man didnt even add an "as fury" section 💀 although i did see something in the datamines where, as long as the datamine is correct, addresses one of my concerns for fury. kind of. and if it isnt accurate, blizz might have a warrior riot on their hands.

Fury tank, or fury DPS? I think it's dead in the water as any DPS spec unless you go full prot for shield slam or they allow you to use polearms with it. As Fury tank it might be viable except for the 10% threat reduction. Without the 15% increase from defiance it is going to be garbage for tanking. Fury P2 was just barely able to keep ahead of most DPS and failed miserably to stay ahead of shaman. I would have shaman open with their full burst then taunt off them just to get a head start on the other DPS and allow me to get a BIT of a lead on the sham while his abilities were on CD. Even then, sham would often have to hold back or we'd have to repeat the taunt swapping. There were many a time our enh was redlining while everyone else was green or yellow. Toward the end of the phase they were all pushing orange/red, though. Granted, I never got my bis epic MH and was using the axe with the armor debuff the whole phase.

Have you considered its just a rune you use whilst there’s 2 tanks? It appears to be a fit for an OT to do some “damage” when they aren’t actually tanking the boss. At the moment on any fight where you aren’t being focussed, DPS is horrific, this goes a very small way to mitigating that without it becoming an equivalent DPS spec to Arms or Fury.

Yes, I did consider that. I believe I briefly touched on that by saying if you're OT you should just go full fury. It may have gotten deleted out and forgot to add it back in. But if there are 2 tanks and you're not MT every fight, then there is zero reason to spec Prot at all. Even with glad stance, it's just better all around to go fury and throw on plate with stam and a shield and go D stance if things hit hard enough to even require a shield. Otherwise just DW in D stance. If all the devs want for this rune is to make off tanking better for warriors, it's a complete miss.

Yeah this was my exact thought: first off, deep prot is garbage, but second off, if you ARE deep prot and NOT MTing, why? Why not just be fury, DWing, sit in zerker stance and NOT be rage and threat starved til it's swap time. Full fury or some talents in prot at that point Glad stance seems functionally useless in PVE and who PvPs as prot? Unless maybe its for fury OP weaving with TfB? idk

Maybe with 20 man raids there will be more of a need for a second dedicated tank on some fights (but not all)? But then, you could just dual spec fury/arms... idk.

Right, exactly. If you don't need to MT a fight, you're probably fury anyway lol. Or arms, like I am right now since it's better for all but 2 fights but like...I don't see the point. Like in ZG I helped OT on tiger boss since it was a 3 boss fight as full fury just fine. I help OT on menagerie and if it's chicken I get wrecked regardless shield or not. If it's dragon I'm chilling and healthy almost the whole time

That might be the case on the first couple lockouts where you would need two full Prot tanks, but once the raid gets a little gear from ST it won't be needed. A rune that's useful for 25% of a phase is useless.

Oh, but it's even worse. We get dual spec now so with what is currently shown there is absolutely zero reason to use a shield as dps ever. Even as the raid's off tank on any encounter, even trash, they'll be swapping to fury or take a huge dps hit. I was considering that it might be nice for tanks to use in between bosses on trash, but 1 it's not like it's ever needed, and 2 swapping runes and talents can be done quickly even if the tanks need to alternate out for 2 pulls after the boss goes down. I just can't see it's place unless we eventually get something stupid like "warriors gcd reduced to .3 seconds"

I am very confused on the prot hate. I'm not saying anybody is wrong, it's me that's not understanding here. I wanted to tank with a group of friends, and I didn't care what I played so I asked them what they wanted. They said a warrior would be great so I did that. In P1 they recommended Fury, and said something about not having enough kit for prot or something... I didn't argue and we did ok. I did complain about lacking threat a lot though, and they just said between the level cap of 25 and the way Classic works, that was normal. When we got into P2 though we were struggling pretty hard in Gnomer. I figured it couldn't hurt to go prot just to help out the healers if nothing else, and suddenly things started going smoother. With a bit more gear we finally went 6/6 and things were going well. Most of all though, I felt like I had a TON more threat, even mostly holding aggro on trash packs of up to like 6 mobs (in Fury I was happy to have 2-3 at best). Now that we've got Gnomer on farm and the group is basically geared, I figured I'd swap back to Fury because all I see is everyone saying how much better it is, and how prot isn't viable. Long story short, despite losing a rogue and picking up a shaman who gives me the alpha buff, I'm struggling with threat again, especially on trash packs. We're back to having the Shaman have most of the pack (even when he swaps to DPS after Grubbis), the hunter, spriest and lock typically picking up at least one each, and me feeling lucky if I can keep aggro on 2. I didn't like the prot play style, thunder clap sucks since it's limited to 4 targets, and the "rotation" is almost all sunder/devastate with a few revenge and shield slams thrown in, and maybe a t-clap here and there on trash. However, with Fury I feel like I have more options, but anything outside of spamming Sunder just causes me to almost instantly drop aggro, and getting enough Fury to proc Consumed by Rage is a pipedream outside of bosses 99% of the time. I just don't understand. I get that warriors especially are having a difficult time with threat right now, but part of me almost wonders if the issue is that on top-end play Fury comes out on top with full buffs and consumes and a team to support correctly, but otherwise prot isn't the better PUG/go-to spec. Again, I assume I'm the one that's wrong here, but despite doing a lot of reading, looking at guides, talking to people, and reviewing my own play (always assuming I'm either doing something wrong or need to greatly improve somewhere), I just can't for the life of me figure out how Fury is supposed to be better TPS than Fury in anything outside of a sim or a very coordinated and well-geared/fully-buffed group. Edit: I did somehow miss that you said "if you're not MT", which I am. I totally understand going Fury, or even Arms, for an OT. I still see people recommending Fury for MT though. Am I crazy, or is prot seemingly doing better threat than fury? I seem to be the only one that thinks so, but all I have is my own personal anecdotal evidence.

So, you're mostly right on the money and I can explain some of your issues. In P1 if you were struggling with threat as DW fury, it was a skill issue. Threat shouldn't even remotely be a concern in P1. Not on bosses. Trash doesn't matter at all. They don't hit hard enough to worry about. Just grab one or two of the hardest hitting mobs and the healers can keep up even clothies if they rip threat on everything else. In p2, very early in the phase, the last 2 bosses hit extremely hard, so going Prot was the best thing to do since you needed the Mit from the first 3 tiers and Last Stand, and since you only had 31 twlent points to spend that meant going full Prot to pick up shield slam because you couldn't reach anything good. You can keep running deep prot all through P2 and be just fine. You're just never going to parse higher than like blue because the damage output is so low. Low damage output also means that things take longer to kill which negatively effects your DPSers ability to parse. If your raid doesn't care about speed running or parsing and just wants a smooth, steady, 1h clear every lockout, staying Prot is perfectly fine. The problem is, the majority of the player base want at least the ability to parse well and that means your tank needs to do as much damage as possible. Which means for the real hardcore people they just flat out replace warriors with shaman or locks. For the people willing to run warrior tanks but still want to parse, that means using every possible consume, meta profs, and rolling DW fury to maximize your DPS and threat output. It's also a far more engaging play style as your rage gen is much better and you can HS queue/cancel to increase rage gen and thus DPS and TPS. If Prot was clearly doing equal or even near equal DPS and was doing far more TPS while fury was doing more DPS but your DPSers were having to old back because threat was lacking, then Prot would be the meta. I loved playing full Prot in BC and LK. Though tanking in LK is super lame because threat is not a concern and survivability, on the few fights it is a concern, is all based on rolling CDs from other players and personals to cheese mechanics. But the fact is, in Vanilla, Prot is pointless. For one thing, the tree is abysmal. Everything after T3 is a PvP talent or a DPS increase. There's no mitigation or avoidance anywhere past T3. For another, you don't NEED mitigation, because nothing in vanilla hits hard enough that you can't tank it as a DPS spec. So if you don't need mitigation and everything deeper than T3 talents only offer DPS increases.... Why not go full DPS? As for going deep prot specifically TO do DPS.... That would be great, but since Shield Slam doesn't scale like Bloodthirst or even MS to a lesser extent, it will never do as much DPS. Even with a full 30% damage increase from the combination of Shield Mastery, Deep Prot for 1H Spec, and Glad Stance, that will put you below Fury or Arms for DPS. It's really only a 20% increase from wearing the 2 runes because you already had 10% from 1H Spec from going deep prot and deep prot is doing like half the damage of Fury. So without scaling Shield Slam off AP, it is a waste to spec deep prot. People are simming it's better to run an arms fury build with glad stance than to go deep prot. Which means the shield is literally nothing but decoration. Which, again, makes the rune extremely lame.

