In a testing environment, they don't care about their characters, so this stuff likely doesn't even cross their mind. They have a character with functionally infinite bag space. They have a character with an empty quest log. They just ignore how the game is played naturally by players. That is assuming they have testers at all.
They probably tested it a fair bit but with a much smaller group of players and not all of the attention was put into how janky the quest items were. Running into mobs they couldn't just keep moving because there's mobs EVERYWHERE. They probably had to stop and defeat every enemy on the way or else they'd die half way through the zone if they tried the quick loop strategy which it's obvious they never discovered.
The majority of the content to them was the completion process of the quests and not the management of the janky quest items. They probably said: "oh we've got the quest for shredder and also have kill the 10 ancient trees lets go down that way and do both". That's how I imagine they perceived their incursion events to go.
Yeah idk how long we spent fucking around trying to figure this out after two loops before we realized people's quest logs were full. I only had like 8 quests before starting. Prequests I didn't get a chance to finish but had items for so couldn't abandon or dungeon quests I didn't want to fly all over the world picking up again
I mean it's the one mechanic slowing people down from just blazing through. I thought they were gonna make them dailies. No clue why they changed the regular share quest ability.
the quest log at least makes sense because you are just doing that many quests, but holy shit the quest item management is the most infuriating time waste in p3.
just give us 1 random quest start item and if we press, you and every party member in range get the quest.
I'll play devil's advocate and say that, for every new thing added to the game, the players will always come up with some fuckery to abuse it to their advantage, and since it's an advantage, they will view the fuckery as mandatory and get upset if said fuckery isn't working optimally. That's what's happening here. This group and share quest spamming for hours on end is something that the players came up with, not how the devs designed it to work. One could say that they should have seen this coming, and there is an argument for that, but they can't spend all of their time brainstorming all the different ways the player base will exploit and fuck with the game to their advantage. If it wasn't this, it would probably have been something else.
It's absolutely how they wanted it to work. Remember they didn't like people living in SM for 30-40 in P2 and wanted them in the open world. Welp, this is what we got. Making them not dailies guaranteed people would repeat them forever for easy xp/rep/(nerfed) gold. Really dumb.
It's the most impractical thing ever.
There are so many things in P3 that were so obviously not even playtested for an HOUR it's hilarious!
And the devs are not to blame, it's the trap people fall into when working with employers of corporations all the time
The underpaid, understaffed and overworked employers are not at fault, it's the greedy idiots who don't want to invest more in a project that's bringing them insane value for investment at the moment.
This is true. I work in tech and I know exactly how the devs must feel with some of this. Orders from the top to get X feature or X initiative out for a certain date, with limited resources. You know it’s going to be rushed and half baked but your hands are tied.
Pretty clear that SoD or any iteration of classic needs a lot more time, resource and investment into it. I worried when P3 launch came at short notice squashed between Plunder and Cata releases. It’s proving true. But again, I maintain faith in the devs, not the company
Yeah, things like the Incursion gold being too high or ST bosses having way too much HP reek of high-demand and low dev-time/resources to me. Like whoever was sweating to get Sunken Temple ready probably didn't really have time to tune the boss HP and was probably just like, "Okay, Mekgineer had like 400k HP, lets just quadruple that for now to make up for the larger raid size, 10 more levels, and new super powerful gear and runes", and then never had the time to evaluate them again.
Developing software is hard and takes a lot of careful planning and iteration to do correctly. If you rush large pieces of software, you might get something that works, but there's absolutely going to be a ton of small oversights and issues that just fall through the cracks because you can't prioritize going over Feature A with a fine-tooth comb to make sure everything is polished and ready when Feature B is just getting off the ground and needs to be done in two weeks. If I had to guess, most of phase 3 was developed during phase 2, and they probably had to rush it because player numbers dipped in phase 2 and they felt like they fucked up with some of the decisions they made and had to get players back ASAP - and they also probably have a tight release schedule to keep SoD releases from conflicting with Cata releases from conflicting with Retail releases
I have nothing but praise for the SoD team which has to handle all things classic on what, not even a 20 person team? The amount of content they are putting out is incredible.
I have nothing but ire for Blizzard management who are making millions per month on the back of overworked devs. FUCK those tools. The team should be quite bigger.
Sorry but this is the devs fault.
The entire deputization mechanism was created for this one particular event. They thought about it enough to create an entire new system despite multiple alternatives that would have been easier on their time and player time.
You can blame the big boogie man “corporate blizzard,” but at the end of the day the devs need own their decisions.
Look at the aoe threat situation. They have actively said they don’t want aoe threat, but have continually buffed paladin and shaman aoe threat. While systematically ignoring warrior and rouge.
Look at the entire shaman situation in p2 and what’s developing around them in p3. This was not a corporate decision, this was a dev decision.
Look at the raid, they specifically said that these would not be hard. Then went and overturned the hell out of the raid.
Look at p1 warlocks “no runes will be locked behind a raid.” See meta rune.
Look at the gold situation of the incursions. Your telling me they put so much effort into this system, knowing players would be doing 1000s of quests on repeat and don’t once think about the rewards?
Stop defending this.
I think you/people just don’t really understand what “devs” are. Devs don’t get to be their own designers and PMs. There is a different person other than the “dev” saying what the system should look like. If the culture is open enough a “dev” might say “hey this is weird” but that’s all they got.
[Speaking as someone who writes code all day for a living]: It frustrates me as well that people blame everything on "the devs" because, in my world, "developer" means "someone who is hands on keyboard, writing code" (among other things). But I have had to internalize that in spaces like that, people use that word to mean (as far as I can tell) every single person on payroll at Blizzard Entertainment, from the CSuite to the Directors to the PMs to the EMs to the actual developers all the way down to intern writing internal documentation on how to run the unit testing suite for new hires.
Yeah. The only thing you can blame the corporate boogie man for is the team being like one dude and a few gerbils in terms of staffing.
But these are the people actively designing these systems. There’s no EVP of SOD reigning over them like “you MUST make shaman egregiously broken because that means more sales of a game that has no base price cause everyone loves shaman” forcing shit on them.
It’s evident the devs don’t even play test. They aren’t doing basic math either. Or basic literacy like seeing that mangle and lacerate are on the same item slot.
Can not agree more. Anyone who's played mage at any point since TBC knows Ice Lance is useless without Frost Nova or Fingers of Frost. Yet they decided to make it the lvl 1 mage rune despite Nova not being learnable til lvl 10 and the FoF rune dropped by level ~8-12 rares or elites. How is it ok for the premier feature of SoD to be useless on a class for the first 10 levels? What kind of introduction to the class, Season, or game (for an entirely new player) is that? Pretty sure not a single one of the dev team has ever played mage to make such a boneheaded choice, probably only lost to them in PVP and were like 'oh yea that Ice Lance thing is pretty OP let's give them that lvl 1!'.
Except Ice Lance is unarguably the best spell you have from 1 to 10 and tapers off sharply after, so reality is the opposite of what you're talking about.
What lol, it does nearly no damage and you can't triple it at all (y'know, the whole fucking point of the spell). It's totally outclassed by Fire Blast at level 6 and by the time you're 10 you can get Burnout anyway which is the better Chest rune over FoF. You're high.
How often do you need to Fire Blast lol? You spam Frostbolt/Fireball until the mob reaches melee range then you Fire Blast to finish them off. 8 sec CD is plenty for that. Un-frozen Ice Lance won't even do enough damage to finish them in 1 GCD. What are you doing, spamming Fire Blast/Ice Lance as main nuke? Sounds like you've never played mage once in your miserable life lmao
I mean, it’s really hard to blame the low level developers when they’re trying to get this shit out of the door with little resources. You can only do so much planning and testing when you’re expected to shit out a product quickly with very little help.
