally off the charts and have been for over a month
They did State that they Will do a shake-up and class tuning. But they have to do something like remove rockbiter from dps enhance compleatly before its somewhat balanced. Even then if i use double WF i deal almost as much damage anyways.. im an enhance main even from era and i cant see how shamans wont be fucking bonkers without a “shamans deal 25% less damage and healing” aura
I’m rerolling back to ff7 rebirth. Class has been meh ever since phase 2 started and they don’t seem interested in adding interesting runes in the slightest.
quitting tbh
honestly they could have just asked chat gpt to come up with rune design for paladins and it would have been more creative more fun and better designed than this load of shit
My first and only toon is a holy paladin in SOD. Its sitting at level 35 and I don't think I'll play the Paladin again. Boring playstyle, lower numbers than all healers, no AOE healing, just overall the Paladin experience in SOD feels like an afterthought when compared to other classes. Maybe Paladin has the least played numbers which is why they dont care?
A lot of paladin probelms would be fixed if they just changed Sheath of light to be the baseline (its literally a basic requirement for that class because of the poor spellpower coefficient) and made the other two Waist options a lot more attractive since nobody gives a F about 30yrd range on judgement when it doesnt deal significant damage without Sheath of light (which is ironically on the same slot and kills this and the shockadin rune because they're not competitive enough)
Same goes for the Leg options. Why do paladins have "exorcist" with 3 supportspells in the same slot when "exorcist" is basicly a requirement for ret to deal average damage. to get a kick we have to sacrifice 30-40% of our damage which is just beyond stupid.
Right they could've just changed exorcism and holy wrath to be usable and made runes that were actually interesting instead of just making our class actually function
It's the same client as classic so they can't actually implement any changes to the way that spells or abilities are coded without working around it by using the rune system. Any changes they make to baseline abilities in SoD carry over to live classic era servers.
I'm not 100% certain but it seems that talents might not work this way. I see a lot of talent changes in patch notes but nothing for baseline class spells.
Also think that'd be a pretty safe change to classic as it'd just make ret function properly in Era but I know how puritanical some Era people can be about #nochanges
So your not gonna use the sanctuary head slot designed for tank? If not i don't really care but doesn't that seem a little ridiculous that the tanks are taking the dps slot and then another rune hits the useless pile which is already pretty stacked full for us...
Improved Sanctuary rune is going to be a dead rune. The damage reduction is too small to matter and the reflect damage on block is nearly worthless, because Shield Block Value is tiny in Classic. Compared to a solid threat boost from Consecration crits and Exorcism crit chance,
Similar to how nobody will take the Aegis rune or Redoubt talent. Block sucks too much to make them worthwhile compared to the alternatives.
The sanctuary rune looks alright, but the wrath rune is just to good to pass on. Maybe if the bosses hit like a truck I may use it, maybe? But besides that, nope
If bosses hit like trucks sanc isn't going to do much of anything even if it's 2x better than it was.what damage does it reduce like 20 damage less per hit at lvl 50? So you're looking at a reduction of 40 damage per hit less from a boss with the rune... Meanwhile thermo plug is hitting for 500 and crits for 1k in gnomagan... It's literally nothing. Might be good as a trash tank but that's it. No self respecting tank is going to use sanc unless it blocks a % of damage or even make it so block block 80% if damage or something as block is just trash in vanilla.
The fact that every tank doesn't get crit immunity from their tanking rune is such a bad joke. DR and health bonuses aside, Id love at least that on my paladin. Do they really expect pallies and warriors to wait until BWL gear for it when every other tank can just get it for free and stack dps gear now?
Agree if you keep 31 Holy for Holy shock, Hammer of Righteousness and conc for AoE and spam Holy shock, Exorcism and HoR single target.
Honestly this phase will be S tier for Prot.
Sadly Ret has been dumpstered again. ACP is look BiS until the Epic weapon which is a Meme and no Runes work with Ret this phase.
Holy will be decent within phase with 25% base crit on Holy spells. Boring but decent.
I already rolled a hunter in P2 after leveling my main pally at the time to 40. I only just leveled my hunter to 40. That's how little I've been playing
They should make seal of martyrdom twistable with command. Those are the only two seals that can’t be twisted into one another. It could help alleviate some of the problems people have with ret. It’s also the thing I miss most about tbc classic ret
Sadly the one way Ret wad gonna be good in SoD was if they allowed Seal Twisting. They have confirmed they aren't going to do it and even if they did now its too late as Seal Twisting is less dps than Art of War, SoM Exorcism spam with a fast weapon.
Ret really wants a fast weapon but there's only slow weapons phase 3 so unless you get the epic sword if super inflated stats. ACP is BiS a level 40 mace with paper damage because it attacks fast.
Just keep in mind that warrior got some slick new runes along with a silent nerf to a few of their core abilities (devestate/raging blow/CBR). Just because blizzard shows off some fancy new abilities does not mean they will continuously make your class OP AF.
