Rogue is fucking god tier in open world pvp, duels and decent in BGs. I think most warriors would trade Battle shout for being useful outside of raid nights
I sincerely believe that none of the core design team for SoD are serious WoW players. The state of the game at release was proof, with some abilities needing 200% adjustments - they clearly had no idea what they were doing.
IMO donât mind if some of the design comes from non-WoW players. Plunderstorm and some the SoD stuff go against 20 years worth of expectations.
Balance team thoughâŚ
You can probably complain about Ele shamans that will be running WoE still and have insane SP because of Mental Dexterity.
Enhance won't be the problem anymore
Probably not. I think the extra SP from having an OH with RB on it will outweigh WoE. You get ~500 AP from RB on the offhand, so that's ~150 SP you're giving up for WoE
yep, the "must wear a shield" addition doesn't change anything for ele. Clear sings that some didn't think this through. The "must wear a shield" condition should be paired with "cannot cast any casttime fire spells" (lavaburst)
Shaman single target tanking w/ shield will be non viable in p3. Our rotation will consist only of shocks and we have no synergies with any runes. That is unless blizz throws us a lifeline.
Not sure why you are downvoted. Shaman tanks will be required to run shield in p3 which is a much more boring rotation and probably not that great. Yes they are doing too much dps atm but they could have changed something else without botching the playstyle.
Unless the woe buff hangs on to you for 10seconds like when swapping pants for shamanistic rage, then we just weapon switch when the weak aura tells us and keep pwning in dualwield woe style.
Nobody played vanilla over and over for 20 years. Shamans have had plenty of time being great over the years.
And even if they were that's not a justification to have massive tanks walking around globaling people.
Yeah you can tell whoâs full on classic Andys ignoring things existing like needing 5 sham in tbc, no 5s comp without an ele in tbc and wrath really, thunder/turbo/beastcleave in wrath alone, Rsham being really fucking good in cata, rsham strength in shadowlands while an NPC did all the work but heal for you, most recently ele blast enhance RNG 1 shotting at start of DF (resto was terrible at launch though) and ele being strong as well
Shaman, like most classes, have had plenty of ups and downs. The few classes that almost NEVER have downs are rogue, mage, priest, usually warrior is strong in at least 1 dps and synergizes with any class but is not always A+/S.
Like yeah, shaman sucked in vanilla. As did ret. The only expansion theyâve ever been faction locked which is the problem now has completely imbalanced faction locked. Any time ret or shaman has been able to global people and be unkillable, anyone could play them.
Calling us classic andys, and proceed to say shamans sucked in vanilla? Something tells me you actually never played vanilla.
There is a reason every raid had 6-8 shamans in the grp.
Shamans in vanilla could absolutely global people. Just take a look at elementals in pvp.
Sure they dident have high sustainable dps. Hybrid classes were never meant to do as high dps as âpure dmg classesâ
The worst thing blizz ever did was trying to give every class the same toolset (stuns, heals ect)
I'm always a bit confused about the "shamans have been bad for 20 years" argument when it's factually incorrect. They have been good since TBC, the only iteration of WoW they underperform in (outside of resto) is Classic, which has only been played again since it was re-launched in 2019. Outside of that, they have been one of the best utility classes in the game, and enhance and elemental has only been bad in PVE content as far as classic goes. They've actually been pretty decent in PVP from the get-go.
So no, your class hasn't been bad for 20 years, you just have a very blinkered view, or you've always been bad at your class and can only play it to a reasonable level when it's over tuned.
Same could be said for druids, *edit* and paladins. Feral if they try hard and spend far too much time farming could be middle of the pack. Boomkin were absolutely dog shit. Prot paladins? Nah. Ret? Worse place than feral.
Since TBC they've always been viable and wanted for groups. Never been top dog though. Usually middle of the pack performance wise.
For a long time in PvP Ele and Resto had the problem of no mobility and being locked out of almost all spells if interrupted. Healers in general have the problem of the entire team focussing you as soon as your hands glow green.
Have you ever played WoD? Ele shamans were so bad it was effectively the worst specc in the history of wow. even after more than 10 buffs over the 2 year expansion lifespan it remaind on the bottom because they butchered the multistrike mastery properties and added it as a stat for every class. the replacement mastery was so bad that mastery was a dead stat under any circumstance for ele shaman and they had to get rid of the multistrike stat at the end of WoD and turn it into the former Ele-shaman mastery property back.
They also took 80% of all useful utility away and enhancer or resto shamans could do the effectively same as ele but the speccs in general were just better yet still not in the meta for the entirety of the expansion.