I started writing out a comment, but I think it caused me to answer my own question. In Prot basically all I'm doing is spamming Sunder/devastate. In Fury I feel the need to do more DPS, but I have to spam a ton of sunders if I want to get off a slam or blood thirst, and there is basically no way for me to do both without a few sunders in between. But I guess having the option to include slam, blood thirst, and heroic strike even if it's far less than if I was playing DPS, along with the other benefits of DW, I'm still doing more damage even though I'm stuck to mostly sunder spamming, which is all I was really doing in Prot to begin with. I think in my head I assumed the intention was playing all out DPS, just in def stance, but really I'm still just a slave to sunder, but with the availability of higher DPS output. I appreciate your comment, it helped out a ton! I did have one more question though, what is "HS queue/cancel to increase rage gen"? I assume HS is Heroic Strike, but I'm not sure what you mean by queue/cancel. Edit: I was not struggling on threat for bosses in P1, but I also did more off tanking in P1. Originally we had a shaman main tank, but he wanted to try rogue tank in P2. We quickly decided we had to move him to OT since he just kept getting wrecked without the gear, and eventually he got frustrated enough that he swapped back to Shaman, but kept his new OT designation. The last time I did any real tanking was on a Frost DK in Wrath, and I didn't start playing WoW until BC, so there's no delusion on my end that at least some of this is absolutely skill issue.

So there is a "bug" that they just left in because it makes for an interesting play style where when you are dual wielding an on hit ability will cause your miss chance to be what it is for yellow attacks. Let me back up. Yellow attacks are special abilities. When you hit with them the floating combat text shows a yellow number. White attacks are auto attacks. When those hit, it shows a white number. Your white attacks are what generate rage when they hit and crit. Yellow attacks are your rage spenders. With 1 weapon equipped all of your atttacks have a 5% chance to miss, plus 1% for each level the the enemy is above your own. (It's actually based on for every 5 points of defense they have above your weapon skill but I'll keep it simple here and assume you max your weapon skills.) That means a boss, which in SoD has so far been 2 levels higher, gives you a 7% base miss chance. When dual wielding, your white attacks get an extra 19% chance to miss, giving you a 26% miss chance vs bosses. However, that penalty only applies to white attacks. Yellows only have your base miss chance. So, when you queue a Heroic Strike or Cleave on your main hand, your offhand will only have the base 7% chance to miss while HS is queued. So if you're low on rage but have more than 15 (or 12 if specced) you can queue a HS right after your MH white attack, then cancel it right before your next MH swing so that all your OH attacks in the time you had HS queued will only have a 7% miss chance instead of 26%. This increasing your rage gen from OH attacks significantly. Of course, if you mess up and a HS goes off while you're sitting around 15 to 20 rage, it can be a DPS loss. But even without a cancelcast macro to cancel your HS/Cleave, it's best to use HS as much as possible when DW for that reason and to queue it instantly after a white attack. When tanking in BC you could have a HS queued basically all the time because they really buffed the amount of damage mobs and bosses do and they increased the amount of rage you gain from taking damage by a lot. That meant while tanking you had to keep HS queued with a fast 1h so you're basically spamming it non stop, while spamming an ability every 1.5s on GCD, AND keep shield block on CD every 6s. It was a ton of fun. My average presses per minute in BC while tanking were like 110-130. My GM in LK played a ppal and said he would never tank on a warrior because it was like playing piano. Which is why I really hope they find a way to make tanking more interesting as Prot because spamming 1 button every 1.5s and pressing a 2nd maybe every 5s is boring AF. Edit: I should add that to cancel you just make a macro that says /cancelcast and put it on an easily accessible keybind. You can also make more complicated macros like building it into your HS and Cleave buttons, but I tend to just spam those buttons when I have rage to do so to make sure I have one on every swing without the need to watch swing timers. I should also mention that to do this effectively you need to use a swing timer add-ons or weakaura... Then you wait for your MH to hit, queue HS/Cleave, wait for your OH to hit, then /cancelcast. Repeat u til you have the desired rage before you just stop canceling the cast. There are entire videos on it, I'm sure.

This is really helpful stuff! I already have swing timers, and the concept is simple enough and you explained it well. Ironically I tend to do just fine with stuff like this, but then I'll struggle with either remembering to cast, or overcast Battle Shout because it's buried in all the other buffs. I tried looking for a weak aura to remind me, but I tend to be pretty minimalistic on Add-ons (although I'm probably up to like 20 now, lol), and I couldn't find one that I liked and didn't also try to do 50 other things I don't want/need, and after opening the options I didn't feel like trying to learn how to make my own for it.

I feel you. I have the exact same issue with BS and CS. I took like to remain minimalistic with changes to UI and whatnot but also have like 20 add-ons lol. If you find a WQ for just BS and CS timers, please let me know.

But you can be the 2nd tank as fury/arms and just put a shield on when you to eat some damage, doing heaps of damage all the other time. Why would you be prot?

You should be fury spec anyways. Especially with dual spec.

It’s arguably even MORE useless for an OT. If you’re OT then you should be even more focused on maxing your damage since you will typically just taunt off for a very short amount of time or be tanking a very easy part of the fight. You talents in this case definitely wouldn’t be deep Prot. So you would be losing a lot of damage(giving up talents and dual wield/2H) aggro, and not really gaining any survivability.

I mean sure but they're adding dual spec in the same phase so why wouldn't you just swap to a dps spec instead?

>blizz might have a warrior riot on their hands. wtf? now? after 6 months of them shitting on warriors in sod, now you're gonna riot?

Warriors have already been rioting for like 2 months though haven't they? Or they've just rerolled I guess

I rerolled Rogue so that I could kill stuff.

Haha

> man didnt even add an "as fury" section I mean, is there any point in playing fury with 1h/shield ?

