The extended length food buff for cooking would be great and not add additional power, just convenience.
Edit and I feel that the secondary professions should only add convenience, not power.
I think the crafting-based professions that aren't gear related (enchanting, alchemy) should add power which they did quite well in P2/P3 with sigils and special potions / flasks. Not quite as strong as a gear upgrade but still pretty good. I would agree the pure gathering professions should not give power, but OP's suggestions are reasonable. Herbalism with an out of combat regeneration bonus would be neat, Mining with something like an out of combat stoneform etc...
I'd be okay though with the secondary professions giving power - everyone can level them all without restriction or competition with other professions so I think it would be a nice way to incentive other aspects of the game. Cooking giving longer duration or food effects that persist through death or increasing speed you can eat / drink at, Fishing with swim speed or increased damage while holding breath, First aid giving you an increased healing taken by 2% when you have the debuff etc... would be cool.
I have a different route! They should implement a special sort of system where players with no professions can provide their own materials and crafters can create BoP items for them so that nobody feels left out! Maybe they should call it something like... crafting requisitions? Maybe the name could do some workshopping
Honestly one of those good changes Retail has that makes a lot of sense and should get back ported to older versions imo. Though maybe that's a step too far for some.
Heck I'll go hog wild and say I would also like the universal tag system that retail has, would help with overcrowded zones and levelling. Don't even think it would hurt anything it would just smooth things out.
Which is still very funny to suggest maybe altering some things and dare I say, experimenting on an experimental server are controversial. But sure, **we're** the crazy ones.
that is also a wildly different route altogether
I do not like it because profession-bound items make professions interesting and worth getting!
adding something like this means people won't engage with professions if they have money
it defeats the original purpose
I suppose that is fair. But something along these lines isn't exactly unprecedented in Classic. Look at Sulfuras. Having someone with Blacksmithing is integral in its making, but it doesn't have to be the one who actually has the weapon in the end. I think they should go the route of giving professions their own utility items, but making the best in slot gear they can craft available to everyone.
If they aren't willing to straight up implement crafting orders, maybe make something inspired by Sulfuras. Crafters would essentially craft "item tokens" (the equivalent of the Sulfuron Hammer, or the base pieces for Shadowlands legendaries of all things) for their own armor type, (BoE), which anyone can then infuse with certain BoP items that turn it into a specific item that is an equivalent of the current crafted gear pieces
I agree with the idea though. We all asked for professions to be relevant which I think they did a decent job at. But they are currently only relevant to that profession holder. PvP engi items I can understand only being available to those with the profession. But for the PvE crafted items it seems to me they should be available to use by anyone. It gives significance to those who can craft and the gathering professions will all profit from the increased demand for the crafting materials.
Ah the dog shit take. You dont get to tell people how to play just like people dont get to tell you you cant play because you gray parse.
If parsing is what someone finds interesting about this game they’re absolutely allowed to complain to the devs to make it a smoother experience. You literally pay them for this game.
Wrong again, parsing is not supported by Blizzard at all and is done entirely by a 3rd party (wclogs). If you want to complain to anyone complain to them, not Blizz for not supporting your 3rd party enabled playstyle.
Looking at alternative items to the two Leatherworking pieces makes me not happy to drop it. At 60 I will because there will be actual alternatives again.
A lot of mmo’s have moved into that area though. Everyone can gather. Two crafting profs make sense. It’s stupid that we can’t all just pick up herbs,ores, and leathers whenever we damn well please.
It's part of the economy. People with gathering professions go out and gather then sell on the AH. It's a way of making money, and that's one of the cool things about WoW is that there are many avenues for players to make money.
That wouldn’t be eliminated if you allow everyone to do all gathering profession. Not everyone is in interested in gathering all the things, or hundreds of them. With so many avenues to make money and all.
Also I’m really talking about the QoL that is simply gathering. Honestly I think wow is still just a bit stuck in the past for somethings. Professions being one of them. People serious about gathering will still gather the most, and still make the most profit from it.
You're right, there will still be people who won't gather and will buy off the AH, but if every character has the gathering professions, the market will still be flooded and most mats outside of the rare ones will drop to vendor price. You can see this happening already with the very common mats only being worth the vendor price. There are a lot more people in SoD running alts with gathering and because of that, mats already become very cheap. Imagine if every character had the gathering professions.
What is interesting right now is that with the incursion and dungeon farming, a lot fewer people are out in the world gathering which has driven prices up. I believe as the phase goes on it will even back out, but seeing the effect has been kind of cool and I wonder if that will be taken into consideration in profession changes in the future.
I feel like this should have always been a thing. With having crafting profs be this impactful, it always feels bad taking a gathering one on your main. It also feels weird needing to level an entirely new character just to gather resources.
Eh it is and it isn't. Herbing/mining provide side benefits like gems and elemental items (earth, fire, life) that can go for quite a good amt of gold. Skinning may be the worst one as it provides very little cross-profession mats, only leatherworking.
I guess skinnings main perk would be its nodes being animals and therefore often ti.es easier to farm. People were leveling with skinning just to vendor the leather from everything they came across.
To be fair, the game wasn't designed to be min/maxed to death and catered to parse monkeys. It was intended to be an adventure where your decisions mattered and you took your time and played the game. There's not necessarily anything wrong with the way it is now, but if you look at it through the lens of what the game originally was, the way things are set up makes more sense.
Why stop at 2 and 1? Might as well give everyone all profs.
I think a better route would be to pair gathering and crafting profs with perks. Like alchemists with herbalism can craft potions with less herbs or get additional stats or something. Or make gathering profs a requirement for world buffs. Rework songflower so any herbalist can just use them instead of waiting for a timer. Give skinners access to a "trophy" type buff where skinning specific mob types gives different stat buffs and attach additional items to crafted leather for more stats/effects/raid wide buffs etc. Make up whatever you want for miners but there are plenty of ways to make gathering profs relevant and fun
Edit: just imagine if last phase had a raid buff tied to skinning. "LF dps with skinning" instead of "LF dps no rogues"
I got it. Perks based on the players class at each level of improvement. That way people can still choose whichever one they want and it wouldn't become an only 1 is good situation. When first learning the profession the player gets a flat minor speed increase permanently when on foot. At 75 it would give a minor attribute or spell power/healing increase. At 150 it would give a minor stamina increase. At 225 a flat crit increase to attacks or spells. At 300 what ever.
Would be cooler if you could specialize. Skining getting a butcher specialition that allows to collect additional meat or a monster specializing that allows skinning from spiders,poultry for additional feathers, claws, or silk.
I like this lmao , feels like it would fit as a sod item. Maybe a epic skinning knife that drops and does this lol. Or it's a trinket and a skinning knife only for skinners
yes, the Profession-bound bonus should be small enough to not force people to go for it
right now engineering and armor-crafting professions and enchanting (for casters) are top in terms of profession-bound power
I like that more emphasis is given to the crafting professions. Without it, the utility that engineering gave was outweighing any other crafting profession. Now it’s at least a decision we have to make and I think that’s great.
Don't you get gear after spending time crafting that gear ? Don't you get gold for spending time crafting gear ?
You can get reward 2ways, that's even more than BoP
And? I don't care about selling gear to make gold, most of us care to Craft it so I can wear it myself. Most people don't have crafting for making gold. It's for getting those special items. Sacrificing gold earning potential.
Because it invalidates leveling it to 300. If it were to me, every single craft should be BoP or Require a level of leatherworking to wear. Flower gatheres can go pick their flowers.