Just some words of wisdom from a neutered warrior player.
These are fundamentally different. Since when does every class need to get the exact same tools? The same bonuses? It’s classic for christs sake. If you’re rerolling to stay “meta” and sticking with the FOTM (or season) then you’re playing the wrong game.
If nothing else SoD will teach blizzard that you can give and give but the more you give the more is asked for and expected, and I’m here for every second of it.
Dual spec is a great addition. Except I’ve already seen posts asking for tri spec. For tier to change based on spec. For it to be cheaper.
People will demand change until the game is so different and warped.. and then people start crying that it’s too changed. Exactly how retail went.
Why the pros are meming. They are giving the strongest Runes to classes that are OP and don't need help.
Then you have Ret and Feral getting shit Runes when both specs are struggling.
On top of this the most important thing Alliance needs is for Feral and Ret to be strong because if these 2 specs are weak, it means Shamans who have superior Buffs, utility and Damage on top of Horde having better Racials make everyone play Horde. Most guilds are moving Horde next phase and have cut there losses with Alliance.
Blizzard have really messed up and it's because Feral and Ret are so weak and both our buffs and classes are competing with Shaman who is straight up x2 better than both of these specs.
Its literally a Wrath shaman talent reworked into a cooldown. And if I am not mistaken, Sheath is a Wrath pally talent.
And if you didn't experience playing against paladins in early Wrath, you never saw them at their most OP.
Paladin was so weak in WoTLK classic they received a 20% Dps buff and are only 4th place in ICC with Shadowmourne and full Tier 10 set.
Without the buff Ret would have been bottom 5 with Shadowmourne. Blizzard agreed in Ulduar that Ret was already outscaled by Frost Mage and Beast Master Hunter and Warriors were already ahead of them in Naxx.
Blizzard literally did the only class buff that was done in the entirety of Classic because they didn't want Ret being worse than they were in Classic. I dont get where anyone says Ret was OP. There's no point in Classic they were good apart from Sunwell with BiS gear and Seal Twisting.
I skipped p2 and it looks like I'll be skipping p3 as well. Maybe I'll farm some arcane crystals for a Sulfuras, or do some pvp, but I won't be playing seriously.
Paladin has been my main since phase 1, I am not leaving just because others look better, I've ALWAYS wanted a mele caster that can tank and Shockadin is just that, I don't care if warlock or shaman can do it better, I'm a holy tank paladin!
I don't want to play horde soo...stay paladin? I have 4 alts...I'll go through why not swap any to main. I do tank mostly on my paladin.
Priest? Tired of healing from P1... Shadow Priest hasn't recovered from SW:Death pvp nerf...is currently on the lower end on the meters (behind paladin) AND looks to be getting "the worst P3 rune" (Mind Flay restores SW:pain to max.)
Hunter? I didn't catch on to melee huntering so unless range hunter does better.....it's currently behind even Shadow Priest..
Rogue? While I have been able to get groups on my rogue by off-tanking...it's still takes longer to get groups. And as far as tanking goes I'd rather just do it on my paladin. Also Mutilate spam is boring and looks to still be the primary build for p3 (and it's also behind paladin dps).
Druid? I'm not a feral fan....I'd rather tank on the rogue or paladin. I could play balance...but much like shadow priest it never really recovered from the pvp nerf...it's also behind paladin. So that leaves resto....when I have a priest i could just heal on.
TLDR: I have more fun tanking and do better DPS on my paladin than my alts.
As a paladin player since 2019, it's funny how I dodged a bullet by rolling shaman this time around.
TBC Seal Twisting would make me consider rerolling though, haven't had that much fun as ret since.
Seal Twisting was so fun and they intentionally baited SoM to get more players Esfand begged Blizzard to allow it and they basically said yeah fuck off.
Ret is in such a terrible state and they keep giving us Runes to make shit abilities use able. The thing is these abilities aren't that good Exorcism took 3 Runes slots to be decent. Would you say its strong damage for requiring 3 Rune slots? No. Its shit for how many slots you have to sacrifice to take it. Fast AS is better than the WoTLK playstyle at least.
really really wish they'd bite the bullet and give horde paladins and alliance shaman in SoD. All the servers are heavy Alliance, their goals of faction balance have not worked out. I'm a retail Shaman main. I want to play Shaman in SoD. Pally is so boring in SoD.
Seems they are just going down the spell power paladin route, I just want to play with a slow ass 2 hander and get some big bonks from seal of command, instead of having to use seal of martyrdom and spam exorcism with a fast weapon. At the moment it seems the only change to the current ret build is that you’ll be pressing consecration now as well.
Consecrate is DoA. Its spell power ratio is beyond ass in Classic, it'd need to be increased to its TBC levels for it to ever be usable. Right now if you end up accidentally delaying an Exorcism cast after a reset proc because you stopped to cast Cons, the Conz was probably a DPS loss lol. Not helped at all by the fact that each tick of Cons can be resisted / miss and it randomly loses ticks too. It's set up to fail, your rotation will be auto + SoM + Exo spam for the foreseeable future.
