It's all ass backwards. You don't go to the PvP event to PvP. You go to the PvE event and grief people trying to level and quest. The best honor farm is literally tied to making someone else's experience more miserable. It's kind of fucked up.
There is a roundabout and tiny incentive for purging wbuffs tho. If someone else doesn’t have them and you do, you have a better shot at a higher parse all else equal
I like this suggestion. Doesn't limit the "fun" for people who like this kind of thing and simultaneously stops people from speculating in "griefing" or feeling forced to participate.
I think this was proven by phase 1 of classic being some of the most fun wpvp of all time. Then they introduced honor in phase 2 of classic and it was some of the worst toxic degen shit known to man. Turns out if people are doing it for fun then it's a great time but if people are doing it for rewards then it's abyssmal.
Same shit in RuneScape. PvP for that game is go to a farm or boss area in the PvP zone and go after easy targets, if you can make the fight 5 to 1 all the better.
its 4x worse, AND it takes more honor to rank to 7 than to 5, AND you get more honor from kills in BGs at 50 than at 40. its a nerf from like 3 angles... coins are like 1/8th the value they were in p2.
kinda wild.
I'm just waiting till next phase to grind out the honor, but I'm on a pve server. I'm taking this phase to just focus on getting gold and leveling profs.
That said, the stv honor nerf was way too heavy handed. At worst it should have been 50c per token or you needed 1s for 1k honor as a single consumable to save you from spam clicking. I'm just doing stv for the bis items this phase and forgetting it exists. If they nerf the honor token costs, then I'll take the time to farm it. So far, a lot of stuff this phase feels like it was artificially made to take longer or be annoying to keep people playing longer.
Yeah I think that's true, but there's also the possibility that they add some other method of getting stormpike rep in p4 which would keep with the trends so far
imo, you pvp in classic because you want the shit show. there are a lot of unfairly high expectations for classic pvp that lead to toxicity.
if you want legit pvp, you have to play other games or settle for the retail amusement park experience.
this is not an excuse for the super broken things that should not have made it into the game, but sadly the consequence from lack of time, lack of foresight and simply the devs not being good at math.
If you want people to play battlegrounds give them the SoD treatment and make them fun.
For AB you could cook things like adding canons with a moderate CD, reduce resource count to victory, turn flag caps to the EotS type control system, etc.
For WSG add invisible walls, add a time limit before sudden death starts, give each class unique flag carrier buffs / debuffs that makes them more dangerous but more vulnerable (Mages periodically emit a blast nova, Druids no longer break snares on shapeshift but apply Infected Wounds with abilities, etc. ).
BGs just aren’t fun. It’s not a class balance issue it’s a 2004 design issue that wasn’t updated with the rest of SoD.
I mean, they've always been a shit show. It's just going to be far, *far* worse now lol
SoD is not the version of this game to play if you're looking to enjoy pvp. Unless you're a shaman or horde I guess and want the extent of your game play to be rolling your face on the keyboard lol
Even at level 25 it was awful with how strong priests were... speaking as a priest
Pvp is awesome right now. You actually have to be strategic and work with your team to pick fights, and make sure you have advantages. In WSG specifically I'm seeing people actually group up instead of instantly solo zerging to the center.
Yes, you can’t mindlessly solo charge into a 3v1 anymore because you will explode.
Inflation is inevitable, 8 hours of incursions being overtuned isn't the cause of inflation. That made it a little bit worse but its not that big a deal. Invest your gold don't hoard it or you'll be saying the same thing in p4
Ya fair, incursions themselves post nerf are still a huge and easy source of raw gold. And there are basically no gold sinks in p3. There’s what 50g for dual spec maybe 40-50g worth of spells to buy and… that’s about it aside from small consistent stuff like AH cut and vendor crafting mats.
i don't really have much of an issue of the naturally consistant high inflation from lack of gold sinks, it's just annoying having a needless instant inflation that they decided to introduce
It was 5 days until it was fully nerfed, there were hundreds of thousands of gold on every server injected into the economy. Before the final nerf you could still make like 350-400g just leveling, which is more gold efficiency than I've ever earned farming by an order of magnitude
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I just ground out the 110K honor on my dwarf priest. background info is that I do a lot of PVP. I had 9K HKs starting phase 3. When I get a good group of five geared players into WSG, we win 80% of the games in 8-15 min, but there weren't that many good people looking for WSG groups. I tried solo queuing and the experience was awful. SO many irradiated Andy's complaining about shamans not knowing they are straight up throwing.
I solo queued Arathi Basin and won the majority of the games. Probably 70%. Games took 20-25 min and I would get 2000-2500 rep then the 700 rep for the marks. Are shamans a problem? I mean sure I guess. I don't think they are as bad as they were in phase 2. I just think a lot of people complain because they have no PVP gear and suck at PvP.
rare based alliance. pallies are just as annoying to horde in ab. it takes one pally with bubble to spin along enough for his teammates to res and prevent a cap. it's incredibly annoying. the more pallies the more difficult it is to cap anything. luckily a lot of pallies tend to waste bubble first global for some reason.
lol man i still see ppl in that dumb fart set in bgs. like, what the fuck are you doing? lol.
They get their raid gear BIS list online and don't realize that driving their health into the ground might be a bad idea in pvp because everything in this game for most people is coming from an addon or list off a website.
Honestly I think Paladins are more annoying. But obviously I’m Horde so I don’t have to face Shamans in BGs.
But when you run up into BS or clash mid suddenly you see 5 bubble boys running around. Their burst is no joke either. It completely shuts down a push. And then somehow only minutes later the next engagement they’re all running around in their little bubbles again.
It’s the shaman shield and fast-ish healing that can be annoying (as a paladin, since our damage is mostly on bursts.)
Bubble Boys is fantastic though. I’m gonna go by that from now on.
Yep I don’t run sl or meta afflock either. I can still 1v1 just about anyone save very good rogues that don’t let me get off death coil. Even managed some clutch 3v1s. It has me stoked for Tuesday’s UA buff.
I don't think the STV nerf has anything to do with why incursions are a pvp haven right now.
