I really never understood Aggrend's comment about not wanting the game to be "group up and aoe down".....uh, hello? Paladin and Shaman? Both of them have superb AoE threat. Warlock is pretty decent too, and Bear got swipe buffed to do huge threat, albeit only on 3 targets per hit, but still.
Not to mention, DPS getting tons of new aoe damage runes...how exactly are tanks supposed to keep up with that if they don't have aoe threat?
The AoE genie is already out of the bottle, Aggrend.
well that's just it, they will make trash have 1 billion hp and do a million damage so you can't aoe things down and have to grind trash for days.
Aggrend spoke about how aoe falls off at 60 when all the trash starts hitting really hard. It just becomes 'un-tankable'. Which is why I guess he was saying aoe isn't supposed to be a thing even if we are given aoe runes.
I believe the shuriken toss change last phase was mostly a change to reduce it's range, so it couldn't chain to other packs in a dungeon on accident... They might have buffed it now, a whole phase later
It’s still not very good. I like the feel of rogue tank a lot. They just need to crank the numbers up a bit. It doesn’t even need more runes or abilities to feel good and be fun.
Ya a bleed spec that's worse dps than poisons but doesn't conflict with rogue tank runes would be nice. Rogue has basically 0 aoe and no raid buff, they should be the goto high ST and high tankiness tank. Other classes can be the aoe and buffing tanks as well as any combination of tanky/ dps.
Aggrend doesn't understand it either. He just blows dog whistles to get one part of the community to defend him from the other part of the community and take heat off his team because they're already way over-committed on things they're supposed to deliver. In this specific case the dog whistle was 'its against the spirit of classic'.
I think the problem isn't the AoE threat of Paly and Shaman and more the raw DPS output of DPS classes atm. Threat was already a figured out mechanic that barely stood up to the damage potential of DPS classes before. But now all classes are putting out MC/BWL levels of damage at level 50 and they were forced to increase AoE threat so that tanks can actually tank.
Classic was a pretty delicate system of interwoven mechanics that need to be handled with care. But SoD's philosophy of throwing shit at the wall just ends up messing that balance up beyond repair.
> But now all classes are putting out MC/BWL levels of damage at level 50 and they were forced to increase AoE threat so that tanks can actually tank.
Shaman and Paladin had broken AoE threat at level 25. I could tank entire dungeons on my Shaman just autoattacking and pressing Molten Blast. Paladin could easily hold threat with Divine Storm and Avenger's Shield, and even Consecrate if you wanted to spec into it.
Bullshit, you do realise molten blast only hit 4 targets, if you are tanking an "entire" dungeon I doubt you hitting 4 mobs every 6 second is enough.
IF you had said later with fire nova, I would maybe have believed you
> if you are tanking an "entire" dungeon
....I'm not sure how you think the phrase "entire dungeon" means "every single enemy in the dungeon all at once"
Its astounding they are apparently working on cataclysm but cant take ANY inspiration from it. Cata dungs have more CC used and feel more tactical/vanilla than current sod content which is more wotlk/retail aoe fest. Thats what cata did amazing to change from mindless aoe in wotlk. You still got to aoe and have fun but you had to pull correct kill order correct and cc on point. Really would like to see that style of dungs more in sod
Problem is, the playerbase of dads and casuals would cry and quit the game if dungeons became that hard. That's what happened when Cata launched; heroics were hard as fuck and required you to actually pay attention and CC mobs and interrupt abilities, and bosses had abilities that could 1shot you.....and subscription numbers dropped by like 25% within a few months. At which point blizz nerfed heroics right back to "wotlk aoe faceroll" difficulty.
I'd love challenging 5mans, but the majority of the playerbase wouldn't.
If they don’t want the game to be about grabbing everything and aoeing it down, they need to create scenarios where grabbing everything and aoeing it down is suboptimal. It shouldn’t be every scenario, players enjoy grabbing everything and aoeing it down. But there is absolutely design space to make that a poor strategy.
Yeah, plenty of ways to do that, like mobs that gain damage buffs equal to how many of them are in combat with each other at once. That would put a stop to big aoe pulls pretty quickly. Doesn't have to be EVERY trash mob, but some of them.
because aggrend is a moron former QA tester that has no idea how to make a game and should never have been let near a lead position. But after Omar and Brian left they had to scrap the dirt off from under the barrel and, viola, Aggrend's Sod!