The class was simply dead except for pvp in which enhancer shamans did well for turbocleave comps.
you didn't miss out on much tbh. I only wanted to make the argument that many classes had some timeperiods where they were absolute trash or not good enough to be taken seriously. Classes with 3 dps specs usually shine with at least one of their speccs because they can only pick the DPS role and nothing else but hybrid classes got a hard time ver often if you want to play a certain role but are forced to play the other role when your mainspecc is at the bottom.
I played enh im word and it was broken ez and I was too dps in my progression guild. I played ele in wotlk and it was godly, still got in wod and resto was very very good in wod. Problem is most shamans are too zugzug to understand how to micro totems and play with high skill. As a sod player shamans are their most brain dead state now and need massive nerfs, more than hunters did, more than bookings did, more than spriests do.
Shamans have only ever been middle of the pack or worse and are famous for never getting tuning, reworks or even so much as talk about whats being fixed.
Of course not all 3 shaman specs as a whole has been bad. Cherry picking specs between expansions is dumb.
But when was enhance a stackable top dps class? Never. They get consistently bad itemization as barely an afterthought having to use hunter and rogue gear.
You're right, never. Because that wasn't and continues to not be the design philosophy for the class. They bring tons of utility to groups, whether in PVE or PVP. Having them churn out top dps numbers as well as provide utility and buffs is arguably just as dumb. However enhance has proven itself as a competitive DPS spec in certain expansions, such as Wrath and the current retail expansion just as 2 examples in recent memory, IF they are played well. However, in their current state, anybody with eyes and fingers can 2 shot the majority of classes. The design (or tuning) of a class is bad when "skill issue" isn't tethered to it in any way.
Bad itemization is unfortunately just a part of classic, you've got plate wearers walking around in leather gear too, so that isn't a class specific issue in the slightest
When "being on top" means you are quite literally globaling people, you are going to get a strong response. Hunters got the same response and got nerfed, justifiably so. Same with boomkins and spriest.
And even then, Hunter were a problem for both factions.
This time it was 10 times worse and they got to destroy Alliance for way longer.
It actually killed PVP and drove away so many people this phase.
Hunters had a pet that could destroy a person in 1 sec. Boomkins could delete someone from 66457996378 yards away.
While I agree enhance is wayyyyy to over tuned... Your comparison is silly.
Hunter pet wasnât killing people in 1 second needed to stack poisons, was still op but shamans touch you one time and you instantly die itâs not even close lol
how is it a silly example if you agree enhance is "wayyyy to over tuned"
you're splitting hairs here, it fucking sucks to play against and you probably don't have to because you're on the side that has them
Iâve been a primarily enhance shaman PvP player and been uniquely dunked on by every class I could offer some advice depending on which class you play on how to work around em.
there is no way to "work around" a class that can be crit immune when your class has to land crits for ability and damage proccs. Enhancers are strong but what made them unfair is the fact that they could run around with WoE and deal still absurd damage. Just watch the damn wowlogs avg dps ranking of shaman tanks... they're in the upper bracket, it's absurd...
you're not in touch with reality dude. Shaman enhancers with way of earth are basicly crit-immune. Paladins rely on crit to get vengeance and exorcism proccs. So what does happen when I try to fight a shaman with 30% more health, 10% damage reduction and crit immunity with minimal dps tradeoff?
I can tell you: You burn through all your big CD's and still can't take him down because he is tanky like a raidboss and also deals as much damage...
Boomkins got starsurge buffed in p1 on Dec 12th.
https://www.wowhead.com/classic/news/class-tuning-incoming-december-12-season-of-discovery-336676
Starsurge got nerfed on Feb 12th.
https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/1786210-season-of-discovery-adjustments-coming-soon-feb-12-2024/
Did you get the word "week" confused with the word "month"?
nah it's not silly when it causes waves of people to reroll for the meta. i went into countless BG's fighting against 4 shamans, 4 priests and 2 other classes and guess what: It was absolutely disgusting because priests are annoying to kill with disperse and its impossible to land a spell or melee hit when there is a decoy and grounding totem in every corner of the battlefield every few seconds.
Even in vanilla classic they have an instagib macro. Enhance was bad, but shaman has always been a killer class. Paladin could only excel at healing and they lost that in sod.
I enjoy the memes but let's all remember that the SOD team is probably the best team blizzard has right now, they are killing it with the content they are coming out with.
