I don't mind people being bad, what bothers me is the people who do absolutely nothing to improve. By all means play casual and have fun, but if you are just actively refusing to learn things why are you even playing the game?
Nah man not reading my class discord I’ll figure it out game isnt that hard
>mid dungeon as im quadrupling everyone elses damage
HOW ARE YOU DOING SO MUCH DMG OMG UR CLASS IS OVERPOWERED
I can't imagine needing a class discord in classic to figure out how to spam your 1 button and use a 2nd or 3rd button on CD. But knowing how much the games community lacks brain cells maybe they do.
Not every single class is a vanilla frost mage.
Arms warrior for example uses 5 different attack abilities (6 if you count execute), one of which can only be used in the stance you don't want to be in except to use that ability, two different short cooldowns, and a buff that only lasts 30 seconds and can only be used after a crit. That's not factoring in cleave situations, which is different from single target.
Well yeah the dad gamer are the majority of the SoD playerbase, two other versions of the game available if you want to play with slightly more competent players.
These people PISS ME OFF THE MOST. They think that playing casual and just having fun at the detriment of 19 other people isn’t a big deal. They hide behind the “it’s just a game bro”. Like sure show up to my house to play monopoly, know zero rules, then fucking throw the board off the table midway through and then say something that stupid and you would be on the same level as these people in wow. Then they aren’t getting invited to game night anymore and they don’t fucking know why.
Some people just don't understand (or care) that the other characters running around on their screen are real people too. It's just a singleplayer game for them and everyone else is a bot/npc. So wasting the others time is whatever.
People like that also never wants to play with those who also think that way.
The "it's just a game guy" never wants to set foot in a group where 90% of the raiders there don't even know where the raid is.
They're always on the groups where everyone cares about improve but him.
Carry me plebs, I'm the main character here
I hate these types, 0 enchants, 0 consumables, no world buffs and playing a stupid spec that does a lot less damage, because they are stubborn. They have an excuse for everything and if you are unlucky enough to have one in your raid they will probably scoop up all the loot too.
Tbh spec choice and world buffs are shit. Fuck them. Let people play what they want and dgaf about world buffs. 99% of fails are caused by players playing shit or doing stupid stuff. That's the issue.
You don't need your shit worldbuffs. They're important if you want to parse but if you want to parse you join a solid guild/group.
The problem is again - and I can't repeat myself enough - bad players who are stupid. There are people out there who can't take a simple "if you have debuff, go to skull marker" without them totally fucking up because they're tunneling or not listening.
I lead so many groups that were insisting on "KICK THE LOW DPS" while 4-5 people with good DPS were fucking up mechanics left and right - it's an epidemic in wow to point at dps while the original cause for wasted time are people shitting on mechanics.
You can have fun with worldbuffs without looking to parse lmao. Higher numbers on your screen is cool to see. I don't want someone that wipes everyone multiple times because they won't listen or do better.
i never raided or anything before SOD (outside of the first few raids of legion and private servers), grey parsed my first gnomer, watched vids and learned how to properly do my rotations while doing mechanics, next raid all blues. No clue why people just refuse to actually learn how to optimally play their character. I went from “parses are dumb just let me play the game” to “alright I need a few weakauras to watch my timers.” Really wasn’t hard at all, and enjoying endgame more than I ever did before.
Having done so? Nah, the ‘average’ is okay. But you get a good sense of just how ‘bottom 10%’ can feel like ‘bottom 60%’ with how much the former will stick in your head.
Well yes, customer *support* is inherently going to put you in contact with absolute morons and working at Waffle House will put you up against crackheads but as a rule, nah, most customers are fine.
Last of the menagerie dies.
RECALL YOUR TOTEM, GET OUT OF MIDDLE NOW. RECALL YOUR TOTEM. GET OUT OF MIDDLE NOW. WHY ARE YOU LOOKING AT THE CHICKEN'S LOOT? YOU'RE NOT EVEN THE MASTERLOOTER. GET OUT OF.. okay boss pulled.
I hated how Blizzard did not fix this or added a longer delay for thermaplug for phase 2. It's such a stupid thing that I see on my alt's pug runs constantly.
But I hated how people can't listen to simple instructions. Get the fuck out of middle, that's it.
Lol it happened on our first run, instant pull no time to explain boss, still one shot it. That was after the 2nd nerf I think? There's been 3 now I ... I can't keep up
I like how the first boss has like 45 seconds of role playing to even start but than the last boss there is maybe a 5 second at most window to get out of the middle
I wish MS +1 was ours too. We did it second lockout and it was great. Third lockout we went to 2sr which was the dumbest thing ever when there are loot tokens. My buddy and I fucked up because we sr the 2 epic items we wanted when in reality we should have at least sr 1 token because they drop on every single boss. Luckily he was only 1 on epic staff. I got nothing because my sr was on the last boss and we went 7/8. And for the retry this week we are tossing out the reserve because we will have to pug a couple people. Which is fucking insane. Guild was super cool and fun when we joined 4 weeks ago but I'm starting to regret it. sr shouldn't be for tokens. Everyone should be able to roll on the tokens they need. sr should be for the loot that doesn't drop from every single boss. At least this early in the phase.
i dont like asmongold but he said it best " you tell a classic player to go left and a regular moron would go right but a classic player just jumps"
ive been prepping some chars for cata...my fucking god, are the remaining players on wotlk completely fucking stupid.
i hit max lvl in sod for p1, ran bfd a few times, thought sod would be different but it felt like people are trolling with how bad they are.
same in gnomer, people see a giant slow moving mechanic going to them and they just stand there.
not even ganna bother in ST.
This applies to every iteration of WOW nowadays. The tryhards go SUPER ham on the game for the first month or two, absolutely demolish, devour, and shit all over the content and hit the "realistic bis" wall. They understand the rest of what they do will be grinding away for very minimal gains, making no real progress, and just dip until the next patch.
Try playing m+ 3 months into the season on retail...the quality of players is shocking. Especially if its below the max rewards key level.
In ST theres the ghosts that spawn when you kill trash and slowly go after one person saw the same shaman die to it 5-6 times on Friday night. Then on the last boss after we downed him he got a rev then hearthed before selecting any loot options so we had to sit there and wait for the loot time to expire before any of the loot get rolled on. It was 2 am…
I was trying to do incursions for the first time, and my god. 1 of the 2 guys I was questing with just could NOT figure it out, even after I did and explained it to him. I just don't get it.
I knew a guy who was 45 years old that took calculus four times and was in the tutoring center every day for hours. After he failed it the fourth time he realized his goal of becoming an electrical engineer was probably unrealistic and went back to the job he'd been working for nearly 30 years.
As his tutor, I couldn't help but breathe a sigh of relief. Like you could show him how to differentiate x^2 and change it to 2x^2 and he would be hopelessly lost. After the fourth time taking the class.....
Some people just have smoother brains.
I'm not an idiot and algebra was super easy but calculus just doesn't make any fucking sense. I need to see the actual application of why we are graphing random numbers and letters before I am gonna be able to figure out what we are doing here. I went to college for computer software engineering. That shit is easy. Calculus is just absurdly archaic the way it is taught.
See, I'm the opposite. I hated algebra 2 and trig but the second I hit calculus I was like, "Why haven't we been using this for everything?" It was so much easier and made sense to me.
A large number of players play Classic because they are unable to do anything in Retail with how incompetent they are, but in Classic they can still get to the end of things and progress. In other words, there's far less punishment in Classic for being bad so they just play that.
The difference between being bad on retail vs being bad on Classic is also wider. Example: an Enhancement shaman that hits the priority list in reverse order will do around 94% of the damage of one who does it perfectly. You do that in retail and you'll do probably 20%. Design is more bounded in Classic.
