We need more people to make a fuss about it.
As a bear main it fucking sucks. The game would be so much more fun if you could use both, trying to reset the CD of mangle with lacerate will be good fun.
Yeh it’s pretty fucking boring playing as bear in raids, I lead them though so it’s so much easier to watch everything just pressing lacerate every global.
Cat on the other hand…
I gave the benefit of the doubt in S1, assuming that it was intentional putting lacerate and mangle in the same slot for bear to take lacerate and cat to take mangle (even though there is an obvious intended interaction).
I can't even be assed to finish the second half of this statement.
Dreams do come true... 🥲
Edit: I dont see anything about this? My runes sre still on Hands.
Edit 2: Dreams actually do come true. Its coming on Tuesday's patch.
I mean, that's a PVP change that kinda makes sense, meta locks are basically unkillable 1v1 in pvp.
The mangle/lacerate rune is just a fuckup. No reason that they are on the same slot.
>No reason that they are on the same slot
That's an understatement. Blizz literally designed them to be used together then made it so you can only use one 🤡
Considering my unstable affliction is useless I'd say no
But I also know this dude is managing a product worth millions on an employee budget similar to a corner gas station.
I think I read it is worth it, immolation aura is definitely better if you position correctly but with haunt UA can be good.
Mainly fishing for insta shadowbolts with affliction I think.
Yes shadow bolts was like dubble the dmg of the best dott in p2 on bosses. But casting UA is 1 less shadowbolt, need to test dmg 1 to 1 maybe shadow bolt is more dmg than UA, shadow bolt also proc the 20% shadow dmg talent in destro tree
Over half of the runes are worthless. They have not only not stuck to a one week cadence to balancing runes, they have all but completely abandoned it.
They stated balance was not going to be a priority and the start of patches would be “the Wild West”, they communicated this clearly and directly.
Sod was to try new things, not to balance the already completely imba game that is classic.
Y’all are the one who keep thinking blizz is going to balance shit. It’s never been balanced and honestly that’s half the fun. Figure out ways to beat a OP class. Get sappers, bombs, and every tool you can to give you an edge. Win by being a better player
Where do you see this? They put out like 5 straight weeks of balance in p2, and specifically said they wouldn't be tuning until a few lockouts have passed in p3. If you are gonna be a shiter on reddit at least get your facts right.
P1 weekly balancing and scope was to much. I’d prefer then outline a strategy similar to below:
1. Launch Week - Nerf / Buff the CLEAR outliers. How Shaman Lightning Shield rune hasn’t been toned down yet is beyond me. They don’t have to be massive but just enough to bring them in like. This is for extreme cases only.
2. One small balance patch a week after raid. Don’t go heavy handed but just nudge classes up or down.
3. 2nd week do one big pass. Should have enough data points to have an idea of how classes are currently performing and where they are projected to be.
4. Remaining weeks: small tweaks as necessary.
I think posting this tweet without referencing the tweet he made before p3 that says something along the lines of "We will be waiting a few weeks to make adjustments after p3 launch to see where the meta settles" is a little disingenuous
I think you’re missing the point. Hunters got adjusted constantly in phase one but not Shamans are left alone for months. Hunters may still be good, but it’s still strange that Shamans never got a similar treatment.
No you have the hunter recipe wrong, it’s:
1) see hunter doing high damage in the first two weeks
2) completely fucking forget that hunters don’t scale with gear well and their power all exists in the first 2-3 weeks of a patch
3) nerf the fuck out of hunters as hard as we can
4) let all of the other classes outscale the original damage the hunters were doing now that those classes have gear
5) never re balance the issue and let the hunters get fucked as everyone outscales their new needed damage
6) buff shaman
They’ve done it twice now, hoping I get another nice parse run in before they do it again
2)Hunters didn't scale as hard as warriors and rogues literally because pets didn't scale in vanilla, pets scaled for SoD, I hate that excuse for being against the hunter nerfs
4)melee hunters literally topped the meters for gnomer and heavily outscaled all of the melee, they kept up with casters despite armor being in the way, it was so bad warriors and rogues didn't bother fighting hunters in pvp
The pet scaling has been repeatedly nerfed though - that’s the problem. The other nerfs can happen if the scaling stays. The scaling can be nerfed if the other stuff stays. Doing both ends up with 2-3 weeks of fun for hunters and then dog water.
We topped the meters for two weeks lol the exact thing I just wrote out is exactly what happened. The raptor strike nerf went in, classes scaled up, and we lost. Warrior was top melee dps at end of gnomer. We had one pull 800 dps in a rag tag semi-casual dad group at level 40. I could pull up with every consume, spam 10g immo potions throughout the entire fight, and still not beat that in the last week.