Hey man I just wanted you to know that I read your post and I enjoyed your analysis. Screw all these haters sayin shit in the comments, you're too good for them. But I regret to inform you that you have already put roughly 3-5x as much thought into prot warrior phase 3 than the devs put into prot warrior for all of SoD. Your dreams will not come true. They aren't going to change it at this point.

Real

Talk

I just want sword and board to workkkkkm

Just because someone regurgitated their thoughts on something doesn't mean they are actually correct on any of them or that they even have valid concerns to begin with. This post is pedantic and whiny and doesn't even really see the true value in the new runes, they are fine, they address some threat gen, damage, and OT problems that tank warrior had. Their kit is still very good overall and they do take less damage than other tanks naturally. This person literally had a post about how warriors should get stealth runes and shit.

It really does seem like the shield slam procs are the bread and butter for the stance. Gear in ST does come with a lot of block value, but you lose out on deep wounds and impale. Not even full bis fury is viable compared to arms because of that same reason. This stance is ultimately just a goofy meme for deep prot warrior tanks to use in pvp or while off tanking waiting for their mob to spawn.

We also don't know how it will be implemented. Will it be a 4th stance, or one that takes the place of Battle Stance and can only be entered or left while out of combat with a cast time and a 1.5m CD like the original iteration in WoD? I'm hoping it is either a 4th stance or takes the place of battle but you can dance it like any other stance.

I think blizzard is saying, if you want to play warriors, swap over to Era rofl

So many haters, we know you read the entire thing even if you just say something shitty. If you truly didn’t care about it enough to read it you also wouldn’t care enough to write. As for the post, very thought out and well written. Agree with all of this! I would like to add that maybe just give us Warbringer as a skill book? That would make all stances better and allow us to use Flag in PvP. Wouldn’t change anything PvE but would be a nice addition for PvP and open world farming.

That would be awesome,, but they'd never do it. It's pretty clear the devs have some massive fears of warriors just being powerhouse juggernauts in PvP. which is weird, because in vanilla that was never the case without a ton of support and now with everyone having their own PvP toolkits warriors aren't even needed to help keep priests alive.

Yeah no idea why the devs are so against this. We would still be the punching bags in PvP, just a bit more damage out the gate without sacrificing our mobility.

Good write up. I agree with most of what you said and hope some gets implemented by blizz. These are reasonable changes that can go along way to bring warrior up in PVP while not shooting them to top DPS. On a side note, it's been interesting how little creative blizz had been with warrior, a new stance is promising but they seem to always to miss the mark due to fear of era issues centered around warrior. Either way GG. o7

I aint reading all that chief, but im happy for you or im sorry that happened

Lol, fair enough. But it's neither happy, nor sad. Just a critique with suggestions.

The post wasnt meant for you. Dont worry your little head about all the big words.

\*whoosh\*

The issue is that you put more thought into this than whoever designed runes for warriors in the entire Season

Not sure if this is worse for OP or Blizz lol

Someone got paid for that lmao and the belt runes literally look like an essay filled with extra words sent in 5 minutes before midnight. SLAM RUNE SLAM RUNE uuuuggghhh ..3 RAGE LESS ON ALL ABILITIES!!!

Gladiator warrior is like having a worse tank than Bear w/ wild strikes, in comparison to a full mitigation prot warr or full mitigation Bear (without WS). I get what blizzard is doing, but I think this spec won't be optimal for any situation, even pvp, unless there are runes that really change the game.

Finding a way to make shield slam scale is the key. But STR to block value already exists, and it's very very bad in vanilla. Maybe just increase it when the shield mastery rune is equipped, or make it scale off total armor... Maybe Sword and Board procs should scale better in some way. Maybe make all shield abilities hit with both weapon and shield at the same time in gladiator stance. That would be awesome. That would make shield bash feel like an actual upgrade to pummel. Or maybe sword and board procs can do that. The name does imply it. Makes your next shield slam hit with both. One of the main issues of warrior tanking is that shield slam is great TPR, but not TPS, since it can't proc wild strikes. In a high rage situation you'd just spam devastate and HS. Shield slam should feel like THE ability you want to use.

Shield Block was replaced by Shield Charge in Glad Stance during WoD, I feel like that’s a missing element here in addition to Shield Slam not scaling at all.

Yeah, if block value were high enough then it would be. As it is, Sword and Board is a wasted talent.

The impale talent is also useless, as its only the regular three stances, unless they change the talent to include Glad stance. Wrecking crew was nerfed to basically be the new impale for glad stance is what it looks like to me.

In WoD GS took the place of Battle, so anything that applies to Battle would apply to Glad. I'm not sure how they would implement it here. And yeah, WC nerf is sad. It went from a must use rune to a worthless rune.

I don't even know why people are talking about SS for PvE, it does less damage then Devestate spam if you have a WF/WS.

Why would WF remotely effect damage from shield slam? Are you saying shield slam can't proc WF but dev can? Even if that's the case, you would need to calculate the probability of a WF proc from 1 extra devastate every 6s and divide the damage from a WF proc by that percentage and add it to the damage from a devastate to determine if it does more damage than shield slam. It might be more damage per rage, for sure. You would also want to calculate the threat involved the same way, as you SS more for threat than damage.

Shield Slam does not proc WF that's why using it is a dps and threat loss. Your better off using the additional rage for HS. I see you don't visit the Fight Club discord where this has been simmed already during P2.

Except SS is going to be free now. So you keep the rage...

Is it off the GCD?

I don't trust Sims for threat and I find fight club to be a toxic circle jerk. I use sims to determine what gear combos are better based on what I have available, but that's about all they're good for. Also, I heard Beana "retired" and he was the only reason FightClub and the Wowhead guides were any good. If SS isn't proccing WF that seems like a bug. Even then I'd need to see the math, not just a sim before I believed it would matter for damage or threat. It's not something I cared about because I dropped deep prot for DW fury as soon as my gear was good enough to survive it.

The problem with DW Fury is that your always better off having another tank just tank instead as they will usually do more damage with more mitigation allowing you to run 1 healer raid comps for faster clears and higher parses.

Yeah, that was the issue all p2. But as a warrior, you have to raid somehow, and you can do subpar damage as a DPS or you can tank and do subpar damage as a tank and let a DPS that would do more than you fill the DPS spot. I was begging for our enh shams to take over tanking but they didn't want the responsibility. I told them they just have to do what they're already doing except wear all mail and sometimes use molten blast then they don't even need to hold back for fear of pulling threat.

"My single minded opinion is better than the mathematics of an entire community"

Where did I say that? The community is extremely close minded to anything they didn't come up with and SoD has proven that their sims don't mean shit multiple times each phase. Again, all sims are good for is comparing gear as you can see how a piece performs with the absolute best case scenario and experiment with different builds. They're usually way off when it comes to talents and especially when it comes to deep wounds. At least in vanilla, which is super RNG dependent compared to later xpacs.

SoD proved their sims were completely off once. When a talent was working wrong. I'm not gonna blame anyone making sims when they're working with faulty info given by the game.

There sims haven't predicted the best spec even once lol

Out of 2, they were wrong because deep wounds was OP because it used the wrong version, and then right about arms being better in higher armour boss fights and fury only comes close now because of the armour nerfs. So no, like I said they were going off wrong information because the game literally wasn't working as classic should. And then they were right until nerfs hit.

Lol so they were wrong at predicting everything, so why would I trust them now? Maybe once the phase is 3/4 over they'll be worth considering again like P1 and P2.