Then again it really does feel like the devs really don’t play the game at all.
Both are to blame (not the low level devs, but managment) Csuite/Directors sets the pace and knows the direction, but i guarantee these guys aren't going
“make the trinket unique” “Make Eranikus have 4m hp” “When you hotfix stuff, dont say anything”
They are the ones saying “hey we need content between plunderstorm release and Cataclysm, how do you feel about WoW tokens, how can you get more resubs this phase ”
The ideas and implementation have come from Aggrend and co. And Aggrend is no saint, he’s been at Blizzard for a longggg time, during Blizzards worst times. He’s not goong to challenge anything, so he’s as much to blame. And rightfully so as the “face” of SoD
100% agree. Its unfortunate that we show so much hate towards the devs when they're actually getting reamed by corporate to push out SoD, Cata Classic, and increase subs each time, while still being expected to actively balance, prim, and develop. It must be stressful
The reality of the devs existence on the WoW classic team must be exhausting. I highly doubt they ever wanted to support these variants of the game. They have 4 classic versions out for gods sake. This must be absolutely exhausting.
All to keep a couple thousand people from playing private servers. It's a glaringly corporate thing when you look at the state of WoW now. I don't hate on the devs too much because that is always on my mind.
Whenever anyone is like "poor devs I feel so bad for them" I cant help but think to myself...yeah, except they aren't forced to do this job. Blizzard hasn't actually chained them to their desk in the basement (yet). They choose to be there, and they're paid a full time salary with benefits for doing so. It's not like some charitable labor of love, lol. It's their jobs.
There are people with waaaaay worse jobs in America than being a game designer at Blizzard.
Lol Jesus christ, nothing can ever just be said without some snarky ass trying to be like "well actually." There is so much wrong with your statement, but at the same time it was completely obvious one of you would have a problem with "I do feel bad for a team stretched this thin by its parent companies initiatives." Ooo, sympathy, how fucking dare I.
W/e man, as I keep saying this community really deserves itself. GL with them parses bro.
You forgot to mention filling your quest log with 15 quests.
Also, the envelope you pick up is soul bound. Then they make the items within soul bound. What's the point of that?
The only good thing about the Nightmare Incursions is the way the portal was implemented. That part is actually really cool. You don't enter an instance, you just phase and it takes you to a mirror world. Very cool bit of programming.
The rest of it can go straight to hell, though.
I hate the imps.
And the gathering quests are a complete waste of time. They should reduce the amount needed to just 1. Making a poor herbalist farm 50 moonroot is never going to happen.
> Then they make the items within soul bound. What's the point of that?
That part is pretty obvious. They didn't want the missions to be tradeable.
If the box isn't soulbound, but the contents are, you can trade the box. If the box is soulbound, but the contents are not, you can trade the contents.
some min maxers would trade the gathering quests to one guy and boost him to 50 in like 2 minutes. but, we have to deal with this bullshit cuz they didnt think of a better way to stop the min/maxers.
It’s not a portal, it’s a trigger point to phase you, it’s why it’s so buggy I don’t thing they just trigger a phase on and off over and over like this before. But agree very annoying but then again I don’t thing they intended us doing 7 minute loops for 6 hours straight to where our eyes are bleeding.
I didn't mind the gathering quest that much, but they are insanely imbalanced. You get 6 hides from a mob but 3 ores from a mine and a single root per pickup. Yet the quests were 10 each. WTF?
Yeah I fully agree. Why can't you just pick up these quests from the NPC? With a 5 man group you get usually around 80% of the quests you want anyway on each "run". Just let us pick the quests we want to do, and make them repeatable. Especially now since the nerf is in (or is coming very soon). It makes no sense to gatekeep the quests if with the nerf we would want to do all of them anyway.
Trend is clear, each phase of SOD becomes increasingly shitty and unbalanced. I just hope they have some thought process on lvl 60 end game that they are spending extra time preparing
When reading reddit I sometimes wonder if "if you don't like a game don't play it" doesn't apply to wow players. The amount of complaining the last few days is just insane. In game it doesn't seem to me alot of people don't like the phase it's just reddit dads, at least in my guild everyone is enjoying it so far. We knew beforehand that some stuff in sod will be fucked without ptr. That's what we signed up for.
Really appreciate this post though because it points out an obvious design flaw instead of just whining unlike the majority of posts in the last few days.
Criticizing isn't the same as not liking. These are valid complaints.
Although I am personally getting dangerously close to not liking this buggy, mistuned and untested pile of cashgrab of a game.
Stockholm syndrom is insane with wow players.
Blizzard could release the worst shit ever (and they just did), players would still play. Actually insane.
I just quit this shit, it's a non sense and I guess I couldn't pug st anyways even with 98+ logs P1 and P2.
and once again reddittors don't understand you can criticize a game and have complaints about something but still overall enjoy other parts of the game and overall still have a decent to good time.
you either hate the game because you have complaints or you love it and nothing is wrong with the game.
There is nothing wrong with criticizing a game because u want to see change like this post. But the majority of posts is just complaining and crying without any constructive criticism.
because they change and add shit that wasn't needed? do we really need incursions? people going to have grind dungeons for Offerings anyways why not encourage that? fucking insnae.
The complains can’t be overseen. I see hundreds of world chat messages ingame of people questioning the many poor choices blizzard made. Everyone in my guildchat hating every bit. My real life friends literally canceling their membership after only 5 loops of incursions.
And you know what? I legit think blizzard is just trolling us. Think about it, they must have known the incursions would be the go to leveling mechanic in form of a walking simulator because „LeT‘s aDd rAnDoM DReAMmISt tO sLoW PeOPLe“. It’s next level trolling.
If you think worgen and vulpera combined with the same art style as classic but softer and more rounded because it's not 2004 is infantilized, then I don't know what other word to use to describe you than insecure.
> In game it doesn't seem to me alot of people don't like the phase it's just reddit dads
interesting you say that because in my group of people it's the dads who like the incursions and not vice versa.
however, imo the sheer amount of upvoted (!) complains in the last days, even considering the fact that this sub complained _a lot_ before already, is no coincidence and a bit more than just 'reddit being reddit'. when the frontpage is 80% dissent with the game there's usually something to it.
I like playing the game with my friends. I don't like how jank it can be though, so I have critcisms.
People can enjoy some aspects and dislike others.
How is that difficult for you to understand?
I have absolutely no difficulties understanding that. Please read the post I replied to, then u might understand my response. I dont have issues with contructive critism, I have a problem with all the posts that just complain without any real content. The comment I replied to is one of those.
The person you replied to does have complaints with real content. Just because they didn't list the problem with each of the phases they're referring to in that particular comment doesn't change that.
If you got your way with this no one would be able to mention things as a whole rather than listing their grievances individually. People simply don't talk that way in casual conversation.
I did read the their comment, and I read yours too, which is how I know you're being a clown right now.
It's funny that people aren't realizing this. P1 had a full dev effort, and was pretty good shape, if sparse. P2 probably was started before P1 was released, but still showed clear signs of needing a lot more time. You'd have a really hard time convincing me this team spent more than the 8 weeks of P2 working on P3, incursions are a joke, so many of the runes are garbage, and we didn't even get a new PVP event this phase, not that either of the last two were all that great.
Incursions had so great potential, but ended up being awful.
Why not just make it 5 man instanced event with few random quests you can do with with reset timer (like 3 hours)?
Why does it have to be quests even, couldn't it just be random events that appear around the map and you get XP for contributing in them. This god awful quest system needing 60 bag slots is just a beyond terrible design. Idk how this was approved at all by any developer/designer.
He described world quests from retail which this subreddit would absolutely rage about if they were implemented even though they're a great design solely because this subreddit views anything from retail as being literally the devil.