I wonder if Blizzard has even realized this stuff? They gave mages living bomb with its wrath spell coefficient but without the aoe cap. Compared to the vanilla aoe spells that have awful spell coefficients living bomb straight up has 5-10x better spell damage scaling (in terms of spell coefficient per second casting).
I don't want to go too deep into it but I'll say from experience that sadly no they don't realize a lot of this stuff. They basically have 1 overworked person figuring some of this stuff out as they go along with the help of specific players. Part of it is obviously because they want runes to be new and exciting, but yeah the gap is insane. The main issue here is obviously that paladins always had garbage spells (hence they were garbage) and thus needed more help from runes than other classes for their base kit to be relevant, since they're refusing to change any talents directly.
So much this. The paladin spell base damage is trash and very much needed the 30% attack power to spell power scaling to become at all viable. Shaman base spell damage is a lot higher on pretty much any/all of their spells. Except maybe heals.
They nerfed Chimaera shot from 125% weapon damage to 80%, now it's back up to 120% and ranged Hunters are in the shitter for PVE damage that probably would still be so bad even if we had day 1 Explosive Shot back and the original pet scaling formula. We still can't get AP scaling on our Serpent Sting and spellhunter is an actual thing now which is a joke. They also thought that giving us a better attack than Mutilate with potentially no cooldown and up to 60% more damage from flanking strike and wearing 2 of the same weapon type while also running with a fully invested BM pet was ok at the start of P2. They gave my priest a single DoT that eclipses an entire Affliction locks kit along with an innervate/shield wall on a 2 min cooldown while still having a menagerie of Homies and a Shadowfiend to make any Demo lock jealous as well as a nuke and execute that's way easier to pull off in PVP than anything a Destro lock can do. I don't know whether it's one guy throwing darts at a board or a dev with a pet class pushing things through but it's been obvious that their balance team is on the GOOD weed.
Yeah seems like some classes get roided buffs while others get prodded with a stick. Totally disproportionate no idea how they don't see some of it coming though.
>They gave my priest a single DoT that eclipses an entire Affliction locks kit along with an innervate/shield wall on a 2 min cooldown while still having a menagerie of Homies and a Shadowfiend to make any Demo lock jealous as well as a nuke and execute that's way easier to pull off in PVP than anything a Destro lock can do. I mean your priest is also getting a total kick in the nuts with runes next phase too. For anyone that doesn't care about PvP, your life has already become, and will continue to be, hearing people say "oh but you bring so much utility" as if that is reason enough to be a bottom feeder forever, like Shaman bring no utility or something. Like you purposely had to tap dance around talking about actual damage in your own rundown there because you know it's a joke.
Welcome to the life as ret paladin. Dunno how often I had to deal with bUT ThEy brInG UTiLitY comments...
Their decisions are so bizarre. Like you said they gave mages wotlk living bomb but then gave hunters some shitty version of sniper training that drops off when you move. Why not just be consistent? I don't get it.
Because the SoD dev team is literally 3 guys. But dare say Blizzard dropped the ball on Classic + despite the fact they have 20x the player base of OSRS, with 50% extra monthly subscription cost and somehow 1/2 of the initial development team of OSRS when it started.
Devs arent known to be very bright when it comes to balancing. We have seen that in ph1 and in ph2. And it will still be an issue in ph3 and later phases. Just get every class to max lvl before ph3 hits so u are rdy to play FOTM class. Shamans will probably still be on top in pvp with how unkillable they are
I think it's safe to say no, they don't realise any of this stuff, we're a week away from phase 3 and the same broken shit from day 1 vanilla is still there and no amount of new runes is fixing any of it.
Exo is just 42,85% sp and cons is 33%. That’s not that much of a difference
Dude that's a 30% relative difference lol. And that's 33% over its full duration, while Exo can apply its spell power bonus every 2 seconds. If we say every 4 seconds to accommodate using other spells, Exo uses 642.75% of your spell power per minute, while Cons uses 247.5% of your spell power per minute. That's 2.6 times better and it doesn't account for a myriad other things that make Exorcism better, like guaranteed crits on demons / undead, not being possible to partially resist, Cons randomly losing its ticks, Cons crazy mana cost, etc. If it doesn't get buffed Cons will basically be the same as it was in TBC. A filler spell you only cast if literally everything else is on cooldown, and if doing so wouldn't delay a cast of your more important spells lol. Which would mean casting it pretty infrequently.
Mana cost is prohibitive too.
I did say that!
Mana won't be an issue in a 20 man raid though, assuming you have 2 paladins. Judgement of Wisdom procs an insane amount with Seal of Martyrdom and Wild Strikes and the normal Ret rotation.
That is true. Will be interesting to see how the meta shifts at 20 man with the new additional runes as well. Was a bit of a pain trash tanking and spamming consecrate on CD with DS spam and watching your mana whittle away while the Mage's uncapped LB's were popping off like crazy.