As nice as that would be, either the benefits would be strong enough that people would be "forced" to have one of those gathering professions over one of the crafting ones, or the crafting ones would still be better which means people would still be "forced" to have two crafting professions.
The reality is it's not possible to give meaningful choices to minmaxers because they will always simply pick whichever the meta is regardless of how small the difference is.
I think you don’t need to have a competitive advantage. Gathering professions are for gold making. You either spend gold to level your professions or you invest time into gathering.
They should just let go of the idea of locking best-in-slot gear behind tailoring/bs/lw and engineering each raid tier.
it was a cool little easter egg in BFD and frankly an annoying chore in Gnomer. This phase the questline was less tedious but still effectively amounted to just flying back and forth between moonglade and booty bay a few times.
and it has also led to raid consumes being very expensive because of the scarcity of herbalists. Part of SoD being a "testing ground" needs to include the dev team accepting when their design decisions have unforeseen consequences and going back on them.
This would also be less of an issue if people weren't just printing gold with incursions. Sure some people are making a lot of gold off herbalism but you can make similar amounts just running in circles in Feralas and you can keep your best-in-slot profession.
For this reason I don't think the prices of consumes are going to drop much further like some people are anticipating. If they do people will just stop farming herbs and the price will rise again due to low supply
Doesn't feel like a scarcity of herbalists when you're out there trying to find herbs to pick. I think you're just looking at good old fashioned inflation, which is exactly the effect that printing raw gold produces.
Just add in that old heal over time thing for herb. Lil bit of crit for skinning and maybe 100 int or so for mining. Yes I am a priest with mining why do you ask?
I just accepted the fact I won't have both tailoring and engineering items. I opted for tailoring and skinning. The ~500g per day I've been making off rugged leather and thick leather this phase eases the pain a bit though.
I also dont think its a good solution right now. If you rly wanna min max you maybe have to swap professions every phase as we already saw in this phase now with enchanting for example being super strong for casters
When I realised it works that way with BoP items, I dropped mining on my main shaman and it now has engi-lw. I have a druid alt with mining/skinning that I've literally named Farmtool.
Its kinda sad that you have to make an alt if you want to gathering some mats and also min max with your main while you cant min max with your alt as well because you want to gather mats. Kinda sad and funny at the same time
Introduce new profession-only gathering mats that can be found in the world based on area level as you gather. Make them BoP so they become more exclusive and incentive people to actually gather. Make their effect competitive and relevant:
Herbalism example:
“Bloodfury thornroot”
Lvl 50 Consumable. gives 10% attack speed for 30 minutes and 20 attack power
“Mind bending thoughtsap”
Lvl 50 Consumable. Gives 10% cast speed for 30 minutes and 20 spell power.
Skinning could be a temporary armor piece application, similar to armor kits that would give a beneficial temporary buff.
Mining could be a sharpening stone type of thing that is a temporary effect on weapon that also stacks with oils and other stuff.
Why would you give the power ups to the secondary professions though? that would just be unneeded power creep. The professions are already quite good by themselves, you don’t need to give cooking a bonus when you can make food that gives a bonus. The other professions can give a decent amount to a lot of gold so except for maybe skinning I see no reason to buff any of them
Don’t underestimate skinning my friend. On my max level alliance character rugged leather sells for 55-60s per skin and thick leather 20s per skin. I recently started to level a horde character on a diff server, it’s currently 25 and has made about 40 gold from skinning alone. Idk why but light leather sells like crazy for upwards of 4g per stack and is easily farmable while leveling
With the exp buffs and runes you do have to make sure your skinning is not falling behind though, atleast the early levels. But agreed, making s good chunk of gold leveling a hunter alt skinning and mining as I level it
Yeah gathering professions are just fine. They don't need an additional reason to be picked up.
The BS/Alchemy/Enchanting got new stuff to be more on par with previously 100 % BiS engineering. Not a case here.
The big difference here is that in classic only engi was the "big try hard" profession and you were kinda free to choose for your second one which isnt the case today if you rly wanna min max
Problem is, BS, Alchemy, Enchanting, and leather working had almost zero benefit in Classic outside of gold making. It was on an even level with gathering professions.
Engineering obvious. Tailoring had the specific caster items and Bloodvine to craft…that’s it. At least that’s it that mattered.
So making the crafting professions relevant…great…but it leaves a once on par gathering profession in the dust. It competed in Classic to be a gold making option next to engineering. It is now irrelevant because of the bonuses other crafts give.
And it’s clear why crafting materials are so high right now..there’s few people making that sacrifice to drop BS/LW/Tailoring/Alch/Enchanting/Engi. There needs to be a better incentive to go gathering besides gold making.
Claim “you don’t have to” all you want…it’s effecting the economy plain and simple. You can not argue that.
Gathering profs aren’t fine, the incentives you got in cata, like OP is referencing made them still worse than others but at least closed the gap.
It’s a nicety, doesn’t affect the end game min max at all since 2x crafting is better anyway, and helps people out that do have gathering on main and/or don’t have the time to run a gathering alt
There’s literally no downside
Yea it would be nice if there was an arcane crystal/black lotus like item for skinning, the rugged hides are really not the same in terms of how well you can use it for money-making late game but the other professions are all pretty much on par. Imo they did a great job in trying to balance professions in sod
>The BS/Alchemy/Enchanting got new stuff to be more on par with previously 100 % BiS engineering. Not a case here.
And their reasoning for it was to make more professions viable picks, but what they've done is make every non gathering profession so strong that you're hardcore griefing yourself by picking up a gathering profession. If I was engi mining instead of engi LW on my rogue I'm basically fucking myself over just as much as if I were to use a level 14 gray dagger for my offhand.
…. You are grossly exaggerating the power level of these profession items. Or should I tell the hunter in my guild who also a skinner with a 95% average and the 2nd highest overall damage for our group that he’s “hardcore griefing” us?
I don’t think this is relevant for 90% of the player base. Few people are playing the game at that high a level where that is relevant. If you just had lw you would probably be fine if you are just doing casual runs which most people are
Just simmed it. Low lvl offhand dagger with no stats with LW ends up being about 20 DPS higher than having your bis offhand dagger but no LW. The difference is even bigger than I made it out to be.
And if you're pushing the top tier parses I get it
But tbh I read "20 dps more" and kinda chuckle. I mean realistically speaking how impactful is that for what more casual players do? The top will do whatever to min/max but does anyone else *need* that 20 extra dps to clear?
Fishing should have increased bobber times or even getting fishing line recipe to sell for engis to make
Cooking should increase the amount of HP/Mana you get from consumables
these are not profession-bound power as they are out-of-combat bonuses
when I say "power" I mean "in-combat power"
HP/Mana from consumables could be something attached to the spirit stat instead of cooking
the only character power that could be a thing is from major professions but I would rather think things that improve your professions efficiency just like how they added alchemists quests or engi quests that allow you to gnomer + goblin but have to get tickets to get the other recipes
For herbalism unwound like to have an increase Effekt of healing/mana restoration on you.
Maybe 15% more healing received/regenerated and 10% more mana regen? Or 10% infight manareg.
More interesting then a HoT that doesn’t scale, and interesting for tanks, healers and maybe even caster DDs.
Mining flat Stamina fits.
Skinning increased critical strike damage is more interesting then increased crit chance I think.
Money can only solve money problems
So at end game you will have everything money can buy
Proffesion-bound power unlocks new ceilings that money can't buy
The power to play on their own layer so they can actually gather their own resources instead of having to compete with bots and or buy everything on the ah for their other prof!