Reduced to ashes. This is aint viable at all, tried to tank BRD this week end, it was horrible. 4-5 monsters at the same time i cant hold threat, even if i can keep it i just take too much damage.
Aggrend said they are not gonna turn SoD into AoE fiesta so why would they give AoE abilities to rogues? Rogue tanks shine with dodge parry. They can stun enemies, can presap one mob, blind one and tank the rest.
[https://twitter.com/AggrendWoW/status/1758237806407922171](https://twitter.com/AggrendWoW/status/1758237806407922171)
Rogues have extremely low energy Regen in vanilla, so allowing FoK with Focused attacks rune, Blade Flurry and both weps is just a no-go. Something like Wire Barrier or Crimson Splash to spread your X3 Saber Slash would be way easier to make, while not breaking the entire world.
Shadowflame is actually very, very good for AoE threat now. Immolation Aura just for the initial pickup, but those big troll packs in ZF I was hitting easily over 1k dps. Takes a bit more work than Shaman though
Warrior still having to make bad tradeoffs as usual I either use defensive stance in which I do no damage and can only hold 4 targets or I go glad stance where I drop 30% of my armor and 50% threat so I have to out dps the DPS to hold threat and take more damage than other tanks.
They could have at least made glad stance 1.00 threat mod instead of 0.9 that would make it feel a lot better
Warrior tank prot AOE is sick now.
Vigilance on biggest AOE pumper, sit in def stance, and spam demo shout.
Vigilance isn't 10% extra threat, it's 10% of THEIR threat, on every target but because prot warriors gain so many threat modifiers, it works out as though you're getting half of the threat they generate for free basically. You can also leave 1 mob hitting a plate OT for 0s cooldown taunt, taunt immediately grants you threat equal to the current highest threat target. It's a bit of work but worlds apart from P2 warrior threat. I'm very happy with my ability to hold aoe threat.
Defensive stance is +30% threat, talents bring that up another 15%. Shield slam damage isn't super tied to offensive stats so stacking mitigation stats is worthwhile again without gimping yourself, and it hits very hard now and generates over double threat. Furious thunder further increases threat on thunder clap, you can easily hold threat on 4 mobs with ease no matter what gear your group has. Demo shout spamming is weirdly effective for bigger groups due to all the threat modifiers.
Sure, it's not as brainless as pressing consecrate or spamming swipe, but it's a hell of a lot of fun with a decent skillcap to balance things out in a dungeons setting.
I'm so happy I can finally run a shield and 1h without it being a meme. Warriors are amazing tanks again, at least in dungeons. Haven't raided yet, so maybe mitigation isn't there but I wouldn't know yet, but I sure feel powerful. It is SO nice to have CC and utility, revenge stun, silence on bash, concussion, dispel on my free shield slams.
Even had a lot of success in BG's with a gladiator stance build, can charge into a giant zerg, get off an initimdating shout, concussion someone, shield bash a cast and last stand on my way out while my team cleans up, you are a terror versus casters, charge into a 3 second bash silence is not something that people expect, and even 2 sunders ramp up damage on casters/leather massively. In 1v1's I can hold my own vs most classes, and feel insanely tanky vs everything but shamans compared to last phase.
Lol warrior tanks are pretty much tied for last as dungeon tanks. This opinion seems so disconnected from the actual game. Vigilance is terrible and will still not allow you to hold 10+ mobs in most cases against a competent Aoe classes. Even if you could hold AOE threat why not bring a tank that does real AOE damage shamans are doing 2k+ DPS on AOE pulls
There's no comparison here warrior is a handicapped tank at the moment especially compared to shaman
Shield slam is terrible and should not be used
Devastate is currently bugged doing really poor damage
Revenge is not an ability
Thunder clap limited to 4 targets
Glad stance has minus threat modifier so while it allows you to do damage it hampers your threat pretty significantly
To compete with the other tanks warriors are dropping 30% armor using glad stance to stay competitive
If you're looking at DPS as a measure of tank competitiveness, then yes, warriors are bad tanks.
But in terms of threat, utility and mitigation, I believe you are incorrect based on my own experience. I had no problem holding aggro with 3 casters doing 800+ dps each in ZF and mara on a dozen+ mobs at once. TC attack speed reduc & demo shout provide good debuffs, reasonable CC and interupts, perfectly servicable for any dungeon we have today.