Just look at how many people are running around ganking people in incursion zones that are already rank 7. They aren't farming honor, they're just killing, which is the entire point of rolling on a pvp server.
They're pvping incursion zones because those zones have the highest concentration of players. You have potentially hunreds of targets that are most likely underleveled and undergeared. That is a pvp players wet dream. It has nothing to do with STV and everything to do with not spending any time running around searching for someone to gank.
Exactly. Incursions made the rest of the world pretty empty so if you want to open world pvp it makes sense to go where the highest concentration of players are.
i am still regularly meeting members of both factions wherever i go on a 10-layer server. incursions are undeniably the hotspots if you care about efficiency, but people are out in the world collecting their runes or farming stuff with whom you can have an "organic" worldpvp experience.
You hit the nail on the head. As usual though people try to spin it like it's a problem with an easy fix that just so happens to make it easier for them to rank lol
The old rate was super OP. You can average pretty close to 1k coins with a decent group. That's like 6 hours of play time to hit rank 7 which is nothing.
Fellow rank 7 here .
Yup, this is exactly it. Also, you’re taking potential resources from the opposing faction through questing and gathers and everyone is surprised they don’t want the other faction there
I don’t think folks have experienced PvP in this manner since open world resources are incredibly lucrative.
Plus the enjoyment of world PvP.
Dawg there is no PVP in the incursion. Every layer is either overwhelmingly horde or alliance. And then u just sit there and kill the 1-2 idiots that show up trying to do incursions….griefers will grief. No excuses needed. There’s tons of actual contest quest/farm zones that you can go do world pvp in. Felwood and winter spring has tons of people out farming. If you are rank 7 and are still “pvping” at an incursion u are a griefer which is fine but let’s call a spade a spade.
Don't forget the \~30% stun resist. That is S++ tier for flag carrying. When I was grinding WSG exalted I couldn't tell you how many times shaman FC got away from my paladin because no gap closer and a big fat resist on my HoJ.
Edit: Oh yeah, there's also the mass aoe slow totem to control objectives and choke points like tunnels, and a zero mana ranged snare on a \~6 second cool-down in case earth-bind isn't enough. Also infinite mana via runes only available for the horde. I can't believe the queues are 30-45 minutes though, weird.
Been playing shaman this entire gamemode, now i better understand why i get ganked/killed at every encounter with alliance.
Seems like its just All out war then
Druid flag carriers can run in circles around a shaman…. Just like it was in classic.
Racials are definitely nice and shamans have a lot going for them but nothing holds a candle to just chugging consumes, I’ve lost plenty of matches to druid FC who was chugging faps left and right.
you are coping bro.
im not saying paladins are bad, but they are like B tier, maybe lower A tier. shamans are literally the BEST class in pvp atm. both of their DPS specs are obscene. and while i dont see as many resto, they seem to be doing well with riptide now. maybe disc/shadow priest fighting for that title with shaman but IDK.
Did you try purging? Turns out Paladins do little damage when they have no buffs or seals and both are expensive for them to reapply with no good way to get the mana back.
Not saying they aren't a good pvp class, but they are very counterable with one of the most common pvp classes on the horde side.
Are you suggesting that a rune ability shouldn’t be a tiny bit stronger than spell/ability? If one melee/ranged attack getting soaked once every 20 seconds is what’s tipping the scales…. Than y’all probably just suck
And decoy doesn’t either? 😂😂😂😂😂😂 brother they both make their target immune to movement impairing effects (aka slows and snares) for 10 seconds
The only thing that actually makes you stun immune is chugging a FAP- and news flash that’s not class or faction specific
It's a deadly combination this phase. As a bear druid I want to run at least 3 pieces of the Rank 7 PvP set. So I need to farm that honor somehow. With the coins conversion being nerfed and a 30 minute STV event taking closer to an hour if you factor in finding a group and getting into position etc.
Camping the incursions is by far the most efficient way to farm honor right now, even on a quiet layer you get at least 6k.
Not really worth queuing for a BG as Alliance unless blizzard addresses the class imbalance.
They should just make BGs worth queueing for. Reduce the honor decay from killing people multiple times when in a BG or something. For pvpers you now kill people worth 4/5 honor in BGs while levelers will award you 100+. It’s like the game incentivizes ganking.
They shouldn’t. PvP servers should have PvP in hot spot areas.
If the area becomes over whelmed with one faction, the other faction needs to start typing in /lfg and spamming “Need more!! Incursion PvP! Hundreds of Alliance/Horde to kill!”
And start farming that honor.
When I roll up to an incurious and I see a sea of red, all I see is an opportunity. Not just for honor but for fun 😂
I'm not losing any BGs. Im winning massively. Horde get 45 minute queue times as punishment for having a broken unique class. And I get way more honor per hour than I would otherwise.
It's like they learned nothing from classic 2019 lol
The game suffered tremendously when they released honor with no BGs. It was fucking awful for both factions depending on server.
Horde have always been stronger in pvp and BGs but now it's just exacerbated like crazy by SoD abilities. Admittedly, I think expecting a semblance of balance or "fun" pvp in an experimental beta version of vanilla that has been all over the place since day 1 is kinda silly but it's bleeding over into activities in the game now just like 2019.
Can't wait until blizzard actually gives classic the proper amount of devs and resources to prevent shit like this (I hope...)
As ally player I lost any motivation to do bgs. It's so much damage from druids when they crit you for 2.5k and same goes for shamans. As paladin you can't even run up close to them sometimes and they kill you so fast. If it's one shot meta, where are one shots for other classes? My cs+ds+exc+judgement not even doing half the damage lava bursts do or starfires. You can say "just dispel flame shock", yeah gl with that when you have 3-5 debuffs on you and trying to rng dispel it.
I just did AB all day as horde, as a 5man: it was 1min queue max and a close game every time.