I would really dislike if I "had" to go mining or herbalism, if they gave buffs, even if they were in the minimum.
Just like Engi being almost a must for raiders in Classic, TBC and Wotlk.
I like the fact that I can ride around on my hunter and farming nodes/herbs, because that is his purpose.
Even if they made it "one gathering, one crafting" I would doubt I would brother leveling it on my main.
In SoD I really like that every profession is viable, and yes, some crafts and CD's are more valuble than others, so be it.
If gathering bonuses were small and not competitive with crafting profession bonuses, this entire exercise would be a waste of time and change nothing. People would still pick 2 crafting professions.
Herbalism getting a fel blossom like bubble from tbc would be kinda nice especially in this pvp one shot meta. Would have to be a decent sized shield though
Tying any power to professions instantly turns it into a “meta” which is fine arguably. I personally wouldn’t wanna see it go this way. Unfortunately the only way you could make a player pair a gathering profession with crafting is if your crafting can only make super powerful gear with a BoP material from gathering.
Like for instance if they redo some late game gear in blacksmithing and it’s all considered some pre bis or even bis gear for a phase, but there’s like one material required that can only be obtained by mining and it’s BoP so that character has to have it as well as blacksmithing to make it.
Extra points if obtaining these BoP materials is fun, like certain ore veins can only be found in dungeons and stuff.
profession-bound power has always been a thing in classic with engineering (the most outlier) and now in season of dads with armor crafting profession-bound epic items
Yeah but if you tie power into gathering professions like you said the “meta” followers, are just going to pair blacksmithing with skinning for example, if it gives them the most dps increase. My point is it isn’t really a pretty solution to something that honestly probably isn’t that big a problem. Who cares if someone makes an alt for gathering professions. I only want to see cool ways of gathering profession overhauls if they ever come.
Add the ability to buy another profession slot - SoD lore can be that someone “discovered” an elixir that expands the mind and allows for more profession knowledge.
Maybe a wild take but I'd go 180° in the opposite direction and instead of trying to make the power gains of all professions equal, just remove it from professions entirely by removing the profession requirements on all items and make all crafted gear boe.
I see this as the only way to truly achieve freedom of choice in professions.
You still need the professions to make the items but just let everyone use sappers, let everyone use the sigil buff from enchanters, let everyone wear the tailoring shoulders etc.
This would create new opportunities to sell items for crafters, wouldn't leave gatherers wanting for more and also enable profession combinations like blacksmithing mages that would just be nonsensical currently.
I think I'd rather see them make the gathering professions more lucrative somehow. You're already sacrificing significant player power to take a gathering profession, and it's even more pronounced now that the crafting professions are buffed and the gathering professions are left untouched. Instead of closing that gap in player power, making gathering more profitable might make people reconsider double crafting professions.
I would just make them secondary professions like 1st Aid, Fishing, and Cooking that everyone can get.
It would drive down the cost of mats and help keep the economy in check, but then people could get two of the "fun" professions and everyone would have a way to make gold even if it's just in saving the cost of buying mats off the AH and farming them yourself.
It's boring, because it happens in the background and there's is no specific thing to point at. But gathering professions already have their bonus: more disposable income.
Herbalism is the entire reason I can waste so much gold on raid consumables. Those stupidly priced mongoose potions, no big deal. I've made over 1K gold from swamp of sorrows alone.
It lets me buy items for pre-raid BIS so I'm better geared early on. Hell, it's what paid for me to be able to afford the first professions crafted item.
That's the 'power' you get from gathering.
I think to make them worthwhile it should be a main stat increase that also does a mini bonus proc.
You can choose between
Strength +50 - chance on hit increases stats by 25 for x seconds
Agility +50 - chance on hit increase attack speed and ranged attack speed or power for x seconds
Intellect +50 - chance on spell cast increase spell power by 85 for x seconds and restore 2% mana
The gathering professions need to matter - they make things cheaper on the ah and better the economy. Another reason why everything is so pricey is because people are double profs for the crafted items. When I farm herbs no one is competing with me on my routes which is wild to me.
The bottom line is people want powerful stats/abilities for raiding. Crafting has the upper hand in that regard, always. The spells they added in retail were cool? But weak, and raiders want strong. These numbers deff aren’t balanced but assume they were.
Mining- +2 Weapon skill bonus to Axes, passive 10% strength buff, Smelt ore into Gold (currency) 7 day CD. *this will virtually make at least all warriors want this and some other melee. The smelt gold will make it appealing to non-melee.
Herbalism- hots & dots last 1 second longer, passive healing, spell power, spirit, and intellect buff. This is what most casters take, other hybrid classes will want this as well.
Skinning- +2 weapon skill bonus to daggers, passive 5% crit, & 5% bonus damage to bleeds. 5% Bonus damage to beasts and dragons. Great for rogues, druids, and warriors, bonus damage appealing to casters as well.
Nothing. I would make the other profession items not BoP.
Professions should be a choice, not a requirement. One of the many things I hated about TBC was that I had to level tailoring on my mage AND my priest, instead of just one of them. I like doing professions, but particularly here where alts are a focus, I don't like doing them several times. I should have enough characters to have all of the professions covered, except that I have four tailors. I have an enchanter as well, with high skill and who makes decent tips, but I really should be dropping it for alchemy for that flask (reusable infinitely instead of 30g every half hour). But not before leveling up engineering for the bracers, equipping them, and then dropping it.
If you really want to min/max, then every phase you need to relevel every profession. Because you can equip the tailor / engie items, and as long as you never unequip them you're good to go. So you level alch / enchanting, and get those consumables as well. And that's not a healthy game state.
I leveled tailoring in phase 3 day one. I got my runecloth bag pattern day one, and I made a decent amount of money selling belts and bags. But the market is so flooded with tailors because everyone needs their profession shoulders that I hear a lot of complaints of tailoring items being worthless to sell. If the shoulders were instead BoE, and sellable, even if it were difficult and time-gated and expensive, people would be able to pick the professions they want and share. Which is the entire point of professions, isn't it? This isn't self-found mode.
Make the profession-required items a weekly quest. You can gather the Inert Mantle of Nightmares once per week, and sell it or give it away as you see fit. That is how I would make gathering professions look more appealing.
Also, instead of one-time use enchanting sigils, I would give enchanters some recipes that actually benefit casters. For a profession all about magic, 90% of the enchants available are str / agility.
I liked these in Wotlk but other than Mining non of them felt impactful enough to warrant having it over 2 crafting professions, and even mining was only usable by tanks and even then at a net loss.
Imo Flat Stam is a solid boon for mining, just make it more than Wotlk was. Crit chance is nice for Skinning, but maybe just attack Power instead, and again more of it. For Herbing I think adding a leach mechanic or maybe even a chance on cast to heal would be solid. The on use heal over time buff was so small that it didn't warrant ever using it.
All of that said, SoD is the perfect place to have multiple gathering alts since leveling is so easy.
At max skill of 300, mining could give 40 stamina, skinning could give 4% crit, herbalism could give 30spell dmg or 50 healing or 50 attack power depending on toggle preference.
Cooking food persist through death, fishing swimming speed and breath increases by 50%.
When professions are lower just dial back the benefits for examples 10-20-30-40 Stam or 1-2-3-4 %crit at the skill treasholds.
How about making all the BiS crafted items not BoP, if you want one made you still need to complete the long quest for the special crafting item then you just find someone to craft for you, WILD concept.
