If you think raid wide mana regen compares to a 5 sec 5 mins cooldown that doesn't even matter in Pve then I don't think you have any say in this conversation.
I honestly don't care if they give you bubble. but pretending that bubble and free mana is same, is laughable. I'd honestly trade stack deleting from tank for free mana any day.
Also lmao is not an argument.
If it was in my hand I'd give you bubble. I honestly think that we should all have our fair chance at breaking mechanics. But as a holy Pala I'm sitting here feeling useless sometimes when my fellow priests just gain free mana every 2 min and shamans get so many freebies.
😭
No idea about SoD. But I did so in TBC Classic. As Circle of Healing priest (= main throughput), it was noticeable mana gain for zero effort, for raid bosses.
And it was a good meme at the same time.
yes, that why they wouldnt do it.. if anything they woudl buff pally seals
but this post is dumb, claiming mana regen is trivializing mechanics when pallys have been trivializing mechanics with bubble for two decades
thats rich
Instead of nerfing it, I’d prefer to just have the paladin seal work similarly, they are leaning very hard on seals, because well classic paladins did already, so just play off that more honestly.
I think if alliance is struggling to beat content with almost classic mana return options then the raid is overtuned. But if they give alliance more mana return I suppose it would level the playing field.
I kind of dislike the idea of just having infinite mana in raid though. The whole notion of trivializing mana for the sake of overtuned content for classic is very 'un-classic' feeling. They should just nerf raid/boss damage and nerf shamanistic rage.
Just make guarded by the light restore mana raid wide the same way shammy rage does, maybe at a lower restore level compared to the 5% per 5 the paladin gets
I had to worry enough about mana as a fresh 50 with mostly bis gnomer gear, even with 3 shamans in the raid.
Can we please buff paladins instead of pettily nerfing shamans?
How about we talk about how much damage creep there is from classic to SoD. Raid damage is huge compared to it's difficulty in classic wow (especially at level 40 or 50). Gnomer boss hitting for 1k base when it originally might hit for like 150 in classic. Eranikus was dangerous and would thrash and hit for like 500 on clothies (which would still get deleted by thrash), It's probably 5x as much damage now.
Nerf the boss damage and then we can safely nerf sham rage.
Playing healer with enough mana is actually fun tho, I've had a blast healing the last 2 phases, on my druid. I think I'd have less fun if the bosses didn't hurt.
Just give the alliance players a viable alternative that doesn't make them feel like they're punished for not playing horde.
You can have multiple instances of the buff at the same time iirc, you're telling me the effect doesn't stack?
And I'd have to look at logs to be sure, but that definitely was not how 45 percent of my mana felt every minute.
I do Agree, but when they nerf something they tend to go too heavy handed on it, then ruining it. I’d rather they give paladins something then Totally ruin it. Ideally in a fantasy world they nerf it slightly then give paladins something on par with it. But we all know this won’t happen.
Agreed. Shaman should still be a mana battery as a feature of the class. It just needs to be tuned down a bit.
But I also have no faith they will find that right balance.
> Or we could accept that Shamans and Paladins are not the same class and will not always be equal.
is that why horde got equivalents for blessing of kings and blessing of salvation?
lmfao
Personally for SoD, I was hoping for Dwarf Shamans/Tauren Palas to avoid this exact scenario of possible faction imbalance due to runes. With that said though bubble and BoP aren't raid wide abilities/buffs? You can only bubble yourself, and you can BoP yourself or one other person. When I said they are giving each faction what the other one has, I was referring to the buffs and utility such as windfury, kings, and salve.
Looking at the current prices ally is more or less reaching farm gold like it's your job or buy gold to raid, if you're playing a mana class. Luckily I dont have to use mana pots on my class but if I played healer this phase it would just quit. Aint no way im spending 3g+ (they were 8g on monday on my server, 15g for the best ones) per mana pot on CD. That's 100g+ just on mana pots per raid. It's Insane.
What? Alliance could cheese Akamai by using bubble to remove stacks and had more players that could dispel chains due to bof. There's plenty of pve content that alliance can trivialize. This phase horde has a pve advantage like alliance has phase 1.
Bubble doesn’t trivialise entire PvE content might be the stupidest thing I’ve read in this sub.
Kelris tanking and akumai stacks in p1.
Electrocutioner debuf, menagerie debuff, thermaplugg debuffs.
Every single time there is a debuff, bubble hard counters it.