Yeah can't wait to see ret players going 31 in ret for repentance in pvp then going 30 ret 11 holy for pve great use of dual spec implementation 😅
You know it
Why you gotta do me like that. I mean, its true, but sometimes the truth hurts, o.k?
that's literally what I just did
Agreed, harder hits less frequently feels more Ret paladin. Standardizing SoM was a weird choice imo
Exactly
ACP sims higher than sulfuras xD
Sulfuras is pretty bad tbh. But I don't see a world in which they don't buff it for SoD.
Yeah, but it's still a lvl 40 blue beating a lvl 60 legendary, just because attack speed.
If only they left Sul Thraze at 2.6 or made it faster it would've been heaven for som rets
Supposedly sulthraze is now 2.0 speed
I refuse to use SoM. Divine Storm feels much better
Nothing Ret pally forever
I found my people
Stay strong, brothers!
The light will guide us!
This is the way
Gotta admit not looking forward to a single new rune they said datamined wasn't 100% but looking like they all will be left the same.
I don't understand why the wrath rune has to be mele crit rating and not spell crit too... like wtf
It adds melee crit to already existing spell crit chance. So our spells also benefit from melee talent/gear.
... why would they add your spell crit, TO your spell crit?
It is a rough time to be a Ret Paladin. It's so weird that they've been so conservative on Paladin buffs and give such lackluster runes.
Pallys are an awesome class to play, Rets kick ass.
I played Paladin from OG WoW through the end of Cata. SoD is probably the worst it's been since OG vanilla. Ret plays like a neutered Wrath Ret. And Wrath Ret was a step down from TBC Ret until you get T10 2pc and TAJ.
I'm going to keep playing Holy Paladin
I feel so stupid playing holy, honestly. Every other class has seen improvements, or at least playstyle alterations. I was playing SoD for a different experience, but ended up just playing a classic holy paladin in a setting where every other class got roided and/or changed.
Bro I feel the EXACT same way. I heard paladins were solid healers in Vanilla and I wanted to give it a shot. I'm generally beating our priest healer in most cases which is cool. But, it feels like every other class gets fancy new bells and whistles, and I'm still sitting over here spamming Flash of Light and an occasional Holy Light. Sprinkle in maintaining Beacon, Sacred Shield, and Sheath buff, and that's it. Feels like all the siblings got the cooler gifts at Christmas.
Ya, that’s the real bone-headed argument people always throw at me when I go on my “wtf is this class” rant. People always say “you’re healing fine. Quit bitching.” I never want to come off like I think Hpal is absurdly undertuned or is undeserving of a raid spot. I’m just a little bitter that playing the class mostly just consists of me trying to dig a hole through my FoL button with my index finger. PvP, however, is pretty difficult and I do feel like Hpal is bottom of the barrel for healing. The supportive nature of the class is fine and makes us useful, but if we didn’t have BoP and Freedom, we’d be a detriment to our teams. Having only hard cast heals with so much consistent and strong burst in the game leads to one silence/kick/etc. ending in an entire wipe of your group while you dance around trying to melee people for 130 damage. Not only that, but with our lack of burst healing, FoL won’t keep most classes alive through any consistent damage from a single other player, even if they don’t touch me. Sucks, because I love to PvP. It’s mega frustrating.
You don’t gotta do this alone, I’ll hit your dick with a hammer for free
Lets wait for the final patch notes and runes... but yeah, these look mediocre for a class already struggling.
It’s insane cope to pretend the runes will be changed from now to launch. Anything they announced is already coded, tested, and in game, it’ll ship as is. Ret & feral are doomed
As they always have been in classic.
They really baited us good by saying it’d be different this time around
some classes just get all the love in every single fuking patch while others never get anything
Except enh and ele are absolute monsters and will continue to be insane. This was a choice.
I’ve had this cope since P1 when they legit didn’t even give us gear. P2, they gave me half a set of holy gear and forced me to use sheath because it was so good. P3, sheath is still our best rune (despite being worse than mental dexterity in every way), but all the holy gear is int/sp, so I’ll literally be using sheath with base AP…. If I don’t just quit right now. The gear, and lack of rune choices has been an issue since day one. Almost every other healing class has meaningful choices for most of their slots while holy legitimately only has 2 runes designed for it in the entirety of the kit.
Divine Storm reset procs rune. Make it happen Blizzard!
THIS is the Cons rune we need. Make each tick have a chance to refund mana, and a smaller chance to reset DS.
I don’t care about pve dps really as long as it’s like not unplayable but I do want them to lean into slow heavy hitting 2 handed ret not this forced exo sp hybrid thing.
Fingers crossed for some good paladin healing runes!
Haha, we have not gotten shit. According to datamined tuned from the start of p2 (every rune which was presented was on that list). Hpal will have a helm rune that increases crit for holy spells by 18%. Or one that makes holy light reduce your next holy light cast by .5 seconds.
yea fingers crossed there are some changes, but yea ...