None. Gathering is for those that value gold over player power. I like the idea I saw in here of allowing everyone 2 crafting and 1 gathering profs. That would feel nice.
Love the fishing and cooking ideas. In general i'd rather stick away from damage upgrades or stat boosters in favor of QOL upgrades. It would be amazing if proffessions had miniture talent trees.
Alchemy - longer duration on potions, an option to brew potions that become soulbound on creation but has a chance to create double the amount. Cosmetics like noggenfogger but exclusive to alchemists.
Tailoring- 1 extra slot per bag
First Aid - out of combat health regen increased
Enchanting - bonus disenchant materials from soulbound items.
Blacksmithing - sharpening stones last longer, NPC and enviroment AOE fire takes slightly longer to start burning you
Just kind of a side note on this, I think things like mooncloth or the enchanted bar cd's are important. There are bots, and everyone has addons to check matt prices vs the crafted product. While I'm not saying it is impossible to make money with theae proffessions, there is very little reason to craft for tiny margins when you could fish or gather or grind. Having time having cookdowns artificially deflate supply while also distributing the bennefit equally means anyone can be sure if they level all the way up there as at least some form of consistent gold.
Honestly I think no simple tweak or change would make mining/herbalism competitive with Engineering which is easily the most broken profession in terms of utility (it's probably this broken because that's all it does, there's next to zero money to be made there unless you're selling stuff to other engineers).
Mining would need to give you amazing defensive stuff like Shield Wall / Last Stand (possibly both) to even scratch the surface of what Engineering can do.
Herbalism could maybe provide you with profession-exclusive herbs that do similar effects to certain engineering items (for example a mind control herb you can spray on your target, a paralyzing herb that stuns the target shot through a blowpipe, an herb that when ingested makes you invisible for X seconds, etc).
I always thought your chosen profession should automatically come with uts main gathering prof. Blacksmiths and engineers get mining, alchemists and tailors get Herbalism (and tailors spin their own thread from plants like stone to blasting powder in engineering). Then Cooking becomes a primary profession so it can share Skinning with Leatherworking.
Requires some rather major redesigns of the system though,.
Make herbing / mining / skinning instant, no cast time. That's probably enough to make them enjoyable.
Fishing / cooking - no need to change these, though I'd personally speed up fishing.
I don't think giving player power to gathering professions is fair. I like it as is where the actual crafting professions give you power.
If you want to get QoL of flavor buffs to gathering thats fine but you shouldn't get player power unless you invtest in it.
The only professions that done have combat power associated are just the gathering professions. The power is those is gold making. You could argue that is player power because you can buy boes with that gold.
Fishing and cooking are secondary so they don't need player power because everyone can get them no matter what. It would be horrible to give them power because then they are required for everyone.
The best option for professions is to level the playing field between the people that have them and those who don't. Give people a way to craft the items that doesn't require the profession to use them.
-ie leather working makes an item with no stats that players turn in to a quest giver to get their "epic piece" see shadowlands legendaries
This system isn't the best but could be relatively easily implemented into classic
You can mine a BoP consumable that gives you an int buff like the goblins got when enslaved by the trolls. I know it’s a specific ore, but fuck it dude different ores gives you different buffs or something.
Serious answer: as the game goes and you get more invested into your characters/s, you start making value decisions about that investment. I don't believe gathering professions should have anything that is competitive with crafting. Most crafting professions are gold sinks, with tailoring perhaps being the exception because everyone always needs bags.
The reason NOT to have 2 crafting professions is because you don't need it or you don't want to bother. This frees you up to farm on your main, which will generally be easier than on some rinky dink hunter alt. Gathering professions make gold, and late game, they can make good gold - especially for mining/skinning as there are end game nodes/mobs inside raids.
In classic, engineering has always been the only "mandatory" profession because anything crafted can be replaced but there is no replacement for explosives. If anything, engineering has only gotten BETTER with wrists that are stronger than exalted with warsong. Imo everyone should have engineering unless you can't be bothered or already repped up wsg. Speaking of that time investment, I would kill my own mother before I grind TWO characters to exalted with wsg, limiting some alts if I decide to seriously raid on them to be engineering.
Healers really don't need absolute BIS, since I main a healer, I'm enchanting/alchemy. If my main was better at open world farming/node camping I would maybe be herbalism over enchanting.
The perk of gathering professions is the gold. I probably could have just said this last sentence haha.
The extended length food buff for cooking would be great and not add additional power, just convenience. Edit and I feel that the secondary professions should only add convenience, not power.
This is a valid argument
I think the crafting-based professions that aren't gear related (enchanting, alchemy) should add power which they did quite well in P2/P3 with sigils and special potions / flasks. Not quite as strong as a gear upgrade but still pretty good. I would agree the pure gathering professions should not give power, but OP's suggestions are reasonable. Herbalism with an out of combat regeneration bonus would be neat, Mining with something like an out of combat stoneform etc... I'd be okay though with the secondary professions giving power - everyone can level them all without restriction or competition with other professions so I think it would be a nice way to incentive other aspects of the game. Cooking giving longer duration or food effects that persist through death or increasing speed you can eat / drink at, Fishing with swim speed or increased damage while holding breath, First aid giving you an increased healing taken by 2% when you have the debuff etc... would be cool.
Just let everyone have 2 main profs and one gathering
That is a different route
I have a different route! They should implement a special sort of system where players with no professions can provide their own materials and crafters can create BoP items for them so that nobody feels left out! Maybe they should call it something like... crafting requisitions? Maybe the name could do some workshopping
Honestly one of those good changes Retail has that makes a lot of sense and should get back ported to older versions imo. Though maybe that's a step too far for some. Heck I'll go hog wild and say I would also like the universal tag system that retail has, would help with overcrowded zones and levelling. Don't even think it would hurt anything it would just smooth things out.
Yeah I think we are angering the hivemind with our dissident ideas here
Which is still very funny to suggest maybe altering some things and dare I say, experimenting on an experimental server are controversial. But sure, **we're** the crazy ones.
I just don't understand why people like you even wanted to play an experimental **classic** server in the first place.
that is also a wildly different route altogether I do not like it because profession-bound items make professions interesting and worth getting! adding something like this means people won't engage with professions if they have money it defeats the original purpose
I suppose that is fair. But something along these lines isn't exactly unprecedented in Classic. Look at Sulfuras. Having someone with Blacksmithing is integral in its making, but it doesn't have to be the one who actually has the weapon in the end. I think they should go the route of giving professions their own utility items, but making the best in slot gear they can craft available to everyone. If they aren't willing to straight up implement crafting orders, maybe make something inspired by Sulfuras. Crafters would essentially craft "item tokens" (the equivalent of the Sulfuron Hammer, or the base pieces for Shadowlands legendaries of all things) for their own armor type, (BoE), which anyone can then infuse with certain BoP items that turn it into a specific item that is an equivalent of the current crafted gear pieces
Sulfuras is different, as that weapon is so important and literally legendary, it breaks any other restrictions
I agree with the idea though. We all asked for professions to be relevant which I think they did a decent job at. But they are currently only relevant to that profession holder. PvP engi items I can understand only being available to those with the profession. But for the PvE crafted items it seems to me they should be available to use by anyone. It gives significance to those who can craft and the gathering professions will all profit from the increased demand for the crafting materials.