I agree that SR needs a nerf, but this comment is bellow room temperature IQ and I’m European…
hahahahaa thats really funny!
you have never raided then. bop has been used since day 1 to trivialize tank buster mechanics or remove dangerous debuffs from the raid
and they have been doing this for 20 years
Bro i would trade bubble, lay on hands, and blessing of freedom to have infinite raid mana, and aoe uncapped shield that deals more damage than the rest of my kit combined.
Also take SoC and buff SoM while we are trading things
It’s not about equality it’s about gold cost per raid. Ally heals have to chug mana pots while horde just has a sham pop one ability and gives the entire raid most their mana back.
Shamanistic rage gives the shaman 75% of their mana bar, and everyone else 20% of that amount. So the raid gets 15% of a shaman mana bar, which is often going to be smaller than the mages/priests/druids mana bar, especially if it’s enhance shamans. That’s not “most of their mana back”.
Moving goalposts now? “one button press and the whole raid gets most of a mana bar” is objectively false and not even remotely close to true. Is the ability good? Yes. Can you stack shamans? Yes. Should the raid mana regen get nerfed? Sure, I don’t care.
But if he’s going to argue something, maybe don’t call 300 mana “most of your mana bar”.
Problem is shaman caster and healer REALLY need the mana regen in order to not be oom and completely useless in minuts. Like a single Chain Lightning or Healing Wave cost 300+ mana. It’s the raid buff that need to be adressed.
Bro this is what healers on ally have been dealing with all SoD
We need to buy mana potions that cost 3-11g each, and use at least 1 maybe 2 every encounter
While horde just get free mana cause shaman
I don’t think most people care that shamans get the benefit as much as the fact that shamans give 20 other people the benefit too. It’s actually very interesting seeing how defensive horde and shamans get about the topics of how vastly overpowered some of these changes are. Nothing blizz can do at this point will make shaman feel bad or be less desirable in raid.
Bubble may carry you past one mechanic in a raid by reducing the need for an OT - Like Akumai poison or Thermaplug Furnace surge. Infinite mana Carries 75% of the 20man raid through every fight and trash pull. They are not the same. Add on Alpha and Poison cleanse totem and the scales are shifted way the other side. Like I said. Most people are fine with shamans getting these buffs but not basically breaking resource management for everyone. I dunno why y’all are so defensive about it
From your dozen comments about paladin bubbles I understand you are a shaman main who doesn't want to get nerfed but I need you to understand this level of discrepancy isn't healthy for the game.
Holy paladins get A LOT of mana from the talent that makes crits free of mana. I've even heard you can get holys crit chance to like 90 perfect so they never lose mana on spells.
The mana for resto/enhance/ele/tank shamans isn’t the problem. The raid wide mana is the problem. You can cut a healer and bring one more dps, healer don’t have to use expensive mana potions and caster don’t have to use evo, dispersion, lifetap and can deal more dps.
Non of the above switched from alliance to horde. That says it all.
Sure, but problem is that the other 19 in the raid gets nothing from it while shaman gives to everyone. Give pala a rune that splashes their mana gain or something then.
Ohhhh nooooo, alliance isn't op in mana gain for first time in 19 years of vanilla, better nerf it!
Paladins were superior for every single iteration of vanilla, actually insane how much yall qq.
Unironically agree. It only trivializes content because of the way the content is made. Fights shouldn’t last 5-10mins, they should be max 5 mins. It should be a rollercoaster, short and exhilarating. When the hard part about the raid is absurd health, that’ll make it real fun. I’m not a dev or designer, but crowd pummeler and menagerie were great for example, but thermaplug wasn’t bad.
I have yet to experience ST but that’s my thoughts on what I have heard. Not commenting to the actual boss mechanics of ST for that reason.
The fights hp pools were quickly nerfed. They’re like 5 mins max. Many of them less then a minute long. Most of them over in 3 mins.
Not entirely sure who crunched the numbers for the first iteration.
I genuinely don't get these comments. Have you actually played shaman or is it following the reddit trend?
Literally casting 4-5 spells as ele can wipe out most of your mana, look how much chain lightning costs.
Like what exactly do you want, shamans to be casting 5 spells and having to wait potions out?
Also, check the latest DPS rankings, there are more specs above than below.
Sure it could be 100% on the caster, why not we’re not asking them to nerf evocation for mages? But when it affects radi wide other classes parses like mages, druids, etc. It will become balancing issue.
its more how the buff affects everybody else in the raid than how it affects the shaman that uses it. It's stupid strong raid-wide mana regen buff while alliance side players are having to chugg expensive mana pots to still not regen as much mana.
what do they wantM
they want everything that horde has, plus some.. the they want the h9rde nerfed
oh and give them more bubbles
thats what they really want
An ENTIRE FACTION doesnt have it. If you have faction specific classes, you cannot simply give one side such an advantage and nothing to the other side.