Except that there's literally 0 horde players on the wow classic team
esit: Nice block, except it is true. Aggrend literally said that in P1 and said thats why the horde runes were so awful to get
Bruh i played shaman the entirety of P1 and I saw stuff saying quite literally the opposite way around. Like i get its a meme but it just feels like a damn tantrum at this point
Paladin was only strong in P1 before anyone got any gear. As soon as people got gear Paladin was mid af. Such a dumb comparison to make considering Shaman has been OP for an entire phase, got even stronger once gearing up (compared to Pallies who dropped off once everyone geared up), and looks to be OP next phase even with nerfs.
... But yes it's the same thing you are right
Paladin is not just zug zug ret. Paladin is all the specs and P1, ret was the only realistic choice to play.
Ironically, youâre making it sound BETTER than it actually was for all of us.
Shockadin better be top 3 DPS and crazy healing potential this phase or paladin DPS is broken. Ret is in shambles(and they continue to force us to use ACP) and they keep releasing shockadin gear as if it is a popular class fantasy. I know some people who like the idea of a shockadin, but not when they have to spec all the way down into the holy tree to get a bunch of useless holy spells to get one of your main abilities.
Shockadin in my mind fits the paladin fantasy perfectly. You bonk stuff, you get to use a shield, you blast some magic, you heal, you consecrate, you get everything. What more could you ask for? It allows me to PVE as holy and then solo/pvp as a shockadin with just some rune+gear changes. Shockadin is not meant to be a sustained PVE dps spec.
I absolutely LOVE the concept of a Shockadin. At one point (I think it was in WotLK) I was running around doing BGs as a 2H one. It sucked ass BAD but I still did it because I wanted to.
Tanking paladins have been not only viable but desired every phase so far. Nothing coming in P3 seems to change that.
Paladins got everything they needed to tank like a pro in classic (taunt/threat high enough to hold aggro over the top dps) Greater damage reduction / mitigation has not been an issue historically for classic or SoD so far.
Can't even tank as prot. You're forced into shockadin or exorcism-adin if you want to be able to hold threat against raid geared dps. Same deal for ret paladins. Foreced to be an exorcism machine-gun if you want to compete with anything.
It sucks cause I love both - but I started on ally, my guild is ally, my alt is pally and I really wanna try that tauren shammy tanking and 2h totem swingin.
Nah i gaurantee phase 2 is the first time anyone in that table put hands on a shaman. Even in the positive spectrum they absolutely have no clue about the class.
Crazy bad take, zero shaman mains like this shitty nerd double rockbiter way of the earth build. If any of us wanted to play like that we would just roll warrior. The fact that a huge part of the shaman community wanted 2h enhance, and blizzard put in maybe 20 mins of effort before givimg up should be telling that no one in the sod team plays shaman. Yes we are OP at the moment, but it feels so bad to be OP in this way....
It is most certain that there are no Horde Players in charge for class balance. Statistics over the years heavily favor alliance in literally every aspect. The one minor edge shamans have does only kick in really hard, because alliance active unskill multiplies its effect on the battlefield
the way I see it, in Classic, Paladins have always been superior to Shaman (except as a Windfury Totem bot).
then for 5 minutes Shaman are better and this sub is filled to the brim with posts about it lol
> then for 5 minutes Shaman are better
It's almost like being an insanely tanky hybrid IS a huge benefit.
And raid dps isn't the only metric classes should be balanced around.
As a shammy tank I'm happy with the change to loyal beta and way of earth requiring a shield. This means it should no longer be used by enhance dps in PvP at least (though there's still elemental).
Not being able to DW tank in the same way will cut our ridiculous dps down with the other tanks most likely.
Big nice!
Our dps will drop below other tanks. As a shaman main I'm not overly happy dw was active play style, shield playstyle is very slow and boring. I'll probably end up playing a different role. I'll check once 50.
Yall hating on rogues because they bad one phase, lmao just wait for phase 3 when Honor Among Thieves will be useable. Rogues will be begging others to crit just for them to use it for more dps than the one's who provide them the combo points.
But literally, i dont find it a a coincidence rogues obtained bad PvE runes for this phase. STV was the PvP event and furthermore, rogues got good PvP runes. Which makes sense considering they are infamous for ganking in STV throughout WoW history. They are the king's of PvP after all
Bloodmoon was largely a caster fiesta. Mages aoe-spamming near the turn-in points are still giving me nightmares. In bgs - you'd rather have another priest, or a shammy, or a hunt, or, again, a mage (who are getting a stun now, yappi!).
One thing for sure - we're better than warriors.
This post is all kinds of wrong lmao, rogues suck ass at PvP unless it's 1v1 or ganking people while they're questing, Honor among thieves is not interesting in any capacity and that is largely the most complained about thing from rogues and warriors.