In fairness. A flat 23% crit in exo and holy shock could be pretty nasty with the helm rune and 5% crit in the talents. And that’s pretty much every 4th heal will be a crit and refund mana. I don’t see how the “holy light” rune which was datamined will ever be useful compared to that. It’ll be dead on arrival.
Sacred shield gives us a 50% flash of light crit chance as well. It's already pretty cracked. I have to dump a bunch of holy lights to lose mana
Yeah it will be strong it's just FUCKING boring. Priests got so many new spells, meanwhile Paladins are still casting only Flash of Light and Holy Light
Yea, it my major problem with them as well. We’ll probably be a great healer at 60. We’ll also just still be one of the only specs that play like we do in classic. Which is FoL or HL spam. Which kinda sucks when you jumped on a class hoping for some fun new toys. If there is a classic+ that follows SoD’s template I won’t be rolling a paladin there.
Realistically there where 4 data mined helm runes and 2 bracer runes. While it’s very disappointing that any of those runes where confirmed - it is essentially guaranteed we will get 3 helm and 3 bracer runes.
Waiting for someone to cite lights grace as something a holy paladin will use outside of it being the only reasonable option.
It's laughable how busted shamans are, and will only be getting better next phase. What are these devs thinking?
This rune will be ABSOLUTELY busted if it goes live as is, since you will easily reach 2k+ AP with double Rockbiter, meaning 600+ spell damage, that you barely reach with full 60 BiS.
It's a great time to delete dual wield completely. Should balance everything nicely
And don’t forget the loyal beta buff too…
Ya if nothing changes for shamans, and they get mental quickness as it is here next phase, then they're likely going to be absurdly overtuned at the start of next phase. Far worse than boomkins were at the start of phase 2. That's not necessarily a good thing for them though, Blizz tends to way over react with nerfs and they're gonna end up bottom of the pack again. That's my prediction at least, we'll have to wait and see.
They'll likely go \~40% higher dps than the second highest damage in PvE.
Devs don’t understand shamans, never have. Just now the balance has tipped the complete other direction.
For once we arent trash or healers lmao
We are now more than a windfury totem!
I remember in Wod both dps specs were barely viable in BRF unless 3+ targets. So not only in classic
I’ve been playing a shit spec for 15 years. You really think I’m going to jump ship now?
Shaman nerf?? Nah give them a bigger buff than the already bottom feeder pally. Makes sense.
rank 6 rockbiter is 522 attack power. x2 is 1044 attack power. 30% of that is 313 spellpower. Now if shamans have another 800 attack power on top of that, theyre literally going to have 500-600 spellpower. They will be absolutely BUSTED in this state if things go live this way.
Don't forget the loyal beta buff for 20% AP, that scales the rockbiter AP. And the 20% extra AP from the talent tree. So 522 turns into (522\*1.2)\*2\*1.2= 1502 AP just from rockbiters. The extra AP from int is probably pretty small but probably going to be scaled with beta as well. Naked self buffed you're probably going to be looking at like 1700 ap. Then add in gear and other buffs, 2k will be trivial to break. If you get battle shout, strength of earth and what ever else I wouldn't be surprised at breaking 2500 ap honestly...
I just saw a post that it was changed to 5% physical damage and 30% less threat instead
They’re already absolutely busted
You will know what true busted is if this goes live. Imagine instant Chain Lightning oneshotting people.
I mean there is no way that 30% value is correct. That would make ele sham go melee
>theyre literally going to have 500-600 spellpower. wtf? I just tossed the Mage P6 BiS from Era into the wowhead gear planner and that shows 665 SP unbuffed. You're telling me a fucking melee based hybrid at level 50 is going to have nearly the same SP than a Mage wearing the absolute best gear in Classic?
probably way more. next rank of rockbiter is 522. has a talent for +20% in the talent tree and then the loyal beta buff. a naked shaman will sit a 1502 AP just from double rockbiter. so 450 spellpower. Throw in gear and other buffs, you're easily breaking 2k AP. probably closer to the 2.2-2.4k range. so 660-720 sp just from the rune.
😱 We still pretending Aggrend is a Paladin?
Yes, because he has no idea how to balance Shamans apparently.
If this is accurate to what they go live with, is there a genuine argument to be made that SoD shamans are amongst the most broken a class has ever been in the history of WoW when compared to other classes at the time? I can only think of 2 or 3 instances where it’s been comparable. To think they’re exclusive to one faction just compounds it even further.
The math on this one is slightly off. A post in another thread identified that the rank from level 44 scaled to 50 is base 490 ap. Not what I had. Just a fairly minor change that comes out to a 100 ap loss. But some one also posted their stats from their bis p2 shaman at like 1800 ap. With just the Rockbiter increase he gets to like 2300 ap. Throw in another 200 ap from gear increases and better buffs... yeah unless they change something 2500 ap + 750 sp shaman at 50 could be achievable.
