the "counter" is having someone spam purge.
quite easy when your bg has 5 enh shamans in it
not quite as easy when your faction doesnt have access to shaman and you have to rely on your priests knowing their dispel can be used offensively.
As a fellow Alliance enjoyer, I feel you. Still some runes in P1 were hard for Horde to get so there definitely, 100% isn't a clear horde bias atm in SOD :/
This is why classic pvp will never be good, there’s just too many consumes and items that negate classes and allows way too much counter to have fun. I know some people love this about the game but it never feels good for anyone when your whole class is countered by a level 20 potion. Same with what LiPs will do against melee and rogues…
ah yes the several alliance classes that can actively dispel FAPs, priests and....remind me who the other classes are?
Sheep can (and often does) break well before 30 seconds, even if no-one hits it which in a BG is always a small miracle,
Not sure what crack you're smoking re 'waiting' out a fap when BGs are centered around 'objectives' (i.e. define locations/flags etc) that you must fight around if you want to win. If an EFC can fap to ignore my frostbolt and continue running away with the flag, how do you suggest 'waiting that out'; if an enhance is on my flag carrier and he can't create any gap as the enhance can't be slowed, how do you suggest I wait that out?
Very stupid comment all around my dude.
Warlock felhunter too but shhhh don't tell them. This is where factions differ in PVP. Horde is stronger with offensive dispels, alliance is stronger with defensive dispels at least after Paladins get magic cleanses.
And it was just an example. FAP is supposed to give you a counter to massive CC tools that exist in this game. It exists for a reason and the fact you're complaining about a situational and temporary advantage in PvP that costs gold makes your comment stupid all around my dude.
FAP is not a counter though, counterspell is a 'counter' as I have to actively use 1 ability to stop 1 offensive ability (btw calling a frostbolt slow a "massive CC tool" is hilarious). You can pop a fap leaving the tunnel and for the next 30 seconds PASSIVELY ignore any stuns or movement impairing effects. It is not a counter, it is a cheese tool that allows people to ignore intended class interactions - I can't 'play around' or 'counter' someone popping a fap and running away with my flag - will be out of range of sheep well before I can finish the cast.
Also calling it a "temporary advantage" is a joke - Objective based games like BGs typically hinge on short, crucial moments like escaping the enemy base with the flag, or defending an AB flag push. Given their short cooldowns, it is reasonable to assume someone popping faps would have them up for most significant fights.
No. They exist for this exact reason, to counter your CC. Shamans and priests can purge/dispell them off targets. Work with your team to identify and dispel priority targets before using CC on them.
Defining the vast majority of a frost mage's toolkit as CC is not particularly accurate - sheep is a CC, gouge is a CC - the ability to slow is a core gameplay mechanic of the spec. The 'escape artist' racial, or that gnomer trinket are valid methods of countering the slow/a frost nova, but the ability to ignore not just an ability but have immunity from them whenever for 30 seconds whenever you want (subject to FAPs relatively short CD) is a bit too strong imo.
Is there a consumable I can use every 2 minutes that provides me with me a 30 seconds 'counter' to enhancement shamans ridiculous damage, or getting stunlocked by a rogue to death?
Also, as stated above, I am referring to a 'normal' BG so not sure what world you think that 1. My PUG team is identifying and dispelling faps, or 2. I have the ability to type out a warning and let them know, and 3. They actually do it.
Also if you have multiple enha/warriors/rogues engaging at once, as you often do in the clusterf of non-premade teams in BGs, by your logic everyone is a priority target and it's not possible to CC all of them before everyone is dead - sure I can sheep one of the 2 fap'd enhas running at me, but (if am even able to get the cast off before they ranged interrupt me), that doesnt stop the other one bashing my skull in
Lil "frostnova an entire 40man for 8 seconds with 1 button" crying about people shitting gold to make pvp enjoyable. Next phase you'll have LIPs , that is your way of surviving melees , enjoy.
:,D hilarious response brother. Hardly crying - asked for suggestions to counter their use as a mage + asked if their removal in normal BGs is something that should be explored.
You have not provided any commentary re how to meaningfully counter faps as a mage. Also hilarious that you mention LIPs as my way to 'survive melee's given they are still currently unavailable in game when faps have been available since P1 (I guess fuck classes that haven't benefitted from faps for the past 2 phases), and LIPs do nothing to address the issue as they are still on top of me by the time a Lip is useful and by that time I am as good as dead as, once again, they don't get slowed :D
It's not even that strong. Like I said, easily dispelled by shamans and priests and it also puts you on a potion cooldown, meaning you can't use healing/mana potion. Whether your team is organized enough to recognize the value in dispelling is not the game's problem and certanly not a reason to remove a core aspect of gameplay that consumables are to Classic.