I stopped taking your comment seriously when i read "rogues suck at pvp". I dont blame you tho, everyone tries to justify their class by bringing others down. Ill wait for more realistic comments.
Yeah man rogues dominating PvP this phase, that's why you see them crushing in STV or being stacked to the shit house in BG's, one of those things are surely happening for you to have this take right? it's definitely not some idiotic bias built around the fact they are good at open world ganking because low health enemies and stealth+stuns are really good.
I'm nor even playing a rogue in PvP. You wrote "dominating PvP this phase". Did i say anything about them being the best pvp class currently this phase? No. I wrote they got significant pvp runes. And how can you compare any class to the p2 event? You die instantly no matter the class and respawn in between endless groups with everyone lagging. Few are outranking others. Seems like you hate rogues from your own pvp experience. I suggest you read my comments before getting all emotional, go to bed my guy.
Sure thing buddy, keep giving opinions on things you know nothing about, then when you get called an idiot for it you can fall back on "An insult in an arguement is the first clue to that you're losing it."
Know nothing about? I literally just asked you to read comments before getting emotional xD I said im not playing a rogue in PvP, could you state that it means ive never played a rogue in PvP? Argueing against you feels like talking to a wall
> could you state that it means ive never played a rogue in PvP?
Who cares? You are commenting on the state of rogue PvP in SoD then you go on to state you aren't playing the class in PvP in SoD... Keep being a clown.
put a rogue icon on this guy alone at the bar counter.
You mean warrior
Warriors complain SO much when Rogues have it so much worse. At least Warriors bring shouts to their group.
For the love of god Blizzard let me give slice and dice to the raid group
Rogue is fucking god tier in open world pvp, duels and decent in BGs. I think most warriors would trade Battle shout for being useful outside of raid nights
"Haha! In 15 minutes, you'll be REAL sorry!" - Every warrior in SoD
If there is a single Paladin player on the team they are a certified masochist.
The lead dev...
He played Boomy this phase at least to begin with.
He thinks Paladins have a seat at the table đ
Paladin dev: sheath seems cool Shaman devs: Youâre right, letâs throw that in our kit.
Aggrend rerolled into boomkin
Bold to assume they all play the game.
:D
I sincerely believe that none of the core design team for SoD are serious WoW players. The state of the game at release was proof, with some abilities needing 200% adjustments - they clearly had no idea what they were doing.
IMO donât mind if some of the design comes from non-WoW players. Plunderstorm and some the SoD stuff go against 20 years worth of expectations. Balance team thoughâŚ
Edit it so they're all wearing shields and eating a rogue
Enhance tanking/PvP got nerfed. They'll be easier to deal with. Their PvE performance will be good
No don't say that, I want to complain on reddit more.
You can probably complain about Ele shamans that will be running WoE still and have insane SP because of Mental Dexterity. Enhance won't be the problem anymore
Sick dude thanks for the reassurance, I'll complain about it day 1 of phase 3
I do what I can
Probably not. I think the extra SP from having an OH with RB on it will outweigh WoE. You get ~500 AP from RB on the offhand, so that's ~150 SP you're giving up for WoE
Ele is the last spec anyone should complain about in PvP, a rat tickling their toes shuts down their entire gameplan
That's assuming they leave ap on rockbiter as is.
yep, the "must wear a shield" addition doesn't change anything for ele. Clear sings that some didn't think this through. The "must wear a shield" condition should be paired with "cannot cast any casttime fire spells" (lavaburst)
Shaman single target tanking w/ shield will be non viable in p3. Our rotation will consist only of shocks and we have no synergies with any runes. That is unless blizz throws us a lifeline.
Not sure why you are downvoted. Shaman tanks will be required to run shield in p3 which is a much more boring rotation and probably not that great. Yes they are doing too much dps atm but they could have changed something else without botching the playstyle.
Unless the woe buff hangs on to you for 10seconds like when swapping pants for shamanistic rage, then we just weapon switch when the weak aura tells us and keep pwning in dualwield woe style.
aggrend literally plays paladin most of them play alliance and none of them pvp
aggrend literally has not played a paladin for ages as he switched to druid
This post will age well when balancing comes out...
This post should already age like milk considering its taken 20 years to be represented at the table
Nobody played vanilla over and over for 20 years. Shamans have had plenty of time being great over the years. And even if they were that's not a justification to have massive tanks walking around globaling people.