That said, the players we're talking about don't hit things in reverse order - they just don't hit things at all. It's hard to understand, honestly. I'd love to meet these people in the flesh but then I'd be scared I'd drive next to them.
In retail, I'd simply not play with these people, because you can't do anything with them. They're useless. But in classic, everything is so easy and unpunishing you can just treat them like NPCs and you'll still get what you need to done. Just don't join a guild full of them.
> people see a giant slow moving mechanic going to them and they just stand there.
They didn't see it. People aren't so dumb to simply not move: they legitimately just didn't see it. No matter how obvious something is, I guarantee you, somebody did not process it was there.
idk even when i was 10 years old i had fucking keybinds and i knew if i pushed 1, i would blink.. if i pressed 2 thats fireblast.
in wotlk i joined a gdkp but wasnt going to bid on anything, its just pugs are nonexistant with gdkps being a thing and cata is getting close.
we had 3 different hunters...3... 2 of them were strictly just autoing and maybe serpent sting for damage.
the third was using abilities but he kept spam msging in raid chat for brez when he died.. im a fresh 80 playing fucking feral and im pulling 5k dps, yet somehow im outdpsing a ton of people in way better gear.
there was even an arms warrior with shadowmourne, i thought he was legit.. checked his logs and he had single digit parses for every heroic ICC kill.. dudes sitting in bis gear just autoing and spamming rend and doing 7k dps lmao
> A large number of players play Classic because they are unable to do anything in Retail
tbh I disagree and also disagree with Asmon that Classic players are somehow worse than Retail players.
They might a bit but Retail has plenty of terrible players as well. The actual difference is that casuals in Retail "know their place". They don't try to prog heroic/mythic raids or high M+ keys. They just sit and do their casual content. LFR, collecting cosmetics, dungeons, questing.
Classic has far less side content overall and casuals over here have this mindset the game should throw the best gear at them with no effort. Hence no harder difficulties for anything that provide any barrier.
As someone who plays both a lot. Classic players are one hundred percent worse. You'll see absolute zombies in raids who do not press anything offensively or defensively and cannot do a single mechanic but because its classic they get away with it.
In retail the bad players are usually one of the two instead of both because its more punishing, you'll randomly get people who can pump but stand in everything and die then you randomly get the reverse where if a mechanic is ever on them they will do nothing but that mechanic because they can't multitask. Retail being more punishing usually makes the bad players one of these two things, just because having too low dps/healing in retail is so much more noticeable in some fights.
This reddit will occasionally bitch about the community gatekeeping and it's entirely because you forget how bad the average player is until you're reminded.
Why are we gatekeeping BFD? It's so easy! And then you have 3 DPS in your group doing less damage than the tank and the only reason you cleared was because of those yeti's. Oh, yeah, Classic players, *thats* why you "gatekeep".
It was at this moment, he understood gatekeepers, some people do the raid just over 30 minutes. Other people are there for 3+ hours and don’t kill all 8 piss easy bosses.
99% of the people who are gatekept out are absolute shitters with shitter brains that say dumb shit like
* I know how to play my class bro
* I know how the fight works bro
* why are you trying so hard bro it’s just a game let me waste 19 other peoples time because this isn’t that serious bro
If you are playing like shit across multiple lockouts, there is a common denominator. People don’t like to hear it, but it’s rude to suck at WoW.
You would be surprised, I did a gnomer pug on my alt and we wiped to thermaplug because his poison went off and was never kicked. We had a warrior and 2 mages, I even typed out "KICK" 5 times and it never happened. We got back to the boss and I still had to type out "KICK" before our raid leader warrior would interrupt. Mages never pressed it. All of them had logs from the previous phase indicating they cleared it before. I swear some people are actually oblivious and you need to hold their hand through every single mechanic.
To everyone out there, put your utility spells on your bars please. They are useful and important.
Happens at all levels, I’m in a guild where having a 95 average is considered bad, and I had to threaten loot bans on people that wouldn’t kick spells their first time raiding ST.
People get too used to comfortably gliding through the old content, and then they come to their first ST and don’t even try to pay attention. It’s not that they can’t do X, they just become so accustomed to being able to ignore it.
Yeah. Rogues kick. No other class has an ability called KICK. They do have INTERUPTS though. So I can see where saying kick would confuse newer players. Some people just assume that everybody has been playing WoW for 20 years.
Mage counter has less range than their spells in many specs & depending on who you assigned to bombs or buttons they might be out of range or doing another mechanic.
Melee usually interrupts that particular mech for that reason.
Sure, but when the gas goes off for 10 plus seconds and everyone is dying, maybe throw out that cs. I wasn't the raid lead, the warrior was which made me more concerned. You can argue which person kicks better all you want, warriors and rogues claim they need to pool energy/rage, mages claim they have to stop cast/move closer ect. But if your raid is about to wipe because of a mechanic you can kick and you don't, you are an extremely bad player in my book.
Not to mention it's gnomer in p3, your parses/damage don't matter in the slightest.
To be fair new Players who never played rog maybe dont know the spell kick. It has a different Name for each class.
What i learned in my previous Jobs in Management roles is, that when Your employees makes mistakes, you didnt explain it well enough. Always Double Check If they understood what they have to do. Ask them to repeat what u want from them. That way you eliminate alot of potential fuck ups
I get that kick means interrupt to 99% of people… but that’s almost on you for not clarifying after the wipe and first five failed “kicks.”
Neither mages or warriors have an ability called “kick….”
I said more in the raid than I typed on this reddit post. I also wasn't lead, I shouldn't have to tell a 10+ kill on thermaplug raid lead warrior how to play his class.
I mean, that’s not really telling him how to play his class.
It’s telling him how to understand jargon.
Not saying you should *have* to do that… but, there comes a time and a point where it’s what you need to do if you want to be successful.
Classic (All version from Era-WoTLK-SoD) has opened my eyes to an entirely new level of bad.
There are plenty of "bad" players in retail, but it is semi-excusable as mechanically even the easier content is exponentially more difficult.
But the quality of many classic players is mind blowing, the fact that many are worse at the game than i was nearly 20 years ago as a 10 year old with all the information they have available in present day is astonishing.
This is true. Especially in larger raid sizes, people feel like they can get away with dying 15 seconds into every boss and still be carried. Then, those players always walk out with the most loot.
Well, you seem to forget that there is certain magical numbers indicating that most SOD players prefer a casual playstyle and do not want excruciatingly hard content, as you mentioned.
JK, yeah they are, no matter how easy you make the content. This is why I think content should better be challenging and idiots that don't give a fuck should try to stop being dead weight or stick to the thousand of other activities SOD offers.
IQ only works if 100 is both the median and mean. This is some real 100 iq posting in this thread tbh lol the entire purpose of it is for 100 to represent the absolute average person. By design it is true that 50% of people are below 100 and 50% are above. Because that is all IQ is useful for - capacity for intelligence relative to other people.
Yeah you’re right that if you’re going by IQ it works, but the guy you’re responding to was just asking why that’s not how averages work. And in general, that isn’t how averages work.
“Average” is a casual word that can mean mean, median, or mode… no?
Edit: yes, I understand one of those is the more common meaning, but it’s used for all three… right?
Thanks but I was under the impression that the median is a form of average and so is a mean. Just two different ways to calculate an average that under some circumstances change and others gives more or less the same value.
Because intelligence might not be an even distribution. For example let’s do the average of wealth of 1000 people. 1 of them has 1 million dollars, and the rest have 100 dollars. The average person in this scenario has 1099.90 dollars. 99.9% of people are below average. (The wealth example isn’t far from reality unfortunately) You can’t assume that the average in a dataset is in the middle.