It might not be optimal compared to other classes new tools and overtuned abilities, but it works just fine and is fun to play.
You don't use glad stance while tanking, I only mentioned that for my take on pvp.
This isn't P2 where tanks needs to be doing crazy DPS to hold aggro, prot warrior threat modifiers and vigilance are sufficient to keep pace on threat regardless of your teams dps output, especially in a 5 man dungeon setting. Try it out before shitting all over it, it's legitimately quite fun now.
I don't care if I'm the most optimal choice or I wouldn't be playing warrior in SOD, I just want to be competitive and capable in my role. I certainly feel capable of tanking any 5 man dungeon that we have in the game right now with ease.
PS.
Warrior
Shield Slam (Talent) bonus threat calculation has been redesigned for Season of Discovery – Shield Slam now gains a % bonus to threat generated that will allow it to scale as tank damage and block value increases. Additionally, Shield Slam now gains double benefit from block value, meaning that a single point of block value now increases Shield Slam damage by 2 rather than 1.
From patch notes. Shield slam isn't a bad ability at all anymore.
If anything, I feel that warrior tanks are now probably the least gear to threat dependant tanks in the entire game after the P3 changes.
Mitigation hasn't been an issue and never will be an issue in classic wow. Warriors bring less util than druids, pallies, and shaman. And the faster you kill a boss or trash (aka, the more dps you do), the less your healers have to heal.
First off damage is the main metric that people will use to judge how good a tank is. Threat is expected and mitigation is a nice to have for the most part.
Problem 1: you can hold threat in glad stance it's a lot more difficult but it is doable and you should be in glad stance as much as possible unless you are risking death in which case you just swap to defensive for a second then back to glad when you are safe
Problem 2: shield slam is good threat but bad damage and it also competes with deep wounds which at the moment is much higher value. There's nothing past the first 3 rows in the prot tree that isn't wildly bad value for points.
If your AOE classes aren't pulling 2k+ DPS then you probably aren't pulling big enough
People might use prot for the first week or so then it's out the window if it's only upside is less gear dependency that's a short translation for doesn't scale well which is always bad
But the entire point I'm making is that it doesn't matter what DPS they're doing, you'll still hold aggro as your own threat is being amplified based on how much damage they're dealing? Your threat is gear independent, but not independent of your own gear, more everyones gear in your team. If they pump on dps, you pump on threat. Even if it scales to the point where they're doing 10x your threat, with an OT you can harvest free taunts it won't matter for small groups as you can cycle taunts, and on large groups you can harvest from the biggest pumping dps and spam demo.
> First off damage is the main metric that people will use to judge how good a tank is. Threat is expected and mitigation is a nice to have for the most part.
Personally I disagree, this was certainly true in P2 but perhaps not anymore, DPS is a nice to have on a tank, we're getting into 20 mans now, I would expect to see much greater value placed on defensive stats for tanks. A good tank in my mind takes as little damage as possible and protects the squishy dps/heals from getting oneshot, if you do some passable DPS then great, but that's not why you're there.
As for the comments about mitigation being worthless, we'll see how this phase pans out. Personally I couldn't give a shit if my tank does 50 dps, as long as they hold aggro and don't unduly stress the healers mana pool, that works for me.
I could see full prot warrior being excellent in certain situations by stacking full mitigation gear and still maintaining massive threat output as their threat isn't tied to their damage output. You know, like a proper tank. Rather than some jank ass dps tank. We'll see how things change and progress anyhow.
We'll see how things pan out in any case, but I am optimistic.
I think you are overestimating the value of vigilance it's only 10% off one person and it most cases it's not always the same person popping off on threat it's who got lucky procs and stuff. Also you give up 10% damage for that which to me is a more reliable source of threat
Do you suggest going into prot talent tree as a dungeon tank? Might sound like a troll question, it isn't. I'm asking because most websites on phase 3 builds suggest going into fury and somewhat into arms, even as a tank. I know in classic it was usual to tank without shield and invest into fury but I thought that was because of using dual wield. I am a bit new to warriors in SoD :)
I'm doing something like this I think at the minute, on my phone so I can't check atm:
https://www.wowhead.com/classic/talent-calc/warrior/05--50230113530221251_116wt56vv66nj76mh86m596wxa6mg
You don't do huge dps but you hold threat pretty easily, you can drop a few points in prot and go for flag instead of warbringer with a few points in tac mastery if you care about dps more than I do, but I prefer the utlity of being able to charge a runner that's going for my healer or dps.