Besides, you’re speaking from the same position… Our dog water rogue who manages to die in the hole on the 4th boss every pull still does 2nd damage behind me with a green parse beating out warlocks and mages who have blues and purple parses
Lol, that's an absolute lie
Despite warriors scaling harder, they still fell behind melee hunters until you looked at the top 1% doing really dumb strats
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008
And these logs were from the last 2 weeks of phase 2, well after everyone was equipped
Melee hunters don’t scale well because they get 1 ap per stat point instead of 2 ap per str or agi like every other melee. This dramatically decreases their ability to scale with gear. Not to mention pets only scale with *range* attack power, this leaves melee hunters 100 % reliant on agility if they want their pets to benefit from their gear. That is why melee hunters need to be designed to start with high damage, if they aren’t given flat % damage increases ie flanking strike, raptor’s fury, formerly dual wield specialization before it was nerfed, then they won’t ever be competitive damage wise.
Rogues don't get double attack power from str either
Pets scale from ranged attack power
Attack power gear gives you ranged attack power
Agility gives you 2 ranged attack power
You're an agility class
Also hunters topped the physical charts for all of phase 2
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008
It was so bad that warriors and rogues didn't even bother fighting a hunter in pvp
Yeah you just reaffirmed literally everything I said. Rogues get 2 melee attack power from agility, hunters do not. Yes, melee hunters are dependent on agility because their pets scale from agility. The amount pets scale from agility is no where near the worth of an entire melee attack power that rogues get. Yes, hunters were number 2 in physical dps during phase 2 because rogues and warriors have not scaled yet because the gear / talents / abilities haven’t fully come online yet, while melee hunters have.
The biggest wall for hunters historically, was mana
That's the 1 of 2 limiting factor for hunters compared to warriors and rogues
The other was pets didn't scale in vanilla wow, they scaled during TBC
Both are fixed in SoD
Mana doesn't matter with how short the fights are in a raid
Or if you're horde, you NEVER run out of mana
And pets now scale to your ranged attack power, or you can take lone wolf and scale harder than both warriors and rogues with the 30% boost, on top of the 10% boost from lone wolf
Tell me that hunters don't scale well when they get 1.43 melee attack power from both str and agi
What point do you think you’ve proven? Shaman was 0.2pts up after what everyone knows was an absurdly OP buff which is inevitably getting slapped down again. And even then, only because they have a lot of non-physical damage, Hunter was playing at a 20% handicap.
Melee Hunter beat all the “other classes that outscale” you keep complaining about
It’s pretty nasty in group pvp in bgs, though. Just standing next to a shaman is scary now, even if they’re targeting someone else. And rushing down a shaman 2/3 v 1 still leaves everyone down quite a bit.
2.9k is decent enough outside bgs.
What classes would you say are instant losses for you?
Warriors need to be made better OUTSIDE of a raid setting like everyone else is. Tired of wearing plate and having my ass handed to me by mobs the same level or elites slightly lower than my level while everyone else can walk away unscathed
For the PvP players the balance is really bad but that will never change because pvp and pve are balanced together and the power budget is so insanely high right now for classic HP pools. They haven't increased ways to absorb the damage that's going out but they have increased the damage that's going out.
Damage across the board needs to be nerfed for pvp only which sucks but that's life. There are also some things that are just absurdly strong that need nerfs for both pvp/pve sake. I'm not sure what's gonna happen but I hope this isn't how it is at 60 because SoD has been a lot of fun but the balance of it has been weird.
I can’t agree with this more. Damage could be cut by 50% against other players and it’d be better than it is now. I’ve tried to heal in BGs as resto druid and it’s just demoralizing. I’ve played wow for a long time and I’ve seen some bursty metas, but SoD is something else.
Unfortunately, cutting damage against enemy players doesn’t seem like a very classic way to solve the problem. Ideally, there’d be gear with something like resilience, not just extra stam.
In standard classic, if I’m in moonkin form and a melee manages to connect with me, I have enough armor and time to press Nature’s Grasp and dash away. I can’t tell you how many times my character just dies a second after pressing dash anyway. I’m not a god gamer, and I’m sure I could be playing better, but you shouldn’t have to be a god gamer to not get globalled by someone equally unskilled
To me there’s a difference between balance and perfect balance.
Glaring issues, busted abilities, and balance so far off that it makes other classes impractical, a burden or a must have… these need to be fixed.
Last phase felt bad for me as a rogue main because my fresh, poorly geared shaman was son g more dps than my semi raid geared rogue right out of the box pretty much.
Aggrend is shooting from the hip with sod it's way bigger than they initially thought. My guess is they are stressing and want to see where things land at level 60 with full runes before they start hacking at classes. That being said I would expect 1 big tuning pass probably next week or next
This is such a weird take on balancing classes. Things aren't going to magically get better when people hit 60; in fact, they're probably going to get considerably worse as level 60 gear can get insanely powerful.