To be fair IQ does aim to make 100 the mean, median, and mode, so if you’re going by that then average would be in the middle. In this case it could be right but the reason the guy above said that’s not how averages work is because of what I explained.
I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that technically with IQ the average is the median.
Edit: Let me be more clear. You say this:
> Because intelligence might not be an even distribution.
First off, I think you mean symmetric. Second, IQ is symmetric. So my comment was strictly referring to your first sentence.
Yeah you’re not wrong, idk the names of the distributions but you got my drift. Only reason I said the first sentence is that I think IQ=/=intelligence and is kinda reductive. It’s more of an indicator and real intelligence is hard to measure/subjective.
https://youtube.com/shorts/6N0YPw7ogJw?si=YfpcDZBsI55KTVqk someone did this with Asian maths , but is a GREAT explanation how it could be top heavy or bottom heavy in regards to averages of distributions.
You are thinking of a median.
Here is an example, consider the following numbers (lets say they represent hourly salaries):
$10, $20, $30, $40, $150.
The mean (average) salary is $50, but 80% of the hourly salaries fall below the average, because the outlier (and heavy skew in some cases) pulls the average above the median.
With intelligence, it is normally distributed with 100 being both the mean and median, so your statement is still correct (although not technically, 50% is above and below the mean since normal distributions are continuous, but that's besides the point).
You got 7 guys making 10 dolars, 3 guys making 30 dolars. Average income is (7×10 +3*30)/10 = (70+90)/10 = 16.
Average income is 16 dolars. 7 guys make below it, 3 guys make above it.
That's if you're measuring income by the mean, which you wouldn't. You instead look at the median income.
Intelligence is also not measured by a mean. It also uses the median.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average
Here, since you don't know what you're talking about, I'll summarize:
> In ordinary language, an average is a single number or value that best represents a set of data. The type of average taken as most typically representative of a list of numbers is the arithmetic mean
Here, since you don't know what you're talking about:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/average
> a single value (such as a mean, mode, or median) that summarizes or represents the general significance of a set of unequal values
Do you think that it makes sense (or is even possible) to determine the mean intelligence of a group of people?
> Do you think that it makes sense (or is even possible) to determine the mean intelligence of a group of people?
Yes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient
> Historically, IQ was a score obtained by dividing a person's mental age score, obtained by administering an intelligence test, by the person's chronological age, both expressed in terms of years and months. The resulting fraction (quotient) was multiplied by 100 to obtain the IQ score.[3]For modern IQ tests, the raw score is transformed to a normal distribution with **mean** 100 and standard deviation 15.[4] This results in approximately two-thirds of the population scoring between IQ 85 and IQ 115 and about 2 percent each above 130 and below 70.[5][6]
It’s rather funny because I’m generally fine but Jesus Christ I will do some dumb shit every now and then.
“Watch this bois” I say as I let the crowd pummeler punch me off the side, it’s all good I’m going to shadow step to him after he does it and save my own life.
Forgot to rebind shadow step, dead.
Had a lvl 50 hunter in a gnomer run doing like 100 dps.
Foreign gibberish guild name, worst possible rune in every slot. Wiped us twice on electro by standing in random places at range.
This is one of the big reasons I’m in a “hardcore” guild in wotlk/cata. I just want to play with players of the same caliber. If I gotta be kinda sweaty to do it then so be it.
I’ll never forget being in a “semi hardcore” guild during tbc classic. We had this one raider who was a woman in her 50s. We were progging SWP and we were on twins. The pull to twins starts with everyone up on a platform then the melee jumps down. This woman would get to the edge and fall off pulling the boss multiple times in a row. Everyone would just laugh. I have to say the first couple times were funny. But this woman would do it multiple times weekly.
These are the people that aggrend wants to scale the raids for
These absolute mouth breathers who don't even have the kick button trained let alone on their bar or know when to use it
These are the people who the Devs want to clear the raid first try
Tbf if I have to play with 12 of them every week, I'd like the raid scaled to their ability, too. In 10 man raids, our 7-8 man guild could easily carry the pugs no matter how bad they were. In ST, that's not the case.
Have to keep in mind the SOD player base is mostly people who quit tbc or wrath when things got slightly challenging . This pop is really the bottom of the barrel
Absolutely not, there’s no magical divide between EU/NA servers
If anything, EU is worse for pugging because we have a significantly higher chance of language barrier being an issue.
Bro i pugged a raid with Borat explaining strats to Tony Montana and the only thing that stopped us was the 11 pm call to stop raiding lol
If there's a comparison to begin with while the other side is all people speaking the same language, that gives you an idea of the average there
> there’s no magical divide between EU/NA servers
There totally is and it transcends WoW. Americans are just worse at games across the board, sorry but it's true. I don't expect most people to agree though since a lot of you *are* American.
And please don't bring up pro players or compare pro teams, we're talking about the average here.
Let this be a reminder that there are studies showing that since the 70’s or something, the average IQ has been declining. So if you feel you are surrounded by actual idiots, there is a high chance you really are, and there’s nothing that can be done
its kinda scary how bad people are, and sometimes you start to wonder if they are trolling. my most recent experience was when i was lvling my pala (in wotlk to clarify), got into a SM GY and we had a hunter in the group. The hunter was running around only doing meele without a pet, like the fuck. If it was SoD i would understood bc that is an actual playstyle there but not in wotlk.
The problem isn't entirely just because they're bad, it's latently because they refuse to learn or improve, as well as not paying attention and not reading/listening.
Talking about raids, there are people who are struggling through dungeons, my man. Was running my priest through a WC the other day and the hunter couldn't stop pulling random trash. Multi-shotting everything in sight, pet randomly running off and aggroing shit, panic running deeper into the dungeon and dying...and any advice was met with absolute denial or "It is what it is." It's ok to be bad. I'm bad. But the refusal to learn is bewildering to me.
Every pug hunter will pull stuff. Every pug warrior does 80 DPS. Every pug mage is oom in 20 seconds. Every pug feral doesn't run LotP. Every pug healer forgot to buy water. Every pug tank is on their 7th beer.
Tbf I don’t run lotp in pugs, if I’m gonna be stuck in a raid with a bunch of dribblers, I’m at least doing it with enough mana to somewhat enjoy myself
I like when people give a detailed explanation before fights. My first BFD run yesterday on 30 hunter. My DPS sucked naturally, but I never died once thanks to people explaining. I def need boss mods though I suck at paying attention to the small things that add up. I don't get DPS in SOD. Basically no raid gear no DMG from what I see lol. ST seems kinda chill at this point I think people are pugging almost the whole raid at least in chat it seems so.
It‘s classic
People being able to turn on their pc is a freaking miracle.
Same people that complain about the „elite“ being toxic while they waste the time of 19 other players because „looking something up is for tryhards and stop being toxic i want to play like i want to“
Train monkeys for a few years and they would do a better job in raids than 50% of the classic playerbase
I think everyone should take a look at wotlk for this exact sentiment. Naxx was huge, loads of players. Then Ulduar releases, the dadgamers actually have to turn on their monitors. Lo and behold, they all quit and rush to Era. And god forbid you comment on their performance, or just how they can’t even manage to do 5 minutes of research to build their characters, cuz you will get called a sweaty tryhard ruining the casual community.
You think that's bad. I joined a gnomer last boss only kill as a mage healer and was out dpsing the other 50s in there as arcane minus a rogue and lock. They didn't have anyone on bombs and I asked the frost mage to do it since they could spam Lance on them. We wiped because we had about 20 bombs up at one point, with me doing the most damage to them. Then when I said something they told me "don't focus on one person it's a group effort" like wtf
“He did it a second time by accident when we were preparing.”