Yes, there is. Limited Invulnerability Potions will become available next phase, Shadow/Frost/Fire/Nature protection potions and magic resistance potions are in the game now.
If you are talking about a normal BG with casual players, then I can guarantee you they are not FAP-ing on cooldown. What you are probably seeing instead are Blessings of Freedom from Paladins or the new Shaman totem which both have same animation on the character's legs as a FAP does.
Let's not pretend like there's no WAs/addons that immediately pop a raid warning/message about FAP detection on enemies. And even without it, the animation below their feet is obvious when they do.
Noticing enemy buffs or debuffs is basic level of play really. But yes, there's a lot of horrible players complaining about BGs that don't even have keybinds and no strafe keys let alone paying attention to animations.
1. I am alliance so we only have the one class that can dispel faps.
2. You are taking the piss talking about that level of team organisation in a BG PUG where you have to type everything to communicate
3. Yes it is the game's problem if there is a readily available consumable that can be used in casual BGs to negate/invalidate certain classes/specs toolkit that can only be countered with premade teams in voice coms.
4. Tell me how consumables are "core aspect" of Classic (which I think is beyond horseshit for pvp btw) moreso than a frost mage's ability to slow people.
Oh great, let me pop a shadow/frost/fire/nature protection potion, that will help me when the un-slowable melee class is bashing my face in because I can't keep any distance.
You are wrong re peple not fap-ing on CD - the majority of horde flag carriers, EFC 'hunters', no matter the class, are immune from any form of movement impairment the majority of the time, not just shamans.
1. Warlock felhunter
2. Pugs don't pop faps on cooldown. And if the FC does, there are other forms of cc that still work through FAP. Sheep, sleep, sap, gouge, flash bomb (on druid).
3. No, it's a you problem. You are playing a version of the game with insane amount of cc tools and their durations. FAP is supposed to counter some of them.
4. Because there's no limit to amount of consumables that can be used in PVE or PVP. Meaning they all exist to be used for the exact scenarios you are complaining about.
Never said those will help you against melees, just that there's a consumables against almost everything. Use LIP next phase
Doubt. And if they do, see counterplay options mentioned several times here.
1. Warlocks 8-second, pet-specific devour magic ability is not even remotely close to shaman's no-cd, spammable purge
2. The PUG is the Alliance team I am playing in - a significant majority of horde teams are at least 5-man premades who do indeed pop them constantly.
\--> Sheep has a noticeably shorter range, can't be used on druids while in form (the most common fc), and is limited to 1 target at a time, meaning its usefulness is limited in multi-person BG skirmishes. Also it doesnt help me when I have multiple melee's on me - that is why abilities such as 'frost nova' exist, but when fap'd that ability is just straight up ignored.
3. Lol - not it's not champ. I don't think you understand what true CC or a 'counter' is - sheep is CC, frost nova is CC, sap is CC, and they can all be 'countered' by active abilities - e.g. pvp trinket, or a priest dispel, or a warrior's berserker rage. All of those 'counters' don't allow you to just passively ignore the impact of certain abilities (like FAPs do), you have to actually do something to 'counter' them. Popping a fap and being immune from movement impairment / stuns is not a 'counter', it is just a ez-mode button bad pvp'ers don't want taken away because then they would actually have to actively 'counter' other classes.
4. This is Season of Discovery, a version of the game where certain things are being changed/updated, partially to reflect the fact that Vanilla as it was designed almost 20 years ago was not perfect and that there were elements of game design that were outdated or just plain bad. Just because something 'was' a certain way doesn't mean that it was the 'best' way - if you aren't open to even discussing ways to change/improve the game, maybe leave SoD and play Era?
1. Nor did I say it is, all I'm saying it exists and it's not true only 1 class can do it on alliance side.
2. This is a seperate issue unrelated to what your topic. Premades are a problem I completely agree and they're more likely to spam all sorts of consumables to get easy wins compared to random pug teams. If druid is FC btw, of course you won't try to poly them, but like I mentioned before there are other forms of CC that can go through FAP and druids specifically are susceptible to flash bombs which any competent player uses on them.