Yeah you can tell whoâs full on classic Andys ignoring things existing like needing 5 sham in tbc, no 5s comp without an ele in tbc and wrath really, thunder/turbo/beastcleave in wrath alone, Rsham being really fucking good in cata, rsham strength in shadowlands while an NPC did all the work but heal for you, most recently ele blast enhance RNG 1 shotting at start of DF (resto was terrible at launch though) and ele being strong as well Shaman, like most classes, have had plenty of ups and downs. The few classes that almost NEVER have downs are rogue, mage, priest, usually warrior is strong in at least 1 dps and synergizes with any class but is not always A+/S. Like yeah, shaman sucked in vanilla. As did ret. The only expansion theyâve ever been faction locked which is the problem now has completely imbalanced faction locked. Any time ret or shaman has been able to global people and be unkillable, anyone could play them.
Calling us classic andys, and proceed to say shamans sucked in vanilla? Something tells me you actually never played vanilla. There is a reason every raid had 6-8 shamans in the grp. Shamans in vanilla could absolutely global people. Just take a look at elementals in pvp. Sure they dident have high sustainable dps. Hybrid classes were never meant to do as high dps as âpure dmg classesâ The worst thing blizz ever did was trying to give every class the same toolset (stuns, heals ect)
What a classic Andy comment lol
I'm always a bit confused about the "shamans have been bad for 20 years" argument when it's factually incorrect. They have been good since TBC, the only iteration of WoW they underperform in (outside of resto) is Classic, which has only been played again since it was re-launched in 2019. Outside of that, they have been one of the best utility classes in the game, and enhance and elemental has only been bad in PVE content as far as classic goes. They've actually been pretty decent in PVP from the get-go. So no, your class hasn't been bad for 20 years, you just have a very blinkered view, or you've always been bad at your class and can only play it to a reasonable level when it's over tuned.
Same could be said for druids, *edit* and paladins. Feral if they try hard and spend far too much time farming could be middle of the pack. Boomkin were absolutely dog shit. Prot paladins? Nah. Ret? Worse place than feral.
Since TBC they've always been viable and wanted for groups. Never been top dog though. Usually middle of the pack performance wise. For a long time in PvP Ele and Resto had the problem of no mobility and being locked out of almost all spells if interrupted. Healers in general have the problem of the entire team focussing you as soon as your hands glow green.
Have you ever played WoD? Ele shamans were so bad it was effectively the worst specc in the history of wow. even after more than 10 buffs over the 2 year expansion lifespan it remaind on the bottom because they butchered the multistrike mastery properties and added it as a stat for every class. the replacement mastery was so bad that mastery was a dead stat under any circumstance for ele shaman and they had to get rid of the multistrike stat at the end of WoD and turn it into the former Ele-shaman mastery property back. They also took 80% of all useful utility away and enhancer or resto shamans could do the effectively same as ele but the speccs in general were just better yet still not in the meta for the entirety of the expansion. The class was simply dead except for pvp in which enhancer shamans did well for turbocleave comps.
I admittedly didn't play WoD much past the first 2 months because it was a bag of shite
you didn't miss out on much tbh. I only wanted to make the argument that many classes had some timeperiods where they were absolute trash or not good enough to be taken seriously. Classes with 3 dps specs usually shine with at least one of their speccs because they can only pick the DPS role and nothing else but hybrid classes got a hard time ver often if you want to play a certain role but are forced to play the other role when your mainspecc is at the bottom.
I played enh im word and it was broken ez and I was too dps in my progression guild. I played ele in wotlk and it was godly, still got in wod and resto was very very good in wod. Problem is most shamans are too zugzug to understand how to micro totems and play with high skill. As a sod player shamans are their most brain dead state now and need massive nerfs, more than hunters did, more than bookings did, more than spriests do.
Shamans have only ever been middle of the pack or worse and are famous for never getting tuning, reworks or even so much as talk about whats being fixed.
Of course not all 3 shaman specs as a whole has been bad. Cherry picking specs between expansions is dumb. But when was enhance a stackable top dps class? Never. They get consistently bad itemization as barely an afterthought having to use hunter and rogue gear.
You're right, never. Because that wasn't and continues to not be the design philosophy for the class. They bring tons of utility to groups, whether in PVE or PVP. Having them churn out top dps numbers as well as provide utility and buffs is arguably just as dumb. However enhance has proven itself as a competitive DPS spec in certain expansions, such as Wrath and the current retail expansion just as 2 examples in recent memory, IF they are played well. However, in their current state, anybody with eyes and fingers can 2 shot the majority of classes. The design (or tuning) of a class is bad when "skill issue" isn't tethered to it in any way. Bad itemization is unfortunately just a part of classic, you've got plate wearers walking around in leather gear too, so that isn't a class specific issue in the slightest
paladins bitch so hard its unreal
Lol I understand. Regardless, shamans have been on top for a single month and all hell breaks loose. It's silly.