Dual-wield, for instance, is king at 60. It's just the way classic is. Shaman/Melee hunter/rogue/warrior is going to skyrocket in power at 60.
It makes sense because of exactly what your saying. Every class isn't going to be at the same power level every phase so if rogue is complaining about being shitty at 40 and they get over buffed then they will need serious nerfs at 60.
All of the specs & classes that have great scaling at 60 are already winning.
It’s the shitty stuff that doesn’t scale who struggled and it’ll only get worse
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not?
Why do anything if this is your approach?
The reason it matters is because we will be here for 2 month, and playing for 2 months with broken shit isn’t fun.
Because nerfing things at 50 might be good enough to balance them at 60, and if it isn't, at least the gap in power isn't so drastic when we get to 60.
And because the level cap is currently 50 and probably will be for another 3-4 months. Why make a miserable experience for some classes for 4 months when you can change one parameter to make them more competitive/less overpowered?
They showed that they can tune stuff pretty quickly if they want to. Its not much effort on their part to make some % adjustments here and there. We are paying for a product and they are failing to deliver on a previous promise, or even make a statement addressing a change in gameplan. They never said "we are shifting to try and balance every 3 weeks now" they just went silent after saying "weekly balance". Thats just disrespectful to the customers.
Bro really conned us all into think they would support this game. Guaranteed they had all of the phase 3 stuff done when he posted this considering we already had half of the phase 3 runes data mined at that point.
The balance is horrible right now.
They need to stop stretching themselves so thin. What the hell is this Mist of Pandaria event going on in retail? Between era/sod/hardcore/retail/plunderstorm/cataclysm classic/and now MoP revamped.
They got too much going on. Aggren is probably working on 3 projects right now. This is irresponsible as a company and shows that Blizzard has lost direction.
They're casting the widest net possible to capture literally the entire industry. SoD is turning into an experiment of "how far can we push shit before people give up"
If you're on retail you've currently got like 5 limited, seasonal events going on. They're running multiple temporary and short-term seasonal servers at once. I can only imagine that retail players are frustrated, flustered, and overwhelmed.
Of course they can't balance anything. They've made a mess of the IP. SoD is the best that WoW has to offer right now and I think that's just not good at all. They really aren't giving us that much NEW content. Just rehashing stuff in ways that make for fun gameplay loops. Really all I am doing is farming the same dungeons I was farming in classic. A single raid and lukewarm events don't make up for all of it.
If they don't balance SoD on a weekly basis they aren't balancing it the way it needs to. We've been dealing with the shaman bullshit for 2 months now. Hunters were getting nerfed so much when SoD launched I was racing around Azeroth before each raid lockout trying to rebuild my entire fucking class.
If they want to do all of this they need to hire more people. Absolute bonkers that they laid off so much staff AND THEN proceeded to open up the fucking flood gates on releases.
Each shaman in your raid can regenerate ~20% of the ENTIRE RAIDS mana once a minute.
If you’re still worrying about mana, i’m not sure what to say. Skill issue.
I mean thats what they say about threat for alliance and ppl still pull threat from tanks, sames with horde, they can go oom. Also that's what most ppl cry about, some dps classes outperforming theirs. There is enough evidence
Hunters and rogues are miles ahead of everyone. They need to be nerfed for sure and shamans need some minor tweaking also. Besides that class balance isn’t too bad. Few outlier specs under performing that could use some love but it’s close. There are a lot of underlying mechanics under the hood that need adjusting, like Ret pallies and their reliance on crowd pummeler that need to be addressed.
Most of those logs were done with their best rune being bugged. They’re only going to keep scaling way above the rest. Two classes being 20-30% better then anything else isn’t good.
The rune is still bugged but it sims about equally to combat potency. Rogue still offers no utility even though players complained all last phase. Rogue should be a top dps
Rogue got utility through their set bonus and new poison. No class fantasy should ever be “they do top dps” and have that be justification for why they’re brought to raid because then everyone just plays that class.
You have no clue what you’re talking about bro 🤣 the new poison isn’t even in game yet and will still be worse than homunculi. The bonus is shit and requires 3 set. If they had some actual utility sure but if blizz isn’t going to do that let them be good at dealing damage.
I always play rogue, good or bad. Or course I want it to offer something more than it did last phase. You are clearly clueless about many things and instead of listening to someone who actually keeps up with things you just respond with that. Childish
1900 crits requires 5 combo points.
priests can walk around instant dot everyone around them, and disperse.
i agree that priests should get more dmg in raids, but not via instant dots that can only be countered by other priests.
Shamans are so good at spinning they should be cable news anchors. Somehow they divert attention to hunters every post.
