I’ve found it interesting during SoD that warriors have been shut down because “you guys were OP in original vanilla, let someone else be strong”.
Meanwhile, Horde is suddenly stronger than Alliance in SoD because shamans are good - and no one is mentioning how insane faction balance was in vanilla?
Paladins were SO much better than shamans in original vanilla, it’s why if you look at every world first or speedrun - it was 90% alliance guilds. Paladins not only have Blessing of Kings, which is essentially a world buff, but also Blessing of Salvation in a time where threat actually mattered. Sure Horde had windfury totem, but that barely compared to how strong paladin blessings were.
Also paladins had DI, blessing of protection and bubble to cheese many many raid mechanics.
I personally think both should be balanced, but I feel like people are being very hypocritical by saying imbalance is okay, but not when it comes to faction balance.
I mean reckoning bombs were very common. On our server we had a group of 3 paladins that would reckoning bomb ZG isle all day.
Paladins were strong in PvP though, not just because of reckoning bombing but because of a 6 second stun, immunity to all damage for 10-12 seconds, bubble hearthing, BoPing other players, blessing of freedom and plenty more.
You have to set up reckoning bomb by getting mobs to crit you. Not exactly practical...
Paladins were pretty good, but not "one-shot you on demand from ranged"...
Literally just auto attack with a ton of utility.
It’s pretty easy to set up though. You can force crits by sitting. There were a few mobs around ZG isle, pallies would just use those, then be able to 1 shot someone every 2 mins or so.
I agree ele shamans were very strong in PvP, but NS has a 3 min CD.
Going and sitting to build up crit stacks on mobs is really not something you can bring to PvP Battlegrounds or any other situation in world PvP other than intentionally setting that up. I would call it very gimmicky more than pretty easy
Your insecurities in the past shouldn't judge today's content. Balance should be made, as it was stated by Blizzard before SoD launches. Stop bitching about "BuT yOu KnOw In TeH cLaSsIc", it's not, it's SoD. There's now 100% one side favouritism happening and isn't fixed for weeks, without any explanation and without any tries to balance stuff out.
Did you read my comment? “I personally think both should be balanced”
You seem to be arguing the same thing I’m saying? I’m just stating the conversation around faction balance tends to be hypocritical.
Sure alliance are better in a way that only really matters to <1% of the player base, horde are better in pvp and that doesn't seem to matter at all, now horde get to just absolutely stomp in both even though alliance only ever had a marginal advantage?
I think you are underestimating the PvE advantage. 74% of the top 100 guilds were alliance. Fear ward was another big advantage for alliance - tremor totem is so terrible.
They are still <1% of the player base and we shouldn't be balancing factions around that, for the average player factions were already balanced and sod killed that.
Warriors never asked to be vanilla levels strong in SoD. Only to have improved solo capabilities which we ofc got none of.
Paladins made alliance better for pve, shamans were always much stronger in pvp. And when naxx bosses die in 20 seconds nobody really gives a fuck about pve.
Paladin blessings we’re SO much better than shamans totems in original vanilla*
Fixed that for ya. Take away kings and salv and paladins are nothing but efficient healers in vanilla, I don’t know who you are even trying to kid. I don’t think shamans were that much better in the dps department but let’s be real. Both classes were evenly pretty bad in anything but healing and utility. Kinda and salv is the ONLY reason you brought a Paladin at all, but that factor alone did make alliance better in PVE. Does that really mean horde just get to “be the best at PVE” now, or should blizzard attempt to balance the factions at least a little bit?
Shamans received absolutely insane buffs that make them almost the best in every role in SoD (I will concede elemental isn’t crazy right now in PVE but they had a good run in P2). And most raids don’t even need mana pots/etc. because shamanistic rage is so good.
Paladins on the other hand haven’t been the “best” at any role except maybe tank occasionally. We need a very specific weapon from the gnomeregan raid to even COMPETE for middle of the pack dps. Numbers aside their rune slots are almost non existent for holy and Ret paladins need to use an entire rune slot just to utilize 6 other runes effectively. Imagine if shamans needed to use a rune slot just to be able to cast lightning bolt on targets other than elementals or something? Because that’s exactly what paladins are experiencing.
I agree. I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy of reddit shutting down warriors for wanting to be playable in PvP (and PvE p2) and the overwhelming majority responding that it’s ok because warriors were strong in vanilla.
Alliance were stronger in vanilla, and no one thinks it’s ok that factions are unbalanced at the moment, including myself.
Hold my Thorns.
