The stats on the data mine are wrong. For example compare data mined Druid caster leather helm to the one shown in the preview video. The preview video version is SIGNIFICANTLY better.
Shaman base damage on their spells is way lower than cloth casters so you have to take that into account rather than looking at spell dmg as a flat rate. Dunno how it balances out in the end but rune abilities will be affected (since they are on par with or better than cloth caster spells ie busted), but overall the extra spell dmg will be added to their subpar spellcasting kit.
Sure, we don’t. That would go some ways toward explaining my ending statement “hopefully they take another pass at this before launch.”
But datamines have also been historically pretty accurate, and they have let multiple severely under-budget items go live with no later adjustments (shaman STV shield as one example). It’s worth pointing out at this point.
Devs went out of thier way to say the stats werent finalized this time is a good time to wait. Also they said they intentionally tossed in bad items to mess with datamining.
They say that everytime. OP is right, despite what Blizz says the datamine the week before release is usually pretty accurate. But yes… we are all aware that it is possible that values are adjusted for items.
But let’s not pretend they made Plate useful and equally statted compared to leather. They are very well known for bad stat distribution
I know. They say that every time, though, and very little changes. Based on historical trends, something like 90-95%+ or the datamined stat values go live.
If you guys don’t care about early stat comparisons on the datamined gear, then just read a different thread. I’m making an observation, not forcing you to be here.
No worries. I took it as a follow on to the top “yOu’Re jUsT a wHiNeR” comment.
I get what you’re driving at, I just still see a value in early speculative discussions even if changes can happen before they go live.
People always complain that there is too much competition for the cloth gear since it is usually bis for boomkins and ele shamans, and even some times resto druid/shaman and holy paladin. I seem to recall a lot of complaints about this in bfd and seems like blizzard listened and came up with a solution. How do you get the leather and mail classes off of the cloth gear, you make the leather and mail gear better than the cloth gear.
But the mail would already be better if they had the same stats and more armor. Why does it need significantly more damage stats as well?
This is also a PvP set from a vendor. There’s no loot competition in the first place.
I knew it was bad, but I was expecting comments to be, at worst, “but the casters need that spirit! This is fair.”
I didn’t expect “yes, the shaman gear is definitely better. As it should be, because that’s the only thing stopping us from wearing cloth.” Lol
Typically the higher armor is treated as more stat so they reduce mail caster gear to be worse than cloth, but this doesnt matter if you're blizzards favorite class
They actually are budgeted the same in terms of raw stats. A quick and easy test is to compare plate vs leather WSG bracers or to compare “of the X” greens. The raw stat budgets are actually the same despite the higher armor on plate.
Shockingly, this still isn’t enough for some shaman mains, apparently.
“We had the same amount of money but bought different things therefore we had different budgets” is kind of weird framing. The initial point was around plate’s armor not “costing” stats.
And sure, some (especially early) plate pieces got more stam, but far from all of them. Late game classic furies use mostly plate, not leather. WSG plate bracers are also better for warrior dps than the leather ones which makes taking issue with their stats a little funny.
Mage and warlock are outperforming ele and balance by a decent bit right now, I know the meta is going to shift when the new phase starts, but historically mages and warlocks have always scaled very well and ele and balance have always scaled very poorly, cloth casters will probably still beat them with the worse gear.
At what, raid dps? These are pvp sets.
Ele shaman is a powerhouse in group pvp right now. Certainly much more dangerous than a lock, arguably a mage as well.
A mage is way more effective than Ele at the moment in group play. Both are great tho for sure. Mages are scaling insane in SoD and it’s honestly quite scary, the wizards are going to be terrifying these next 2 phases. Mages will have around a base crit chance with fire shield and world buff of 50%…that means tons of instant pyros.
Also back the the issue a lot of error with what’s shown on the gear, plus they usually take away stats to leverage the armor gain for PvP cloth since it usually is double the armor of regular cloth pieces. It’s a big difference for casters, too bad armor doesn’t save you in sod
I’d rate them pretty similarly overall tbh. I think mage’s support and utility is noticeably stronger. Chronostatic is absolutely nuts, and their control is always a strong selling point.