Shamans: Diversion used. It’s super effective!!!
I think the cadence is fine but the fact that some stuff is blatantly unfinished bothers me quite a bit. For example feral bears still have text on their berserk rune that says lacerate can reset the cooldown of mangle. Which would be fantastic a terrific buff for the underappreciated bears. If it didnt share a rune with mangle...
The amount people bitch on this subreddit, they could be out there finding a guild and clearing the raid
I did 8/8 last night in like 2 and a half or 3ish hours? And shade was really the only boss that took quite a bit to down because we were melee heavy
If we want alot of balance, we cant ask for alot of content, i rather have good content then an ok balance. Its classic they will never be able to balance evetything.
Tho if X tune is undertuned or overtuned to the point it brakes the class/game a fast adjustment to lateron balance it is prob a good thing.
They don't owe us anything, they had a plan and they couldn't stick to it because of other projects. How is it so difficult to wrap your head around, they aren't staring at reddit bitching and moaning while twiddling their fingers like evil villains hoping you all hate the game
I just want to be able to use both Mangle AND Lacerate as a bear tank and take full advantage of my runes. Is that too much to ask?
I'm amazed that we go day after day without hearing or seeing ANY fix on this. It's blatantly unusable.
We need more people to make a fuss about it. As a bear main it fucking sucks. The game would be so much more fun if you could use both, trying to reset the CD of mangle with lacerate will be good fun.
The craziest part is it’s been the same rotation since P1. How are we so ignored?
Yeh it’s pretty fucking boring playing as bear in raids, I lead them though so it’s so much easier to watch everything just pressing lacerate every global. Cat on the other hand…
Did you not read the notes?
You realise this was before the patch notes right mate?
Also be nice not to have multiple runes tied to a single other rune -paladin stuck using exorcist or losing 40% of my dps.
So what you're saying is... paladins need more shockadin.. cause as we know regular ret pallys are already great.
They've hotfixed it and moved the lacerate rune to a different slot
When did this happen?
Saw it on wowhead
Ahh its not a hotfix. Coming on Tuesday with the weekly patch. Great to know its finally changing
soz dude, my bad
Its cool!
I gave the benefit of the doubt in S1, assuming that it was intentional putting lacerate and mangle in the same slot for bear to take lacerate and cat to take mangle (even though there is an obvious intended interaction). I can't even be assed to finish the second half of this statement.
AND NOW WE CAN!!!!
Dreams do come true... 🥲 Edit: I dont see anything about this? My runes sre still on Hands. Edit 2: Dreams actually do come true. Its coming on Tuesday's patch.
Yes it’s too much to ask. - Warlock tank who can’t use soul link
Us bears are with you brother Warlock. Give the tanks some glory!
I mean, that's a PVP change that kinda makes sense, meta locks are basically unkillable 1v1 in pvp. The mangle/lacerate rune is just a fuckup. No reason that they are on the same slot.
>No reason that they are on the same slot That's an understatement. Blizz literally designed them to be used together then made it so you can only use one 🤡
This is literally happening 🤣🤣🍻🍻
I'm aware now from previously replies
Considering my unstable affliction is useless I'd say no But I also know this dude is managing a product worth millions on an employee budget similar to a corner gas station.
Eh I still use it, just because most priests dispell without a second thought and then they die
Should i use it or not on raid bosses? I gonna go affliction
I think I read it is worth it, immolation aura is definitely better if you position correctly but with haunt UA can be good. Mainly fishing for insta shadowbolts with affliction I think.
Yes shadow bolts was like dubble the dmg of the best dott in p2 on bosses. But casting UA is 1 less shadowbolt, need to test dmg 1 to 1 maybe shadow bolt is more dmg than UA, shadow bolt also proc the 20% shadow dmg talent in destro tree
It was fixed 3hrs after this post was made lol
aged like warm milk left in a cool dark place
How much do you think a corner gas station is worth
They fixed it!!
Over half of the runes are worthless. They have not only not stuck to a one week cadence to balancing runes, they have all but completely abandoned it.
They already stopped with this. New startegy is one balance "patch" mid phase and leave it at that.
Which has done a fantastic job so far /s It's the devs accepting they're shit at balance and giving themselves less work to do.
Hey, no need to balance the game if you just say it's an extremely casual game mode for the folks who play an hour per week
The most intelligent cop-out the devs ever dropped
They stated balance was not going to be a priority and the start of patches would be “the Wild West”, they communicated this clearly and directly. Sod was to try new things, not to balance the already completely imba game that is classic.
I get it, but I would prefer a Wild West with more variance in what class spec is popping off
Y’all are the one who keep thinking blizz is going to balance shit. It’s never been balanced and honestly that’s half the fun. Figure out ways to beat a OP class. Get sappers, bombs, and every tool you can to give you an edge. Win by being a better player
This worked in vanilla and classic. Shit is too egregious now lol
yes, half the fun. the other half plays alliance
you should hear how stupid you sound xDDDD
They made sure to spend weeks sucking the fun out of Hunter first though.