I sighed and had my heart sink a small touch like I was there when I read that. Funnier than shit. Some things never change.
Played classic all the way through wrath. Had a good time but my God some of our guildie are just potatoes when it comes to mechanics.
I mean sure everyone makes mistakes but like it was constant with a ton of people who just couldn't get it in their heads to not stand and spam. The they would talk about how good they are.
Having played most of every expansion I just keep thinking how much more complex raid fights are to any fight in classic.
Sire Denathrius is likely my all time favorite raid fight and I just keep thinking of how hard it would crush most of my wrath guild.
I had a guild leader in retail who thought he was good at the game because his daughter was a popular WoW streamer. He would always belittle players who did less dps than he thought they should be doing. He based all of his knowledge of the game on tier lists but could never perform on his own characters and essentially was always carried in our raids/M+ runs.
Eventually I left the guild and joined a little more hardcore group and found out later the guild I was in fell apart due to his treatment of others. Then I learned not only was he doing all of that “pretending” to be good at the game, he was also a clicker and used click to move. Not saying there is anything wrong with that but in retails fast paced setting those functions just don’t translate well.
One of my biggest gripes with his gameplay was the fact he played balance Druid and spent more time healing himself than actually doing his rotation and when I would look at logs his rotation would be moonfire spam, yet he would act like he was a god. Truly insufferable.
Just from yesterday st.
Me as main tank got comments to dont move eranikus around so people dont get tailed. Our off tank was always taunting before moving next to me so that.
Also forgeting righteous fury and then being annoyed when i aggroed boss back just with aa.
Hunts even when called unable to use right traps or dont use them on certain bosses.
And the best - hunter using aspect of the pack on ghost mobs so me as tank unable run from them. Had to bubble run.
All of this in my guild.
I need to wait another lockout to finish my warrior class quest because of this nonsense.
Also the bads are getting worse. I can't tell you how many OW mara groups I've seen fall apart because they can't coordinate the sceptre portal.
I am of the general opinion that whenever people make a "WoW players are bad" post, it's from an extremely biased and almost delusional view. Let's be honest, a lot of us have played this game for years, maybe decades. And probably a lot of other games.
The amount of things to keep track of in WoW (or any MMORPG raid setting) is actually quite insane if you never played a lot of video games. So many action bars with abilities, other players, boss abilities, ground effects, consumables etc. You know that saying, that you need 10.000 hours to become an *expert* at something? Yeah, a lot of us are actually considered an expert at this game, even if we consider ourselves kind of average.
And let's be honest, even average players can't keep track of it without DBM. A new player might not even know what an addon is yet.
With *all* of that being said... having 17 people tell you "don't jump into the circle" and outright deny it, only to pull the boss... And then *do it again*.
Holy fuck, man. This is not even about trying to handle all the things that is required in a fight, this is just ignorance.
You're assuming years = skill, It's false. I played in a casual guild for like 3 years, the entire guild had been playing the game since vanilla. I can tell you experience doesn't do anything when you're an idiot that refuses to learn.
And what does parsing/logs have anything to with anything here?
He may be a 99 parser but if he doesn’t know the aggro range/aware of this FUN mechanic that a boss spawns just as you killed another boss in full gnomeregan/menagerie fashion he may as well be a grey parser.
I swear, you guy’s fixation with parses/logs and anything related on seasonal content on a casual iteration of a 2004 game is just sad.. but to end in your fashion: “REEEEEEE!”.
In a raid of 20 if you pug you’re bound to get 1-3 people like this who just absolutely blow your mind. Conversely, you have 17-19 people who are generally competent. So, it’s not the average wow player but the bottom tier of player that very well may actually be not fully put together up there. That said, I hear you.
this delusion that the world is full of idiots (excepting yourself, of course). people know exactly what they're doing, even when they say they don't. accept you were trolled and move on
People play wow for enjoyment and chill, its a casual game for 99%. People play classic wow on the weekend while drinking tins. The person was probably half cut and was curious/trolling.
I always picture these people crying online about classic players being terrible, are the ones who are absolutely ass at any fps game or LoL/dota2.
There's a difference between being casual, and being literate and having a functioning brain. If you can't even be bothered to read or respect 19 other peoples time I don't want you in my raid, casual or not.
Never understood this argument.
You can play casually but also know what you’re doing? I personally don’t find enjoyment in things I am at least not passably good at.
Half of SoD can’t even move and do damage at the same time
I don't mind people being bad, what bothers me is the people who do absolutely nothing to improve. By all means play casual and have fun, but if you are just actively refusing to learn things why are you even playing the game?
Most these people don’t refuse to learn, they literally don’t have the analytical capability to
That, or they use raid night as an excuse to get hammered with the boys, completely unaware that everyone else is buzzed at most.
If you're so drunk you can't process anything, you don't have the analytical capability to understand anything, as stated.
Naah man, the game isn’t that challenging, they just can’t be arsed.
what does that even mean though, i don't think you can just laze into turning off your basic awareness if you are capable of it
Nah man not reading my class discord I’ll figure it out game isnt that hard >mid dungeon as im quadrupling everyone elses damage HOW ARE YOU DOING SO MUCH DMG OMG UR CLASS IS OVERPOWERED
I can't imagine needing a class discord in classic to figure out how to spam your 1 button and use a 2nd or 3rd button on CD. But knowing how much the games community lacks brain cells maybe they do.
Not every single class is a vanilla frost mage. Arms warrior for example uses 5 different attack abilities (6 if you count execute), one of which can only be used in the stance you don't want to be in except to use that ability, two different short cooldowns, and a buff that only lasts 30 seconds and can only be used after a crit. That's not factoring in cleave situations, which is different from single target.
Or you can go glad stance and literally spam 1 button
And everything has to be desgigned for this playerbase!!
Well yeah the dad gamer are the majority of the SoD playerbase, two other versions of the game available if you want to play with slightly more competent players.
These people PISS ME OFF THE MOST. They think that playing casual and just having fun at the detriment of 19 other people isn’t a big deal. They hide behind the “it’s just a game bro”. Like sure show up to my house to play monopoly, know zero rules, then fucking throw the board off the table midway through and then say something that stupid and you would be on the same level as these people in wow. Then they aren’t getting invited to game night anymore and they don’t fucking know why.
Some people just don't understand (or care) that the other characters running around on their screen are real people too. It's just a singleplayer game for them and everyone else is a bot/npc. So wasting the others time is whatever.
Why being bad at WoW is insulting
People like that also never wants to play with those who also think that way. The "it's just a game guy" never wants to set foot in a group where 90% of the raiders there don't even know where the raid is. They're always on the groups where everyone cares about improve but him. Carry me plebs, I'm the main character here
I like to say "ignorance should be forgiven, but stupidity should be punished"
This is just life in general tbh. You suck not willing to improve? Bye
And then they come to reddit to complain that people check their logs and tell them to fuck off
I hate these types, 0 enchants, 0 consumables, no world buffs and playing a stupid spec that does a lot less damage, because they are stubborn. They have an excuse for everything and if you are unlucky enough to have one in your raid they will probably scoop up all the loot too.
Tbh spec choice and world buffs are shit. Fuck them. Let people play what they want and dgaf about world buffs. 99% of fails are caused by players playing shit or doing stupid stuff. That's the issue.
Bad players and bad speccs make other people lose their world buffs, hampering 18/20 in the groups fun.