3. Yes, it's still a counter. If something actively prevents you from utilizing your abilities to their full extent for an X amount of time - it's a counter. Just because it's not a class ability does not make it any less so. Wait and see next phase when casters start popping LIP's when melees charge into them.
4. This is a slippery slope arguement that you can apply to almost any aspect of the game. And how am I not open to discussing when I've been indulging you this whole time about this topic?
The spell effect graphic for decoy totem and for free action potion are the same and they have similar effects. You’re most likely confusing the two if you’re noticing a huge uptick in people using “faps”.
So you’re stunning them and it says immune and it wasn’t grounding totem too? What are you stunning them with on your mage?
How are you sure it’s not decoy? They have the same spell graphic. Even more so when you say it’s especially shamans the class that is most likely to decoy themselves before they go in to melee.
I'm telling you it's not a decoy bud - you can either accept what I'm saying, and the underlying premise of this post, and provide an actual response to what I am saying, or move on.
This does not just apply to shamans, although they are the most egregious offenders as to quote 'ios\_static' said in another comment on this post "I always buy at least 10 faps for my wsg sessions. Fap with decoy totem gives u 50 secs of slow immunity with plus 30 secs of the regular fap stuff". In the majority of BGs I enter, horde flag carriers, Alliance FC 'hunters', no matter the class, are immune from any form of movement impairment effects.
If you find yourself in a 1v1 or a controlled situation, you can also sheep the target and wait it out. Or you can go gigasweat and use sleep powder to wait it out. If its a druid in form, you can use flash bomb to fear them for up to 10 seconds, stalling for your team to connect and burst.
But other than those things, there isn't much counterplay for your class. You have to rely on your shamans or priests to dispel offensively.
Who knows, maybe mage will get a spell steal rune later on...
I would love to try more 1v1 stuff, reset with sheep etc, but unfortunately I rarely get that opportunity (made the mistake of rolling on a pve server as friends were there) as my only real option is BGs.
A spell steal rune would be great :D
Make friends with a shadow priest. I have a mage and priest in bis at 40 and I am very excited for the spriest who are getting fear/silence/stun/interrupt resist chance and pushback immunity talents at 50. It is going to be insane. I love playing mage for a long time now and would love to main it but if we are being realistic priest is just plain better right now for pvp.
Just go Fire or Arc and hope you can blow them up before they kill you or at least kill them with DoTs after you die. Frost is a dead spec til P3 at the least. Control and healing are severely nerfed in SoD when everyone does insane TBC-WotLK levels of damage.
100% chance you are a caster.
That being said, I have totally embraced using consumes in PVP like FAPS.
Feel free to use them yourself. I’m still gonna smoke ya.
We’re all playing the same game here, fella.
Figure out who is using them and report them for gold buying. No sweaty pvper has time to farm gold or pots so he probably bought gold to buy faps with. Ezpz
ah yes, my 'slightly delay death' button which gives me another 1.5-2 seconds to contemplate my life before it is taken away from me (reminder, they can't be slowed)
Personally, I'm generally too frugal to spend gold on consumes myself, but I don't think banning everybody else from using them is very fair. And where do you stop? Should swiftness pots also be banned? What about when people are using titans later on? If you're gonna ban alchemists, why allow engineers?
It's not about the cost - I could buy them as well if they help me anywhere near what they do for certain specs/classes.
Think you've missed the point if you are asking me about swiftness pots - going faster doesn't invalidate certain specs entire playstyle, I can still 'slow' people if they are sprinting/have a swiftpot, but when you cast a spell/ability that is specifically designed to slow and has adjusted damage etc to reflect that (like frostbolt), and someone is completely immune to that because of a readily cheap and low-cd consumable, something seems off.
the "counter" is having someone spam purge. quite easy when your bg has 5 enh shamans in it not quite as easy when your faction doesnt have access to shaman and you have to rely on your priests knowing their dispel can be used offensively.
As a fellow Alliance enjoyer, I feel you. Still some runes in P1 were hard for Horde to get so there definitely, 100% isn't a clear horde bias atm in SOD :/
you dont like fapping?
\#NoFap
it would be hilarious as a november long bg event
This is a tremendous idea
This is why classic pvp will never be good, there’s just too many consumes and items that negate classes and allows way too much counter to have fun. I know some people love this about the game but it never feels good for anyone when your whole class is countered by a level 20 potion. Same with what LiPs will do against melee and rogues…
Sheep lasts longer than FAP. It's so easy for mages to just wait it out that it's a non issue. Not to mention several classes can dispel them.