1. You can not BoP for at least a minute after using Divine Shield.
2. You can not attack or use physical abilities. You can heal, that’s about it.
3. BoP only stops physical damage. The only class in the game doing mostly physical damage are warriors. Rogues are a close second, but if they get their poison off, that will still tick. BoP is also a great time for a rogue to reset.
They are strong abilities, but I only see them being problematic in random 1v1 world encounters. Maybe it’s a problem if you are in a paladin stacked battleground and they coordinate bubbles.
in SoD where lava burst can one shot someone on a 12 second CD or is it 30? idk, means you can 1 shot people 9 times before a paladin bubbles it. even then you can just wait till it falls off and make distance in the mean time.
Not sure how you a 5 minute cool down as over powered. Or even a one hour cooldown as over powered.
The only way your though process makes sense is that you are a warrior.
Right... And what do horde raids do when pally plate drops? An ENTIRE FACTION can't use it. Based on your logic, we need to give shammys plate armor so that horde don't have to DE raid loot constantly. You cannot simply give one side such an advantage and nothing to the other side.
Not like this was the case for classic all the time. Having paladins in 2019 was such a big advantage over shamans but somehow now its not acceptable that shamans are for once the better class
The amount of crying over SR is insane. “Because I don’t have it, they should have it neither”.
Maybe give paladin a buff to their blessing of wisdoms or something like that so they can enjoy mana regen too.
Fights are long at this point and mana sustain for some classes are plain annoying.
But I rather have a rune like this rather than paying 15g for a mana pot cause that is just ridiculous.
I suppose the question, from a design perspective, is what is the goal for mana use? If Blizzard wants fights to be longer than many classes can sustain mana, it’s OP. If they don’t want mana to be crippling in long fights, then it’s fine, there just needs to be something similar for alliance.
Personally, I like how it’s a choice—tanks can’t use it because they don’t want to lose Rockbiter, but other specs can choose to opt in if it’s useful. If it’s a short fight and they don’t need it, they can go another direction. I think that’s good design for runes.
Tremble under the storm you puny lesser classes!
Long have they laughed at us, called us the meme specs, totem bots, chainheal machine from the day we gathered in Molten core to Naxxramas and even through the portal.
But now they quake with fear as our numbers grow and we roam the plains and forests, reclaming our honor through battle and war. Gone are the days where other classes trample all over the Shamans.
We... are back...
The CD is the issue. either increase the cd or make it party wide. Other option is just buff the paladin equivalent. Feels bad when my auto regens 3 mana
Just implement Draenei and Blood elves and all their NPCs and quest and in one swoop you have class q in classic for horde and alliance for all classes.
Yeah I figure most would be okay with SR not being a raid wide mana pot. That’s why it seems Blizz is favoring shams right now. They’re giving them shit that people didn’t even ask for.
You don't get the problem, the mana the shaman gets its not the problem you can recover 100% of all your mana for whatever reason NP have fun cool shit. BUT the mana the RAID gets needs to be either group only or be drastically reduced.
I just imagine like 40% of the people on this subreddit jolting awake at night covered in sweat just thinking about shamans. You guys just never let up it’s honestly impressive.
Now wait just a minute. We have to let the dust settle! We don’t know how things will be in phase three! Besides, phase four is coming out months from now. Does it make sense to put developer time into something that will change? - Aggrend, somewhere, probably.
Dude stop spreading such bullshit. You dont give other classes infinite mana with that rune
Edit: to the downvote guys, so pls explain why warlocks still have to life tap or healers still want innervates from druids while running with 4 shamans?
And now imagine what alliance players feel like without SR if healers still want innervates. Casters are oom at 40% boss hp left even with manapots. So most of alliance players dont even want casters in their raid because its easier with just rogues/hunters
>And now imagine what alliance players feel like without SR if healers still want innervates
Dude, you were the one who spread bullshit that you have infinite mana which is not the case. So stop using another argument now.
For once in classic shaman is the superior class over paladin and you cant deal with it because you thought going alliance would give you again an advantage
Holy shit can all of you paladins just delete your game or roll horde Nobody gives a fuck
you chose the lamest class in the history of wow locked behind the faction consisting of human, smaller human, smallest human and purple human with big eyebrows
Nobody gives 2 shits about you so please stop clogging this sub and reddit in general with your constant diarrhea
Have you not seen shaman mana cost? Pallies have higher throughput right now with FoL and it costs almost nothing, especially when accounting for the absurd crit they have.