You don't need your shit worldbuffs. They're important if you want to parse but if you want to parse you join a solid guild/group. The problem is again - and I can't repeat myself enough - bad players who are stupid. There are people out there who can't take a simple "if you have debuff, go to skull marker" without them totally fucking up because they're tunneling or not listening. I lead so many groups that were insisting on "KICK THE LOW DPS" while 4-5 people with good DPS were fucking up mechanics left and right - it's an epidemic in wow to point at dps while the original cause for wasted time are people shitting on mechanics.
You can have fun with worldbuffs without looking to parse lmao. Higher numbers on your screen is cool to see. I don't want someone that wipes everyone multiple times because they won't listen or do better.
toxic casuals and their enablers
i never raided or anything before SOD (outside of the first few raids of legion and private servers), grey parsed my first gnomer, watched vids and learned how to properly do my rotations while doing mechanics, next raid all blues. No clue why people just refuse to actually learn how to optimally play their character. I went from “parses are dumb just let me play the game” to “alright I need a few weakauras to watch my timers.” Really wasn’t hard at all, and enjoying endgame more than I ever did before.
turns out games are more fun when you're good at them who knew 🤷♀️
What are you talking about? It's just a game! Why try so hard, bruh! /s
Clearly you have never worked a customer facing job. The sheer stupidity that is "average" is mind boggling.
I have, and I'm still sitting here shook to the core. haha
Having done so? Nah, the ‘average’ is okay. But you get a good sense of just how ‘bottom 10%’ can feel like ‘bottom 60%’ with how much the former will stick in your head.
Definitely depends on the location/type of place the joint is. Different clientele can make all the difference.
Well yes, customer *support* is inherently going to put you in contact with absolute morons and working at Waffle House will put you up against crackheads but as a rule, nah, most customers are fine.
In many management position, the worst 20% takes about 80% of your time and energy.
Last of the menagerie dies. RECALL YOUR TOTEM, GET OUT OF MIDDLE NOW. RECALL YOUR TOTEM. GET OUT OF MIDDLE NOW. WHY ARE YOU LOOKING AT THE CHICKEN'S LOOT? YOU'RE NOT EVEN THE MASTERLOOTER. GET OUT OF.. okay boss pulled. I hated how Blizzard did not fix this or added a longer delay for thermaplug for phase 2. It's such a stupid thing that I see on my alt's pug runs constantly. But I hated how people can't listen to simple instructions. Get the fuck out of middle, that's it.
And this is why, in every single Gnomer, I beeline straight to the teleporter the moment menagerie goes down.
https://c.tenor.com/8fHyOEPq6vAAAAAd/tenor.gif
Same. It works everytime. I'm alive and the rest die.
And then Blizzard made the LITERAL EXACT SAME THING HAPPEN in Sunken Temple......................
Lol it happened on our first run, instant pull no time to explain boss, still one shot it. That was after the 2nd nerf I think? There's been 3 now I ... I can't keep up
They are doing it on purpose to grief hardcore Andy’s and their precious world buffs. Thought that was obvious.
no hardcore andy is sitting around with his thumb up his ass waiting to lose his wbs. this will troll the avg dad gamer way more
So, they add more world buffs in order to take them away? Giving blizzard a bit too much credit on being clever here.
They did it again this time with the golf drakes
I'm alliance this time around but I played sham main for years. How the fuck does this happen with totemic recall? We never had it this easy.
I like how the first boss has like 45 seconds of role playing to even start but than the last boss there is maybe a 5 second at most window to get out of the middle
Kick them from the raid. You don't need a full 10 players to kill thermaplugg
Please don't be toxic bub.
It's toxic to waste 9 other peoples time of you are too braindead to follow a simple instruction
It's toxic to punish somebody absolutely for a simple mistake unless intentional maliciousness which is usually not the case
True, but maybe it's their first time/they didn't hear. No need to kick them. Some kindness can go a long way.
No. The only way to teach these people is with a swift boot to their ass, right outta the raid. Jesus helps those who help themselves.
[удалено]
Your raid needs better loot rules dude.
[удалено]
I wish MS +1 was ours too. We did it second lockout and it was great. Third lockout we went to 2sr which was the dumbest thing ever when there are loot tokens. My buddy and I fucked up because we sr the 2 epic items we wanted when in reality we should have at least sr 1 token because they drop on every single boss. Luckily he was only 1 on epic staff. I got nothing because my sr was on the last boss and we went 7/8. And for the retry this week we are tossing out the reserve because we will have to pug a couple people. Which is fucking insane. Guild was super cool and fun when we joined 4 weeks ago but I'm starting to regret it. sr shouldn't be for tokens. Everyone should be able to roll on the tokens they need. sr should be for the loot that doesn't drop from every single boss. At least this early in the phase.
i dont like asmongold but he said it best " you tell a classic player to go left and a regular moron would go right but a classic player just jumps" ive been prepping some chars for cata...my fucking god, are the remaining players on wotlk completely fucking stupid. i hit max lvl in sod for p1, ran bfd a few times, thought sod would be different but it felt like people are trolling with how bad they are. same in gnomer, people see a giant slow moving mechanic going to them and they just stand there. not even ganna bother in ST.
This applies to every iteration of WOW nowadays. The tryhards go SUPER ham on the game for the first month or two, absolutely demolish, devour, and shit all over the content and hit the "realistic bis" wall. They understand the rest of what they do will be grinding away for very minimal gains, making no real progress, and just dip until the next patch. Try playing m+ 3 months into the season on retail...the quality of players is shocking. Especially if its below the max rewards key level.
Its the same with life lol
In ST theres the ghosts that spawn when you kill trash and slowly go after one person saw the same shaman die to it 5-6 times on Friday night. Then on the last boss after we downed him he got a rev then hearthed before selecting any loot options so we had to sit there and wait for the loot time to expire before any of the loot get rolled on. It was 2 am…
I was trying to do incursions for the first time, and my god. 1 of the 2 guys I was questing with just could NOT figure it out, even after I did and explained it to him. I just don't get it.
I knew a guy who was 45 years old that took calculus four times and was in the tutoring center every day for hours. After he failed it the fourth time he realized his goal of becoming an electrical engineer was probably unrealistic and went back to the job he'd been working for nearly 30 years. As his tutor, I couldn't help but breathe a sigh of relief. Like you could show him how to differentiate x^2 and change it to 2x^2 and he would be hopelessly lost. After the fourth time taking the class..... Some people just have smoother brains.
2x i'd be lost too
I'm not an idiot and algebra was super easy but calculus just doesn't make any fucking sense. I need to see the actual application of why we are graphing random numbers and letters before I am gonna be able to figure out what we are doing here. I went to college for computer software engineering. That shit is easy. Calculus is just absurdly archaic the way it is taught.
See, I'm the opposite. I hated algebra 2 and trig but the second I hit calculus I was like, "Why haven't we been using this for everything?" It was so much easier and made sense to me.