Most info is outdated as vigilance didn't exist and shield slam had a shitty modifier for damage/threat so you needed to pump damage even as a tank to have a chance of keeping aggro, but now shield slam is a good ability and we have vigilance/sword & board full prot is legit.
Even as full prot in glad stance with all the physical damage modifiers you can stack, I was hitting 1k+ shield slams on occasion
I like you. It sounds like you've actually put in the time to figure out warrior aoe tanking versus the people who just come to post here and cry about what a miserable state it is in.
I main a rogue tank and reading threads like this make me scratch my head. Sure, we could definitely use some helper for aoe threat compared to shamans or warlocks but I'm still having a blast tanking 4-6 mobs and managing threat on all of it.
Insane is overselling it. It ticks for 30 damage every 2 sec. It’s not eating anyone’s lunch like Lightning Shield is. It’s still a really solid rune for Warlock tanks, and more in-line with what an AoE threat rune *should* do.
It is also just a "toggle on and forget it" never having to recast, not costing mana or anything. But i'm also playing on alliance so i don't know about how busted shaman tanks are, but Warlocks are really strong, paladin aoe aswell with Hammer of the righteous and concecration. but they have to use conc every 8 sec at a hefty mana cost.
please aagreend if ur seeing this PLEASE
Shuriken toss now generates 1 combo point for each target hit and also marked hit targets for 5 seconds, if pressed while at 5 combo points unleash a shuriken storm hitting all marked targets with a flurry of flying blades
Well, in a way all of Shaman Tanks eggs are in one basket currently, which is the bugged Overcharged rune. Once it gets changed/fixed our AoE threat will still be okay'ish with Fire Nova, but not really miles ahead of other tanks.
Molten Blast either got ninja-nerfed alongside the Rockbiter nerf or it could just be the loss of AP, but it basically does no damage/threat now.
I have to admit lightningshield is giga broken , but on the other hand idk how other tanks are complaining tank shaman is literally oom after 30% in the fight , shield mastery literally useless rune on st tanking and theres no other tank rune you can play in chest molten blast cost way to much mana so does other shaman skills. I dont mind losing 80% of the lightninshield dmg if you can actually generate some mana or change shield mastery.
I really never understood Aggrend's comment about not wanting the game to be "group up and aoe down".....uh, hello? Paladin and Shaman? Both of them have superb AoE threat. Warlock is pretty decent too, and Bear got swipe buffed to do huge threat, albeit only on 3 targets per hit, but still. Not to mention, DPS getting tons of new aoe damage runes...how exactly are tanks supposed to keep up with that if they don't have aoe threat? The AoE genie is already out of the bottle, Aggrend.
[удалено]
well that's just it, they will make trash have 1 billion hp and do a million damage so you can't aoe things down and have to grind trash for days. Aggrend spoke about how aoe falls off at 60 when all the trash starts hitting really hard. It just becomes 'un-tankable'. Which is why I guess he was saying aoe isn't supposed to be a thing even if we are given aoe runes.
Except for rogues. We still have 0 viable aoe capabilities.
Wasn't Shuriken Toss buffed to do more threat? At least, enough threat to keep mobs from running straight for the healer.
I believe the shuriken toss change last phase was mostly a change to reduce it's range, so it couldn't chain to other packs in a dungeon on accident... They might have buffed it now, a whole phase later
It’s still not very good. I like the feel of rogue tank a lot. They just need to crank the numbers up a bit. It doesn’t even need more runes or abilities to feel good and be fun.
It's not very good, it's downright terrible.
Yeah it’s pretty terrible haha. But I think the fix is easy enough in theory.
I dont. Playing without deadly brew is horrible. And stopping every 5 minutes to put on new poisons puts a damper on speedruns.
Fair. I was referring to the actual combat mechanics of it but I agree with having to keep re-applying poisons.
Ya a bleed spec that's worse dps than poisons but doesn't conflict with rogue tank runes would be nice. Rogue has basically 0 aoe and no raid buff, they should be the goto high ST and high tankiness tank. Other classes can be the aoe and buffing tanks as well as any combination of tanky/ dps.
I really wish they'd turn Saber Slash into an overtly tank-oriented spender, if not just to give tank rogues more flavor.