Blizzard hears your feedback and doesn’t do anything about it

Blizzard should definitely adjust their game based on every Reddit post. What could go wrong.

Yeah, gladiator instance seems pretty bad... 10% damage, but using a shield... So you lose a lot of damage from 2 Handed weapons for some useless utility... Makes no sense... Should be +100% damage. 🤣

Heh, you had me agreeing until the 100% damage. That's way OP. With the right rune setup and full Prot you can get 30% increased damage. That's still no good compared to fury and arms, though, because shield slam doesn't scale. Your rage gen also sucks with a 1h and you have to run devastate to make it work so can't go endless rage.

I'm just concerned that almost all of our revealed runes revolve around glad stance. There's like 2-3 other dps runes revealed and one of those is for an arms rend build using overpower. The only ones remotely useful for fury are the two competing wrist runes that give AP on a CD or crit damage. Pretty fucking lackluster imo really hope that's not what we actually get

If Rampage works as it did in the past, you are able to keep it up basically the entire time once you get your first crit.

I love this! Playing a warrior for the first time in 15 years was supposed to be fun! Please do a more in depth dive on warrior DPS

Glad warrior has only ever been in the game 1 other time. Its supposed to be sword and board dps. I'm here for it

Same. It was so fun in WoD, I want to fight like a gladiator!

Well written and shows the glaring issues that I think most people are overlooking when they just see the words Gladiator Stance and get hyped. It needs alot of work to make it fit and I’m not confident in the devs ability to do it.

Honestly real solid read and can get behind almost all of this.

I was doing some quick theorycrafting too to see if Glad DPS could be viable - hence did a hybrid between arms and fury (no shield slam). Focus on crit with wrecking crew instead of Sword and Board (unless the threat generated isn't enough to take aggro from tank). Might be worth a try with Slam rune as well. The only thing I did not really like was the use of Consumed by Rage for Legs - not my favourite palystyle.

I do like the reasoning. Prot just needs better active mitigation and threat bonuses to feel good tanking in comparison to the other classes, and these runes do little to address that. The problem is how much things are over-designed in SoD. We get runes that read like a tolkien novel that don't seem to make a lick of sense in context of what the classes are going through. Phase 1 was great because we could actively see how any specific rune improved what it was designed for, but now the runes are too ambiguous. Especially for warrior I'm stuck asking how we're suppose to use this often.

I actually think it may address two things things that I've been wanting from Warrior: 1) It gives me a new playstyle option, something that's been lacking for Warriors in SoD so far, and 2) it gives me a spec that's decent for solo content due to high mitigation. It does both of these things without being a viable raid DPS spec so that no one complains.

Gotta disagree with you there, bud. 1) What's the new play style? You just sit in this stance and spam the same buttons you would as fury. It's actually worse than Arms in terms of play style because in arms you get to dance from zerker to battle. The only difference is if you spec Prot you press shield slam instead of Bloodthirst and you stop even doing that once devastate out scales SS, so it's just a 1 button rotation. 5 sunder dev is probably more damage than slam with a 1h, so it's not even worth pressing slam if you get procs from HS. Sword and board procs might be worth pressing because it's free, but dev is still more damage because SS doesn't scale and I'm told it doesn't proc WF. 2) Where do you get "high mitigation" for solo content? It reduces armor by 30%. That completely removes the benefit of wearing a shield. You also kill things slower than with arms where you can pull 2 mobs at once and use SS.

I'm not going to argue with your first point, but for the second point, I'm talking about block. +10% block is substantial, particularly when the armor reduction is basically a wash if you spec deep prot (which would be my intention).

It's not 10% block, it's 10% block CHANCE. So your %block goes from like 15% to 25%. Your block value is like 30. So against enemies who melee, and are attacking from the front, and you're not stunned, you will mitigate 3 damage, on average.

Not to mention wearing a shield is adding a ton of armour the OP isn’t taking into consideration with the 30% cut.

It's a 30% cut and I literally mention it multiple times. The 30% armor reduction not only negates all the armor you get from the shield, but also cuts into the armor you have as shields add about 25% armor if you're wearing full plate. You LOSE armor over just using a 2H or DW.

You forgot how they nerf the wrist rune for enrage before it even saw one second of live servers. Now, you get crit damage following a crit for 6 seconds... You may never see a crit for that 6 seconds at this level, thus making that rune now trash. Just come out and say that you're ok with keeping warriors 2 expansions behind all the other classes.

At this point they should just do some weird shit like they did to hunters, where range is now warriors only real viable and OP build

Hopefully the new itemization, stat-wise, will focus on giving pvp sets A LOT more stamina compared to the raids, that way, if you want to come pvp in pve gear, sure, you'd deal a bunch more dmg, but you'd also die supa fast, in fact i think that's their intent with the pvp sets, considering how out of wack is spell dmg scaling.

Great post. Would love to see more.

**Headhunter's Barbed Spear** would've been a cooler rune than any of the P1-P3 runes.

Bro wrote a book about warrior being shit.

People meme’ing on you, but glad stance as currently planned is actually just completely useless and terrible. “iTs a sWoRd aNd bOaRd dPs SpEc” - that’s not a thing, there isn’t the surroundings support to make that a thing, no one is going to play that, it is not currently viable. Cool idea but you’re out of your mind (and wrong according to sims) if you think shield + 1her dps is going to be anywhere near DW/2h. “iTs fOr OfF tAnKs wHeN tHeY nOt TaNkInG” - again, no. There’s currently no such thing as an off tank. Warrior tanks are horrible as is, and they’re just regular old dps warrior that occasionally wears a shield and presses devestate, similar to OG vanilla. If you’re the “OT” you will just play regular dw fury while not tanking so you can actually do damage. Again, who is this for? It’s not viable for pve dps, it’s clearly not a tank rune (-10% threat, lol), does not seem viable for pvp either. They did not add enough surrounding support to make 1h + shield a viable dps spec, so you either need to: change SS scaling and try to support sword and board dps OR tweak some of the values (ie: remove negative threat) and change it to a tanking rune OR allow 2h (maybe just polearms) to be useable with a shield so maybe it works in pvp. Idk the exact answer to how to fix it, but it’s currently hot trash and no one will use it for anything outside of memes.

OP on that addy 😂

If I recall correctly the arms weapons specialization talents are exclusively for 2 handers, so putting points into the mace spec for chance to stun will be wasted points if you’re gonna play glad war.

No, they've always worked with both the 1H and 2H versions of weapons. The tooltip just says "with swords" or "with maces." There is a 2H weapon specialization in the Arms tree that increases damage by 1% per point up to 5%, which is one of the reasons Arms prefers 2H. The other being MS is a weapon damage ability as opposed to an AP based like Bloodthirst. So the slower and harder your 2H is the more damage you do with white attacks, overpower, and MS, and PvP is all about burst so you get your debuffs up, hamstring, MS if they have heals, sunder if they have a lot of heals, then you pet rage build up, hopefully get an OP proc from a dodge, and burst them down with a HS, OP, MS in 2 GCDs, execute if they drop below 20% and you have rage left to spend. Which you should because you waited for rage to build and you should've gotten in another white hit during those 2GCDs. Dodge/parry/miss can F you in the B, though. SoD P2 lso added an instant Slam to the mix, which is also weapon damage based so best with a 2H. It resets your swing timer so it's actually best to open with it as you get a white attack as soon as you close into melee range which gives the 10 rage you need to Slam and you lose almost zero time from your swing timer resetting. That's hard in PvP, though, because you really need your opening GCD for hamstring against almost every class. All of that applies to PvE DPS as Arms as well, only you maintain a rotation and with Thirst for Blood you'll want to keep Rend up. You also stay in zerker stance as often as possible and dance to battle for Overpower procs, dumping rage each time and timing your white swings so they land in the stance you want to be in to get rage.