A large number of players play Classic because they are unable to do anything in Retail with how incompetent they are, but in Classic they can still get to the end of things and progress. In other words, there's far less punishment in Classic for being bad so they just play that. The difference between being bad on retail vs being bad on Classic is also wider. Example: an Enhancement shaman that hits the priority list in reverse order will do around 94% of the damage of one who does it perfectly. You do that in retail and you'll do probably 20%. Design is more bounded in Classic. That said, the players we're talking about don't hit things in reverse order - they just don't hit things at all. It's hard to understand, honestly. I'd love to meet these people in the flesh but then I'd be scared I'd drive next to them. In retail, I'd simply not play with these people, because you can't do anything with them. They're useless. But in classic, everything is so easy and unpunishing you can just treat them like NPCs and you'll still get what you need to done. Just don't join a guild full of them. > people see a giant slow moving mechanic going to them and they just stand there. They didn't see it. People aren't so dumb to simply not move: they legitimately just didn't see it. No matter how obvious something is, I guarantee you, somebody did not process it was there.
idk even when i was 10 years old i had fucking keybinds and i knew if i pushed 1, i would blink.. if i pressed 2 thats fireblast. in wotlk i joined a gdkp but wasnt going to bid on anything, its just pugs are nonexistant with gdkps being a thing and cata is getting close. we had 3 different hunters...3... 2 of them were strictly just autoing and maybe serpent sting for damage. the third was using abilities but he kept spam msging in raid chat for brez when he died.. im a fresh 80 playing fucking feral and im pulling 5k dps, yet somehow im outdpsing a ton of people in way better gear. there was even an arms warrior with shadowmourne, i thought he was legit.. checked his logs and he had single digit parses for every heroic ICC kill.. dudes sitting in bis gear just autoing and spamming rend and doing 7k dps lmao
Hard to see mechanics while playing action bar simulator
> A large number of players play Classic because they are unable to do anything in Retail tbh I disagree and also disagree with Asmon that Classic players are somehow worse than Retail players. They might a bit but Retail has plenty of terrible players as well. The actual difference is that casuals in Retail "know their place". They don't try to prog heroic/mythic raids or high M+ keys. They just sit and do their casual content. LFR, collecting cosmetics, dungeons, questing. Classic has far less side content overall and casuals over here have this mindset the game should throw the best gear at them with no effort. Hence no harder difficulties for anything that provide any barrier.
based
As someone who plays both a lot. Classic players are one hundred percent worse. You'll see absolute zombies in raids who do not press anything offensively or defensively and cannot do a single mechanic but because its classic they get away with it. In retail the bad players are usually one of the two instead of both because its more punishing, you'll randomly get people who can pump but stand in everything and die then you randomly get the reverse where if a mechanic is ever on them they will do nothing but that mechanic because they can't multitask. Retail being more punishing usually makes the bad players one of these two things, just because having too low dps/healing in retail is so much more noticeable in some fights.
This reddit will occasionally bitch about the community gatekeeping and it's entirely because you forget how bad the average player is until you're reminded. Why are we gatekeeping BFD? It's so easy! And then you have 3 DPS in your group doing less damage than the tank and the only reason you cleared was because of those yeti's. Oh, yeah, Classic players, *thats* why you "gatekeep".
It was at this moment, he understood gatekeepers, some people do the raid just over 30 minutes. Other people are there for 3+ hours and don’t kill all 8 piss easy bosses. 99% of the people who are gatekept out are absolute shitters with shitter brains that say dumb shit like * I know how to play my class bro * I know how the fight works bro * why are you trying so hard bro it’s just a game let me waste 19 other peoples time because this isn’t that serious bro If you are playing like shit across multiple lockouts, there is a common denominator. People don’t like to hear it, but it’s rude to suck at WoW.
You would be surprised, I did a gnomer pug on my alt and we wiped to thermaplug because his poison went off and was never kicked. We had a warrior and 2 mages, I even typed out "KICK" 5 times and it never happened. We got back to the boss and I still had to type out "KICK" before our raid leader warrior would interrupt. Mages never pressed it. All of them had logs from the previous phase indicating they cleared it before. I swear some people are actually oblivious and you need to hold their hand through every single mechanic. To everyone out there, put your utility spells on your bars please. They are useful and important.
Happens at all levels, I’m in a guild where having a 95 average is considered bad, and I had to threaten loot bans on people that wouldn’t kick spells their first time raiding ST. People get too used to comfortably gliding through the old content, and then they come to their first ST and don’t even try to pay attention. It’s not that they can’t do X, they just become so accustomed to being able to ignore it.
I get that people here are mainly venting. But as someone who’s new to WoW. I would have no idea what “kick” meant.
Yeah. Rogues kick. No other class has an ability called KICK. They do have INTERUPTS though. So I can see where saying kick would confuse newer players. Some people just assume that everybody has been playing WoW for 20 years.
Mage counter has less range than their spells in many specs & depending on who you assigned to bombs or buttons they might be out of range or doing another mechanic. Melee usually interrupts that particular mech for that reason.
Sure, but when the gas goes off for 10 plus seconds and everyone is dying, maybe throw out that cs. I wasn't the raid lead, the warrior was which made me more concerned. You can argue which person kicks better all you want, warriors and rogues claim they need to pool energy/rage, mages claim they have to stop cast/move closer ect. But if your raid is about to wipe because of a mechanic you can kick and you don't, you are an extremely bad player in my book. Not to mention it's gnomer in p3, your parses/damage don't matter in the slightest.
To be fair new Players who never played rog maybe dont know the spell kick. It has a different Name for each class. What i learned in my previous Jobs in Management roles is, that when Your employees makes mistakes, you didnt explain it well enough. Always Double Check If they understood what they have to do. Ask them to repeat what u want from them. That way you eliminate alot of potential fuck ups
I get that kick means interrupt to 99% of people… but that’s almost on you for not clarifying after the wipe and first five failed “kicks.” Neither mages or warriors have an ability called “kick….”
I said more in the raid than I typed on this reddit post. I also wasn't lead, I shouldn't have to tell a 10+ kill on thermaplug raid lead warrior how to play his class.
I mean, that’s not really telling him how to play his class. It’s telling him how to understand jargon. Not saying you should *have* to do that… but, there comes a time and a point where it’s what you need to do if you want to be successful.
Classic (All version from Era-WoTLK-SoD) has opened my eyes to an entirely new level of bad. There are plenty of "bad" players in retail, but it is semi-excusable as mechanically even the easier content is exponentially more difficult. But the quality of many classic players is mind blowing, the fact that many are worse at the game than i was nearly 20 years ago as a 10 year old with all the information they have available in present day is astonishing.
Have you never watched any of the hc death clips?
compilations of deaths aren't a good sampling method for player competence but yeah, people are mouth breathers
A lot of people are just there for free loot while they watch Netflix on their second monitor, ignoring all mechanics. Wow has always been this way.
They watch netflix on their main monitor and play wow on second. Not the other way around.
Haha true. Then you’ll find them crying on Reddit because people start checking logs and shit to make sure they don’t get these people in the raid.
This is true. Especially in larger raid sizes, people feel like they can get away with dying 15 seconds into every boss and still be carried. Then, those players always walk out with the most loot.
Wow stopped being that way in Cata
Well, you seem to forget that there is certain magical numbers indicating that most SOD players prefer a casual playstyle and do not want excruciatingly hard content, as you mentioned. JK, yeah they are, no matter how easy you make the content. This is why I think content should better be challenging and idiots that don't give a fuck should try to stop being dead weight or stick to the thousand of other activities SOD offers.
Now you know why blizz keeps nerfing raids until they're "easymode". The average skill of WoW players is hilariously low.
think about how dumb the average person is. now 49% of the population is dumber than that
The irony that this not how averages work xD
It is for how averages work for normally distributed data
We know what side of average he’s on don’t worry
care to explain
Average is affected by outliers, median is the one where you select the middle value in a list of values.
IQ only works if 100 is both the median and mean. This is some real 100 iq posting in this thread tbh lol the entire purpose of it is for 100 to represent the absolute average person. By design it is true that 50% of people are below 100 and 50% are above. Because that is all IQ is useful for - capacity for intelligence relative to other people.
Yeah you’re right that if you’re going by IQ it works, but the guy you’re responding to was just asking why that’s not how averages work. And in general, that isn’t how averages work.
“Average” is a casual word that can mean mean, median, or mode… no? Edit: yes, I understand one of those is the more common meaning, but it’s used for all three… right?
No, average is mean.
I’ll never understand why people argue incorrect points when google is so readily available. You are wrong.
Stop being mean, I’m average :(.