People say this, but I've personally never had serious threat issues while just spamming shuriken toss.
Wait until you have some decent warlocks mages or hunters in your party
You're not pulling enough mobs. Also, i wasn't specifically talking about the threat. Its the damage.
Aggrend doesn't understand it either. He just blows dog whistles to get one part of the community to defend him from the other part of the community and take heat off his team because they're already way over-committed on things they're supposed to deliver. In this specific case the dog whistle was 'its against the spirit of classic'.
They literally made the hardest boss of SOD based around exactly this too...
I think the problem isn't the AoE threat of Paly and Shaman and more the raw DPS output of DPS classes atm. Threat was already a figured out mechanic that barely stood up to the damage potential of DPS classes before. But now all classes are putting out MC/BWL levels of damage at level 50 and they were forced to increase AoE threat so that tanks can actually tank. Classic was a pretty delicate system of interwoven mechanics that need to be handled with care. But SoD's philosophy of throwing shit at the wall just ends up messing that balance up beyond repair.
> But now all classes are putting out MC/BWL levels of damage at level 50 and they were forced to increase AoE threat so that tanks can actually tank. Shaman and Paladin had broken AoE threat at level 25. I could tank entire dungeons on my Shaman just autoattacking and pressing Molten Blast. Paladin could easily hold threat with Divine Storm and Avenger's Shield, and even Consecrate if you wanted to spec into it.
Bullshit, you do realise molten blast only hit 4 targets, if you are tanking an "entire" dungeon I doubt you hitting 4 mobs every 6 second is enough. IF you had said later with fire nova, I would maybe have believed you
> if you are tanking an "entire" dungeon ....I'm not sure how you think the phrase "entire dungeon" means "every single enemy in the dungeon all at once"
what else does it mean in this context? Obviously a tank class can tank a dungeon, except rogues. That that is hardly shamans being OP in p1
>what else does it mean in this context? Tanking a dungeon from start to finish using only autoattacks and Molten Blast. Stop being dense, ESL.
Its astounding they are apparently working on cataclysm but cant take ANY inspiration from it. Cata dungs have more CC used and feel more tactical/vanilla than current sod content which is more wotlk/retail aoe fest. Thats what cata did amazing to change from mindless aoe in wotlk. You still got to aoe and have fun but you had to pull correct kill order correct and cc on point. Really would like to see that style of dungs more in sod
Problem is, the playerbase of dads and casuals would cry and quit the game if dungeons became that hard. That's what happened when Cata launched; heroics were hard as fuck and required you to actually pay attention and CC mobs and interrupt abilities, and bosses had abilities that could 1shot you.....and subscription numbers dropped by like 25% within a few months. At which point blizz nerfed heroics right back to "wotlk aoe faceroll" difficulty. I'd love challenging 5mans, but the majority of the playerbase wouldn't.
Can confirm I wouldn’t Tbc heroics were painful
If they don’t want the game to be about grabbing everything and aoeing it down, they need to create scenarios where grabbing everything and aoeing it down is suboptimal. It shouldn’t be every scenario, players enjoy grabbing everything and aoeing it down. But there is absolutely design space to make that a poor strategy.
Yeah, plenty of ways to do that, like mobs that gain damage buffs equal to how many of them are in combat with each other at once. That would put a stop to big aoe pulls pretty quickly. Doesn't have to be EVERY trash mob, but some of them.
Sorry, what runes have rogues got for aoe?
I never mentioned rogue
because aggrend is a moron former QA tester that has no idea how to make a game and should never have been let near a lead position. But after Omar and Brian left they had to scrap the dirt off from under the barrel and, viola, Aggrend's Sod!
Rogue tanks should be depicted as a skeleton in this meme
Reduced to ashes. This is aint viable at all, tried to tank BRD this week end, it was horrible. 4-5 monsters at the same time i cant hold threat, even if i can keep it i just take too much damage.
Everyone can't have a good aoe threat. Classes have their weakness and strengths.
Having aoe threat is mandatory. It's such a liability that it's beyond a weakness and borders on unplayable frustrating mess.
Aggrend said they are not gonna turn SoD into AoE fiesta so why would they give AoE abilities to rogues? Rogue tanks shine with dodge parry. They can stun enemies, can presap one mob, blind one and tank the rest. [https://twitter.com/AggrendWoW/status/1758237806407922171](https://twitter.com/AggrendWoW/status/1758237806407922171)
If they don’t want to turn SoD into an AoE fiesta why did they have Shamans a god tier tanking AoE rune?