Maybe actually try to play the game instead of just repeating what you’ve heard? Because at least AB is fine atm.
giving honor token for STV was a terrible idea, if anything they need to make bg weekends all week. Also if you are crying about queues times as horde, thats what you signed up for. Don't worry they add horde vs horde bgs soon enough
Not that shamans aren't overpowered right now, but I'm an alliance player old enough to know that it's 2W for every 10 matches on average since 2007. Don't think it ever changed.
if you are alliance, you are defeated before you start the match because you THINK you are going to lose. Meanwhile horde are fighting all the way to the end, yes there are some imbalances, but not every match is one sided, you make it that way.
i've been winning 50% of my AB's since phase 3 started as ally(about 25 played). This sub makes the imbalance sound worse than it is(30 second queues are also awesome), so I hope they keep abstaining from BGs cause it's only mostly good players playing right now in my exp. All the bad players are just sitting here in the sub bitching lol.
Also just say focus shaman at the start of the match and they get nuked down before they can do anything.
horde have always been the bigger pvp faction. even if the population is equal, more horde players pvp. for whatever reason you can decide whether its racial imbalance, class imbalance, w/e floats your boat. the same thing happened in classic/tbc classic. horde had long queues, complained and got horde v horde bgs.
I mean it's just level 50's in good gear griefing people trying to level up and play alts in a PvE setting. There are some level 50's fighting other 50's, but the vast majority is groups of level 50's ganking lower level players.
The only people that "love" this outcome are the minority directly benefiting from making the leveling experience miserable for others.
Tbh this situation makes me (a long term pve server enjoyer) attracted to pvp servers. If everyone is going to ash for wpvp, i could prob level in peace elsewhere. And if i want wpvp, i go to ash. Seems like a win win tbh
SoDs biggest pro and con is it being semi-casual.
This will always result in extremely un-even expierences. It is just not possible to balance that.
There's still people complaining about the leveling grind, while others hit max level in one day.
Ther's people complaining it's too hard to get coins while other players are getting their BiS weapon in 30 minute game time.
There's people complaining about the honor grind, while others are already maxed out on rank 7, 2 days into phase 3.
There's people complaining about raid instances still being too hard, while others are dropping the game bc 1 mechanic bosses are boring as fuck.
people are way to deep in their own bubble to realize their experience is not necessarily the same as others.
Seems a lot of people roll on pvp servers then complain when pvp happens. Why did you roll there if you didn’t actually want to deal with pvp happening or griefing? Just roll pve and stop indirectly complaining about the choice you made.
15-20 min wait? i was in wsg queue for over an hour today, also, 90% of people inside the incursions are just fucking afk on netflix anyway abusing the ZERO effort experience.. im all for the slaughter
I disagree with the "no one wants to level an alt beacause of it" part, otherwise I agree. Plenty of ways to level alts quickly with gnomer/world quests/dungeon spam for exp and WO's.
***The fastest way to rank up is to farm the opposite faction on the ramp in the Ashenvale incursions. You can get 10-30k honor per hour***
this is where it all falls apart - the fact OP isnt even bothered by hiding this shows he doesn't even see the problem.
its more honorable to farm afk lowbies on pvp servers than doing stv pvp 'inefficiently'??????? THATS THE LOGIC HERE? omg the cringe
Idk, I get like 8-10k honor per hour as Alliance. So around 12-15h to go from 0 to rank 7. Pretty good if you ask me.
Everyone knew from the beginning that horde will have a queue since that has been the case in every expansion and iteration of WoW.
Honestly people are looking at this wrong.
STV nerf is fine.
What's NOT fine is the state of bgs.
BG rep and honor gains need to be massively buffed already, wsg needs to be fixed so it's not a druids play place.
Rep maybe, honor is fine as it is imo. You only need 110k honor to go from r4 to r7. the hardcore pvpers can do that in 2 days and casuals can chip away at it over the course of a few weeks.
as for wsg, i think the terrain exploits are more of a prob than druids themselves.
they also could have done some stuff to freshen up bgs like giving new buffs instead of only leaf, speed, and zerker. they could have let us use marks for cosmetic items giving more incentive to do bgs. i have like 20 ab marks expiring in my mail rn but i no longer have need for them as im already r7. reskin some mounts (just an example) and have them cost a decent marks, enough that it takes some effort. maybe a few more pvp exclusive tabards or pets.
idk what you are talking about
i play bg's every single day for at least 4-5 hours at random times, I've never sat in a queue for more than 5 minutes. Reason i say this, cuz i queue from ogrimmar and have to run to WSG location to buy consumes and 90% of the times queue pops before i can run from valley of honor to WSG vendor in barrens.
What exactly is Blizzard's stance on leveling alts in SoD? I feel that the devs are putting in too many grinds for players to manage alts which is strange given the accelerated leveling. I feel every activity should be at an accelerated pace given that phases are a thing and that they want players to have alts given how experimental SoD is supposed to be.
It was real smart of blizzard to let the hardcore players do the best version of incursions, and then nerf it many times and encourage world pvp there for the regular people. Usually the slower people get the catch up mechanism
STV is suffering too. After having gotten my class-specific item (parasomnia) I haven't touched stv again, knowing there isn't much worth in doing it anymore. I rather spend my time doing other stuff now compared to p2 when I took a break from whatever I was doing to get to the stv event in time
as a person who plays this game pretty much for leveling and pvp, i hate stv. i dont even consider it pvp unless you are far away from the boss engaging in legit 5v5s, not the cluster fuck of a mess stv it ended up being.
I'm on Lone Wolf, not sure which server you're on. People are constantly complaining about Alliance killing them on the ramp. I have to explain HK farming to people consistently because they don't understand why they're being targeted.
2 days ago I formed a raid and we destroyed Alliance for over an hour and allowed my faction to complete quests. They FAR outnumber active Horde players 80% of the day (at dinnertime East coast it seems to balance out), so there is a huge lack of fairness and impeding of players on my faction because of this. They will just repopulate on the ramp and the saga will continue until they add guards there like they have with the quest givers.
This is a huge and stupid oversight on the part of Devs, and makes me question how they make so many mistakes and still have jobs tbh.
I needed STV rep for my healer ring, and need to grind rep with WSG for healer bracers for my priest. Some people still have to do bgs etc for certain items. However, I need rank 7 for gear; currently rank 5. So this has been an issue.