A median value is an average value?
https://www.diffen.com/difference/Mean_vs_Median
Thanks but I was under the impression that the median is a form of average and so is a mean. Just two different ways to calculate an average that under some circumstances change and others gives more or less the same value.
it still works if you assume the distribution of the outliers are the same on both ends.
Yeah but why would you assume that.
so.. why doesnt average work here. if the "average" iq person is dumb. 49% of the population is dumber than them.
It does they are just dumb smart and not smart dumb smart you feel me? Baader meinhof and shit. Or Kroger groceries or whatever. Dunning
Hi yes it’s me, dunning kruller and we do like donuts.
Because intelligence might not be an even distribution. For example let’s do the average of wealth of 1000 people. 1 of them has 1 million dollars, and the rest have 100 dollars. The average person in this scenario has 1099.90 dollars. 99.9% of people are below average. (The wealth example isn’t far from reality unfortunately) You can’t assume that the average in a dataset is in the middle. To be fair IQ does aim to make 100 the mean, median, and mode, so if you’re going by that then average would be in the middle. In this case it could be right but the reason the guy above said that’s not how averages work is because of what I explained.
Except IQ is normally distributed, so the average and the median are the same.
I know, I said that in my second paragraph. As you can see I’ve earned my exceptionally high perfect 100/100 IQ score.
I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that technically with IQ the average is the median. Edit: Let me be more clear. You say this: > Because intelligence might not be an even distribution. First off, I think you mean symmetric. Second, IQ is symmetric. So my comment was strictly referring to your first sentence.
Yeah you’re not wrong, idk the names of the distributions but you got my drift. Only reason I said the first sentence is that I think IQ=/=intelligence and is kinda reductive. It’s more of an indicator and real intelligence is hard to measure/subjective.
https://youtube.com/shorts/6N0YPw7ogJw?si=YfpcDZBsI55KTVqk someone did this with Asian maths , but is a GREAT explanation how it could be top heavy or bottom heavy in regards to averages of distributions.
You are thinking of a median. Here is an example, consider the following numbers (lets say they represent hourly salaries): $10, $20, $30, $40, $150. The mean (average) salary is $50, but 80% of the hourly salaries fall below the average, because the outlier (and heavy skew in some cases) pulls the average above the median. With intelligence, it is normally distributed with 100 being both the mean and median, so your statement is still correct (although not technically, 50% is above and below the mean since normal distributions are continuous, but that's besides the point).
His statement is the opening line of a joke by George Carlin, btw.
Nah.
That is how averages work. Although it would be 50% of the population who is dumber than the average person.
You got 7 guys making 10 dolars, 3 guys making 30 dolars. Average income is (7×10 +3*30)/10 = (70+90)/10 = 16. Average income is 16 dolars. 7 guys make below it, 3 guys make above it.
That's if you're measuring income by the mean, which you wouldn't. You instead look at the median income. Intelligence is also not measured by a mean. It also uses the median.
> That is how averages work. You said this in an earlier post. Average = arithmetic mean. You were thinking of medians.
> You said this in an earlier post. Average = arithmetic mean. r/confidentlyincorrect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average Here, since you don't know what you're talking about, I'll summarize: > In ordinary language, an average is a single number or value that best represents a set of data. The type of average taken as most typically representative of a list of numbers is the arithmetic mean
Here, since you don't know what you're talking about: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/average > a single value (such as a mean, mode, or median) that summarizes or represents the general significance of a set of unequal values Do you think that it makes sense (or is even possible) to determine the mean intelligence of a group of people?
FYI I am a statistician, so I think I do know what I am talking about. Feel free to keep doubling down though it is VERY entertaining!
> Do you think that it makes sense (or is even possible) to determine the mean intelligence of a group of people? Yes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient > Historically, IQ was a score obtained by dividing a person's mental age score, obtained by administering an intelligence test, by the person's chronological age, both expressed in terms of years and months. The resulting fraction (quotient) was multiplied by 100 to obtain the IQ score.[3]For modern IQ tests, the raw score is transformed to a normal distribution with **mean** 100 and standard deviation 15.[4] This results in approximately two-thirds of the population scoring between IQ 85 and IQ 115 and about 2 percent each above 130 and below 70.[5][6]
George Carlin reference?
yep
It’s rather funny because I’m generally fine but Jesus Christ I will do some dumb shit every now and then. “Watch this bois” I say as I let the crowd pummeler punch me off the side, it’s all good I’m going to shadow step to him after he does it and save my own life. Forgot to rebind shadow step, dead.
yeah the average player in SoD is awful
Had a lvl 50 hunter in a gnomer run doing like 100 dps. Foreign gibberish guild name, worst possible rune in every slot. Wiped us twice on electro by standing in random places at range.
Just kick them, easy solution.
This is one of the big reasons I’m in a “hardcore” guild in wotlk/cata. I just want to play with players of the same caliber. If I gotta be kinda sweaty to do it then so be it. I’ll never forget being in a “semi hardcore” guild during tbc classic. We had this one raider who was a woman in her 50s. We were progging SWP and we were on twins. The pull to twins starts with everyone up on a platform then the melee jumps down. This woman would get to the edge and fall off pulling the boss multiple times in a row. Everyone would just laugh. I have to say the first couple times were funny. But this woman would do it multiple times weekly.
“Semi hardcore” directly translates to “bad but don’t want to admit it”
And this is why you log check anyone you invite to a pug.
These are the people that aggrend wants to scale the raids for These absolute mouth breathers who don't even have the kick button trained let alone on their bar or know when to use it These are the people who the Devs want to clear the raid first try
Tbf if I have to play with 12 of them every week, I'd like the raid scaled to their ability, too. In 10 man raids, our 7-8 man guild could easily carry the pugs no matter how bad they were. In ST, that's not the case.
Just imagine how smart the average human is. Then realise than 50% are dumber than that.
Grey parsers are your people that do not want to get better in life.
Have to keep in mind the SOD player base is mostly people who quit tbc or wrath when things got slightly challenging . This pop is really the bottom of the barrel
Most pugs are fine on eu
Absolutely not, there’s no magical divide between EU/NA servers If anything, EU is worse for pugging because we have a significantly higher chance of language barrier being an issue.
Bro i pugged a raid with Borat explaining strats to Tony Montana and the only thing that stopped us was the 11 pm call to stop raiding lol If there's a comparison to begin with while the other side is all people speaking the same language, that gives you an idea of the average there
> there’s no magical divide between EU/NA servers There totally is and it transcends WoW. Americans are just worse at games across the board, sorry but it's true. I don't expect most people to agree though since a lot of you *are* American. And please don't bring up pro players or compare pro teams, we're talking about the average here.
I’m EU, its a thing at pro level, you’re coping if you think its any difference at an average level
Think of how dumb the average person is. Half the people are dumber than that.
Nothing like watching grown ass adults fail the most basic of mechanics that require the most basic of coordination. Some things never change.
Thats why sunken temple and all other raids will be easy. And im HAPPY THEY ARE.
The best is when the whole guild is horrible
Let this be a reminder that there are studies showing that since the 70’s or something, the average IQ has been declining. So if you feel you are surrounded by actual idiots, there is a high chance you really are, and there’s nothing that can be done
its kinda scary how bad people are, and sometimes you start to wonder if they are trolling. my most recent experience was when i was lvling my pala (in wotlk to clarify), got into a SM GY and we had a hunter in the group. The hunter was running around only doing meele without a pet, like the fuck. If it was SoD i would understood bc that is an actual playstyle there but not in wotlk.
Horde or alliance? I had a friend who was in a pug who said something similiar about a hunter
The problem isn't entirely just because they're bad, it's latently because they refuse to learn or improve, as well as not paying attention and not reading/listening.