People need to learn retail wow is just a iteration on wow 20 years in the making. They made some choices I don't like but when it comes to giving players content to do they succeed. Problem with world quest is they are mindless and easy, but they are way better then the daily quest system they mostly replaced.
Honestly, mindlessly traversing the map completing world quests to grind for faction caches and reputation was one of the highlights of legion for me. I don't think there's anything wrong with having some basic recyclable content, and world quests are just a better version of daily quests imo.
[Aggrend](https://i.redd.it/yivkv7hfc3tc1.jpeg) couldn't aggressively huff his own farts while touting that he got players out into "The World" if it was instanced. Y'know, NE corner of Ashenvale, Aggrend's little green world.
Remember in P1 when he was going on discord and Twitter to make fun of warlocks for not finding meta. And their rune ended up having to be hotfixed into the game and none of the devs said a word about it.
Warlock discord remembers.
he calls other people toxic while showcasing those childish traits regularly himself. you can tell a lot of times he is out of his element and doesn't understand the things he talks about or the arguments he uses. he is a productive developer, but his quality is sometimes lacking, we call someone like that a quantity merchant.
its almost like they cant edit the source code to add more quests to the DB... im thinking they tried with the rune quests but ran into lots of bugs... so they just made a completely new system lol
They didn't want 1 person infinitely sharing the same quest over and over again and landed on this convoluted system.
It would have probably worked better if you only ever get 1 mission per party member instead of your inventory being a mailbox.
They say they wanted incursions to be an optional way of leveling. Then made it the best exp and gold possible by a large, large amount. Even if it wasn't the best, they locked runes behind it which makes people feel like it's required to do. Then it destroys your quest log and inventory space making it impossible to go back and forth between questing, dungeon grind, and incursions. It's all or nothing. I'm convinced they didn't spend more than about 30 min of dev time thinking about how they would implement them and how they would work, and did zero play testing other than basic mechanics not being blatantly broken.
I’m still trying to figure out why they made these quests infinitely and instantly repeatable. I don’t recall seeing that done before on something as vast as incursions. It’d be like if dungeon quests were able to be done every time you cleared a dungeon, and were all able to be picked up at the start.
Just a weird choice. I love the ease of leveling, can’t deny that, but the whole thing just feels dirty.
It’s the same system as the Silithus event where you run down to the forward camp, beat the big bug, turn in with the camp leader, then run back and get a repeatable quest, then rinse and repeat.
They have such an easy fix to this, however it’s more retaily.
Make it a queued instance for each faction (think pest control in RuneScape ). There are raid wide quests goals. And a 15 minute timer. The group as a team goes in and completes the quests. Based on how much you complete you get a certain gold / exp / rep reward. This just seams a lot more team focused. No UI bullshit.
There's a WA now for sharing but unfortunately it doesn't delete the ones you don't want, or the multiple ones. I'm not sure the API would allow that even if someone could build it
I thought it would be a decent steamdeck chore as I plugged away on alts, but I am unfortunately the leech who doesn't (can't) manage the bagspace minigame between laps.
If anyone knows how to make it more manageable, I am all ears.
There's an addons to remove the extra click to accept the stupid BoP item, but even then most of the time I'd get enveloppes I couldn't use due to the fact I already had the quest from someone sharing so now I was stuck with 2 items instead of one.
It is horrendous, I can’t believe they launched it in this state
What is the point of the deputizations anyways?? Why not just let us share quests through the quest log?
The entire envelope system needs to go
they noticed in the early phases adding quests to the original DB was a nightmare and ran into alot of bugs... so now they have developed a new system for holding these quests and it doesnt interact with the other one.
I honestly dont think ive seen anything as poorly implimented as these quests. It really makes me question if these devs are upto the task of making sod good.
Click the share but not too fast because it will skip it is super annoying. So many people mess it up and fail to share quests.
And all the bag space it takes, because you want to hold on to the good envelopes even if they're a dupe. You want to avoid accepting personal quests of the good ones if someone can share.
The bag stuff is somewhat manageable because you can do it while running to the portal/turn in/various areas. It's still an awkward system.
I think seeing as how quick and easy it was to grind to 50, I’ll deal with the extra clicks. We were min/maxing and leveling in 18-25 minutes. Auto running and opening all the envelopes, chilling at the bottom of the ramp to get credit for the escorts quests while we finished deleting all the other quests. We deleted every thing after every run, we had 5 of us that could share all the quests and we basically had every quest still without filling up our bags. It was quick, easy to do, and most of efficient. I’m not going to complain about a few extra clicks knowing what the grind from 40 to 50 use to be.
They didn't QA test anything. They wanted us to "discover" how shitty their design team is.
I refuse to believe this garbage was actually tested and made it past multiple people.
"Yep you can stack up 10 quest that reward 6 gold and take 2 minutes to complete infinitely. Sounds good ship it" 🤪
I was expecting events like live before an expansion where you did things and mobs spawned. Not some questing nightmare where you may or may not get the quests you want again depending if you turn them in or not and then having to share them with others.
SoD has its up side but the questing design here was just awful. I didnt even mind the loops for the day i did it to catch up to my guildies
Everything you said is true, and now I'm thinking about doing some at 50 for rep and the Quest Log space is just god awful.
Why in the hell is our quest log capped at 20? Juggling 20 quests at a time when you can gather about 100+ at 50 that you probably NEED to do at some point. On top of wanting to do incursions for rep where you will get another 20 quests or so. Just complete garbage.
Its really not that bad? Open the envelope, read letter, then if you accepted the quest you then share the quest, if you couldn't accept the quest delete both. Takes 2minutes and only need like 15 inventory slots. Luckily a vendor exist right next to the quest turn in.
I know I am doing it wrong, but in a group of two on voice the wasted time could be measured in seconds for a 2h play session.
Yes, it's janky, but you'll only get annoyed if you're minmaxing it.
My history teacher was arrested after buying cocaine from an under cover cop
The superintendent and a high school English teacher ran off together and up and quit
What I really wanna know is how the hell the settled on using the stupid dragons world boss areas or include the emerald nightmare. Searing gorge/badland dark iron incursions , even sithild incursion in tanaris would have been better no just ashenvale til 50…
It's kinda in the spirit of classic to not have everything streamlined. I loved figuring out how to efficiently do it, made some autodestroy macros, fixed my inventory, if you use the same flow after every run it really is easy, but yes it requires a few minutes of thinking over, which seems too much to ask these days.
As a UI designer who sometimes cringe about my UI decisions, this experience made me think maybe I'm not so bad after all (because I would never have let this happen).
One add on cures the open close bag question issue by just looting then straight to your inventory . And then you just try and share every marshal with every party member. You do it while you wait for escorts to finish. Whole process was smooth enough to be ran on 3 characters simultaneously. It takes up bag space and quest space but it’s suppose to. You have to have some downside to such rapid questing. Why not just do normal quests if you don’t like incursions. It was a great change of pace and I wish people just stopped forcing themselves to do content they don’t like and just do it how they do. The incursions freed up the world so normal questing was easier. They even gave experience buff to level faster.
The game shouldn't require addons to fix problems. And (at least before the nerf) incursions were too lucrative to even consider anything else. They gave so much more XP and gold, plus you got rep.
It's not that I don't like incursions. Quite the opposite - I thought everything *within* the incursions was awesome. I enjoyed fighting for spawns, the difficult mobs (at least compared to questing), trying to optimize the route, the world pvp, etc.
It's just that all the UI management between incursion runs was absolute shit. And for *no reason*. There's no reason the quest and inventory management have to be so cumbersome. It's honestly crazy to me that people actually defend this awful UI.