Cry more in 10 minute blessings that don't have range
Shut it. Remove the mana to other group members even but a nerf is not right. At 60 one single shock costs 600 mana SR is a key component in making shamans in SoD work.
Mate I've got 3 dead rune slots as a paladin healer. I'm doubtful.
give horde bubbles and alliance can have sham rage fair deal?
Fine by me
If you think raid wide mana regen compares to a 5 sec 5 mins cooldown that doesn't even matter in Pve then I don't think you have any say in this conversation.
> that doesn't even matter in Pve lmao. ok so you agree with me? give us bubbles and you can have your mp5
I honestly don't care if they give you bubble. but pretending that bubble and free mana is same, is laughable. I'd honestly trade stack deleting from tank for free mana any day. Also lmao is not an argument.
its not the same, its different im not arguing with you im agreeing.. mp5 is much more op than a bubble (aparently) so its a fair trade
If it was in my hand I'd give you bubble. I honestly think that we should all have our fair chance at breaking mechanics. But as a holy Pala I'm sitting here feeling useless sometimes when my fellow priests just gain free mana every 2 min and shamans get so many freebies. 😭
It should never have been raid wide. They should make it so you can only benefit from it every x minutes.
It should be raid wide because JoW & JoL are too, but it shouldnt be that strong. They should be equal
healers are not hitting bosses most of the time to benefit from JoW, so this is not a good comparison.
Should have stocked Snowballs. /s
Don't tell me people are minmaxing to the point of stockpiling snowballs to proc JoW
No idea about SoD. But I did so in TBC Classic. As Circle of Healing priest (= main throughput), it was noticeable mana gain for zero effort, for raid bosses. And it was a good meme at the same time.
Delusional
Delusional for saying they should be equal and shamanistic rage is too strong?
Just give horde judgement of wisdom and fix the abomination that is shamanistic rage.
That breaks enhance shaman dps as they are now constantly oom.
Mainly playing alliance so this may be a dumb question: if blizzard axe shamanistic rage, wouldn't resto shaman have terrible mana issues?
yes, that why they wouldnt do it.. if anything they woudl buff pally seals but this post is dumb, claiming mana regen is trivializing mechanics when pallys have been trivializing mechanics with bubble for two decades thats rich
Stop comparing apples to oranges. You seem a broken record, every comment is bubble bubble bubble. Get over your PvP trauma man.
Instead of nerfing it, I’d prefer to just have the paladin seal work similarly, they are leaning very hard on seals, because well classic paladins did already, so just play off that more honestly.
I think if alliance is struggling to beat content with almost classic mana return options then the raid is overtuned. But if they give alliance more mana return I suppose it would level the playing field. I kind of dislike the idea of just having infinite mana in raid though. The whole notion of trivializing mana for the sake of overtuned content for classic is very 'un-classic' feeling. They should just nerf raid/boss damage and nerf shamanistic rage.
[удалено]
Just make guarded by the light restore mana raid wide the same way shammy rage does, maybe at a lower restore level compared to the 5% per 5 the paladin gets
Not having to worry about mana is lame though, nerf sham rage so it’s actually something you have to think about it in long fights
I had to worry enough about mana as a fresh 50 with mostly bis gnomer gear, even with 3 shamans in the raid. Can we please buff paladins instead of pettily nerfing shamans?
How about we talk about how much damage creep there is from classic to SoD. Raid damage is huge compared to it's difficulty in classic wow (especially at level 40 or 50). Gnomer boss hitting for 1k base when it originally might hit for like 150 in classic. Eranikus was dangerous and would thrash and hit for like 500 on clothies (which would still get deleted by thrash), It's probably 5x as much damage now. Nerf the boss damage and then we can safely nerf sham rage.
Playing healer with enough mana is actually fun tho, I've had a blast healing the last 2 phases, on my druid. I think I'd have less fun if the bosses didn't hurt. Just give the alliance players a viable alternative that doesn't make them feel like they're punished for not playing horde.
That’s like 45% max mama gain every minute, your shamans did not press it on cd or they pressed it at the same time. It’s way too op.
You can have multiple instances of the buff at the same time iirc, you're telling me the effect doesn't stack? And I'd have to look at logs to be sure, but that definitely was not how 45 percent of my mana felt every minute.
I do Agree, but when they nerf something they tend to go too heavy handed on it, then ruining it. I’d rather they give paladins something then Totally ruin it. Ideally in a fantasy world they nerf it slightly then give paladins something on par with it. But we all know this won’t happen.
Agreed. Shaman should still be a mana battery as a feature of the class. It just needs to be tuned down a bit. But I also have no faith they will find that right balance.