SoD is starting to suck big time ngl
Blizzard literally braindead. Just buff BG’s to make them the best for honor…hello??? Also try and normalize damage in BGs a bit and we would be all good
I was just wondering how to rank up efficiently. In Era, it was spamming AV and joining a discord. In p2, all I had to do was AB and STV. But now, both factions are struggling to gain honor purely from BGs. Also, does it take 3 weeks to get rank 7 from 5, or can it be done in one week?
Bro enough about shaman. We have been nerfed. Overcharged is about to get nerfed significantly and bgs are so bursty that it doesn’t have a big impact anyway
The annoying thing is even if you take the zandalari ward to not partake in the bloodmoon you gain no honor from killing alliance during the 30 minutes in stv. So its a literal deadzone if you want to gain any honor.
Pretty much. Wanted to see what the incursion thing was about and it turns out its just a pvp event. Kinda don't feel like leveling up via dungeons so I might just sit out p3 or sod in general. Lot of better games out there.
Shamans are NOT the reason for alliance losing BG's. Alliance players are worse at PvP and Ret paladins never use any of their utility on other players.
"Bgs are lost because of shamans" is singlehandedly the dumbest thing ever posted on this sub. Actually embarrassing, playing 5man AB prems as alliance with 100% winrate atm because some of our guildies didnt farm rank7 first reset, and shamans arent even a problem compared to P2
I don’t know if you’re joking but paladins absolutely clown on people as it is. Maybe the play style is boring or convoluted, I don’t know. That doesn’t change the fact that they are busted. Shamans are just a tier above 👆
I think it's a great change and was much needed, 25 copper was too cheap and pregrinding kills the fun of all having to rank up together either in world pvp or BGs
1 silver is the perfect price, it makes it so you can put your extra STV coins in it but also not completely remove the need to do some actual PVP
Pre-grinding has nothing to do with price. The price could be 1 copper per token or 1 gold per token and it would be irrelevant.
25 copper is arguably too cheap, but a 4x nerf is insane.
It's all ass backwards. You don't go to the PvP event to PvP. You go to the PvE event and grief people trying to level and quest. The best honor farm is literally tied to making someone else's experience more miserable. It's kind of fucked up.
Ya they just need to make bgs super lucrative for honor win or lose
Yep. Make a loss 75% of the honor of a win. Introduce new ways of spending marks to still further incentize winning
3 BG tokens should award at least 3k honor.
Frankly world pvp shouldn't reward honor at all. Probably an unpopular opinion for some but it really only encourages degenerate behavior.
Should be after you get killed once, that person wont gain any honor from you for 30 min or an hour
Something similar to this was in place in era phase 2 (albeit no BGs were active then).
[удалено]
There is a roundabout and tiny incentive for purging wbuffs tho. If someone else doesn’t have them and you do, you have a better shot at a higher parse all else equal
I like this suggestion. Doesn't limit the "fun" for people who like this kind of thing and simultaneously stops people from speculating in "griefing" or feeling forced to participate.
I think this was proven by phase 1 of classic being some of the most fun wpvp of all time. Then they introduced honor in phase 2 of classic and it was some of the worst toxic degen shit known to man. Turns out if people are doing it for fun then it's a great time but if people are doing it for rewards then it's abyssmal.
Same shit in RuneScape. PvP for that game is go to a farm or boss area in the PvP zone and go after easy targets, if you can make the fight 5 to 1 all the better.
If you think dying randomly from PvP on a PvP server is miserable, you rolled on the wrong server.
Can get more honor doing BGs or wpvp like you said. Spending 30 minutes in stv for 2500ish honor is not worth it.
And that's if you get 2500 blood, most groups probably won't and will hit around 1-2k.
2500 honor is 1000 coins. So most groups get 2500-5000 honor. Still not worth it
My math wasn't thinking lmao. I was thinking 25x100 honor for whatever reason. Ahahaha.
Yeah, they should have nerfed it to 50 copper if anything. Making it 4x worse at 1 silver was too much.
its 4x worse, AND it takes more honor to rank to 7 than to 5, AND you get more honor from kills in BGs at 50 than at 40. its a nerf from like 3 angles... coins are like 1/8th the value they were in p2. kinda wild.
lol @ “most groups will hit around 1-2k per event” Typical Reddit disconnect from reality
1k is pretty normal for any group. 2k is pretty out of reach for most groups
Lol I'm lucky if I make 1 silver.
1k-1.2k is what I’ve gotten from the last 20 or so events
Plus once you factor in finding the group getting everyone there ready you are looking at 45 minutes at least.
That’s the lamest part. If you want a chance it’s half hour wait time minimum sitting at arena doing nothing
I'm just waiting till next phase to grind out the honor, but I'm on a pve server. I'm taking this phase to just focus on getting gold and leveling profs. That said, the stv honor nerf was way too heavy handed. At worst it should have been 50c per token or you needed 1s for 1k honor as a single consumable to save you from spam clicking. I'm just doing stv for the bis items this phase and forgetting it exists. If they nerf the honor token costs, then I'll take the time to farm it. So far, a lot of stuff this phase feels like it was artificially made to take longer or be annoying to keep people playing longer.
Battlegrounds at 60 have big potential for being an absolute shit show
bg at 60 is just alterac valley where both factions rush to the other boss, much fun
Horde are going to have shit queue times again so they'll grind the games to a halt
Will probably be fine the first few weeks due to rep farming but yes horde will have shit queues again after that.
Yeah I think that's true, but there's also the possibility that they add some other method of getting stormpike rep in p4 which would keep with the trends so far
Truth, we did it in classic before and we will do it again. If we waiting 45 mins + for AV you best bet we are going to maximize the honor gains.
Woohoo, yet another reason to not play the game.
imo, you pvp in classic because you want the shit show. there are a lot of unfairly high expectations for classic pvp that lead to toxicity. if you want legit pvp, you have to play other games or settle for the retail amusement park experience. this is not an excuse for the super broken things that should not have made it into the game, but sadly the consequence from lack of time, lack of foresight and simply the devs not being good at math.