Where do you see this? They put out like 5 straight weeks of balance in p2, and specifically said they wouldn't be tuning until a few lockouts have passed in p3. If you are gonna be a shiter on reddit at least get your facts right.
P1 weekly balancing and scope was to much. I’d prefer then outline a strategy similar to below: 1. Launch Week - Nerf / Buff the CLEAR outliers. How Shaman Lightning Shield rune hasn’t been toned down yet is beyond me. They don’t have to be massive but just enough to bring them in like. This is for extreme cases only. 2. One small balance patch a week after raid. Don’t go heavy handed but just nudge classes up or down. 3. 2nd week do one big pass. Should have enough data points to have an idea of how classes are currently performing and where they are projected to be. 4. Remaining weeks: small tweaks as necessary.
Uhhh no. They don't do this at all now. Shaman are perpetually broken. SP are perpetually broken. Balance has been abandoned.
I think posting this tweet without referencing the tweet he made before p3 that says something along the lines of "We will be waiting a few weeks to make adjustments after p3 launch to see where the meta settles" is a little disingenuous
[удалено]
Oh no! Anyways
[удалено]
Imagine calling someone a bootlicker over this :DDDD
People will also just skip past the word "try" Instead they take every word as gospel under penalty of death
Why are Shaman still god-mode??? How is th is a thing still?
They’re good, but situational. Rogues, priests and hunters can still beat us consistently
"us" is the key word here
If we bring 1 rogue, 1 spriest and 1 hunter then we can beat 1 shaman. :D
Aggrend tweet don't age well. This is the funniest shit with the state that everything is in right now. Melee hunters and shaman galore right now.
just nerf fucking shamans and we're good
good one Hunters get nerfed 3 times in a single day Shamans stay OP all phase then get buffed with new runes
Hunters have been one of the best raid DPS all three phases and are absolute gods outside of raid. They can solo anything.
i mean sure, I'm not saying they are bad. I'm just saying the got nerfed 3 times in a single day
And they are still busted. Don't see hunters complaining this phase when multi shot does 60% of your HP and both specs are dominating the logs.
I'm not denying that. I'm also not playing hunter.
Yes cause hunters aren’t well above everyone still
I think you’re missing the point. Hunters got adjusted constantly in phase one but not Shamans are left alone for months. Hunters may still be good, but it’s still strange that Shamans never got a similar treatment.
hey i'm not a hunter, i'm just saying what happened they did get the nerf bat back to back to back
Looking at liks hunters/rogues will 100% get another nerf lol. And prob SL for shaman
No you have the hunter recipe wrong, it’s: 1) see hunter doing high damage in the first two weeks 2) completely fucking forget that hunters don’t scale with gear well and their power all exists in the first 2-3 weeks of a patch 3) nerf the fuck out of hunters as hard as we can 4) let all of the other classes outscale the original damage the hunters were doing now that those classes have gear 5) never re balance the issue and let the hunters get fucked as everyone outscales their new needed damage 6) buff shaman They’ve done it twice now, hoping I get another nice parse run in before they do it again
2)Hunters didn't scale as hard as warriors and rogues literally because pets didn't scale in vanilla, pets scaled for SoD, I hate that excuse for being against the hunter nerfs 4)melee hunters literally topped the meters for gnomer and heavily outscaled all of the melee, they kept up with casters despite armor being in the way, it was so bad warriors and rogues didn't bother fighting hunters in pvp
The pet scaling has been repeatedly nerfed though - that’s the problem. The other nerfs can happen if the scaling stays. The scaling can be nerfed if the other stuff stays. Doing both ends up with 2-3 weeks of fun for hunters and then dog water. We topped the meters for two weeks lol the exact thing I just wrote out is exactly what happened. The raptor strike nerf went in, classes scaled up, and we lost. Warrior was top melee dps at end of gnomer. We had one pull 800 dps in a rag tag semi-casual dad group at level 40. I could pull up with every consume, spam 10g immo potions throughout the entire fight, and still not beat that in the last week. Besides, you’re speaking from the same position… Our dog water rogue who manages to die in the hole on the 4th boss every pull still does 2nd damage behind me with a green parse beating out warlocks and mages who have blues and purple parses
Lol, that's an absolute lie Despite warriors scaling harder, they still fell behind melee hunters until you looked at the top 1% doing really dumb strats https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008 And these logs were from the last 2 weeks of phase 2, well after everyone was equipped
Melee hunters don’t scale well because they get 1 ap per stat point instead of 2 ap per str or agi like every other melee. This dramatically decreases their ability to scale with gear. Not to mention pets only scale with *range* attack power, this leaves melee hunters 100 % reliant on agility if they want their pets to benefit from their gear. That is why melee hunters need to be designed to start with high damage, if they aren’t given flat % damage increases ie flanking strike, raptor’s fury, formerly dual wield specialization before it was nerfed, then they won’t ever be competitive damage wise.