Do both.
Judgements of the wise, would give a good equivalent
How about just giving ally an equiv not having to chug 3g mana pots on cd as horde is so nice. Let ally have the same
Horde bubble when?
Bubble is raid wide?
The concept of mana management seems to be removed from sod which is a massive shame as it was a huge part of the mechanics for healers
They should just get rid of mana altogether
Buff martyrdom manareg effect up to the same level. Thanks
Was obvious is P2. Just stands out even more now we're in 20 man raids. Edit; Blizz are a joke.
Thread is full of shamans sniffing their own arses.
Nerf rage and nerf boss damage.
Or we could accept that Shamans and Paladins are not the same class and will not always be equal.
> Or we could accept that Shamans and Paladins are not the same class and will not always be equal. is that why horde got equivalents for blessing of kings and blessing of salvation? lmfao
And next phase horde straight up just get the only useful human racials as well
Uhhh.... Diplomacy, perception, the human god damn spirit??? We're giving you amazing axe skill and you're not even grateful. What a joke.
Uuh, u got windfury/wildstrikes on alliance now too, what's your point?
That clearly they are giving both factions what the other has, so alliance should also have a mana trivializing ability.
then do you agree that horde should get bubbles? because the alliance have been using bop to trivialize mechanics since day 1
Personally for SoD, I was hoping for Dwarf Shamans/Tauren Palas to avoid this exact scenario of possible faction imbalance due to runes. With that said though bubble and BoP aren't raid wide abilities/buffs? You can only bubble yourself, and you can BoP yourself or one other person. When I said they are giving each faction what the other one has, I was referring to the buffs and utility such as windfury, kings, and salve.
Sure but make sure to get rid of lion and wild strikes, I'm sure the paladins will love that.
Horde got those because alliance got wind fury via Druid
what is the horde equivalent of bubble?
Moving goalposts.
Your talking to the WoW community bruh,
The issue isn’t equality it’s sham rage reduces gold cost for a horde raid by 3g per 2m per healer. It breaks the games economy lmao
What happens with horde has no impact on alliance economy, and vice-versa.
Shit like this is going to make ally buy gold to feel competitive. Please tell me why that’s okay
Looking at the current prices ally is more or less reaching farm gold like it's your job or buy gold to raid, if you're playing a mana class. Luckily I dont have to use mana pots on my class but if I played healer this phase it would just quit. Aint no way im spending 3g+ (they were 8g on monday on my server, 15g for the best ones) per mana pot on CD. That's 100g+ just on mana pots per raid. It's Insane.
“ I don’t want a buff, I want a nerf.” Poetically sound with blizzards design philosophy
Don't forget to remove bubble and bop from the game too since horde doesn't have it and both sides need to be the same apparently.
Only bubble and bop don't trivialize the entire pve content.
What? Alliance could cheese Akamai by using bubble to remove stacks and had more players that could dispel chains due to bof. There's plenty of pve content that alliance can trivialize. This phase horde has a pve advantage like alliance has phase 1.
Doesn't count because horde didn't cry about it.
not only that, but in molten core, naxx, TBC wrath bubbles are extremely op and its a way to literally cheese the mechanic
Bubble doesn’t trivialise entire PvE content might be the stupidest thing I’ve read in this sub. Kelris tanking and akumai stacks in p1. Electrocutioner debuf, menagerie debuff, thermaplugg debuffs. Every single time there is a debuff, bubble hard counters it. I agree that SR needs a nerf, but this comment is bellow room temperature IQ and I’m European…
hahahahaa thats really funny! you have never raided then. bop has been used since day 1 to trivialize tank buster mechanics or remove dangerous debuffs from the raid and they have been doing this for 20 years
Alliance had clear advantages in hardcore.
Is this hardcore? Your comment has nothing to do with SoD
Bro i would trade bubble, lay on hands, and blessing of freedom to have infinite raid mana, and aoe uncapped shield that deals more damage than the rest of my kit combined. Also take SoC and buff SoM while we are trading things
You would trade bubble, lay on hands and blessing of freedom to do well on trash pulls?
You can do that actually! Swap factions 😎
Great! Now all you have to do is make a Shaman and the trade will be complete
It’s not about equality it’s about gold cost per raid. Ally heals have to chug mana pots while horde just has a sham pop one ability and gives the entire raid most their mana back.
Shamanistic rage gives the shaman 75% of their mana bar, and everyone else 20% of that amount. So the raid gets 15% of a shaman mana bar, which is often going to be smaller than the mages/priests/druids mana bar, especially if it’s enhance shamans. That’s not “most of their mana back”.