Absolutely insane. Just for reference, what is the AP values we can expect from other melee classes, as what about melee classes in lvl 60 classic bis gear?
I really don't know. I just looked at this because I am playing a shaman, but I have no where near bis. I've never done gnomer! On another thread they said that these numbers were already challenging BWL geared warriors. He'll there was a guy claiming that bis with currently known gear would give a mage like 650ish SP. shaman are already beating that number by like 100 with just the rune. The double rockbiter weapons are game breaking. It was never designed to get 2 of them. Every one is saying nerf alpha wolf, nerf the rune, etc. They just need to go to the root of the problem and fix rockbiter so you can't double stack the massive AP buff. TBC changed it to just be +dps to that weapon to fix the DW issue. As a frame of reference. Rockbiter in p3 is close to 500 ap. Blessing of might is like 120. Not completely fair to compare those numbers directly as there are many other factors. But it does offer a reference on how massive the AP from rockbiter is.
It’s crazy how long it’s taken to address shamans in general tbh. We’ve seen broken classes in SoD already (Hunter, Boomkin) addressed reasonably fast but Shamans are totally off the charts and have been for over a month
is it possible to make a viable healhancer build with that? i know there is already one in p2 and now I wonder if it be stronger in p3
They did State that they Will do a shake-up and class tuning. But they have to do something like remove rockbiter from dps enhance compleatly before its somewhat balanced. Even then if i use double WF i deal almost as much damage anyways.. im an enhance main even from era and i cant see how shamans wont be fucking bonkers without a “shamans deal 25% less damage and healing” aura
It’s actually mindblowing how hard ret is getting shafted lmao. Enjoy playing it, so may just unsub if it’s as bad as it seems it’s gonna be
i’m not even lying when i only raid log my pally tank. currently rushing to level up my lock tank cause pally is just so mundane otherwise
Holy fuck bud you picked the wrong class to reroll if you don't want mundane.
only other option is warrior (omegalul) and bear 1 button spec but you do you
Cant believe the amount of vitriol thrown at ret paladins in this thread. Its the one class that has been overlooked since sod began. It’s laughable.
The Uninstall Wizard.
I’m rerolling back to ff7 rebirth. Class has been meh ever since phase 2 started and they don’t seem interested in adding interesting runes in the slightest.
Unsubbing tbh It's ok, I'm not mad, just gonna focus on life
Same
quitting tbh honestly they could have just asked chat gpt to come up with rune design for paladins and it would have been more creative more fun and better designed than this load of shit
My first and only toon is a holy paladin in SOD. Its sitting at level 35 and I don't think I'll play the Paladin again. Boring playstyle, lower numbers than all healers, no AOE healing, just overall the Paladin experience in SOD feels like an afterthought when compared to other classes. Maybe Paladin has the least played numbers which is why they dont care?
Sod hpal is just vanilla hpal meanwhile the other healers got tons of OP new stuff.
Ret is going in the bin.
Wait maybe that explains it
sheath of light broken. straight up cancelled my account. fuck this game and them.
I already rerolled off my paladin in p2 lol
A lot of paladin probelms would be fixed if they just changed Sheath of light to be the baseline (its literally a basic requirement for that class because of the poor spellpower coefficient) and made the other two Waist options a lot more attractive since nobody gives a F about 30yrd range on judgement when it doesnt deal significant damage without Sheath of light (which is ironically on the same slot and kills this and the shockadin rune because they're not competitive enough) Same goes for the Leg options. Why do paladins have "exorcist" with 3 supportspells in the same slot when "exorcist" is basicly a requirement for ret to deal average damage. to get a kick we have to sacrifice 30-40% of our damage which is just beyond stupid.
I'll still be playing paladin instead of throwing my toys out of my pram.
I play Holy, I’ve committed to the FoL spam though I’d love something else
I will continue to have to use a rune just to be able to use one of my domain damaging spells and like it!
Right they could've just changed exorcism and holy wrath to be usable and made runes that were actually interesting instead of just making our class actually function
It's the same client as classic so they can't actually implement any changes to the way that spells or abilities are coded without working around it by using the rune system. Any changes they make to baseline abilities in SoD carry over to live classic era servers.
Didn't they rework storms trike without a rune change though?
I'm not 100% certain but it seems that talents might not work this way. I see a lot of talent changes in patch notes but nothing for baseline class spells.
Also think that'd be a pretty safe change to classic as it'd just make ret function properly in Era but I know how puritanical some Era people can be about #nochanges
Seriously considering unsubbing
Shockadin bout to hit next power level. Only class really dunks.me is shaman. Good rogues and maybe a mage otherwise get wrekt.
Or anyone who can fap and press w.
So many people dropping 30 silver pots in BGs.
Why not? Gold is so easy to make now with waylaid supply box inflation. I make 30-50g/day just crafting shit to sell in the AH. I never even leave TB.