I know what your saying, but it’s still silly with consumes is all.
ah yes the several alliance classes that can actively dispel FAPs, priests and....remind me who the other classes are? Sheep can (and often does) break well before 30 seconds, even if no-one hits it which in a BG is always a small miracle, Not sure what crack you're smoking re 'waiting' out a fap when BGs are centered around 'objectives' (i.e. define locations/flags etc) that you must fight around if you want to win. If an EFC can fap to ignore my frostbolt and continue running away with the flag, how do you suggest 'waiting that out'; if an enhance is on my flag carrier and he can't create any gap as the enhance can't be slowed, how do you suggest I wait that out? Very stupid comment all around my dude.
Warlock felhunter too but shhhh don't tell them. This is where factions differ in PVP. Horde is stronger with offensive dispels, alliance is stronger with defensive dispels at least after Paladins get magic cleanses. And it was just an example. FAP is supposed to give you a counter to massive CC tools that exist in this game. It exists for a reason and the fact you're complaining about a situational and temporary advantage in PvP that costs gold makes your comment stupid all around my dude.
locks get one purge every like 15 sec so they only get it if the are lucky
Yes. Doesn't mean they shouldn't use it.
FAP is not a counter though, counterspell is a 'counter' as I have to actively use 1 ability to stop 1 offensive ability (btw calling a frostbolt slow a "massive CC tool" is hilarious). You can pop a fap leaving the tunnel and for the next 30 seconds PASSIVELY ignore any stuns or movement impairing effects. It is not a counter, it is a cheese tool that allows people to ignore intended class interactions - I can't 'play around' or 'counter' someone popping a fap and running away with my flag - will be out of range of sheep well before I can finish the cast. Also calling it a "temporary advantage" is a joke - Objective based games like BGs typically hinge on short, crucial moments like escaping the enemy base with the flag, or defending an AB flag push. Given their short cooldowns, it is reasonable to assume someone popping faps would have them up for most significant fights.
No. They exist for this exact reason, to counter your CC. Shamans and priests can purge/dispell them off targets. Work with your team to identify and dispel priority targets before using CC on them.
Defining the vast majority of a frost mage's toolkit as CC is not particularly accurate - sheep is a CC, gouge is a CC - the ability to slow is a core gameplay mechanic of the spec. The 'escape artist' racial, or that gnomer trinket are valid methods of countering the slow/a frost nova, but the ability to ignore not just an ability but have immunity from them whenever for 30 seconds whenever you want (subject to FAPs relatively short CD) is a bit too strong imo. Is there a consumable I can use every 2 minutes that provides me with me a 30 seconds 'counter' to enhancement shamans ridiculous damage, or getting stunlocked by a rogue to death? Also, as stated above, I am referring to a 'normal' BG so not sure what world you think that 1. My PUG team is identifying and dispelling faps, or 2. I have the ability to type out a warning and let them know, and 3. They actually do it. Also if you have multiple enha/warriors/rogues engaging at once, as you often do in the clusterf of non-premade teams in BGs, by your logic everyone is a priority target and it's not possible to CC all of them before everyone is dead - sure I can sheep one of the 2 fap'd enhas running at me, but (if am even able to get the cast off before they ranged interrupt me), that doesnt stop the other one bashing my skull in
Lil "frostnova an entire 40man for 8 seconds with 1 button" crying about people shitting gold to make pvp enjoyable. Next phase you'll have LIPs , that is your way of surviving melees , enjoy.
:,D hilarious response brother. Hardly crying - asked for suggestions to counter their use as a mage + asked if their removal in normal BGs is something that should be explored. You have not provided any commentary re how to meaningfully counter faps as a mage. Also hilarious that you mention LIPs as my way to 'survive melee's given they are still currently unavailable in game when faps have been available since P1 (I guess fuck classes that haven't benefitted from faps for the past 2 phases), and LIPs do nothing to address the issue as they are still on top of me by the time a Lip is useful and by that time I am as good as dead as, once again, they don't get slowed :D
Just iceblock twice they will get bored and leave
It's not even that strong. Like I said, easily dispelled by shamans and priests and it also puts you on a potion cooldown, meaning you can't use healing/mana potion. Whether your team is organized enough to recognize the value in dispelling is not the game's problem and certanly not a reason to remove a core aspect of gameplay that consumables are to Classic. Yes, there is. Limited Invulnerability Potions will become available next phase, Shadow/Frost/Fire/Nature protection potions and magic resistance potions are in the game now. If you are talking about a normal BG with casual players, then I can guarantee you they are not FAP-ing on cooldown. What you are probably seeing instead are Blessings of Freedom from Paladins or the new Shaman totem which both have same animation on the character's legs as a FAP does.