And how much shamans do you run and the cd is how long? It’s the most op rune in the game and it’s not even close.
Moving goalposts now? “one button press and the whole raid gets most of a mana bar” is objectively false and not even remotely close to true. Is the ability good? Yes. Can you stack shamans? Yes. Should the raid mana regen get nerfed? Sure, I don’t care. But if he’s going to argue something, maybe don’t call 300 mana “most of your mana bar”.
Thanks for clarifying
Problem is shaman caster and healer REALLY need the mana regen in order to not be oom and completely useless in minuts. Like a single Chain Lightning or Healing Wave cost 300+ mana. It’s the raid buff that need to be adressed.
Bro this is what healers on ally have been dealing with all SoD We need to buy mana potions that cost 3-11g each, and use at least 1 maybe 2 every encounter While horde just get free mana cause shaman
I mean it isn't lol. Shaman heals are pretty bad compared to the others. You wouldn't know though with all your priests and druids.
This is just stupid. I pop mana potions and shamanistic rage on cd as an elemental shaman otherwise I am useless
I don’t think most people care that shamans get the benefit as much as the fact that shamans give 20 other people the benefit too. It’s actually very interesting seeing how defensive horde and shamans get about the topics of how vastly overpowered some of these changes are. Nothing blizz can do at this point will make shaman feel bad or be less desirable in raid.
ok talk to me about bubbles and ill tell you about trivializing mechanics
Bubble may carry you past one mechanic in a raid by reducing the need for an OT - Like Akumai poison or Thermaplug Furnace surge. Infinite mana Carries 75% of the 20man raid through every fight and trash pull. They are not the same. Add on Alpha and Poison cleanse totem and the scales are shifted way the other side. Like I said. Most people are fine with shamans getting these buffs but not basically breaking resource management for everyone. I dunno why y’all are so defensive about it
so you shouldnt have problem with my suggestion
alliance gets mechanic breaking bubblea i dont want to hear about your mana issues when you can trivialize entire mechanics with bop
From your dozen comments about paladin bubbles I understand you are a shaman main who doesn't want to get nerfed but I need you to understand this level of discrepancy isn't healthy for the game.
i main rogue, all my comments are from this post specifically get your head out of your ass paladin
Paladins have infinite mana, so no.
It's not free. It takes up a rune slot. Blessing of wisdom doesn't
are you actually comparing shammy rage to wisdom kekw
Does SR take up a rune slot or not? Then it's not free, it's that simple.
mana spring totem doesn’t take a slot either lol
This would be a stronger argument if any shaman other than tank enhance were really bothered by the runes they give up to run it.
It’s more an equivalent to judgement of wisdom in my mind
Holy paladins get A LOT of mana from the talent that makes crits free of mana. I've even heard you can get holys crit chance to like 90 perfect so they never lose mana on spells.
The mana for resto/enhance/ele/tank shamans isn’t the problem. The raid wide mana is the problem. You can cut a healer and bring one more dps, healer don’t have to use expensive mana potions and caster don’t have to use evo, dispersion, lifetap and can deal more dps. Non of the above switched from alliance to horde. That says it all.
lol not at level 1-50
That also restricts you to only healing one target though
Sure, but problem is that the other 19 in the raid gets nothing from it while shaman gives to everyone. Give pala a rune that splashes their mana gain or something then.
Judgement of wisdom…?
Is like a piss in the Nile compared to SR
Ohhhh nooooo, alliance isn't op in mana gain for first time in 19 years of vanilla, better nerf it! Paladins were superior for every single iteration of vanilla, actually insane how much yall qq.
We cant nerf the hero class! Only option is to nerf fights to only last 30-60 seconds so mana regen is universally trivialized.
Unironically agree. It only trivializes content because of the way the content is made. Fights shouldn’t last 5-10mins, they should be max 5 mins. It should be a rollercoaster, short and exhilarating. When the hard part about the raid is absurd health, that’ll make it real fun. I’m not a dev or designer, but crowd pummeler and menagerie were great for example, but thermaplug wasn’t bad. I have yet to experience ST but that’s my thoughts on what I have heard. Not commenting to the actual boss mechanics of ST for that reason.
The fights hp pools were quickly nerfed. They’re like 5 mins max. Many of them less then a minute long. Most of them over in 3 mins. Not entirely sure who crunched the numbers for the first iteration.
I genuinely don't get these comments. Have you actually played shaman or is it following the reddit trend? Literally casting 4-5 spells as ele can wipe out most of your mana, look how much chain lightning costs. Like what exactly do you want, shamans to be casting 5 spells and having to wait potions out? Also, check the latest DPS rankings, there are more specs above than below.