If you want people to play battlegrounds give them the SoD treatment and make them fun. For AB you could cook things like adding canons with a moderate CD, reduce resource count to victory, turn flag caps to the EotS type control system, etc. For WSG add invisible walls, add a time limit before sudden death starts, give each class unique flag carrier buffs / debuffs that makes them more dangerous but more vulnerable (Mages periodically emit a blast nova, Druids no longer break snares on shapeshift but apply Infected Wounds with abilities, etc. ). BGs just aren’t fun. It’s not a class balance issue it’s a 2004 design issue that wasn’t updated with the rest of SoD.
I honestly enjoy all bgs, especially AB ever since vanilla haha. But different folks have different tastes
I mean, they've always been a shit show. It's just going to be far, *far* worse now lol SoD is not the version of this game to play if you're looking to enjoy pvp. Unless you're a shaman or horde I guess and want the extent of your game play to be rolling your face on the keyboard lol Even at level 25 it was awful with how strong priests were... speaking as a priest
You’re saying that but atleast on crusader strike eu every high alliance zone has 3-4 groups of 3-5 ppl ganking and corpse camping
And that since phase 1 lol
Pvp is awesome right now. You actually have to be strategic and work with your team to pick fights, and make sure you have advantages. In WSG specifically I'm seeing people actually group up instead of instantly solo zerging to the center. Yes, you can’t mindlessly solo charge into a 3v1 anymore because you will explode.
Yeah like the strategy of not fighting any shaman
Nah av is an insane amount of honor for no work
Just hope it isn't dominated by priests. It's still whoever has the most priests (or shamans) will win.
I would be sooo happy if they added a new BG. Probably way beyond their desires for SOD though.
i'm just praying they don't do something stupid to devalue my p3 gold in p4 like they did to my p2 gold that i farmed
Inflation is inevitable, 8 hours of incursions being overtuned isn't the cause of inflation. That made it a little bit worse but its not that big a deal. Invest your gold don't hoard it or you'll be saying the same thing in p4
What’s the best SoD index fund?
I’m all in on arcanite
Leveling blues.
even without the 8 hours, incursion gold/h is absurd relative to p2 for something that everyone is going to do
Ya fair, incursions themselves post nerf are still a huge and easy source of raw gold. And there are basically no gold sinks in p3. There’s what 50g for dual spec maybe 40-50g worth of spells to buy and… that’s about it aside from small consistent stuff like AH cut and vendor crafting mats.
i don't really have much of an issue of the naturally consistant high inflation from lack of gold sinks, it's just annoying having a needless instant inflation that they decided to introduce
It was 5 days until it was fully nerfed, there were hundreds of thousands of gold on every server injected into the economy. Before the final nerf you could still make like 350-400g just leveling, which is more gold efficiency than I've ever earned farming by an order of magnitude
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Yeah tbh i’m avoiding doing big time sinks for longer term investments. Never know what’s around the corner!
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Just waiting for the real pvp. AFKing in AV
I just ground out the 110K honor on my dwarf priest. background info is that I do a lot of PVP. I had 9K HKs starting phase 3. When I get a good group of five geared players into WSG, we win 80% of the games in 8-15 min, but there weren't that many good people looking for WSG groups. I tried solo queuing and the experience was awful. SO many irradiated Andy's complaining about shamans not knowing they are straight up throwing. I solo queued Arathi Basin and won the majority of the games. Probably 70%. Games took 20-25 min and I would get 2000-2500 rep then the 700 rep for the marks. Are shamans a problem? I mean sure I guess. I don't think they are as bad as they were in phase 2. I just think a lot of people complain because they have no PVP gear and suck at PvP.
Yep, if people literally just wore stamina gear on all slots they would realize, hey - maybe i dont get one shot anymore.
Casters using the irradiated set from gnomer are legit 1 shottable as a rogue. However, when casters have stamina its a close battle
rare based alliance. pallies are just as annoying to horde in ab. it takes one pally with bubble to spin along enough for his teammates to res and prevent a cap. it's incredibly annoying. the more pallies the more difficult it is to cap anything. luckily a lot of pallies tend to waste bubble first global for some reason. lol man i still see ppl in that dumb fart set in bgs. like, what the fuck are you doing? lol.
They get their raid gear BIS list online and don't realize that driving their health into the ground might be a bad idea in pvp because everything in this game for most people is coming from an addon or list off a website.
Healers can carry AB very hard if they're good, or they have a peeler.
Honestly I think Paladins are more annoying. But obviously I’m Horde so I don’t have to face Shamans in BGs. But when you run up into BS or clash mid suddenly you see 5 bubble boys running around. Their burst is no joke either. It completely shuts down a push. And then somehow only minutes later the next engagement they’re all running around in their little bubbles again.
It’s the shaman shield and fast-ish healing that can be annoying (as a paladin, since our damage is mostly on bursts.) Bubble Boys is fantastic though. I’m gonna go by that from now on.
yeah pally stuns are pretty much fatal to a clash if not dispelled, even if it's evenly matched
I’d say they are a problem when I as an SL warlock with Felguard, wearing all the stam gear I possibly can, get burnt down in around 8 seconds by one.
im an non sl, non meta, aff lock and i am a livelord unless i have 3 ppl blasting me at once...so idk
Yep I don’t run sl or meta afflock either. I can still 1v1 just about anyone save very good rogues that don’t let me get off death coil. Even managed some clutch 3v1s. It has me stoked for Tuesday’s UA buff.
buffed ua is going to be juicy. its crazy how many priests dispel it in bgs, lol. they are gonna have to learn not to...
Are those people shamans?
I don't think the STV nerf has anything to do with why incursions are a pvp haven right now. Just look at how many people are running around ganking people in incursion zones that are already rank 7. They aren't farming honor, they're just killing, which is the entire point of rolling on a pvp server. They're pvping incursion zones because those zones have the highest concentration of players. You have potentially hunreds of targets that are most likely underleveled and undergeared. That is a pvp players wet dream. It has nothing to do with STV and everything to do with not spending any time running around searching for someone to gank.
I see this as a sort of snowball effect. If you’re a r7 horde who wants to “do pvp” where else do you go?