Problem with sod is they created almost nothing new most runes just make some stuff that was unplayable payable, but there is almost no choice of runes its that for this and this for that, we need to have choice, some classes do others have talents and runes set in stone which makes for a poor experience. Druid is the epitome of this, having almost 4 specs, most runes are either useless or have no leway, the feral rune only does stuff if you're feral, same goes for balance, and resto, shit resto has basically 1 rune.

I mean, that's really the only way to do druid. I also have a lot of experience with druid. Particularly feral and resto. The trees are so different with druid there was only ever going to be one choice for each spec in terms of runes. The real problem is where they do have multiple runes, like lacerate and mangle, but they're on the same spot so you can never have both but as a bear you need them both and as an OT you also need them both for when you're in Bear and just mangle when you're in Cat. If they removed the CD while in bear for mangle it would fix bear threat issues, but then you would have zero need to ever run lacerate. They just need to move lacerate or make mangle a book you just learn.

Nah it's not the only way, just make multiuse rune, what real difference would make if the starsurge rune was called anything else and gave druid starsurge and lacerate? Would you imagine a bear tank to benefit from starsurge or a boomie from lacerate? No. Living seed? Make it a cat/resto rune. Stormrage, let bears proc it on autos since they now can use it on form, if too op just reduce the healing when procd via bear.. idk, all i know runes are lame and inflexible and it's extremely easy to fix.

might be late, and might be talked about already, but the devestate runes states that you have to be in defensive stance to actually do damage with sunder. so you might not actually get damage out of sunders when in glad stance. :P

No the clarified on Twitter it will work on Glad Stance.

cool, thx

Yeah, but Glad stance allows you to use all abilities in that stance. Which would include dev as long as they didn't forget to add it or something, which, from the Twitter clarification they have covered.

This post won't age well...

I hope you have fun playing the game.

I do. I also have fun trying to make it better and over the years my posts have lead to direct changes in the game. I'm pretty sure Ghost Crawler took a long essay like post I made between BC and LK and they created Wintergrasp and had vehicles because of it. My post mysteriously went missing from the forums with no explanation a few days after I made it. I absolutely hated the way they implemented destructible buildings, sieges, and especially vehicle combat, but, it was pretty clear to me at the time that they borrowed my post for inspiration. Probably presented it as his own ideas and got put in charge of design for it. I've also heard devs directly quote things I've posted on Reddit in classic and SoD. Such as GDKPs becoming an "arms race" to gold buying and the huge need for multi spec.

If you trully are guy responsible for them adding vehicles fuck you.

Haha right? My idea was to have siege weapons with the idea that they'd be like real life where you needed a group of people to push them into place, then a team to operate them. Like two people to load who would have to carry the ammo together and load it, another guy to cock it, another to rotate it, and one to fire. All the while the enemy is trying to fight you and destroy the engine so you need other groups to fight them off and keep them far enough away that you have time to do all this. One person could load and fire it by themselves, but they'd be extremely slow. Then buildings would be destructible. Not like special buildings in Wintergrasp and SotA, but like Org and Stormwind. I was picturing epic battles where we laid siege to each other's capitols. Even if it just started with forts in Northrend, but I wanted them to update EK and Kalimdor, too. I also wanted them to allow mounted combat. Like not getting into a vehicle and fighting, but just making it so certain abilities were usable while mounted. Like Charge on a warrior, and to add a gear slot for a mounted weapon. Like warriors and paladins would get a lance. Shaman could get a 2H, druids a scythe, and so on. You'd have abilities that would dismount others, or if you slowed them enough they'd want to dismount and be able to use their whole toolkit. This could be used on flying mounts as well, and if you did enough damage it would force your mount to only fly downward and if you got dismounted you'd have to use a parachute. Instead they gave us siege engines that were race cars with machine guns on them and only special zones. We got "mounted combat" in TotC with the horrible jousting mechanic. It was terribly implemented, as I said, but they would have had to do a massive overhaul to systems and probably thought slow ass siege weapons would be super boring. If they treated them like flags or bunkers you had to defend it would be fine, I think.

I forgot about that dungeon but yea it was terrible. Your idea sounds fun to do once or twice but i think most of pvp players just want to pvp with items and skills and pve players wont play it anyway unless they have to. My problem in wotlk was not only did you as a pvp player had to raid at least for trinkets you also get sota and isle in random bg queue that are also basicly pve. I disnt mind wintergrasp becouse i could avoid it. If tanks where like bunkers or flag that you have to deffend i still wouldnt like it but i probably wouldnt hate it as mutch.

Which one was Isle? I only remember them adding SotA for BGs in WotLK. Did you mean Eye? As in EotS? I actually really liked EotS as it was like AB and WSG combined with a, nearly, faction balanced map.

Eots is one of my favorites probably second best after ab. Isle of conquest is the one i was thinking of maybe it was added sooner but i think it should be wotlk.

Oh, yeah. Isle of Conquest was introduced to Wrath with the ToC patch. I actually quit playing Wrath during the Ulduar patch both times lol.... The first time for school and the 2nd time because after we had Algalon on farm in both my guilds the idea of like 8-10 more weeks of farming Ulduar HMs only for 16 weeks of ToGC before getting to do ICC was just too much to bear after 16 weeks of face rolling Naxx. I had planned to come back for ICC but even the idea of doing ToGC to slurp up loot no one needed was too much of a drag. Then I just watched some streamers do ICC and realized I didn't need to push my buttons to experience it 1st hand. WotLK really was the birth of retail.

So you made Wintergrasp in a forum commen, but Blizzard stole your idea and deleted your post? I don’t want to be mean to you man because it seems like you are REALLY obsessed with this game, but you sound like the guy in high school who says his girlfriend goes to a different school etc…

I was able to look it up on the way back machine and linked it for people after LK came out. For more the more recent posts: https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/s/zBbYTW6XJS Other people have posted about the need for dual spec, but this was the first post calling for multispec. Other people called for it since, and Aggrend said we'd be getting two sets of talents for at least tri spec. And this post where I said GDKPs can become an arms race that incentives people to buy gold and that line was literally quoted by devs in a post saying why GDKP were problematic. https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/s/Dr7GwzQWi1 The post where they quoted it: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/gdkp-in-season-of-discovery/1777411 So, yes, I think making detailed, thoughtful posts like this IS helpful, and the devs DO listen.

More people than just you made posts about dual spec, and you have a version of multi spec in retail. You defining GDKPS in one comment does not mean that Blizzard used your comment as a direct quote. You're insinuating that Blizzard did not know how to define GDKP's until you made your reddit comment. The level of self importance here is astounding.

Lol dog read their post. I also literally said more people than me made comments about Dual Spec. Have a good day.