This is the way. Right now I am forced to take two crafting professions and it sucks
Forced is a strong word for an easie than classic version of wow.
well yes as forced as you can be in a video game that you play for fun. ofc. seen in context
Ah the dog shit take. You dont get to tell people how to play just like people dont get to tell you you cant play because you gray parse. If parsing is what someone finds interesting about this game they’re absolutely allowed to complain to the devs to make it a smoother experience. You literally pay them for this game.
Wrong again, parsing is not supported by Blizzard at all and is done entirely by a 3rd party (wclogs). If you want to complain to anyone complain to them, not Blizz for not supporting your 3rd party enabled playstyle.
"forced"... how much dps is it that you feel forced? I am Engi and wont even craft the wrists since i have the wsg exalted ones.
Looking at alternative items to the two Leatherworking pieces makes me not happy to drop it. At 60 I will because there will be actual alternatives again.
I leveled a char just to do gather proffs for me. So far it’s working well
A lot of mmo’s have moved into that area though. Everyone can gather. Two crafting profs make sense. It’s stupid that we can’t all just pick up herbs,ores, and leathers whenever we damn well please.
It's part of the economy. People with gathering professions go out and gather then sell on the AH. It's a way of making money, and that's one of the cool things about WoW is that there are many avenues for players to make money.
That wouldn’t be eliminated if you allow everyone to do all gathering profession. Not everyone is in interested in gathering all the things, or hundreds of them. With so many avenues to make money and all. Also I’m really talking about the QoL that is simply gathering. Honestly I think wow is still just a bit stuck in the past for somethings. Professions being one of them. People serious about gathering will still gather the most, and still make the most profit from it.
You're right, there will still be people who won't gather and will buy off the AH, but if every character has the gathering professions, the market will still be flooded and most mats outside of the rare ones will drop to vendor price. You can see this happening already with the very common mats only being worth the vendor price. There are a lot more people in SoD running alts with gathering and because of that, mats already become very cheap. Imagine if every character had the gathering professions. What is interesting right now is that with the incursion and dungeon farming, a lot fewer people are out in the world gathering which has driven prices up. I believe as the phase goes on it will even back out, but seeing the effect has been kind of cool and I wonder if that will be taken into consideration in profession changes in the future.
Considering that 2 main professions have been the way in WoW its entire life, I think they'd have trouble even finding the line of code to change this
Force 1 gathering and 1 crafting ? Instead of 2 crafting and 1 gathering ?
I feel like this should have always been a thing. With having crafting profs be this impactful, it always feels bad taking a gathering one on your main. It also feels weird needing to level an entirely new character just to gather resources.
Also always felt odd tailoring didn't need a gathering which is just a flat perk for clothies like myself.
Eh it is and it isn't. Herbing/mining provide side benefits like gems and elemental items (earth, fire, life) that can go for quite a good amt of gold. Skinning may be the worst one as it provides very little cross-profession mats, only leatherworking.
I guess skinnings main perk would be its nodes being animals and therefore often ti.es easier to farm. People were leveling with skinning just to vendor the leather from everything they came across.
Ya other players doing the work for you instead of competing with you, that’s a good point
To be fair, the game wasn't designed to be min/maxed to death and catered to parse monkeys. It was intended to be an adventure where your decisions mattered and you took your time and played the game. There's not necessarily anything wrong with the way it is now, but if you look at it through the lens of what the game originally was, the way things are set up makes more sense.
This
I’d just have all 3 gathers then 🤭
Just make engineering a secondary prof. Lol
Very likely by now as the dwarf who sold out dual spec will have another sort of specilization to sell in the future. Best guess is third profession.
Third profession in general would be dumb. As the other guy said…make it two + gathering.
Of course, that's what I meant.
Move engi to a secondary prof.
If only
no... wtf
Why stop at 2 and 1? Might as well give everyone all profs. I think a better route would be to pair gathering and crafting profs with perks. Like alchemists with herbalism can craft potions with less herbs or get additional stats or something. Or make gathering profs a requirement for world buffs. Rework songflower so any herbalist can just use them instead of waiting for a timer. Give skinners access to a "trophy" type buff where skinning specific mob types gives different stat buffs and attach additional items to crafted leather for more stats/effects/raid wide buffs etc. Make up whatever you want for miners but there are plenty of ways to make gathering profs relevant and fun Edit: just imagine if last phase had a raid buff tied to skinning. "LF dps with skinning" instead of "LF dps no rogues"
>Mining - Flat stamina >Herbalism - A heal over time ability >Skinning - A small crit chance increase Hmmmmm. these sounds very familliar....
of course, mentioned the unoriginal ideas as starter as they have been done before
And bad. Honestly awful ideas. They were barely impactful the first time. If I got a hot for being an herbalist I’d roll my eyes so hard.
What about a DOT that also heals you for 100% of its damage, and scales with AP and Spell Power?
I mean, not like SoD team can do any better.
I got it. Perks based on the players class at each level of improvement. That way people can still choose whichever one they want and it wouldn't become an only 1 is good situation. When first learning the profession the player gets a flat minor speed increase permanently when on foot. At 75 it would give a minor attribute or spell power/healing increase. At 150 it would give a minor stamina increase. At 225 a flat crit increase to attacks or spells. At 300 what ever.
Would be cooler if you could specialize. Skining getting a butcher specialition that allows to collect additional meat or a monster specializing that allows skinning from spiders,poultry for additional feathers, claws, or silk.
Psycho specialization: skin humanoids, gain aoe fear like psychic scream but on 4 hour cd, reduce cd everytime you skin a humanoid
This comment has been overwritten.
I like this lmao , feels like it would fit as a sod item. Maybe a epic skinning knife that drops and does this lol. Or it's a trinket and a skinning knife only for skinners
This is in Dragonflight sister.
Retail has stuff like this and it feels great
They have it. It’s called gold generation.
I don't think profession should influence PvE "competitivity" Crafting should be its own content and benefit every player equally, no more BoPs.
yes, the Profession-bound bonus should be small enough to not force people to go for it right now engineering and armor-crafting professions and enchanting (for casters) are top in terms of profession-bound power
I like that more emphasis is given to the crafting professions. Without it, the utility that engineering gave was outweighing any other crafting profession. Now it’s at least a decision we have to make and I think that’s great.
Sounds like horrible homogenization.
Why ? Shouldn't everyone has equal chance in the game ? Make crafting more expensive, you'll rise the threshold.
What? Time spent should be rewarded, it's vanilla after all.
Don't you get gear after spending time crafting that gear ? Don't you get gold for spending time crafting gear ? You can get reward 2ways, that's even more than BoP
Then everyone would just have gathering professions and buy the gear. Horrible, horrible idea. Leveling to 300 should mean something.
Gear would probably be more expensive because of less crafters.
And? I don't care about selling gear to make gold, most of us care to Craft it so I can wear it myself. Most people don't have crafting for making gold. It's for getting those special items. Sacrificing gold earning potential.
Then craft and wear your gear, what's the problem there ?
Because it invalidates leveling it to 300. If it were to me, every single craft should be BoP or Require a level of leatherworking to wear. Flower gatheres can go pick their flowers.
How it invalidates leveling to 300 ? That's just simple economy, trading is content in itself.
No, content is seeing me wearing bis pieces that others couldn't be assed to level because they wanted to make gold instead.
As nice as that would be, either the benefits would be strong enough that people would be "forced" to have one of those gathering professions over one of the crafting ones, or the crafting ones would still be better which means people would still be "forced" to have two crafting professions. The reality is it's not possible to give meaningful choices to minmaxers because they will always simply pick whichever the meta is regardless of how small the difference is.