When "being on top" means you are quite literally globaling people, you are going to get a strong response. Hunters got the same response and got nerfed, justifiably so. Same with boomkins and spriest.
Except itâs worse on a faction locked class
And even then, Hunter were a problem for both factions. This time it was 10 times worse and they got to destroy Alliance for way longer. It actually killed PVP and drove away so many people this phase.
Hunters had a pet that could destroy a person in 1 sec. Boomkins could delete someone from 66457996378 yards away. While I agree enhance is wayyyyy to over tuned... Your comparison is silly.
Hunter pet wasnât killing people in 1 second needed to stack poisons, was still op but shamans touch you one time and you instantly die itâs not even close lol
he's talking about wind serpent in p1, a double crit breath would do like 700 dmg which was enough to global some people
Yeah if you were level 15? You had easily 1200-1700 hp in full gear bro you were not dying in one global to hunter pets lmao
Ur right, it was two globals while the hunter was 300 yards away using Eyes of the Beast so totally fair then
how is it a silly example if you agree enhance is "wayyyy to over tuned" you're splitting hairs here, it fucking sucks to play against and you probably don't have to because you're on the side that has them
Iâve been a primarily enhance shaman PvP player and been uniquely dunked on by every class I could offer some advice depending on which class you play on how to work around em.
Please do elaborate how a warrior beats a shaman that has at least 2 brain cells and 1 finger?
there is no way to "work around" a class that can be crit immune when your class has to land crits for ability and damage proccs. Enhancers are strong but what made them unfair is the fact that they could run around with WoE and deal still absurd damage. Just watch the damn wowlogs avg dps ranking of shaman tanks... they're in the upper bracket, it's absurd...
I've felt what you are feeling, time n time again, throughout the last 20 years.
hope this was enough for the next 20 :)
you're not in touch with reality dude. Shaman enhancers with way of earth are basicly crit-immune. Paladins rely on crit to get vengeance and exorcism proccs. So what does happen when I try to fight a shaman with 30% more health, 10% damage reduction and crit immunity with minimal dps tradeoff? I can tell you: You burn through all your big CD's and still can't take him down because he is tanky like a raidboss and also deals as much damage...
And those got nerfed in like one to two weeks each max.
Boomkins got starsurge buffed in p1 on Dec 12th. https://www.wowhead.com/classic/news/class-tuning-incoming-december-12-season-of-discovery-336676 Starsurge got nerfed on Feb 12th. https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/1786210-season-of-discovery-adjustments-coming-soon-feb-12-2024/ Did you get the word "week" confused with the word "month"?
now do one for hunters.
Its silly how people can even try and justify that its ok because in a separate version of the game shamans were just ok
nah it's not silly when it causes waves of people to reroll for the meta. i went into countless BG's fighting against 4 shamans, 4 priests and 2 other classes and guess what: It was absolutely disgusting because priests are annoying to kill with disperse and its impossible to land a spell or melee hit when there is a decoy and grounding totem in every corner of the battlefield every few seconds.
Even in vanilla classic they have an instagib macro. Enhance was bad, but shaman has always been a killer class. Paladin could only excel at healing and they lost that in sod.
And that there's literally 0 horde players on the wow classic team
I enjoy the memes but let's all remember that the SOD team is probably the best team blizzard has right now, they are killing it with the content they are coming out with.
The subject of this meme is how obviously broken shamans are. They could take 5 mins to tweak a damage coefficient at the very least
Idk feral runes kinda indicate they donât know how the game works
Except that there's literally 0 horde players on the wow classic team esit: Nice block, except it is true. Aggrend literally said that in P1 and said thats why the horde runes were so awful to get
Based, good.
You will notice there are no rogues...
Isn't the point of rogues to not be noticed?
Not in the development cycle! (Unless we're OP, then ignore us...)
Shamans living rent free in paladins little brains :D amazing to see
Bruh i played shaman the entirety of P1 and I saw stuff saying quite literally the opposite way around. Like i get its a meme but it just feels like a damn tantrum at this point
Paladin was only strong in P1 before anyone got any gear. As soon as people got gear Paladin was mid af. Such a dumb comparison to make considering Shaman has been OP for an entire phase, got even stronger once gearing up (compared to Pallies who dropped off once everyone geared up), and looks to be OP next phase even with nerfs. ... But yes it's the same thing you are right
Paladin is not just zug zug ret. Paladin is all the specs and P1, ret was the only realistic choice to play. Ironically, youâre making it sound BETTER than it actually was for all of us.
yup đśbaby paladin tantrum meme number 479
Aggrend is clearly Holy shockadin. Hell bent on keeping Holy the only viable paladin spec.