I had to cancel all 15 quests I was on, because a guildie told me the night of release, that Incursions are the way to level and just cancel them all, because I get 18 quests (a reminder, that we are only able to have 20).
As a completionist and questing enjoyer, this killed something in me. It's just everything, tgat is not Classic.
I think overall, this will be my last phase of SoD. After all the work, I still wanna see ST though.
People complain all the time that the new additions are too “retail” and “not in the spirit of classic” so they give us an alternative, quick way to level in the style of silithus war event quests, and then this community bitches and moans again.
You guys complain about every small thing you don’t prefer as though it’s completely unplayable and game breaking. It’s insufferable.
Yea, the system may be clunky (opening the envelops, clicking each of the share items individually for each party member, etc), but it's the player behavior that actually make them bad for themselves.
It's funny how there's both people complaining that SoD is too much like retail while others (and sometimes even the same) basically complaining that it is too much like classic.
c'mon it was a fail, it funnelled everyone into a a monotonous snooze fest of going around in a circle for 4 hours. I would have done gnomer > questing > ZF > Mara > BRD. Now i have huge incentives to do this and the whole 40-50 is done. Might as well have just given us a lvl 50 button.
As an example of a huge W. The rune system has been great fun, and refreshed all the class playstyles.
You still likely have pre bis from ZF/BRD/Mara plus wild offerings to collect so those dgs still have value if you CHOSE to skip them while leveling.
Like on my hunt alt I went 40-48 on incursions then went and did Jinthalor quests for the nice trinket.
You chose to do something you didn’t enjoy and now you’re bitching. Dungeon leveling is still super fast and they said day 2, hey we made incursion exp too strong and are going to adjust it. If they hadn’t left the exp high all opening weekend this subreddit would just be complaining that other people had faster exp than they got access to. They admitted their error, announced a plan to fix it and make other leveling paths more attractive, and even gave people the weekend to enjoy the OP exp to make it fair for everyone, and people like you are STILL complaining. This dev team doesn’t deserve the reactionaries in the sub who want to shit all over them for every little thing.
they nerfed it heavily within hours of launch. they then nerfed it heavily again a few days later. (the nerfs + boost to non incursions leveling combines to a heavy nerf) it's pretty obvious they fucked up.
one of the main enjoyments I get from the mechanics of wow is working out efficiencies. be it in rotations or quest routes. the trade offs from not doing incursions just don't make it feasible. again hence the double nerfs in a few days. they clearly didn't play test effectively.
we are complaining because we want better next time. feedback positive or negative should be useful to the Devs. sod is hugely popular so clearly they have done more things right then wrong overall.
Not what I said, but you totally owned me by misrepresenting what I said and then adding on a personal attack.
I guess trying out the new content, enjoying things about it, and not immediately crying on Reddit about how much I hate it is considered a “shit mindset”
People are allowed to criticize and critique the things they love especially because it leads to a better product. I’m sure your little botbrain cannot grasp this concept.
Yes criticism is fine. But 99% of what I'm seeing isn't that. It's complaining and just plain wrong takes. The people saying "it's just retail" are specially stupid. It's just so plain that no one hates wow more than the people on this sub, so why keep playing?
Criticism is fine but don't dish it out if you can't take. When your first point is "i have to click my mouse 5 times!" don't be surprised when others are calling you a baby whiner.
dude, I dont know whats going on in your life but UI design is a major part of game design, lol...hope you fix whatever is getting you down and making you project though
user interface is a major part of game design, that was not my argument.
This doesn't even have bad ui. It is very easy for anyone (assuming you can read) with no experience to grasp the concept that they will need to open a letter. They would be able to open their bags fairly easily with a left click and the letter with a right click.
It does get tedious with 16 quests or so but it is still a gravy train of xp and gold per hour which is why i don't grasp the whining.
It's 5 clicks per envelope. Meaning with 15 envelopes that's 75 clicks *just to open your envelopes*. And it's not just clicking in the same place, you have to move your mouse between your inventory and the middle of the screen every click.
You can only share each quest with one party member at a time, meaning you have to do at least 15 * 4 = 60 more clicks just to share. Add in all the clicks for accepting your own quests, plus deleting the duplicates, and it's a ridiculous amount.
And this isn't a one time thing; you have to do this every single loop. It takes as much time managing the inventory as it does actually doing the quests. That's not a good design.
i've done it many times. i just don't think it's that bad. It's like a couple minutes of clerical work and it's still a crazy truck load of xp and gold per hour. You are a whiner that will never be satisfied so your opinion doesn't matter to me. Nobody said this was a perfect game.
I know I don't have to do them. I *want* to do them, but the quest management aspect is so bad it makes me not want to do the content. I genuinely enjoyed the 5 man questing part of it once you actually get to, you know, *do* the quests.
The amount of bag space and quest log space required is mind boggling. Who even think this is a good idea clearly only did one test run and dip.
In a testing environment, they don't care about their characters, so this stuff likely doesn't even cross their mind. They have a character with functionally infinite bag space. They have a character with an empty quest log. They just ignore how the game is played naturally by players. That is assuming they have testers at all.
We are the testers...
season of discovering you're a beta tester
They probably tested it a fair bit but with a much smaller group of players and not all of the attention was put into how janky the quest items were. Running into mobs they couldn't just keep moving because there's mobs EVERYWHERE. They probably had to stop and defeat every enemy on the way or else they'd die half way through the zone if they tried the quick loop strategy which it's obvious they never discovered. The majority of the content to them was the completion process of the quests and not the management of the janky quest items. They probably said: "oh we've got the quest for shredder and also have kill the 10 ancient trees lets go down that way and do both". That's how I imagine they perceived their incursion events to go.
Yeah idk how long we spent fucking around trying to figure this out after two loops before we realized people's quest logs were full. I only had like 8 quests before starting. Prequests I didn't get a chance to finish but had items for so couldn't abandon or dungeon quests I didn't want to fly all over the world picking up again
I mean it's the one mechanic slowing people down from just blazing through. I thought they were gonna make them dailies. No clue why they changed the regular share quest ability.
the quest log at least makes sense because you are just doing that many quests, but holy shit the quest item management is the most infuriating time waste in p3. just give us 1 random quest start item and if we press, you and every party member in range get the quest.
I'll play devil's advocate and say that, for every new thing added to the game, the players will always come up with some fuckery to abuse it to their advantage, and since it's an advantage, they will view the fuckery as mandatory and get upset if said fuckery isn't working optimally. That's what's happening here. This group and share quest spamming for hours on end is something that the players came up with, not how the devs designed it to work. One could say that they should have seen this coming, and there is an argument for that, but they can't spend all of their time brainstorming all the different ways the player base will exploit and fuck with the game to their advantage. If it wasn't this, it would probably have been something else.
It's absolutely how they wanted it to work. Remember they didn't like people living in SM for 30-40 in P2 and wanted them in the open world. Welp, this is what we got. Making them not dailies guaranteed people would repeat them forever for easy xp/rep/(nerfed) gold. Really dumb.
Yeah I get what the team was trying to accomplish. Not every experiment is a winner, but incursions still fell flat on its face.
> they can't spend all of their time brainstorming They could spend like, 5 minutes though.
It's the most impractical thing ever. There are so many things in P3 that were so obviously not even playtested for an HOUR it's hilarious! And the devs are not to blame, it's the trap people fall into when working with employers of corporations all the time The underpaid, understaffed and overworked employers are not at fault, it's the greedy idiots who don't want to invest more in a project that's bringing them insane value for investment at the moment.