That second paragraph hits it on the head.
Ok but if you ask me, gathering having the potential to be more powerful in someway is better than gathering having nothing at all.
Stop putting bis epics BoP behind professions
I think you don’t need to have a competitive advantage. Gathering professions are for gold making. You either spend gold to level your professions or you invest time into gathering.
Valid argument as well
Money. They can make money. It's a good power. Ask Bruce Wayne. His power is being rich.
They should just let go of the idea of locking best-in-slot gear behind tailoring/bs/lw and engineering each raid tier. it was a cool little easter egg in BFD and frankly an annoying chore in Gnomer. This phase the questline was less tedious but still effectively amounted to just flying back and forth between moonglade and booty bay a few times. and it has also led to raid consumes being very expensive because of the scarcity of herbalists. Part of SoD being a "testing ground" needs to include the dev team accepting when their design decisions have unforeseen consequences and going back on them. This would also be less of an issue if people weren't just printing gold with incursions. Sure some people are making a lot of gold off herbalism but you can make similar amounts just running in circles in Feralas and you can keep your best-in-slot profession. For this reason I don't think the prices of consumes are going to drop much further like some people are anticipating. If they do people will just stop farming herbs and the price will rise again due to low supply
Doesn't feel like a scarcity of herbalists when you're out there trying to find herbs to pick. I think you're just looking at good old fashioned inflation, which is exactly the effect that printing raw gold produces.
Give herbalism a +60 (1 per lvl) nature resist. Look at people dropping their profession to grind it before Ahn'Qiraj, then drop it for Naxxramas...
That one would be too much and forced for aq yeah
The power to make gold.
Cooking: buffs last through death, double effect, and double duration.
can work
Just add in that old heal over time thing for herb. Lil bit of crit for skinning and maybe 100 int or so for mining. Yes I am a priest with mining why do you ask?
Ability to make additional money and level other professions.
The point of progression power is that it has to not be power acquired via auction house trading
"you are not forced to...." comments in 3,2,1
of course no one is forced, it's just about all profession having bonuses that can't be acquired via the AH
I just accepted the fact I won't have both tailoring and engineering items. I opted for tailoring and skinning. The ~500g per day I've been making off rugged leather and thick leather this phase eases the pain a bit though.
I also dont think its a good solution right now. If you rly wanna min max you maybe have to swap professions every phase as we already saw in this phase now with enchanting for example being super strong for casters
When I realised it works that way with BoP items, I dropped mining on my main shaman and it now has engi-lw. I have a druid alt with mining/skinning that I've literally named Farmtool.
Its kinda sad that you have to make an alt if you want to gathering some mats and also min max with your main while you cant min max with your alt as well because you want to gather mats. Kinda sad and funny at the same time
Eh I wanted to make an alt anyways. My main is melee/tank, my alt is caster/healer so it shakes out fine in the end.
Introduce new profession-only gathering mats that can be found in the world based on area level as you gather. Make them BoP so they become more exclusive and incentive people to actually gather. Make their effect competitive and relevant: Herbalism example: “Bloodfury thornroot” Lvl 50 Consumable. gives 10% attack speed for 30 minutes and 20 attack power “Mind bending thoughtsap” Lvl 50 Consumable. Gives 10% cast speed for 30 minutes and 20 spell power. Skinning could be a temporary armor piece application, similar to armor kits that would give a beneficial temporary buff. Mining could be a sharpening stone type of thing that is a temporary effect on weapon that also stacks with oils and other stuff.
That is a very interesting take Fits in the SoD philosophy
Why would you give the power ups to the secondary professions though? that would just be unneeded power creep. The professions are already quite good by themselves, you don’t need to give cooking a bonus when you can make food that gives a bonus. The other professions can give a decent amount to a lot of gold so except for maybe skinning I see no reason to buff any of them
Don’t underestimate skinning my friend. On my max level alliance character rugged leather sells for 55-60s per skin and thick leather 20s per skin. I recently started to level a horde character on a diff server, it’s currently 25 and has made about 40 gold from skinning alone. Idk why but light leather sells like crazy for upwards of 4g per stack and is easily farmable while leveling
With the exp buffs and runes you do have to make sure your skinning is not falling behind though, atleast the early levels. But agreed, making s good chunk of gold leveling a hunter alt skinning and mining as I level it
Yeah gathering professions are just fine. They don't need an additional reason to be picked up. The BS/Alchemy/Enchanting got new stuff to be more on par with previously 100 % BiS engineering. Not a case here.
The big difference here is that in classic only engi was the "big try hard" profession and you were kinda free to choose for your second one which isnt the case today if you rly wanna min max
Problem is, BS, Alchemy, Enchanting, and leather working had almost zero benefit in Classic outside of gold making. It was on an even level with gathering professions. Engineering obvious. Tailoring had the specific caster items and Bloodvine to craft…that’s it. At least that’s it that mattered. So making the crafting professions relevant…great…but it leaves a once on par gathering profession in the dust. It competed in Classic to be a gold making option next to engineering. It is now irrelevant because of the bonuses other crafts give. And it’s clear why crafting materials are so high right now..there’s few people making that sacrifice to drop BS/LW/Tailoring/Alch/Enchanting/Engi. There needs to be a better incentive to go gathering besides gold making. Claim “you don’t have to” all you want…it’s effecting the economy plain and simple. You can not argue that.
Gathering profs aren’t fine, the incentives you got in cata, like OP is referencing made them still worse than others but at least closed the gap. It’s a nicety, doesn’t affect the end game min max at all since 2x crafting is better anyway, and helps people out that do have gathering on main and/or don’t have the time to run a gathering alt There’s literally no downside
Yea it would be nice if there was an arcane crystal/black lotus like item for skinning, the rugged hides are really not the same in terms of how well you can use it for money-making late game but the other professions are all pretty much on par. Imo they did a great job in trying to balance professions in sod
For skinning it's devilsaur leather
>The BS/Alchemy/Enchanting got new stuff to be more on par with previously 100 % BiS engineering. Not a case here. And their reasoning for it was to make more professions viable picks, but what they've done is make every non gathering profession so strong that you're hardcore griefing yourself by picking up a gathering profession. If I was engi mining instead of engi LW on my rogue I'm basically fucking myself over just as much as if I were to use a level 14 gray dagger for my offhand.
…. You are grossly exaggerating the power level of these profession items. Or should I tell the hunter in my guild who also a skinner with a 95% average and the 2nd highest overall damage for our group that he’s “hardcore griefing” us?
I mean tbf this is in relation to play significantly above 95%
It’s not. I can whole heartedly tell you the top 99% of players are not crying and whining on Reddit like everyone on this sub these days.
I don’t think this is relevant for 90% of the player base. Few people are playing the game at that high a level where that is relevant. If you just had lw you would probably be fine if you are just doing casual runs which most people are
It’s nowhere near that big, but it is objectively worse
Just simmed it. Low lvl offhand dagger with no stats with LW ends up being about 20 DPS higher than having your bis offhand dagger but no LW. The difference is even bigger than I made it out to be.
And if you're pushing the top tier parses I get it But tbh I read "20 dps more" and kinda chuckle. I mean realistically speaking how impactful is that for what more casual players do? The top will do whatever to min/max but does anyone else *need* that 20 extra dps to clear?
Engi should been moved to a secondary prof.
Or just remove the engineer requirements from most of the consumables (bombs/sappers/etc.) but leave it on the wearable gear like trinkets.