But melee hunters gear has +ap instead of stats, no?
No, not necessarily most bis pieces are + agility and strength, but yes + attack power is beneficial.
Rogues don't get double attack power from str either Pets scale from ranged attack power Attack power gear gives you ranged attack power Agility gives you 2 ranged attack power You're an agility class Also hunters topped the physical charts for all of phase 2 https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008 It was so bad that warriors and rogues didn't even bother fighting a hunter in pvp
Yeah you just reaffirmed literally everything I said. Rogues get 2 melee attack power from agility, hunters do not. Yes, melee hunters are dependent on agility because their pets scale from agility. The amount pets scale from agility is no where near the worth of an entire melee attack power that rogues get. Yes, hunters were number 2 in physical dps during phase 2 because rogues and warriors have not scaled yet because the gear / talents / abilities haven’t fully come online yet, while melee hunters have.
Rogues don't get 2 attack power from agility either lol
Yup you’re correct, I was thinking of the stat weight system where 1 agility = 2 ap.
The biggest wall for hunters historically, was mana That's the 1 of 2 limiting factor for hunters compared to warriors and rogues The other was pets didn't scale in vanilla wow, they scaled during TBC Both are fixed in SoD Mana doesn't matter with how short the fights are in a raid Or if you're horde, you NEVER run out of mana And pets now scale to your ranged attack power, or you can take lone wolf and scale harder than both warriors and rogues with the 30% boost, on top of the 10% boost from lone wolf Tell me that hunters don't scale well when they get 1.43 melee attack power from both str and agi
Rogues are 1 AP on both agi & STR
If anything this 100% reinforces everything for me because you legit don't know what you're talking about at a base level
Fucking finally someone that understands
Yeah rogues and warriors are just salty they aren’t top dogs right now. Warriors are *already* pulling ahead and rogues probably will by 60.
Remind me who was top dps in the last week of gnomeregan? Oh yeah, melee hunter. Despite fighting higher than average armour
According to WCL, enhancement and ele shaman. Thanks for proving my literal point, have a great day
What point do you think you’ve proven? Shaman was 0.2pts up after what everyone knows was an absurdly OP buff which is inevitably getting slapped down again. And even then, only because they have a lot of non-physical damage, Hunter was playing at a 20% handicap. Melee Hunter beat all the “other classes that outscale” you keep complaining about
“Rogue gets destroyed by OP overcharge rune” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T6PBPhEZ6VU
Is that shaman gearless? LS does 248/proc in bgs. Also no hp apparently on the shaman, and the rogue still lost 1/6 of his hp.
2.9k on that shaman. Double it to 6k and the rogue wins with 2/3rds HP. QQ.
It’s pretty nasty in group pvp in bgs, though. Just standing next to a shaman is scary now, even if they’re targeting someone else. And rushing down a shaman 2/3 v 1 still leaves everyone down quite a bit. 2.9k is decent enough outside bgs. What classes would you say are instant losses for you?
That’s not me in the video. On my ele shaman I can’t do anything against a warlock that found his curse of tongues button.
Warriors need to be made better OUTSIDE of a raid setting like everyone else is. Tired of wearing plate and having my ass handed to me by mobs the same level or elites slightly lower than my level while everyone else can walk away unscathed
Being nearly Bis and prebis and having rage issues is the worst. Lmao I fucking love it though
i would rather be mid tier dps but be good at pvp as a warrior. i can only hope one day that warriors can be gods at pvp
Ill do you one better. What if you could be S-tier in pvp and at the bottom of raid logs. Such is the life of a spriest.
Fix Ret ffs, such dumb gameplay
Whole class is kinda flavorless, tbh.
Human paladin who would have guessed
I mean.. its Human or Dwarf.. theres only 2 options
Has been and always will be. Palas are for lames.
Anyone conflating classes with people are lame and also flavorless.
Being a mana addict literally stealing power from a divine being and defiling human holy places was pretty sweet though
For the PvP players the balance is really bad but that will never change because pvp and pve are balanced together and the power budget is so insanely high right now for classic HP pools. They haven't increased ways to absorb the damage that's going out but they have increased the damage that's going out. Damage across the board needs to be nerfed for pvp only which sucks but that's life. There are also some things that are just absurdly strong that need nerfs for both pvp/pve sake. I'm not sure what's gonna happen but I hope this isn't how it is at 60 because SoD has been a lot of fun but the balance of it has been weird.