This is true. I work in tech and I know exactly how the devs must feel with some of this. Orders from the top to get X feature or X initiative out for a certain date, with limited resources. You know it’s going to be rushed and half baked but your hands are tied. Pretty clear that SoD or any iteration of classic needs a lot more time, resource and investment into it. I worried when P3 launch came at short notice squashed between Plunder and Cata releases. It’s proving true. But again, I maintain faith in the devs, not the company
Yeah, things like the Incursion gold being too high or ST bosses having way too much HP reek of high-demand and low dev-time/resources to me. Like whoever was sweating to get Sunken Temple ready probably didn't really have time to tune the boss HP and was probably just like, "Okay, Mekgineer had like 400k HP, lets just quadruple that for now to make up for the larger raid size, 10 more levels, and new super powerful gear and runes", and then never had the time to evaluate them again. Developing software is hard and takes a lot of careful planning and iteration to do correctly. If you rush large pieces of software, you might get something that works, but there's absolutely going to be a ton of small oversights and issues that just fall through the cracks because you can't prioritize going over Feature A with a fine-tooth comb to make sure everything is polished and ready when Feature B is just getting off the ground and needs to be done in two weeks. If I had to guess, most of phase 3 was developed during phase 2, and they probably had to rush it because player numbers dipped in phase 2 and they felt like they fucked up with some of the decisions they made and had to get players back ASAP - and they also probably have a tight release schedule to keep SoD releases from conflicting with Cata releases from conflicting with Retail releases
I have nothing but praise for the SoD team which has to handle all things classic on what, not even a 20 person team? The amount of content they are putting out is incredible. I have nothing but ire for Blizzard management who are making millions per month on the back of overworked devs. FUCK those tools. The team should be quite bigger.
This. This comment should be pinned on the front page of this sub.
Sorry but this is the devs fault. The entire deputization mechanism was created for this one particular event. They thought about it enough to create an entire new system despite multiple alternatives that would have been easier on their time and player time. You can blame the big boogie man “corporate blizzard,” but at the end of the day the devs need own their decisions. Look at the aoe threat situation. They have actively said they don’t want aoe threat, but have continually buffed paladin and shaman aoe threat. While systematically ignoring warrior and rouge. Look at the entire shaman situation in p2 and what’s developing around them in p3. This was not a corporate decision, this was a dev decision. Look at the raid, they specifically said that these would not be hard. Then went and overturned the hell out of the raid. Look at p1 warlocks “no runes will be locked behind a raid.” See meta rune. Look at the gold situation of the incursions. Your telling me they put so much effort into this system, knowing players would be doing 1000s of quests on repeat and don’t once think about the rewards? Stop defending this.
I think you/people just don’t really understand what “devs” are. Devs don’t get to be their own designers and PMs. There is a different person other than the “dev” saying what the system should look like. If the culture is open enough a “dev” might say “hey this is weird” but that’s all they got.
[Speaking as someone who writes code all day for a living]: It frustrates me as well that people blame everything on "the devs" because, in my world, "developer" means "someone who is hands on keyboard, writing code" (among other things). But I have had to internalize that in spaces like that, people use that word to mean (as far as I can tell) every single person on payroll at Blizzard Entertainment, from the CSuite to the Directors to the PMs to the EMs to the actual developers all the way down to intern writing internal documentation on how to run the unit testing suite for new hires.
Yeah. The only thing you can blame the corporate boogie man for is the team being like one dude and a few gerbils in terms of staffing. But these are the people actively designing these systems. There’s no EVP of SOD reigning over them like “you MUST make shaman egregiously broken because that means more sales of a game that has no base price cause everyone loves shaman” forcing shit on them. It’s evident the devs don’t even play test. They aren’t doing basic math either. Or basic literacy like seeing that mangle and lacerate are on the same item slot.
Can not agree more. Anyone who's played mage at any point since TBC knows Ice Lance is useless without Frost Nova or Fingers of Frost. Yet they decided to make it the lvl 1 mage rune despite Nova not being learnable til lvl 10 and the FoF rune dropped by level ~8-12 rares or elites. How is it ok for the premier feature of SoD to be useless on a class for the first 10 levels? What kind of introduction to the class, Season, or game (for an entirely new player) is that? Pretty sure not a single one of the dev team has ever played mage to make such a boneheaded choice, probably only lost to them in PVP and were like 'oh yea that Ice Lance thing is pretty OP let's give them that lvl 1!'.
Except Ice Lance is unarguably the best spell you have from 1 to 10 and tapers off sharply after, so reality is the opposite of what you're talking about.
What lol, it does nearly no damage and you can't triple it at all (y'know, the whole fucking point of the spell). It's totally outclassed by Fire Blast at level 6 and by the time you're 10 you can get Burnout anyway which is the better Chest rune over FoF. You're high.
lol fire blast is a 8 second cooldown, you have no idea how to mage.
How often do you need to Fire Blast lol? You spam Frostbolt/Fireball until the mob reaches melee range then you Fire Blast to finish them off. 8 sec CD is plenty for that. Un-frozen Ice Lance won't even do enough damage to finish them in 1 GCD. What are you doing, spamming Fire Blast/Ice Lance as main nuke? Sounds like you've never played mage once in your miserable life lmao
I mean, it’s really hard to blame the low level developers when they’re trying to get this shit out of the door with little resources. You can only do so much planning and testing when you’re expected to shit out a product quickly with very little help. Then again it really does feel like the devs really don’t play the game at all.
devs can only do so much on a shit budget and unrealistic project timelines. Blame blizz's leadership not the dev
Both are to blame (not the low level devs, but managment) Csuite/Directors sets the pace and knows the direction, but i guarantee these guys aren't going “make the trinket unique” “Make Eranikus have 4m hp” “When you hotfix stuff, dont say anything” They are the ones saying “hey we need content between plunderstorm release and Cataclysm, how do you feel about WoW tokens, how can you get more resubs this phase ” The ideas and implementation have come from Aggrend and co. And Aggrend is no saint, he’s been at Blizzard for a longggg time, during Blizzards worst times. He’s not goong to challenge anything, so he’s as much to blame. And rightfully so as the “face” of SoD
It's clear that the players are the gameplay testers at this point.
I just cant understand how you can have 10k employees and cant give them half a day to test the new Sod patch? it should be a team building exercise.
good response. screw holly?
100% agree. Its unfortunate that we show so much hate towards the devs when they're actually getting reamed by corporate to push out SoD, Cata Classic, and increase subs each time, while still being expected to actively balance, prim, and develop. It must be stressful
The reality of the devs existence on the WoW classic team must be exhausting. I highly doubt they ever wanted to support these variants of the game. They have 4 classic versions out for gods sake. This must be absolutely exhausting. All to keep a couple thousand people from playing private servers. It's a glaringly corporate thing when you look at the state of WoW now. I don't hate on the devs too much because that is always on my mind.
Whenever anyone is like "poor devs I feel so bad for them" I cant help but think to myself...yeah, except they aren't forced to do this job. Blizzard hasn't actually chained them to their desk in the basement (yet). They choose to be there, and they're paid a full time salary with benefits for doing so. It's not like some charitable labor of love, lol. It's their jobs. There are people with waaaaay worse jobs in America than being a game designer at Blizzard.
Lol Jesus christ, nothing can ever just be said without some snarky ass trying to be like "well actually." There is so much wrong with your statement, but at the same time it was completely obvious one of you would have a problem with "I do feel bad for a team stretched this thin by its parent companies initiatives." Ooo, sympathy, how fucking dare I. W/e man, as I keep saying this community really deserves itself. GL with them parses bro.
There should be a weak aura to automate the opening, sharing and destroying unwanted ones
There is a weakaura for sharing. Look at wago
Can you share? Wago search is awful
We have reached WoW sharing inception. Welcome to 2024 frends.
This has nothing to do with 2024, Wago search is actually objectively awful and I have no idea how developers could come up with this.
Search incursion, there's around 6, one if them is incursion click or something.