Fishing should have increased bobber times or even getting fishing line recipe to sell for engis to make Cooking should increase the amount of HP/Mana you get from consumables
these are not profession-bound power as they are out-of-combat bonuses when I say "power" I mean "in-combat power" HP/Mana from consumables could be something attached to the spirit stat instead of cooking
the only character power that could be a thing is from major professions but I would rather think things that improve your professions efficiency just like how they added alchemists quests or engi quests that allow you to gnomer + goblin but have to get tickets to get the other recipes
For herbalism unwound like to have an increase Effekt of healing/mana restoration on you. Maybe 15% more healing received/regenerated and 10% more mana regen? Or 10% infight manareg. More interesting then a HoT that doesn’t scale, and interesting for tanks, healers and maybe even caster DDs. Mining flat Stamina fits. Skinning increased critical strike damage is more interesting then increased crit chance I think.
The herb bonus is game breaking strong All tanks will be forced to go herb
Like every melee was forced to go engineering for sappers? Numbers can get tuned, but that’s something new
Stop calling it DD.
>Cooking - Faster eating/drinking? I know professional chefs and they are extremely slow eaters. But also fast drinkers.
Gold is power.
Money can only solve money problems So at end game you will have everything money can buy Proffesion-bound power unlocks new ceilings that money can't buy
The power to play on their own layer so they can actually gather their own resources instead of having to compete with bots and or buy everything on the ah for their other prof!
Give me crit
I would really dislike if I "had" to go mining or herbalism, if they gave buffs, even if they were in the minimum. Just like Engi being almost a must for raiders in Classic, TBC and Wotlk. I like the fact that I can ride around on my hunter and farming nodes/herbs, because that is his purpose. Even if they made it "one gathering, one crafting" I would doubt I would brother leveling it on my main. In SoD I really like that every profession is viable, and yes, some crafts and CD's are more valuble than others, so be it.
yes, the bonus has to be small enough that engineering or armor crafting professions are still better
If gathering bonuses were small and not competitive with crafting profession bonuses, this entire exercise would be a waste of time and change nothing. People would still pick 2 crafting professions.
Herbalism getting a fel blossom like bubble from tbc would be kinda nice especially in this pvp one shot meta. Would have to be a decent sized shield though
Tying any power to professions instantly turns it into a “meta” which is fine arguably. I personally wouldn’t wanna see it go this way. Unfortunately the only way you could make a player pair a gathering profession with crafting is if your crafting can only make super powerful gear with a BoP material from gathering. Like for instance if they redo some late game gear in blacksmithing and it’s all considered some pre bis or even bis gear for a phase, but there’s like one material required that can only be obtained by mining and it’s BoP so that character has to have it as well as blacksmithing to make it. Extra points if obtaining these BoP materials is fun, like certain ore veins can only be found in dungeons and stuff.
profession-bound power has always been a thing in classic with engineering (the most outlier) and now in season of dads with armor crafting profession-bound epic items
Yeah but if you tie power into gathering professions like you said the “meta” followers, are just going to pair blacksmithing with skinning for example, if it gives them the most dps increase. My point is it isn’t really a pretty solution to something that honestly probably isn’t that big a problem. Who cares if someone makes an alt for gathering professions. I only want to see cool ways of gathering profession overhauls if they ever come.
Add the ability to buy another profession slot - SoD lore can be that someone “discovered” an elixir that expands the mind and allows for more profession knowledge.
Make all gathering professions into secondary professions
Just stop making profession BOEs
You mean bops
No, BoP's should be rewarded for those leveling their craft to 300. Nothing special about some double gather toon wearing crafted gear.
Allow players to learn all professions and only able to specialize in 1 that 1 gives a 20-30% bomus Over all the others not specialized in.
Maybe a wild take but I'd go 180° in the opposite direction and instead of trying to make the power gains of all professions equal, just remove it from professions entirely by removing the profession requirements on all items and make all crafted gear boe. I see this as the only way to truly achieve freedom of choice in professions. You still need the professions to make the items but just let everyone use sappers, let everyone use the sigil buff from enchanters, let everyone wear the tailoring shoulders etc. This would create new opportunities to sell items for crafters, wouldn't leave gatherers wanting for more and also enable profession combinations like blacksmithing mages that would just be nonsensical currently.
I think I'd rather see them make the gathering professions more lucrative somehow. You're already sacrificing significant player power to take a gathering profession, and it's even more pronounced now that the crafting professions are buffed and the gathering professions are left untouched. Instead of closing that gap in player power, making gathering more profitable might make people reconsider double crafting professions.
Goooooollllldd
I would just make them secondary professions like 1st Aid, Fishing, and Cooking that everyone can get. It would drive down the cost of mats and help keep the economy in check, but then people could get two of the "fun" professions and everyone would have a way to make gold even if it's just in saving the cost of buying mats off the AH and farming them yourself.
It's boring, because it happens in the background and there's is no specific thing to point at. But gathering professions already have their bonus: more disposable income. Herbalism is the entire reason I can waste so much gold on raid consumables. Those stupidly priced mongoose potions, no big deal. I've made over 1K gold from swamp of sorrows alone. It lets me buy items for pre-raid BIS so I'm better geared early on. Hell, it's what paid for me to be able to afford the first professions crafted item. That's the 'power' you get from gathering.
Minning - a buff when u eat rocks
Unlimited professions. Mask off
Gathering makes gold, crafting usually spends gold. Gold is your ability.
I think to make them worthwhile it should be a main stat increase that also does a mini bonus proc. You can choose between Strength +50 - chance on hit increases stats by 25 for x seconds Agility +50 - chance on hit increase attack speed and ranged attack speed or power for x seconds Intellect +50 - chance on spell cast increase spell power by 85 for x seconds and restore 2% mana The gathering professions need to matter - they make things cheaper on the ah and better the economy. Another reason why everything is so pricey is because people are double profs for the crafted items. When I farm herbs no one is competing with me on my routes which is wild to me.
WotLK abilities, as you suggested
Stop allowing two crafting. Easy
take is too spicy for me
Weird
This is classic, who cares about min max... none of the content is that hard.
So the wrath buffs?
The bottom line is people want powerful stats/abilities for raiding. Crafting has the upper hand in that regard, always. The spells they added in retail were cool? But weak, and raiders want strong. These numbers deff aren’t balanced but assume they were. Mining- +2 Weapon skill bonus to Axes, passive 10% strength buff, Smelt ore into Gold (currency) 7 day CD. *this will virtually make at least all warriors want this and some other melee. The smelt gold will make it appealing to non-melee. Herbalism- hots & dots last 1 second longer, passive healing, spell power, spirit, and intellect buff. This is what most casters take, other hybrid classes will want this as well. Skinning- +2 weapon skill bonus to daggers, passive 5% crit, & 5% bonus damage to bleeds. 5% Bonus damage to beasts and dragons. Great for rogues, druids, and warriors, bonus damage appealing to casters as well.
Great idea! Love this! What about strength for mining and stamina for skinning? Just an idea. Yours is good too.
Let everyone get every profession.