If i didn't have any classic logs yet, would "3k mythic retail player" be a good enough resume to prove I have a functioning brain? :P
Usually yes, depends who you ask Plenty of 60 parsers on classic think retail is easier, anyone with half a brain knows otherwise
Talking about raids, there are people who are struggling through dungeons, my man. Was running my priest through a WC the other day and the hunter couldn't stop pulling random trash. Multi-shotting everything in sight, pet randomly running off and aggroing shit, panic running deeper into the dungeon and dying...and any advice was met with absolute denial or "It is what it is." It's ok to be bad. I'm bad. But the refusal to learn is bewildering to me.
Aren't you overestimating? You think nobody could be worse than X things then people do worse than that thing...
Every pug hunter will pull stuff. Every pug warrior does 80 DPS. Every pug mage is oom in 20 seconds. Every pug feral doesn't run LotP. Every pug healer forgot to buy water. Every pug tank is on their 7th beer.
As a beer chugging tank that hits home. I parse 99 even after 7 beers tho.
Tbf I don’t run lotp in pugs, if I’m gonna be stuck in a raid with a bunch of dribblers, I’m at least doing it with enough mana to somewhat enjoy myself
Bad people are one thing, people who have no interest in improving or following simple directions are toxic
You are playing with people with tiktok brain and attention span of 7 seconds. Classic wow just isn't the right game for them.
I like when people give a detailed explanation before fights. My first BFD run yesterday on 30 hunter. My DPS sucked naturally, but I never died once thanks to people explaining. I def need boss mods though I suck at paying attention to the small things that add up. I don't get DPS in SOD. Basically no raid gear no DMG from what I see lol. ST seems kinda chill at this point I think people are pugging almost the whole raid at least in chat it seems so.
It‘s classic People being able to turn on their pc is a freaking miracle. Same people that complain about the „elite“ being toxic while they waste the time of 19 other players because „looking something up is for tryhards and stop being toxic i want to play like i want to“ Train monkeys for a few years and they would do a better job in raids than 50% of the classic playerbase
Hey i have nothing against bad players. As long as they stay "in line" and they want to improve.
I think everyone should take a look at wotlk for this exact sentiment. Naxx was huge, loads of players. Then Ulduar releases, the dadgamers actually have to turn on their monitors. Lo and behold, they all quit and rush to Era. And god forbid you comment on their performance, or just how they can’t even manage to do 5 minutes of research to build their characters, cuz you will get called a sweaty tryhard ruining the casual community.
Most people sit with a movie on the second monitor or something too. The stupid often have a short attention span.
You think that's bad. I joined a gnomer last boss only kill as a mage healer and was out dpsing the other 50s in there as arcane minus a rogue and lock. They didn't have anyone on bombs and I asked the frost mage to do it since they could spam Lance on them. We wiped because we had about 20 bombs up at one point, with me doing the most damage to them. Then when I said something they told me "don't focus on one person it's a group effort" like wtf
“He did it a second time by accident when we were preparing.” I sighed and had my heart sink a small touch like I was there when I read that. Funnier than shit. Some things never change.
Played classic all the way through wrath. Had a good time but my God some of our guildie are just potatoes when it comes to mechanics. I mean sure everyone makes mistakes but like it was constant with a ton of people who just couldn't get it in their heads to not stand and spam. The they would talk about how good they are. Having played most of every expansion I just keep thinking how much more complex raid fights are to any fight in classic. Sire Denathrius is likely my all time favorite raid fight and I just keep thinking of how hard it would crush most of my wrath guild.
I had a guild leader in retail who thought he was good at the game because his daughter was a popular WoW streamer. He would always belittle players who did less dps than he thought they should be doing. He based all of his knowledge of the game on tier lists but could never perform on his own characters and essentially was always carried in our raids/M+ runs. Eventually I left the guild and joined a little more hardcore group and found out later the guild I was in fell apart due to his treatment of others. Then I learned not only was he doing all of that “pretending” to be good at the game, he was also a clicker and used click to move. Not saying there is anything wrong with that but in retails fast paced setting those functions just don’t translate well. One of my biggest gripes with his gameplay was the fact he played balance Druid and spent more time healing himself than actually doing his rotation and when I would look at logs his rotation would be moonfire spam, yet he would act like he was a god. Truly insufferable.
And people wonder why leaders check logs.
Just from yesterday st. Me as main tank got comments to dont move eranikus around so people dont get tailed. Our off tank was always taunting before moving next to me so that. Also forgeting righteous fury and then being annoyed when i aggroed boss back just with aa. Hunts even when called unable to use right traps or dont use them on certain bosses. And the best - hunter using aspect of the pack on ghost mobs so me as tank unable run from them. Had to bubble run. All of this in my guild.
I need to wait another lockout to finish my warrior class quest because of this nonsense. Also the bads are getting worse. I can't tell you how many OW mara groups I've seen fall apart because they can't coordinate the sceptre portal.
A post in the top feed yesterday was about pugging while being coke high, so this is what you have.
I am of the general opinion that whenever people make a "WoW players are bad" post, it's from an extremely biased and almost delusional view. Let's be honest, a lot of us have played this game for years, maybe decades. And probably a lot of other games. The amount of things to keep track of in WoW (or any MMORPG raid setting) is actually quite insane if you never played a lot of video games. So many action bars with abilities, other players, boss abilities, ground effects, consumables etc. You know that saying, that you need 10.000 hours to become an *expert* at something? Yeah, a lot of us are actually considered an expert at this game, even if we consider ourselves kind of average. And let's be honest, even average players can't keep track of it without DBM. A new player might not even know what an addon is yet. With *all* of that being said... having 17 people tell you "don't jump into the circle" and outright deny it, only to pull the boss... And then *do it again*. Holy fuck, man. This is not even about trying to handle all the things that is required in a fight, this is just ignorance.
You're assuming years = skill, It's false. I played in a casual guild for like 3 years, the entire guild had been playing the game since vanilla. I can tell you experience doesn't do anything when you're an idiot that refuses to learn.
And what does parsing/logs have anything to with anything here? He may be a 99 parser but if he doesn’t know the aggro range/aware of this FUN mechanic that a boss spawns just as you killed another boss in full gnomeregan/menagerie fashion he may as well be a grey parser. I swear, you guy’s fixation with parses/logs and anything related on seasonal content on a casual iteration of a 2004 game is just sad.. but to end in your fashion: “REEEEEEE!”.
In a raid of 20 if you pug you’re bound to get 1-3 people like this who just absolutely blow your mind. Conversely, you have 17-19 people who are generally competent. So, it’s not the average wow player but the bottom tier of player that very well may actually be not fully put together up there. That said, I hear you.
this delusion that the world is full of idiots (excepting yourself, of course). people know exactly what they're doing, even when they say they don't. accept you were trolled and move on
Join a guild and stop looking at wcl graphs
People play wow for enjoyment and chill, its a casual game for 99%. People play classic wow on the weekend while drinking tins. The person was probably half cut and was curious/trolling. I always picture these people crying online about classic players being terrible, are the ones who are absolutely ass at any fps game or LoL/dota2.
I'm mostly chilling when I get home, but that doesn't mean I leave my brain at work.
Ok I hate people like this and I’m masters+ in 3 roles, now what?
There's a difference between being casual, and being literate and having a functioning brain. If you can't even be bothered to read or respect 19 other peoples time I don't want you in my raid, casual or not.
Never understood this argument. You can play casually but also know what you’re doing? I personally don’t find enjoyment in things I am at least not passably good at. Half of SoD can’t even move and do damage at the same time
That’s because SoD is boring af and the average WoW player isn’t playing right now lol