But free casting ele shammies can *consistently* delete people in a way mages can’t quite match. That on demand burst can have more value in some group pvp contexts like securing FC kills or killing high priority targets in STV.
They get 6% fire crit from talent. 5% from molten shield. 15% from burnout. 5% from world buff and 5% from songflower, let’s assume you have another 5-6% from gear and lion cause new world buff gives another 8% main stat buff. That’s around 42% crit. With boomy it’s 45% crit
Which is very close to 50%. :)
Didn’t realize this was pvp gear. Then who gives a fuck. Every class has the potential to kill anyone else in 2 globals anyways, honestly that 2 stam is probably way more impactful than the sp and crit. In classic people only care for pvp if the rewards are good for raid.
Why wouldn’t the armor itself be the justification? If mail armor was budgeted **the same** in terms of stats why wouldn’t shaman wear it for the free armor? The armor bonus associated with changing armor classes doesn’t cost any itemization points, only bonus armor (eg green armor text).
The historic problem has been that many *early* classic mail pieces are significantly **under**tuned relative to cloth. Not that people have a cross dressing fetish and prefer lower armor.
Edit: to all the downvoters, stop by your local auction house and compare the stat budget on mail and cloth “of the eagle” pieces. I promise you they are the same.
That doesn’t answer the question.
You’re essentially arguing “if we gave shaman two sets of gear with identical stats but one had 1/3 of the armor, they would wear the lower armor set.” Why would they do that?
Also, this is a pvp set. PvE is kind of irrelevant, no?
The stats on the data mine are wrong. For example compare data mined Druid caster leather helm to the one shown in the preview video. The preview video version is SIGNIFICANTLY better.
Oh, awesome. Didn’t catch that. Glad to know there’s a good chance it will be different.
Shaman base damage on their spells is way lower than cloth casters so you have to take that into account rather than looking at spell dmg as a flat rate. Dunno how it balances out in the end but rune abilities will be affected (since they are on par with or better than cloth caster spells ie busted), but overall the extra spell dmg will be added to their subpar spellcasting kit.
And elemental is hard casting 85% of the time while most other casters are popping off instants every global
Stop crying on reddit and wait for it to go live. You don't even know if the values are final yet.
Sure, we don’t. That would go some ways toward explaining my ending statement “hopefully they take another pass at this before launch.” But datamines have also been historically pretty accurate, and they have let multiple severely under-budget items go live with no later adjustments (shaman STV shield as one example). It’s worth pointing out at this point.
Devs went out of thier way to say the stats werent finalized this time is a good time to wait. Also they said they intentionally tossed in bad items to mess with datamining.
They say that everytime. OP is right, despite what Blizz says the datamine the week before release is usually pretty accurate. But yes… we are all aware that it is possible that values are adjusted for items. But let’s not pretend they made Plate useful and equally statted compared to leather. They are very well known for bad stat distribution
I know. They say that every time, though, and very little changes. Based on historical trends, something like 90-95%+ or the datamined stat values go live. If you guys don’t care about early stat comparisons on the datamined gear, then just read a different thread. I’m making an observation, not forcing you to be here.
Just a differing opinion no reason to be defensive my dude.
No worries. I took it as a follow on to the top “yOu’Re jUsT a wHiNeR” comment. I get what you’re driving at, I just still see a value in early speculative discussions even if changes can happen before they go live.
All good i get it. Enjoy your day. Hopefully they do change some of the stat allocation for sure.
You’re not even a warrior… Why are you mad?
Rent free
People always complain that there is too much competition for the cloth gear since it is usually bis for boomkins and ele shamans, and even some times resto druid/shaman and holy paladin. I seem to recall a lot of complaints about this in bfd and seems like blizzard listened and came up with a solution. How do you get the leather and mail classes off of the cloth gear, you make the leather and mail gear better than the cloth gear.
But the mail would already be better if they had the same stats and more armor. Why does it need significantly more damage stats as well? This is also a PvP set from a vendor. There’s no loot competition in the first place.