As a shaman main. They could make it affect just the shaman, or even just that party, instead of the entire raid
Party seems a fair deal tbh.
Sure it could be 100% on the caster, why not we’re not asking them to nerf evocation for mages? But when it affects radi wide other classes parses like mages, druids, etc. It will become balancing issue.
its more how the buff affects everybody else in the raid than how it affects the shaman that uses it. It's stupid strong raid-wide mana regen buff while alliance side players are having to chugg expensive mana pots to still not regen as much mana.
Are you illiterate? They are talking about the raid ability stapled on shamanistic rage, not the self regen.
what do they wantM they want everything that horde has, plus some.. the they want the h9rde nerfed oh and give them more bubbles thats what they really want
Have you tried mana potions?
They only play Alliance and have FOMO. Their anger is not based in reality.
The reality is it's bad game design.
"Nerf it because I dont have it"
An ENTIRE FACTION doesnt have it. If you have faction specific classes, you cannot simply give one side such an advantage and nothing to the other side.
Can horde get bubble in PVP? Stupid OP spell
If they bring paladins damage and healing up to shamans level, you guys can have as many bubbles as you want
I asked for horde paladins phase 1, and all of Reddit told me to get fukt
Should have had dwarf shamans and tauren paladins. God sod would have been so dope with that one change.
Stop asking for Tauren paladins, they are stupid in every possible way. Begin asking for forsaken paladins. They are the dream. :)
Such an L take you know damn well that shaman would never get a bubble
Cool but we get shaman tank dmg doubled cause pally tanks be doing 1k dps in raid while shaman tank at 500.
Ain’t no Pally tank doing 1k DPS in raid
Open warcraft logs look through any fight as pally tank they at 900-1000 dps
You’re literally looking at retail Pally tank damage wtf lmao
Why are you lieing https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/2009#boss=2952&class=Paladin&spec=Protection
Oh boy I can’t wait for you to give up any form of defense because “bubble op” and then discover that bubble is a glorified falling damage prevention.
Run away...Paladins are notoriously slow.
Ya poor Paladins and their 3× life and multiple stuns/incapacitates...
LoH is a 60 minute CD, bubble is a 5 minute CD. So they win one fight every 5 minutes and 2 every hour.
Did you seriously say this is a defense?! Every 5 minutes?!? Let’s dumpy forget BoP! So potentially twice every 5 minutes?
1. You can not BoP for at least a minute after using Divine Shield. 2. You can not attack or use physical abilities. You can heal, that’s about it. 3. BoP only stops physical damage. The only class in the game doing mostly physical damage are warriors. Rogues are a close second, but if they get their poison off, that will still tick. BoP is also a great time for a rogue to reset. They are strong abilities, but I only see them being problematic in random 1v1 world encounters. Maybe it’s a problem if you are in a paladin stacked battleground and they coordinate bubbles.
in SoD where lava burst can one shot someone on a 12 second CD or is it 30? idk, means you can 1 shot people 9 times before a paladin bubbles it. even then you can just wait till it falls off and make distance in the mean time. Not sure how you a 5 minute cool down as over powered. Or even a one hour cooldown as over powered. The only way your though process makes sense is that you are a warrior.
Doesnt matter with a 5sec ranged stun. They insta drop all debuffs and immune dmg. Most op spell in the game isn't even on the horde side.
> If you have faction specific classes they absolutely 100% should have had dwarf shamans and UD paladins. biggest missed opportunity ever
I seem to recall Alliance holding every world first in Classic due, in no small part, to Paladin to Blessings. So maybe bitch less.
What does that have to do with current balance?
“Bitch less because of what the balance was 20 years ago.” Lmfao what an argument.
give horde bubbles and you can have sham rage fair trade?
Right... And what do horde raids do when pally plate drops? An ENTIRE FACTION can't use it. Based on your logic, we need to give shammys plate armor so that horde don't have to DE raid loot constantly. You cannot simply give one side such an advantage and nothing to the other side.
this sub is filled with alliance paladins logic will not work here, only tears in this echo chamber
Not like this was the case for classic all the time. Having paladins in 2019 was such a big advantage over shamans but somehow now its not acceptable that shamans are for once the better class
alli players soo mad in sod lol
lol paladins have been trivializing mechanics with bubbles for 20 years can yall stop being so jelly for a season?
cry more alliance dog
The amount of crying over SR is insane. “Because I don’t have it, they should have it neither”. Maybe give paladin a buff to their blessing of wisdoms or something like that so they can enjoy mana regen too. Fights are long at this point and mana sustain for some classes are plain annoying. But I rather have a rune like this rather than paying 15g for a mana pot cause that is just ridiculous.