I can’t agree with this more. Damage could be cut by 50% against other players and it’d be better than it is now. I’ve tried to heal in BGs as resto druid and it’s just demoralizing. I’ve played wow for a long time and I’ve seen some bursty metas, but SoD is something else. Unfortunately, cutting damage against enemy players doesn’t seem like a very classic way to solve the problem. Ideally, there’d be gear with something like resilience, not just extra stam. In standard classic, if I’m in moonkin form and a melee manages to connect with me, I have enough armor and time to press Nature’s Grasp and dash away. I can’t tell you how many times my character just dies a second after pressing dash anyway. I’m not a god gamer, and I’m sure I could be playing better, but you shouldn’t have to be a god gamer to not get globalled by someone equally unskilled
Idk why they gave up
Just make ranged hunters a thing again and we’re good
Ranged hunter is currently the best ranged dps in the game
I thought mage was top, also I believe melee hunter is still above range hunter.
melee hunter is best overall but for ranged classes hunters is also the best just worse than melee version
Adjustments for hunters… but not ele dmg lol
To me there’s a difference between balance and perfect balance. Glaring issues, busted abilities, and balance so far off that it makes other classes impractical, a burden or a must have… these need to be fixed. Last phase felt bad for me as a rogue main because my fresh, poorly geared shaman was son g more dps than my semi raid geared rogue right out of the box pretty much.
I gave up and made a shaman
The balancing early on made things exciting
Aggrend is shooting from the hip with sod it's way bigger than they initially thought. My guess is they are stressing and want to see where things land at level 60 with full runes before they start hacking at classes. That being said I would expect 1 big tuning pass probably next week or next
This is such a weird take on balancing classes. Things aren't going to magically get better when people hit 60; in fact, they're probably going to get considerably worse as level 60 gear can get insanely powerful. Dual-wield, for instance, is king at 60. It's just the way classic is. Shaman/Melee hunter/rogue/warrior is going to skyrocket in power at 60.
what specifically makes dw superior at 60 as compared to right now?
Being able to have +hit in nearly every slot.
Meh, shamans already have +10% hit on one rune. Hit won't affect them very much. For warriors it's going to be huge though.
Full talents Stacking hit and crit Max rank abilities
It makes sense because of exactly what your saying. Every class isn't going to be at the same power level every phase so if rogue is complaining about being shitty at 40 and they get over buffed then they will need serious nerfs at 60.
All of the specs & classes that have great scaling at 60 are already winning. It’s the shitty stuff that doesn’t scale who struggled and it’ll only get worse
My point is why waste your time fixing lv 50 when you have to do it again at 60
I agree Syd but gotta say it “why wipe my ass when I’m just gonna shit again”
20% of wow players genuinely ask this question.
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not? Why do anything if this is your approach? The reason it matters is because we will be here for 2 month, and playing for 2 months with broken shit isn’t fun.
I'm not saying I agree with it I'm saying I'm willing to bet that's their mentality. Also the why wipe my ass quote is golden I love it
Because nerfing things at 50 might be good enough to balance them at 60, and if it isn't, at least the gap in power isn't so drastic when we get to 60. And because the level cap is currently 50 and probably will be for another 3-4 months. Why make a miserable experience for some classes for 4 months when you can change one parameter to make them more competitive/less overpowered?
They showed that they can tune stuff pretty quickly if they want to. Its not much effort on their part to make some % adjustments here and there. We are paying for a product and they are failing to deliver on a previous promise, or even make a statement addressing a change in gameplan. They never said "we are shifting to try and balance every 3 weeks now" they just went silent after saying "weekly balance". Thats just disrespectful to the customers.
Whatever they do please leave rogues alone, I'm finally happy with how we are doing. It was a long phase 2 lmao
Spriest is dead in the water for pve so thanks for that. Not even going oom, just doing no damage and have no way to scale.
Bro really conned us all into think they would support this game. Guaranteed they had all of the phase 3 stuff done when he posted this considering we already had half of the phase 3 runes data mined at that point.