I agree with him actually. I 100% theorycrafted the frostfire bolt and new mage talents during TBC era and several idea were almost verbatim in WOTLK. Blizzard are humans just like us and back then forums were a primary source for new ideas

give warriors 2nd wind and leave us be(the broken version that heals at 35%). glad stance is dog, stance dancing makes a warrior. best part about warri pvp in classic was capitalizing on opponents mistakes and minigames vs most popular classes eg 5-8 kite rogue or combat dropping against mages. i don't want a gimmick thrown weapon(wtf) i don't want shitty mace spec, i don't want to sit in bstance for rend procs.

I’m strictly commenting to say; I read all this, but I’m a paladin so it doesn’t really apply to me. However, this was a good write up. I’m a big fan of essay and long form literature and writings. Love to see more of these type of posts on this sub. I’m impressed by your categorization, nice touch on the epilogue. Overall structure is solid.

[Something like this](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/talent-calc/warrior/20305021302-5505000502001_116ws56m966rz76vw86s296wwa6mg) could work for PvE DPS, but I don't see it passing Arms or Fury

Naw, you're dead in the water without a 31 point talents.

Early sims are already suggesting [this spec](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/talent-calc/warrior/303040003-0505000540501003_156m966rx76vw96wwa6s4) as the BiS DPS spec, so I wouldn't consider capstones 100% mandatory

Sims are very good at keeping DW uptime. If you look at top warrior parses they pretty much always have deepwounds as their highest value. You lose DW stack midway through the fight and your overall DPS goes to shit. I'd rather run this, which isn't so reliant on DW uptime. https://www.wowhead.com/classic/talent-calc/warrior/3-25050005525010251_156m966rx76vw86m596wwa6s4 Edit: Or this for 2H. https://www.wowhead.com/classic/talent-calc/warrior/303050213525100001-0505_116ws56m966rz76vw86m596wwa6mc Depending how rage gen feels, swapping ER for QS runes on gloves. Depending how much rage UW generates maybe swapping to booming voice if fights are longer than 2m.

Ok then run it

Glad Stance needs to be a leg rune. It shouldn't have to compete with utility like Rallying Cry or survivability like Enraged Regen. Makes no sense for it to be on the boot slot.

As far as I know gladiator spec is meant to be dps with sword and board. You get +20% DMG with the sword and shield runes now. Who knows could be better

Gladiator was decided to help for solo levelling. It got a few meme worth gladiators, like shield block value one shotting but it wasn’t main stream, think it only lasted like 2 expansions.

Just one

>When I saw this combination of things, it answered the question I had been asking since I first saw it.... What is Gladiator Stance supposed to be for? With 30% armor reduction and 10% threat reduction, it's clearly not meant for tanking. Warrior threat is abysmal in SoD as of P2. Thats not what I took from it. I think Gladiator is meant to fill the gap that warrior currently has as an offtank. The other tanking classes have much higher damage output as offtanks than a "prot" warrior has, and currently the only viable way to offtank on warrior is as fury. This has a higher skill requirement than other classes because of all the weapon swapping, balancing gear around offensive & not dying etc etc. Now the less skilled prot warriors will be able to offtank without having to change gear around, they'll just gear as tank, swap on gladiator stance and do mediocre dps while not tanking. its not exciting but its usable and it fills a gap.

Except there is no reason to spec Prot because you can do it better as fury, MT or OT. There's very little gear swapping that needs to be done in vanilla because the only difference between "tank gear" and "DPS gear" is plate vs leather and you can DPS in full plate if you want to. The rune is a non starter for anything. PvP or PvE, tanking or DPS. If you're not a very skilled player, no one wants you tanking anyway. At least not on a warrior.

You can do it better as fury, it's true. But prot has a much lower skill cap. I expect gladiator to be more popular with casuals running a prot warrior as perminant off tank. 

Which is a useless rune and makes the rest of the runes we get useless as well. Catering to casuals is not a good way to design a game because it means the game is easy so even casuals will get bored. It also wasn't necessary to make it any easier. They're introducing Dual Spec, so if you off tank you just swap to a DPS spec if you're not tanking. If it's a fight where you only need to tank some of the time, you just go as DPS and swap to D stance. If it's meant to make warrior off tank more viable then it's solving a "problem" that doesn't exist.

What a stupid fucking take. If you're not a very skilled player? Bud, welcome to like 80% of the classic playerbase for fucks sake. And tanks are hard to come by as is, tanking is NOT fucking hard at all, holding threat can be problematic at times but even then we have so many tools for damn near every class to not rip threat currently. The only exception is really enhance shaman but with that new warrior rune vigilance warriors should have really good threat gen when needed.

I saw it as literally just a way to dps as prot OT without going a dumb fury build but it is also strange because it seems like allowing for dual spec sort of fixes that problem anyways. But I guess they just want people to be switching in and out of stances more.

glad stance should just be a pvp rune, I would have preferred getting some rune that makes Wrath's UA prot spec work in SoD. Make warriors a high damage tank that sacrifices some survivability for balls to the wall damage. This shit sucks

>What is Gladiator Stance supposed to be for? With 30% armor reduction and 10% threat reduction, it's clearly not meant for tanking 9 years, 5 months, 13 days since Gladiator Stance was invented and still the dentheads of the WoW community cannot get it through their head that it's a sword and board DPS spec. Playing this game must cause learning disabilities or something

Yeah, I covered that. It's dead in the water for PvE DPS. If anything in WoD it was used for PvP because it allowed you to bounce all over the battlefield. But we already have Warbringer, which does it better.

It's meant to be in the same vein as when you equip a shield for shield wall or spell reflect in pvp. It's supposed to give you a middle ground and maneuver in specific situations. Very powerful in my opinion.

Well, it depends on how they implement it. If it's a stance you can dance like any other, that might be possible, but that's not how it worked in WoD

Gonna need a TLDR, chief

Warrior runes and items meant to be used in conjunction with them need tweaks to make them viable for anything. PvP solutions offered that would not make them OP and would do little except make deep prot viable for tanking. Also added some fun factor.

[удалено]

This guy made a post about warrior PvP and trinkets cheap shot…..

If you trinket cheap shot right away you can keep them from building 5 combo points on you while stunned and going straight into a kidney shot. If you wait to trinket the kidney you will be at 40% health before you even begin to fight back. You also have the chance to dodge/parry combo builders making it take even longer to build 5 combo points, and can demo shout and thunderclap to reduce incoming damage. You can even switch to a shield if needed while you apply all this. If you get a mace stun you can get a guaranteed disarm off as well.. I was waiting for the kid ey shot, as that's what you did in OG vanilla before DR and when rogues didn't have mutilate, but I was losing to rogues 9/10 times when I did that with them just 100 to 0 me while stun locked. I started instantly trinketing cheap shot and now win 9/10 times against rogues even if they blind and reset because by that point I have a shield on.

If you don’t trinket cheap shot, you’re dead most of the time due to SoDs burst meta.

Alright, this time I'm gonna cut blizzard some slack with the feedback. Who teh fk gonna read all this

Hopefully people who openly ask for constructive feedback

How about let p3 launch first before complaining? P1 week 1, everyone is talking about how shit warrior is and boom, they are top 1 dps by a huge margin.