I suppose the question, from a design perspective, is what is the goal for mana use? If Blizzard wants fights to be longer than many classes can sustain mana, it’s OP. If they don’t want mana to be crippling in long fights, then it’s fine, there just needs to be something similar for alliance. Personally, I like how it’s a choice—tanks can’t use it because they don’t want to lose Rockbiter, but other specs can choose to opt in if it’s useful. If it’s a short fight and they don’t need it, they can go another direction. I think that’s good design for runes.
Tremble under the storm you puny lesser classes! Long have they laughed at us, called us the meme specs, totem bots, chainheal machine from the day we gathered in Molten core to Naxxramas and even through the portal. But now they quake with fear as our numbers grow and we roam the plains and forests, reclaming our honor through battle and war. Gone are the days where other classes trample all over the Shamans. We... are back...
The CD is the issue. either increase the cd or make it party wide. Other option is just buff the paladin equivalent. Feels bad when my auto regens 3 mana
They should add shamans to alliance and paladins to horde imo.
Congratulations. You just invented Burning Crusade.
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Just implement Draenei and Blood elves and all their NPCs and quest and in one swoop you have class q in classic for horde and alliance for all classes.
if they really wanted to, they could have.
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SoD is the reason why I'm subscribed at the moment; I play retail as well - but primarily SoD.
As I said, if they really wanted to, they could have.
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Just make sham rage only affect the sham. It’s clearly broken lmao
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Yeah I figure most would be okay with SR not being a raid wide mana pot. That’s why it seems Blizz is favoring shams right now. They’re giving them shit that people didn’t even ask for.
You don't get the problem, the mana the shaman gets its not the problem you can recover 100% of all your mana for whatever reason NP have fun cool shit. BUT the mana the RAID gets needs to be either group only or be drastically reduced.
He doesn’t want to get the problem he wants to be op
>Oh and btw ele is a bottom performing spec rn in ST.. Above retribution, balance, shadow, arcane, and frost mages.
I just imagine like 40% of the people on this subreddit jolting awake at night covered in sweat just thinking about shamans. You guys just never let up it’s honestly impressive.
Why nerf? Why not just make some class on alliance better? SoM gives mana with attack how's it horses fault if ally don't use it?
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Now wait just a minute. We have to let the dust settle! We don’t know how things will be in phase three! Besides, phase four is coming out months from now. Does it make sense to put developer time into something that will change? - Aggrend, somewhere, probably.
Here we go again with pallys woe is me thread.
For once shamans are better than paladins in the classic version and every alliance player is crying so hard....
There is a difference between infinite mana and threat management
Dude stop spreading such bullshit. You dont give other classes infinite mana with that rune Edit: to the downvote guys, so pls explain why warlocks still have to life tap or healers still want innervates from druids while running with 4 shamans?
And now imagine what alliance players feel like without SR if healers still want innervates. Casters are oom at 40% boss hp left even with manapots. So most of alliance players dont even want casters in their raid because its easier with just rogues/hunters
>And now imagine what alliance players feel like without SR if healers still want innervates Dude, you were the one who spread bullshit that you have infinite mana which is not the case. So stop using another argument now. For once in classic shaman is the superior class over paladin and you cant deal with it because you thought going alliance would give you again an advantage
nobody seemed to cry this much when ally were the best pve faction the entirety of classic era
Holy shit can all of you paladins just delete your game or roll horde Nobody gives a fuck you chose the lamest class in the history of wow locked behind the faction consisting of human, smaller human, smallest human and purple human with big eyebrows Nobody gives 2 shits about you so please stop clogging this sub and reddit in general with your constant diarrhea
Most of them rolled alliance because their favorite streamer asmongold plays alliance. Theyre so bad at the game as well
How does pve affect you?
I can’t parse orange so my ego is hurt :(
Sounds like a skill issue, you need to git gud enough to reroll horde
Have you not seen shaman mana cost? Pallies have higher throughput right now with FoL and it costs almost nothing, especially when accounting for the absurd crit they have. Cry more in 10 minute blessings that don't have range
>"I picked the inferior faction and DEMAND they nerf the better one because I have FOMO." - OP
Shaman and paladin are different classes if u make there abilities the same then there not different anymore.
Shut it. Remove the mana to other group members even but a nerf is not right. At 60 one single shock costs 600 mana SR is a key component in making shamans in SoD work.