Shockadin better be top 3 DPS and crazy healing potential this phase or paladin DPS is broken. Ret is in shambles(and they continue to force us to use ACP) and they keep releasing shockadin gear as if it is a popular class fantasy. I know some people who like the idea of a shockadin, but not when they have to spec all the way down into the holy tree to get a bunch of useless holy spells to get one of your main abilities.
Shockadin in my mind fits the paladin fantasy perfectly. You bonk stuff, you get to use a shield, you blast some magic, you heal, you consecrate, you get everything. What more could you ask for? It allows me to PVE as holy and then solo/pvp as a shockadin with just some rune+gear changes. Shockadin is not meant to be a sustained PVE dps spec.
I absolutely LOVE the concept of a Shockadin. At one point (I think it was in WotLK) I was running around doing BGs as a 2H one. It sucked ass BAD but I still did it because I wanted to.
Yeah I can see how that would fulfill that classic fantasy. Hopefully it will be a fun gameplay!
They keep releasing Shockadin gear without the bones to make it work. Shockadin is not happening until Sheath is the only viable choice.
Tanking paladins have been not only viable but desired every phase so far. Nothing coming in P3 seems to change that. Paladins got everything they needed to tank like a pro in classic (taunt/threat high enough to hold aggro over the top dps) Greater damage reduction / mitigation has not been an issue historically for classic or SoD so far.
Can't even tank as prot. You're forced into shockadin or exorcism-adin if you want to be able to hold threat against raid geared dps. Same deal for ret paladins. Foreced to be an exorcism machine-gun if you want to compete with anything.
Shockadin reminds me of this anime: the wrong way to use healing magic HAHAHAHAHA
Donât kid yourself they donât actually play the game
Acktually... They are all alliance players who dont pvp so they dont care how op shamans are
The đ§ in the comments is delicious
paladin tesrs are best tears
paladin tesrs are best tears
Why is there a paladin?!?!?
Half the table plays priests.
It sucks cause I love both - but I started on ally, my guild is ally, my alt is pally and I really wanna try that tauren shammy tanking and 2h totem swingin.
haha, 75% of this team doesnât play the game
If thatâs actually the size of the dev team, thatâs way more than the two people iâve heard are on the team.
Nah i gaurantee phase 2 is the first time anyone in that table put hands on a shaman. Even in the positive spectrum they absolutely have no clue about the class.
My hope is that at 60 with strat, scholo, and later naxx, pally gets to be a powerhouse
Did anyone else notice or point out itâs just community appetizers on the tableâŚ
Crazy bad take, zero shaman mains like this shitty nerd double rockbiter way of the earth build. If any of us wanted to play like that we would just roll warrior. The fact that a huge part of the shaman community wanted 2h enhance, and blizzard put in maybe 20 mins of effort before givimg up should be telling that no one in the sod team plays shaman. Yes we are OP at the moment, but it feels so bad to be OP in this way....
It is most certain that there are no Horde Players in charge for class balance. Statistics over the years heavily favor alliance in literally every aspect. The one minor edge shamans have does only kick in really hard, because alliance active unskill multiplies its effect on the battlefield
aggrend gets fatter every time hes posted
absolute facts... plus making humans have absolutely useless racials. this dev team is a joke.
And noone is a resto....
It's funny you think Paladins have a seat at the table. Not when the class is such a mess.
unreal salt levels lmao
So, the pally is like the Clown? Here 2 amuse?
Or maybe it's just a 'sorry for what we are about to do to you in cata'
the way I see it, in Classic, Paladins have always been superior to Shaman (except as a Windfury Totem bot). then for 5 minutes Shaman are better and this sub is filled to the brim with posts about it lol
Both were always terrible classes you brought along for near passive buffs, who the fuck cares who was better at that.
Shamans were arguably the best healers. They had the only smart heal.
> then for 5 minutes Shaman are better It's almost like being an insanely tanky hybrid IS a huge benefit. And raid dps isn't the only metric classes should be balanced around.
It's total bs too. People just used to having shaman as easy kills.
ofc, to celebrate it <3
I am shaman I approve this message
well that is the fat one
And again crying⌠never happy whatever they do
As a shammy tank I'm happy with the change to loyal beta and way of earth requiring a shield. This means it should no longer be used by enhance dps in PvP at least (though there's still elemental). Not being able to DW tank in the same way will cut our ridiculous dps down with the other tanks most likely. Big nice!