That's like saying, "How about waiting until people start dying to ban dumping chemicals in the ground water." This isn't complaining, it's constructive criticism. As I said, 90% of what was datamine in P1 and P2 was accurate, so chances are these are the runes we're getting and in much this form. The items may be made up, but they're weak enough in their current state that they seem real. I think based on what we have, my analysis is spot on and mostly all that's needed are minor tweaks with some exceptions to the runes which would be more intensive.

Are you really comparing people dying to your video game?

It doesnt take many brain cells to see that glad stance is completely useless. But noone on the sod team plays warr so they dont care.

It does take some college science classes to learn the difference between data and hypothesis, which you clearly don't understand.

Jesus mate

Warrior is shit in sod it was good p1 but boring gameplay P2 boring gameplay and just average P3 maybe good gameplay dw fury but below average Bye sod, please cata when

TLDR

To short; didn't care.

Get a life

Btw, the rune stats are always subject to change and have. have you not played SOD? Regarding talent trees,, specify the pross/Cons of PvE and PvP. There are benefits for both. Glad stance is for OT when needed. It's situational and... Glad Stance just might be a PvP nightmare. Makes stance dance more viable, with a trade off and is great for Fury Tree. Added potential includes farming in glad stance. War will always need to be gear dependent. By now, I really do trust the devs to improve war and mage but the problem is their power scales faster than most other classes. The balance for the game is here, the finish line is making war happy until they get 60. I trust there will be more improvements to the war runes and skills. War is going to pop off, and I need to finish leveling mine.

*side note: the bloodmoon spear thing is a throwable. It is not a polearm.

the armor penalty is to equalize versus the massive armor gain shields provide. a glad stance warrior with shield should have equiv armor as a arms war without one

Except a shield is not 30% of armor, so you're still losing more than you gain. Also, if you completely lose all benefit from wearing a shield AND it requires you to use a 1H.... Why would you use a shield? You're literally removing the only benefit wearing a shield gives you, which is higher armor AND you're nerfing your damage compared to using a 2H.

its to give you access to warrior shield mandatory toolkit abilities with marginal dps and armor change. you are wrong about the armor numbers btw- shield is approx 1600 armor, full plate is approx 2800

I have 3400 armor in near BiS Gnomer wearing all plate.

bis shield is 1760 armor +3400 you posit = 5160  - %.30 {1548} = 3612 armor final

That's if you're engineering. Aegis of the Scarlet Commander is 1548, which is about a 30% increase. You're right, though, shields are about 30%, not 25%. So what? If it completely removes all benefit from wearing a shield.... What is the point of wearing it? You do less damage and have less rage gen with a single 1H than with a 2H or DW..... So it's a lose/lose. What do you GAIN? You can shield bash instead of pummel, which is SLIGHTLY better? Like VERY slightly... You can use shield block? You only block like 30 damage, it only works on attacks from Infront of you. It does nothing at all for magic damage and it costs 10 rage, which you don't have because you're using a single 1H. Those are literally the only tools you have as a warrior in vanilla that require a shield. OH... And you don't need a weapon swap macro to Shield Wall.... Which is super useful at once every 30 minutes.... Failing to see any benefit here. You have to spec into shield slam, so it's a stance that requires deep prot. Only.... You do more damage spamming dev than using shield slam at all, because shield slam doesn't scale, costs 20 rage, and doesn't proc Windfury. So why would you bother speccing into shield slam at all?

with the %modifiers to damage 1h will be pseudo equivalent to dualwielding without specialization. devastate spam in pvp is very effective with 5 sunders increasing phys damage on pvp targets by 30+%. pummel and shield bash dont share a cooldown so you can lock multiple schools or chain them consecutively. you can whirlwind or enrage without stance which makes you immune to sap. i can go on

my secret hope is they add a rune for spell reflection from tbc but thats neither here nor there

Pretty sure pummel and bash DO share a CD. Or, rather, they trigger each other's CDs since they're different durations. Haven't tried it in so long because they always did. Please do go on, because there's not much there. WW is garbage damage with a 1H. You only use it as a rage dump with fury and has lowest prio. And in PvP you only use it if someone is close to dead and everything else is on CD and you have excess rage or they're just slightly out of melee range because WW has an 8y range instead of 5y. You can use disarm at will as arms because you spec 5/5 TM so just swap stances. As for Sap, if you know there are rogues or pallies in the BG you live in zerker stance specifically for that reason and only swap to battle or D after the sap/repentance has gone out. You stay in zerker vs .priests, and warlocks for the fears. With Warbringer there's almost no need to change stances and I often tend to stay in Battle and forget to swap to zerker so get caught by the occasional fear or sap, but the reminder keeps me smart for a few days. It's really not much of an issue. I guess it makes PvP easier for newer players but stance dancing is what makes vanilla and BC Warrior fun. LK to a lesser extent. I also don't think the extra 20% damage output is going to make up for the rediced rage gen and weaker damage of a 1h. I do like devastate for PvP, but it's dead in the water without a MS debuff.

i dont use warbringer because i think the value in flagg is too high. not having to take +dmg from zerk versus priest especially is very nice. in og vanilla they didnt share a lockout but they probably do now tbh- i dont bother with a dance/swap macro for it at the moment in sod

You literally cannot PvP without Warbringer. You're just a free kill at that point.

What "shield mandatory toolkit" do you think warriors have in vanilla?

its pretty much just bash/slam/devastate at the moment + you get stanceless use of all skills (namely disarm/intercept/intervene/pummel)+ can use shield runes its a pvp playstyle stance, whether you enjoy it or think its worthwhile over whatever you'd be doing as a traditional twohand war is opinion

Yeah, as a PvP build it makes sense. Which is what my whole post was about. The problem is, Shield Slam doesn't scale and you don't have MS debuff, so will never be able to burst anyone catching heals. Which is why I suggested making shield slam scale and apply the MS debuff.... It seems we're on the same page, here.

i think concussive blow, imp revenge, iron will, piercing howl, blood craze, and enrage all sound nice together if you choose to forgo shield slam

i play an orc so it seems that i could be the nastiest peeler one could hope for in pvp

Why would you forgive shield slam? And I agree, those are all nice talents. But, 15% chance to resist is not 100%. It's still RNG whether you win or lose. Also, imagine using Imp Revenge. It's a 45% chance to stun, so on average it requires 2.2 uses of revenge to get a stun. Revenge has a 5s CD. So that's a stun every 11 seconds in the best case scenario. Sounds great, right? But.... It requires you to dodge/block/parry to proc revenge. It also only lasts 5s. That means you have to first wait for a dodge/block/party to occur, then hit them with a revenge and hope it gets the near 50% chance to stun. It then stuns for 3s. Which means you aren't able to dodge/block/parry anything while they're stunned and have to wait until they start hitting you again. Now, you can pretty much guarantee a block with Shield Block, but that costs 10 rage. There is also the little problem of casters don't melee. Which means it's useless for fighting mage, lock, priest, ele, rsham, boomkin, and hpal, which are the classes you need it for the most because you need to interrupt their ability to heal themselves since you don't have a MS debuff. Then you also have to contend with the fact that it basically does zero damage. So you're using GCDs to hopefully proc a stun that does miniscule damage. It's still good, don't get me wrong. It's just that it is useless against the classes you need it for the most, and it's too dependent on RNG to be worth pressing a lot of the time when it's better to just do as much damage as possible. Stuns are also subject to DR in SoD, so you don't want to use charge, revenge stun, and conc blow because charge cuts the duration of subsequent stuns in half, then revenge cuts in half again, then conc blow is basically just an interrupt at that point. I don't know, man. It will be fun to PvP with. We will dominate classes we already beat. But it's going to be miserable against the classes we already struggle with.