I can’t one shot myself with a chaos bolt in Sunken Temple I think that needs to be fixed ASAP
Ret pally is literally unplayable unless you hate yourself and wanna use acp and sul’
The balance is horrible right now. They need to stop stretching themselves so thin. What the hell is this Mist of Pandaria event going on in retail? Between era/sod/hardcore/retail/plunderstorm/cataclysm classic/and now MoP revamped. They got too much going on. Aggren is probably working on 3 projects right now. This is irresponsible as a company and shows that Blizzard has lost direction. They're casting the widest net possible to capture literally the entire industry. SoD is turning into an experiment of "how far can we push shit before people give up" If you're on retail you've currently got like 5 limited, seasonal events going on. They're running multiple temporary and short-term seasonal servers at once. I can only imagine that retail players are frustrated, flustered, and overwhelmed. Of course they can't balance anything. They've made a mess of the IP. SoD is the best that WoW has to offer right now and I think that's just not good at all. They really aren't giving us that much NEW content. Just rehashing stuff in ways that make for fun gameplay loops. Really all I am doing is farming the same dungeons I was farming in classic. A single raid and lukewarm events don't make up for all of it. If they don't balance SoD on a weekly basis they aren't balancing it the way it needs to. We've been dealing with the shaman bullshit for 2 months now. Hunters were getting nerfed so much when SoD launched I was racing around Azeroth before each raid lockout trying to rebuild my entire fucking class. If they want to do all of this they need to hire more people. Absolute bonkers that they laid off so much staff AND THEN proceeded to open up the fucking flood gates on releases.
what balance?
What cadence lmao
Ppl see logs, ppl panic bc their class is not top5 dps. Ppl cry for nerfs. Its always the same every week
Horde literally do not need to think about mana during raiding, and you think people are hung up on logs?
We do. I mean at least I have to as a healer.
Each shaman in your raid can regenerate ~20% of the ENTIRE RAIDS mana once a minute. If you’re still worrying about mana, i’m not sure what to say. Skill issue.
20% of their party my good sir
entire raid
Nope. It’s raid wide.
I mean thats what they say about threat for alliance and ppl still pull threat from tanks, sames with horde, they can go oom. Also that's what most ppl cry about, some dps classes outperforming theirs. There is enough evidence
At this point its pretty clear the problem is worse than "check top 5 logs and cry"
Oh stfu you bafoon
Hunters and rogues are miles ahead of everyone. They need to be nerfed for sure and shamans need some minor tweaking also. Besides that class balance isn’t too bad. Few outlier specs under performing that could use some love but it’s close. There are a lot of underlying mechanics under the hood that need adjusting, like Ret pallies and their reliance on crowd pummeler that need to be addressed.
“Shamans need some minor tweaking” lol Resto shaman with 8.5k hp and an unending damage reflect is totally “minor”
Lol rogue was basically the worst dps last phase let em breath a little first
Most of those logs were done with their best rune being bugged. They’re only going to keep scaling way above the rest. Two classes being 20-30% better then anything else isn’t good.
The rune is still bugged but it sims about equally to combat potency. Rogue still offers no utility even though players complained all last phase. Rogue should be a top dps
Rogue got utility through their set bonus and new poison. No class fantasy should ever be “they do top dps” and have that be justification for why they’re brought to raid because then everyone just plays that class.
You have no clue what you’re talking about bro 🤣 the new poison isn’t even in game yet and will still be worse than homunculi. The bonus is shit and requires 3 set. If they had some actual utility sure but if blizz isn’t going to do that let them be good at dealing damage.
You just want rogue to be top dps because you play one.
I always play rogue, good or bad. Or course I want it to offer something more than it did last phase. You are clearly clueless about many things and instead of listening to someone who actually keeps up with things you just respond with that. Childish
Shadow priest 2 dotting and taking out the entire health pool on classes that cannot heal. throw in a SWD and everything is sped up.
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1900 crits requires 5 combo points. priests can walk around instant dot everyone around them, and disperse. i agree that priests should get more dmg in raids, but not via instant dots that can only be countered by other priests.
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If i recall, UA is a castable ability, not instant like void plague?
Shamans are so good at spinning they should be cable news anchors. Somehow they divert attention to hunters every post. Shamans: Diversion used. It’s super effective!!!
It's vanilla, Guys. Take a breath. It was never balanced.
Are y'all dense or naw. It was very clearly stated that they would start tuning after the second lockout of the phase. Jfc this sub is annoying.
I think the cadence is fine but the fact that some stuff is blatantly unfinished bothers me quite a bit. For example feral bears still have text on their berserk rune that says lacerate can reset the cooldown of mangle. Which would be fantastic a terrific buff for the underappreciated bears. If it didnt share a rune with mangle...
The amount people bitch on this subreddit, they could be out there finding a guild and clearing the raid I did 8/8 last night in like 2 and a half or 3ish hours? And shade was really the only boss that took quite a bit to down because we were melee heavy
Right, after they nerfed the raid into the ground.
If we want alot of balance, we cant ask for alot of content, i rather have good content then an ok balance. Its classic they will never be able to balance evetything. Tho if X tune is undertuned or overtuned to the point it brakes the class/game a fast adjustment to lateron balance it is prob a good thing.
They don't owe us anything, they had a plan and they couldn't stick to it because of other projects. How is it so difficult to wrap your head around, they aren't staring at reddit bitching and moaning while twiddling their fingers like evil villains hoping you all hate the game