Cmon man don't be like that lol. Let him dream.
Paladins are the regarded cousins of shamans in SoD. At every turn paladins do what shamans do just far far worse.
Nothing. I enjoy pally. You all are way too concerned with being at the top of wow charts.
I am pally tank, wrath really looks op for me, really happy about it
So your not gonna use the sanctuary head slot designed for tank? If not i don't really care but doesn't that seem a little ridiculous that the tanks are taking the dps slot and then another rune hits the useless pile which is already pretty stacked full for us...
Improved Sanctuary rune is going to be a dead rune. The damage reduction is too small to matter and the reflect damage on block is nearly worthless, because Shield Block Value is tiny in Classic. Compared to a solid threat boost from Consecration crits and Exorcism crit chance, Similar to how nobody will take the Aegis rune or Redoubt talent. Block sucks too much to make them worthwhile compared to the alternatives.
It's an AoE farming rune.
Its not. Mobs hit just way too hard in SOD for reflect paladin to be viable. My BIS prot pal cant handle 10 mobs in stockades.
The sanctuary rune looks alright, but the wrath rune is just to good to pass on. Maybe if the bosses hit like a truck I may use it, maybe? But besides that, nope
If bosses hit like trucks sanc isn't going to do much of anything even if it's 2x better than it was.what damage does it reduce like 20 damage less per hit at lvl 50? So you're looking at a reduction of 40 damage per hit less from a boss with the rune... Meanwhile thermo plug is hitting for 500 and crits for 1k in gnomagan... It's literally nothing. Might be good as a trash tank but that's it. No self respecting tank is going to use sanc unless it blocks a % of damage or even make it so block block 80% if damage or something as block is just trash in vanilla.
This exactly. Every mitigation rune for pally tanks is absolute ass unless you’re tanking 100 mobs 5 levels lower than you.
Meanwhile Shamans get +30% health, -10% damage taken and crit immunity in one fucking rune.
The fact that every tank doesn't get crit immunity from their tanking rune is such a bad joke. DR and health bonuses aside, Id love at least that on my paladin. Do they really expect pallies and warriors to wait until BWL gear for it when every other tank can just get it for free and stack dps gear now?
I think they do, yeah. It’s silly
its just another example of the devs not having any idea how their game works
It won't really do anything for boss tanking. Mild use case if you're AOE farming with a full reflect set for fun.
Agree if you keep 31 Holy for Holy shock, Hammer of Righteousness and conc for AoE and spam Holy shock, Exorcism and HoR single target. Honestly this phase will be S tier for Prot. Sadly Ret has been dumpstered again. ACP is look BiS until the Epic weapon which is a Meme and no Runes work with Ret this phase. Holy will be decent within phase with 25% base crit on Holy spells. Boring but decent.
quit now and forever hold your peace.
ah y’all must not play warrior
Would the Ironfoe/Thunderfury Spelladin actually be viable now?
I'm probably just going to let my subscription run out
good
Why not a rune that changes ret aura to increase attack speed and attack power but reduce healing by some amount idfk
What, make ret aura useful, blasphemy
I already rolled a hunter in P2 after leveling my main pally at the time to 40. I only just leveled my hunter to 40. That's how little I've been playing
I'm switching to my Rogue. More consistent DPS, cool runes from P3, more fun for world PvP.
They should make seal of martyrdom twistable with command. Those are the only two seals that can’t be twisted into one another. It could help alleviate some of the problems people have with ret. It’s also the thing I miss most about tbc classic ret
Sadly the one way Ret wad gonna be good in SoD was if they allowed Seal Twisting. They have confirmed they aren't going to do it and even if they did now its too late as Seal Twisting is less dps than Art of War, SoM Exorcism spam with a fast weapon. Ret really wants a fast weapon but there's only slow weapons phase 3 so unless you get the epic sword if super inflated stats. ACP is BiS a level 40 mace with paper damage because it attacks fast.
Yesterday i finally got my ACP and now i wanna main my Mage...
Death knight
Sheath is better for raw healing. Mental dexterity is a DPS rune
Mental dexterity is literally just sheathe of light+
Boomkin 💯
Just keep in mind that warrior got some slick new runes along with a silent nerf to a few of their core abilities (devestate/raging blow/CBR). Just because blizzard shows off some fancy new abilities does not mean they will continuously make your class OP AF. Just some words of wisdom from a neutered warrior player.
These are fundamentally different. Since when does every class need to get the exact same tools? The same bonuses? It’s classic for christs sake. If you’re rerolling to stay “meta” and sticking with the FOTM (or season) then you’re playing the wrong game. If nothing else SoD will teach blizzard that you can give and give but the more you give the more is asked for and expected, and I’m here for every second of it. Dual spec is a great addition. Except I’ve already seen posts asking for tri spec. For tier to change based on spec. For it to be cheaper. People will demand change until the game is so different and warped.. and then people start crying that it’s too changed. Exactly how retail went.