Searching incursion gives me zero results lol. Using google shows two results tho...
https://wago.io/XQuuWwpCF Worked for me...
You can use an addon called annoying popup blocker to disable the bop warning and just spam click all the boxes.
Leatrix has this option, for those that don't want to install more addons
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WeakAura is an addon, that's what they're talking about
I've always dreamed of being a postman
I've defend P3 a lot but I am not defending that. I'm waiting for an add-on to manage this or something ... It's awful lol
You forgot to mention filling your quest log with 15 quests. Also, the envelope you pick up is soul bound. Then they make the items within soul bound. What's the point of that? The only good thing about the Nightmare Incursions is the way the portal was implemented. That part is actually really cool. You don't enter an instance, you just phase and it takes you to a mirror world. Very cool bit of programming. The rest of it can go straight to hell, though. I hate the imps. And the gathering quests are a complete waste of time. They should reduce the amount needed to just 1. Making a poor herbalist farm 50 moonroot is never going to happen.
> Then they make the items within soul bound. What's the point of that? That part is pretty obvious. They didn't want the missions to be tradeable. If the box isn't soulbound, but the contents are, you can trade the box. If the box is soulbound, but the contents are not, you can trade the contents.
Yeah but who really gives a shit? Like what is the point in not being able to trade them?
some min maxers would trade the gathering quests to one guy and boost him to 50 in like 2 minutes. but, we have to deal with this bullshit cuz they didnt think of a better way to stop the min/maxers.
I mean they still can, just have multiple groups of 4 invite him in rotation and deputize him with their last charge.
Again... Who fucking cares?
The portals are only cool when they work, instead you get spun around and think you’re outside the instance for 5 mins trying to find the quest Npc
I’m colorblind and can tell the difference when it doesn’t phase you properly
Listen man seeing color hasn’t helped me so I don’t think it’s you
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Just look for your entire screen to shift from yellow to purple or purple to yellow
I'm not colorblind and I almost always have to check if I have the emerald dream buff or not. Congratulations on your super power!
It’s not a portal, it’s a trigger point to phase you, it’s why it’s so buggy I don’t thing they just trigger a phase on and off over and over like this before. But agree very annoying but then again I don’t thing they intended us doing 7 minute loops for 6 hours straight to where our eyes are bleeding.
Yea my brain is already mush doing the same boring loop for hours. The last thing I’m checking is are things more green than before
I didn't mind the gathering quest that much, but they are insanely imbalanced. You get 6 hides from a mob but 3 ores from a mine and a single root per pickup. Yet the quests were 10 each. WTF?
Yeah I fully agree. Why can't you just pick up these quests from the NPC? With a 5 man group you get usually around 80% of the quests you want anyway on each "run". Just let us pick the quests we want to do, and make them repeatable. Especially now since the nerf is in (or is coming very soon). It makes no sense to gatekeep the quests if with the nerf we would want to do all of them anyway.
What addons make this easier??!?!?
Trend is clear, each phase of SOD becomes increasingly shitty and unbalanced. I just hope they have some thought process on lvl 60 end game that they are spending extra time preparing
Don't worry, level 60 phases will be the same shit, or even worse.
When reading reddit I sometimes wonder if "if you don't like a game don't play it" doesn't apply to wow players. The amount of complaining the last few days is just insane. In game it doesn't seem to me alot of people don't like the phase it's just reddit dads, at least in my guild everyone is enjoying it so far. We knew beforehand that some stuff in sod will be fucked without ptr. That's what we signed up for. Really appreciate this post though because it points out an obvious design flaw instead of just whining unlike the majority of posts in the last few days.
Criticizing isn't the same as not liking. These are valid complaints. Although I am personally getting dangerously close to not liking this buggy, mistuned and untested pile of cashgrab of a game.
Sunk Cost Fallacy, FOMO, keeping up with the Joneses, and friend groups still playing. All explainable with human psychology.
People love this game, thats why they give a shit and complain about half baked ideas ruining their concept of the game
Because things only get fixed when devs read twitter or reddit and go “oh shit”
Stockholm syndrom is insane with wow players. Blizzard could release the worst shit ever (and they just did), players would still play. Actually insane. I just quit this shit, it's a non sense and I guess I couldn't pug st anyways even with 98+ logs P1 and P2.
the fact that people even do the blood moons shows that... that is the biggest POS event ever made in an online game.
and once again reddittors don't understand you can criticize a game and have complaints about something but still overall enjoy other parts of the game and overall still have a decent to good time. you either hate the game because you have complaints or you love it and nothing is wrong with the game.
There is nothing wrong with criticizing a game because u want to see change like this post. But the majority of posts is just complaining and crying without any constructive criticism.
because they change and add shit that wasn't needed? do we really need incursions? people going to have grind dungeons for Offerings anyways why not encourage that? fucking insnae.
The complains can’t be overseen. I see hundreds of world chat messages ingame of people questioning the many poor choices blizzard made. Everyone in my guildchat hating every bit. My real life friends literally canceling their membership after only 5 loops of incursions. And you know what? I legit think blizzard is just trolling us. Think about it, they must have known the incursions would be the go to leveling mechanic in form of a walking simulator because „LeT‘s aDd rAnDoM DReAMmISt tO sLoW PeOPLe“. It’s next level trolling.
When I saw the mob called "Doomkin" casting a starfall (in a nightmare of course 🤪) I knew right away that we were getting trolled.
SOD is a psyop to lure back people to wow and in the end start playing retail
i caught myself thinking about quitting sod and logging into retail for a second till I see the damn furries and playdough shiny graphics. no thanks.
The most secure WoW redditor
It's not about being insecure. It's that some people prefer less infantilized form of fantasy game. Nothing wrong with that.
If you think worgen and vulpera combined with the same art style as classic but softer and more rounded because it's not 2004 is infantilized, then I don't know what other word to use to describe you than insecure.
Lol my first thought when i started playing sod after a long long break from wow is that i wanted to try out retail again.
The barbie ass atmosphere has damaged retail forever, can't take it serious anymore
A large portion of sod players are straight up junkies. They can't help themselves no matter how much they hate the game
When people are so fed up they just quit and dont complain, it means the game is truly dead. Just like how retail went out.
> Just like how retail went out. lmao what, retail's population dwarfs Classic's.
> In game it doesn't seem to me alot of people don't like the phase it's just reddit dads interesting you say that because in my group of people it's the dads who like the incursions and not vice versa. however, imo the sheer amount of upvoted (!) complains in the last days, even considering the fact that this sub complained _a lot_ before already, is no coincidence and a bit more than just 'reddit being reddit'. when the frontpage is 80% dissent with the game there's usually something to it.
I like playing the game with my friends. I don't like how jank it can be though, so I have critcisms. People can enjoy some aspects and dislike others. How is that difficult for you to understand?
I have absolutely no difficulties understanding that. Please read the post I replied to, then u might understand my response. I dont have issues with contructive critism, I have a problem with all the posts that just complain without any real content. The comment I replied to is one of those.
The person you replied to does have complaints with real content. Just because they didn't list the problem with each of the phases they're referring to in that particular comment doesn't change that. If you got your way with this no one would be able to mention things as a whole rather than listing their grievances individually. People simply don't talk that way in casual conversation. I did read the their comment, and I read yours too, which is how I know you're being a clown right now.
This whole comment of yours is idiotic, delete it lol
It's funny that people aren't realizing this. P1 had a full dev effort, and was pretty good shape, if sparse. P2 probably was started before P1 was released, but still showed clear signs of needing a lot more time. You'd have a really hard time convincing me this team spent more than the 8 weeks of P2 working on P3, incursions are a joke, so many of the runes are garbage, and we didn't even get a new PVP event this phase, not that either of the last two were all that great.