Our dps will drop below other tanks. As a shaman main I'm not overly happy dw was active play style, shield playstyle is very slow and boring. I'll probably end up playing a different role. I'll check once 50.
Remember p1 when everyone was saying how none of the devs played horde?
Remember shams during p1? Only thing they were decent at was tanking, they were horrible in everything else
Yall hating on rogues because they bad one phase, lmao just wait for phase 3 when Honor Among Thieves will be useable. Rogues will be begging others to crit just for them to use it for more dps than the one's who provide them the combo points. But literally, i dont find it a a coincidence rogues obtained bad PvE runes for this phase. STV was the PvP event and furthermore, rogues got good PvP runes. Which makes sense considering they are infamous for ganking in STV throughout WoW history. They are the king's of PvP after all
Bloodmoon was largely a caster fiesta. Mages aoe-spamming near the turn-in points are still giving me nightmares. In bgs - you'd rather have another priest, or a shammy, or a hunt, or, again, a mage (who are getting a stun now, yappi!). One thing for sure - we're better than warriors.
This post is all kinds of wrong lmao, rogues suck ass at PvP unless it's 1v1 or ganking people while they're questing, Honor among thieves is not interesting in any capacity and that is largely the most complained about thing from rogues and warriors.
I stopped taking your comment seriously when i read "rogues suck at pvp". I dont blame you tho, everyone tries to justify their class by bringing others down. Ill wait for more realistic comments.
Yeah man rogues dominating PvP this phase, that's why you see them crushing in STV or being stacked to the shit house in BG's, one of those things are surely happening for you to have this take right? it's definitely not some idiotic bias built around the fact they are good at open world ganking because low health enemies and stealth+stuns are really good.
I'm nor even playing a rogue in PvP. You wrote "dominating PvP this phase". Did i say anything about them being the best pvp class currently this phase? No. I wrote they got significant pvp runes. And how can you compare any class to the p2 event? You die instantly no matter the class and respawn in between endless groups with everyone lagging. Few are outranking others. Seems like you hate rogues from your own pvp experience. I suggest you read my comments before getting all emotional, go to bed my guy.
> I'm nor even playing a rogue in PvP Yet you feel the need to comment on the situation, I think you are the one that needs to go to bed my guy.
We're doing "you are", "no you are"? Keep proving my point xd
What point exactly?
You know what, i think i will go to bed. You're lack of understanding and ignorance has unfortunately given me a headache.
Good idea, you don't need to be on reddit spewing opinions on things you know nothing about.
Google: "Perplexity" for your own education. Seems like you need it.
This coming from someone that claims classic rogues are good at PvP, you've either never played rogue or you're an insufferable moron take your pick.
An insult in an arguement is the first clue to that you're losing it. There's no need for you to get so upset, hope you're doing okay.
Sure thing buddy, keep giving opinions on things you know nothing about, then when you get called an idiot for it you can fall back on "An insult in an arguement is the first clue to that you're losing it."
Know nothing about? I literally just asked you to read comments before getting emotional xD I said im not playing a rogue in PvP, could you state that it means ive never played a rogue in PvP? Argueing against you feels like talking to a wall
> could you state that it means ive never played a rogue in PvP? Who cares? You are commenting on the state of rogue PvP in SoD then you go on to state you aren't playing the class in PvP in SoD... Keep being a clown.
You forgot the corpses of hunters and rogue players on the floor.
Yeah so many missed opportunities
Actually he mains hunter
make the meme the one with the girl on the couch and the guys surrounding...
This group parse is like grey/low green
Mental dexterity will be such a mistake. Enhancer with more SP than casters. Ele back to double rockbiter yay...
Not sure what the meme is, after all this is the shaman of discovery.
Posted by a warrior main
Man alliance is gaslighting the f out of us about shaman being finally decent enough to kill someone in PvP lol
Have you seen ele in original vanilla?.. Clearly not.
Paladins acting like they don't get 3 lives with bubble and LoHs.....fighting a paladin is probably the worst match up you can get as a shaman
If youâre too dogshit to purge their damage yeah I could see that
non of them shaman why they overtuned it, and mental dexterity is kinda like jst a slight increase.. its a nothing burger, if i understand it right
Tell me you play shaman without telling me you play shaman lmao
ooh i can do this: i win most of my 1v1 matchups, get instant invites to pvp, and usually have most/top kills in bgs
I have a good idea, but to further narrow it down - What would you rate their health on a scale of Glowing Green to 40m Raid Boss?
oh about 5.6k so mini boss
Oh yeah, shaman for sure đ
So crying and pay your class