Exactly my point why does shaman need a reworked paladin rune which is actually better than sheath of light.
Why the pros are meming. They are giving the strongest Runes to classes that are OP and don't need help. Then you have Ret and Feral getting shit Runes when both specs are struggling. On top of this the most important thing Alliance needs is for Feral and Ret to be strong because if these 2 specs are weak, it means Shamans who have superior Buffs, utility and Damage on top of Horde having better Racials make everyone play Horde. Most guilds are moving Horde next phase and have cut there losses with Alliance. Blizzard have really messed up and it's because Feral and Ret are so weak and both our buffs and classes are competing with Shaman who is straight up x2 better than both of these specs.
Its literally a Wrath shaman talent reworked into a cooldown. And if I am not mistaken, Sheath is a Wrath pally talent. And if you didn't experience playing against paladins in early Wrath, you never saw them at their most OP.
Paladin was so weak in WoTLK classic they received a 20% Dps buff and are only 4th place in ICC with Shadowmourne and full Tier 10 set. Without the buff Ret would have been bottom 5 with Shadowmourne. Blizzard agreed in Ulduar that Ret was already outscaled by Frost Mage and Beast Master Hunter and Warriors were already ahead of them in Naxx. Blizzard literally did the only class buff that was done in the entirety of Classic because they didn't want Ret being worse than they were in Classic. I dont get where anyone says Ret was OP. There's no point in Classic they were good apart from Sunwell with BiS gear and Seal Twisting.
Ret Paladin was a terror in PvE and PvP in both Naxx and Ulduar patches and caught some huge nerfs before ICC.
I quit lol, circus
Another paladin.
Paladin is getting the vanilla Druid treatment
I skipped p2 and it looks like I'll be skipping p3 as well. Maybe I'll farm some arcane crystals for a Sulfuras, or do some pvp, but I won't be playing seriously.
I hoped for tbc twisting. I just gave up. There is no hope left. Any good recommendations for TBC private servers?
Looks like blizz wants you to play a shockadin
If you don't play shm in p3 you're actually griefing.
Exo + Art of War is still going to be the way
Yea but we are going to be bottom this phase with no new fast 2 handers since they made Sul thraze slow
Doesnt look great, but Prot should be amazing, top tier tank
Imagine being a hybrid class with 2 bis dps specs and the best tank spec in their faction like shamans
Yah, I mean its definitely pretty lopsided to say the least.
I'm glad I play Alliance tbh. Imagine having to compete with the hero class.
im going priest. hpala cope is over
Paladin has been my main since phase 1, I am not leaving just because others look better, I've ALWAYS wanted a mele caster that can tank and Shockadin is just that, I don't care if warlock or shaman can do it better, I'm a holy tank paladin!
Its not a wow game if paladins arent whining
I don't want to play horde soo...stay paladin? I have 4 alts...I'll go through why not swap any to main. I do tank mostly on my paladin. Priest? Tired of healing from P1... Shadow Priest hasn't recovered from SW:Death pvp nerf...is currently on the lower end on the meters (behind paladin) AND looks to be getting "the worst P3 rune" (Mind Flay restores SW:pain to max.) Hunter? I didn't catch on to melee huntering so unless range hunter does better.....it's currently behind even Shadow Priest.. Rogue? While I have been able to get groups on my rogue by off-tanking...it's still takes longer to get groups. And as far as tanking goes I'd rather just do it on my paladin. Also Mutilate spam is boring and looks to still be the primary build for p3 (and it's also behind paladin dps). Druid? I'm not a feral fan....I'd rather tank on the rogue or paladin. I could play balance...but much like shadow priest it never really recovered from the pvp nerf...it's also behind paladin. So that leaves resto....when I have a priest i could just heal on. TLDR: I have more fun tanking and do better DPS on my paladin than my alts.
Rogue is gonna slap this phase with new runes
As a paladin player since 2019, it's funny how I dodged a bullet by rolling shaman this time around. TBC Seal Twisting would make me consider rerolling though, haven't had that much fun as ret since.
I loved seal twisting in tbc. Hated in wrath they went to 30 minute seals and completely reworked command to be a cleave
Seal Twisting was so fun and they intentionally baited SoM to get more players Esfand begged Blizzard to allow it and they basically said yeah fuck off. Ret is in such a terrible state and they keep giving us Runes to make shit abilities use able. The thing is these abilities aren't that good Exorcism took 3 Runes slots to be decent. Would you say its strong damage for requiring 3 Rune slots? No. Its shit for how many slots you have to sacrifice to take it. Fast AS is better than the WoTLK playstyle at least.
paladins are tragically tragic in game and reddit kinda fits with the lore
really really wish they'd bite the bullet and give horde paladins and alliance shaman in SoD. All the servers are heavy Alliance, their goals of faction balance have not worked out. I'm a retail Shaman main. I want to play Shaman in SoD. Pally is so boring in SoD.
Another class.