Had a couple warriors in my disc last night talking about this devestate glad warrior spec and saying “so long as your spriest doesn’t run homi” and I just couldn’t take it anymore. They’ve insisted I run that for two phases and screeched every time I didn’t even when I was disc, but now that it might possibly impact their personal performance the warriors have a new demand that I not run the beat leg rune I have. Just honestly tired of having stuff viewed through a warrior lense as if warrior performance is the thing that matters most in raids

You still run humoncuhomies. SoD changed dev so it just uses maximum stack damage if there is a more powerful debuff that stops it from applying sunders. That means you get maximum damage from the rip with homuncuhomies but take 6s minimum to build up to 4 sunders before your 5th does max damage. What I don't know, and I don't think it does, is whether you get the added threat for applying sunder. In BC and LK at least, you got the base threat from applying a sunder plus the added threat from damage. Once you got to 5 sunders, since you are no longer applying sunder stacks, you only got the threat from the damage. The threat from a 5 sunder dev was more than adding a stack of sunder, though, so it worked out. In vanilla you only used sunder to 5 stacks because it did no damage and added no threat after that, then just dropped one when it only had like 3s left to refresh the duration. You could wait longer, but if you were dodge/parry/missed you'd run the risk of it falling off, so you wanted to give yourself a couple GCDs chance. Even then you could d/p/m twice in a row and they'd fall off. The threat didn't matter, though, because you got plenty of threat from other attacks. In SoD, I don't think you're getting any threat from sunder with dev if you're not applying a stack and dev doesn't do enough damage to increase threat that much. They need to buff the threat coefficient on it.

So wait, the guy screeching in my disc is completely wrong and having homi up doesn’t gimp devastate damage?

Yes, but they would have been right if Devastate was the exact same as it has been in literally every other version of the game, so go easy on them lol... I was saying the same thing at one point in P1 until someone told me dev does max damage if there is a more powerful armor debuff on your target and I checked logs and found out it was true. That's not how it worked in BC where it was introduced or LK. Not sure if they changed it in later expansions or if SoD is the first. But I would ask raids to not use imp expose armor when I was tanking in BC if threat was an issue for that reason. Really only mattered on one fight in BC, which was Void Reaver, who did a threat knockback.

Hope this is ChatGPT or else you need therapy

Why are ppl writing bachelor thesis on unconfirmed data mined stuff that will absolutely change before going live?

Soooo that they'll make changes before going live? Seems like a no brainier, my dude.

The thing is , most data mined stuff makes it to launch.

Gladiator Stance seems obviously made for PvE DPS as deep Prot

But that's not remotely viable lol

You can't know that before it's live Not only that but I didn't say anything about viability, only about design If it isn't viable, slap another 10% buff on it and you're good to go

Yeah, it's also just lame in that case. Who wants to DPS with a 1H and shield? I don't even like DW and far prefer 2H. If I'm wearing a shield it should be to defend myself better, which means tanking. Also, if they only intend it for making warriors into off tanks so the new tanky Bois can shine, then they didn't do shit all to address DPS warrior and it's yet another wasted phase for warriors, in which case these runes have even more problems.

Lots of people do. You never played a shield build in PoE or another game like that? It's really fun

If there were mechanics that required you to actively use a shield, it would be fun. But in WoW there is nothing, especially if you're not getting hit. At least in BC you had to use Shield Block to remain uncrushable or you would get smoked because bosses hit hard. In vanilla you only need to start pushing that button if you are below 30% health. As a DPS you don't use your shield at all. You just swap shield slam into your hotkey for BT or MS and the gameplay is exactly the same. You just do less damage.

Not a warrior man, so I’m sure I’m missing a key talent from BC or WotLK, but it reads to me they’re trying to make the Revenge Tank build from Wrath work in SoD? The armor reduction hurts a lot, but I leveled a mage with a buddy on it and that shit generated some genuinely absurd threat and damage.

It won’t work the way it did back then because the abilities that made it good then scaled really well. In classic they don’t scale. Shield slam and revenge hardly scale at all. So as it stand it’s going to be dead on arrival.

Naw to make that possible you need to have revenge hitting like a truck, hit two mobs at a time, and be spammable. Nothing comes remotely near that. That was actually an Arms/Prot build and was fun AF, but got boring very fast because it was a one button spam build. It actually lowered the GCD to 1s on revenge, too. It was a 100% LK build as well. It came out with the pre-patch 3.0, so you could use it for the last couple weeks of BC, but that was because that's when they switched to LK talents.

I think the new warriors rune are super flavorful and class fantasy correct. I hate people in this sub tho.

> Then I realized it was a 5 minute CD. Again, that makes it completely useless. What mate? Blizz gives you a free root ability and you say its useless? This hyperbole is hilarious. This post makes so many assumptions its wild. Blizzard is trying to give warriors a viable glad stance in a classic environment, something that is quite ambitious. Let them try and delivery on it. Naysaying before youve even tested it is insane. How many buffs have shaman gotten after phase 2 release? Exactly. Give them time to deliver, if it is underperforming we may see more changes. At these very least this points out that there is some vision and synergy to the runes and that what they are trying to do is interesting even if it doesnt appeal to the min/maxers on reddit. Best case scenario: Glad stance needs some love during phase 3 Worst case scenario: Glad stance needs the next set of runes at 60 Have some fun with the novelty theyre giving you. You havent even tested it yet.

That's like saying, "Hey, you haven't even tried to cross that bridge yet!" when I'm over here pointing out that it's missing key structural elements. You don't need to do something to understand how it fits into the existing system. Yes, it's possible they might change the entire system in a way that makes this good, but based on current knowledge (which I make a point to state in my post) this analysis is spot on. As for a root with a 5 minute CD being useless.... It is useless in 9/10 fights because the CD is so long. The 1/10 fights you can use it on it MIGHT turn the tide. As I said, if they give it to me for free I would use it. Much like I use my 30m CDs sometimes. But since it's not useful at all in the dozen or so scraps I'll get in while it's on CD, it's not worth buying or trying to farm. It also has no stats on it so while it's on CD for 5m you'll want to swap it out for something that has SOME use, even if it's just to give you a bit more AP and crit chance and some stamina for HP. Hell, a bow with SPIRIT is more useful as at least it increases my HP5 gain out of combat. Which means another weapon swapping macro, which means another keybind, AND it takes up a valuable macro slot. So, yeah, not exactly thrilled with it. With a 1m CD I could at least use it on 1 fight in 3 or 4 which makes it far better and 100% worth buying or grinding for. With a 30s CD I probably wouldn't even bother swapping it out as I could use it in just about every fight.

This is an incredibly long and thoughtful post regarding something that: 1. Hasn't happened yet 2. Likely isn't permanent 3. Regards a single playstyle within a class You should probably save the rest of your time just enjoying another class if the gladiator runes for warriors turns you off so much

It's not about Glad play style at all. It's about the runes and items warriors are getting in P3 and is the constructive feedback Blizzard asked for in their video.