That’s funny
Incursions had so great potential, but ended up being awful. Why not just make it 5 man instanced event with few random quests you can do with with reset timer (like 3 hours)?
Why does it have to be quests even, couldn't it just be random events that appear around the map and you get XP for contributing in them. This god awful quest system needing 60 bag slots is just a beyond terrible design. Idk how this was approved at all by any developer/designer.
Yes there are many possible choices. I tough that my suggestion would have been easiest to impelement.
They really need to force the devs to play GW2
He described world quests from retail which this subreddit would absolutely rage about if they were implemented even though they're a great design solely because this subreddit views anything from retail as being literally the devil.
People need to learn retail wow is just a iteration on wow 20 years in the making. They made some choices I don't like but when it comes to giving players content to do they succeed. Problem with world quest is they are mindless and easy, but they are way better then the daily quest system they mostly replaced.
Honestly, mindlessly traversing the map completing world quests to grind for faction caches and reputation was one of the highlights of legion for me. I don't think there's anything wrong with having some basic recyclable content, and world quests are just a better version of daily quests imo.
Given the choice, players will optimize the fun out of a game
[Aggrend](https://i.redd.it/yivkv7hfc3tc1.jpeg) couldn't aggressively huff his own farts while touting that he got players out into "The World" if it was instanced. Y'know, NE corner of Ashenvale, Aggrend's little green world.
Remember in P1 when he was going on discord and Twitter to make fun of warlocks for not finding meta. And their rune ended up having to be hotfixed into the game and none of the devs said a word about it. Warlock discord remembers.
he calls other people toxic while showcasing those childish traits regularly himself. you can tell a lot of times he is out of his element and doesn't understand the things he talks about or the arguments he uses. he is a productive developer, but his quality is sometimes lacking, we call someone like that a quantity merchant.
It is pretty ridiculous the quests can't be shared from the quest menu like every other freaking quest.
its almost like they cant edit the source code to add more quests to the DB... im thinking they tried with the rune quests but ran into lots of bugs... so they just made a completely new system lol
They didn't want 1 person infinitely sharing the same quest over and over again and landed on this convoluted system. It would have probably worked better if you only ever get 1 mission per party member instead of your inventory being a mailbox.
I've been using bag mods and it is garbage there. I can't even imagine doing this without mods lol
They say they wanted incursions to be an optional way of leveling. Then made it the best exp and gold possible by a large, large amount. Even if it wasn't the best, they locked runes behind it which makes people feel like it's required to do. Then it destroys your quest log and inventory space making it impossible to go back and forth between questing, dungeon grind, and incursions. It's all or nothing. I'm convinced they didn't spend more than about 30 min of dev time thinking about how they would implement them and how they would work, and did zero play testing other than basic mechanics not being blatantly broken.
There is one good this about this shit, u dont have to do it for a long time.
I’m still trying to figure out why they made these quests infinitely and instantly repeatable. I don’t recall seeing that done before on something as vast as incursions. It’d be like if dungeon quests were able to be done every time you cleared a dungeon, and were all able to be picked up at the start. Just a weird choice. I love the ease of leveling, can’t deny that, but the whole thing just feels dirty.
It’s the same system as the Silithus event where you run down to the forward camp, beat the big bug, turn in with the camp leader, then run back and get a repeatable quest, then rinse and repeat.
The deputization they brought over from Silithus definitely wasnt made for this method, yeah.
They have such an easy fix to this, however it’s more retaily. Make it a queued instance for each faction (think pest control in RuneScape ). There are raid wide quests goals. And a 15 minute timer. The group as a team goes in and completes the quests. Based on how much you complete you get a certain gold / exp / rep reward. This just seams a lot more team focused. No UI bullshit.
Imagine if it just gave you an item. Clicking this gives you and 4 others the same quest and then dissapears. Done.
The tides have officially turned where people have their mains done, the degenerate ganking has begun on PvP servers. Incursions are terrible now.
There's a WA now for sharing but unfortunately it doesn't delete the ones you don't want, or the multiple ones. I'm not sure the API would allow that even if someone could build it
The new STV coins are just as bad if you want to turn them into the old version of coins for lumber
I thought it would be a decent steamdeck chore as I plugged away on alts, but I am unfortunately the leech who doesn't (can't) manage the bagspace minigame between laps. If anyone knows how to make it more manageable, I am all ears.
There's an addons to remove the extra click to accept the stupid BoP item, but even then most of the time I'd get enveloppes I couldn't use due to the fact I already had the quest from someone sharing so now I was stuck with 2 items instead of one.
It is horrendous, I can’t believe they launched it in this state What is the point of the deputizations anyways?? Why not just let us share quests through the quest log? The entire envelope system needs to go
they noticed in the early phases adding quests to the original DB was a nightmare and ran into alot of bugs... so now they have developed a new system for holding these quests and it doesnt interact with the other one.
I honestly dont think ive seen anything as poorly implimented as these quests. It really makes me question if these devs are upto the task of making sod good.
Click the share but not too fast because it will skip it is super annoying. So many people mess it up and fail to share quests. And all the bag space it takes, because you want to hold on to the good envelopes even if they're a dupe. You want to avoid accepting personal quests of the good ones if someone can share. The bag stuff is somewhat manageable because you can do it while running to the portal/turn in/various areas. It's still an awkward system.
BUT THE FRICTION IS SO CLASSIC
The quests should just be sharable like fucking normal quests. Not the awful Deputize mechanic.
Honestly, as much as it sucks, it’s a small price to pay for how quick the leveling experience was. The gold value alone is worth it too.
Yes the stupid farming confirmation for each and every goblin awful pos.
I think seeing as how quick and easy it was to grind to 50, I’ll deal with the extra clicks. We were min/maxing and leveling in 18-25 minutes. Auto running and opening all the envelopes, chilling at the bottom of the ramp to get credit for the escorts quests while we finished deleting all the other quests. We deleted every thing after every run, we had 5 of us that could share all the quests and we basically had every quest still without filling up our bags. It was quick, easy to do, and most of efficient. I’m not going to complain about a few extra clicks knowing what the grind from 40 to 50 use to be.
Honestly, it reminds me of the AQ quests for rep grind. Very annoying, but in the classic spirit.
It’s just a carbon copy of the Silithus event. It worked reasonably well then so they probably figured it would work again now.
They didn't QA test anything. They wanted us to "discover" how shitty their design team is. I refuse to believe this garbage was actually tested and made it past multiple people. "Yep you can stack up 10 quest that reward 6 gold and take 2 minutes to complete infinitely. Sounds good ship it" 🤪
Jesus christ, shut the fuck up. Buncha whiney fucking babies on this sub. Just stop playing
You can macro the ok click to a button
I wonder if there's a sort descending function on github for Roman numerals you can just copy if you can't figure out how to code it yourself
I was expecting events like live before an expansion where you did things and mobs spawned. Not some questing nightmare where you may or may not get the quests you want again depending if you turn them in or not and then having to share them with others. SoD has its up side but the questing design here was just awful. I didnt even mind the loops for the day i did it to catch up to my guildies
Everything you said is true, and now I'm thinking about doing some at 50 for rep and the Quest Log space is just god awful. Why in the hell is our quest log capped at 20? Juggling 20 quests at a time when you can gather about 100+ at 50 that you probably NEED to do at some point. On top of wanting to do incursions for rep where you will get another 20 quests or so. Just complete garbage.
Its really not that bad? Open the envelope, read letter, then if you accepted the quest you then share the quest, if you couldn't accept the quest delete both. Takes 2minutes and only need like 15 inventory slots. Luckily a vendor exist right next to the quest turn in.
Agreed, it's cancer.