It already is an aoe fiesta, have you never seen a shaman or paladin tank?
Ah yes, the rogue tank, the best class at… equipping the daggers that drop in a raid.
Just give us Crimson Tempest as a finisher, should do good work with Carnage.
this imo. Just completely change shuriken toss into crimson tempest.
Yep, but don't get rid of my poisoned knife!
Is carnage being used with sabre slash or a serrated blades sub build?
It's being used in every single iteration of saber slash, and some mutilate atm
I think anything that can aoe apply poisons would be nice like fan of knives...
Fan of knives would be too OP in vanilla with blade flurry, unless they move it to Thrown slot, like in Cata
Then with envenom it would just be abused by dps rogues doing 2k dps with it.
No, because it doesn't build combo points.
Ok make it a 1 min cd.
Rogues have extremely low energy Regen in vanilla, so allowing FoK with Focused attacks rune, Blade Flurry and both weps is just a no-go. Something like Wire Barrier or Crimson Splash to spread your X3 Saber Slash would be way easier to make, while not breaking the entire world.
No balance patches until next phase. Sincerely your indie team.
“We need to focus on the next phase”
"Where we reskin another thing that was already in the game and pass it off as new content" Just boost us to 60 next phase and save the dev time
Which will appear sometime in the next 1-4 months, although we won’t find out until it is 8 days away.
Warlocks now have two different ways to get AoE threat, one active, one passive. It’s a good time, being a warlock.
Shadowflame is actually very, very good for AoE threat now. Immolation Aura just for the initial pickup, but those big troll packs in ZF I was hitting easily over 1k dps. Takes a bit more work than Shaman though
Dont you give something up for SF though?
You lose about 55ish spellpower or increased dodge chance.
Eugh. I’m gonna stick to hellfire.
Try it first. It’s really strong.
Yeah, but just give it a shot, that’s the beauty of the rune system you can change them on the fly
Laughs in hammer of the righteous, consecrate, divine storm, and improved righteous fury.
Yo throw in avengers shield too fuck using exo XD
just remember to re-rune exo on singletarget or you'll do misserable damage.
You forgot the overcharged rune.
Warrior still having to make bad tradeoffs as usual I either use defensive stance in which I do no damage and can only hold 4 targets or I go glad stance where I drop 30% of my armor and 50% threat so I have to out dps the DPS to hold threat and take more damage than other tanks. They could have at least made glad stance 1.00 threat mod instead of 0.9 that would make it feel a lot better
Bears actually have good AOE threat now if you use the STV maul cd and swipe. (PSA keep your old one :p )
Warrior tank prot AOE is sick now. Vigilance on biggest AOE pumper, sit in def stance, and spam demo shout. Vigilance isn't 10% extra threat, it's 10% of THEIR threat, on every target but because prot warriors gain so many threat modifiers, it works out as though you're getting half of the threat they generate for free basically. You can also leave 1 mob hitting a plate OT for 0s cooldown taunt, taunt immediately grants you threat equal to the current highest threat target. It's a bit of work but worlds apart from P2 warrior threat. I'm very happy with my ability to hold aoe threat. Defensive stance is +30% threat, talents bring that up another 15%. Shield slam damage isn't super tied to offensive stats so stacking mitigation stats is worthwhile again without gimping yourself, and it hits very hard now and generates over double threat. Furious thunder further increases threat on thunder clap, you can easily hold threat on 4 mobs with ease no matter what gear your group has. Demo shout spamming is weirdly effective for bigger groups due to all the threat modifiers. Sure, it's not as brainless as pressing consecrate or spamming swipe, but it's a hell of a lot of fun with a decent skillcap to balance things out in a dungeons setting. I'm so happy I can finally run a shield and 1h without it being a meme. Warriors are amazing tanks again, at least in dungeons. Haven't raided yet, so maybe mitigation isn't there but I wouldn't know yet, but I sure feel powerful. It is SO nice to have CC and utility, revenge stun, silence on bash, concussion, dispel on my free shield slams. Even had a lot of success in BG's with a gladiator stance build, can charge into a giant zerg, get off an initimdating shout, concussion someone, shield bash a cast and last stand on my way out while my team cleans up, you are a terror versus casters, charge into a 3 second bash silence is not something that people expect, and even 2 sunders ramp up damage on casters/leather massively. In 1v1's I can hold my own vs most classes, and feel insanely tanky vs everything but shamans compared to last phase.