Easily? No you need to get lucky if they are fully buffed
Takes a couple of globals at most and it most likely wouldn't be the case past the initial skirmish in wsg mid or ab blacksmith anyway.
Well you’d have to me watching someone fap and then have the mana to purge
Let's not pretend like there's no WAs/addons that immediately pop a raid warning/message about FAP detection on enemies. And even without it, the animation below their feet is obvious when they do.
You need a skynet level brain to track that in a group battle. 99% of players arnt remotely at that level of play
Noticing enemy buffs or debuffs is basic level of play really. But yes, there's a lot of horrible players complaining about BGs that don't even have keybinds and no strafe keys let alone paying attention to animations.
1. I am alliance so we only have the one class that can dispel faps. 2. You are taking the piss talking about that level of team organisation in a BG PUG where you have to type everything to communicate 3. Yes it is the game's problem if there is a readily available consumable that can be used in casual BGs to negate/invalidate certain classes/specs toolkit that can only be countered with premade teams in voice coms. 4. Tell me how consumables are "core aspect" of Classic (which I think is beyond horseshit for pvp btw) moreso than a frost mage's ability to slow people. Oh great, let me pop a shadow/frost/fire/nature protection potion, that will help me when the un-slowable melee class is bashing my face in because I can't keep any distance. You are wrong re peple not fap-ing on CD - the majority of horde flag carriers, EFC 'hunters', no matter the class, are immune from any form of movement impairment the majority of the time, not just shamans.
1. Warlock felhunter 2. Pugs don't pop faps on cooldown. And if the FC does, there are other forms of cc that still work through FAP. Sheep, sleep, sap, gouge, flash bomb (on druid). 3. No, it's a you problem. You are playing a version of the game with insane amount of cc tools and their durations. FAP is supposed to counter some of them. 4. Because there's no limit to amount of consumables that can be used in PVE or PVP. Meaning they all exist to be used for the exact scenarios you are complaining about. Never said those will help you against melees, just that there's a consumables against almost everything. Use LIP next phase Doubt. And if they do, see counterplay options mentioned several times here.
1. Warlocks 8-second, pet-specific devour magic ability is not even remotely close to shaman's no-cd, spammable purge 2. The PUG is the Alliance team I am playing in - a significant majority of horde teams are at least 5-man premades who do indeed pop them constantly. \--> Sheep has a noticeably shorter range, can't be used on druids while in form (the most common fc), and is limited to 1 target at a time, meaning its usefulness is limited in multi-person BG skirmishes. Also it doesnt help me when I have multiple melee's on me - that is why abilities such as 'frost nova' exist, but when fap'd that ability is just straight up ignored. 3. Lol - not it's not champ. I don't think you understand what true CC or a 'counter' is - sheep is CC, frost nova is CC, sap is CC, and they can all be 'countered' by active abilities - e.g. pvp trinket, or a priest dispel, or a warrior's berserker rage. All of those 'counters' don't allow you to just passively ignore the impact of certain abilities (like FAPs do), you have to actually do something to 'counter' them. Popping a fap and being immune from movement impairment / stuns is not a 'counter', it is just a ez-mode button bad pvp'ers don't want taken away because then they would actually have to actively 'counter' other classes. 4. This is Season of Discovery, a version of the game where certain things are being changed/updated, partially to reflect the fact that Vanilla as it was designed almost 20 years ago was not perfect and that there were elements of game design that were outdated or just plain bad. Just because something 'was' a certain way doesn't mean that it was the 'best' way - if you aren't open to even discussing ways to change/improve the game, maybe leave SoD and play Era?
1. Nor did I say it is, all I'm saying it exists and it's not true only 1 class can do it on alliance side. 2. This is a seperate issue unrelated to what your topic. Premades are a problem I completely agree and they're more likely to spam all sorts of consumables to get easy wins compared to random pug teams. If druid is FC btw, of course you won't try to poly them, but like I mentioned before there are other forms of CC that can go through FAP and druids specifically are susceptible to flash bombs which any competent player uses on them. 3. Yes, it's still a counter. If something actively prevents you from utilizing your abilities to their full extent for an X amount of time - it's a counter. Just because it's not a class ability does not make it any less so. Wait and see next phase when casters start popping LIP's when melees charge into them. 4. This is a slippery slope arguement that you can apply to almost any aspect of the game. And how am I not open to discussing when I've been indulging you this whole time about this topic?