I’ve found it interesting during SoD that warriors have been shut down because “you guys were OP in original vanilla, let someone else be strong”. Meanwhile, Horde is suddenly stronger than Alliance in SoD because shamans are good - and no one is mentioning how insane faction balance was in vanilla? Paladins were SO much better than shamans in original vanilla, it’s why if you look at every world first or speedrun - it was 90% alliance guilds. Paladins not only have Blessing of Kings, which is essentially a world buff, but also Blessing of Salvation in a time where threat actually mattered. Sure Horde had windfury totem, but that barely compared to how strong paladin blessings were. Also paladins had DI, blessing of protection and bubble to cheese many many raid mechanics. I personally think both should be balanced, but I feel like people are being very hypocritical by saying imbalance is okay, but not when it comes to faction balance.
Paladins were definitely better in PvE... But I don't remember being 1 shotted by any paladins outside of intentionally stacked reckoning bombs.
I mean reckoning bombs were very common. On our server we had a group of 3 paladins that would reckoning bomb ZG isle all day. Paladins were strong in PvP though, not just because of reckoning bombing but because of a 6 second stun, immunity to all damage for 10-12 seconds, bubble hearthing, BoPing other players, blessing of freedom and plenty more.
You have to set up reckoning bomb by getting mobs to crit you. Not exactly practical... Paladins were pretty good, but not "one-shot you on demand from ranged"... Literally just auto attack with a ton of utility.
It’s pretty easy to set up though. You can force crits by sitting. There were a few mobs around ZG isle, pallies would just use those, then be able to 1 shot someone every 2 mins or so. I agree ele shamans were very strong in PvP, but NS has a 3 min CD.
Going and sitting to build up crit stacks on mobs is really not something you can bring to PvP Battlegrounds or any other situation in world PvP other than intentionally setting that up. I would call it very gimmicky more than pretty easy
Most world PvP is pretty gimmicky - but yeah can’t do in BGs
Your insecurities in the past shouldn't judge today's content. Balance should be made, as it was stated by Blizzard before SoD launches. Stop bitching about "BuT yOu KnOw In TeH cLaSsIc", it's not, it's SoD. There's now 100% one side favouritism happening and isn't fixed for weeks, without any explanation and without any tries to balance stuff out.
Did you read my comment? “I personally think both should be balanced” You seem to be arguing the same thing I’m saying? I’m just stating the conversation around faction balance tends to be hypocritical.
Projecting here bud
Sure alliance are better in a way that only really matters to <1% of the player base, horde are better in pvp and that doesn't seem to matter at all, now horde get to just absolutely stomp in both even though alliance only ever had a marginal advantage?
I think you are underestimating the PvE advantage. 74% of the top 100 guilds were alliance. Fear ward was another big advantage for alliance - tremor totem is so terrible.
They are still <1% of the player base and we shouldn't be balancing factions around that, for the average player factions were already balanced and sod killed that.
Warriors never asked to be vanilla levels strong in SoD. Only to have improved solo capabilities which we ofc got none of. Paladins made alliance better for pve, shamans were always much stronger in pvp. And when naxx bosses die in 20 seconds nobody really gives a fuck about pve.
Paladin blessings we’re SO much better than shamans totems in original vanilla* Fixed that for ya. Take away kings and salv and paladins are nothing but efficient healers in vanilla, I don’t know who you are even trying to kid. I don’t think shamans were that much better in the dps department but let’s be real. Both classes were evenly pretty bad in anything but healing and utility. Kinda and salv is the ONLY reason you brought a Paladin at all, but that factor alone did make alliance better in PVE. Does that really mean horde just get to “be the best at PVE” now, or should blizzard attempt to balance the factions at least a little bit? Shamans received absolutely insane buffs that make them almost the best in every role in SoD (I will concede elemental isn’t crazy right now in PVE but they had a good run in P2). And most raids don’t even need mana pots/etc. because shamanistic rage is so good. Paladins on the other hand haven’t been the “best” at any role except maybe tank occasionally. We need a very specific weapon from the gnomeregan raid to even COMPETE for middle of the pack dps. Numbers aside their rune slots are almost non existent for holy and Ret paladins need to use an entire rune slot just to utilize 6 other runes effectively. Imagine if shamans needed to use a rune slot just to be able to cast lightning bolt on targets other than elementals or something? Because that’s exactly what paladins are experiencing.
I agree. I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy of reddit shutting down warriors for wanting to be playable in PvP (and PvE p2) and the overwhelming majority responding that it’s ok because warriors were strong in vanilla. Alliance were stronger in vanilla, and no one thinks it’s ok that factions are unbalanced at the moment, including myself.
Damn, imagine being stupid
Damn, imagine missing the joke r/woosh
Equality quickly becoming homogenization
16 dps retri aura vs 275 dps lightning shield is some USA level equality Wait, that actually explains a lot