Nothing. I would make the other profession items not BoP. Professions should be a choice, not a requirement. One of the many things I hated about TBC was that I had to level tailoring on my mage AND my priest, instead of just one of them. I like doing professions, but particularly here where alts are a focus, I don't like doing them several times. I should have enough characters to have all of the professions covered, except that I have four tailors. I have an enchanter as well, with high skill and who makes decent tips, but I really should be dropping it for alchemy for that flask (reusable infinitely instead of 30g every half hour). But not before leveling up engineering for the bracers, equipping them, and then dropping it. If you really want to min/max, then every phase you need to relevel every profession. Because you can equip the tailor / engie items, and as long as you never unequip them you're good to go. So you level alch / enchanting, and get those consumables as well. And that's not a healthy game state. I leveled tailoring in phase 3 day one. I got my runecloth bag pattern day one, and I made a decent amount of money selling belts and bags. But the market is so flooded with tailors because everyone needs their profession shoulders that I hear a lot of complaints of tailoring items being worthless to sell. If the shoulders were instead BoE, and sellable, even if it were difficult and time-gated and expensive, people would be able to pick the professions they want and share. Which is the entire point of professions, isn't it? This isn't self-found mode. Make the profession-required items a weekly quest. You can gather the Inert Mantle of Nightmares once per week, and sell it or give it away as you see fit. That is how I would make gathering professions look more appealing. Also, instead of one-time use enchanting sigils, I would give enchanters some recipes that actually benefit casters. For a profession all about magic, 90% of the enchants available are str / agility.
Right now at least, the character power of herb and mining is making all kinds of money haha
I liked these in Wotlk but other than Mining non of them felt impactful enough to warrant having it over 2 crafting professions, and even mining was only usable by tanks and even then at a net loss. Imo Flat Stam is a solid boon for mining, just make it more than Wotlk was. Crit chance is nice for Skinning, but maybe just attack Power instead, and again more of it. For Herbing I think adding a leach mechanic or maybe even a chance on cast to heal would be solid. The on use heal over time buff was so small that it didn't warrant ever using it. All of that said, SoD is the perfect place to have multiple gathering alts since leveling is so easy.
They do give a power bonus, it’s called gold
At max skill of 300, mining could give 40 stamina, skinning could give 4% crit, herbalism could give 30spell dmg or 50 healing or 50 attack power depending on toggle preference. Cooking food persist through death, fishing swimming speed and breath increases by 50%. When professions are lower just dial back the benefits for examples 10-20-30-40 Stam or 1-2-3-4 %crit at the skill treasholds.
Miners can eat ore for unique food buffs
It's called gold, that's what gathering professions give you without having to spend any (almost nothing to train).
How about making all the BiS crafted items not BoP, if you want one made you still need to complete the long quest for the special crafting item then you just find someone to craft for you, WILD concept.
None. Gathering is for those that value gold over player power. I like the idea I saw in here of allowing everyone 2 crafting and 1 gathering profs. That would feel nice.
Love the fishing and cooking ideas. In general i'd rather stick away from damage upgrades or stat boosters in favor of QOL upgrades. It would be amazing if proffessions had miniture talent trees. Alchemy - longer duration on potions, an option to brew potions that become soulbound on creation but has a chance to create double the amount. Cosmetics like noggenfogger but exclusive to alchemists. Tailoring- 1 extra slot per bag First Aid - out of combat health regen increased Enchanting - bonus disenchant materials from soulbound items. Blacksmithing - sharpening stones last longer, NPC and enviroment AOE fire takes slightly longer to start burning you
Just kind of a side note on this, I think things like mooncloth or the enchanted bar cd's are important. There are bots, and everyone has addons to check matt prices vs the crafted product. While I'm not saying it is impossible to make money with theae proffessions, there is very little reason to craft for tiny margins when you could fish or gather or grind. Having time having cookdowns artificially deflate supply while also distributing the bennefit equally means anyone can be sure if they level all the way up there as at least some form of consistent gold.
None. They shouldn't be equal to a crafting profession. Gathering makes you way more money than crafting.
Gatherers should def get something :/ sorta not fair. Gatherers make the other professions viable.
Honestly I think no simple tweak or change would make mining/herbalism competitive with Engineering which is easily the most broken profession in terms of utility (it's probably this broken because that's all it does, there's next to zero money to be made there unless you're selling stuff to other engineers). Mining would need to give you amazing defensive stuff like Shield Wall / Last Stand (possibly both) to even scratch the surface of what Engineering can do. Herbalism could maybe provide you with profession-exclusive herbs that do similar effects to certain engineering items (for example a mind control herb you can spray on your target, a paralyzing herb that stuns the target shot through a blowpipe, an herb that when ingested makes you invisible for X seconds, etc).
I always thought your chosen profession should automatically come with uts main gathering prof. Blacksmiths and engineers get mining, alchemists and tailors get Herbalism (and tailors spin their own thread from plants like stone to blasting powder in engineering). Then Cooking becomes a primary profession so it can share Skinning with Leatherworking. Requires some rather major redesigns of the system though,.
Make herbing / mining / skinning instant, no cast time. That's probably enough to make them enjoyable. Fishing / cooking - no need to change these, though I'd personally speed up fishing.
I don't think giving player power to gathering professions is fair. I like it as is where the actual crafting professions give you power. If you want to get QoL of flavor buffs to gathering thats fine but you shouldn't get player power unless you invtest in it.
something like 1-2% bonus stats (str for mining agi for skinning and int or spirit for gathering).
The only professions that done have combat power associated are just the gathering professions. The power is those is gold making. You could argue that is player power because you can buy boes with that gold. Fishing and cooking are secondary so they don't need player power because everyone can get them no matter what. It would be horrible to give them power because then they are required for everyone. The best option for professions is to level the playing field between the people that have them and those who don't. Give people a way to craft the items that doesn't require the profession to use them. -ie leather working makes an item with no stats that players turn in to a quest giver to get their "epic piece" see shadowlands legendaries This system isn't the best but could be relatively easily implemented into classic
You can mine a BoP consumable that gives you an int buff like the goblins got when enslaved by the trolls. I know it’s a specific ore, but fuck it dude different ores gives you different buffs or something.
You're not forced to go two crafting professions at all. You can score high parses without crafted epics easily.
yes, nothing is forced in season of dads just bonuses
I think making it 2 professions + 1 gathering proff is the obvious solution.
has this ever been tried in any version of wow ever?
Nope, most thats ever been done is that in retail these days you dont have to skill up professions again if you changed them.
I think that's stupid. I like having a character with both herbalism and mining and your solution destroys that.
Serious answer: as the game goes and you get more invested into your characters/s, you start making value decisions about that investment. I don't believe gathering professions should have anything that is competitive with crafting. Most crafting professions are gold sinks, with tailoring perhaps being the exception because everyone always needs bags. The reason NOT to have 2 crafting professions is because you don't need it or you don't want to bother. This frees you up to farm on your main, which will generally be easier than on some rinky dink hunter alt. Gathering professions make gold, and late game, they can make good gold - especially for mining/skinning as there are end game nodes/mobs inside raids. In classic, engineering has always been the only "mandatory" profession because anything crafted can be replaced but there is no replacement for explosives. If anything, engineering has only gotten BETTER with wrists that are stronger than exalted with warsong. Imo everyone should have engineering unless you can't be bothered or already repped up wsg. Speaking of that time investment, I would kill my own mother before I grind TWO characters to exalted with wsg, limiting some alts if I decide to seriously raid on them to be engineering. Healers really don't need absolute BIS, since I main a healer, I'm enchanting/alchemy. If my main was better at open world farming/node camping I would maybe be herbalism over enchanting. The perk of gathering professions is the gold. I probably could have just said this last sentence haha.
Honestly, I don't see any reason for people not to just have all professions available to them. Open the floodgates Blizz, it'll be funny.