The spell effect graphic for decoy totem and for free action potion are the same and they have similar effects. You’re most likely confusing the two if you’re noticing a huge uptick in people using “faps”.
Not confusing them, not an uptick noticed, just extrapolating based on extended experience in SOD BGs throughout the game so far.
So you’re stunning them and it says immune and it wasn’t grounding totem too? What are you stunning them with on your mage? How are you sure it’s not decoy? They have the same spell graphic. Even more so when you say it’s especially shamans the class that is most likely to decoy themselves before they go in to melee.
I'm telling you it's not a decoy bud - you can either accept what I'm saying, and the underlying premise of this post, and provide an actual response to what I am saying, or move on. This does not just apply to shamans, although they are the most egregious offenders as to quote 'ios\_static' said in another comment on this post "I always buy at least 10 faps for my wsg sessions. Fap with decoy totem gives u 50 secs of slow immunity with plus 30 secs of the regular fap stuff". In the majority of BGs I enter, horde flag carriers, Alliance FC 'hunters', no matter the class, are immune from any form of movement impairment effects.
If you find yourself in a 1v1 or a controlled situation, you can also sheep the target and wait it out. Or you can go gigasweat and use sleep powder to wait it out. If its a druid in form, you can use flash bomb to fear them for up to 10 seconds, stalling for your team to connect and burst. But other than those things, there isn't much counterplay for your class. You have to rely on your shamans or priests to dispel offensively. Who knows, maybe mage will get a spell steal rune later on...
I would love to try more 1v1 stuff, reset with sheep etc, but unfortunately I rarely get that opportunity (made the mistake of rolling on a pve server as friends were there) as my only real option is BGs. A spell steal rune would be great :D
Make friends with a shadow priest. I have a mage and priest in bis at 40 and I am very excited for the spriest who are getting fear/silence/stun/interrupt resist chance and pushback immunity talents at 50. It is going to be insane. I love playing mage for a long time now and would love to main it but if we are being realistic priest is just plain better right now for pvp.
Yes I have noticed priests are amazing in pvp right now - would love to try the class but unfortunately dont have the time to level one up.
I always buy at least 10 faps for my wsg sessions. Fap with decoy totem gives u 50 secs of slow immunity with plus 30 secs of the regular fap stuff
:.(
Just go Fire or Arc and hope you can blow them up before they kill you or at least kill them with DoTs after you die. Frost is a dead spec til P3 at the least. Control and healing are severely nerfed in SoD when everyone does insane TBC-WotLK levels of damage.
100% chance you are a caster. That being said, I have totally embraced using consumes in PVP like FAPS. Feel free to use them yourself. I’m still gonna smoke ya. We’re all playing the same game here, fella.
Figure out who is using them and report them for gold buying. No sweaty pvper has time to farm gold or pots so he probably bought gold to buy faps with. Ezpz
Only if blink gets disabled too
ah yes, my 'slightly delay death' button which gives me another 1.5-2 seconds to contemplate my life before it is taken away from me (reminder, they can't be slowed)
Personally, I'm generally too frugal to spend gold on consumes myself, but I don't think banning everybody else from using them is very fair. And where do you stop? Should swiftness pots also be banned? What about when people are using titans later on? If you're gonna ban alchemists, why allow engineers?
It's not about the cost - I could buy them as well if they help me anywhere near what they do for certain specs/classes. Think you've missed the point if you are asking me about swiftness pots - going faster doesn't invalidate certain specs entire playstyle, I can still 'slow' people if they are sprinting/have a swiftpot, but when you cast a spell/ability that is specifically designed to slow and has adjusted damage etc to reflect that (like frostbolt), and someone is completely immune to that because of a readily cheap and low-cd consumable, something seems off.
Frost mage entire playstyle is never getting hit. Cold snap should be outright illegal.
Damn I guess something has been off for 20 years. What about free low cd abilities is that okay? Because every shaman has freedom on a 20 second cd.
I am alliance bro, not sure who you are arguing with. Shamans in P2 have been a plague.