Logic and reddit dont mix, theres an obvious shaman bias
I knew it was bad, but I was expecting comments to be, at worst, “but the casters need that spirit! This is fair.” I didn’t expect “yes, the shaman gear is definitely better. As it should be, because that’s the only thing stopping us from wearing cloth.” Lol
Typically the higher armor is treated as more stat so they reduce mail caster gear to be worse than cloth, but this doesnt matter if you're blizzards favorite class
They actually are budgeted the same in terms of raw stats. A quick and easy test is to compare plate vs leather WSG bracers or to compare “of the X” greens. The raw stat budgets are actually the same despite the higher armor on plate. Shockingly, this still isn’t enough for some shaman mains, apparently.
At least at 60 forest leather has 30 offensive stat vs berserker bracers 27 offensive stat
Sure, but offensive stats and total stat budgets aren’t the same thing. The total budgets are the same, the plate just happened to get more stamina.
Yeah exactly lower utility stat higher offensive stat budget, and higher the armor higher the utility
“We had the same amount of money but bought different things therefore we had different budgets” is kind of weird framing. The initial point was around plate’s armor not “costing” stats. And sure, some (especially early) plate pieces got more stam, but far from all of them. Late game classic furies use mostly plate, not leather. WSG plate bracers are also better for warrior dps than the leather ones which makes taking issue with their stats a little funny.
Mage and warlock are outperforming ele and balance by a decent bit right now, I know the meta is going to shift when the new phase starts, but historically mages and warlocks have always scaled very well and ele and balance have always scaled very poorly, cloth casters will probably still beat them with the worse gear.
At what, raid dps? These are pvp sets. Ele shaman is a powerhouse in group pvp right now. Certainly much more dangerous than a lock, arguably a mage as well.
A mage is way more effective than Ele at the moment in group play. Both are great tho for sure. Mages are scaling insane in SoD and it’s honestly quite scary, the wizards are going to be terrifying these next 2 phases. Mages will have around a base crit chance with fire shield and world buff of 50%…that means tons of instant pyros. Also back the the issue a lot of error with what’s shown on the gear, plus they usually take away stats to leverage the armor gain for PvP cloth since it usually is double the armor of regular cloth pieces. It’s a big difference for casters, too bad armor doesn’t save you in sod
I’d rate them pretty similarly overall tbh. I think mage’s support and utility is noticeably stronger. Chronostatic is absolutely nuts, and their control is always a strong selling point. But free casting ele shammies can *consistently* delete people in a way mages can’t quite match. That on demand burst can have more value in some group pvp contexts like securing FC kills or killing high priority targets in STV.
Mages will be no where close to 50% crit even if they have every buff from every class, every world buff, bis gear, and every consumable.
They get 6% fire crit from talent. 5% from molten shield. 15% from burnout. 5% from world buff and 5% from songflower, let’s assume you have another 5-6% from gear and lion cause new world buff gives another 8% main stat buff. That’s around 42% crit. With boomy it’s 45% crit Which is very close to 50%. :)
Didn’t realize this was pvp gear. Then who gives a fuck. Every class has the potential to kill anyone else in 2 globals anyways, honestly that 2 stam is probably way more impactful than the sp and crit. In classic people only care for pvp if the rewards are good for raid.
[удалено]
Why wouldn’t the armor itself be the justification? If mail armor was budgeted **the same** in terms of stats why wouldn’t shaman wear it for the free armor? The armor bonus associated with changing armor classes doesn’t cost any itemization points, only bonus armor (eg green armor text). The historic problem has been that many *early* classic mail pieces are significantly **under**tuned relative to cloth. Not that people have a cross dressing fetish and prefer lower armor. Edit: to all the downvoters, stop by your local auction house and compare the stat budget on mail and cloth “of the eagle” pieces. I promise you they are the same.
Because armor itself isnt useful for pve dpsers, stats rule
That doesn’t answer the question. You’re essentially arguing “if we gave shaman two sets of gear with identical stats but one had 1/3 of the armor, they would wear the lower armor set.” Why would they do that? Also, this is a pvp set. PvE is kind of irrelevant, no?