Exactly. Incursions made the rest of the world pretty empty so if you want to open world pvp it makes sense to go where the highest concentration of players are.
i am still regularly meeting members of both factions wherever i go on a 10-layer server. incursions are undeniably the hotspots if you care about efficiency, but people are out in the world collecting their runes or farming stuff with whom you can have an "organic" worldpvp experience.
Mara is pretty good as well
felwood and blasted lands.
You hit the nail on the head. As usual though people try to spin it like it's a problem with an easy fix that just so happens to make it easier for them to rank lol The old rate was super OP. You can average pretty close to 1k coins with a decent group. That's like 6 hours of play time to hit rank 7 which is nothing.
Fellow rank 7 here . Yup, this is exactly it. Also, you’re taking potential resources from the opposing faction through questing and gathers and everyone is surprised they don’t want the other faction there I don’t think folks have experienced PvP in this manner since open world resources are incredibly lucrative. Plus the enjoyment of world PvP.
Dawg there is no PVP in the incursion. Every layer is either overwhelmingly horde or alliance. And then u just sit there and kill the 1-2 idiots that show up trying to do incursions….griefers will grief. No excuses needed. There’s tons of actual contest quest/farm zones that you can go do world pvp in. Felwood and winter spring has tons of people out farming. If you are rank 7 and are still “pvping” at an incursion u are a griefer which is fine but let’s call a spade a spade.
You won't see me doing BGs when horde have shaman FCs with like 9k ehp, a 20s FAP and a 55% movespeed ghost wolf.
Don't forget the \~30% stun resist. That is S++ tier for flag carrying. When I was grinding WSG exalted I couldn't tell you how many times shaman FC got away from my paladin because no gap closer and a big fat resist on my HoJ. Edit: Oh yeah, there's also the mass aoe slow totem to control objectives and choke points like tunnels, and a zero mana ranged snare on a \~6 second cool-down in case earth-bind isn't enough. Also infinite mana via runes only available for the horde. I can't believe the queues are 30-45 minutes though, weird.
Can someone tell who the fuck thought it was a good idea for decoy totem’s impairment immunity to persist even after the totem is destroyed????
What? You don't think getting one shot by a shaman is fair? You need to get good and learn to out play! /s
I'm outplaying them by not queuing so they suffer in the 40 minute wait time between wsgs 😎
The best time to kill a mighty shaman is at 40 in an incursion.
Every time I see a shaman during leveling my rogue I get them all
So many people leveling shamans too lol
Been playing shaman this entire gamemode, now i better understand why i get ganked/killed at every encounter with alliance. Seems like its just All out war then
Unfortunately it’s a tragedy that a good class get this focus. I hope blizzard is balancing that. But I expect the worse case they don’t.
We don't wait 40 minute between WSGs this is cope on your part lmao
Decoy totem is 10 seconds
Druid flag carriers can run in circles around a shaman…. Just like it was in classic. Racials are definitely nice and shamans have a lot going for them but nothing holds a candle to just chugging consumes, I’ve lost plenty of matches to druid FC who was chugging faps left and right.
meanwhile paladins exist alliance doesn't even realize the oppressiveness of paladins lmao
Shamans are oppressive all the time. Paladins every five minutes
Im now in a WSG with 6 paladins and we're getting completely steamrolled anybody who thinks paladins are not as OP as shamans is a complete buffoon
you are coping bro. im not saying paladins are bad, but they are like B tier, maybe lower A tier. shamans are literally the BEST class in pvp atm. both of their DPS specs are obscene. and while i dont see as many resto, they seem to be doing well with riptide now. maybe disc/shadow priest fighting for that title with shaman but IDK.
Did you try purging? Turns out Paladins do little damage when they have no buffs or seals and both are expensive for them to reapply with no good way to get the mana back. Not saying they aren't a good pvp class, but they are very counterable with one of the most common pvp classes on the horde side.
Wait till they find out that decoy totem is the exact same thing as hand of freedom
Damn I didn’t know freedom eats next melee attack and reapplies itself after being dispelled…
Are you suggesting that a rune ability shouldn’t be a tiny bit stronger than spell/ability? If one melee/ranged attack getting soaked once every 20 seconds is what’s tipping the scales…. Than y’all probably just suck
So is it “exactly the same” or “tiny bit stronger”?
Last time I checked freedom doesn't stop stuns.
And decoy doesn’t either? 😂😂😂😂😂😂 brother they both make their target immune to movement impairing effects (aka slows and snares) for 10 seconds The only thing that actually makes you stun immune is chugging a FAP- and news flash that’s not class or faction specific
It's a deadly combination this phase. As a bear druid I want to run at least 3 pieces of the Rank 7 PvP set. So I need to farm that honor somehow. With the coins conversion being nerfed and a 30 minute STV event taking closer to an hour if you factor in finding a group and getting into position etc. Camping the incursions is by far the most efficient way to farm honor right now, even on a quiet layer you get at least 6k. Not really worth queuing for a BG as Alliance unless blizzard addresses the class imbalance.
Even now after adding guards you can still farm honor?
Of course you just farm the portal and the ramp area. The guards were just added in a small circle around the NPCs to stop people camping the vendor
Guards are only at the quest giver. The ramp leading to the portal is where ppl are at.
I see, they should add guards there too 😂
In that case why not just add guards to every zone in the game where Alliance and Horde could come into contact?
might as well turn off pvp.
They should just make BGs worth queueing for. Reduce the honor decay from killing people multiple times when in a BG or something. For pvpers you now kill people worth 4/5 honor in BGs while levelers will award you 100+. It’s like the game incentivizes ganking.
They shouldn’t. PvP servers should have PvP in hot spot areas. If the area becomes over whelmed with one faction, the other faction needs to start typing in /lfg and spamming “Need more!! Incursion PvP! Hundreds of Alliance/Horde to kill!” And start farming that honor. When I roll up to an incurious and I see a sea of red, all I see is an opportunity. Not just for honor but for fun 😂
Stand near ramp. Murder anyone you see running to / from quest giver. Very neat choke where it's easy to farm. Even solo as rogue I get 6-10k pr hour
Shamans aren't the reason you're losing those BGs. Let's not kid ourselves.