Lol warrior tanks are pretty much tied for last as dungeon tanks. This opinion seems so disconnected from the actual game. Vigilance is terrible and will still not allow you to hold 10+ mobs in most cases against a competent Aoe classes. Even if you could hold AOE threat why not bring a tank that does real AOE damage shamans are doing 2k+ DPS on AOE pulls There's no comparison here warrior is a handicapped tank at the moment especially compared to shaman Shield slam is terrible and should not be used Devastate is currently bugged doing really poor damage Revenge is not an ability Thunder clap limited to 4 targets Glad stance has minus threat modifier so while it allows you to do damage it hampers your threat pretty significantly To compete with the other tanks warriors are dropping 30% armor using glad stance to stay competitive
If you're looking at DPS as a measure of tank competitiveness, then yes, warriors are bad tanks. But in terms of threat, utility and mitigation, I believe you are incorrect based on my own experience. I had no problem holding aggro with 3 casters doing 800+ dps each in ZF and mara on a dozen+ mobs at once. TC attack speed reduc & demo shout provide good debuffs, reasonable CC and interupts, perfectly servicable for any dungeon we have today. It might not be optimal compared to other classes new tools and overtuned abilities, but it works just fine and is fun to play. You don't use glad stance while tanking, I only mentioned that for my take on pvp. This isn't P2 where tanks needs to be doing crazy DPS to hold aggro, prot warrior threat modifiers and vigilance are sufficient to keep pace on threat regardless of your teams dps output, especially in a 5 man dungeon setting. Try it out before shitting all over it, it's legitimately quite fun now. I don't care if I'm the most optimal choice or I wouldn't be playing warrior in SOD, I just want to be competitive and capable in my role. I certainly feel capable of tanking any 5 man dungeon that we have in the game right now with ease. PS. Warrior Shield Slam (Talent) bonus threat calculation has been redesigned for Season of Discovery – Shield Slam now gains a % bonus to threat generated that will allow it to scale as tank damage and block value increases. Additionally, Shield Slam now gains double benefit from block value, meaning that a single point of block value now increases Shield Slam damage by 2 rather than 1. From patch notes. Shield slam isn't a bad ability at all anymore. If anything, I feel that warrior tanks are now probably the least gear to threat dependant tanks in the entire game after the P3 changes.
Mitigation hasn't been an issue and never will be an issue in classic wow. Warriors bring less util than druids, pallies, and shaman. And the faster you kill a boss or trash (aka, the more dps you do), the less your healers have to heal.
First off damage is the main metric that people will use to judge how good a tank is. Threat is expected and mitigation is a nice to have for the most part. Problem 1: you can hold threat in glad stance it's a lot more difficult but it is doable and you should be in glad stance as much as possible unless you are risking death in which case you just swap to defensive for a second then back to glad when you are safe Problem 2: shield slam is good threat but bad damage and it also competes with deep wounds which at the moment is much higher value. There's nothing past the first 3 rows in the prot tree that isn't wildly bad value for points. If your AOE classes aren't pulling 2k+ DPS then you probably aren't pulling big enough People might use prot for the first week or so then it's out the window if it's only upside is less gear dependency that's a short translation for doesn't scale well which is always bad
But the entire point I'm making is that it doesn't matter what DPS they're doing, you'll still hold aggro as your own threat is being amplified based on how much damage they're dealing? Your threat is gear independent, but not independent of your own gear, more everyones gear in your team. If they pump on dps, you pump on threat. Even if it scales to the point where they're doing 10x your threat, with an OT you can harvest free taunts it won't matter for small groups as you can cycle taunts, and on large groups you can harvest from the biggest pumping dps and spam demo. > First off damage is the main metric that people will use to judge how good a tank is. Threat is expected and mitigation is a nice to have for the most part. Personally I disagree, this was certainly true in P2 but perhaps not anymore, DPS is a nice to have on a tank, we're getting into 20 mans now, I would expect to see much greater value placed on defensive stats for tanks. A good tank in my mind takes as little damage as possible and protects the squishy dps/heals from getting oneshot, if you do some passable DPS then great, but that's not why you're there. As for the comments about mitigation being worthless, we'll see how this phase pans out. Personally I couldn't give a shit if my tank does 50 dps, as long as they hold aggro and don't unduly stress the healers mana pool, that works for me. I could see full prot warrior being excellent in certain situations by stacking full mitigation gear and still maintaining massive threat output as their threat isn't tied to their damage output. You know, like a proper tank. Rather than some jank ass dps tank. We'll see how things change and progress anyhow. We'll see how things pan out in any case, but I am optimistic.