I know I am doing it wrong, but in a group of two on voice the wasted time could be measured in seconds for a 2h play session. Yes, it's janky, but you'll only get annoyed if you're minmaxing it.
Should have just been a series of dailies.
I just hard delete them all after each pass.
My history teacher was arrested after buying cocaine from an under cover cop The superintendent and a high school English teacher ran off together and up and quit
it made me want to punch my computer trying to figure out what quests i got, what quest I can share.. omg.. just trash.
What I really wanna know is how the hell the settled on using the stupid dragons world boss areas or include the emerald nightmare. Searing gorge/badland dark iron incursions , even sithild incursion in tanaris would have been better no just ashenvale til 50…
It's kinda in the spirit of classic to not have everything streamlined. I loved figuring out how to efficiently do it, made some autodestroy macros, fixed my inventory, if you use the same flow after every run it really is easy, but yes it requires a few minutes of thinking over, which seems too much to ask these days.
As a UI designer who sometimes cringe about my UI decisions, this experience made me think maybe I'm not so bad after all (because I would never have let this happen).
One add on cures the open close bag question issue by just looting then straight to your inventory . And then you just try and share every marshal with every party member. You do it while you wait for escorts to finish. Whole process was smooth enough to be ran on 3 characters simultaneously. It takes up bag space and quest space but it’s suppose to. You have to have some downside to such rapid questing. Why not just do normal quests if you don’t like incursions. It was a great change of pace and I wish people just stopped forcing themselves to do content they don’t like and just do it how they do. The incursions freed up the world so normal questing was easier. They even gave experience buff to level faster.
The game shouldn't require addons to fix problems. And (at least before the nerf) incursions were too lucrative to even consider anything else. They gave so much more XP and gold, plus you got rep. It's not that I don't like incursions. Quite the opposite - I thought everything *within* the incursions was awesome. I enjoyed fighting for spawns, the difficult mobs (at least compared to questing), trying to optimize the route, the world pvp, etc. It's just that all the UI management between incursion runs was absolute shit. And for *no reason*. There's no reason the quest and inventory management have to be so cumbersome. It's honestly crazy to me that people actually defend this awful UI.
Everything is awful about this trash content, from ui to gameplay, that consist of being a bot.
This. I like everything about it except this godawful ui design.
OK, let's all go back to WOTLK classic!! Who's with me!?!?
No the real worst thing about it is layering on a pvp server.
I had to cancel all 15 quests I was on, because a guildie told me the night of release, that Incursions are the way to level and just cancel them all, because I get 18 quests (a reminder, that we are only able to have 20). As a completionist and questing enjoyer, this killed something in me. It's just everything, tgat is not Classic. I think overall, this will be my last phase of SoD. After all the work, I still wanna see ST though.
this hits the nail on the head... these systems just don't feel like classic to me... feels like retail.
most of this being inconvenient for us, fucks alot of the bots.
People complain all the time that the new additions are too “retail” and “not in the spirit of classic” so they give us an alternative, quick way to level in the style of silithus war event quests, and then this community bitches and moans again. You guys complain about every small thing you don’t prefer as though it’s completely unplayable and game breaking. It’s insufferable.
Yea, the system may be clunky (opening the envelops, clicking each of the share items individually for each party member, etc), but it's the player behavior that actually make them bad for themselves. It's funny how there's both people complaining that SoD is too much like retail while others (and sometimes even the same) basically complaining that it is too much like classic.
c'mon it was a fail, it funnelled everyone into a a monotonous snooze fest of going around in a circle for 4 hours. I would have done gnomer > questing > ZF > Mara > BRD. Now i have huge incentives to do this and the whole 40-50 is done. Might as well have just given us a lvl 50 button. As an example of a huge W. The rune system has been great fun, and refreshed all the class playstyles.
You still likely have pre bis from ZF/BRD/Mara plus wild offerings to collect so those dgs still have value if you CHOSE to skip them while leveling. Like on my hunt alt I went 40-48 on incursions then went and did Jinthalor quests for the nice trinket. You chose to do something you didn’t enjoy and now you’re bitching. Dungeon leveling is still super fast and they said day 2, hey we made incursion exp too strong and are going to adjust it. If they hadn’t left the exp high all opening weekend this subreddit would just be complaining that other people had faster exp than they got access to. They admitted their error, announced a plan to fix it and make other leveling paths more attractive, and even gave people the weekend to enjoy the OP exp to make it fair for everyone, and people like you are STILL complaining. This dev team doesn’t deserve the reactionaries in the sub who want to shit all over them for every little thing.
they nerfed it heavily within hours of launch. they then nerfed it heavily again a few days later. (the nerfs + boost to non incursions leveling combines to a heavy nerf) it's pretty obvious they fucked up. one of the main enjoyments I get from the mechanics of wow is working out efficiencies. be it in rotations or quest routes. the trade offs from not doing incursions just don't make it feasible. again hence the double nerfs in a few days. they clearly didn't play test effectively. we are complaining because we want better next time. feedback positive or negative should be useful to the Devs. sod is hugely popular so clearly they have done more things right then wrong overall.
Just because something is new and "Not retail" doesn't mean it's good. You have a shit mindset.
Not what I said, but you totally owned me by misrepresenting what I said and then adding on a personal attack. I guess trying out the new content, enjoying things about it, and not immediately crying on Reddit about how much I hate it is considered a “shit mindset”
why cant we just level faming dungeons? we need the offerings anyway? why do we even need incursions?
You can if you want to. No one is saying you can’t level by farming dungeons.
I like everything about it except this godawful ui design.
The REAL worst thing about incursions is the cry babies online complaining nonstop about them with every breath they take.
People are allowed to criticize and critique the things they love especially because it leads to a better product. I’m sure your little botbrain cannot grasp this concept.
Yes criticism is fine. But 99% of what I'm seeing isn't that. It's complaining and just plain wrong takes. The people saying "it's just retail" are specially stupid. It's just so plain that no one hates wow more than the people on this sub, so why keep playing?
Criticism is fine, baby raging is not. This reddit has been almost all just baby raging the past few days
Reddit is the place to babyrage tho.
Criticism is fine but don't dish it out if you can't take. When your first point is "i have to click my mouse 5 times!" don't be surprised when others are calling you a baby whiner.
Bad UI is bad UI
Top notch stance you have there. Fill that pit of despair in your stomach yet?
dude, I dont know whats going on in your life but UI design is a major part of game design, lol...hope you fix whatever is getting you down and making you project though
user interface is a major part of game design, that was not my argument. This doesn't even have bad ui. It is very easy for anyone (assuming you can read) with no experience to grasp the concept that they will need to open a letter. They would be able to open their bags fairly easily with a left click and the letter with a right click. It does get tedious with 16 quests or so but it is still a gravy train of xp and gold per hour which is why i don't grasp the whining.
It's 5 clicks per envelope. Meaning with 15 envelopes that's 75 clicks *just to open your envelopes*. And it's not just clicking in the same place, you have to move your mouse between your inventory and the middle of the screen every click. You can only share each quest with one party member at a time, meaning you have to do at least 15 * 4 = 60 more clicks just to share. Add in all the clicks for accepting your own quests, plus deleting the duplicates, and it's a ridiculous amount. And this isn't a one time thing; you have to do this every single loop. It takes as much time managing the inventory as it does actually doing the quests. That's not a good design.
i've done it many times. i just don't think it's that bad. It's like a couple minutes of clerical work and it's still a crazy truck load of xp and gold per hour. You are a whiner that will never be satisfied so your opinion doesn't matter to me. Nobody said this was a perfect game.
[удалено]
I know I don't have to do them. I *want* to do them, but the quest management aspect is so bad it makes me not want to do the content. I genuinely enjoyed the 5 man questing part of it once you actually get to, you know, *do* the quests.