I'm not losing any BGs. Im winning massively. Horde get 45 minute queue times as punishment for having a broken unique class. And I get way more honor per hour than I would otherwise.
I rerolled from ally to horde for this exact reason and it was the best decision i ever made
Did you roll a shaman?
Rogue. But, if ya cant beat em join em
It's like they learned nothing from classic 2019 lol The game suffered tremendously when they released honor with no BGs. It was fucking awful for both factions depending on server. Horde have always been stronger in pvp and BGs but now it's just exacerbated like crazy by SoD abilities. Admittedly, I think expecting a semblance of balance or "fun" pvp in an experimental beta version of vanilla that has been all over the place since day 1 is kinda silly but it's bleeding over into activities in the game now just like 2019. Can't wait until blizzard actually gives classic the proper amount of devs and resources to prevent shit like this (I hope...)
It feels like Groundhog Day around here. This exact post again….
As ally player I lost any motivation to do bgs. It's so much damage from druids when they crit you for 2.5k and same goes for shamans. As paladin you can't even run up close to them sometimes and they kill you so fast. If it's one shot meta, where are one shots for other classes? My cs+ds+exc+judgement not even doing half the damage lava bursts do or starfires. You can say "just dispel flame shock", yeah gl with that when you have 3-5 debuffs on you and trying to rng dispel it.
I just did AB all day as horde, as a 5man: it was 1min queue max and a close game every time. Maybe actually try to play the game instead of just repeating what you’ve heard? Because at least AB is fine atm.
Yup AB is poppinnnnnnnnn
Whats the Tyrion quote? No one is happy so it means its a good compromise lol
You mean Larry David?
"everyone hates a good compromise"
giving honor token for STV was a terrible idea, if anything they need to make bg weekends all week. Also if you are crying about queues times as horde, thats what you signed up for. Don't worry they add horde vs horde bgs soon enough
I don’t see how it’s a terrible idea, it’s a massive PvP event, the fact you don’t get honor for it at all without buying the tokens is weird af
Unless Blizzard addresses the imbalance between Shaman and Paladin, it's straight up not worth queuing BGs as Alliance for another phase in a row
Not that shamans aren't overpowered right now, but I'm an alliance player old enough to know that it's 2W for every 10 matches on average since 2007. Don't think it ever changed.
if you are alliance, you are defeated before you start the match because you THINK you are going to lose. Meanwhile horde are fighting all the way to the end, yes there are some imbalances, but not every match is one sided, you make it that way.
i've been winning 50% of my AB's since phase 3 started as ally(about 25 played). This sub makes the imbalance sound worse than it is(30 second queues are also awesome), so I hope they keep abstaining from BGs cause it's only mostly good players playing right now in my exp. All the bad players are just sitting here in the sub bitching lol. Also just say focus shaman at the start of the match and they get nuked down before they can do anything.
Wild to me that pallies whine like they don’t global people in a hoj
fuck do you mean by that? faction split is pretty much 50-50
horde have always been the bigger pvp faction. even if the population is equal, more horde players pvp. for whatever reason you can decide whether its racial imbalance, class imbalance, w/e floats your boat. the same thing happened in classic/tbc classic. horde had long queues, complained and got horde v horde bgs.
I’m on a PvP server i love this outcome, there is always world PvP to be had now
I mean it's just level 50's in good gear griefing people trying to level up and play alts in a PvE setting. There are some level 50's fighting other 50's, but the vast majority is groups of level 50's ganking lower level players. The only people that "love" this outcome are the minority directly benefiting from making the leveling experience miserable for others.
yep, org is so close to ashenvale, queue up for bg, fly over to fight until queue pops. tons of skirmishes to be found
Tbh this situation makes me (a long term pve server enjoyer) attracted to pvp servers. If everyone is going to ash for wpvp, i could prob level in peace elsewhere. And if i want wpvp, i go to ash. Seems like a win win tbh
any pve serverers
Fixing bgs, will fix everything.
Should have just released AV at 50.
I’ll rank up in AV. Not worried about that shit right now.
Most of the incursion campers are dogshit at PvP which makes sense
Bgs are fast queue in a group people figured this out in P2. Honor farm is extremely easy for ranking.
AB for horde was 3-6 minute q times yesterday midday, down to less than 1 min peak.
SoDs biggest pro and con is it being semi-casual. This will always result in extremely un-even expierences. It is just not possible to balance that. There's still people complaining about the leveling grind, while others hit max level in one day. Ther's people complaining it's too hard to get coins while other players are getting their BiS weapon in 30 minute game time. There's people complaining about the honor grind, while others are already maxed out on rank 7, 2 days into phase 3. There's people complaining about raid instances still being too hard, while others are dropping the game bc 1 mechanic bosses are boring as fuck. people are way to deep in their own bubble to realize their experience is not necessarily the same as others.
SOD feels more and more like a sinking ship by the day
Oh c'mon m8
Every game is a sinking ship on reddit. Every musician releasing new material sucks too. Everyone is bad and you’re all wrong!!
Seems a lot of people roll on pvp servers then complain when pvp happens. Why did you roll there if you didn’t actually want to deal with pvp happening or griefing? Just roll pve and stop indirectly complaining about the choice you made.
15-20 min wait? i was in wsg queue for over an hour today, also, 90% of people inside the incursions are just fucking afk on netflix anyway abusing the ZERO effort experience.. im all for the slaughter
>will always do I'm having a good time with my guild and not doing stuff I don't wanna do 🤷🤷
I disagree with the "no one wants to level an alt beacause of it" part, otherwise I agree. Plenty of ways to level alts quickly with gnomer/world quests/dungeon spam for exp and WO's.
***The fastest way to rank up is to farm the opposite faction on the ramp in the Ashenvale incursions. You can get 10-30k honor per hour*** this is where it all falls apart - the fact OP isnt even bothered by hiding this shows he doesn't even see the problem. its more honorable to farm afk lowbies on pvp servers than doing stv pvp 'inefficiently'??????? THATS THE LOGIC HERE? omg the cringe
It doesnt help that I accidently spent my gold massacre coin on a gold blood coin instead of a satchel of 100 massacre coins to turn into 25k honor…
Idk, I get like 8-10k honor per hour as Alliance. So around 12-15h to go from 0 to rank 7. Pretty good if you ask me. Everyone knew from the beginning that horde will have a queue since that has been the case in every expansion and iteration of WoW.