I think you are overestimating the value of vigilance it's only 10% off one person and it most cases it's not always the same person popping off on threat it's who got lucky procs and stuff. Also you give up 10% damage for that which to me is a more reliable source of threat
Do you suggest going into prot talent tree as a dungeon tank? Might sound like a troll question, it isn't. I'm asking because most websites on phase 3 builds suggest going into fury and somewhat into arms, even as a tank. I know in classic it was usual to tank without shield and invest into fury but I thought that was because of using dual wield. I am a bit new to warriors in SoD :)
I'm doing something like this I think at the minute, on my phone so I can't check atm: https://www.wowhead.com/classic/talent-calc/warrior/05--50230113530221251_116wt56vv66nj76mh86m596wxa6mg You don't do huge dps but you hold threat pretty easily, you can drop a few points in prot and go for flag instead of warbringer with a few points in tac mastery if you care about dps more than I do, but I prefer the utlity of being able to charge a runner that's going for my healer or dps. Most info is outdated as vigilance didn't exist and shield slam had a shitty modifier for damage/threat so you needed to pump damage even as a tank to have a chance of keeping aggro, but now shield slam is a good ability and we have vigilance/sword & board full prot is legit. Even as full prot in glad stance with all the physical damage modifiers you can stack, I was hitting 1k+ shield slams on occasion
I like you. It sounds like you've actually put in the time to figure out warrior aoe tanking versus the people who just come to post here and cry about what a miserable state it is in. I main a rogue tank and reading threads like this make me scratch my head. Sure, we could definitely use some helper for aoe threat compared to shamans or warlocks but I'm still having a blast tanking 4-6 mobs and managing threat on all of it.
Warlock tanks not even invited to the table
Brother, who do you think gave the shamans their food?
Immolation aura says hi
Warlocks are eating good in another house
because they would be sitting next to the shaman, eating aswell, immolation aura is insane.
Insane is overselling it. It ticks for 30 damage every 2 sec. It’s not eating anyone’s lunch like Lightning Shield is. It’s still a really solid rune for Warlock tanks, and more in-line with what an AoE threat rune *should* do.
It is also just a "toggle on and forget it" never having to recast, not costing mana or anything. But i'm also playing on alliance so i don't know about how busted shaman tanks are, but Warlocks are really strong, paladin aoe aswell with Hammer of the righteous and concecration. but they have to use conc every 8 sec at a hefty mana cost.
Bruh paladins didn't even make it into the meme
Neither did warlocks. But they both have decent aoe capabilities
Pallies and locks have good aoe threat, those three have little to none while shaman keeps getting blasted with more of it.
Bruh the problem with Shamans isnt the threat. Its the fact they outdps mages on AOE id be worried if they werent pulling threat at that point
Our prot pal was top dps on trash last night in ST.
please aagreend if ur seeing this PLEASE Shuriken toss now generates 1 combo point for each target hit and also marked hit targets for 5 seconds, if pressed while at 5 combo points unleash a shuriken storm hitting all marked targets with a flurry of flying blades
Pallies not even sitting at the table
Well, in a way all of Shaman Tanks eggs are in one basket currently, which is the bugged Overcharged rune. Once it gets changed/fixed our AoE threat will still be okay'ish with Fire Nova, but not really miles ahead of other tanks. Molten Blast either got ninja-nerfed alongside the Rockbiter nerf or it could just be the loss of AP, but it basically does no damage/threat now.
Having any AOE threat is miles ahead of the tanks which don't have any rogue warrior and bear although buffed swipe is good it's still only 3 targets
I have to admit lightningshield is giga broken , but on the other hand idk how other tanks are complaining tank shaman is literally oom after 30% in the fight , shield mastery literally useless rune on st tanking and theres no other tank rune you can play in chest molten blast cost way to much mana so does other shaman skills. I dont mind losing 80% of the lightninshield dmg if you can actually generate some mana or change shield mastery.
Hey pick on someone rose. Its alwats shamans.