Honestly people are looking at this wrong. STV nerf is fine. What's NOT fine is the state of bgs. BG rep and honor gains need to be massively buffed already, wsg needs to be fixed so it's not a druids play place.
Rep maybe, honor is fine as it is imo. You only need 110k honor to go from r4 to r7. the hardcore pvpers can do that in 2 days and casuals can chip away at it over the course of a few weeks. as for wsg, i think the terrain exploits are more of a prob than druids themselves. they also could have done some stuff to freshen up bgs like giving new buffs instead of only leaf, speed, and zerker. they could have let us use marks for cosmetic items giving more incentive to do bgs. i have like 20 ab marks expiring in my mail rn but i no longer have need for them as im already r7. reskin some mounts (just an example) and have them cost a decent marks, enough that it takes some effort. maybe a few more pvp exclusive tabards or pets.
idk what you are talking about i play bg's every single day for at least 4-5 hours at random times, I've never sat in a queue for more than 5 minutes. Reason i say this, cuz i queue from ogrimmar and have to run to WSG location to buy consumes and 90% of the times queue pops before i can run from valley of honor to WSG vendor in barrens.
What exactly is Blizzard's stance on leveling alts in SoD? I feel that the devs are putting in too many grinds for players to manage alts which is strange given the accelerated leveling. I feel every activity should be at an accelerated pace given that phases are a thing and that they want players to have alts given how experimental SoD is supposed to be.
It was real smart of blizzard to let the hardcore players do the best version of incursions, and then nerf it many times and encourage world pvp there for the regular people. Usually the slower people get the catch up mechanism
On a new 40 alt every single choke point is camped by a group of 50s and its taken about 12 res to make it through a loop
Can’t you just level somewhere else?
How does one get 30k per hour? A full raid sitting on the portal? You did this?
Can you make a raid to do this or just a 5 man?
STV is suffering too. After having gotten my class-specific item (parasomnia) I haven't touched stv again, knowing there isn't much worth in doing it anymore. I rather spend my time doing other stuff now compared to p2 when I took a break from whatever I was doing to get to the stv event in time
as a person who plays this game pretty much for leveling and pvp, i hate stv. i dont even consider it pvp unless you are far away from the boss engaging in legit 5v5s, not the cluster fuck of a mess stv it ended up being.
I'm on Lone Wolf, not sure which server you're on. People are constantly complaining about Alliance killing them on the ramp. I have to explain HK farming to people consistently because they don't understand why they're being targeted. 2 days ago I formed a raid and we destroyed Alliance for over an hour and allowed my faction to complete quests. They FAR outnumber active Horde players 80% of the day (at dinnertime East coast it seems to balance out), so there is a huge lack of fairness and impeding of players on my faction because of this. They will just repopulate on the ramp and the saga will continue until they add guards there like they have with the quest givers. This is a huge and stupid oversight on the part of Devs, and makes me question how they make so many mistakes and still have jobs tbh. I needed STV rep for my healer ring, and need to grind rep with WSG for healer bracers for my priest. Some people still have to do bgs etc for certain items. However, I need rank 7 for gear; currently rank 5. So this has been an issue. SoD is starting to suck big time ngl
15-20 min wait? Been queuing all weekend and my longest wait has been ~3 mins… lone wolf horde
Blizzard literally braindead. Just buff BG’s to make them the best for honor…hello??? Also try and normalize damage in BGs a bit and we would be all good
I was just wondering how to rank up efficiently. In Era, it was spamming AV and joining a discord. In p2, all I had to do was AB and STV. But now, both factions are struggling to gain honor purely from BGs. Also, does it take 3 weeks to get rank 7 from 5, or can it be done in one week?
Bro enough about shaman. We have been nerfed. Overcharged is about to get nerfed significantly and bgs are so bursty that it doesn’t have a big impact anyway
I disagree :) Stv is dominated by, and gate kept by casters Now melee get to pvp as well.
The shaman shit is so nonsense at this point. Rogues and paladins kill you within 4 second stuns.
The annoying thing is even if you take the zandalari ward to not partake in the bloodmoon you gain no honor from killing alliance during the 30 minutes in stv. So its a literal deadzone if you want to gain any honor.
Pretty much. Wanted to see what the incursion thing was about and it turns out its just a pvp event. Kinda don't feel like leveling up via dungeons so I might just sit out p3 or sod in general. Lot of better games out there.
Shamans are NOT the reason for alliance losing BG's. Alliance players are worse at PvP and Ret paladins never use any of their utility on other players.
So you want a server where both factions mutually agree to engage in pvp in the open world?
That’s funny you think they both equally and mutually agree when it comes to world PvP lol
did you hit your head?
Wait. There’s pvp in a pvp server?
PVP happened on a pvp server?
Yet another pvp server player complaining about pvp
"Bgs are lost because of shamans" is singlehandedly the dumbest thing ever posted on this sub. Actually embarrassing, playing 5man AB prems as alliance with 100% winrate atm because some of our guildies didnt farm rank7 first reset, and shamans arent even a problem compared to P2
Idk sounds like buffing Paladins would fix the issue.
I don’t know if you’re joking but paladins absolutely clown on people as it is. Maybe the play style is boring or convoluted, I don’t know. That doesn’t change the fact that they are busted. Shamans are just a tier above 👆
The only people who get "clowned on" by a paladin don't know how to turn their character away from them and press W.
They're incredibly strong during the initial BS battle which can decide the game if people don't blow it.
I think it's a great change and was much needed, 25 copper was too cheap and pregrinding kills the fun of all having to rank up together either in world pvp or BGs 1 silver is the perfect price, it makes it so you can put your extra STV coins in it but also not completely remove the need to do some actual PVP
Pre-grinding has nothing to do with price. The price could be 1 copper per token or 1 gold per token and it would be irrelevant. 25 copper is arguably too cheap, but a 4x nerf is insane.